Hello,

A few days ago, we saw a swarm of winged insects near the edge of the
door in the wooden part. Then later, they had carved small cracks in
the wood.


Is there any kind of recommended spray/chemical that would get rid of
any possible termites living inside of it?


Anything non-toxic would be great.


Also, do you recommend putting termite baits outside the property to
repel them? anything else we can do?


And if we do end up calling termite companies, what is a reasonable
price for the initial application? I emailed one and got a quote of
$600 which seemed really high.


Let me know if you have any ideas. We are newbies to this sort of
problem.


Thanks!

On Apr 6, 3:20*pm, lora wrote:
And if we do end up calling termite companies, what is a reasonable
price for the initial application? I emailed one and got a quote of
$600 which seemed really high.

How much is your house worth? Tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of
dollars?

Termites could completely destroy your house if you cheap out and try
to get rid of them yourself.

$600 to potentially save tens of thousands in repair bills is pretty
darn cheap if you ask me.

On Apr 6, 2:51*pm, wrote:
On Apr 6, 3:20*pm, lora wrote:

And if we do end up calling termite companies, what is a reasonable
price for the initial application? I emailed one and got a quote of
$600 which seemed really high.

How much is your house worth? Tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of
dollars?

Termites could completely destroy your house if you cheap out and try
to get rid of them yourself.

$600 to potentially save tens of thousands in repair bills is pretty
darn cheap if you ask me.

Not to mention the health problems some of the chemicals can cause, if
you can even buy them.

Termites can do a hell of a lot of damage in one season.

RonB

On Tue, 6 Apr 2010 12:55:45 -0700 (PDT), RonB
wrote:

On Apr 6, 2:51*pm, wrote:
On Apr 6, 3:20*pm, lora wrote:

And if we do end up calling termite companies, what is a reasonable
price for the initial application? I emailed one and got a quote of
$600 which seemed really high.

How much is your house worth? Tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of
dollars?

Termites could completely destroy your house if you cheap out and try
to get rid of them yourself.

$600 to potentially save tens of thousands in repair bills is pretty
darn cheap if you ask me.

Not to mention the health problems some of the chemicals can cause, if
you can even buy them.

Termites can do a hell of a lot of damage in one season.

RonB

Orkin states: "Termites are surprisingly long-lived insects. Queen
termites can live up to fifty years under ideal climate conditions.
Workers and soldiers live approximately one to two years."

"lora" wrote in message
...
Hello,

A few days ago, we saw a swarm of winged insects near the edge of the
door in the wooden part. Then later, they had carved small cracks in
the wood.

They've swarmed. That's a bad, bad sign. By the time you've seen them,
they're usually already well-established. Begin looking around for mud
tubes. The termites need protection from sunlight and drying out, so they
build tunnels from the outside, where the main nest is, to inside, where the
wood is.

Is there any kind of recommended spray/chemical that would get rid of
any possible termites living inside of it?

You need a complete inspection by a professional. Without it, there's no
way of telling whether they've gotten into the structural timber. That's
bad.

Anything non-toxic would be great.


Also, do you recommend putting termite baits outside the property to
repel them? anything else we can do?

I've been using Spectracide termite stakes for about 5 years after a bad
infestation and quotes of $1000 and more to pump the soil around the house
full of insecticide by drilling holes in the concrete floor. I demurred.

Once you find the way they are coming in and break up the mud tubes and lay
down a double dose of stakes outside, that may be all you need to do. It's
all I did. The termites inside die quickly once cut off from their nest.

Like you, I was reluctant to have poison pumped into or around the
foundation. The stakes (actually 2" by 8" bait tubes that you put in the
ground with a drill they provide) have been remarkably effective. I know
because my neighbor, who has a Terminix contract, had a massive infestation
last year but I didn't. This year, I doubled the number of stakes I put on
that side of the house. (-:

And if we do end up calling termite companies, what is a reasonable
price for the initial application? I emailed one and got a quote of
$600 which seemed really high.

You must be away from a metro area. That's low, compared to what I got
quoted around Washington, DC. I think, though, that since it costs them
very little to treat an individual home, that many charge what they think
you can pay, with no relation to actual costs. You may be able to get some
free inspections to show you where the problem is. I didn't need that
because I knew what to look for and where after Googling the problem for a
few days.

Let me know if you have any ideas. We are newbies to this sort of
problem.

You've got to lock it down quickly and be diligent about putting down new
bait traps every year in early March just before they start becoming active
again. This is the time of year for swarms - and for pest control
advertising.

When I first moved here, on the first warm day of spring, the whole basement
filled with the little devils and their fallen-off wings. Didn't know what
was happening and nearly fell over when I pulled down the two ceilings the
previous owners had erected to conceal the damage. Very serious
infestation.

I handled that with Chlordane, an incredibly strong termite killer but now
banned by the EPA. I would walk around the house in March each year with a
mild solution of Chlordane in a watering can. It was only when that gallon
bottle ran out (it lasted nearly 10 years!) that they returned, and that's
when I switched to the Spectracide stakes (bought at Home Depot - 40 stakes
for under $100).

If you look around your door carefully, I am sure you'll see the little mud
tunnels that they build. Lots of times they follow wires stapled to a piece
of wood and you have to look with a strong flashlight to see them. Cable TV
installers created the path for my neighbor's infestation. The mud tubes
ran up the bricks to the hole they had drilled (and NOT puttied!) and inside
they followed the along the cable that was stapled to a joist until they
reached the main house beam.

Good luck! And get out the caulking gun!

--
Bobby G.

Robert Green wrote:

I handled that with Chlordane, an incredibly strong termite killer
but now banned by the EPA. I would walk around the house in March
each year with a mild solution of Chlordane in a watering can. It
was only when that gallon bottle ran out (it lasted nearly 10 years!)
that they returned, and that's when I switched to the Spectracide
stakes (bought at Home Depot - 40 stakes for under $100).


Previously, termite treatment, like Chlordane, was "barrier" treatment,
kinda like the fence on the Mexican border.

Newer chemicals don't kill or even discourage the termites right away. The
workers take the poisoned wood (or their dirty feet) back to the nest and
the chemical shortly kills all of the critters, including the queen. So
instead of a "fence," you nuke Juarez.

You can get the latest incarnation of these new chemicals, Termidor, on
Ebay. You dig a 6" trench around your home, pour in the chemical, and call
it good. Other application methods are possible.

Termidor ain't cheap.

lora wrote:
Hello,

A few days ago, we saw a swarm of winged insects near the edge of the
door in the wooden part. Then later, they had carved small cracks in
the wood.


Is there any kind of recommended spray/chemical that would get rid of
any possible termites living inside of it?


Anything non-toxic would be great.


Also, do you recommend putting termite baits outside the property to
repel them? anything else we can do?


And if we do end up calling termite companies, what is a reasonable
price for the initial application? I emailed one and got a quote of
$600 which seemed really high.


Let me know if you have any ideas. We are newbies to this sort of
problem.


Thanks!



First, identify the insects. Termites don't carve cracks, they tunnel
and have small, round tubes. They could ENTER through cracks or any
other opening like uncaulked joints, plumbing/electrical entries, etc.
They look like ants with wings, sort of. If you can take a sample to
your local extension service, they can ID and also give you valuable
info about treatment. Different kinds of termites require different
treatment. This is the time of year that they "swarm" to mate and set
up new colonies.

If the house is already infested, you can likely find the areas of
infestation. Wood around doors and windows might have hollow sound when
tapped, wings shed around windows and doors, mud tubes inside or outside
foundation or into plumbing access cavities.

Find a reputable licensed pest control contractor or two and get an
inspection. Should be done yearly. Fighting fires and termites should
be left to the pro's. Baits are used to control subterranean termites,
which may or may not be what you have.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
Robert Green wrote:

I handled that with Chlordane, an incredibly strong termite killer
but now banned by the EPA. I would walk around the house in March
each year with a mild solution of Chlordane in a watering can. It
was only when that gallon bottle ran out (it lasted nearly 10 years!)
that they returned, and that's when I switched to the Spectracide
stakes (bought at Home Depot - 40 stakes for under $100).


Previously, termite treatment, like Chlordane, was "barrier" treatment,
kinda like the fence on the Mexican border.

Newer chemicals don't kill or even discourage the termites right away. The
workers take the poisoned wood (or their dirty feet) back to the nest and
the chemical shortly kills all of the critters, including the queen. So
instead of a "fence," you nuke Juarez.

You can get the latest incarnation of these new chemicals, Termidor, on
Ebay. You dig a 6" trench around your home, pour in the chemical, and call
it good. Other application methods are possible.

We don't need no steenkin' trenches! (-: Never had to dig with Chlordane.
Now I chuck the 2-1/2" dirt auger bit into a cordless drill and I can treat
the whole house with Spectracide in a hour. The stakes aren't quite a
barrier, but if you ring the house with them, the effect is the same. They
work, as you note, like a Trojan horse. The workers wheel the poison into
the nest, and it's hasta la vista.

Termite control companies charge my neighbor nearly a thousand dollars a
year to lay down far fewer stakes and they are *always* finding termites
inside. Today was the first over 90 degree day we've had. I will be
checking the basement shortly to see if the stakes have protected me another
year. I hope so!

Chlordane got banned by builders dumping 100's of gallons of Chlordane into
the foundation hole when building. From there, it entered the aquifier
quite easily. It's a potent nerve toxin for humans. Too bad some cowboys
screwed it up for the rest of us.

Termidor ain't cheap.

Spectracide costs $100 per year, and I suppose I *could* get away with just
20 stakes for $50. But as they said in Aliens, you gotta nuke 'em. Just to
be sure.

I also bury stakes twice as deep as recommended (had to buy a 3' garden
auger for that) because I've read that if you surface treat for ants, the
poison gets into the ground and the termites dig much deeper than normal to
avoid the surface stuff. If they do, they still run into my low-rider
termite stakes.

The new bait tubes even have a spring-loaded bright orange, golf-tee shaped
indicator so that when they eat the bait, a little flag pops up to let you
know there's termite activity. In reality, it more often lets you know that
rainwater has gotten into the bait tube and dissolved the poison-impregnated
cardboard.

--
Bobby G.

On Apr 6, 3:20*pm, lora wrote:
Hello,

A few days ago, we saw a swarm of winged insects near the edge of the
door in the wooden part. Then later, they had carved small cracks in
the wood.

Unless you watched them do it, you don't know that. Termites do not
carve "cracks".

Is there any kind of recommended spray/chemical that would get rid of
any possible termites living inside of it?

Dozens.

Anything non-toxic would be great.

Try water, maybe you can drown them.

The vast majority of modern "interior" insecticides are harmless to
mammals and are typically applied in 00000000000.20% concentrations,
or less.

Also, do you recommend putting termite baits outside the property to
repel them?

Bait to repel is a contradiction in terms.

anything else we can do?

Move?

And if we do end up calling termite companies, what is a reasonable
price for the initial application?

In the vast majority of cases there should be only one application.
Subsequent applications should be free.

I emailed one and got a quote of
$600 which seemed really high.

Compared to what...?

I've done hundreds of termite jobs, few of which were less than $1200.

Any PCO who would give you a bid by email should be avoided, and
arguably have their license revoked.

Let me know if you have any ideas.

I'd suggest alt.consumers.pest-control but it seems to have been
abandoned.

Most of the responses here are a waste of time to read unless you are
a dedicated fan of near absolute ignorance.

Try Google.
-----

- gpsman

wrote in message
...

stuff snipped

Find a reputable licensed pest control contractor or two and get an
inspection. Should be done yearly. Fighting fires and termites should
be left to the pro's. Baits are used to control subterranean termites,
which may or may not be what you have.

Good point, which is why I suggested she get a few free inspection. It's my
understanding that if you see mud tubes, you've got the subterranean
variety.

As for cracks, I've watched termites swarm and they emerge from the wood
through holes and slits so tiny they appear to be materializing like magic
on the surface. Perhaps that's what the OP was seeing. Termites also dig
grooves in wood - could be that as well.

Hiring exterminators, sadly, is no guarantee you're really getting a
professional and not some spray happy kid whose last job was as a fry cook
at McDonald's. That's why I would recommend talking to more than one
company.

FWIW, in Australia, the survivors of last year's horrific brush fires were
often the ones that stayed behind to save their own houses. They manned
their generator powered pumps that sprayed a constant stream of water on the
houses to keep embers from landing and igniting. Many died who decided to
evacuate instead, not realizing the fire was all around them.

Sometimes, a professional who is a stranger isn't going to care about you or
your possessions the way you would. I've watched enough inspections to know
how to do one as thoroughly as a pro. It's not rocket science nor is it as
foolish as trying to do a root canal on yourself. It requires no special
tools, just a flashlight, a screwdriver and a hammer.

For me, paying $1000 a year to do what I have been doing successfully myself
for the last five years for under $100 would be tantamount to setting fire
to $900 a year.

I did, however, mail the carcasses of the dead termites to the Agriculture
folks because the nationwide head of the extension service is three miles
away from here in Beltsville, MD. Once they confirmed that they were
subterranean termites, I felt comfortable I was doing the right thing. It's
saved me $4,500 so far.

The fact that my neighbor, who is professionally treated, still has termites
swarming, bolsters my faith in the stakes and my home treatment plan. YMMV,
though. They appear to use the same treatment, but far less bait tubes.
Why pay $1000 to get less of something you can do for yourself for $100?

--
Bobby G.

On Apr 6, 9:05*pm, gpsman wrote:
On Apr 6, 3:20*pm, lora wrote:

Hello,

A few days ago, we saw a swarm of winged insects near the edge of the
door in the wooden part. Then later, they had carved small cracks in
the wood.

Unless you watched them do it, you don't know that. *Termites do not
carve "cracks".

Is there any kind of recommended spray/chemical that would get rid of
any possible termites living inside of it?

Dozens.

Anything non-toxic would be great.

Try water, maybe you can drown them.

The vast majority of modern "interior" insecticides are harmless to
mammals and are typically applied in 00000000000.20% concentrations,
or less.

Also, do you recommend putting termite baits outside the property to
repel them?

Bait to repel is a contradiction in terms.

anything else we can do?

Move?

And if we do end up calling termite companies, what is a reasonable
price for the initial application?

In the vast majority of cases there should be only one application.
Subsequent applications should be free.

I emailed one and got a quote of
$600 which seemed really high.

Compared to what...?

I've done hundreds of termite jobs, few of which were less than $1200.

Any PCO who would give you a bid by email should be avoided, and
arguably have their license revoked.

Let me know if you have any ideas.

I'd suggest alt.consumers.pest-control but it seems to have been
abandoned.

Most of the responses here are a waste of time to read unless you are
a dedicated fan of near absolute ignorance.

Try Google.
*-----

- gpsman

First we need to know where the OP lives. If it is far enough north,
then termites may not be the problem.

On Apr 6, 10:16*pm, "hr(bob) "
wrote:
On Apr 6, 9:05*pm, gpsman wrote:

First we need to know where the OP lives. *If it is far enough north,
then termites may not be the problem.

A "swarm of winged insects" isn't much of a description, either.
-----

- gpsman

On Apr 6, 2:20*pm, lora wrote:
Hello,

A few days ago, we saw a swarm of winged insects near the edge of the
door in the wooden part. Then later, they had carved small cracks in
the wood.

Is there any kind of recommended spray/chemical that would get rid of
any possible termites living inside of it?

Anything non-toxic would be great.

Also, do you recommend putting termite baits outside the property to
repel them? anything else we can do?

And if we do end up calling termite companies, what is a reasonable
price for the initial application? I emailed one and got a quote of
$600 which seemed really high.

Let me know if you have any ideas. We are newbies to this sort of
problem.

Thanks!

$600 is not unreasonable, a lot depends on the size of the house,
basement or crawl space or slab, etc.

Robert Green wrote:
wrote in message
...

stuff snipped

Find a reputable licensed pest control contractor or two and get an
inspection. Should be done yearly. Fighting fires and termites should
be left to the pro's. Baits are used to control subterranean termites,
which may or may not be what you have.

Good point, which is why I suggested she get a few free inspection. It's my
understanding that if you see mud tubes, you've got the subterranean
variety.

As for cracks, I've watched termites swarm and they emerge from the wood
through holes and slits so tiny they appear to be materializing like magic
on the surface. Perhaps that's what the OP was seeing. Termites also dig
grooves in wood - could be that as well.
They may tunnel very close to the surface but don't cut cracks...more
likely the OP has damaged wood that was an entry.

Hiring exterminators, sadly, is no guarantee you're really getting a
professional and not some spray happy kid whose last job was as a fry cook
at McDonald's. That's why I would recommend talking to more than one
company.

Reputable, as in ref. from a neighbor who is long-term customer.

FWIW, in Australia, the survivors of last year's horrific brush fires were
often the ones that stayed behind to save their own houses. They manned
their generator powered pumps that sprayed a constant stream of water on the
houses to keep embers from landing and igniting. Many died who decided to
evacuate instead, not realizing the fire was all around them.

When the house is on fire, you don't run for buckets at the kitchen
faucet, ya' get out and call 911.

Sometimes, a professional who is a stranger isn't going to care about you or
your possessions the way you would. I've watched enough inspections to know
how to do one as thoroughly as a pro. It's not rocket science nor is it as
foolish as trying to do a root canal on yourself. It requires no special
tools, just a flashlight, a screwdriver and a hammer.

I can do an inspection more thorough than the pros who have been hired
by our condo assn, but the OP was obviously uninformed. Start by
knowing the what, how, why so's one can discuss options intelligently.
More than one kind of termite, and more than one way to treat IF she
actually has termites and not an ant colony.

For me, paying $1000 a year to do what I have been doing successfully myself
for the last five years for under $100 would be tantamount to setting fire
to $900 a year.

How could it cost $1000 a year?

I did, however, mail the carcasses of the dead termites to the Agriculture
folks because the nationwide head of the extension service is three miles
away from here in Beltsville, MD. Once they confirmed that they were
subterranean termites, I felt comfortable I was doing the right thing. It's
saved me $4,500 so far.

The fact that my neighbor, who is professionally treated, still has termites
swarming, bolsters my faith in the stakes and my home treatment plan. YMMV,
though. They appear to use the same treatment, but far less bait tubes.
Why pay $1000 to get less of something you can do for yourself for $100?

Stakes treat subterranean termites, which may or may not be what the OP
has. I live in Florida and the blue tents will be going up
soon...neighbors on both sides of us have been tented within the past 5
yrs. or so...much newer than our condo. We've been tented twice, before
we owned our condo, and the majority of owners in our condo are as
complacent as can be...some don't even let the pc inspector in and the
board doesn't press.

--
Bobby G.

Robert Green wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
Robert Green wrote:

I handled that with Chlordane, an incredibly strong termite killer
but now banned by the EPA. I would walk around the house in March
each year with a mild solution of Chlordane in a watering can. It
was only when that gallon bottle ran out (it lasted nearly 10
years!) that they returned, and that's when I switched to the
Spectracide stakes (bought at Home Depot - 40 stakes for under
$100).


Previously, termite treatment, like Chlordane, was "barrier"
treatment, kinda like the fence on the Mexican border.

Newer chemicals don't kill or even discourage the termites right
away. The workers take the poisoned wood (or their dirty feet) back
to the nest and the chemical shortly kills all of the critters,
including the queen. So instead of a "fence," you nuke Juarez.

You can get the latest incarnation of these new chemicals, Termidor,
on Ebay. You dig a 6" trench around your home, pour in the chemical,
and call it good. Other application methods are possible.

We don't need no steenkin' trenches! (-: Never had to dig with
Chlordane. Now I chuck the 2-1/2" dirt auger bit into a cordless
drill and I can treat the whole house with Spectracide in a hour.
The stakes aren't quite a barrier, but if you ring the house with
them, the effect is the same. They work, as you note, like a Trojan
horse. The workers wheel the poison into the nest, and it's hasta la
vista.

Termite control companies charge my neighbor nearly a thousand
dollars a year to lay down far fewer stakes and they are *always*
finding termites inside. Today was the first over 90 degree day
we've had. I will be checking the basement shortly to see if the
stakes have protected me another year. I hope so!

Chlordane got banned by builders dumping 100's of gallons of
Chlordane into the foundation hole when building. From there, it
entered the aquifier quite easily. It's a potent nerve toxin for
humans. Too bad some cowboys screwed it up for the rest of us.

Termidor ain't cheap.

Spectracide costs $100 per year, and I suppose I *could* get away
with just 20 stakes for $50. But as they said in Aliens, you gotta
nuke 'em. Just to be sure.

I also bury stakes twice as deep as recommended (had to buy a 3'
garden auger for that) because I've read that if you surface treat
for ants, the poison gets into the ground and the termites dig much
deeper than normal to avoid the surface stuff. If they do, they
still run into my low-rider termite stakes.

The new bait tubes even have a spring-loaded bright orange, golf-tee
shaped indicator so that when they eat the bait, a little flag pops
up to let you know there's termite activity. In reality, it more
often lets you know that rainwater has gotten into the bait tube and
dissolved the poison-impregnated cardboard.

Thanks. My info is about a year old. It's amazing what advances have been
made in termite control in just the past few years.

Chlordane is an insecticide that kills on contact. It's like a mine field.
But the invaders just keep pouring hordes against the defenses until they
prevail - termites can breed faster than Chlordane, or any perimeter
defense, can kill them. One breech in the wall, and you're a goner.

You've got to go for the nest, hence the "suicide bomber" technique.

In my youth, we bought creosote by the gallon and poured it around the piers
under the house. Worked very well.

wrote in message
m...
Robert Green wrote:
wrote in message
...

stuff snipped

Find a reputable licensed pest control contractor or two and get an
inspection. Should be done yearly. Fighting fires and termites should
be left to the pro's. Baits are used to control subterranean termites,
which may or may not be what you have.

Good point, which is why I suggested she get a few free inspection.
It's my
understanding that if you see mud tubes, you've got the subterranean
variety.

As for cracks, I've watched termites swarm and they emerge from the wood
through holes and slits so tiny they appear to be materializing like
magic
on the surface. Perhaps that's what the OP was seeing. Termites also
dig
grooves in wood - could be that as well.

They may tunnel very close to the surface but don't cut cracks...more
likely the OP has damaged wood that was an entry.

Agreed. I was trying to say that the "pre-existing" cracks serve as an
escape hatch for the ones that swarm. I've watched them come up from what I
thought was a sealed hardwood floor like the were drops of watering passing
magically through the tiniest of cracks.

Without pictures from the OP we don't quite know *what* the OP saw except
swarming insects. The first thing to do is to pick the leftovers up with
clear tape and tape them to an index card to mail to the local ag. extension
office to make sure what you have.

Hiring exterminators, sadly, is no guarantee you're really getting a
professional and not some spray happy kid whose last job was as a fry
cook
at McDonald's. That's why I would recommend talking to more than one
company.

Reputable, as in ref. from a neighbor who is long-term customer.

Excellent idea. Check the local consumer protection office, if there are
any left. They go with the first round of local gov't budget cuts.

FWIW, in Australia, the survivors of last year's horrific brush fires
were
often the ones that stayed behind to save their own houses. They manned
their generator powered pumps that sprayed a constant stream of water on
the
houses to keep embers from landing and igniting. Many died who decided
to
evacuate instead, not realizing the fire was all around them.

When the house is on fire, you don't run for buckets at the kitchen
faucet, ya' get out and call 911.

Generally good advice, but not always. These people knew that in a large
brush fire, there just weren't enough fire protection resources (fireys) to
protect their homes. Many decided to learn how to prepare their houses for
fires - cutting brush, slate or tin roofing, generators and industrial
strength pumps and firefighting grade large diameter hoses to keep the house
soaked down. If they had not done that, their houses would have burned.

Aussies are tougher birds than Americans, and are quitely willing to take
personal responsibility for things that we leave, sometimes imperfectly, to
our governments. Those who had taken preparations not only saved their own
houses, but the lives of their neighbors, trapped without a way out as their
own unprotected houses burned.

The CFA in Oz is active in training homeowners that choose to stay what they
must do to save their homes and to create a safe place to wait out the fire.
Calling 911 and running from a burning house in a brushfire proved to be
exactly the wrong advice. No one was coming and outside, people quickly
perished in firestorm where they might have survived in a low sheltered area
in the home like a bathtub or even under a blanket soaked in water. Just
like there are different kinds of termites, there are different types of
fires and each has a different solution.

The applicability of that lesson to this situation is that even if you hire
someone, there's a lot you can do on your own to improve your odds of
forcing the termites into your neighbor's house instead of yours. (-:

Sometimes, a professional who is a stranger isn't going to care about
you or
your possessions the way you would. I've watched enough inspections to
know
how to do one as thoroughly as a pro. It's not rocket science nor is it
as
foolish as trying to do a root canal on yourself. It requires no
special
tools, just a flashlight, a screwdriver and a hammer.

I can do an inspection more thorough than the pros who have been hired
by our condo assn, but the OP was obviously uninformed. Start by
knowing the what, how, why so's one can discuss options intelligently.
More than one kind of termite, and more than one way to treat IF she
actually has termites and not an ant colony.

Oddly enough I was going to post the same speech in regards to advice about
NiCads v. Lithium. If the OP didn't even know whether he got a corded or
cordless model (I've done the same buying from the web in a different
context - not touching the item you're buying has consequences) then getting
into the weeds on the many ways NiCads have to die was probably not as
helpful as it seemed. Touche!

It's the first law of systems analysis. Obviously overinforming is an easy
trap to fall into. Thanks for reminding me and saving me from turning into
a hypocrite. I screwed up, but I knew in advance that if I did, someone
would be here to help me. (-:

What I really wanted to make sure got across is that it is possible to
successfully treat at least some kinds of termite infestation on your own.
I believe anyone living where subterranean termites are a threat should lay
down stakes every year. They have worked very well for me, and better, it
seems, than Terminix who treats my neighbor in a nearly identical house.

For me, paying $1000 a year to do what I have been doing successfully
myself
for the last five years for under $100 would be tantamount to setting
fire
to $900 a year.

How could it cost $1000 a year?

I got quotes of $1000 to $1500 for the first treatment but I don't recall
the price of the yearly maintenance. I have to admit (again!) you're right
that ongoing treatment would probably cost less, but I can't say for sure.
If you're unhappy with the first guy, then you'd probably have to start from
scratch with a new company.

I did, however, mail the carcasses of the dead termites to the
Agriculture
folks because the nationwide head of the extension service is three
miles
away from here in Beltsville, MD. Once they confirmed that they were
subterranean termites, I felt comfortable I was doing the right thing.
It's
saved me $4,500 so far.

The fact that my neighbor, who is professionally treated, still has
termites
swarming, bolsters my faith in the stakes and my home treatment plan.
YMMV,
though. They appear to use the same treatment, but far less bait tubes.
Why pay $1000 to get less of something you can do for yourself for $100?

Stakes treat subterranean termites, which may or may not be what the OP
has. I live in Florida and the blue tents will be going up
soon...neighbors on both sides of us have been tented within the past 5
yrs. or so...much newer than our condo. We've been tented twice, before
we owned our condo, and the majority of owners in our condo are as
complacent as can be...some don't even let the pc inspector in and the
board doesn't press.

Yep. That's why I suggested they get at least two pros to come out and give
an inspection. They will tell the OP what they have and what their options
are. I just wanted to let the OP know that in at least in cases like mine,
you can save yourself $100's of dollars - if not thousands - by using
stakes. I also told the OP to look for mud tubes. IIRC, only subterranean
termites run mud tubes from the outside into the house.

In this current recession, $600 or $1500 or anything like that could easily
be outside the reach of a current homeowners. It could be a disservice if
it fails to treat the infestation, I realize. But I really believe a person
of average intelligence (and I think anyone that posts to AHR is actually
above average IQ - most people don't even do basic research) that owns a
strong flashlight and a long shank screwdriver can do every bit as well as
most of the people pest control companies send out if they do their homework
and ask questions as they go along.

--
Bobby G.

On Apr 7, 12:09*pm, "Robert Green" wrote:

Yep. *That's why I suggested they get at least two pros to come out and give
an inspection. *They will tell the OP what they have

That's a huge maybe.

In MT they came up with a requirement for structures to be inspected
and "certified" by a PCO as "termite free" before closing which, of
course, sans treatment, is impossible.

I wouldn't do it, but every other PCO did.

They often also failed to remove visible mud tubes after treatment
leading any subsequent PCO with evidence of termites, but no termites.

It was also not unusual to be called for a bid where 2 other PCOs had
told the HO swarming ants were termites, or get requests for post-
treatment inspections the treating PCOs failed to complete after the
check cleared.

The scumbags have made termite treatment largely a criminal enterprise
and one would be wise to caveat emptor their ass off.

Termites eat slow and breed slow, there is no reason to be in a rush
to treat.

Carpenter ants are another story...
-----

- gpsman

clipped

In this current recession, $600 or $1500 or anything like that could easily
be outside the reach of a current homeowners. It could be a disservice if
it fails to treat the infestation, I realize. But I really believe a person
of average intelligence (and I think anyone that posts to AHR is actually
above average IQ - most people don't even do basic research) that owns a
strong flashlight and a long shank screwdriver can do every bit as well as
most of the people pest control companies send out if they do their homework
and ask questions as they go along.

--
Bobby G.



You have lots of good advice. I haven't made my annual soapbox speech
about the difference between "cheap" and "economical"....money's tight,
so no more take-home supper in lieu of home maint. ) I've lost track
of what our condo assn. pays annually for the termite insurance, but
when last aware it was not a huge cost for 8 homeowners....basically
insurance to cover treatment and repair should treatment/inspection
fail. I have never seen a termite inspection as thorough as what I do
myself, including that done when I sold a home. Someone should start
training classes for "Homeowner 101"...seems the majority don't know the
basics that can save a lot of money and a lot of grief. When the day
comes that banks WANT customers for mortgages, they should offer free
classes so people know what they are buying and how to take care of it
before it all goes to heck with unrecognized problems. Okay, I'm done )

clipped

Termites eat slow and breed slow, there is no reason to be in a rush
to treat.

Carpenter ants are another story...

One of many reasons effective insecticides were banned. I've seen
people dump bag after bag of poison on the ground when all that was
needed was cleanup and repair. CA's often go after termite tunnels and
always after damaged wood. Our condo was in crap shap when my husband
purchased and the two of us did all the outside work that got rid of
CA's....damaged wood siding, dead limbs in hedges, rotted wood fence,
leaky roof, etc.

Did the same with fire ants...small amount of bait/poison placed only
where they had nests (always along pavers and patios) and that treatment
lasted, probably, a year. We did a lot of crawling around on the ground
working on broken down sprinkler system, so it was vital to get rid of
fire ants.

Too many people overtreat, trying to get rid of non-pest insects.
Treating for all the ants in a yard is insane. As long as the normal
insects are outdoors, they aren't pests IMO. Some are really beneficial
and people don't realize that fact.
-----

- gpsman

On Apr 7, 1:02*pm, "
wrote:
clipped



Termites eat slow and breed slow, there is no reason to be in a rush
to treat.

Carpenter ants are another story...

One of many reasons effective insecticides were banned. *I've seen
people dump bag after bag of poison on the ground when all that was
needed was cleanup and repair. *CA's often go after termite tunnels and
always after damaged wood. *Our condo was in crap shap when my husband
purchased and the two of us did all the outside work that got rid of
CA's....damaged wood siding, dead limbs in hedges, rotted wood fence,
leaky roof, etc.

Did the same with fire ants...small amount of bait/poison placed only
where they had nests (always along pavers and patios) and that treatment
lasted, probably, a year. *We did a lot of crawling around on the ground
working on broken down sprinkler system, so it was vital to get rid of
fire ants.

Too many people overtreat, trying to get rid of non-pest insects.
Treating for all the ants in a yard is insane. *As long as the normal
insects are outdoors, they aren't pests IMO. *Some are really beneficial
and people don't realize that fact.

If the ants would STAY outside, fine. They don't so they get carpet
bombed at least twice a year (and that's not really enough).

gpsman wrote:
....

Termites eat slow and breed slow, there is no reason to be in a rush
to treat.
....

OTOH, there are a whole lot of 'em by the time one sees a nest breakout
swarm in all likelihood, plus they've probably been around for several
years by then...

--

On Apr 7, 1:33*pm, dpb wrote:
gpsman wrote:

...

Termites eat slow and breed slow, there is no reason to be in a rush
to treat.

...

OTOH, there are a whole lot of 'em by the time one sees a nest breakout
swarm in all likelihood, plus they've probably been around for several
years by then...

--

Do we even know these insects are termites? The OP didn't say
termites, he just assumed they were. There are other insects that
swarm and do other nasty things.

Hello all,

We live in Georgia. The house has a brick front, with hardiplank sides
and there is some wood trim near the door. The house has NO basement,
just an attic. I saw the swarm near the door and a few hours later,
saw a very thin, and long crack. I assume they are termites, although
don't know for sure. We are seeing some thin mud pipe outside near the
door and also a thin mud pipe inside the house near the door area.

Today, I got some Spectracide foam that says it kills on contact and
sprayed it on the thin cracks outside the house. Not sure it will help
as I no longer see these termites, only the cracks and mud pipes.

Any ideas for inside the home near the door area where we see the mud
pipes? What is suggested here?

I have called Orkin for a free estimate tomorrow.

We just don't want to get ripped off as we are fairly new to termites.
We have had other issues like squirrels in the attic and it ended up
being expensive so just wanted to gather info from yall...

any recommendations regarding Orkin, Terminix, etc.

Thank you all!

On Apr 7, 5:00*pm, "hr(bob) "
wrote:
On Apr 7, 1:33*pm, dpb wrote:

gpsman wrote:

...

Termiteseat slow and breed slow, there is no reason to be in a rush
to treat.

...

OTOH, there are a whole lot of 'em by the time one sees a nest breakout
swarm in all likelihood, plus they've probably been around for several
years by then...

--

Do we even know these insects aretermites? *The OP didn't saytermites, he just assumed they were. There are other insects that
swarm and do other nasty things.

"lora" wrote

A few days ago, we saw a swarm of winged insects near the edge of the
door in the wooden part. Then later, they had carved small cracks in
the wood.

OOPS! Takes several years of established colony before you see a swarm.
Don't panic though. You may have minimal damage as of yet. You definately
need a *professional* though to come out.

The big names are Orkin and Terminex. Of the 2, Terminex uses a chemical
that lasts at best 2 years. Same as the little companies that cost 600$ to
treat an active infestatiuon. It will come *back* if you are in a high
termite area. Trust me. Been there.

Orkin uses one good for 15 YEARS. I wasted alot of money on the '600$
stuff' until it hit almost needing to tent the house to save it.

Is there any kind of recommended spray/chemical that would get rid of
any possible termites living inside of it?

THere are but the ones that handle the swarm level are not available over
the counter.

Anything non-toxic would be great.

There is no such thing. It's a chemical that KILLS termites.

Also, do you recommend putting termite baits outside the property to
repel them? anything else we can do?

They only will show you that you have them. They do not actually 'repel'
although they may 'divert' them from another structure for a short time.

And if we do end up calling termite companies, what is a reasonable
price for the initial application? I emailed one and got a quote of
$600 which seemed really high.

You have a swarm. I gather that means in general 7 YEARS of termite colony.
No one will give you a policy to protect against any further damage and
warantee killing the colony for 600$. Aint gonna happen.

I pay 74$ a month. Next year, it drops down but i had to pay for initial
major treatment to kill the colony. Knocking a few mud tubes out wasnt
gonna fix what was already in the walls. The payment covers in a pro-rated
way by installments for the initial fix.

I hope i dont **** anyone off, but you've gotten some really good and some
really bad advice and I havent even read most of it.

In fact, i dont really care if I '****ed anyone off'. What matters is you
describe an actual swarm and that means several years of infestation so you
have to work from that angle. I'd like to help with some actual experience
in one who hit that level after several '600$ fixes' wasted my money.

Let me know if you have any ideas. We are newbies to this sort of
problem.

So was I until I painfully learned.
Carol

lora wrote:
Hello all,

We live in Georgia. The house has a brick front, with hardiplank sides
and there is some wood trim near the door. The house has NO basement,
just an attic. I saw the swarm near the door and a few hours later,
saw a very thin, and long crack. I assume they are termites, although
don't know for sure. We are seeing some thin mud pipe outside near the
door and also a thin mud pipe inside the house near the door area.

Today, I got some Spectracide foam that says it kills on contact and
sprayed it on the thin cracks outside the house. Not sure it will help
as I no longer see these termites, only the cracks and mud pipes.

Any ideas for inside the home near the door area where we see the mud
pipes? What is suggested here?

I have called Orkin for a free estimate tomorrow.

We just don't want to get ripped off as we are fairly new to termites.
We have had other issues like squirrels in the attic and it ended up
being expensive so just wanted to gather info from yall...

any recommendations regarding Orkin, Terminix, etc.

Thank you all!

Some of the large termite companies have sub-contractors, so a brand
name doesn't mean a whole lot. There might be a local, independent pest
control contractor.

You should find a resource for your locality, like county extension
service...ours in Florida have loads of expert personnel and
information. Ours will ID insect pests, have entomologists on staff. I
can't stress enough the advantage of being familiar with prevention,
identification and treatment for termites and other problems. Sounds
like your house needs to be secured against pests and weather.

The "mud pipes" sound like mud tubes that subterranean termites build to
go from ground to wood. If you scrape away the tube, it is one means of
determining whether termites are still active...they will rebuild the
tube if still active THERE. If you tap wood surfaces around doors and
windows especially, a sign of termite infestation is a hollow sound in
comparison to more solid areas...if you find hollow sounding spots, dig
at them and probably will reveal termite tunnels if that is the problem.
Termites avoid daylight, so the reason for mud tubes and for tunnels
remaining just beneath the surface of the wood. They create small,
round openings in the surface to push out their poop. Another sign is
wrinkling of drywall surface, not especially obvious, where they burrow
through the paper covering of the wallboard. Look carefully around the
areas of concern for shed wings or small holes (about size of pencil
lead) and possibly fine, dark colored granules that is their excreta.

They will eat anything containing cellulose, including wood, paper and
furniture. If there is paper stored in the areas, check it out. If
there are areas of wood on exterior in need of paint or repair, check
them as well. Uncaulked gaps around doors and windows, entries for
electical and plumbing...open up plumbing access panels and inspect
there. If there are trees or shrubs in contact with the structure, trim
them. ALL wood should be at least 6-8" above grade...wood in contact
with soil will just about guarantee termite problems. One especiall bad
practice has been to extend stucco down below grade, giving termites a
very comfy, cozy means to reach wood without being visible. If wood has
an odd wrinkled texture, kind of like old parchment paper, poke around
with a screw-driver to see if the wood is sound; if it isn't, dig around
and you will be able to expose tunnels.

There are quite a variety of species of termites, and one of the worst
is the Formosan (subterranean)...cause a lot of damage, New Orleans was
the first area of southern US to have severe problems with them.
Termites occur just about anywhere there is wood, and are part of
nature's way of "recycling"...normal in the ground, in the woods, but
not in the house )

If you do have termites, you need to address the issue but it is not an
emergency...just take the time to learn and find reputable contractors.

Here are some links to termite info:

Georgia:
http://www.caes.uga.edu/departments/.../termites.html
http://www.caes.uga.edu/extension/office.cfm
Florida:
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ig098
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ig097

On Apr 7, 11:37*pm, "
wrote:

Some of the large termite companies have sub-contractors, so a brand
name doesn't mean a whole lot.

The major national PC companies are nothing more than franchise
organizations.

Those "names" means you're going to get ****ed, hard, long and deep,
which seems like a whole lot, at least from here.

You jackasses who don't know **** from apple butter would best serve
this group by playing with your peters instead of passing out
sandwiches.
-----

- gpsman

gpsman wrote:
On Apr 7, 11:37 pm, "
wrote:
Some of the large termite companies have sub-contractors, so a brand
name doesn't mean a whole lot.

The major national PC companies are nothing more than franchise
organizations.

Those "names" means you're going to get ****ed, hard, long and deep,
which seems like a whole lot, at least from here.

You jackasses who don't know **** from apple butter would best serve
this group by playing with your peters instead of passing out
sandwiches.
-----

- gpsman

Have you considered adding some useful information from your font of
knowledge, or are you just hanging out to smear your crap all over the
newsgroup?

Our condo has dealt with a "major" national company...have gotten
excellent service. Had ANY of the unit owners or board members taken
any interest in termite problems, their bldg. probably would not have
needed a second tenting. None ever bothered to make even minimal effort
to correct issues that welcome termite infestations.

Whether dealing with a "major" or some loser who took a three-day
course, the HO needs to understand the problem before they go about
correcting (or trying to) it.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
Robert Green wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
Robert Green wrote:

I handled that with Chlordane, an incredibly strong termite killer
but now banned by the EPA. I would walk around the house in March
each year with a mild solution of Chlordane in a watering can. It
was only when that gallon bottle ran out (it lasted nearly 10
years!) that they returned, and that's when I switched to the
Spectracide stakes (bought at Home Depot - 40 stakes for under
$100).


Previously, termite treatment, like Chlordane, was "barrier"
treatment, kinda like the fence on the Mexican border.

Newer chemicals don't kill or even discourage the termites right
away. The workers take the poisoned wood (or their dirty feet) back
to the nest and the chemical shortly kills all of the critters,
including the queen. So instead of a "fence," you nuke Juarez.

You can get the latest incarnation of these new chemicals, Termidor,
on Ebay. You dig a 6" trench around your home, pour in the chemical,
and call it good. Other application methods are possible.

We don't need no steenkin' trenches! (-: Never had to dig with
Chlordane. Now I chuck the 2-1/2" dirt auger bit into a cordless
drill and I can treat the whole house with Spectracide in a hour.
The stakes aren't quite a barrier, but if you ring the house with
them, the effect is the same. They work, as you note, like a Trojan
horse. The workers wheel the poison into the nest, and it's hasta la
vista.

Termite control companies charge my neighbor nearly a thousand
dollars a year to lay down far fewer stakes and they are *always*
finding termites inside. Today was the first over 90 degree day
we've had. I will be checking the basement shortly to see if the
stakes have protected me another year. I hope so!

Chlordane got banned by builders dumping 100's of gallons of
Chlordane into the foundation hole when building. From there, it
entered the aquifier quite easily. It's a potent nerve toxin for
humans. Too bad some cowboys screwed it up for the rest of us.

Termidor ain't cheap.

Spectracide costs $100 per year, and I suppose I *could* get away
with just 20 stakes for $50. But as they said in Aliens, you gotta
nuke 'em. Just to be sure.

I also bury stakes twice as deep as recommended (had to buy a 3'
garden auger for that) because I've read that if you surface treat
for ants, the poison gets into the ground and the termites dig much
deeper than normal to avoid the surface stuff. If they do, they
still run into my low-rider termite stakes.

The new bait tubes even have a spring-loaded bright orange, golf-tee
shaped indicator so that when they eat the bait, a little flag pops
up to let you know there's termite activity. In reality, it more
often lets you know that rainwater has gotten into the bait tube and
dissolved the poison-impregnated cardboard.

Thanks. My info is about a year old. It's amazing what advances have been
made in termite control in just the past few years.

The data on stakes was sort of sketchy when I started using them, with some
people complaining that they still had problems. I confess that I use twice
the recommended number, but that's because I believe (from what the Ag.
people said) that we have what they call "supercolony" in the park behind my
house where the ground is always moist because it used to be an area spring.
The agent said that practices like storing firewood in contact with the
ground (my neighbor had a huge pile of all sorts of lumber in his backyard)
helps in the formation of extremely large colonies of termites.

Chlordane is an insecticide that kills on contact. It's like a mine field.
But the invaders just keep pouring hordes against the defenses until they
prevail - termites can breed faster than Chlordane, or any perimeter
defense, can kill them. One breech in the wall, and you're a goner.

I was successful for quite a few years until it ran out, and when it did,
they came back like gangbusters. But I also did a double-strength double
treatment when I did the walkaround. They just spread out from the nest in
all directions, all the time, scouting for new food sources. They are
relentless.

You've got to go for the nest, hence the "suicide bomber" technique.

It's an ingenious method, indeed. Here, little termite, have some delicious
cardboard (they REALLY like cardboard). Be sure to share with your
co-workers and the queen!

In my youth, we bought creosote by the gallon and poured it around the
piers under the house. Worked very well.

Can you still buy creosote? I thought it got banned by the EPA, too.

--
Bobby G.

wrote in message
m...
clipped

Termites eat slow and breed slow, there is no reason to be in a rush
to treat.

Carpenter ants are another story...

One of many reasons effective insecticides were banned. I've seen
people dump bag after bag of poison on the ground when all that was
needed was cleanup and repair.

Pumping 500 gallons of Chlordane into new home's foundation hole was
inexcusable. It prevented termite damage for years, but at the cost of
eliminating reasonable use of the chemical by sane people because so much of
it got into the groundwater.

--
Bobby G.

Robert Green wrote:
wrote in message
m...
clipped
Termites eat slow and breed slow, there is no reason to be in a rush
to treat.

Carpenter ants are another story...
One of many reasons effective insecticides were banned. I've seen
people dump bag after bag of poison on the ground when all that was
needed was cleanup and repair.

Pumping 500 gallons of Chlordane into new home's foundation hole was
inexcusable. It prevented termite damage for years, but at the cost of
eliminating reasonable use of the chemical by sane people because so much of
it got into the groundwater.

--
Bobby G.


From what I've read about barrier treatments, it sounds like a gamble.
Allegedly, barriers must remain undisturbed, so one depends on a
day-labor employee of a sub-contractor to mix the stuff right and be
SURE to saturate to the right depth around entire perimeter. Then the
new HO moves in, plants some stuff or builds a deck and the barrier is
disrupted. Oh, and there was probably a ter. colony under the home,
inside the perimeter. I kinda' think hell will freeze first )

"gpsman" wrote in message
...
On Apr 7, 12:09 pm, "Robert Green" wrote:

Yep. That's why I suggested they get at least two pros to come out and
give
an inspection. They will tell the OP what they have

That's a huge maybe.

Agreed. As I said, you don't know whether you're getting a true
professional or a kid who was a fry cook at MickyD's last month. Best bet
is to use some clear tape, pick up some carcasses with it and send it to
your local Ag. extension office. They don't have a financial incentive to
make you think flying ants are termites but PCO's do.

In MT they came up with a requirement for structures to be inspected
and "certified" by a PCO as "termite free" before closing which, of
course, sans treatment, is impossible.

Are you a Big Sky guy? The first house I bought, I got screwed because I
didn't realize that the words "no live termite infestation" on the
inspection report wasn't the same as "No evidence of termites." The first
phrase meant that there was previous termite damage and that they would
likely be back.

I wouldn't do it, but every other PCO did.

They often also failed to remove visible mud tubes after treatment
leading any subsequent PCO with evidence of termites, but no termites.

That's just plain idiotic and why I feel confident I can do a better job
simply because I have a bigger stake in the outcome. I make sure that the
tubes are not just scraped cleaned, but washed off and treated with Home
Depot's anemic termite spray. You have to do that to make sure that any mud
tubes you see are new ones.

It was also not unusual to be called for a bid where 2 other PCOs had
told the HO swarming ants were termites, or get requests for post-
treatment inspections the treating PCOs failed to complete after the
check cleared.

The guys I got at least knew their business. I wanted the inspection to
confirm my own findings, and it did. They didn't give me any useful tips
that Google hadn't already supplied. In fact, that's how I first heard
about stakes.

The first PCO wanted to drill deep holes around the foundation of my
basement from the inside and pump termicide into the holes. I didn't like
the sound of that and I wondered how it was going to help if the entry was
high up, like the termites that got into my neighbor's house via the cable
TV entryway. I decided to try self-treatment instead and so far, so good.

The scumbags have made termite treatment largely a criminal enterprise
and one would be wise to caveat emptor their ass off.

I got the strong feeling that the price was dependent on their read of the
client's smarts, lifestyle and how thick their wallet was. If you drive a
Mercedes, park it somewhere else when you're getting a quote and at least do
your basic research on line.

Termites eat slow and breed slow, there is no reason to be in a rush
to treat.

Mostly. If you're a new homeowner and you go into your basement on the
first warm day of spring to find 100's of slow flying bugs shedding their
wings and coupling like little subway cars, it's hard not to feel a little
bit of panic. The bad PCO's thrive on that fear and charge for it. (-:

Carpenter ants are another story...

Anyone read "Leningen v. the Ants" by H.G. Wells? Made into at least one
bad movie starring the perpetual scifi movie start, Charlton Heston.

--
Bobby G.

Robert Green wrote:

In my youth, we bought creosote by the gallon and poured it around
the piers under the house. Worked very well.

Can you still buy creosote? I thought it got banned by the EPA, too.

Nah, not banned. According to Wikipedia, it's the most widely used wood
preservative in the world. When I was a kid, we had a creosote plant down
the street. They took, mostly, tree trunks and turned them into telephone
poles.

The tree trunks came in on railroad flat cars which went into a GIANT
pressure cooker - car and all. After a couple of hours of heat-impregnating
with the creosote, a switch engine pulled the flatcar with the finished
product out and inserted another. I think they also did railroad ties and
piers.

wrote in message
m...
lora wrote:

stuff snipped

The "mud pipes" sound like mud tubes that subterranean termites build to
go from ground to wood. If you scrape away the tube, it is one means of
determining whether termites are still active...they will rebuild the
tube if still active THERE. If you tap wood surfaces around doors and
windows especially, a sign of termite infestation is a hollow sound in
comparison to more solid areas...if you find hollow sounding spots, dig
at them and probably will reveal termite tunnels if that is the problem.

The classic method of finding out you have termites is opening the basement
door to have it just fall to the ground. They are experts at eating away
everything of structural substance yet leaving things looking quite intact.

Termites avoid daylight, so the reason for mud tubes and for tunnels
remaining just beneath the surface of the wood. They create small,
round openings in the surface to push out their poop. Another sign is
wrinkling of drywall surface, not especially obvious, where they burrow
through the paper covering of the wallboard. Look carefully around the
areas of concern for shed wings or small holes (about size of pencil
lead) and possibly fine, dark colored granules that is their excreta.

Did you know that some archeologists believe that man's brain surpassed the
animals once he learned that by following the marks other animals made, he
could find himself a meal? The shed wings are the biggest giveway to their
presence. I remember opening a basement closet door of a house that had
belonged to mobster Joe Profaci that we were thinking of buying to see
spider webs full of termite wings. Curiously, every door in the house
locked from both the inside and the outside. We ended up not buying out of
fear some old enemy might not have known he had moved. But I digress!

They will eat anything containing cellulose, including wood, paper and
furniture. If there is paper stored in the areas, check it out. If
there are areas of wood on exterior in need of paint or repair, check
them as well. Uncaulked gaps around doors and windows, entries for
electical and plumbing...open up plumbing access panels and inspect
there. If there are trees or shrubs in contact with the structure, trim
them. ALL wood should be at least 6-8" above grade...wood in contact
with soil will just about guarantee termite problems. One especiall bad
practice has been to extend stucco down below grade, giving termites a
very comfy, cozy means to reach wood without being visible. If wood has
an odd wrinkled texture, kind of like old parchment paper, poke around
with a screw-driver to see if the wood is sound; if it isn't, dig around
and you will be able to expose tunnels.

Very good advice. I can see you've earned several campaign medals in the
never-ending war against The Termites.

There are quite a variety of species of termites, and one of the worst
is the Formosan (subterranean)...cause a lot of damage, New Orleans was
the first area of southern US to have severe problems with them.
Termites occur just about anywhere there is wood, and are part of
nature's way of "recycling"...normal in the ground, in the woods, but
not in the house )

If you do have termites, you need to address the issue but it is not an
emergency...just take the time to learn and find reputable contractors.

Here are some links to termite info:

Georgia:
http://www.caes.uga.edu/departments/.../termites.html
http://www.caes.uga.edu/extension/office.cfm
Florida:
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ig098
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ig097

Good advice.

--
Bobby G.

wrote in message
m...
clipped

In this current recession, $600 or $1500 or anything like that could
easily
be outside the reach of a current homeowners. It could be a disservice
if
it fails to treat the infestation, I realize. But I really believe a
person
of average intelligence (and I think anyone that posts to AHR is
actually
above average IQ - most people don't even do basic research) that owns a
strong flashlight and a long shank screwdriver can do every bit as well
as
most of the people pest control companies send out if they do their
homework
and ask questions as they go along.

--
Bobby G.



You have lots of good advice. I haven't made my annual soapbox speech
about the difference between "cheap" and "economical"....

Yes - I am well acquainted with the old Spanish proverb, Lo barato sale
caro - The cheap becomes the expensive.

I have never seen a termite inspection as thorough as what I do
myself, including that done when I sold a home.

You've got skin (and wood) in the game. (-: That makes your motivation a
lot higher than some kid or parolee making minimum wage.

Someone should start training classes for "Homeowner 101"

What I saw in the last housing bubble were a lot of people who had heard
that owning your own home was the ticket to wealth building, but who really
had no idea what that entailed, many of them having been renters all their
lives. They had no idea that when the roof leaked, the toilet plugged or
termites swarmed that it was all theirs to deal with.

A friend who lied profoundly about her income didn't have one thin dime to
sink into repairs, had not budgeted for it and didn't understand the terms
of her ARM. She's still in the house, but only because the banks have found
that the property remains in better shape occupied than vacant. Also, the
banks are trying to avoid saturating the market with foreclosures. My motto
is: If you don't know how to use a power drill, don't buy a house.

seems the majority don't know the
basics that can save a lot of money and a lot of grief. When the day
comes that banks WANT customers for mortgages, they should offer free
classes so people know what they are buying and how to take care of it
before it all goes to heck with unrecognized problems. Okay, I'm done )

I hear you! Hopefully the OP will get her termite problems solved with a
minimum of cost and destruction. It could be well worth her time watching
the professionals closely the first time around. When I do that, I
invariably pick up some important tips. Sometimes, I decide that hiring
someone is actually money well spent. I do don't my own plumbing anymore,
although I did at one time but I still do my own wiring. I know I'm not a
good solderer, so I leave that to the pros unless it involves compression
fittings and not soldered joints.

I've saved thousands of dollars doing my own handywork (well, I've bought
thousands of dollars of tools that I would have spent hiring someone!).
It's a shame that because of liability issues many schools no longer have
meaningful shop programs. Fewer and fewer of the youngsters I run into know
a jig saw from a radial arm saw or even the basics like putting up a set of
shelves that are plumb. /sermon over!

--
Bobby G.

Robert Green wrote:
wrote in message
m...
lora wrote:

stuff snipped

The "mud pipes" sound like mud tubes that subterranean termites build to
go from ground to wood. If you scrape away the tube, it is one means of
determining whether termites are still active...they will rebuild the
tube if still active THERE. If you tap wood surfaces around doors and
windows especially, a sign of termite infestation is a hollow sound in
comparison to more solid areas...if you find hollow sounding spots, dig
at them and probably will reveal termite tunnels if that is the problem.

The classic method of finding out you have termites is opening the basement
door to have it just fall to the ground. They are experts at eating away
everything of structural substance yet leaving things looking quite intact.

Termites avoid daylight, so the reason for mud tubes and for tunnels
remaining just beneath the surface of the wood. They create small,
round openings in the surface to push out their poop. Another sign is
wrinkling of drywall surface, not especially obvious, where they burrow
through the paper covering of the wallboard. Look carefully around the
areas of concern for shed wings or small holes (about size of pencil
lead) and possibly fine, dark colored granules that is their excreta.

Did you know that some archeologists believe that man's brain surpassed the
animals once he learned that by following the marks other animals made, he
could find himself a meal? The shed wings are the biggest giveway to their
presence. I remember opening a basement closet door of a house that had
belonged to mobster Joe Profaci that we were thinking of buying to see
spider webs full of termite wings. Curiously, every door in the house
locked from both the inside and the outside. We ended up not buying out of
fear some old enemy might not have known he had moved. But I digress!

They will eat anything containing cellulose, including wood, paper and
furniture. If there is paper stored in the areas, check it out. If
there are areas of wood on exterior in need of paint or repair, check
them as well. Uncaulked gaps around doors and windows, entries for
electical and plumbing...open up plumbing access panels and inspect
there. If there are trees or shrubs in contact with the structure, trim
them. ALL wood should be at least 6-8" above grade...wood in contact
with soil will just about guarantee termite problems. One especiall bad
practice has been to extend stucco down below grade, giving termites a
very comfy, cozy means to reach wood without being visible. If wood has
an odd wrinkled texture, kind of like old parchment paper, poke around
with a screw-driver to see if the wood is sound; if it isn't, dig around
and you will be able to expose tunnels.

Very good advice. I can see you've earned several campaign medals in the
never-ending war against The Termites.

If you live in Florida, you will someday have to deal with termites. My
husband was a retiree-building manager in our condo for about 4 years.
Prior to that, it had been badly neglected - no mgt. company, owners
mostly paying for their worthless trust-fund babies who never learned to
work or take responsibility. Bunch of losers let the place fall into
horrid condition - I guess I instictively like challenges and got a real
education in learning what to do and how to do it on the cheap. I had
never lived in a neighborhood as expensive as this or with neighbors as
totally worthless ) What I learned along the way was valuable, and my
kids are pretty much on top of the things they need to do to keep their
homes in good shape....guess when you pay for it yourself, it is more
valuable )

clipped

What I saw in the last housing bubble were a lot of people who had heard
that owning your own home was the ticket to wealth building, but who really
had no idea what that entailed, many of them having been renters all their
lives. They had no idea that when the roof leaked, the toilet plugged or
termites swarmed that it was all theirs to deal with.

A friend who lied profoundly about her income didn't have one thin dime to
sink into repairs, had not budgeted for it and didn't understand the terms
of her ARM. She's still in the house, but only because the banks have found
that the property remains in better shape occupied than vacant. Also, the
banks are trying to avoid saturating the market with foreclosures. My motto
is: If you don't know how to use a power drill, don't buy a house.

Buying a home is the only reason to learn for a lot of
people...including my daughters. Neither one patient enough to wait til
daddy gets home. Of course, they didn't want my help when they were 3
or 4 and haven't changed in that respect )

seems the majority don't know the
basics that can save a lot of money and a lot of grief. When the day
comes that banks WANT customers for mortgages, they should offer free
classes so people know what they are buying and how to take care of it
before it all goes to heck with unrecognized problems. Okay, I'm done )

I hear you! Hopefully the OP will get her termite problems solved with a
minimum of cost and destruction. It could be well worth her time watching
the professionals closely the first time around. When I do that, I
invariably pick up some important tips. Sometimes, I decide that hiring
someone is actually money well spent. I do don't my own plumbing anymore,
although I did at one time but I still do my own wiring. I know I'm not a
good solderer, so I leave that to the pros unless it involves compression
fittings and not soldered joints.

I've saved thousands of dollars doing my own handywork (well, I've bought
thousands of dollars of tools that I would have spent hiring someone!).

If you leave a widow, she can have a heck of a garage sale )

My mom had her own workshop and power tools when she passed away at age
82. For her 80th birthday, she decided to give herself a gift and hire
someone to clean the eavestroughs. They didn't do it up to her
standards, so she resumed doing it herself. Scared the neighbors when
she got up on a ladder but she got the job done ) She built her own
kitchen cabinets many years before, having millwork done. Dad had no
interest in any kind of home repair, and it was probably a wise choice )

It's a shame that because of liability issues many schools no longer have
meaningful shop programs. Fewer and fewer of the youngsters I run into know
a jig saw from a radial arm saw or even the basics like putting up a set of
shelves that are plumb. /sermon over!

People can learn anything they want to learn. My mom used to get
irritated with people who remarked at how talented she was. She was
kind of right, because she felt she didn't do anything that could not be
done by everyone else. After she passed away, I found a little bundle
of newspaper clippings on "how to" quite a few things she had saved,
from the 1920's...and I used to get bored out of my mind when she
watched "Walt's Workshop" in the early days of TV.
--
Bobby G.

wrote in message news:Z6-

stuff snipped

If you don't know how to use a power drill, don't buy a house.

I've saved thousands of dollars doing my own handiwork (well, I've
bought thousands of dollars of tools that I would have spent hiring
someone!).

If you leave a widow, she can have a heck of a garage sale )

The payoff comes slowly. Each job I buy a tool for makes the next similar
job that much cheaper. I've got a pretty respectable set of "kits" for
cable TV, electrical work, woodworking, auto repair and plumbing. One thing
I learned on-line is that the right tool can cut the job time by more than
half.

Not sure how I would rank order the tools I use the most:

Drills and cordless screwdrivers are high on the list, so is my radial arm
saw, the many special purpose staplers, wrench sets, hammers, etc. I have a
Roto-Zip tool I was hypnotized into buying by some late night infomercial
that I haven't even used yet. Ditto for the cut-off saw. I bought it to
cut holes for new boxes in old plaster and lathe, but it turned out an old
jigsaw did a better job.

My mom had her own workshop and power tools when she passed away
at age 82. For her 80th birthday, she decided to give herself a gift and
hire
someone to clean the eavestroughs. They didn't do it up to her
standards, so she resumed doing it herself. Scared the neighbors when
she got up on a ladder but she got the job done )

Good for her! I know some women that have impressive toolkits, but I also
remember one girlfriend using a finely honed wood chisel as a screwdriver
and pry bar. The HORROR!!!!

She built her own
kitchen cabinets many years before, having millwork done. Dad had no
interest in any kind of home repair, and it was probably a wise choice )

My dad was a fair handyman, but the real prize went to my uncle who doubled
the size of his house with additions he designed and built himself. It was
all inspector approved, too!

I was a very avid woodworker, building my own bookcases, stereo cabinets and
even desks out of white and red oak that are still kicking when I was in my
early twenties. I lost interest in it after a lung spot scare that my doc
said could be from oak dust. Even with masks, vacuum systems, etc. you know
that oak is getting into your bloodstream because you can taste that very
strange taste on your tongue.

It's a shame that because of liability issues many schools no longer
have
meaningful shop programs. Fewer and fewer of the youngsters I run into
know a jig saw from a radial arm saw or even the basics like putting up
a
set of shelves that are plumb. /sermon over!

People can learn anything they want to learn.

That's just it. The kids who've worked for me not only don't want to learn
how to repair typical household breakdowns, they feel it's beneath them. I
did have one young man work for me whose father, an AF Colonel, gave him
nothing but tools for his birthdays and Christmas. He was extremely good at
fixing things and doing his own (and my!) car maintenance. I can't
understand why people wouldn't want to be self-reliant or at least
understand enough about plumbing, electricity and so on to be able to know
what they are paying for when they hire someone.

I remind the kids that feel being "handy" is beneath them that the one of
the world's smartest dudes, Leonardo Da Vinci, clearly didn't mind get his
hands dirty. Who are they to cop an attitude? (-:

--
Bobby G.

wrote in message

stuff snipped

If you live in Florida, you will someday have to deal with termites.

If I live in Florida, it will be when senility is so bad, I don't even
*know* I am living there. No offense, but the place is already under
"smite" with bugs you can saddle and rife, swamps full of gators, the
occasional superhurricane and more.

Plus, it's the US's drop off point for South America cocaine cartels and
it's run by crooks who want to buy US Sugar's swamp in the biggest swamp
scam since the first piece of underwater property was ever sold there. (My
uncle, a reasonable smart man with advanced engineering degrees, bought 3
acres for a vacation home, not noticing (they worked hard to conceal it)
that the land was under water, deep in a swamp.)

I've visited during the rainy season, when they turn the ocean upside down
and hold it over DisneyWorld for a few hours. Did I mention the mold? I've
never seen mold grow so fast and so thick.

The only good thing about Florida is that if you're lucky you can find
things like 9 foot gold chains washed ashore from sunken galleons after a
big enough storm. Did I mention the world class hurricanes? (-: When my
dad sad he was going to retire to Florida because they had very favorable
retiree tax laws, I told him: "Let's say our goodbyes now!" I remember my
poor co-worker driving INTO hurricane Andrew because he wasn't sure his
vacation home was secured well enough. He told me that the looters were far
better armed than the National Guard sent to protect the civilians.

OK, it's not really that bad, but there are some serious reasons to consider
living elsewhere. (-: Sorry all you Floridians, but I don't hold my own
state in very high esteem either, since we were the ones that gave the US
Spiro Agnew. It's nothing personal. I just hate bugs. And hurricanes.
And alligators. And mold.

My
husband was a retiree-building manager in our condo for about 4 years.
Prior to that, it had been badly neglected - no mgt. company, owners
mostly paying for their worthless trust-fund babies who never learned to
work or take responsibility.

It's sad when a few minutes of maintenance might have averted a larger
disaster. I have a friend who was driving around with her brakes making a
horrible scraping noise. She really had no idea that letting that go meant
she would have to pay for a new set of rotors, not just brake pads.

Bunch of losers let the place fall into
horrid condition - I guess I instictively like challenges and got a real
education in learning what to do and how to do it on the cheap.

Ah, but if there were no losers, where would handy people get great bargains
on fixer-uppers? It's all part of God's great plan.

I had
never lived in a neighborhood as expensive as this or with neighbors as
totally worthless ) What I learned along the way was valuable, and my
kids are pretty much on top of the things they need to do to keep their
homes in good shape....guess when you pay for it yourself, it is more
valuable )

I was surprised at how many young people think that getting your hands dirty
makes you a member of the lower class. I've met many a carpenter and
cabinetmaker that are true artists and take rightful pride in the quality of
their work. It's almost like being proud of being stupid to say "that's
beneath me" when it comes to snaking a drain or putting up weatherstripping.

What's funny is that three of those 'trust fund babies' actually liked
learning how to use a power drill once someone showed them how. I think
claiming it's beneath them is often a cover for "no one taught me" and "I am
not motivated enough to teach myself."

--
Bobby G.