My recent padlock cutting requirement has led me to believe I need to
acquire something a little bigger and faster at cutting through metal.

Which is a more useful tool all around? An electric angle grinder or a 4'
long bolt cutter?

P.S. Now that I have gone from Basic to Premium cable, I've been watching
all the variations of storage locker auction shows that are on (to my wife's
great consternation - "We're NOT going to storage auctions!"). I see just
about an equal amount of the above tools to pop the lock. Also learned that
it's very useful to use Visegrips to lock the hasp to the shackle before
cutting to keep the blade from jumping and shattering.

Another thing I learned is that most padlocks are about as resistant to an
angle grinder as balsa wood to a file. One lock that had a unique shackle
shroud took about 5 seconds longer to cut through, but it the end it all
clattered to the floor. Also learned not to touch anything recently cut by
a large blade on a grinder with a coffee-can sized motor. Dat sucker's hot.
(And yet people seemed so transfixed by how fast the lock was cut they try
to pick up the pieces anyway).

One thing that bothers me about bolt cutters is that I seem to recall from
childhood that some jurisdictions classify them as burglar tools allowed
only in the possession of locksmiths, etc. Anyone ever hear that?

--
Bobby G.

Robert Green wrote the following:
My recent padlock cutting requirement has led me to believe I need to
acquire something a little bigger and faster at cutting through metal.

Which is a more useful tool all around? An electric angle grinder or a 4'
long bolt cutter?

P.S. Now that I have gone from Basic to Premium cable, I've been watching
all the variations of storage locker auction shows that are on (to my wife's
great consternation - "We're NOT going to storage auctions!"). I see just
about an equal amount of the above tools to pop the lock. Also learned that
it's very useful to use Visegrips to lock the hasp to the shackle before
cutting to keep the blade from jumping and shattering.

Another thing I learned is that most padlocks are about as resistant to an
angle grinder as balsa wood to a file. One lock that had a unique shackle
shroud took about 5 seconds longer to cut through, but it the end it all
clattered to the floor. Also learned not to touch anything recently cut by
a large blade on a grinder with a coffee-can sized motor. Dat sucker's hot.
(And yet people seemed so transfixed by how fast the lock was cut they try
to pick up the pieces anyway).

One thing that bothers me about bolt cutters is that I seem to recall from
childhood that some jurisdictions classify them as burglar tools allowed
only in the possession of locksmiths, etc. Anyone ever hear that?

--
Bobby G.



Anything is classified as a burglar tool if it is used in a burglary.
Use a butter knife to break into a house, it becomes a burglary tool.


--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
My recent padlock cutting requirement has led me to believe I need to
acquire something a little bigger and faster at cutting through metal.

Which is a more useful tool all around? An electric angle grinder or a 4'
long bolt cutter?

P.S. Now that I have gone from Basic to Premium cable, I've been watching
all the variations of storage locker auction shows that are on (to my
wife's
great consternation - "We're NOT going to storage auctions!"). I see just
about an equal amount of the above tools to pop the lock. Also learned
that
it's very useful to use Visegrips to lock the hasp to the shackle before
cutting to keep the blade from jumping and shattering.

Another thing I learned is that most padlocks are about as resistant to an
angle grinder as balsa wood to a file. One lock that had a unique shackle
shroud took about 5 seconds longer to cut through, but it the end it all
clattered to the floor. Also learned not to touch anything recently cut
by
a large blade on a grinder with a coffee-can sized motor. Dat sucker's
hot.
(And yet people seemed so transfixed by how fast the lock was cut they try
to pick up the pieces anyway).

One thing that bothers me about bolt cutters is that I seem to recall from
childhood that some jurisdictions classify them as burglar tools allowed
only in the possession of locksmiths, etc. Anyone ever hear that?

--
Bobby G.

Get a good grinder at the pawn shop for $25. You can use it for other
things. A bolt cutter is a bolt cutter.

"Burglary tools" are considered in the context they were found in. If a guy
is inside a house that isn't his, and has lock picks, or other tools, that
can be construed as burglary tools. Same thing with finding them in a car
if the person has a history of burglary. But, without probable cause, there
is no reason to believe they were used in a crime. Yet, one can be
arrested, charged, and pay a lot for an attorney before it's all sorted out.

I carry lock picks, slim jims, plus an assortment of security defeating
devices that I use to evaluate the security levels of real estate
properties. So long as you are not out there skulking around in the night
time, there is little to connect you to any criminal activity.

It's just up to the mentality of the LEO you encounter.

Steve

"willshak" wrote in message

stuff snipped

One thing that bothers me about bolt cutters is that I seem to recall
from
childhood that some jurisdictions classify them as burglar tools allowed
only in the possession of locksmiths, etc. Anyone ever hear that?

Anything is classified as a burglar tool if it is used in a burglary.
Use a butter knife to break into a house, it becomes a burglary tool.

Sorry, I wasn't specific enough. My recollection is that bolt cutters (and
lock picking tools) were illegal to possess in some jurisdictions
*regardless* of whether they had been used in a burglary unless owned by a
licensed locksmith. The mere possession of such items was enough to be
charged. Anyway, that's what I recall, but that was a long, long time ago
when the small pair of bolt-cutters I own first fell off the passing truck.
(-: This was NYC, home of the Sullivan law, armored cable in residences
rule and lots of other laws peculiar to very large cities.

--
Bobby G.

On Dec 14, 4:36*pm, "Robert Green" wrote:
My recent padlock cutting requirement has led me to believe I need to
acquire something a little bigger and faster at cutting through metal.

Which is a more useful tool all around? *An electric angle grinder or a 4'
long bolt cutter?

P.S. *Now that I have gone from Basic to Premium cable, I've been watching
all the variations of storage locker auction shows that are on (to my wife's
great consternation - "We're NOT going to storage auctions!"). *I see just
about an equal amount of the above tools to pop the lock. *Also learned that
it's very useful to use Visegrips to lock the hasp to the shackle before
cutting to keep the blade from jumping and shattering.

Another thing I learned is that most padlocks are about as resistant to an
angle grinder as balsa wood to a file. *One lock that had a unique shackle
shroud took about 5 seconds longer to cut through, but it the end it all
clattered to the floor. *Also learned not to touch anything recently cut by
a large blade on a grinder with a coffee-can sized motor. *Dat sucker's hot.
(And yet people seemed so transfixed by how fast the lock was cut they try
to pick up the pieces anyway).

One thing that bothers me about bolt cutters is that I seem to recall from
childhood that some jurisdictions classify them as burglar tools allowed
only in the possession of locksmiths, etc. *Anyone ever hear that?

--
Bobby G.

Get the angle grinder. Used for many other jobs. A bolt cutter is
pretty much a one purpose tool and you will probably not use but a few
times in your entire life...unless you take up burglary.

Harry K

On Dec 14, 4:36*pm, "Robert Green" wrote:
My recent padlock cutting requirement has led me to believe I need to
acquire something a little bigger and faster at cutting through metal.

Which is a more useful tool all around? *An electric angle grinder or a 4'
long bolt cutter?

P.S. *Now that I have gone from Basic to Premium cable, I've been watching
all the variations of storage locker auction shows that are on (to my wife's
great consternation - "We're NOT going to storage auctions!"). *I see just
about an equal amount of the above tools to pop the lock. *Also learned that
it's very useful to use Visegrips to lock the hasp to the shackle before
cutting to keep the blade from jumping and shattering.

Another thing I learned is that most padlocks are about as resistant to an
angle grinder as balsa wood to a file. *One lock that had a unique shackle
shroud took about 5 seconds longer to cut through, but it the end it all
clattered to the floor. *Also learned not to touch anything recently cut by
a large blade on a grinder with a coffee-can sized motor. *Dat sucker's hot.
(And yet people seemed so transfixed by how fast the lock was cut they try
to pick up the pieces anyway).

One thing that bothers me about bolt cutters is that I seem to recall from
childhood that some jurisdictions classify them as burglar tools allowed
only in the possession of locksmiths, etc. *Anyone ever hear that?

--
Bobby G.

I have two bolt cutters (18" & 24") and two 4.5" grinders.

I've used the bolt cutters twice in the last 5 years...... I use the
grinders every month.

Don't look or behave like a burglar and you've got nothing to worry
about.

cheers
Bob

"Robert Green" wrote:

Which is a more useful tool all around? An electric angle grinder or a 4'
long bolt cutter?

Clearly the angle grinder. I've used mine for all sorts of metal work, bed
frames, etc.

P.S. Now that I have gone from Basic to Premium cable, I've been watching
all the variations of storage locker auction shows that are on (to my wife's
great consternation - "We're NOT going to storage auctions!").

I agree with your wife. My understanding is those shows seed the storage units.
If there was anything of value in there, it would only be because someone forgot
about it.

"Harry K" wrote in message
news:fd5b322e-428f-44be-a756-

stuff snipped

Get the angle grinder. Used for many other jobs. A bolt cutter is
pretty much a one purpose tool and you will probably not use but a few
times in your entire life...unless you take up burglary.

I was hoping that people were going to chime in with a million and one uses
for a 4' bolt cutter. I use the 18" to cut heavy gauge Romex because of the
leverage, but I Dremel most things I'd be tempted to use the bolt cutters
for. Still, they're cool to watch in action . . .

--
Bobby G.

"DD_BobK" wrote in message
news:f7d1bd46-2290-4319-885f-

stuff snipped

I have two bolt cutters (18" & 24") and two 4.5" grinders.

I've used the bolt cutters twice in the last 5 years...... I use the
grinders every month.

Don't look or behave like a burglar and you've got nothing to worry
about.

I guess I knew the answer before asking. The angle grinder. I need to saw
the head off one of those obscenely huge duplicate car keys. An angle
grinder would make short work of it. Probably could build a little sliding
jig for the Dremel and do it that way. The reality is there's not much I'd
do that the Dremel can't do with a little effort. Still, it's Christmas and
I have to do my part to stimulate the economy . . .

--
Bobby G.

"Robert Neville" wrote in message
...

stuff snipped

P.S. Now that I have gone from Basic to Premium cable, I've been
watching
all the variations of storage locker auction shows that are on (to my
wife's
great consternation - "We're NOT going to storage auctions!").

I agree with your wife. My understanding is those shows seed the storage
units.
If there was anything of value in there, it would only be because someone
forgot
about it.

Even if they don't seed them, there's little to prevent the owner of the
storage units from clipping the lock off the abandoned units before the
auction, rummaging for anything good and relocking it with a new lock. Who
would know? I actually believe a fair amount do get abandoned for various
reasons like death, illness, bankruptcy and forgetfulness. One of these days
they are going to find an active crime scene and maybe a body part or two.

I had a friend whose company specialized in cleanups of dwellings where the
owner/renter had died or vanished. They found LOTS of very interesting and
valuable stuff. Her husband always came in and pulled all the sink traps
because they often contained diamond rings and earrings he'd resell.
Eventually, though, all the stuff they salvaged ended up crowding them out
of their house. They had a room full of un-opened toys that drove their
poor kid neurotic knowing Daddy had a special toy room full of toys he could
never play with. Now they're splitting it in a bad market due to divorce.

--
Bobby G.

"Steve B" wrote in message
...

stuff snipped

One thing that bothers me about bolt cutters is that I seem to recall
from
childhood that some jurisdictions classify them as burglar tools allowed
only in the possession of locksmiths, etc. Anyone ever hear that?

"Burglary tools" are considered in the context they were found in. If a
guy
is inside a house that isn't his, and has lock picks, or other tools, that
can be construed as burglary tools. Same thing with finding them in a car
if the person has a history of burglary. But, without probable cause,
there
is no reason to believe they were used in a crime. Yet, one can be
arrested, charged, and pay a lot for an attorney before it's all sorted
out.

That's pretty much what I remember. My dad wouldn't carry them in the trunk
because it could lead to problems that might be costly to sort out. He had
some outrageous level of clearance for working on nuke subs and the FBI
routinely questioned our neighbors back when they really investigated
people. He actually built some clips to (sort of) conceal under the saw
table. He was a very straight arrow. (-:

I carry lock picks, slim jims, plus an assortment of security defeating
devices that I use to evaluate the security levels of real estate
properties. So long as you are not out there skulking around in the night
time, there is little to connect you to any criminal activity.

It's just up to the mentality of the LEO you encounter.

That's a big spin of the wheel in some places. For quite some time I used
to Metro to Philly and rent a car to get to some DoD sites in the area, some
of which are in less than stellar neighborhoods. I used to find syringes,
roaches (both kinds), roach clips and all sorts of other very odd things in
the map pockets and under the seats of the cars I rented at the train
station.

Apparently drug runners use rental cars to circumvent asset forfeiture laws
and the I-95 corridor is a prime conduit. It's a little different now that
bomb sniffing dogs "work" the trains just like the legless (?) guys used to
roll from car to car on little dollies in the NYC subways in 60's. At least
that's what I thought when I first saw them. I thought it was a seeing eye
dog until I saw the submachine gun. (-: I remember thinking "I hope that's
Homeland Security and not some blind guy with an H&K." You may laugh, but
plenty of blind people own guns.

--
Bobby G.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 19:36:32 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote:

My recent padlock cutting requirement has led me to believe I need to
acquire something a little bigger and faster at cutting through metal.

Which is a more useful tool all around? An electric angle grinder or a 4'
long bolt cutter?

In *my* shop? 5 4" angle grinders [with different wire brushes and
cutters on 4 of them- and a spare in case one breaks. After all,
they are mostly $12 HF specials]

Less cost, more use, and takes up about the same amount of room as a
pair of 4' bolt cutters. [I've got a 2' pair.]

I cut my re-rod with a cutoff saw. My brother-in-law, a strapping
young lad with a pair of 5' bolt cutters that weigh 80 pounds or so-
uses the bolt cutter.

-snip-

One thing that bothers me about bolt cutters is that I seem to recall from
childhood that some jurisdictions classify them as burglar tools allowed
only in the possession of locksmiths, etc. Anyone ever hear that?

In your shop, or in the back of your truck, they aren't burglar tools.
In your hand as you lurk around the back of the storage lockers-- they
become burglar tools.

Just like that 12" crescent wrench under my seat isn't a dangerous
weapon until I smack you up aside the head with it. Then it
becomes up tot he responding officer to determine if an additional
charge would be appropriate.

Jim

I've got both (well, my bolt cutters are three foot, not four). I've used
the angle grinder many more times than bolt cutters, and for variety of
different tasks. Angle grinder can be used to sharpen blades, enlarge holes
in metal, sand the bottom off a wood door, and gosh knows what.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Harry K" wrote in message
...

Get the angle grinder. Used for many other jobs. A bolt cutter is
pretty much a one purpose tool and you will probably not use but a few
times in your entire life...unless you take up burglary.

Harry K

Lets' see. We've got a guy here who:

A - Wants to know what tool is best for cutting through
locks.

B - Recently cut through a lock

C - Is concerned about whether police classify
bolt cutters as burglar tools.

D - Has a demonstrated dislike for big business

E - - Recently went from basic to premium cable.

Anybody have any ideas what he's doing?

On 12/15/2011 9:32 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
I've got both (well, my bolt cutters are three foot, not four). I've used
the angle grinder many more times than bolt cutters, and for variety of
different tasks. Angle grinder can be used to sharpen blades, enlarge holes
in metal, sand the bottom off a wood door, and gosh knows what.


Please fix your newsreader configuration. It's still incorrect.

willshak wrote in
m:

Robert Green wrote the following:
My recent padlock cutting requirement has led me to believe I need to
acquire something a little bigger and faster at cutting through
metal.

Which is a more useful tool all around? An electric angle grinder or
a 4' long bolt cutter?

Easy answer;
the angle grinder can be used for all sorts of things(with the right sort
of wheels),the bolt cutter is of very limited use.
I've even seen a biscuit joiner adapter for an angle grinder. Woodworkers
carve wood sculptures with them.


P.S. Now that I have gone from Basic to Premium cable, I've been
watching all the variations of storage locker auction shows that are
on (to my wife's great consternation - "We're NOT going to storage
auctions!"). I see just about an equal amount of the above tools to
pop the lock. Also learned that it's very useful to use Visegrips to
lock the hasp to the shackle before cutting to keep the blade from
jumping and shattering.

Another thing I learned is that most padlocks are about as resistant
to an angle grinder as balsa wood to a file. One lock that had a
unique shackle shroud took about 5 seconds longer to cut through, but
it the end it all clattered to the floor. Also learned not to touch
anything recently cut by a large blade on a grinder with a coffee-can
sized motor. Dat sucker's hot. (And yet people seemed so transfixed
by how fast the lock was cut they try to pick up the pieces anyway).

One thing that bothers me about bolt cutters is that I seem to recall
from childhood that some jurisdictions classify them as burglar tools
allowed only in the possession of locksmiths, etc. Anyone ever hear
that?

--
Bobby G.



Anything is classified as a burglar tool if it is used in a burglary.
Use a butter knife to break into a house, it becomes a burglary tool.



if you have your bolt cutter in your car,or on your person and lack a
legitimate reason for it being there,then it's a "burglar tool"(especially
if you are on someone else's property),but if it's in/around your own
home,it's not. Common sense.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
My recent padlock cutting requirement has led me to believe I need to
acquire something a little bigger and faster at cutting through metal.

Which is a more useful tool all around? An electric angle grinder or a 4'
long bolt cutter?

P.S. Now that I have gone from Basic to Premium cable, I've been watching
all the variations of storage locker auction shows that are on (to my
wife's
great consternation - "We're NOT going to storage auctions!"). I see just
about an equal amount of the above tools to pop the lock. Also learned
that
it's very useful to use Visegrips to lock the hasp to the shackle before
cutting to keep the blade from jumping and shattering.

Another thing I learned is that most padlocks are about as resistant to an
angle grinder as balsa wood to a file. One lock that had a unique shackle
shroud took about 5 seconds longer to cut through, but it the end it all
clattered to the floor. Also learned not to touch anything recently cut
by
a large blade on a grinder with a coffee-can sized motor. Dat sucker's
hot.
(And yet people seemed so transfixed by how fast the lock was cut they try
to pick up the pieces anyway).

One thing that bothers me about bolt cutters is that I seem to recall from
childhood that some jurisdictions classify them as burglar tools allowed
only in the possession of locksmiths, etc. Anyone ever hear that?

Heh, oxy-acetylene....
Looks cool, too.... impresses the gerlz....
I guess the cops could call O/A "bank robbers' tools".... LOL
--
EA



--
Bobby G.

On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 07:44:50 -0500, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 19:36:32 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote:

My recent padlock cutting requirement has led me to believe I need to
acquire something a little bigger and faster at cutting through metal.

Which is a more useful tool all around? An electric angle grinder or a 4'
long bolt cutter?

In *my* shop? 5 4" angle grinders [with different wire brushes and
cutters on 4 of them- and a spare in case one breaks. After all,
they are mostly $12 HF specials]


Didn't know they were so inexpensive.
What are you using them for?
Air or electric?
I do mostly auto wrench turning and never felt the need for one.
When I use a hacksaw or a Dremel cut off wheel on a bad bolt that heat
won't loosen, it's always in a place that's a tight fit.
If I did my own exhaust work anymore I might use one, but when I did I
can't recall ever having a big problem using wrenches and a hacksaw.
Once in a while I find myself cutting angle iron or bar stock with a
hacksaw - and I wish I had a band saw.
Don't use a power wire brush often, and either I use the one on my
bench grinder or chuck one in a drill.
Sharpen hand tools and mower blades on the bench grinder.
Haven't had to remove many padlocks.
If there was no bolt cutter handy, the few I've had to remove yielded
to laying a wrench on the body inside the shackle and one whack of the
hammer.
I was dumbfounded when Robert mentioned using an angle grinder to cut
off the head of a key.
Seems like massive overkill when a vise and hacksaw does that in 30
seconds.
Anyway, I'm just looking for some excuses here to buy an angle
grinder. Won't take much to get me there.

--Vic

While you're at HF getting angle grinder, they have a "Sawzall" knock off
that goes on sale for $20 now and again.

I changed the tail pipe on my van yesterday, barely before the rain moved
in. I thought the two exhaust clamp nuts would loosen, but they sheared the
shaft right off. Ah, well.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
I do mostly auto wrench turning and never felt the need for one.
When I use a hacksaw or a Dremel cut off wheel on a bad bolt that heat
won't loosen, it's always in a place that's a tight fit.
If I did my own exhaust work anymore I might use one, but when I did I
can't recall ever having a big problem using wrenches and a hacksaw.
Once in a while I find myself cutting angle iron or bar stock with a
hacksaw - and I wish I had a band saw.


Anyway, I'm just looking for some excuses here to buy an angle
grinder. Won't take much to get me there.

--Vic

On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 17:20:47 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

While you're at HF getting angle grinder, they have a "Sawzall" knock off
that goes on sale for $20 now and again.

I changed the tail pipe on my van yesterday, barely before the rain moved
in. I thought the two exhaust clamp nuts would loosen, but they sheared the
shaft right off. Ah, well.


That's the usual with exhaust clamps. No time to even think about
using an angle grinder.
I've already got a big Milwaukee Sawzall, a Christmas gift some years
ago.
Hardly ever used it. Shame.
Sawzall was handy going through plumbing walls and cutting out old
pipe when I was working for a plumber. That one was his.
But you got me thinking about that.
I've got a lot of trees/weed trees alongside my garage I'm going to
cut out in the spring. Many 2-3" diameter.
This time I'm going to do it right and lay material afterwards so the
growth doesn't come back.
Last time about 5 years ago I bought a cheap electric chain saw for
it, but never covered the ground afterwards.
Pretty sure that chain saw is either gone or broken.
Anyway, I looked to see if Sawzall pruning blades are sold.
Yep, and folks are using Sawzalls for pruning with good results.
So my Sawzall will finally get a workout.

--Vic

"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
"DD_BobK" wrote in message
news:f7d1bd46-2290-4319-885f-

stuff snipped

I have two bolt cutters (18" & 24") and two 4.5" grinders.

I've used the bolt cutters twice in the last 5 years...... I use the
grinders every month.

I have five grinders. I like more than one, because it saves time changing
blades. I use them every time I go to the shop.

I have a pair of 42" (!) bolt cutters. I use them very infrequently, but
when I do use them, they're the cat's meow

Steve

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
Robert Green wrote the following:

Which is a more useful tool all around? An electric angle grinder or
a 4' long bolt cutter?

Easy answer;
the angle grinder can be used for all sorts of things(with the right sort
of wheels),the bolt cutter is of very limited use.
I've even seen a biscuit joiner adapter for an angle grinder. Woodworkers
carve wood sculptures with them.

Sounds like a plan. I've been using a battery powered Dremel for a lot of
stuff I probably should have been using an angle grinder for . . .

stuff snipped

if you have your bolt cutter in your car,or on your person and lack a
legitimate reason for it being there,then it's a "burglar tool"(especially
if you are on someone else's property),but if it's in/around your own
home,it's not. Common sense.

I tend to agree with Steve B. on this one. It's probably not illegal pe se
(still haven't asked a real authority in my own jurisdiction, the final
arbiter of stuff like this) but it *could* end up badly in a couple of
scenarios. One is that for some reason I get stopped after a burglarly
where a bolt cutter was used. When the Beltway Sniper was erroneously
reported as driving a white van in the DC area a few years back, a very
large number of white vans were stopped and searched. I'm betting more than
a few of those drivers got busted for having *something* they shouldn't
have. One poor guy even had a legal rifle that happened to match the
caliber of the one the sniper was using - boy did HE have a bad, bad day.
You can always end up in the criminal justice system by accident. (FWIW,
the sniper was driving big, old car (Impala?) with a hole drilled through
the rear of the car to shoot from. His smallish teenage accomplice in the
trunk did most of the shooting. IIRC.)

The other scenario is if the cop is ****ed off and looking to get off patrol
and back to the station for some reason. (-:

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/...?article=42961

says:

Current law bans the possession of burglar tools such as "slim jims,"
shaved keys and bolt cutters, if law enforcement can establish the intent to
use these items to break-in and/or steal a car. Previously, police officers
and deputies could not arrest a suspect carrying those devices to steal a
motorcycle because it was not against the law. However, all that changes on
January 1st, 2011, thanks to the introduction of California Penal Code
Section 466.65. The new law creates a parallel offense which makes it a
misdemeanor to possess specified tools with the intent to unlawfully take or
drive a motorcycle. Violators face up to six months in jail and fines up to
$1,000.]

While it seems to agree with the general opinion that there needs to be a
"crime" associated with the possession, as Steve B. pointed out, you could
still have to prove that to the court - after you've been arrested, booked,
your car impounded, etc. Not worth the risk to keep them in the car trunk -
although I am not sure I would want to, anyway.

It's all moot because I'm going with the angle grinder. The obvious
sentiment here (I think it was DD_BobK who said he's used his twice in five
years) is that the bolt cutters are far less useful, all around, than angle
grinders. So it really doesn't matter if they're illegal in any of the
jurisdictions I pass through. One reason I am worried is that in DC, at
least before the Heller suit, someone with a license for a handgun in VA and
MD could NOT pass through DC without risking arrest. I had a carry permit
in both states and could never cut across the District because they did not
honor the permits of other states.

--
Bobby G.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
I've got both (well, my bolt cutters are three foot, not four). I've used
the angle grinder many more times than bolt cutters, and for variety of
different tasks. Angle grinder can be used to sharpen blades, enlarge
holes
in metal, sand the bottom off a wood door, and gosh knows what.

The Dremel does a lot of that, but it's battery powered. I've got a busload
of sanders - belt, orbital, etc. so that area's pretty well covered. I can
see the advantage of having a big diameter blade, an electric motor and
possibly a variable speed unit. (-: Cutting the rusted lock off would have
gone 10X as fast, at least.

--
Bobby G.

Vic Smith wrote:

On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 07:44:50 -0500, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:
-snip-

In *my* shop? 5 4" angle grinders [with different wire brushes and
cutters on 4 of them- and a spare in case one breaks. After all,
they are mostly $12 HF specials]


Didn't know they were so inexpensive.

The cheapest HF ones are 'good enough' for quick and dirty jobs and I
don't worry about dust or gunk wreaking havoc. If I'm going to be
using it for an hour or so, I'll load up the Hitachi. It cost a
bit more, but it just *feels better* in the hand and will probably
last longer.

What are you using them for?

2 have wire brushes. [one straight-- 1 cupped, braided wire]
1 always has a rough metal cutting disk.
the fourth might have a sanding/abrasion disk for metal or masonry.

I've used one in a rig that makes it a mini-chop saw. I can't
remember what I was cutting, but it was lots of small pieces and I had
better control with it than the big cutoff saw.

A friend used my Lancelot [chainsaw teeth around a disk] disk in the
Hitachi to carve a 400 pound pumpkin. One of these days I'll get
around to using it, too.g

Air or electric?

Electric.

I do mostly auto wrench turning and never felt the need for one.

It is dirty work-- but I grab one to sand, grind or cut metal & some
masonry.

When I use a hacksaw or a Dremel cut off wheel on a bad bolt that heat
won't loosen, it's always in a place that's a tight fit.

No good for tight spots. But good for making a spot 'not so tight'-
if the surrounding material doesn't need to be saved.g

-snip-
I was dumbfounded when Robert mentioned using an angle grinder to cut
off the head of a key.
Seems like massive overkill when a vise and hacksaw does that in 30
seconds.
Anyway, I'm just looking for some excuses here to buy an angle
grinder. Won't take much to get me there.

You need one. [or 5-- Steve and I have both admitted to having 5. --
and I forgot the old beast of an 8" that I picked up at a yard sale &
have only used once in a decade.]

Jim

"Steve B" wrote in message
...

"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
"DD_BobK" wrote in message
news:f7d1bd46-2290-4319-885f-

stuff snipped

I have two bolt cutters (18" & 24") and two 4.5" grinders.

I've used the bolt cutters twice in the last 5 years...... I use the
grinders every month.

I have five grinders. I like more than one, because it saves time
changing
blades. I use them every time I go to the shop.

I have two Dremels, one pretty much always loaded with a cut off disc, the
other with a wire brush. I use them at least twice a week. So I know the
value of rotating tools. The grinders are so damn cheap at HF on sale I
probably will acquire both variable and set speed grinders as they come on
sale because battery powered Dremels are a little underpowered for jobs like
padlock cutting.

I have a pair of 42" (!) bolt cutters. I use them very infrequently, but
when I do use them, they're the cat's meow

The big bolt cutters are a bit like magic in how quickly they cut through
something we all assumed was hard to defeat like a padlock. Truth be told,
I have no real use for them. I just want them. (-:

--
Bobby G.

"Jim Elbrecht" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 19:36:32 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote:

My recent padlock cutting requirement has led me to believe I need to
acquire something a little bigger and faster at cutting through metal.

Which is a more useful tool all around? An electric angle grinder or a
4'
long bolt cutter?

In *my* shop? 5 4" angle grinders [with different wire brushes and
cutters on 4 of them- and a spare in case one breaks. After all,
they are mostly $12 HF specials]

Any problems with them? HF tools have a spotty rep.

Less cost, more use, and takes up about the same amount of room as a
pair of 4' bolt cutters. [I've got a 2' pair.]

I cut my re-rod with a cutoff saw. My brother-in-law, a strapping
young lad with a pair of 5' bolt cutters that weigh 80 pounds or so-
uses the bolt cutter.

Yeowch! No rebar cutting forseen around here. Five footers? The lever is
amazing. Imagine trying to cut through rebar with a 6" diagonal cutter.
(-:

-snip-

One thing that bothers me about bolt cutters is that I seem to recall
from
childhood that some jurisdictions classify them as burglar tools allowed
only in the possession of locksmiths, etc. Anyone ever hear that?

In your shop, or in the back of your truck, they aren't burglar tools.
In your hand as you lurk around the back of the storage lockers-- they
become burglar tools.

Just like that 12" crescent wrench under my seat isn't a dangerous
weapon until I smack you up aside the head with it. Then it
becomes up tot he responding officer to determine if an additional
charge would be appropriate.

There's the rub. "Up to the responding officer." I don't want someone
having a bad day taking it out on me and from time to time that does happen
during traffic stops. Not an issue since I'll be getting the grinder and
NOT carrying it around in my car. No one's come up with any uses for the
bolt cutters that would justify buying them and in fact, have pretty much
said that they're a very infrequently utilized tool. If I had professional
reasons, like Steve or Stormy to carry them, I would, but all I have is big
diagonal cutters that are large enough to clip the main battery cable in
case of an emergency (have had two in my life that required them and only
one time when I had them!).

--
Bobby G.

On Dec 16, 7:28*am, "Robert Green" wrote:
"Steve B" wrote in message

...







"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
"DD_BobK" wrote in message
news:f7d1bd46-2290-4319-885f-

stuff snipped

I have two bolt cutters (18" & 24") and two 4.5" grinders.

I've used the bolt cutters twice in the last 5 years...... * I use the
grinders every month.

I have five grinders. *I like more than one, because it saves time
changing
blades. *I use them every time I go to the shop.

I have two Dremels, one pretty much always loaded with a cut off disc, the
other with a wire brush. *I use them at least twice a week. *So I know the
value of rotating tools. *The grinders are so damn cheap at HF on sale I
probably will acquire both variable and set speed grinders as they come on
sale because battery powered Dremels are a little underpowered for jobs like
padlock cutting.

I have a pair of 42" (!) bolt cutters. *I use them very infrequently, but
when I do use them, they're the cat's meow

The big bolt cutters are a bit like magic in how quickly they cut through
something we all assumed was hard to defeat like a padlock. *Truth be told,
I have no real use for them. *I just want them. (-:

--
Bobby G.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I often wondered why people snip the padlock. The hasp on the door is
a lot smaller, easier and I don't think it is even hardened.

Harry K

On 12/14/2011 7:36 PM, Robert Green wrote:
My recent padlock cutting requirement has led me to believe I need to
acquire something a little bigger and faster at cutting through metal.

Which is a more useful tool all around? An electric angle grinder or a 4'
long bolt cutter?

When I was doing a project which required me to "cut" threaded rod, I
used an air powered "cut off" tool. It's held in one hand and frees
the other hand to steady or hold what you are cutting.

In that instance a bolt cutter wouldn't do the job because it would do
more damage to the thread that a re-treading die could cure.

BUT bolt cutters have their place and it isn't just in cutting locks.

If you use chains or are working on a "chain link" fence, or you want to
cut wire cable, "bolt cutters" can do in a few seconds what would take
any rotary tool (angle grinder, cut off tool) minutes to do. Moreover,
there would be no noise, no hot sparks (which CAN set stuff on fire), no
metallic dust residue and no risk of a abrasive wheel flying apart.

If you do buy a bolt cutter buy the biggest ones you can. The smaller
ones are good for concealing but they might be defeated by a good lock.

BTW: A "Saws All" is also a good tool to use to cut "bolts." It
doesn't make as much noise or sparks as an abrasive cutting wheel but
still, usually, can get the job done with the right blade. "They" make
battery powered "Saws All"s now.

On 12/16/2011 8:37 AM, Robert Green wrote:
"Jim wrote in message
news
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 19:36:32 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote:

My recent padlock cutting requirement has led me to believe I need to
acquire something a little bigger and faster at cutting through metal.

Which is a more useful tool all around? An electric angle grinder or a
4'
long bolt cutter?

In *my* shop? 5 4" angle grinders [with different wire brushes and
cutters on 4 of them- and a spare in case one breaks. After all,
they are mostly $12 HF specials]

Any problems with them? HF tools have a spotty rep.


i've been using a 4" HF grinder with a diamond blade to cut granite
slabs and rough up the edges of the resulting pieces. that's an
incredibly dusty job and the dust eats motors, but the grinder has been
going good for years.

"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
"Jim Elbrecht" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 19:36:32 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote:

My recent padlock cutting requirement has led me to believe I need to
acquire something a little bigger and faster at cutting through metal.

Which is a more useful tool all around? An electric angle grinder or a
4'
long bolt cutter?

In *my* shop? 5 4" angle grinders [with different wire brushes and
cutters on 4 of them- and a spare in case one breaks. After all,
they are mostly $12 HF specials]

Any problems with them? HF tools have a spotty rep.

Less cost, more use, and takes up about the same amount of room as a
pair of 4' bolt cutters. [I've got a 2' pair.]

I cut my re-rod with a cutoff saw. My brother-in-law, a strapping
young lad with a pair of 5' bolt cutters that weigh 80 pounds or so-
uses the bolt cutter.

Yeowch! No rebar cutting forseen around here. Five footers? The lever
is
amazing. Imagine trying to cut through rebar with a 6" diagonal cutter.
(-:

-snip-

One thing that bothers me about bolt cutters is that I seem to recall
from
childhood that some jurisdictions classify them as burglar tools allowed
only in the possession of locksmiths, etc. Anyone ever hear that?

In your shop, or in the back of your truck, they aren't burglar tools.
In your hand as you lurk around the back of the storage lockers-- they
become burglar tools.

Just like that 12" crescent wrench under my seat isn't a dangerous
weapon until I smack you up aside the head with it. Then it
becomes up tot he responding officer to determine if an additional
charge would be appropriate.

There's the rub. "Up to the responding officer." I don't want someone
having a bad day taking it out on me and from time to time that does
happen
during traffic stops. Not an issue since I'll be getting the grinder and
NOT carrying it around in my car. No one's come up with any uses for the
bolt cutters that would justify buying them and in fact, have pretty much
said that they're a very infrequently utilized tool. If I had
professional
reasons, like Steve or Stormy to carry them, I would, but all I have is
big
diagonal cutters that are large enough to clip the main battery cable in
case of an emergency (have had two in my life that required them and only
one time when I had them!).


How would the police know what you have in your car or truck UNLESS you
allow them to search it ?
Were I ever asked by a police officer to have a look in my car, my response
would be why ?
But ultimately my response would be "Thank you for offering, BUT NO !"

I once got stopped on the highway for no reason other than allegedly my car
looked like a car they were looking for.
When I declined to have my car searched, the office indicated that he would
be calling a sniffer dog, and that could take hours before one was available
My response was:
"That's OK, I've got both reading material and work I can do while we're
waiting."
"Oh, and I have some extra water, if you need some when you're
waiting.."
"And naturally, you won't have any objections to my using a video-cam to
tape the process of sniffing my car.... I can set up on the berm over there
out of the handler's way..."
That clearly didn't make him that happy.
He let me go soon after.

On Dec 14, 6:36*pm, "Robert Green" wrote:
My recent padlock cutting requirement has led me to believe I need to
acquire something a little bigger and faster at cutting through metal.

Which is a more useful tool all around? *An electric angle grinder or a 4'
long bolt cutter?

P.S. *Now that I have gone from Basic to Premium cable, I've been watching
all the variations of storage locker auction shows that are on (to my wife's
great consternation - "We're NOT going to storage auctions!"). *I see just
about an equal amount of the above tools to pop the lock. *Also learned that
it's very useful to use Visegrips to lock the hasp to the shackle before
cutting to keep the blade from jumping and shattering.

Another thing I learned is that most padlocks are about as resistant to an
angle grinder as balsa wood to a file. *One lock that had a unique shackle
shroud took about 5 seconds longer to cut through, but it the end it all
clattered to the floor. *Also learned not to touch anything recently cut by
a large blade on a grinder with a coffee-can sized motor. *Dat sucker's hot.
(And yet people seemed so transfixed by how fast the lock was cut they try
to pick up the pieces anyway).

One thing that bothers me about bolt cutters is that I seem to recall from
childhood that some jurisdictions classify them as burglar tools allowed
only in the possession of locksmiths, etc. *Anyone ever hear that?

--
Bobby G.

In a decade of managing my self storage business, I have used our
angle grinder (Good Old HF brand 4") a few times and bolt cutters not
at all. I don't believe the latter would do much good with a decent
hardened lock, and replacement blades are not cheap.

Joe

"Harry K" wrote in message
news:a4f4b355-14e3-456b-a97e-

I often wondered why people snip the padlock. The hasp on the door is
a lot smaller, easier and I don't think it is even hardened.

So they can just replace the lock without having to replace the lock AND the
hasp.

--
Bobby G.

"Vic Smith" wrote in message

I was dumbfounded when Robert mentioned using an angle grinder to cut
off the head of a key.
Seems like massive overkill when a vise and hacksaw does that in 30
seconds.

You'll understand if you live long enough to get severe osteoarthritis.
Hacksawing is just brutal pain. Had a real (old) Skil saw with metal
cutting blades that just died - I would have used that.

--
Bobby G.

"Vic Smith" wrote in message

Anyway, I looked to see if Sawzall pruning blades are sold.
Yep, and folks are using Sawzalls for pruning with good results.
So my Sawzall will finally get a workout.

After I got stung multiple times by wasps this year, I cut down all the Rose
of Sharon shrubs that had about 2" thick canes with my very rarely used
Sawzall with just a normal woodcutting blade. Cut 'em "like buttah." I
think it was the second time I used it in 5 years.

--
Bobby G.

"Jim Elbrecht" wrote in message

You need one. [or 5-- Steve and I have both admitted to having 5. --
and I forgot the old beast of an 8" that I picked up at a yard sale &
have only used once in a decade.]

I've seen them cutting off locks with an 8" grinder that had a coffee-can
sized motor. Cut through a lock shackle like it was made of licorice. Why
isn't that spelled licorish? (-:

--
Bobby G.

"Robert Green" wrote


I would, but all I have is big
diagonal cutters that are large enough to clip the main battery cable in
case of an emergency (have had two in my life that required them and only
one time when I had them!).

--
Bobby G.

The thing you are referring to, I believe, are cable cutters. They are like
diagonal pliers, but don't have straight blades. They have two C shaped
sharp blades that keep the cable in a circle. They are very common for
welders, as they cut fine wire copper cable just fine. A good pair are $50,
tho.

Steve

"Robert Green" wrote:

"Jim Elbrecht" wrote in message
news

-snip-

In *my* shop? 5 4" angle grinders [with different wire brushes and
cutters on 4 of them- and a spare in case one breaks. After all,
they are mostly $12 HF specials]

Any problems with them? HF tools have a spotty rep.

I haven't had any. I have seen one [my brother's- running a Lancelot
blade] that self destructed.

Mine don't get a whole lot of use-- but what they get is rough &
dirty.

Jim

"Jim Elbrecht" wrote in message
...
"Robert Green" wrote:
"Jim Elbrecht" wrote in message

stuff snipped

Any problems with them? HF tools have a spotty rep.

I haven't had any. I have seen one [my brother's- running a Lancelot
blade] that self destructed.

I give up. Lancelot blade? Used for cutting round tables? Sharpening
lances? (-:

Mine don't get a whole lot of use-- but what they get is rough &
dirty.

Carving up dusty stuff killed the low speed setting on one of my Dremels.
Hopefully the HF grinders are more resistant.

--
Bobby G.

On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 16:29:49 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message

I was dumbfounded when Robert mentioned using an angle grinder to cut
off the head of a key.
Seems like massive overkill when a vise and hacksaw does that in 30
seconds.

You'll understand if you live long enough to get severe osteoarthritis.
Hacksawing is just brutal pain. Had a real (old) Skil saw with metal
cutting blades that just died - I would have used that.

Right. Didn't connect it. Hard to do unless you have the experience.
Reminds me of a scene where a friend of mine tore into our branch
manager really hard at a Christmas party.
When the manager arrived he made the rounds doing the normal
hand-shaking greetings.
It was nothing to me when he shook my hand.
But upon shaking my friend's hand, my friend exploded.
Too hearty a handshake.
Apparently in great pain, and favoring his shoulder, he yelled at the
manager,
"God dammit! What's wrong with you?!?!
I told you I had osteo-whatever !!!
What the hell's wrong with you?!?!?"

Never saw him go off like that.
I felt bad for the manager, as he meant no harm, just good will.
But apparently this wasn't the first time for this.
Anyway, seems the Dremel is your best bet for the key.
Much less strain than hefting an angle grinder.

--Vic

"John Gilmer" wrote in message

On 12/14/2011 7:36 PM, Robert Green wrote:

stuff snipped

When I was doing a project which required me to "cut" threaded rod, I
used an air powered "cut off" tool. It's held in one hand and frees
the other hand to steady or hold what you are cutting.

In that instance a bolt cutter wouldn't do the job because it would do
more damage to the thread that a re-treading die could cure.

BUT bolt cutters have their place and it isn't just in cutting locks.

If you use chains or are working on a "chain link" fence, or you want to
cut wire cable, "bolt cutters" can do in a few seconds what would take
any rotary tool (angle grinder, cut off tool) minutes to do. Moreover,
there would be no noise, no hot sparks (which CAN set stuff on fire), no
metallic dust residue and no risk of a abrasive wheel flying apart.

If you do buy a bolt cutter buy the biggest ones you can. The smaller
ones are good for concealing but they might be defeated by a good lock.

If I did any chain work, I might consider it. Right now I use my puny 18"
bolt cutters for heavy gauge Romex which they cut very nicely. With
arthritis I no longer have the hand strength required to cut even Romex with
short-handled cutters.

BTW: A "Saws All" is also a good tool to use to cut "bolts." It
doesn't make as much noise or sparks as an abrasive cutting wheel but
still, usually, can get the job done with the right blade. "They" make
battery powered "Saws All"s now.

It wasn't until recently when I bought I hammer drill with a huge A/C motor
that I realized how underpowered many battery powered devices are compared
to A/C units. I was using it with an earth auger to drill holes in the lawn
for termite bait tubes. When it hit a tough spot, it took everything I had
to hold onto the drill because it had so much torque.

--
Bobby G.