A good friend of mine bought and installed one of the stairway lifts you see
on TV ads in his dad's house. His dad had serious hip problems that an
artificial hip did not make better. So his dad had basically stopped going
upstairs or downstairs. So his son bought the lift. Things actually went
kind of OK for two years until just recently when the chair stopped midpoint
and his dad got out to descend the stair manually. Well, that didn't work
out so well because he ended up at the bottom of the stairs, pretty badly
banged up from a relatively short fall.

So here's the question. Has anyone ever seen or even thought about
designing a home-brewed "safe" stairway? I've been thinking about a
collection of airbags (or one superlarge one) at the bottom of the stairs,
triggered by some sort of detector circuit that could detect a human falling
down the stairs faster than normal walking. You might still get banged up
pretty badly, but the maximum damage, from what little I could find about
the subject, seems to occur when you hit bottom.

I figure if my cheap little Mayflower GPS system can tell me "You're
speeding" that detecting a mass falling down a stairway is entirely
"doable." (-:

I assume this is going to be costly. However my friend assures me that this
has already been a very costly spill for him (he's taken off work and flown
out to take care of his dad while he recovers - and he feels kind of guilty
for getting the stair lift to begin with).

I know that the leading cause of accidental death in the home environment is
from stairway falls. If a $10K device saves a life (especially mine!) than
I might be willing to pay that.

--
Bobby G.

On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 14:00:37 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:


I know that the leading cause of accidental death in the home environment is
from stairway falls. If a $10K device saves a life (especially mine!) than
I might be willing to pay that.

Nothing to get up/down stairs is 100%.
In the case of a your friend's dad, ramping under where the chair
travels would have made it possible to slide down if the chair
stopped.
But if the staircase is narrow, that might not work for others using
the staircase.
Haven't seen these systems up close, and don't know about them.
But the bottom line is staircases are meant for those who can use
them.
At a certain age or level of infirmity, the simple answer is no
stairs.
Ranch style house.

--Vic

On 9/13/2011 2:00 PM, Robert Green wrote:
A good friend of mine bought and installed one of the stairway lifts you see
on TV ads in his dad's house. His dad had serious hip problems that an
artificial hip did not make better. So his dad had basically stopped going
upstairs or downstairs. So his son bought the lift. Things actually went
kind of OK for two years until just recently when the chair stopped midpoint
and his dad got out to descend the stair manually. Well, that didn't work
out so well because he ended up at the bottom of the stairs, pretty badly
banged up from a relatively short fall.

So here's the question. Has anyone ever seen or even thought about
designing a home-brewed "safe" stairway? I've been thinking about a
collection of airbags (or one superlarge one) at the bottom of the stairs,
triggered by some sort of detector circuit that could detect a human falling
down the stairs faster than normal walking. You might still get banged up
pretty badly, but the maximum damage, from what little I could find about
the subject, seems to occur when you hit bottom.

I figure if my cheap little Mayflower GPS system can tell me "You're
speeding" that detecting a mass falling down a stairway is entirely
"doable." (-:

I assume this is going to be costly. However my friend assures me that this
has already been a very costly spill for him (he's taken off work and flown
out to take care of his dad while he recovers - and he feels kind of guilty
for getting the stair lift to begin with).

I know that the leading cause of accidental death in the home environment is
from stairway falls. If a $10K device saves a life (especially mine!) than
I might be willing to pay that.

--
Bobby G.



I'm thinking if you live alone, one of those "Help, I've fallen and I
can't get up" panic buttons is a good idea. Think they cost about
$30/month and have the receiver on your phone line. In this case he
could have sent for help when stranded in the lift.

All kinds of things could happen besides the situation you describe.
If my father had had one, his stroke may not have put him in a nursing
home as it went unnoticed for several hours and immediate treatment
could have prevented his dementia. I know of someone else that used it
when a burglar broke into their house.

On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 14:00:37 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

A good friend of mine bought and installed one of the stairway lifts you see
on TV ads in his dad's house. His dad had serious hip problems that an
artificial hip did not make better. So his dad had basically stopped going
upstairs or downstairs. So his son bought the lift. Things actually went
kind of OK for two years until just recently when the chair stopped midpoint
and his dad got out to descend the stair manually. Well, that didn't work
out so well because he ended up at the bottom of the stairs, pretty badly
banged up from a relatively short fall.

So here's the question. Has anyone ever seen or even thought about
designing a home-brewed "safe" stairway? I've been thinking about a
collection of airbags (or one superlarge one) at the bottom of the stairs,
triggered by some sort of detector circuit that could detect a human falling
down the stairs faster than normal walking. You might still get banged up
pretty badly, but the maximum damage, from what little I could find about
the subject, seems to occur when you hit bottom.

I figure if my cheap little Mayflower GPS system can tell me "You're
speeding" that detecting a mass falling down a stairway is entirely
"doable." (-:

I assume this is going to be costly. However my friend assures me that this
has already been a very costly spill for him (he's taken off work and flown
out to take care of his dad while he recovers - and he feels kind of guilty
for getting the stair lift to begin with).

I know that the leading cause of accidental death in the home environment is
from stairway falls. If a $10K device saves a life (especially mine!) than
I might be willing to pay that.

Say two cats are chasing each other up/down the steps; how would you
prevent the "airbags" from deploying? (thinking out loud)...

On 9/13/2011 1:00 PM, Robert Green wrote:

So here's the question. Has anyone ever seen or even thought about
designing a home-brewed "safe" stairway? I've been thinking about a
collection of airbags (or one superlarge one) at the bottom of the stairs,
triggered by some sort of detector circuit that could detect a human falling
down the stairs faster than normal walking. You might still get banged up
pretty badly, but the maximum damage, from what little I could find about
the subject, seems to occur when you hit bottom.

It'd be cheaper and easier to outfit the fall-prone person with an
airbag vest, like the ones made for motorcyclists and horseback riders:

http://www.bikebone.com/page/BBSC/CTGY/AT

Basically, it has a built-in airbag with cervical neck support.
There's a lanyard running from the jacket or vest that the rider
attaches to the saddle. A gentle pull won't deploy the airbag, but a
sudden jerk will. When the person is thrown from the saddle, the
airbag deploys and the person skids/tumbles on the bag.

In either scenario, the challenge is figuring out how to trigger the
airbag when needed. Perhaps a built-in accelerometer. They use those
in laptops, to detect sudden motion (suggesting it will fall to the
ground). It tells the computer to temporarily shut down the hard drive
to protect it from the imminent shock.

"Frank" wrote in message
...
On 9/13/2011 2:00 PM, Robert Green wrote:

stuff snipped

I'm thinking if you live alone, one of those "Help, I've fallen and I
can't get up" panic buttons is a good idea. Think they cost about
$30/month and have the receiver on your phone line. In this case he
could have sent for help when stranded in the lift.

All kinds of things could happen besides the situation you describe.
If my father had had one, his stroke may not have put him in a nursing
home as it went unnoticed for several hours and immediate treatment
could have prevented his dementia. I know of someone else that used it
when a burglar broke into their house.

Ironically, he had one of those pendants but didn't use it when the lift
failed because he didn't want the fire department coming and axing down his
front door!!! Go figure. He's probably alive for having one because once
he was crumpled up at the bottom of the stairs, he didn't care so much about
the door (which turned out to be unlocked).

Sorry to hear about your dad. From what I know, he's not alone in having
that happen. Plenty of stroke victims living alone aren't discovered until
they are dead. Living alone gets to be dangerous as you get older. I've
had some nasty spills, so did both my parents when they were still alive.
My wife's first husband banged his head after falling off a ladder and was
never the same afterward. His loss, my gain. (-:

--
Bobby G.

"Oren" wrote in message
On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 14:00:37 -0400, "Robert Green"

stuff snipped

I assume this is going to be costly. However my friend assures me that
this
has already been a very costly spill for him (he's taken off work and
flown
out to take care of his dad while he recovers - and he feels kind of
guilty
for getting the stair lift to begin with).

I know that the leading cause of accidental death in the home environment
is
from stairway falls. If a $10K device saves a life (especially mine!)
than
I might be willing to pay that.

Say two cats are chasing each other up/down the steps; how would you
prevent the "airbags" from deploying? (thinking out loud)...

No cats involved but I'm thinking weight sensors on the upper steps could
determine whether a human or a pet were traversing the stairs. Also, "beam"
sensors at say 3' high would have to be interrupted in order for the system
to deploy. The sensor part doesn't bother me as much as the "what to do to
interrupt a falling human being without making things worse" part. From the
recent seat belt discussion, it's clear that not all safety features are as
safe as they could be.

--
Bobby G.

"Hell Toupee" wrote in message
...
On 9/13/2011 1:00 PM, Robert Green wrote:

So here's the question. Has anyone ever seen or even thought about
designing a home-brewed "safe" stairway? I've been thinking about a
collection of airbags (or one superlarge one) at the bottom of the
stairs,
triggered by some sort of detector circuit that could detect a human
falling
down the stairs faster than normal walking. You might still get banged
up
pretty badly, but the maximum damage, from what little I could find
about
the subject, seems to occur when you hit bottom.

It'd be cheaper and easier to outfit the fall-prone person with an
airbag vest, like the ones made for motorcyclists and horseback riders:

http://www.bikebone.com/page/BBSC/CTGY/AT

Basically, it has a built-in airbag with cervical neck support.
There's a lanyard running from the jacket or vest that the rider
attaches to the saddle. A gentle pull won't deploy the airbag, but a
sudden jerk will. When the person is thrown from the saddle, the
airbag deploys and the person skids/tumbles on the bag.

In either scenario, the challenge is figuring out how to trigger the
airbag when needed. Perhaps a built-in accelerometer. They use those
in laptops, to detect sudden motion (suggesting it will fall to the
ground). It tells the computer to temporarily shut down the hard drive
to protect it from the imminent shock.

Those are some pretty cool ideas. Since my friend said it took him close to
three years to get his dad to wear "that stupid thingamagig" (pendant) hopes
are not high for getting him to wear a "StaPuff Marshmellow Suit." (-: My
friend said that even though this his is third serious fall, his dad still
does not think of himself as "fall prone."

The horseback suit sounds really interesting and, AFAIK, fulfills a real
need. The actor who accident. I've seen a horrific film of a horseback
accident in slow motion once. It still freaks me to remember seeing someone
with their head at an angle unknown among the living. The actor that played
Superman, Christopher Reeves, ended up paralyzed from the neck down in a
horse riding accident. Every time I watch America's Funniest Home Videos I
cringe because so many of the films they send in are so similar to
evidentiary films submitted in wrongful death suits. Some of those "cute"
old people fall down and kids skateboarding off railings films could have
been tragedies except for an inch or two one way or another. Who would have
thought an adult could get paralyzed from playing with a slip and slide (or
that the family would have film of it)?

People riding horses very often land head first with lots of momentum in
their bodies that can snap the spine near the neck, causing instant death or
severe paralysis. I'd put lots of velcro on the saddle and my butt if I were
still riding. (-: There's just not a lot of protection when riding a
horse. I'm glad to know that someone's tried to tackle the problem.

Thanks for your input!

--
Bobby G.

On 9/13/2011 6:27 PM, Robert Green wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 9/13/2011 2:00 PM, Robert Green wrote:

stuff snipped

I'm thinking if you live alone, one of those "Help, I've fallen and I
can't get up" panic buttons is a good idea. Think they cost about
$30/month and have the receiver on your phone line. In this case he
could have sent for help when stranded in the lift.

All kinds of things could happen besides the situation you describe.
If my father had had one, his stroke may not have put him in a nursing
home as it went unnoticed for several hours and immediate treatment
could have prevented his dementia. I know of someone else that used it
when a burglar broke into their house.

Ironically, he had one of those pendants but didn't use it when the lift
failed because he didn't want the fire department coming and axing down his
front door!!! Go figure. He's probably alive for having one because once
he was crumpled up at the bottom of the stairs, he didn't care so much about
the door (which turned out to be unlocked).

Sorry to hear about your dad. From what I know, he's not alone in having
that happen. Plenty of stroke victims living alone aren't discovered until
they are dead. Living alone gets to be dangerous as you get older. I've
had some nasty spills, so did both my parents when they were still alive.
My wife's first husband banged his head after falling off a ladder and was
never the same afterward. His loss, my gain. (-:

--
Bobby G.



Good grief! The gadget ideas are generous, but it is time to face
it...the elderly gentleman should not have stairs navigate if he cannot
do it safely! Either needs to have more suitable living arrangement or
consider assisted living facility. If he is anything like elders I have
known, he would fight it kicking and screaming....it is time to at least
have the conversation, especially if there is no family close at hand.
The argument, with elders I have known, is "I don't want to give up my
independence", but they actually have a great deal more security and
freedom in assisted living. I've known elders who, on their death bed,
would not let their driver's license lapse; being that tough and ornery
is probably, in part, why they lived very long lives )

"Norminn" wrote in message

stuff snipped

Good grief! The gadget ideas are generous, but it is time to face
it...the elderly gentleman should not have stairs navigate if he cannot
do it safely! Either needs to have more suitable living arrangement or
consider assisted living facility. If he is anything like elders I have
known, he would fight it kicking and screaming....

And spitting blood. He's made it clear he wants to die where is he.
Repeatedly. And loudly!

it is time to at least
have the conversation, especially if there is no family close at hand.

Everyone in the family is in agreement - except for the subject of those
talks. This is one of those very obstinate people. He only agreed to wear
the pendant after spending several hours on the kitchen floor when his new
artificial hip gave way. He's apparently got one of the hips that's been
recalled but he has no interest in getting it replaced. He's 81 and his son
says he's ready to die and he wants to do it at home, not in assisted
living.

The argument, with elders I have known, is "I don't want to give up my
independence", but they actually have a great deal more security and
freedom in assisted living. I've known elders who, on their death bed,
would not let their driver's license lapse; being that tough and ornery
is probably, in part, why they lived very long lives )

He did just give up his car (setting off a minor family feud) to his
daughter but only after his insurers sent him a letter saying he had "much
more than the typical amount of claims" (which set him off no end, so his
son says).

I tend to agree that he should be restricted to one floor (now he is because
he's so banged up). His son now feels that getting the lift was the wrong
thing to do and that this event should have been predictable. The lift
company says the chair stopped because the railing installation was not not
properly done by a company approved vendor (it was not - it came used). I
tend to agree because while some supports were attached to studs, others
were anchored with plastic anchors according to what I've been told. But
that's without seeing the actual installation or seeing any pictures. I
just think anchoring something like that to wallboard at all is a bad idea.
The installer has since gone bankrupt (this is out in Fresno, CA) so there's
no recourse there. )-:

For me, this serves as a reminder that sometimes good intentions have a way
of working out badly. The next thing planned is to keep him on floor one
and to get a housekeeper to live on the deserted second floor. This is a
guy who's lived alone for over 20 years. I'm guessing he will like the idea
of a roommate as much as he likes assisted living.

--
Bobby G.

On 9/13/2011 6:27 PM, Robert Green wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 9/13/2011 2:00 PM, Robert Green wrote:

stuff snipped

I'm thinking if you live alone, one of those "Help, I've fallen and I
can't get up" panic buttons is a good idea. Think they cost about
$30/month and have the receiver on your phone line. In this case he
could have sent for help when stranded in the lift.

All kinds of things could happen besides the situation you describe.
If my father had had one, his stroke may not have put him in a nursing
home as it went unnoticed for several hours and immediate treatment
could have prevented his dementia. I know of someone else that used it
when a burglar broke into their house.

Ironically, he had one of those pendants but didn't use it when the lift
failed because he didn't want the fire department coming and axing down his
front door!!! Go figure. He's probably alive for having one because once
he was crumpled up at the bottom of the stairs, he didn't care so much about
the door (which turned out to be unlocked).

Sorry to hear about your dad. From what I know, he's not alone in having
that happen. Plenty of stroke victims living alone aren't discovered until
they are dead. Living alone gets to be dangerous as you get older. I've
had some nasty spills, so did both my parents when they were still alive.
My wife's first husband banged his head after falling off a ladder and was
never the same afterward. His loss, my gain. (-:

--
Bobby G.


Happened about 15 years ago and he spent 5 years in nursing home before
dying at age 88. Neighbor in apartment beneath his had heard him
thumping the floor and called police. We figure he was without help for
maybe 3 hours. Physically he recovered completely but his mind did not.
The faster they can get to a stroke victim, 90% or so are due to blood
clots, they can administer anticoagulants and stop the progressive brain
damage.

Similar situation with a neighbor who was a pretty vigorous 70 year old
but had a stroke and while he was living with wife, she was out all day.
He was in rehab for 6 months and is now in a wheel chair.

I'm getting old too and figure I've fallen 6 times in last year. One on
ice, I sprained my wrist and apparently chipped a bone that I did not
know about. Found out after 2nd fall where I sprained my thumb and xray
showed older break. Wife even got one on her flip cam while I was using
snow thrower. She wanted me to put it on u-tube.

I always carry cell phone when I'm off the beaten path as the other
three falls were in the woods where no one else was around.

"Frank" wrote in message
news:j4or2c$c80$1@dont-
On 9/13/2011 6:27 PM, Robert Green wrote:

stuff snipped

Sorry to hear about your dad. From what I know, he's not alone in
having
that happen. Plenty of stroke victims living alone aren't discovered
until
they are dead. Living alone gets to be dangerous as you get older.
I've
had some nasty spills, so did both my parents when they were still
alive.
My wife's first husband banged his head after falling off a ladder and
was
never the same afterward. His loss, my gain. (-:

--
Bobby G.


Happened about 15 years ago and he spent 5 years in nursing home before
dying at age 88. Neighbor in apartment beneath his had heard him
thumping the floor and called police. We figure he was without help for
maybe 3 hours. Physically he recovered completely but his mind did not.
The faster they can get to a stroke victim, 90% or so are due to blood
clots, they can administer anticoagulants and stop the progressive brain
damage.

That's so tragic. And so unnecessary with today's technology.

Similar situation with a neighbor who was a pretty vigorous 70 year old
but had a stroke and while he was living with wife, she was out all day.
He was in rehab for 6 months and is now in a wheel chair.

I know strokes are in the family history and one is on the horizon for me if
the other things wrong with me haven't done me in by then.

I'm getting old too and figure I've fallen 6 times in last year. One on
ice, I sprained my wrist and apparently chipped a bone that I did not
know about. Found out after 2nd fall where I sprained my thumb and xray
showed older break. Wife even got one on her flip cam while I was using
snow thrower. She wanted me to put it on u-tube.

Dude, you need gyroscopic stabilizers! (-: Your story reminds me of the
first time someone X-rayed Babe Ruth's hand. They found dozens of fractures
that had never been reported. As I get older I find myself continuously
re-evaluating what I can handle safely. As such, my world gets a little
smaller and more limited each day.

I always carry cell phone when I'm off the beaten path as the other
three falls were in the woods where no one else was around.

I now wear cargo pants all the time and make sure that there's a prepaid but
unactivated cell phone in my pocket (Fry's was selling them for $7 each at
one point). Since the FCC mandates that emergency calls must be put through
no matter what the billing status of the phone, I figure it's a small price
to pay for having something that I can reach 911 with. I found out the hard
way that once you activate them, they drain money way faster than battery
power. )-; "Pay only for the calls you make" they say. Liars. The newer
phones and batteries will go almost a year without needing a recharge if
they're not turned on.

--
Bobby G.

Robert Green wrote:
So here's the question. Has anyone ever seen or even thought about
designing a home-brewed "safe" stairway? I've been thinking about a
collection of airbags (or one superlarge one) at the bottom of the
stairs, triggered by some sort of detector circuit that could detect
a human falling down the stairs faster than normal walking.

Rather than airbags, quickly deploying nets might be simpler. Imagine channels
on each side perpendicular to the slope of the stairs with wheels in it attached
to the net, which could be pulled from above with cables or pushed from below
with spring loaded rods. The net could be concealed in the stair risers.

Robert Green wrote:


I know strokes are in the family history and one is on the horizon
for me if the other things wrong with me haven't done me in by then.

I'm getting old too and figure I've fallen 6 times in last year.
One on ice, I sprained my wrist and apparently chipped a bone that I
did not know about. Found out after 2nd fall where I sprained my
thumb and xray showed older break. Wife even got one on her flip
cam while I was using snow thrower. She wanted me to put it on
u-tube.

At 62, I fell sevaral times last winter, but didn't get hurt other than a sore
back for a few weeks. But that is the advantage of falling while snowboarding.
It's softer.

I now wear cargo pants all the time and make sure that there's a
prepaid but unactivated cell phone in my pocket (Fry's was selling
them for $7 each at one point). Since the FCC mandates that
emergency calls must be put through no matter what the billing status
of the phone, I figure it's a small price to pay for having something
that I can reach 911 with. I found out the hard way that once you
activate them, they drain money way faster than battery power. )-;
"Pay only for the calls you make" they say. Liars. The newer phones
and batteries will go almost a year without needing a recharge if
they're not turned on.

I picked up a used one at a yard sale maybe 10 years ago. I charge it every few
years, just in case. It always seems to work when I check it. It's in the car
just in case. I used it twice, when my car died on raised areas of the freeway.

On 9/13/2011 8:56 PM, Bob F wrote:
Robert Green wrote:


I know strokes are in the family history and one is on the horizon
for me if the other things wrong with me haven't done me in by then.

I'm getting old too and figure I've fallen 6 times in last year.
One on ice, I sprained my wrist and apparently chipped a bone that I
did not know about. Found out after 2nd fall where I sprained my
thumb and xray showed older break. Wife even got one on her flip
cam while I was using snow thrower. She wanted me to put it on
u-tube.

At 62, I fell sevaral times last winter, but didn't get hurt other than a sore
back for a few weeks. But that is the advantage of falling while snowboarding.
It's softer.

I now wear cargo pants all the time and make sure that there's a
prepaid but unactivated cell phone in my pocket (Fry's was selling
them for $7 each at one point). Since the FCC mandates that
emergency calls must be put through no matter what the billing status
of the phone, I figure it's a small price to pay for having something
that I can reach 911 with. I found out the hard way that once you
activate them, they drain money way faster than battery power. )-;
"Pay only for the calls you make" they say. Liars. The newer phones
and batteries will go almost a year without needing a recharge if
they're not turned on.

I picked up a used one at a yard sale maybe 10 years ago. I charge it every few
years, just in case. It always seems to work when I check it. It's in the car
just in case. I used it twice, when my car died on raised areas of the freeway.



Best replace it soon. 10 YO means analog, most likely, and even if your
area still supports analog, it won't for long. Just for the sake of a
young battery, I'd splurge and spend 10-15 bucks on a pre-paid candy-bar
phone. Don't bunch the buttons to activate it, just cut it out of the
blister pack, put it in a baggie along with the activation card, and
throw that in the glove box.

--
aem sends...

On 9/13/2011 7:49 PM, Robert Green wrote:
(snip)

For me, this serves as a reminder that sometimes good intentions have a way
of working out badly. The next thing planned is to keep him on floor one
and to get a housekeeper to live on the deserted second floor. This is a
guy who's lived alone for over 20 years. I'm guessing he will like the idea
of a roommate as much as he likes assisted living.

--
Bobby G.



I think most of us on the wrong side of 50 can relate, with grandparents
or parents. The role reversal is hard on both sides of the table.

Is a first-floor remodel a viable solution? Convert part of first floor
space to an elderly-friendly bedroom and attached special-needs
bathroom? (rails, 'comfort height' w.c., phone mounted on wall
accessible from floor level, etc.)

But yeah, one-story housing is the best solution. If the house is paid
for, maybe renting it out would cover the cost of the other housing, and
avoid some of the 'letting go' trauma.

--
aem sends...

I've
had some nasty spills, so did both my parents when they were still alive.
My wife's first husband banged his head after falling off a ladder and was
never the same afterward. His loss, my gain. (-:

--
Bobby G.

Mary goes to visit her friend, Rhonda. Every time Rhonda's husband comes
into the room, or she speaks to him, she calls him Honey, Sweetheart,
Darling, or some other term of intimate endearment. Mary finally asks
Rhonda how she and her husband keep the spark of romance so alive so and so
apparent. Mary says, "It's not that. Most of the time I just can't
remember the old *******'s name."

I had a two year recovery from a traumatic brain injury, and some things
never got right.

Steve

"Norminn" wrote

Good grief! The gadget ideas are generous, but it is time to face
it...the elderly gentleman should not have stairs navigate if he cannot do
it safely! Either needs to have more suitable living arrangement or
consider assisted living facility.

I am 62, and in reasonably good health for the shape I'm in. I am in better
health than some people I know my own age and younger. Were I to have to
buy another house, I would NEVER even look at one that had more than three
steps on a stair. Sooner or later, you're going to do a half gainer.

Steve

On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 14:00:37 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

A good friend of mine bought and installed one of the stairway lifts you see
on TV ads in his dad's house. His dad had serious hip problems that an
artificial hip did not make better. So his dad had basically stopped going
upstairs or downstairs. So his son bought the lift. Things actually went
kind of OK for two years until just recently when the chair stopped midpoint
and his dad got out to descend the stair manually. Well, that didn't work
out so well because he ended up at the bottom of the stairs, pretty badly
banged up from a relatively short fall.

I was told that people who have accidents on steps need to work the 12
Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous. When they finish them, they are
experienced enough to handle any steps.

For me, this serves as a reminder that sometimes good intentions have a
way
of working out badly. The next thing planned is to keep him on floor one
and to get a housekeeper to live on the deserted second floor. This is a
guy who's lived alone for over 20 years. I'm guessing he will like the
idea
of a roommate as much as he likes assisted living.
Bobby G.

Recently, one of our church members came to us and asked if we had any
living accommodations to rent, or knew of any. She was in a tight spot with
the current economy. We have an older friend named Charlie. He lives alone
in a two story house with a full basement. We introduced the two. Charlie
needs help some times, and is on the verge of losing his driving license or
killing someone. He's been alone for a long time. He's been wanting to
move his sister out here, as she is infirm, and he wanted to care for her,
but couldn't as he can barely take care of Charlie.

Cathy moved in a couple of months ago, and so far, they are doing fine.
Cathy has a fine third floor home with a fantastic view and low rent.
Charlie has a new cook that cooks all the things he likes, and is off frozen
entrees and canned everything.

You never know how the arrangement will work out. Charlie is from Arkansas,
and Cathy is from northern Louisiana, which is right next door. They even
knew a couple of the same people back home. They both like to play cards,
and like to watch football. She drives, and Charlie has commented on a lot
of things he didn't see when driving the same road.

All you can do is hope for the best. It might turn out better than
expected. He's now considering moving his sister out here, as they both
would have help.

Steve

On Sep 13, 7:00*pm, "Robert Green" wrote:
A good friend of mine bought and installed one of the stairway lifts you see
on TV ads in his dad's house. *His dad had serious hip problems that an
artificial hip did not make better. *So his dad had basically stopped going
upstairs or downstairs. *So his son bought the lift. *Things actually went
kind of OK for two years until just recently when the chair stopped midpoint
and his dad got out to descend the stair manually. *Well, that didn't work
out so well because he ended up at the bottom of the stairs, pretty badly
banged up from a relatively short fall.

So here's the question. *Has anyone ever seen or even thought about
designing a home-brewed "safe" stairway? *I've been thinking about a
collection of airbags (or one superlarge one) at the bottom of the stairs,
triggered by some sort of detector circuit that could detect a human falling
down the stairs faster than normal walking. *You might still get banged up
pretty badly, but the maximum damage, from what little I could find about
the subject, seems to occur when you hit bottom.

I figure if my cheap little Mayflower GPS system can tell me "You're
speeding" that detecting a mass falling down a stairway is entirely
"doable." *(-:

I assume this is going to be costly. *However my friend assures me that this
has already been a very costly spill for him (he's taken off work and flown
out to take care of his dad while he recovers - and he feels kind of guilty
for getting the stair lift to begin with).

I know that the leading cause of accidental death in the home environment is
from stairway falls. *If a $10K device saves a life (especially mine!) than
I might be willing to pay that.

--
Bobby G.

The simple answer is to move to a single floor house.

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...
On 9/13/2011 7:49 PM, Robert Green wrote:
(snip)

I think most of us on the wrong side of 50 can relate, with grandparents
or parents. The role reversal is hard on both sides of the table.

Hey, we're on the *better* side of 50. No one tells us what to do anymore.
We have enough money to do what we want (worked hard, lived well under our
means) but we're too afraid to spend it on the off chance we live to be 100
years old. Hey, it could happen. They could discover a pill for eternal
life when I am 90 and I can spend eternity drooling in a walker. But all
kidding aside, I agree. The role reversal causes lots of heartaches.

Is a first-floor remodel a viable solution? Convert part of first floor
space to an elderly-friendly bedroom and attached special-needs
bathroom? (rails, 'comfort height' w.c., phone mounted on wall
accessible from floor level, etc.)

Before they got him the stair lift he was living 24 x 7 in a lounger in the
living room. I think he was basically happy that way but it bothered his
kids a lot, especially when they came to visit. So I think that his son
really thought he was doing something nice but it just didn't work out that
way. The only thing upstairs he really used was his computer. I suggested
a long time ago that they just move it downstairs and hook it up to the huge
LCD TV they bought him.

But yeah, one-story housing is the best solution. If the house is paid
for, maybe renting it out would cover the cost of the other housing, and
avoid some of the 'letting go' trauma.

I get the feeling that he's just going to go back to living in the living
room and foresaking the upper floor for visitors. I suspect, from what I am
told, that dementia is starting to take hold because his son says he gets
very angry when they suggest anything that's a change to his routine. It
also runs in the family. His father told him of how he had to constantly
wash up his demented, incontinent dad until age 88.

I know from my own father's descent into Alzheimer's that change really
frightened and angered him. A housekeeper would be a great idea, but it's a
non-starter. He expects his daughter (who has her own job, family and kids)
to shop for him twice a week and isn't shy about complaining to her when she
misses an item or buys the wrong flavor. He's been married twice so there
are two sets of kids to deal with, too. The kids from the first family have
talked about being "abandoned" for his newer family. It's a rough, rough
situation.

I know he's been very generous to his kids, sending them on multi-thousand
dollar vacations every year so his daughter (who lives near his house) does
it without complaint (to him) but when I talk to her, she jokes about how
hard it is to make him happy and that he would be better served by a
housekeeper. I'm trying to stay on the sidelines, and as my wife often says
that as a typical male, I propose engineering solutions to inherently social
problems. Guilty as charged. She taught me a long time ago that women very
often don't want solutions as much as they want discussion and
acknowledgement of the things that are bothering them.

--
Bobby G.

On 9/13/2011 8:48 PM, Bob F wrote:
Robert Green wrote:
So here's the question. Has anyone ever seen or even thought about
designing a home-brewed "safe" stairway? I've been thinking about a
collection of airbags (or one superlarge one) at the bottom of the
stairs, triggered by some sort of detector circuit that could detect
a human falling down the stairs faster than normal walking.

Rather than airbags, quickly deploying nets might be simpler. Imagine channels
on each side perpendicular to the slope of the stairs with wheels in it attached
to the net, which could be pulled from above with cables or pushed from below
with spring loaded rods. The net could be concealed in the stair risers.



I'm having trouble believing this conversation is going on .. a nice
soft landing is peachy keen to think about. A falling body isn't going
to "aim" for safety and whatever it hits first will hurt most.

Might be safer, if the person can walk with support, to install another
rail so that he has support on both sides (like using a walker); could
have some sort of rig so that the extra rail lifts away to allow normal
access on the stairs.

In addition, secure flooring, good lighting, etc are important. Does
the man have daily calls from family to check on him? Red Cross used to
do that, summon cops if no response.

"Steve B" wrote in message news:1RWbq.439455

stuff snipped

The next thing planned is to keep him on floor one
and to get a housekeeper to live on the deserted second floor. This is
a
guy who's lived alone for over 20 years. I'm guessing he will like the
idea of a roommate as much as he likes assisted living.

Recently, one of our church members came to us and asked if we had any
living accommodations to rent, or knew of any. She was in a tight spot
with
the current economy.

An awful lot of people are. Our neighborhood has a fairly large number of
"boomerang" children who have returned to the nest. Housing prices in the
DC area have been relatively safe from the horrible drop in values seen in
CA, AZ and FL. The downside is that lots of people can't afford the rents
that are charged in the area. My poor neighbor who's almost 60 had TWO of
her kids return (she raised three without a husband). She just broke her
leg tripping over a toy left on the stairs by her grandson. We were talking
outside the other day and she confided: "This was supposed to be MY time."
The kids are depressed because they go on job interview after interview and
never even get a callback.

We have an older friend named Charlie. He lives alone
in a two story house with a full basement. We introduced the two.
Charlie
needs help some times, and is on the verge of losing his driving license
or
killing someone.

Our local TV station set up a camera on the Beltway to film people in their
cars - tapping on their Blackberries, applying make-up, doing the crossword
puzzle, eating, drinking, futzing with CD players, GPS units and more. The
rarity was actually someone with hands at ten and two, paying attention.
But driving, especially for elderly people, represents freedom and they are
very reluctant to give up their cars. My mom insisted on driving until a
few months before she died, and she was legally blind in one eye! As she
got older, her trips got shorter and shorter, though and she basically
wouldn't drive on any road where the speed limit was over 30.

He's been alone for a long time. He's been wanting to
move his sister out here, as she is infirm, and he wanted to care for her,
but couldn't as he can barely take care of Charlie.

It's interesting because I think part of the problem is that my friend's
dad's got enough money to do what he wants. If he was under financial
pressure, he'd probably gravitate to a similar situation/solution. It may
be forced on him if he does not recover well. He may now have to finally
have his bad artificial hip yanked and replaced if the damage proves severe,
and that's serious bedrest time. I figure if he gets used to home-cooked
meals, laundry service and general assistance he might never want to let it
go. His daughter is fortunate in having a flexible job so she can take off
work to drive him to his endless medical appointments but that could always
change but I can tell it stresses her out and she feels she's doing way more
than the two sons who live in Southern Cal.

Cathy moved in a couple of months ago, and so far, they are doing fine.
Cathy has a fine third floor home with a fantastic view and low rent.
Charlie has a new cook that cooks all the things he likes, and is off
frozen
entrees and canned everything.

That's true symbiosis! From what I've read about seniors living alone,
they'll both enjoy longer lifespans because they're not alone. Especially
if someone has a fall or some other serious problem.

You never know how the arrangement will work out. Charlie is from
Arkansas,
and Cathy is from northern Louisiana, which is right next door. They even
knew a couple of the same people back home. They both like to play cards,
and like to watch football. She drives, and Charlie has commented on a
lot
of things he didn't see when driving the same road.

Sounds remarkably symbiotic. Sadly, one of the things that happens with old
age, at least in some people, is they become paranoid and distrustful of
strangers. I'll be sure to mention your experience to his son because they
are really bent of shape by this most recent fall. I think that the
relationship you describe would be ideal. He's got a really nice house, a
modern kitchen and an empty garage since his insurance company politely
suggested he should stop driving. There has to be someone who'd be willing
to trade housekeeping for rents that typically run $2000 for a house and
$500 for a room.

All you can do is hope for the best. It might turn out better than
expected. He's now considering moving his sister out here, as they both
would have help.

That sounds like a great solution. Sometimes, in adversity, a light shines
through. This story shows that even beyond religion, churches serve an
important social purpose.

Thanks for your input!

--
Bobby G.

"Steve B" wrote in message news:_aWbq.39502

I've
had some nasty spills, so did both my parents when they were still
alive.
My wife's first husband banged his head after falling off a ladder and
was
never the same afterward. His loss, my gain. (-:

--
Bobby G.

Mary goes to visit her friend, Rhonda. Every time Rhonda's husband comes
into the room, or she speaks to him, she calls him Honey, Sweetheart,
Darling, or some other term of intimate endearment. Mary finally asks
Rhonda how she and her husband keep the spark of romance so alive so and
so
apparent. Mary says, "It's not that. Most of the time I just can't
remember the old *******'s name."

Reminds me a little of the Peter Sellers gag when someone sees him next to a
little dog and asks: "Does your dog bite?" and he replies "no." Seconds
later the dog latches on and the man screams "I thought you said he didn't
bite?" "That's not my dog."

I had a two year recovery from a traumatic brain injury, and some things
never got right.

Wow. That's tough. Sorry to hear about it. Going through early stages of
Alzheimer's myself and am encountering very weird things like the melding of
memories and not being able to remember whether I did something or not.
Fortunately the net's offered about a zillion coping strategies and some of
them actually work. Not sure if I'll get to the point where Post-it notes,
voice recorders, phone call logs, talking timers, talking pill boxes and a
wife who can remember every bad word I've ever said don't help anymore.
Today I found last quarter's estimated tax payments in a folder with stamped
envelopes that I was sure I mailed and didn't.

Stuff like that really burns me because the truth has become fuzzy. I
probably remember a previous mailing of the checks and it's leaking over
into medium term memory. Next step is to wear a helmet cam that films me
doing things I am likely to forget I've done. Unfortunately, most of the
problems come from things I *haven't* done or thought I did.

I'm going to try to get on a new test protocol where they use an insulin
nose spray to retard the progress of Alzheimer's (we call it Oldtimers
disease around here). I'm hoping even if I don't get in, I can find an MD
to prescribe it for diabetes and run a test myself. My wife thinks I am
crazy to even try it but she's not the one that can forget the names of
friends and family members on too many occasions. I *know* she would try it
if somehow she starting gaining 10 pounds a month.

--
Bobby G.

On 9/13/2011 8:30 PM, Robert Green wrote:
wrote in message
news:j4or2c$c80$1@dont-
On 9/13/2011 6:27 PM, Robert Green wrote:

stuff snipped

Sorry to hear about your dad. From what I know, he's not alone in
having
that happen. Plenty of stroke victims living alone aren't discovered
until
they are dead. Living alone gets to be dangerous as you get older.
I've
had some nasty spills, so did both my parents when they were still
alive.
My wife's first husband banged his head after falling off a ladder and
was
never the same afterward. His loss, my gain. (-:

--
Bobby G.


Happened about 15 years ago and he spent 5 years in nursing home before
dying at age 88. Neighbor in apartment beneath his had heard him
thumping the floor and called police. We figure he was without help for
maybe 3 hours. Physically he recovered completely but his mind did not.
The faster they can get to a stroke victim, 90% or so are due to blood
clots, they can administer anticoagulants and stop the progressive brain
damage.

That's so tragic. And so unnecessary with today's technology.

Similar situation with a neighbor who was a pretty vigorous 70 year old
but had a stroke and while he was living with wife, she was out all day.
He was in rehab for 6 months and is now in a wheel chair.

I know strokes are in the family history and one is on the horizon for me if
the other things wrong with me haven't done me in by then.

I'm getting old too and figure I've fallen 6 times in last year. One on
ice, I sprained my wrist and apparently chipped a bone that I did not
know about. Found out after 2nd fall where I sprained my thumb and xray
showed older break. Wife even got one on her flip cam while I was using
snow thrower. She wanted me to put it on u-tube.

Dude, you need gyroscopic stabilizers! (-: Your story reminds me of the
first time someone X-rayed Babe Ruth's hand. They found dozens of fractures
that had never been reported. As I get older I find myself continuously
re-evaluating what I can handle safely. As such, my world gets a little
smaller and more limited each day.

I always carry cell phone when I'm off the beaten path as the other
three falls were in the woods where no one else was around.

I now wear cargo pants all the time and make sure that there's a prepaid but
unactivated cell phone in my pocket (Fry's was selling them for $7 each at
one point). Since the FCC mandates that emergency calls must be put through
no matter what the billing status of the phone, I figure it's a small price
to pay for having something that I can reach 911 with. I found out the hard
way that once you activate them, they drain money way faster than battery
power. )-; "Pay only for the calls you make" they say. Liars. The newer
phones and batteries will go almost a year without needing a recharge if
they're not turned on.

--
Bobby G.


Mine's a Tracfone I got from my wife when one of our sons put her on his
family plan. Prior to that, I'd just borrow hers. Older phone but works
great and costs $99/year for about 600 minutes to keep active. Minutes
roll over and I have enough to talk for 2 solid months 24/7.

Have cash? Elevator.

On 9/14/2011 5:47 AM, Robert Green wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 9/13/2011 7:49 PM, Robert Green wrote:
(snip)

I think most of us on the wrong side of 50 can relate, with grandparents
or parents. The role reversal is hard on both sides of the table.

Hey, we're on the *better* side of 50. No one tells us what to do anymore.
We have enough money to do what we want (worked hard, lived well under our
means) but we're too afraid to spend it on the off chance we live to be 100
years old. Hey, it could happen. They could discover a pill for eternal
life when I am 90 and I can spend eternity drooling in a walker. But all
kidding aside, I agree. The role reversal causes lots of heartaches.

Is a first-floor remodel a viable solution? Convert part of first floor
space to an elderly-friendly bedroom and attached special-needs
bathroom? (rails, 'comfort height' w.c., phone mounted on wall
accessible from floor level, etc.)

Before they got him the stair lift he was living 24 x 7 in a lounger in the
living room. I think he was basically happy that way but it bothered his
kids a lot, especially when they came to visit. So I think that his son
really thought he was doing something nice but it just didn't work out that
way. The only thing upstairs he really used was his computer. I suggested
a long time ago that they just move it downstairs and hook it up to the huge
LCD TV they bought him.

But yeah, one-story housing is the best solution. If the house is paid
for, maybe renting it out would cover the cost of the other housing, and
avoid some of the 'letting go' trauma.

I get the feeling that he's just going to go back to living in the living
room and foresaking the upper floor for visitors. I suspect, from what I am
told, that dementia is starting to take hold because his son says he gets
very angry when they suggest anything that's a change to his routine. It
also runs in the family. His father told him of how he had to constantly
wash up his demented, incontinent dad until age 88.

I know from my own father's descent into Alzheimer's that change really
frightened and angered him. A housekeeper would be a great idea, but it's a
non-starter. He expects his daughter (who has her own job, family and kids)
to shop for him twice a week and isn't shy about complaining to her when she
misses an item or buys the wrong flavor. He's been married twice so there
are two sets of kids to deal with, too. The kids from the first family have
talked about being "abandoned" for his newer family. It's a rough, rough
situation.

That's probably the stickiest part of the problem. There is nothing
wrong with him living in his living room, sleeping in a lounger, if he
is relatively comfortable, safe and clean. It would take some moxie,
but daughter might just hire someone to come in one day - or couple of
hours on weekdays - to fix meals (freeze some, etc.), clean, help with
whatever. I've dealt with stubborn elders, but the most valuable tool
was their trust - had one dear friend who passed at age 94. Her hubby
died when she was 88, and for remaining years she lived at home with a
live-in helper weekdays. Friend fell a couple of times, told me but not
her son...tricky to deal with, and I did share one event that I swore
him to not "know". Son would get rather excited and want her in a home,
so that is why she didn't want him to know. He trusted me also, because
he knew I'd tell him of anything he HAD to know. She had multiple
serious health issues for many years, but sharp as a tack. Best of
friends, as well.

If he can afford thousands for kids' vacations, he can probably afford
some household help. If one kid sacrifices a vacation for his good, it
might make a big difference.

The "we" and "they" between sets of children can be awful - have seen
families fight over pain medication for terminal patients in hospital,
and that ain't pretty.

I know he's been very generous to his kids, sending them on multi-thousand
dollar vacations every year so his daughter (who lives near his house) does
it without complaint (to him) but when I talk to her, she jokes about how
hard it is to make him happy and that he would be better served by a
Forget "happy" - it might make him happier to have someone grow some
balls and do what needs to be done.

housekeeper. I'm trying to stay on the sidelines, and as my wife often says
that as a typical male, I propose engineering solutions to inherently social
problems. Guilty as charged. She taught me a long time ago that women very
often don't want solutions as much as they want discussion and
acknowledgement of the things that are bothering them.

--
Bobby G.

Robert Green wrote:
"Frank" wrote in message
...
On 9/13/2011 2:00 PM, Robert Green wrote:

stuff snipped

I'm thinking if you live alone, one of those "Help, I've fallen and I
can't get up" panic buttons is a good idea. Think they cost about
$30/month and have the receiver on your phone line. In this case he
could have sent for help when stranded in the lift.

All kinds of things could happen besides the situation you describe.
If my father had had one, his stroke may not have put him in a nursing
home as it went unnoticed for several hours and immediate treatment
could have prevented his dementia. I know of someone else that used it
when a burglar broke into their house.

Ironically, he had one of those pendants but didn't use it when the lift
failed because he didn't want the fire department coming and axing down his
front door!!! Go figure. He's probably alive for having one because once
he was crumpled up at the bottom of the stairs, he didn't care so much about
the door (which turned out to be unlocked).

Sorry to hear about your dad. From what I know, he's not alone in having
that happen. Plenty of stroke victims living alone aren't discovered until
they are dead. Living alone gets to be dangerous as you get older. I've
had some nasty spills, so did both my parents when they were still alive.
My wife's first husband banged his head after falling off a ladder and was
never the same afterward. His loss, my gain. (-:

--
Bobby G.



Did you have to marry her to get the ladder?