my house has walls that are very thick and heavy. Cutting electrical
outlet holes and ceiling holes is very difficult. Using a saws all
with a big tooth demolition blade, I get maybe 20 inches before the
blade is flat. Ceramic blades are much worse. Am I doing it. Right?
I find finer tooth blades are worse.

Greg

On Sat, 28 May 2011 11:53:13 -0700 (PDT), zek wrote:

my house has walls that are very thick and heavy. Cutting electrical
outlet holes and ceiling holes is very difficult. Using a saws all
with a big tooth demolition blade, I get maybe 20 inches before the
blade is flat. Ceramic blades are much worse. Am I doing it. Right?
I find finer tooth blades are worse.

Let me guess; you live in Rockview State?

On May 28, 2:12*pm, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 28 May 2011 14:01:02 -0500, "

wrote:
On Sat, 28 May 2011 11:53:13 -0700 (PDT), zek wrote:

my house has walls that are very thick and heavy. Cutting electrical
outlet holes and ceiling holes is very difficult. Using a saws all
with a big tooth demolition blade, I get maybe 20 inches before the
blade is flat. Ceramic blades are much worse. Am I doing it. Right?
I find finer tooth blades are worse.

Let me guess; *you live in Rockview State?

Saw blades are a controlled tool item in Rockview State. Accounted for
on bin cards in the tool room.

Where is Rockview State, I've only heard of Stateville, in Joliet, IL

hr(bob) wrote the following:
On May 28, 2:12 pm, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 28 May 2011 14:01:02 -0500, "

wrote:

On Sat, 28 May 2011 11:53:13 -0700 (PDT), zek wrote:

my house has walls that are very thick and heavy. Cutting electrical
outlet holes and ceiling holes is very difficult. Using a saws all
with a big tooth demolition blade, I get maybe 20 inches before the
blade is flat. Ceramic blades are much worse. Am I doing it. Right?
I find finer tooth blades are worse.

Let me guess; you live in Rockview State?

Saw blades are a controlled tool item in Rockview State. Accounted for
on bin cards in the tool room.


Where is Rockview State, I've only heard of Stateville, in Joliet, IL

I believe he is talking about a prison, and you are trying to escape.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

willshak wrote the following:
hr(bob) wrote the following:
On May 28, 2:12 pm, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 28 May 2011 14:01:02 -0500, "

wrote:

On Sat, 28 May 2011 11:53:13 -0700 (PDT), zek
wrote:

my house has walls that are very thick and heavy. Cutting electrical
outlet holes and ceiling holes is very difficult. Using a saws all
with a big tooth demolition blade, I get maybe 20 inches before the
blade is flat. Ceramic blades are much worse. Am I doing it. Right?
I find finer tooth blades are worse.

Let me guess; you live in Rockview State?

Saw blades are a controlled tool item in Rockview State. Accounted for
on bin cards in the tool room.


Where is Rockview State, I've only heard of Stateville, in Joliet, IL

I believe he is talking about a prison, and you are trying to escape.

Ooops, you are not the OP, so it should be 'he is' trying to escape.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On May 28, 2:47*pm, willshak wrote:
hr(bob) wrote the following:



On May 28, 2:12 pm, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 28 May 2011 14:01:02 -0500, "

wrote:

On Sat, 28 May 2011 11:53:13 -0700 (PDT), zek wrote:

my house has walls that are very thick and heavy. Cutting electrical
outlet holes and ceiling holes is very difficult. Using a saws all
with a big tooth demolition blade, I get maybe 20 inches before the
blade is flat. Ceramic blades are much worse. Am I doing it. Right?
I find finer tooth blades are worse.

Let me guess; *you live in Rockview State?

Saw blades are a controlled tool item in Rockview State. Accounted for
on bin cards in the tool room.

Where is Rockview State, I've only heard of Stateville, in Joliet, IL

I believe he is talking about a prison, and you are trying to escape.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I got the escape part - I thought he might be refrring to a particular
prison, for example, Stateville in Joliet IL is widely known.

On May 28, 7:53*pm, zek wrote:
my house has walls that are very thick and heavy. Cutting electrical
outlet holes and ceiling holes is very difficult. Using a saws all
with a big tooth demolition blade, I get maybe 20 inches before the
blade is flat. Ceramic blades are much worse. Am I doing it. Right?
I find finer tooth blades are worse.

Greg

You would do better with a diamond disk in an angle grinder. Various
sizes available. Very dusty job though.
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Powe...des/d80/sd1450

zek wrote:
my house has walls that are very thick and heavy.

I assume that you probably won't write back but .....,

What are the walls made of? Is it an old house? Are the walls made of
plaster over wooden lath? Are they made of some other type of masonry
product?

Cutting electrical
outlet holes and ceiling holes is very difficult. Using a saws all
with a big tooth demolition blade, I get maybe 20 inches before the
blade is flat. Ceramic blades are much worse. Am I doing it. Right?
I find finer tooth blades are worse.

Greg

Oren wrote the following:
On Sat, 28 May 2011 12:51:55 -0700 (PDT), "hr(bob) "
wrote:


On May 28, 2:47 pm, willshak wrote:

hr(bob) wrote the following:




On May 28, 2:12 pm, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 28 May 2011 14:01:02 -0500, "

wrote:

On Sat, 28 May 2011 11:53:13 -0700 (PDT), zek wrote:

my house has walls that are very thick and heavy. Cutting electrical
outlet holes and ceiling holes is very difficult. Using a saws all
with a big tooth demolition blade, I get maybe 20 inches before the
blade is flat. Ceramic blades are much worse. Am I doing it. Right?
I find finer tooth blades are worse.

Let me guess; you live in Rockview State?

Saw blades are a controlled tool item in Rockview State. Accounted for
on bin cards in the tool room.

Where is Rockview State, I've only heard of Stateville, in Joliet, IL

I believe he is talking about a prison, and you are trying to escape.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I got the escape part - I thought he might be refrring to a particular
prison, for example, Stateville in Joliet IL is widely known.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Correctional_Institution_-_Rockview

There is also a Rockville prison in Rockville, Indiana. It is for women.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On May 28, 3:55*pm, "RogerT" wrote:
zek wrote:
my house has walls that are very thick and heavy.

I assume that you probably won't write back but .....,

What are the walls made of? *Is it an old house? *Are the walls made of
plaster over wooden lath? *Are they made of some other type of masonry
product?



Cutting electrical
outlet holes and ceiling holes is very difficult. Using a saws all
with a big tooth demolition blade, I get maybe 20 inches before the
blade is flat. Ceramic blades are much worse. Am I doing it. Right?
I find finer tooth blades are worse.

Greg

Some kind of double layer material maybe plaster. The inner layer is
very gritty like sand.

I was cutting cement and cinder block with a dry diamond blade. I know
all about dust.

Greg

On Sat, 28 May 2011 12:55:00 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On May 28, 7:53Â*pm, zek wrote:
my house has walls that are very thick and heavy. Cutting electrical
outlet holes and ceiling holes is very difficult. Using a saws all
with a big tooth demolition blade, I get maybe 20 inches before the
blade is flat. Ceramic blades are much worse. Am I doing it. Right?
I find finer tooth blades are worse.

Greg

You would do better with a diamond disk in an angle grinder. Various
sizes available. Very dusty job though.
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Powe...des/d80/sd1450

Even carbide blades will do it, but as you say, dusty as all get out.
You could do that and square the corners with the sawzall.
Personally, having cut pavers with circular blades, I'd rather just
buy more sawzall blades and live with that.
Maybe zek should try different blades.
Maybe these.
http://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-49-2...owViewpoints=1

--Vic

zek wrote:
On May 28, 3:55 pm, "RogerT" wrote:
zek wrote:
my house has walls that are very thick and heavy.

I assume that you probably won't write back but .....,

What are the walls made of? Is it an old house? Are the walls made of
plaster over wooden lath? Are they made of some other type of masonry
product?

Some kind of double layer material maybe plaster. The inner layer is
very gritty like sand.

I was cutting cement and cinder block with a dry diamond blade. I know
all about dust.

Greg

Thanks. Sounds like they are plaster walls -- a thinner layer of white
finish plaster over top of a thicker layer of gray or light brown
sandy/gritty "rough coat" plaster.

Under that, attached to the rough coat plaster, should be either wood laths
or maybe a metal lath/mesh.

If it is wood lath underneath, the saw blades will last longer but it's a
real pain using a sawzall because the wood laths vibrate back and forth and
break up the plaster pretty far around the outlet hole you are trying to
create. If it is wood lath, my guess is that the plaster is destroying the
demo blades because they are mostly made to cut wood.

If you happen to have metal lath under the plaster, the metal will kill the
sawzall blades faster.

I have found that cutting outlet holes in lath and plaster walls is a real
challenge. If there is wood lath underneath, sometimes you can use the
angle grinder that someone suggested, or even one of those vibrating Dremel
tools, to cut just the plaster and break it out down to the wood lath. Then
use a small saw (even a hand saw for cutting drywall) to carefully cut off
the wood laths while holding each lath so it doesn't vibrate back and forth
while you cut it.

On Sat, 28 May 2011 12:27:39 -0700 (PDT), "hr(bob) "
wrote:

On May 28, 2:12*pm, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 28 May 2011 14:01:02 -0500, "

wrote:
On Sat, 28 May 2011 11:53:13 -0700 (PDT), zek wrote:

my house has walls that are very thick and heavy. Cutting electrical
outlet holes and ceiling holes is very difficult. Using a saws all
with a big tooth demolition blade, I get maybe 20 inches before the
blade is flat. Ceramic blades are much worse. Am I doing it. Right?
I find finer tooth blades are worse.

Let me guess; *you live in Rockview State?

Saw blades are a controlled tool item in Rockview State. Accounted for
on bin cards in the tool room.

Where is Rockview State, I've only heard of Stateville, in Joliet, IL

He's in PA. If he were trying to escape from Stateville, he wouldn't be
asking now. ;-)

"zek" wrote in message
...
my house has walls that are very thick and heavy. Cutting electrical
outlet holes and ceiling holes is very difficult. Using a saws all
with a big tooth demolition blade, I get maybe 20 inches before the
blade is flat. Ceramic blades are much worse. Am I doing it. Right?
I find finer tooth blades are worse.

Greg

What is the material that you're cutting? Other than outlet boxes, what are
you cutting on the ceiling?

On May 28, 6:13*pm, "RBM" wrote:
"zek" wrote in message

...

my house has walls that are very thick and heavy. Cutting electrical
outlet holes and ceiling holes is very difficult. Using a saws all
with a big tooth demolition blade, I get maybe 20 inches before the
blade is flat. Ceramic blades are much worse. Am I doing it. Right?
I find finer tooth blades are worse.

Greg

What is the material that you're cutting? Other than outlet boxes, what are
you cutting on the ceiling?

I have cut ceiling recessed lights and an attic entrance. The round
holes need a smaller blade which goes bad fast, there is no lath or
metal or wood. I'll see if I have a piece to take a photo.

Greg

"zek" wrote in message
...
On May 28, 6:13 pm, "RBM" wrote:
"zek" wrote in message

...

my house has walls that are very thick and heavy. Cutting electrical
outlet holes and ceiling holes is very difficult. Using a saws all
with a big tooth demolition blade, I get maybe 20 inches before the
blade is flat. Ceramic blades are much worse. Am I doing it. Right?
I find finer tooth blades are worse.

Greg

What is the material that you're cutting? Other than outlet boxes, what
are
you cutting on the ceiling?

I have cut ceiling recessed lights and an attic entrance. The round
holes need a smaller blade which goes bad fast, there is no lath or
metal or wood. I'll see if I have a piece to take a photo.

Greg

I think what you have, is rock lath plaster, it's like a layer of 1/2"
sheetrock with holes in it, that's plastered over. The plaster keys into the
holes. It winds up about an inch thick, and is often very hard. I usually
cut outlet holes in that with a hand keyhole saw. It's work, but you're
getting a clean rectangle with no big chips. For the recessed lights, Lenox
makes carbide hole saws that work great. The only down side is the dust. I
cut a basketball in half, and drill a hole in the center of one half, slide
it over the hole saw, which helps to trap the dust and plaster particles.

On May 28, 6:31*pm, "RBM" wrote:
"zek" wrote in message

...
On May 28, 6:13 pm, "RBM" wrote:

"zek" wrote in message

....

my house has walls that are very thick and heavy. Cutting electrical
outlet holes and ceiling holes is very difficult. Using a saws all
with a big tooth demolition blade, I get maybe 20 inches before the
blade is flat. Ceramic blades are much worse. Am I doing it. Right?
I find finer tooth blades are worse.

Greg

What is the material that you're cutting? Other than outlet boxes, what
are
you cutting on the ceiling?

I have cut ceiling recessed lights and an attic entrance. The round
holes need a smaller blade which goes bad fast, there is no lath or
metal or wood. I'll see if I have a piece to take a photo.

Greg

I think what you have, is rock lath plaster, it's like a layer of 1/2"
sheetrock with holes in it, that's plastered over. The plaster keys into the
holes. It winds up about an inch thick, and is often very hard. I usually
cut outlet holes in that with a hand keyhole saw. It's work, but you're
getting a clean rectangle with no big chips. For the recessed lights, Lenox
makes carbide hole saws that work great. The only down side is the dust. I
cut a basketball in half, and drill a hole in the center of one half, slide
it over the hole saw, which helps to trap the dust and plaster particles.

Picture".........

http://zekfrivolous.com/wall/wall.JPG

Greg

On May 28, 7:17*pm, zek wrote:
On May 28, 6:31*pm, "RBM" wrote:





"zek" wrote in message

....
On May 28, 6:13 pm, "RBM" wrote:

"zek" wrote in message

....

my house has walls that are very thick and heavy. Cutting electrical
outlet holes and ceiling holes is very difficult. Using a saws all
with a big tooth demolition blade, I get maybe 20 inches before the
blade is flat. Ceramic blades are much worse. Am I doing it. Right?
I find finer tooth blades are worse.

Greg

What is the material that you're cutting? Other than outlet boxes, what
are
you cutting on the ceiling?

I have cut ceiling recessed lights and an attic entrance. The round
holes need a smaller blade which goes bad fast, there is no lath or
metal or wood. I'll see if I have a piece to take a photo.

Greg

I think what you have, is rock lath plaster, it's like a layer of 1/2"
sheetrock with holes in it, that's plastered over. The plaster keys into the
holes. It winds up about an inch thick, and is often very hard. I usually
cut outlet holes in that with a hand keyhole saw. It's work, but you're
getting a clean rectangle with no big chips. For the recessed lights, Lenox
makes carbide hole saws that work great. The only down side is the dust.. I
cut a basketball in half, and drill a hole in the center of one half, slide
it over the hole saw, which helps to trap the dust and plaster particles.

Picture".........

http://zekfrivolous.com/wall/wall.JPG

Greg

I'll say one thing, makes good soundproofing!! Just a hair over 1 inch
thick.

Greg

"zek" wrote in message
...
On May 28, 6:31 pm, "RBM" wrote:
"zek" wrote in message

...
On May 28, 6:13 pm, "RBM" wrote:

"zek" wrote in message

...

my house has walls that are very thick and heavy. Cutting electrical
outlet holes and ceiling holes is very difficult. Using a saws all
with a big tooth demolition blade, I get maybe 20 inches before the
blade is flat. Ceramic blades are much worse. Am I doing it. Right?
I find finer tooth blades are worse.

Greg

What is the material that you're cutting? Other than outlet boxes, what
are
you cutting on the ceiling?

I have cut ceiling recessed lights and an attic entrance. The round
holes need a smaller blade which goes bad fast, there is no lath or
metal or wood. I'll see if I have a piece to take a photo.

Greg

I think what you have, is rock lath plaster, it's like a layer of 1/2"
sheetrock with holes in it, that's plastered over. The plaster keys into
the
holes. It winds up about an inch thick, and is often very hard. I usually
cut outlet holes in that with a hand keyhole saw. It's work, but you're
getting a clean rectangle with no big chips. For the recessed lights,
Lenox
makes carbide hole saws that work great. The only down side is the dust. I
cut a basketball in half, and drill a hole in the center of one half,
slide
it over the hole saw, which helps to trap the dust and plaster particles.

Picture".........

http://zekfrivolous.com/wall/wall.JPG

Greg

Looks like rock lath, but I've never seen the plaster coat that thick. It
looks more like cement than plaster. OK, so you live in a bunker. If you're
near tornado alley, that's a good thing. Look at the bright side, when
you're done with this project, you'll have the biggest biceps in town.

"zek" wrote in message
...
On May 28, 7:17 pm, zek wrote:
On May 28, 6:31 pm, "RBM" wrote:





"zek" wrote in message

...
On May 28, 6:13 pm, "RBM" wrote:

"zek" wrote in message

...

my house has walls that are very thick and heavy. Cutting electrical
outlet holes and ceiling holes is very difficult. Using a saws all
with a big tooth demolition blade, I get maybe 20 inches before the
blade is flat. Ceramic blades are much worse. Am I doing it. Right?
I find finer tooth blades are worse.

Greg

What is the material that you're cutting? Other than outlet boxes,
what
are
you cutting on the ceiling?

I have cut ceiling recessed lights and an attic entrance. The round
holes need a smaller blade which goes bad fast, there is no lath or
metal or wood. I'll see if I have a piece to take a photo.

Greg

I think what you have, is rock lath plaster, it's like a layer of 1/2"
sheetrock with holes in it, that's plastered over. The plaster keys into
the
holes. It winds up about an inch thick, and is often very hard. I
usually
cut outlet holes in that with a hand keyhole saw. It's work, but you're
getting a clean rectangle with no big chips. For the recessed lights,
Lenox
makes carbide hole saws that work great. The only down side is the dust.
I
cut a basketball in half, and drill a hole in the center of one half,
slide
it over the hole saw, which helps to trap the dust and plaster
particles.

Picture".........

http://zekfrivolous.com/wall/wall.JPG

Greg

I'll say one thing, makes good soundproofing!! Just a hair over 1 inch
thick.

Greg

I just did a recess lighting job in a place that was an estate garage,
converted into a house about 50 years ago. all the ceilings were wire lath
with about 1 -1/2" thick very hard plaster. I cut 14 - 7" holes with the
Lenox. It worked really well. I don't think it dulled it at all.

On May 28, 7:29*pm, "RBM" wrote:
"zek" wrote in message

...
On May 28, 6:31 pm, "RBM" wrote:





"zek" wrote in message

....
On May 28, 6:13 pm, "RBM" wrote:

"zek" wrote in message

....

my house has walls that are very thick and heavy. Cutting electrical
outlet holes and ceiling holes is very difficult. Using a saws all
with a big tooth demolition blade, I get maybe 20 inches before the
blade is flat. Ceramic blades are much worse. Am I doing it. Right?
I find finer tooth blades are worse.

Greg

What is the material that you're cutting? Other than outlet boxes, what
are
you cutting on the ceiling?

I have cut ceiling recessed lights and an attic entrance. The round
holes need a smaller blade which goes bad fast, there is no lath or
metal or wood. I'll see if I have a piece to take a photo.

Greg

I think what you have, is rock lath plaster, it's like a layer of 1/2"
sheetrock with holes in it, that's plastered over. The plaster keys into
the
holes. It winds up about an inch thick, and is often very hard. I usually
cut outlet holes in that with a hand keyhole saw. It's work, but you're
getting a clean rectangle with no big chips. For the recessed lights,
Lenox
makes carbide hole saws that work great. The only down side is the dust.. I
cut a basketball in half, and drill a hole in the center of one half,
slide
it over the hole saw, which helps to trap the dust and plaster particles.

Picture".........

http://zekfrivolous.com/wall/wall.JPG

Greg

Looks like rock lath, but I've never seen the plaster coat that thick. It
looks more like cement than plaster. OK, so you live in a bunker. If you're
near tornado alley, that's a good thing. Look at the bright side, when
you're done with this project, you'll have the biggest biceps in town.

I'm near Pittsburgh. House built around 1953. We have had tornados
lately. I also have basement. I can see where the walls have bent the
10 inch joists down over the years. Another trouble house was built
with a main bean of 4 8X2 s. I reinforced that. I'm still leveling.

Greg

"zek" wrote in message
...
On May 28, 6:31 pm, "RBM" wrote:
"zek" wrote in message

...
On May 28, 6:13 pm, "RBM" wrote:

"zek" wrote in message

...

my house has walls that are very thick and heavy. Cutting electrical
outlet holes and ceiling holes is very difficult. Using a saws all
with a big tooth demolition blade, I get maybe 20 inches before the
blade is flat. Ceramic blades are much worse. Am I doing it. Right?
I find finer tooth blades are worse.

Greg

What is the material that you're cutting? Other than outlet boxes, what
are
you cutting on the ceiling?

I have cut ceiling recessed lights and an attic entrance. The round
holes need a smaller blade which goes bad fast, there is no lath or
metal or wood. I'll see if I have a piece to take a photo.

Greg

I think what you have, is rock lath plaster, it's like a layer of 1/2"
sheetrock with holes in it, that's plastered over. The plaster keys into
the
holes. It winds up about an inch thick, and is often very hard. I usually
cut outlet holes in that with a hand keyhole saw. It's work, but you're
getting a clean rectangle with no big chips. For the recessed lights,
Lenox
makes carbide hole saws that work great. The only down side is the dust. I
cut a basketball in half, and drill a hole in the center of one half,
slide
it over the hole saw, which helps to trap the dust and plaster particles.

Picture".........

http://zekfrivolous.com/wall/wall.JPG

Greg

+++++++++++

Wow, that's an interesting picture. I've never seen anything like that, but
I also never heard of rock lath plaster before.

In the picture, is the brownish top of the picture the inside of the wall,
or is it the wall surface that shows when standing in the room?

I own a property that was built in the late 1940's. It has regular
drywall/sheetrock throughout but all of the sheetrock is double layered --
two layers of regular 1/2-inch sheetrock. I don't know if it is true, but
someone said to me that they believe that sheetrock was a newer form of
finishing walls at that time and the old-timers didn't think 1/2-inch
sheetrock would be strong enough so they double-rocked everything. I guess
wall finishing was going through a transition in the late 40's and early
50's. A house I grew up in was built in 1954 and it has what is normal for
today -- regular 1/2-inch sheetrock walls throughout.

my house has walls that are very thick and heavy. Cutting electrical
outlet holes and ceiling holes is very difficult. Using a saws all
with a big tooth demolition blade, I get maybe 20 inches before the
blade is flat. Ceramic blades are much worse. Am I doing it. Right?
I find finer tooth blades are worse.

Greg

What is the material that you're cutting? Other than outlet boxes,
what
are
you cutting on the ceiling?

I have cut ceiling recessed lights and an attic entrance. The round
holes need a smaller blade which goes bad fast, there is no lath or
metal or wood. I'll see if I have a piece to take a photo.

Greg

I think what you have, is rock lath plaster, it's like a layer of 1/2"
sheetrock with holes in it, that's plastered over. The plaster keys into
the
holes. It winds up about an inch thick, and is often very hard. I
usually
cut outlet holes in that with a hand keyhole saw. It's work, but you're
getting a clean rectangle with no big chips. For the recessed lights,
Lenox
makes carbide hole saws that work great. The only down side is the dust.
I
cut a basketball in half, and drill a hole in the center of one half,
slide
it over the hole saw, which helps to trap the dust and plaster
particles.

Picture".........

http://zekfrivolous.com/wall/wall.JPG

Greg

Looks like rock lath, but I've never seen the plaster coat that thick. It
looks more like cement than plaster. OK, so you live in a bunker. If
you're
near tornado alley, that's a good thing. Look at the bright side, when
you're done with this project, you'll have the biggest biceps in town.

I'm near Pittsburgh. House built around 1953. We have had tornados
lately. I also have basement. I can see where the walls have bent the
10 inch joists down over the years. Another trouble house was built
with a main bean of 4 8X2 s. I reinforced that. I'm still leveling.

Greg


*That is a heavy duty wall. I suggest a RotoZip tool with maybe a cement
board bit or possibly a diamond bit. For a quick square cut,
not-too-accurate of a hole, an angle grinder with a diamond blade will be
fast, but dusty. I have a little Makita cordless saw. I can put a 3"
diamond blade on it for cuts such as yours. The 9.6 volt battery doesn't
last too long though.

The hole saws that RBM suggested are perfect for recessed lights. They are
available in several sizes to accommodate different manufacturers. You can
also get tungsten carbide hole saws the same size as round electrical boxes.
Check McMaster.com

On May 28, 8:38*pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:
my house has walls that are very thick and heavy. Cutting electrical
outlet holes and ceiling holes is very difficult. Using a saws all
with a big tooth demolition blade, I get maybe 20 inches before the
blade is flat. Ceramic blades are much worse. Am I doing it. Right?
I find finer tooth blades are worse.

Greg

What is the material that you're cutting? Other than outlet boxes,
what
are
you cutting on the ceiling?

I have cut ceiling recessed lights and an attic entrance. The round
holes need a smaller blade which goes bad fast, there is no lath or
metal or wood. I'll see if I have a piece to take a photo.

Greg

I think what you have, is rock lath plaster, it's like a layer of 1/2"
sheetrock with holes in it, that's plastered over. The plaster keys into
the
holes. It winds up about an inch thick, and is often very hard. I
usually
cut outlet holes in that with a hand keyhole saw. It's work, but you're
getting a clean rectangle with no big chips. For the recessed lights,
Lenox
makes carbide hole saws that work great. The only down side is the dust.
I
cut a basketball in half, and drill a hole in the center of one half,
slide
it over the hole saw, which helps to trap the dust and plaster
particles.

Picture".........

http://zekfrivolous.com/wall/wall.JPG

Greg

Looks like rock lath, but I've never seen the plaster coat that thick. It
looks more like cement than plaster. OK, so you live in a bunker. If
you're
near tornado alley, that's a good thing. Look at the bright side, when
you're done with this project, you'll have the biggest biceps in town.

I'm near Pittsburgh. House built around 1953. We have had tornados
lately. I also have basement. I can see where the walls have bent the
10 inch joists down over the years. Another trouble house was built
with a main bean of 4 8X2 s. I reinforced that. I'm still leveling.

Greg

*That is a heavy duty wall. *I suggest a RotoZip tool with maybe a cement
board bit or possibly a diamond bit. *For a quick square cut,
not-too-accurate of a hole, an angle grinder with a diamond blade will be
fast, but dusty. *I have a little Makita cordless saw. *I can put a 3"
diamond blade on it for cuts such as yours. *The 9.6 volt battery doesn't
last too long though.

The hole saws that RBM suggested are perfect for recessed lights. *They are
available in several sizes to accommodate different manufacturers. *You can
also get tungsten carbide hole saws the same size as round electrical boxes.
Check McMaster.com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I live in pittsburgh too, the plastrer can be unreal hard.

Because of this I mark the wall and use a drill, first drill holes at
corners, then use the bit to drill to drag the bit and connect the
holes.

Its not pretty but far less dusty and no constant replacing of blades

On May 28, 8:18*pm, "RogerT" wrote:
"zek" wrote in message

...
On May 28, 6:31 pm, "RBM" wrote:





"zek" wrote in message

....
On May 28, 6:13 pm, "RBM" wrote:

"zek" wrote in message

....

my house has walls that are very thick and heavy. Cutting electrical
outlet holes and ceiling holes is very difficult. Using a saws all
with a big tooth demolition blade, I get maybe 20 inches before the
blade is flat. Ceramic blades are much worse. Am I doing it. Right?
I find finer tooth blades are worse.

Greg

What is the material that you're cutting? Other than outlet boxes, what
are
you cutting on the ceiling?

I have cut ceiling recessed lights and an attic entrance. The round
holes need a smaller blade which goes bad fast, there is no lath or
metal or wood. I'll see if I have a piece to take a photo.

Greg

I think what you have, is rock lath plaster, it's like a layer of 1/2"
sheetrock with holes in it, that's plastered over. The plaster keys into
the
holes. It winds up about an inch thick, and is often very hard. I usually
cut outlet holes in that with a hand keyhole saw. It's work, but you're
getting a clean rectangle with no big chips. For the recessed lights,
Lenox
makes carbide hole saws that work great. The only down side is the dust.. I
cut a basketball in half, and drill a hole in the center of one half,
slide
it over the hole saw, which helps to trap the dust and plaster particles.

Picture".........

http://zekfrivolous.com/wall/wall.JPG

Greg

+++++++++++

Wow, that's an interesting picture. *I've never seen anything like that, but
I also never heard of rock lath plaster before.

In the picture, is the brownish top of the picture the inside of the wall,
or is it the wall surface that shows when standing in the room?

I own a property that was built in the late 1940's. *It has regular
drywall/sheetrock throughout but all of the sheetrock is double layered -- *
two layers of regular 1/2-inch sheetrock. *I don't know if it is true, but
someone said to me that they believe that sheetrock was a newer form of
finishing walls at that time and the old-timers didn't think 1/2-inch
sheetrock would be strong enough so they double-rocked everything. *I guess
wall finishing was going through a transition in the late 40's and early
50's. *A house I grew up in was built in 1954 and it has what is normal for
today -- regular 1/2-inch sheetrock walls throughout.

The brown paper is the inside. In my old house, was newer, the
ceilings had two sheets of drywall with a plaster skin coat, very
smooth. The living areas had a texture. I would assume all the walls
had two sheets.

Greg

zek wrote:

On May 28, 6:31 pm, "RBM" wrote:
"zek" wrote in message

...
On May 28, 6:13 pm, "RBM" wrote:

"zek" wrote in message

...

my house has walls that are very thick and heavy. Cutting electrical
outlet holes and ceiling holes is very difficult. Using a saws all
with a big tooth demolition blade, I get maybe 20 inches before the
blade is flat. Ceramic blades are much worse. Am I doing it. Right?
I find finer tooth blades are worse.

Greg

What is the material that you're cutting? Other than outlet boxes, what
are
you cutting on the ceiling?

I have cut ceiling recessed lights and an attic entrance. The round
holes need a smaller blade which goes bad fast, there is no lath or
metal or wood. I'll see if I have a piece to take a photo.

Greg

I think what you have, is rock lath plaster, it's like a layer of 1/2"
sheetrock with holes in it, that's plastered over. The plaster keys into the
holes. It winds up about an inch thick, and is often very hard. I usually
cut outlet holes in that with a hand keyhole saw. It's work, but you're
getting a clean rectangle with no big chips. For the recessed lights, Lenox
makes carbide hole saws that work great. The only down side is the dust. I
cut a basketball in half, and drill a hole in the center of one half, slide
it over the hole saw, which helps to trap the dust and plaster particles.

Picture".........

http://zekfrivolous.com/wall/wall.JPG

Greg

That's what my '60s house has - rock lath, brown coat plaster (lotsa
little stones to dull blades), and a thin white coat.

I use a DeWalt high speed rotary tool w/circle cutter and carbide bit on
ceilings, and either the same tool or my RotoZip w/carbide bit to
freehand the wall outlets - always using a shop vac close to the bit to
minimize dust.

http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DW660SK...ref=pd_cp_hi_1

"RogerT" wrote in message
...
"zek" wrote in message
...
On May 28, 6:31 pm, "RBM" wrote:
"zek" wrote in message

...
On May 28, 6:13 pm, "RBM" wrote:

"zek" wrote in message

...

my house has walls that are very thick and heavy. Cutting electrical
outlet holes and ceiling holes is very difficult. Using a saws all
with a big tooth demolition blade, I get maybe 20 inches before the
blade is flat. Ceramic blades are much worse. Am I doing it. Right?
I find finer tooth blades are worse.

Greg

What is the material that you're cutting? Other than outlet boxes, what
are
you cutting on the ceiling?

I have cut ceiling recessed lights and an attic entrance. The round
holes need a smaller blade which goes bad fast, there is no lath or
metal or wood. I'll see if I have a piece to take a photo.

Greg

I think what you have, is rock lath plaster, it's like a layer of 1/2"
sheetrock with holes in it, that's plastered over. The plaster keys into
the
holes. It winds up about an inch thick, and is often very hard. I usually
cut outlet holes in that with a hand keyhole saw. It's work, but you're
getting a clean rectangle with no big chips. For the recessed lights,
Lenox
makes carbide hole saws that work great. The only down side is the dust.
I
cut a basketball in half, and drill a hole in the center of one half,
slide
it over the hole saw, which helps to trap the dust and plaster particles.

Picture".........

http://zekfrivolous.com/wall/wall.JPG

Greg

+++++++++++

Wow, that's an interesting picture. I've never seen anything like that,
but I also never heard of rock lath plaster before.

In the picture, is the brownish top of the picture the inside of the wall,
or is it the wall surface that shows when standing in the room?

I own a property that was built in the late 1940's. It has regular
drywall/sheetrock throughout but all of the sheetrock is double layered --
two layers of regular 1/2-inch sheetrock. I don't know if it is true, but
someone said to me that they believe that sheetrock was a newer form of
finishing walls at that time and the old-timers didn't think 1/2-inch
sheetrock would be strong enough so they double-rocked everything. I
guess wall finishing was going through a transition in the late 40's and
early 50's. A house I grew up in was built in 1954 and it has what is
normal for today -- regular 1/2-inch sheetrock walls throughout.

**I've seen double layer sheetrock done in newer houses. The first layer is
nailed and the second layer is glued to the first. It's a clean smooth job
with no nail indents

On May 28, 2:53*pm, zek wrote:
my house has walls that are very thick and heavy. Cutting electrical
outlet holes and ceiling holes is very difficult. Using a saws all
with a big tooth demolition blade, I get maybe 20 inches before the
blade is flat. Ceramic blades are much worse. Am I doing it. Right?
I find finer tooth blades are worse.

Greg

Do you live in the bomb shelter pictured on your home page?

That might explain the walls you have.

On May 28, 9:52*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On May 28, 2:53*pm, zek wrote:

my house has walls that are very thick and heavy. Cutting electrical
outlet holes and ceiling holes is very difficult. Using a saws all
with a big tooth demolition blade, I get maybe 20 inches before the
blade is flat. Ceramic blades are much worse. Am I doing it. Right?
I find finer tooth blades are worse.

Greg

Do you live in the bomb shelter pictured on your home page?

That might explain the walls you have.

I had lived accross the street from that shelter. I never went in
it.that house cost about 50% more because of constructed. Lightning
hit an outside antenna, caused fire in basement. Destroyed some sheets
he had drawn for an animation for HBO.. Re did them and it was caalled
Alice in the magic bubble. Nations first fallout shelter for a
residence.

Greg

zek wrote:
On May 28, 8:18 pm, "RogerT" wrote:

Wow, that's an interesting picture. I've never seen anything like
that, but I also never heard of rock lath plaster before.

In the picture, is the brownish top of the picture the inside of the
wall, or is it the wall surface that shows when standing in the room?


The brown paper is the inside. In my old house, was newer, the
ceilings had two sheets of drywall with a plaster skin coat, very
smooth. The living areas had a texture. I would assume all the walls
had two sheets.

Thanks again. I guess that means it is what RBM suggested -- at least for
the walls --- rock lath plaster.

Looks like for the walls they nailed the drywall to the studs, then did a
"brown coat" (rough coat) of plaster, then a thin white finish coat of
plaster. And I guess for the ceilings it was easier and lighter to just do
two layers of drywall and then a finish coat of white plaster.

At least now if I ever run into the same thing you have I'll know what it
is.

zek wrote:
On May 28, 3:55 pm, "RogerT" wrote:
zek wrote:
my house has walls that are very thick and heavy.

I assume that you probably won't write back but .....,

What are the walls made of? Is it an old house? Are the walls made of
plaster over wooden lath? Are they made of some other type of masonry
product?



Cutting electrical
outlet holes and ceiling holes is very difficult. Using a saws all
with a big tooth demolition blade, I get maybe 20 inches before the
blade is flat. Ceramic blades are much worse. Am I doing it. Right?
I find finer tooth blades are worse.

Greg

Some kind of double layer material maybe plaster. The inner layer is
very gritty like sand.


Best thing I've found so far for plaster walls is the Harbor Freight
MultiFunction tool, with a diamond grit blade.