"Joe" wrote in message news:b9359665-1a22-4e14-ad0d-

stuff snipped

In a decade of managing my self storage business, I have used our
angle grinder (Good Old HF brand 4") a few times and bolt cutters not
at all. I don't believe the latter would do much good with a decent
hardened lock, and replacement blades are not cheap.

Another vote for the angle grinder. It's nearly unanimous. If a
self-storage guy doesn't use bolt cutters at all, I guess any logical hope I
have of justifying them just vanished. I may search around to see if anyone
sells an inexpensive hardness tester.

http://www.worldoftest.com/portablemht.htm

Inexpensive is a relative term. I'll have to stick with my spring-loaded
center punch and estimate hardness from the deformation left in the metal.
I would be fearful of breaking the cutting blades on hardened steel, too.

I don't believe the lock I Dremeled through was case hardened, but without a
hardness tester it was impossible to really tell.

--
Bobby G.

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 16:29:49 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message

I was dumbfounded when Robert mentioned using an angle grinder to cut
off the head of a key.
Seems like massive overkill when a vise and hacksaw does that in 30
seconds.

You'll understand if you live long enough to get severe osteoarthritis.
Hacksawing is just brutal pain. Had a real (old) Skil saw with metal
cutting blades that just died - I would have used that.

Right. Didn't connect it. Hard to do unless you have the experience.
Reminds me of a scene where a friend of mine tore into our branch
manager really hard at a Christmas party.
When the manager arrived he made the rounds doing the normal
hand-shaking greetings.
It was nothing to me when he shook my hand.
But upon shaking my friend's hand, my friend exploded.
Too hearty a handshake.
Apparently in great pain, and favoring his shoulder, he yelled at the
manager,
"God dammit! What's wrong with you?!?!
I told you I had osteo-whatever !!!
What the hell's wrong with you?!?!?"

Never saw him go off like that.
I felt bad for the manager, as he meant no harm, just good will.
But apparently this wasn't the first time for this.

It's something that's talked about on arthritis support groups. It means
you have to wear a very obvious hand brace (I have about 12, depending on
the task, including two "dress braces" for fancy parties). It's the only
way to ward off the super hardy handshakes which tend to do a lot of bone on
bone grinding on the recipient. It makes people scream if you catch them
just right. AMHIK.

My wrist is "blown out" along with the tendon that wraps around the thumb.
Very odd things set it off, like pushing the release/lock button on
seatbelts, opening wide mouthed jars (oil filter wrench takes care of that),
repetitive hand sawing and hand sanding and new ones popping up all the
time. Sometimes it hurts for no particular reason at all. )-: Oh, I
forgot. Turning on clamp lamps with the rotating switch does it, too,
because it involves a very complex thumb and wrist interaction where you
extend your thumb and pull back your forefinger at the same time. I have
converted most of them to a push button which can be operated by someone
with a stump. Planning for the grim, grim future.

Anyway, seems the Dremel is your best bet for the key.
Much less strain than hefting an angle grinder.

I was thinking of mounting it on a carriage to make it a Radial Dremel Saw.
(-: That way I could keep the cut straight and not have to continual hold
the Dremel at just the right angle. What bugs me is that I think I saw such
a "slide table" in the HF catalogs, but I recycle the old ones in the dog's
poop tray so there's no going back to look at them. I think it was an
attachment for a dial gauge or something similar. I can probably cobble one
together from a short drawer slide.

--
Bobby G.

"Vic Smith" wrote in message

Anyway, I'm just looking for some excuses here to buy an angle
grinder. Won't take much to get me there.

Better plug your ears with wax like Ulysses so you can't hear the siren call
of the cheap angle grinder. After reading this thread, if HF wasn't closed,
I'd be driving up there now.

I do recall one of the HF grinders came without any disks or even a spindle.
I found the lack of spindle odd.

--
Bobby G.

"Attila.Iskander" wrote in message
...
"Robert Green" wrote in message

stuff snipped

There's the rub. "Up to the responding officer." I don't want someone
having a bad day taking it out on me and from time to time that does
happen
during traffic stops. Not an issue since I'll be getting the grinder
and
NOT carrying it around in my car. No one's come up with any uses for
the
bolt cutters that would justify buying them and in fact, have pretty
much
said that they're a very infrequently utilized tool. If I had
professional
reasons, like Steve or Stormy to carry them, I would, but all I have is
big
diagonal cutters that are large enough to clip the main battery cable in
case of an emergency (have had two in my life that required them and
only
one time when I had them!).


How would the police know what you have in your car or truck UNLESS you
allow them to search it ?
Were I ever asked by a police officer to have a look in my car, my
response
would be why ?
But ultimately my response would be "Thank you for offering, BUT NO !"

Once you refuse, they escalate, reflexively.

I once got stopped on the highway for no reason other than allegedly my
car
looked like a car they were looking for.
When I declined to have my car searched, the office indicated that he
would
be calling a sniffer dog, and that could take hours before one was
available
My response was:
"That's OK, I've got both reading material and work I can do while
we're
waiting."
"Oh, and I have some extra water, if you need some when you're
waiting.."
"And naturally, you won't have any objections to my using a video-cam
to
tape the process of sniffing my car.... I can set up on the berm over
there
out of the handler's way..."
That clearly didn't make him that happy.
He let me go soon after.

My news editor had a favorite speech about deferring to the cops that said,
basically: "You're alone in the dark with a guy who has a gun. He also has
a radio that he can use to summon dozens more like him, all well-armed and
very likely to side with their brother cop. Act accordingly." So I do.

We recently had a case where cops roughed up two reporters who were writing
a story about a corrupt county executive. The case has gone nowhere, none
of the dash cams in what I believe were 7 cars involved in the incident were
working at the time, etc. The reporters were following the county exec in a
rental car and the cops assumed they were terrorists.

When I was a police reporter I made sure to cultivate and maintain good
relations with every cop I ran into. Even though I had an official press
pass and most beat cops had seen me talking to their lieutenants and
captains, working an active crime scene with the police makes them very,
very nervous. I always tried to interview every cop I saw at a scene just
so that they would get to know my face and thus be less likely to shoot me
by accident in a hairy situation.

I know what my rights are and yet know that sometimes the right thing to do
is not push a weak hand. As the cops of that era were so fond of saying:
"When the bullets are flying, get out your Constitution and see how many
bullets it stops." That, and "I'd rather be tried by 6 men in a box than
carried out in a box by 6 men" when talking about potentially questionable
shootings.

--
Bobby G.

"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
"Jim Elbrecht" wrote in message

You need one. [or 5-- Steve and I have both admitted to having 5. --
and I forgot the old beast of an 8" that I picked up at a yard sale &
have only used once in a decade.]

I've seen them cutting off locks with an 8" grinder that had a coffee-can
sized motor. Cut through a lock shackle like it was made of licorice.
Why
isn't that spelled licorish? (-:

--
Bobby G.

Make that six. I forgot the beast. I rarely use it.

Steve

Any problems with them? HF tools have a spotty rep.

HF puts out a lot of stuff that lasts a long time. I just like quality in
some of my tools. I use the grinders a LOT. Mainly finding one that fits
good in your hands is a lot of it. You can use it long enough in a day that
your hands vibrate like jello for about ten minutes after you put it down.
Comfort also means safety. I got a freebie 4.5" grinder with the chop saw I
recently bought. The two for $120 were what I thought was a deal. The
grinder has a new type of switch arrangement for me, a paddle type. I
didn't like it at first, but now love it, and it is so much easier on the
grip. If you let go, it stops. The others have a slider switch, and can
keep running if they jump away from you. Or towards you.

If you use a grinder infrequently, the HF are just fine.

Steve

"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
"Vic Smith" wrote in message

I was dumbfounded when Robert mentioned using an angle grinder to cut
off the head of a key.
Seems like massive overkill when a vise and hacksaw does that in 30
seconds.

You'll understand if you live long enough to get severe osteoarthritis.
Hacksawing is just brutal pain. Had a real (old) Skil saw with metal
cutting blades that just died - I would have used that.

--
Bobby G.

When fully set up, I have my 24" bolt cutters slide into holders on my
welding table. It is soooooo easy to cut flatbar with them when fabbing
things that have small pieces. Snip!

Steve

"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
"Attila.Iskander" wrote in message
...
"Robert Green" wrote in message

stuff snipped

There's the rub. "Up to the responding officer." I don't want someone
having a bad day taking it out on me and from time to time that does
happen
during traffic stops. Not an issue since I'll be getting the grinder
and
NOT carrying it around in my car. No one's come up with any uses for
the
bolt cutters that would justify buying them and in fact, have pretty
much
said that they're a very infrequently utilized tool. If I had
professional
reasons, like Steve or Stormy to carry them, I would, but all I have is
big
diagonal cutters that are large enough to clip the main battery cable
in
case of an emergency (have had two in my life that required them and
only
one time when I had them!).


How would the police know what you have in your car or truck UNLESS you
allow them to search it ?
Were I ever asked by a police officer to have a look in my car, my
response
would be why ?
But ultimately my response would be "Thank you for offering, BUT NO !"

Once you refuse, they escalate, reflexively.

I once got stopped on the highway for no reason other than allegedly my
car
looked like a car they were looking for.
When I declined to have my car searched, the office indicated that he
would
be calling a sniffer dog, and that could take hours before one was
available
My response was:
"That's OK, I've got both reading material and work I can do while
we're
waiting."
"Oh, and I have some extra water, if you need some when you're
waiting.."
"And naturally, you won't have any objections to my using a video-cam
to
tape the process of sniffing my car.... I can set up on the berm over
there
out of the handler's way..."
That clearly didn't make him that happy.
He let me go soon after.

My news editor had a favorite speech about deferring to the cops that
said,
basically: "You're alone in the dark with a guy who has a gun. He also
has
a radio that he can use to summon dozens more like him, all well-armed and
very likely to side with their brother cop. Act accordingly." So I do.

We recently had a case where cops roughed up two reporters who were
writing
a story about a corrupt county executive. The case has gone nowhere, none
of the dash cams in what I believe were 7 cars involved in the incident
were
working at the time, etc. The reporters were following the county exec in
a
rental car and the cops assumed they were terrorists.

When I was a police reporter I made sure to cultivate and maintain good
relations with every cop I ran into. Even though I had an official press
pass and most beat cops had seen me talking to their lieutenants and
captains, working an active crime scene with the police makes them very,
very nervous. I always tried to interview every cop I saw at a scene just
so that they would get to know my face and thus be less likely to shoot me
by accident in a hairy situation.

I know what my rights are and yet know that sometimes the right thing to
do
is not push a weak hand. As the cops of that era were so fond of saying:
"When the bullets are flying, get out your Constitution and see how many
bullets it stops." That, and "I'd rather be tried by 6 men in a box than
carried out in a box by 6 men" when talking about potentially questionable
shootings.


'I'll just respond to the above clichés with the following
Your rights are like a line in the sand. Every time you step back and let
someone step over it , and then bend down to draw a new line, you have just
given up some of that right
It your right is not worth protecting from the little encroachments, soon
you won't have any rights at all
Just look at the history of how government encroach on your rights one small
step at a time.

On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 19:41:35 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote:

"Jim Elbrecht" wrote in message
.. .
"Robert Green" wrote:
"Jim Elbrecht" wrote in message

stuff snipped

Any problems with them? HF tools have a spotty rep.

I haven't had any. I have seen one [my brother's- running a Lancelot
blade] that self destructed.

I give up. Lancelot blade? Used for cutting round tables? Sharpening
lances? (-:

It is a wood-carving blade. The company name never registered with
me, though I've known about these guys for decades.
http://katools.com/product-support/t...ot-and-squire/

King Arthur tools has stepped it up a notch- now you can put 2 of
these on one angle grinder.

Jim

If I did any chain work, I might consider it. Right now I use my puny 18"
bolt cutters for heavy gauge Romex which they cut very nicely. With
arthritis I no longer have the hand strength required to cut even Romex with
short-handled cutters.

It's up to you how you spend your money but it often pays to get the
exactly right tool even if you only use it once or twice.

Romex type table has Cu (or sometimes, Al) conductors plus plastic and,
sometimes, fabric, paper.

These are much softer than just about any steel and are best cut with a
"bypass" type, cable cutter. Such a cutter will minimize the damage to
the ends of the conductor. It reduces waste and, just as important,
saves the time needed to "fix" or trim the ends of the individual
conductors before making your connections.

Bolt cutters are "anvil" type. One of the two "cutting" surfaces is
flat. The other "cutter" has the cutting edge. They grossly deform
the ends of whatever they cut. That's not a problem because you know in
advance that you are destroying the "bolt."

"John Gilmer" wrote in message
net...

If I did any chain work, I might consider it. Right now I use my puny
18"
bolt cutters for heavy gauge Romex which they cut very nicely. With
arthritis I no longer have the hand strength required to cut even Romex
with
short-handled cutters.

It's up to you how you spend your money but it often pays to get the
exactly right tool even if you only use it once or twice.

Romex type table has Cu (or sometimes, Al) conductors plus plastic and,
sometimes, fabric, paper.

These are much softer than just about any steel and are best cut with a
"bypass" type, cable cutter. Such a cutter will minimize the damage to
the ends of the conductor. It reduces waste and, just as important,
saves the time needed to "fix" or trim the ends of the individual
conductors before making your connections.

The issue here is hand strength. The bolt cutters make it easy to slice the
12/2 and 12/3 w/ground cable off the roll. Once it's separated into
individual conductors, I can usually cut through or trim the single
connectors without too much trouble from arthritis. I also use the bolt
cutters to slice through RG6QS which has a copper clad steel center wire. I
unfortunately nicked up my best wire cutter/stripper for Romex by cutting
the CATV steel core cable before realizing it. With 18" handles by bolt
cutters are more like oversized wire cutters than bolt cutters.

Bolt cutters are "anvil" type. One of the two "cutting" surfaces is
flat. The other "cutter" has the cutting edge. They grossly deform
the ends of whatever they cut. That's not a problem because you know in
advance that you are destroying the "bolt."

That's interesting. Oddly enough, I just looked closely at my ancient,
scroll worked-handled, fell-off-a-garbage truck bolt cutters and they have
two identically shaped cutter blades. They don't seem to mangle the Romex
quite as badly as I imagine the anvil style cutters you are describing do.

I know exactly what you are saying by "using the right tool" but
unfortunately bad hand strength modifies the parameters of "what is best"
quite a bit - like using a Dremel for a hacksaw job or a Sawzall where I
once might have used pruning shears or a pruning saw. As Kurt Vonnegut once
wrote: "I knew getting old was going to be bad, but I didn't know it was
going to be THIS bad!" (-:

Thanks for your input, John.

--
Bobby G.

"Steve B" wrote in message
...

Any problems with them? HF tools have a spotty rep.

HF puts out a lot of stuff that lasts a long time. I just like quality in
some of my tools. I use the grinders a LOT. Mainly finding one that fits
good in your hands is a lot of it. You can use it long enough in a day
that
your hands vibrate like jello for about ten minutes after you put it down.
Comfort also means safety. I got a freebie 4.5" grinder with the chop saw
I
recently bought. The two for $120 were what I thought was a deal. The
grinder has a new type of switch arrangement for me, a paddle type. I
didn't like it at first, but now love it, and it is so much easier on the
grip. If you let go, it stops. The others have a slider switch, and can
keep running if they jump away from you. Or towards you.

Looking at the "Lancelot" blade that Jim talked about (chain saw teeth on a
wheel) I can see the benefit of a paddle/dead man's switch. Wouldn't want
that sucker running wild.

I once did Formica work with a guy who had longer than shoulder-length hair.
Got it caught in the router bit which pulled the router right up against his
head, knocking him out cold while the router motor whined from the overload.
He's lucky it was one of those roller bearing trim bits. A different kind
of bit might have left enough cutting surfaces exposed to trephine his
skull.

--
Bobby G.

On 12/18/2011 2:20 AM, Robert Green wrote:
"John wrote in message
net...

If I did any chain work, I might consider it. Right now I use my puny
18"
bolt cutters for heavy gauge Romex which they cut very nicely. With
arthritis I no longer have the hand strength required to cut even Romex
with
short-handled cutters.

It's up to you how you spend your money but it often pays to get the
exactly right tool even if you only use it once or twice.

Romex type table has Cu (or sometimes, Al) conductors plus plastic and,
sometimes, fabric, paper.

These are much softer than just about any steel and are best cut with a
"bypass" type, cable cutter. Such a cutter will minimize the damage to
the ends of the conductor. It reduces waste and, just as important,
saves the time needed to "fix" or trim the ends of the individual
conductors before making your connections.

The issue here is hand strength. The bolt cutters make it easy to slice the
12/2 and 12/3 w/ground cable off the roll. Once it's separated into
individual conductors, I can usually cut through or trim the single
connectors without too much trouble from arthritis. I also use the bolt
cutters to slice through RG6QS which has a copper clad steel center wire. I
unfortunately nicked up my best wire cutter/stripper for Romex by cutting
the CATV steel core cable before realizing it. With 18" handles by bolt
cutters are more like oversized wire cutters than bolt cutters.

Bolt cutters are "anvil" type. One of the two "cutting" surfaces is
flat. The other "cutter" has the cutting edge. They grossly deform
the ends of whatever they cut. That's not a problem because you know in
advance that you are destroying the "bolt."

That's interesting. Oddly enough, I just looked closely at my ancient,
scroll worked-handled, fell-off-a-garbage truck bolt cutters and they have
two identically shaped cutter blades. They don't seem to mangle the Romex
quite as badly as I imagine the anvil style cutters you are describing do.

I know exactly what you are saying by "using the right tool" but
unfortunately bad hand strength modifies the parameters of "what is best"
quite a bit - like using a Dremel for a hacksaw job or a Sawzall where I
once might have used pruning shears or a pruning saw. As Kurt Vonnegut once
wrote: "I knew getting old was going to be bad, but I didn't know it was
going to be THIS bad!" (-:

Thanks for your input, John.

--
Bobby G.


I have similar problems (just getting way too f* old) and I find that
long handled loppers are great for trimming shrubs and small (3/4" or
less depending on species) tree branches. Not only easier on the hands
but less bending over. You also can pick up a lot of the larger stuff
with the loppers just don't cut through when you go to pick it up off
the ground.

They are great for trimming thorny rose bushes.

John

"Robert Green" wrote


I once did Formica work with a guy who had longer than shoulder-length
hair.
Got it caught in the router bit which pulled the router right up against
his
head, knocking him out cold while the router motor whined from the
overload.
He's lucky it was one of those roller bearing trim bits. A different kind
of bit might have left enough cutting surfaces exposed to trephine his
skull.

--
Bobby G.


I was once in a clinic waiting area when a big buy limped in with red
bandages everywhere. Two others were assisting him. The nurse asked what
happened.
"Got messed up with a grinder."

The nurse said it would probably be a good while, so I came back the next
day. I have never seen one human with so many bandages.

Steve

"Robert Green" wrote


That's interesting. Oddly enough, I just looked closely at my ancient,
scroll worked-handled, fell-off-a-garbage truck bolt cutters and they have
two identically shaped cutter blades. They don't seem to mangle the Romex
quite as badly as I imagine the anvil style cutters you are describing do.

I know exactly what you are saying by "using the right tool" but
unfortunately bad hand strength modifies the parameters of "what is best"
quite a bit - like using a Dremel for a hacksaw job or a Sawzall where I
once might have used pruning shears or a pruning saw. As Kurt Vonnegut
once
wrote: "I knew getting old was going to be bad, but I didn't know it was
going to be THIS bad!" (-:

Thanks for your input, John.

--
Bobby G.

It has been eight days now since me and two assistants put up about 1100 sf
of steel roofing on my shop. I am still very sore in my bad shoulder,
hands, and wrists. AND, I bought the Dewalt combo 18v. drill and impact
driver just for the job. Still, it kicked my butt. It goes like that now.
Work a while. Recover. Repeat until done, which is never. But I do know
my tool arsenal is growing. Next things are an electric caulk gun and air
pop rivet tool. I am going to have to do a lot of caulk on this building,
and I'm not squeezing cold caulk with my hands. Same thing on pop rivets.
Oh, I could do it, I just couldn't wipe myself for a few days after.

Steve

On Sun, 18 Dec 2011 02:44:41 -0500, "Robert Green"
wrote:

"Steve B" wrote in message
.. .

Any problems with them? HF tools have a spotty rep.

HF puts out a lot of stuff that lasts a long time. I just like quality in
some of my tools. I use the grinders a LOT. Mainly finding one that fits
good in your hands is a lot of it. You can use it long enough in a day
that
your hands vibrate like jello for about ten minutes after you put it down.
Comfort also means safety. I got a freebie 4.5" grinder with the chop saw
I
recently bought. The two for $120 were what I thought was a deal. The
grinder has a new type of switch arrangement for me, a paddle type. I
didn't like it at first, but now love it, and it is so much easier on the
grip. If you let go, it stops. The others have a slider switch, and can
keep running if they jump away from you. Or towards you.

Looking at the "Lancelot" blade that Jim talked about (chain saw teeth on a
wheel) I can see the benefit of a paddle/dead man's switch. Wouldn't want
that sucker running wild.

The paddle is a good idea--- and having one *real nice* angle grinder
is, too. The feel, the balance, and hopefully longevity are worth a
few bucks.

There is a flat spot on the *back* of angle grinders so you can set it
down with the wheel up. For some reason *remembering* to put it
down right is incredibly hard. I've trained myself, but I was going
nuts reminding my friend [the pumpkin carver with the Lancelot blade]
to put it down right.

I got the 'cheap' lesson [as in 'no blood shed'] one time when I set
it down after I'd pulled the cord a touch too far & lost power. When I
plugged it in, that thing did about a 3 foot leap towards me.
*Somebody* had forgotten to turn it off *and* set it down wrong.


I once did Formica work with a guy who had longer than shoulder-length hair.
Got it caught in the router bit which pulled the router right up against his
head, knocking him out cold while the router motor whined from the overload.
He's lucky it was one of those roller bearing trim bits. A different kind
of bit might have left enough cutting surfaces exposed to trephine his
skull.

EEEw-- just got a visual of that happening with a Lancelot blade.

Jim

In article ,
John Gilmer wrote:
...snipped...
Bolt cutters are "anvil" type. One of the two "cutting" surfaces is
flat. The other "cutter" has the cutting edge. They grossly deform
the ends of whatever they cut.

You are correct about bolt cutters deforming the ends, but most are
not anvil-type cutters.


--
Often wrong, never in doubt.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

"Jim Elbrecht" wrote


I got the 'cheap' lesson [as in 'no blood shed'] one time when I set
it down after I'd pulled the cord a touch too far & lost power. When I
plugged it in, that thing did about a 3 foot leap towards me.
*Somebody* had forgotten to turn it off *and* set it down wrong.
Jim

I love that scene in Captain Ron where Martin Short (?) plugs in the belt
sander, and it comes across the deck and gets him right in the kisser,
knocking him into the Gulf of Mexico. Yep, those things that turn fast can
be dangerous.

Steve

"Jim Elbrecht" wrote in message
...
wrote:
"Steve B" wrote in message

Looking at the "Lancelot" blade that Jim talked about (chain saw teeth on
a
wheel) I can see the benefit of a paddle/dead man's switch. Wouldn't
want
that sucker running wild.

The paddle is a good idea--- and having one *real nice* angle grinder
is, too. The feel, the balance, and hopefully longevity are worth a
few bucks.

There is a flat spot on the *back* of angle grinders so you can set it
down with the wheel up. For some reason *remembering* to put it
down right is incredibly hard. I've trained myself, but I was going
nuts reminding my friend [the pumpkin carver with the Lancelot blade]
to put it down right.

Reminds me of when I has the RAS blade set a little too high for the plywood
I was cutting and it "walked" up onto the surface of the work at right at me
at about Warp Six. I am sure that if all of us in AHR told our stories we
could end up with a fat book titled: "How My Power Tool Tried to Kill Me."
I wonder if some of the people we haven't heard from in a while could write
"and succeeded" as a postscript. I finally had to abandon my arthritis
group because so many people I got to know and like would die. It was very
depressing.

I got the 'cheap' lesson [as in 'no blood shed'] one time when I set
it down after I'd pulled the cord a touch too far & lost power. When I
plugged it in, that thing did about a 3 foot leap towards me.
*Somebody* had forgotten to turn it off *and* set it down wrong.

Yeah, that *somebody's* been hanging around here, too. I remember working
on space heater that needed to have the fan replaced. I pulled the plug
from the wall and starting unscrewing stuff until I touched the connectors
for the motor and jumped about five feet straight up from the shock. I had
unplugged *something* - it just turned out to be something other than the
heater.

I once did Formica work with a guy who had longer than shoulder-length
hair.
Got it caught in the router bit which pulled the router right up against
his
head, knocking him out cold while the router motor whined from the
overload.
He's lucky it was one of those roller bearing trim bits. A different
kind
of bit might have left enough cutting surfaces exposed to trephine his
skull.

EEEw-- just got a visual of that happening with a Lancelot blade.

I suspect that it would do a little more damage than just knocking someone
out. It could easily knock them into heaven (or hell).

--
Bobby G.

"John" wrote in message
...
On 12/18/2011 2:20 AM, Robert Green wrote:

stuff snipped

I know exactly what you are saying by "using the right tool" but
unfortunately bad hand strength modifies the parameters of "what is
best"
quite a bit - like using a Dremel for a hacksaw job or a Sawzall where I
once might have used pruning shears or a pruning saw. As Kurt Vonnegut
once
wrote: "I knew getting old was going to be bad, but I didn't know it was
going to be THIS bad!" (-:

Thanks for your input, John.

I have similar problems (just getting way too f* old) and I find that
long handled loppers are great for trimming shrubs and small (3/4" or
less depending on species) tree branches. Not only easier on the hands
but less bending over. You also can pick up a lot of the larger stuff
with the loppers just don't cut through when you go to pick it up off
the ground.

There was a time when I could walk around the house with a small pair of
pruning shears and get most of the trimming done. Now it's the long handled
loppers or more and more frequently, the Sawzall. I use them as "picker
uppers" too. Always reminds me of a crocodile carrying her young around in
her mouth. I remember seeing some horror film where they were being used to
remove fingers, one by one, which I am sure they can do with ease.

They are great for trimming thorny rose bushes.

All my rose bushes died when I was on travel during an extended
rought. )-: I've never replaced them but maybe it's time to try again. I
used to bring in freshly cut roses for all the admin. assistants in my group
at work and somehow, my work always seemed to float to the front of the
queue.

--
Bobby G.

"Steve B" wrote in message
...
"Robert Green" wrote
"I knew getting old was going to be bad, but I didn't know it was
going to be THIS bad!" (-:

It has been eight days now since me and two assistants put up about 1100
sf
of steel roofing on my shop. I am still very sore in my bad shoulder,
hands, and wrists. AND, I bought the Dewalt combo 18v. drill and impact
driver just for the job. Still, it kicked my butt. It goes like that
now.
Work a while. Recover. Repeat until done, which is never. But I do know
my tool arsenal is growing. Next things are an electric caulk gun and air
pop rivet tool. I am going to have to do a lot of caulk on this building,
and I'm not squeezing cold caulk with my hands. Same thing on pop rivets.
Oh, I could do it, I just couldn't wipe myself for a few days after.

I wish that was all that happened when I overdid and raked 17 bags of leaves
in one afternoon. I could hardly lower myself to the commode. What really
bothers me these days is the tendon damage I sustained to my hand. Every
once in a while, it spasms so badly I drop whatever's in my hand. Mostly
it's lunch that ends up on the floor, but every once in a while it's a
running power tool. I just make sure never to engage the trigger locks
anymore!

I've been looking at electric caulking guns. Boy is there every a wide
range of units available, and plenty of crappy ones. The worst (and
cheapest) is the B&D battery powered unit that takes forever to get regular
caulk going and won't pump silicone caulk at all. At least according to the
many reviews on Amazon, which I find to be accurate for the most part if you
factor out the idiots and the perpetual whiners who would find fault with a
free crate of gold ingots.

B&D means "Batteries Die" in my opinion. I just got two new B&D power
screwdrivers for Christmas gifts and already I've found a number of things
that aren't done very well compared to the Skil units they are replacing.
That's for another thread. One takes AA batteries, the other is a 2.4V
rechargeable. Both are pretty weak compared to the 3.6V Skil units. I've
got to keep powerdrivers in most of the toolkits around the house because
arthritic wrists don't do well pushing down and twisting at the same
ime. )-:

--
Bobby G.

"Steve B" wrote in message
...
"Robert Green" wrote

I once did Formica work with a guy who had longer than shoulder-length
hair.
Got it caught in the router bit which pulled the router right up against
his
head, knocking him out cold while the router motor whined from the
overload.
He's lucky it was one of those roller bearing trim bits. A different
kind
of bit might have left enough cutting surfaces exposed to trephine his
skull.

I was once in a clinic waiting area when a big buy limped in with red
bandages everywhere. Two others were assisting him. The nurse asked what
happened.
"Got messed up with a grinder."

The nurse said it would probably be a good while, so I came back the next
day. I have never seen one human with so many bandages.

The worse thing I think I've ever seen was when a pickup truck with 11
highschoolers in the back overturned at what the cops said was in excess of
80MPH. Every single one of them died, and several had their skin abraded
right down to the bone. It was hard to tell they were even human - it
looked like a butcher counter.

Whenever I see kids riding in the back of a pickup truck, I dial 911. I am
sure the drivers and riders don't realize the kinds of chances they are
taking when they ride in the back without belts or protection of any kind.
It was one of those accidents where rescue workers end up in counseling
because the damage is so gruesome.

Can't seem to find it on the net, but it happened almost 30 years ago (could
it be that long?) when I was still a reporter and stuff that old rarely
makes its way to the net except in paid newspaper archives. I shouldn't be
surprised. Three of the publications I worked for went under completely,
leaving no trace. A witness to the crash said they scattered like bowling
pins and when she realized that she heard the impact and the skidding but no
screaming that they all were dead.

--
Bobby G.

"Robert Green" wrote

I've
got to keep powerdrivers in most of the toolkits around the house because
arthritic wrists don't do well pushing down and twisting at the same
ime. )-:

--
Bobby G.

I was asked what I wanted for Christmas. "ooooh, some of those t handled
nut drivers from Craftsman." I got a 12 pack of the regulars, screwdriver
handle style. Cost $20 on sale. Cost for the two pack standard/metric $80.
Took them to Sears, and the standard screwdriver handle ones are $30 for
six, either standard of metric, making that $60 for what they bought for
$20. Musta been a leader item. But yeah, I am looking at tools a lot
differently lately.

And an electric caulk gun is on the event horizon. Especially here when
it's cold.

Steve

"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
"Steve B" wrote in message
...
"Robert Green" wrote

I once did Formica work with a guy who had longer than shoulder-length
hair.
Got it caught in the router bit which pulled the router right up
against
his
head, knocking him out cold while the router motor whined from the
overload.
He's lucky it was one of those roller bearing trim bits. A different
kind
of bit might have left enough cutting surfaces exposed to trephine his
skull.

I was once in a clinic waiting area when a big buy limped in with red
bandages everywhere. Two others were assisting him. The nurse asked
what
happened.
"Got messed up with a grinder."

The nurse said it would probably be a good while, so I came back the next
day. I have never seen one human with so many bandages.

The worse thing I think I've ever seen was when a pickup truck with 11
highschoolers in the back overturned at what the cops said was in excess
of
80MPH. Every single one of them died, and several had their skin abraded
right down to the bone. It was hard to tell they were even human - it
looked like a butcher counter.

Whenever I see kids riding in the back of a pickup truck, I dial 911. I
am
sure the drivers and riders don't realize the kinds of chances they are
taking when they ride in the back without belts or protection of any kind.
It was one of those accidents where rescue workers end up in counseling
because the damage is so gruesome.

Can't seem to find it on the net, but it happened almost 30 years ago
(could
it be that long?) when I was still a reporter and stuff that old rarely
makes its way to the net except in paid newspaper archives. I shouldn't
be
surprised. Three of the publications I worked for went under completely,
leaving no trace. A witness to the crash said they scattered like bowling
pins and when she realized that she heard the impact and the skidding but
no
screaming that they all were dead.

--
Bobby G.

In Nevada, everything in the back of a pickup is considered cargo. Even a
five year old. Go figger.

Steve

On Tue, 27 Dec 2011 09:53:17 -0800, "Steve B" wrote:


"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
"Steve B" wrote in message
...
"Robert Green" wrote

I once did Formica work with a guy who had longer than shoulder-length
hair.
Got it caught in the router bit which pulled the router right up
against
his
head, knocking him out cold while the router motor whined from the
overload.
He's lucky it was one of those roller bearing trim bits. A different
kind
of bit might have left enough cutting surfaces exposed to trephine his
skull.

I was once in a clinic waiting area when a big buy limped in with red
bandages everywhere. Two others were assisting him. The nurse asked
what
happened.
"Got messed up with a grinder."

The nurse said it would probably be a good while, so I came back the next
day. I have never seen one human with so many bandages.

The worse thing I think I've ever seen was when a pickup truck with 11
highschoolers in the back overturned at what the cops said was in excess
of
80MPH. Every single one of them died, and several had their skin abraded
right down to the bone. It was hard to tell they were even human - it
looked like a butcher counter.

Whenever I see kids riding in the back of a pickup truck, I dial 911. I
am
sure the drivers and riders don't realize the kinds of chances they are
taking when they ride in the back without belts or protection of any kind.
It was one of those accidents where rescue workers end up in counseling
because the damage is so gruesome.

Can't seem to find it on the net, but it happened almost 30 years ago
(could
it be that long?) when I was still a reporter and stuff that old rarely
makes its way to the net except in paid newspaper archives. I shouldn't
be
surprised. Three of the publications I worked for went under completely,
leaving no trace. A witness to the crash said they scattered like bowling
pins and when she realized that she heard the impact and the skidding but
no
screaming that they all were dead.

--
Bobby G.

In Nevada, everything in the back of a pickup is considered cargo. Even a
five year old. Go figger.

Every state I've lived in, a five-year old in the back of a pickup is a
vacation to the greybar motel. Even a dog in the back can get you arrested.