OT Toyota

If it's not the carpet that's causing Toyatas to speed up, then how
can replacing the gas pedal help?

How many of you are still driving your Toyota?


Would you have thought to put the car in neutral if it's speeding up?

On Jan 30, 6:36*pm, mm wrote:
OT *Toyota

If it's not the carpet that's causing Toyatas to speed up, then how
can replacing the gas pedal help?

How many of you are still driving your Toyota?

Would you have thought to put the car in neutral if it's speeding up?

How would I know? My foot is always in the carburetor, so to speak,
anyway.

I've got a 2009 Matrix. The first week I had the thing I replaced the
floor mats with some big rubber ones that can handle a lot of melting
snow from my shoes. Then later on I heard they were having problems
but thought I had that solved already. Now I guess that must not have
been the problem.

I Haven't had a problem yet but if I do I figure I would try to get it
out of gear and turn the engine off as soon as possible. If I'm
already going at a good clip I am not sure how it would handle if I
just turn off the ignition. Are newer cars set up to handle like older
cars that had no power steering if the engine is dead and you lose
your power steering?

Until I get more information, I'm saying take it out of gear and don't
turn the engine off until you have slowed down quite a bit.

David

On Jan 30, 6:36*pm, mm wrote:
OT *Toyota

If it's not the carpet that's causing Toyatas to speed up, then how
can replacing the gas pedal help?

How many of you are still driving your Toyota?

Would you have thought to put the car in neutral if it's speeding up?

I think it is more then that.
I think a more likely scenario would be the sensor that translates
pedal movement
to a position signal that the computer can understand.
The first thought that came to mind if that ever happened to me is to
slam the breaks
on in the hopes of stalling the engine.

"mm" wrote in message
...
OT Toyota

If it's not the carpet that's causing Toyatas to speed up, then how
can replacing the gas pedal help?

How many of you are still driving your Toyota?


Would you have thought to put the car in neutral if it's speeding up?



What's the matter with the Toyota thread already going ???

mm wrote:
OT Toyota

If it's not the carpet that's causing Toyatas to speed up, then how
can replacing the gas pedal help?

How many of you are still driving your Toyota?


Would you have thought to put the car in neutral if it's speeding up?

Some cars, Toyota probably, can't be shifted at speed.

Can you imagine what would happen if, while you're driving along Route 101
enjoying the scenery, your girlfriend squirmed around with an urgent need to
put her face in your lap and in so doing hit the shift lever?

mm wrote:
OT Toyota

If it's not the carpet that's causing Toyatas to speed up, then how
can replacing the gas pedal help?

I couldn't find the article I saw this in again. The problem is
moisture getting into the accelerator somehow. Symptoms of a possible
problem include the accelerator being harder to depress, not operating
smoothly, and or not returning to the upper position.

There are two separate and not at all related recalls, the mat and a problem
with the gas pedal mechinism.


"mm" wrote in message
...
OT Toyota

If it's not the carpet that's causing Toyatas to speed up, then how
can replacing the gas pedal help?

How many of you are still driving your Toyota?


Would you have thought to put the car in neutral if it's speeding up?

"Dean Hoffman" wrote in message
...
mm wrote:
OT Toyota

If it's not the carpet that's causing Toyatas to speed up, then how
can replacing the gas pedal help?

I couldn't find the article I saw this in again. The problem is
moisture getting into the accelerator somehow. Symptoms of a possible
problem include the accelerator being harder to depress, not operating
smoothly, and or not returning to the upper position.

There was a clip on CNN today that had a driver who said that he got a toe
under the gas pedal and pulled it up with no effect.
Could this be related to something like cruise control that pulls the pedal
down as it rengages?
The worry is that new or revised gas pedals will not turn out to be the
right answer.

Charlie

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 19:46:43 -0600, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

mm wrote:
OT Toyota

If it's not the carpet that's causing Toyatas to speed up, then how
can replacing the gas pedal help?

I couldn't find the article I saw this in again. The problem is
moisture getting into the accelerator somehow. Symptoms of a possible
problem include the accelerator being harder to depress, not operating
smoothly, and or not returning to the upper position.

Well none of that is the pedal. They were still talking about the
actual pedal on Friday, the thing your foot rests on, right?

Then today Saturday they announced something but it's still about the
pedal, right?

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 15:55:27 -0800 (PST), hibb
wrote:


I Haven't had a problem yet but if I do I figure I would try to get it
out of gear and turn the engine off as soon as possible. If I'm
already going at a good clip I am not sure how it would handle if I
just turn off the ignition. Are newer cars set up to handle like older
cars that had no power steering if the engine is dead and you lose
your power steering?

It would have to work with no engine because there are still power
steering belts that break, and because there are engines that stall.

I drove my 88 LeBaron without power steering for what must have been 4
to 8 thousand miles. It was only a problem parallel parking or getting
out of a tight spot.

But the power brakes are only required to have 3 or maybe 4 full
pushes in them if the engine is not running, and I doubt any car has
more than that.

Until I get more information, I'm saying take it out of gear and don't
turn the engine off until you have slowed down quite a bit.

Sounds right.

David

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 22:04:57 -0500, mm
wrote:

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 19:46:43 -0600, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

mm wrote:
OT Toyota

If it's not the carpet that's causing Toyatas to speed up, then how
can replacing the gas pedal help?

I couldn't find the article I saw this in again. The problem is
moisture getting into the accelerator somehow. Symptoms of a possible
problem include the accelerator being harder to depress, not operating
smoothly, and or not returning to the upper position.

Well none of that is the pedal. They were still talking about the
actual pedal on Friday, the thing your foot rests on, right?

Then today Saturday they announced something but it's still about the
pedal, right?

The pedal is not just the pedal any more. It is an electronic device
with a footpad that tells the computer how fast you want to go and
some other servo motor opens and closes the throttle as needed.

In the past, metal rods or cables worked the throttle and a spring
pulled it closed. It is now a drive by wire system that should
failsafe to a closed mode, but evidently is not.

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 19:33:25 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:


Can you imagine what would happen if, while you're driving along Route 101
enjoying the scenery, your girlfriend squirmed around with an urgent need to
put her face in your lap and in so doing hit the shift lever?


True story. A big lawsuit was being reported on a regular basis in
the Hartford Courant. A couple left a bar, probably inebriated, in
his Mercedes SL. Hit a tree, both were ejected, he was killed. She
says he was driving, pay my medical bills. His family says she was
driving, pay for our loss.

Her defense? Your honor, I could not have been driving. I was giving
him a BJ at the time. At "the moment" he hit the gas.

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 22:44:12 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 22:04:57 -0500, mm
wrote:

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 19:46:43 -0600, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

mm wrote:
OT Toyota

If it's not the carpet that's causing Toyatas to speed up, then how
can replacing the gas pedal help?

I couldn't find the article I saw this in again. The problem is
moisture getting into the accelerator somehow. Symptoms of a possible
problem include the accelerator being harder to depress, not operating
smoothly, and or not returning to the upper position.

Well none of that is the pedal. They were still talking about the
actual pedal on Friday, the thing your foot rests on, right?

Then today Saturday they announced something but it's still about the
pedal, right?

The pedal is not just the pedal any more. It is an electronic device
with a footpad that tells the computer how fast you want to go and
some other servo motor opens and closes the throttle as needed.

Dang, new-fangled English. If God wanted us to have new words, he
wouldn't have given us a big supply of old words.

In the past, metal rods or cables worked the throttle and a spring
pulled it closed. It is now a drive by wire system that should
failsafe to a closed mode, but evidently is not.

But, despite my complaint above, apprarently this accounts for it.

Now, of the millions of people in the US who have Toyatas, and the 100
million+ other car owners in the US, and many millions elsewhere who
have heard about this, how many do you think know what you just said,
and how many think they are still talking about the actual pedal? Both
because of the word and because they were talking about that before,
since it actually might have caught on a floor mat (but didn't).

Their PR depeartment is sleeping.


I'm still amazed and outraged. On my '95 Chrysler, the pedal is
still the pedal. There is a throttle position sensor near the end of
the accelerator cable, and a few other sensors unrelated to the pedal,
but I think everything else is in the computer, so there is no greater
meaning to pedal. So people with old cars -- I don't know how old --
are even more likely not to know what you said.

Ed Pawlowski wrote in
:

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 19:33:25 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:


Can you imagine what would happen if, while you're driving along Route
101 enjoying the scenery, your girlfriend squirmed around with an
urgent need to put her face in your lap and in so doing hit the shift
lever?


True story. A big lawsuit was being reported on a regular basis in
the Hartford Courant. A couple left a bar, probably inebriated, in
his Mercedes SL. Hit a tree, both were ejected, he was killed. She
says he was driving, pay my medical bills. His family says she was
driving, pay for our loss.

Her defense? Your honor, I could not have been driving. I was giving
him a BJ at the time. At "the moment" he hit the gas.


if they were ejected,then they were not wearing their seatbelts.
Probably against the law.
Sorry,no payment;operating the vehicle in an illegal manner.

IOW,if you don't want to wear your belts,then you take responsibility for
the consequences.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

mm wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 15:55:27 -0800 (PST), hibb
wrote:

I Haven't had a problem yet but if I do I figure I would try to get it
out of gear and turn the engine off as soon as possible. If I'm
already going at a good clip I am not sure how it would handle if I
just turn off the ignition. Are newer cars set up to handle like older
cars that had no power steering if the engine is dead and you lose
your power steering?

It would have to work with no engine because there are still power
steering belts that break, and because there are engines that stall.

I drove my 88 LeBaron without power steering for what must have been 4
to 8 thousand miles. It was only a problem parallel parking or getting
out of a tight spot.

But the power brakes are only required to have 3 or maybe 4 full
pushes in them if the engine is not running, and I doubt any car has
more than that.

Until I get more information, I'm saying take it out of gear and don't
turn the engine off until you have slowed down quite a bit.

Sounds right.

David

I don't remember- CAN you take it out of gear, at speed, in a
fly-by-wire car? Sure, you can move the lever, but will it actually do
anything?

Nobody knows for sure how they will react till they are in a situation
like that. Sitting here right now, I can say I would calmly run through
all the steps (including pumping the brakes), and if none of them
worked, look for a guardrail to ease into to scrub off speed. Yeah, I'll
trash the car to avoid a head-on, or t-boning somebody at an
intersection. But the only time I had a runaway, it turned out to be
just a sticking aftermarket cruise control, and turning it off solved
the problem. (noticed the sound was funny when I passed a car, looked
down, and saw I was doing 85...) But if it happens again, in a strange
car, and not on a mostly-empty interstate late at night like the time
before, who knows? My brain might blue-screen too.

--
aem, who doesn't drive much or very far any more, sends....

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 23:03:03 -0500, aemeijers
wrote:

mm wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 15:55:27 -0800 (PST), hibb
wrote:

I Haven't had a problem yet but if I do I figure I would try to get it
out of gear and turn the engine off as soon as possible. If I'm
already going at a good clip I am not sure how it would handle if I
just turn off the ignition. Are newer cars set up to handle like older
cars that had no power steering if the engine is dead and you lose
your power steering?

It would have to work with no engine because there are still power
steering belts that break, and because there are engines that stall.

I drove my 88 LeBaron without power steering for what must have been 4
to 8 thousand miles. It was only a problem parallel parking or getting
out of a tight spot.

But the power brakes are only required to have 3 or maybe 4 full
pushes in them if the engine is not running, and I doubt any car has
more than that.

Until I get more information, I'm saying take it out of gear and don't
turn the engine off until you have slowed down quite a bit.

Sounds right.

David

I don't remember- CAN you take it out of gear, at speed, in a
fly-by-wire car? Sure, you can move the lever, but will it actually do
anything?

ON one news show they said that Toyota said to apply the brake first.
Maybe that's related.

In a newspaper article, regarding, one would think their source was
toyota, but they said nothing about applying the brake first.

Nobody knows for sure how they will react till they are in a situation
like that. Sitting here right now, I can say I would calmly run through
all the steps (including pumping the brakes), and if none of them
worked, look for a guardrail to ease into to scrub off speed. Yeah, I'll
trash the car to avoid a head-on, or t-boning somebody at an
intersection. But the only time I had a runaway, it turned out to be
just a sticking aftermarket cruise control, and turning it off solved
the problem. (noticed the sound was funny when I passed a car, looked
down, and saw I was doing 85...) But if it happens again, in a strange
car, and not on a mostly-empty interstate late at night like the time
before, who knows? My brain might blue-screen too.

I know my question won't yeild accurate answers, but I wanted to aks
anyway.

I've had one time where I panicked and once when I was really cool,
but I forget both of them now. No one got hurt either time.

I've never had a runaway engine but I've had my brakes fail 7 times
iirc, all of those before there were separate front and rear brakes.

The first time was the worst. I was 17, in my mothers car on my way to
a date in the evening on the wide but quiet Meridian St. around 30th
St. in Indianapolis. The car 200 feet in front of me stopped to wait
for a car to pass, to turn right. I applied the brakes and the pedal
went to the floor. I pumped and got a bit more braking. I hit the
car at about 15 or 20 miles an hour, maybe more. I think the 58 Ford
had aftermarket seatbelts my mother had had put in. After I had
tried to apply the brakes and knew I had a problem, I had had maybe 2
seconds or 4 and during that time I hadn't thought to use the
handbrake that was under the dash to the far left. But after I hit I
wanted to back up, and the car was at an angle so I was going into the
lane to the right of me. And then I quickly reached for the handbrake
but opened the hood instead!

But I had barely applied any gas and it only went about 15 feet back
before stopping.

So I didnt' mess up entirely, but I didn't do very well either. (The
brake line just in front of the left rear wheel had sprung a leak. I
wasn't hurt but both cars were hurt somewhat, not that much..

Twice the power brake vaccume valve stuck into the front of the
booster failed (the spring and plastic piece popped out. STrangely,
that was the first day after my brother went to Viet Name and lent me
his 65 Pontiac, and the first day after I bought my own 67 pontiac
years later. Quite a coincidence. No damage in either case.

Two other times the flexible brakeline to a front wheel failed. No
damage in one cse and in another I knocked a fence part way down that
was already part way down but not as much. It was leaning on bushes
next to a business.

Master cylinder failed once, but no damage. One other time I forget.

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 22:00:51 -0600, Jim Yanik
wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote in
:

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 19:33:25 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:


Can you imagine what would happen if, while you're driving along Route
101 enjoying the scenery, your girlfriend squirmed around with an
urgent need to put her face in your lap and in so doing hit the shift
lever?


True story. A big lawsuit was being reported on a regular basis in
the Hartford Courant. A couple left a bar, probably inebriated, in
his Mercedes SL. Hit a tree, both were ejected, he was killed. She
says he was driving, pay my medical bills. His family says she was
driving, pay for our loss.

Her defense? Your honor, I could not have been driving. I was giving
him a BJ at the time. At "the moment" he hit the gas.


if they were ejected,then they were not wearing their seatbelts.
Probably against the law.
Sorry,no payment;operating the vehicle in an illegal manner.

That's between each of them and the government. But between a driver
and a passenger, the question is who is negligent in a manner that
caused the accident.

Failing to wear a seatbelt is negligence but it doesn't cause the
accident.

And between a driver and passengers, it doesn't matter who is
violating the law if that violation is not a cuase of the accident or
its severity. That is, if the driver were going over the speed
limit, the judgment against him would likely be more, but because
going faster causes greater injuries, not because it's illegal.

In some states, comparative negligence may be calculated, if the
passenger did something to help cause the accident.

In a few states contributory neglignece can prevent someone who was
only slightly at fault from recovering from the other party, but that
refers to negligence that caused the accident, not failing to wear a
seatbelt that results only in greater injury.

IOW,if you don't want to wear your belts,then you take responsibility for
the consequences.

A good maxim but in this case, only partly the law.

If the driver or another car were at fault, failure to wear seatbelts
could cause your judgment against the other driver to be reduced to
the injury you would have had had you been wearing your seat belt.

But as between the driver and passenger, the owner or driver could
have insisted that the other party wear hir seatbelt. When I pick up
a hitchhiker, I insist that he wear his seatbelt. With my friends I
don't (although they all do it anyhow.O)

If he was driving, I doubt that any act they were jointly involved in
would be a defense against a claim by her of negligence by him.

On Jan 30, 8:33*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
mm wrote:
OT *Toyota

If it's not the carpet that's causing Toyatas to speed up, then how
can replacing the gas pedal help?

How many of you are still driving your Toyota?

Would you have thought to put the car in neutral if it's speeding up?

Some cars, Toyota probably, can't be shifted at speed.

Can you imagine what would happen if, while you're driving along Route 101
enjoying the scenery, your girlfriend squirmed around with an urgent need to
put her face in your lap and in so doing hit the shift lever?

You mean the shift lever she isn't supposed to... engage?

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 21:37:29 -0500, "Charlie"
wrote:


"Dean Hoffman" wrote in message
...
mm wrote:
OT Toyota

If it's not the carpet that's causing Toyatas to speed up, then how
can replacing the gas pedal help?

I couldn't find the article I saw this in again. The problem is
moisture getting into the accelerator somehow. Symptoms of a possible
problem include the accelerator being harder to depress, not operating
smoothly, and or not returning to the upper position.

There was a clip on CNN today that had a driver who said that he got a toe
under the gas pedal and pulled it up with no effect.
Could this be related to something like cruise control that pulls the pedal
down as it rengages?
The worry is that new or revised gas pedals will not turn out to be the
right answer.

Charlie


If that's the case and it's a mechanical problem then the design of
the pedal mechanism must be such that there is not a fixed connection
between the pedal and the "sensor" gizmo inside the pedal assembly,
i.e. the pedal an push it down ok against a coil spring that makes the
"sensor"gizmo push back and make the pedal return. But if the gizmo
itself is sticking down then it won't return the pedal AND the pedal
will not be able to pull it back. I can easily envision such a design,
it would make it easier to have one "box" that could be used with many
different pedals in different cars. Only problem would be that the
designers failed to anticipate that anyone would ever have a desire to
hook a toe under the pedal to make the darn thing return to "zero",
figuring instead that the spring would always be able to return it.

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 22:48:31 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 19:33:25 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:


Can you imagine what would happen if, while you're driving along Route 101
enjoying the scenery, your girlfriend squirmed around with an urgent need to
put her face in your lap and in so doing hit the shift lever?


True story. A big lawsuit was being reported on a regular basis in
the Hartford Courant. A couple left a bar, probably inebriated, in
his Mercedes SL. Hit a tree, both were ejected, he was killed. She
says he was driving, pay my medical bills. His family says she was
driving, pay for our loss.

Her defense? Your honor, I could not have been driving. I was giving
him a BJ at the time. At "the moment" he hit the gas.

Must of got a cramp in his leg, before he died.

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 23:03:03 -0500, aemeijers
wrote:

I don't remember- CAN you take it out of gear, at speed, in a
fly-by-wire car? Sure, you can move the lever, but will it actually do
anything?

My Toyota, I press a button on the lever and pull into low gear. All
else fails I can always use an emergency brake.

That's the last thing I'd want to do, palm it up to neutral.
I know, that's what they say on the radio. Because the
engine would race to wide open throttle, and throw a rod.

I heard some earlier Toyotas, the pedal was catching on the
floor mat. This sounds like a return spring is snapping.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"mm" wrote in message
...
OT Toyota

If it's not the carpet that's causing Toyatas to speed up,
then how
can replacing the gas pedal help?

How many of you are still driving your Toyota?


Would you have thought to put the car in neutral if it's
speeding up?

Guess they made it too complicated. Maybe the old Model A
Fords had some advantages, after all.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
news
The pedal is not just the pedal any more. It is an
electronic device
with a footpad that tells the computer how fast you want to
go and
some other servo motor opens and closes the throttle as
needed.

In the past, metal rods or cables worked the throttle and a
spring
pulled it closed. It is now a drive by wire system that
should
failsafe to a closed mode, but evidently is not.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
That's the last thing I'd want to do, palm it up to neutral.
I know, that's what they say on the radio. Because the
engine would race to wide open throttle, and throw a rod.

I heard some earlier Toyotas, the pedal was catching on the
floor mat. This sounds like a return spring is snapping.

A new engine is a hell of a lot cheaper than the hospital or the body
shop. And with a modern unit-body crush-control car, wrecks that used to
be fixable with a new doghouse, are now totals. I seriously doubt the
engine would grenade- most are rev-limited by the computer these days.
But I don't really care if they have to pick up the car with a shop vac,
as long as I don't get messed up. I can always get another car, and on
the newer one at least, insurance would likely cover it anyway. Me, not
so much. I don't heal up nearly as well as when I was 18, even from
minor injuries.

--
aem sends...

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...
mm wrote:

David

I don't remember- CAN you take it out of gear, at speed, in a fly-by-wire
car? Sure, you can move the lever, but will it actually do anything?

I have a throttle by wire car and all you have to do is tap the shifter into
neutral and ease the brakes. Simple.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
That's the last thing I'd want to do, palm it up to neutral.
I know, that's what they say on the radio. Because the
engine would race to wide open throttle, and throw a rod.

I heard some earlier Toyotas, the pedal was catching on the
floor mat. This sounds like a return spring is snapping.


You are supposed to palm it into neutral. Modern cars have governors that
ensure you don't race up the rpm. My V6 locks about 4500 RPM, unless it
determines a normal power band, like exiting a hiway offramp. If you just
punch the throttle in 3rd 4th or 5th, oftentimes the car will govern itself
until it determines what the hell you want to do.

You can downshift your automatic tranny into a lower gear if needed, like on
a hill or somesuch but if the rpm's are too high to do it on the fly, the
car's transmission computer module will not allow a downshift and lock you
from doing that.

I drive a POS Sebring and it does all this.

"mm" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 22:44:12 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Now, of the millions of people in the US who have Toyatas, and the 100
million+ other car owners in the US, and many millions elsewhere who
have heard about this, how many do you think know what you just said,
and how many think they are still talking about the actual pedal? Both
because of the word and because they were talking about that before,
since it actually might have caught on a floor mat (but didn't).



motorbikes now have throttle by ware too. And pretty soon most automatic
transmissions will be getting rid of the shifter to select or change gears
and will have a dial or buttons to select gears. Many high end cars already
have electronic transmissions.

On Jan 30, 9:44*pm, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 22:04:57 -0500, mm
wrote:





On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 19:46:43 -0600, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

mm wrote:
OT *Toyota

If it's not the carpet that's causing Toyatas to speed up, then how
can replacing the gas pedal help?

* * I couldn't find the article I saw this in again. *The problem is
moisture getting into the accelerator somehow. * Symptoms of a possible
problem include the accelerator being harder to depress, not operating
smoothly, and or not returning to the upper position.

Well none of that is the pedal. * They were still talking about the
actual pedal on Friday, the thing your foot rests on, right?

Then today Saturday they announced something but it's still about the
pedal, right?

The pedal is not just the pedal any more. *It is an electronic device
with a footpad that tells the computer how fast you want to go and
some other servo motor opens and closes the throttle as needed. *

In the past, metal rods or cables worked the throttle and a spring
pulled it closed. *It is now a drive by wire system that should
failsafe to a closed mode, but evidently is not.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Years ago working on my camry under the hood I reved the motor and
released the half round cable holder that I reved it with, the motor
stayed at Full Rev, the cable did not slide back into the sleeve at
the top of the motor fast enough, the plastic cable holder binded up,
folded over in a kink, until I reved it or yanked on it again. Didnt
Audi "supposidly" have an issue years ago, Anybody who hits anyhing
now in a toyota says their car did it, not them, but the non accident
claims of acceleration are what make me wonder since they are not
finding beer cans wedged in the pedals, or the drivers quickly remove
them.

aemeijers wrote in news:dLSdnS4tI-33G_jWnZ2dnUVZ_t-
:

Stormin Mormon wrote:
That's the last thing I'd want to do, palm it up to neutral.
I know, that's what they say on the radio. Because the
engine would race to wide open throttle, and throw a rod.

I heard some earlier Toyotas, the pedal was catching on the
floor mat. This sounds like a return spring is snapping.

A new engine is a hell of a lot cheaper than the hospital or the body
shop. And with a modern unit-body crush-control car, wrecks that used to
be fixable with a new doghouse, are now totals. I seriously doubt the
engine would grenade- most are rev-limited by the computer these days.
But I don't really care if they have to pick up the car with a shop vac,
as long as I don't get messed up. I can always get another car, and on
the newer one at least, insurance would likely cover it anyway. Me, not
so much. I don't heal up nearly as well as when I was 18, even from
minor injuries.

--
aem sends...


on a new car,the power-train warranty should cover it.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

Van Chocstraw wrote:
(snip)
Nobody knows for sure how they will react till they are in a situation
like that. Sitting here right now, I can say I would calmly run through
all the steps (including pumping the brakes), and if none of them
worked, look for a guardrail to ease into to scrub off speed. Yeah, I'll
trash the car to avoid a head-on, or t-boning somebody at an
intersection. But the only time I had a runaway, it turned out to be
just a sticking aftermarket cruise control, and turning it off solved
the problem. (noticed the sound was funny when I passed a car, looked
down, and saw I was doing 85...) But if it happens again, in a strange
car, and not on a mostly-empty interstate late at night like the time
before, who knows? My brain might blue-screen too.

--
aem, who doesn't drive much or very far any more, sends....

They specifically say 'DO NOT PUMP THE BRAKES'. Apply steady pressure.
How about turning the ****king key off stupid.

Watch ypur mouth. Not everybody has antilock brakes. Absent antilock
brakes, ones the tires start skidding, no point steering. And on modern
fancy cars, not all of them have keys. Even on cars that do, if you
accidentally turn the key all the way back (which would be the reflex
most people have), the steering wheel locks.

--
aem sends...

Cliff Hartle wrote:
There are two separate and not at all related recalls, the mat and a problem
with the gas pedal mechinism.


Sadly, most of the mainstream press reports are fuzzing over that
distinction, if they mention it at all. I think Toyota may be as badly
bit as Audi was way back when, public-image-wise. Toyota is handling it
better than Audi did, by doing the mass recall and the sales hold, but
they have pockets deep enough to pay for it. In Audi's case, they were
dumb enough to state the obvious- that almost all the runaways were
driver error. The flap damn near made them follow Renault and Fiat out
of North America.

--
aem sends...

On Jan 30, 5:36*pm, mm wrote:
OT *Toyota

If it's not the carpet that's causing Toyatas to speed up, then how
can replacing the gas pedal help?

How many of you are still driving your Toyota?

Would you have thought to put the car in neutral if it's speeding up?


A good driver would slam it in neutral and be reaching for the parking
brake and be braking with regular brakes, a good driver would be
reaching for the key to shut off the engine, a good driver would also
not hesitate to use the Parking gear if all else failed. A good
driver would make all these decisions in about 5 seconds time. The
case where the guy called 911 because he was accelerating was crazy,
he was a lame-ass driver, what the hell is a phone operator supposed
to do? (The car was later T-boned in an intersection and all died I
think).

My Toyota is un-affected fortunately:

http://www.toyota.com/recall/

Yes I will continue to drive Toyotas, if it were on the recall list I
might consider using my spare car until I got to the dealer.

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 23:51:48 -0500, mm
wrote:


Failing to wear a seatbelt is negligence but it doesn't cause the
accident.

This line of mine is unclear. Failing to use a seatbelt is negligence
but isn't legal negligence unless one has a duty to someone else, such
as to drive or ride carefully, that isn't performed unless one wears a
seatbelt. And even if a scenario could be creat ed where failure to
wear a seatbelt endangered other people in the car, unless someone
else B is actually injured because A failed to wear the seatbelt, it
is only "negligence in the air" and it's not actionable.

I had an annoying, compulsive acquaintance who insisted once that I
wear a seatbelt when I drove in our infrequent carpool. Maybe he
thought that if we got hit from the side, I'd be better able to
control the car afterwards if I was wearing my seatbelt. It's
conceivable but unlikely it would make any difference at that point.
And since we were in a rural area, or on a mostly empty expressway, it
was very unlikely I'd get hit from the side. Had there been an
accident, unless my failure to wear the seatbelt somehow caused the
accident or caused him greater injury than if I had been wearing the
seatbelt, my failure to wear the seatbelt wouldn't have mattered.

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 19:33:25 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

mm wrote:
OT Toyota

If it's not the carpet that's causing Toyatas to speed up, then how
can replacing the gas pedal help?

How many of you are still driving your Toyota?


Would you have thought to put the car in neutral if it's speeding up?

Some cars, Toyota probably, can't be shifted at speed.

Can you imagine what would happen if, while you're driving along Route 101
enjoying the scenery, your girlfriend squirmed around with an urgent need to
put her face in your lap and in so doing hit the shift lever?

Actually they can ALL be shifted into neutral, and the ECU will limit
the RPM in neutral to a safe limit by cutting the injection.
IMPOSSIBLE to over-rev any OBD2 equipped vehicle in neutral or with
the clutch depressed.

Try it some day. Start the car. In neutral. Floor the accellerator.
What happens??? At about 4000 - 4200 RPM the engine cuts out and it
just sits there, bouncing between about 3500 and 4500 RPM until you
lift your foot. The engine protects itself from driver stupidity and
gives the driver a safe "out" if a throttle malfunctions.

This has been true since at least 1995 on most vehicles, and since
1996 on all vehicles officially sold in North America.

On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 09:16:59 -0500, "The Henchman"
wrote:



"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
That's the last thing I'd want to do, palm it up to neutral.
I know, that's what they say on the radio. Because the
engine would race to wide open throttle, and throw a rod.

I would rather have a thrown rod than a thrown me.

I heard some earlier Toyotas, the pedal was catching on the
floor mat. This sounds like a return spring is snapping.

It does sound like the spring is snapping, but how long would it take
for even the dumbest mechanic to figure that out. It must not be a
broken spring.

You are supposed to palm it into neutral. Modern cars have governors that
ensure you don't race up the rpm.

Is this true of diesels too? There was a case on the People's Court
where 3 said and no one disagreed, that if for some reason the fuel
pump doesn't turn off, and let's assume the car is in neutral, the
engine will just run faster and faster until it breaks up.

Two said that the only way to stop it is to pinch the fuel line
closed.

I don't know if the car was new or old.

My V6 locks about 4500 RPM, unless it
determines a normal power band, like exiting a hiway offramp. If you just
punch the throttle in 3rd 4th or 5th, oftentimes the car will govern itself
until it determines what the hell you want to do.

You can downshift your automatic tranny into a lower gear if needed, like on
a hill or somesuch but if the rpm's are too high to do it on the fly, the
car's transmission computer module will not allow a downshift and lock you
from doing that.

YOu also can't actually go into park until the speed drops very low.

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 22:04:57 -0500, mm
wrote:

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 19:46:43 -0600, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

mm wrote:
OT Toyota

If it's not the carpet that's causing Toyatas to speed up, then how
can replacing the gas pedal help?

I couldn't find the article I saw this in again. The problem is
moisture getting into the accelerator somehow. Symptoms of a possible
problem include the accelerator being harder to depress, not operating
smoothly, and or not returning to the upper position.

Well none of that is the pedal. They were still talking about the
actual pedal on Friday, the thing your foot rests on, right?

Then today Saturday they announced something but it's still about the
pedal, right?
It is the pedal ASSEMBLY - which includes the pedal, proper, a
bellcrank type linkage with a damper, on a pivot, with a return spring
and a throttle position indicator.. This whole assembly fits into a
separate case, or box, that goes through the firewall

Apparently, if all the right (or wrong) conditions occur, condensation
can form and get into the damper mechanism part of the pedal assembly,
causing it to swell or deform, increasing the friction to the point
eventually the return spring cannot ovcercome it to return the pedal
to idle.
They are working on a "field fix" to avoid having to replace all the
throttle assemblies of this type currently in the "wild". Apparently
it may be as simple as inserting a stainless steel shim into the
damper assembly to prevent the clearance from closing up and
increasing the friction.

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 23:03:03 -0500, aemeijers
wrote:

mm wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 15:55:27 -0800 (PST), hibb
wrote:

I Haven't had a problem yet but if I do I figure I would try to get it
out of gear and turn the engine off as soon as possible. If I'm
already going at a good clip I am not sure how it would handle if I
just turn off the ignition. Are newer cars set up to handle like older
cars that had no power steering if the engine is dead and you lose
your power steering?

It would have to work with no engine because there are still power
steering belts that break, and because there are engines that stall.

I drove my 88 LeBaron without power steering for what must have been 4
to 8 thousand miles. It was only a problem parallel parking or getting
out of a tight spot.

But the power brakes are only required to have 3 or maybe 4 full
pushes in them if the engine is not running, and I doubt any car has
more than that.

Until I get more information, I'm saying take it out of gear and don't
turn the engine off until you have slowed down quite a bit.

Sounds right.

David

I don't remember- CAN you take it out of gear, at speed, in a
fly-by-wire car? Sure, you can move the lever, but will it actually do
anything?

Nobody knows for sure how they will react till they are in a situation
like that. Sitting here right now, I can say I would calmly run through
all the steps (including pumping the brakes), and if none of them
worked, look for a guardrail to ease into to scrub off speed. Yeah, I'll
trash the car to avoid a head-on, or t-boning somebody at an
intersection. But the only time I had a runaway, it turned out to be
just a sticking aftermarket cruise control, and turning it off solved
the problem. (noticed the sound was funny when I passed a car, looked
down, and saw I was doing 85...) But if it happens again, in a strange
car, and not on a mostly-empty interstate late at night like the time
before, who knows? My brain might blue-screen too.


Aftermarket cruise on 1980 Corolla (it could have been ANY other car -
being aftermarket) stuck on my wife while going to her brother's home
in Windsor from Kitchener with our 2 young girls with her. She was
able to keep it under control with the brakes until she got to her
brother's place, where she put it out of gear and shut it off. It
dieselled something awfull, and filled the catalytic converter with
fuel so it flashed white hot. The heat melted the floor-mats and
console, filling the car with smoke. She called me in a panic on the
phone asking what to do. I told her to turn the key back on, foot hard
on the brake, put it in gear, and then shut off the key - call the
fire department and point the garden hose anywhere she saw smoke.


When the fire department got there, it was dead and out.
Insurance company totalled it and gave me a negotiated cash settlement
- I fixed the car with used parts and drove it another 5? years - with
the balance of the insurance payment in the "car fund".

On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 05:01:20 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

That's the last thing I'd want to do, palm it up to neutral.
I know, that's what they say on the radio. Because the
engine would race to wide open throttle, and throw a rod.

I heard some earlier Toyotas, the pedal was catching on the
floor mat. This sounds like a return spring is snapping.


The engine will NOT throw a rod because it is electronically rev
limited to a safe RPM (usually around 4200 - 4500 RPM).

Try it some time. With the car idling in neutral, jab the throttle to
the floor and see what happens. It WILL cut out, and surge until you
let off the pedal.

On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 13:12:24 -0500, Van Chocstraw
wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 22:04:57 -0500,
wrote:

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 19:46:43 -0600, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

mm wrote:
OT Toyota

If it's not the carpet that's causing Toyatas to speed up, then how
can replacing the gas pedal help?

I couldn't find the article I saw this in again. The problem is
moisture getting into the accelerator somehow. Symptoms of a possible
problem include the accelerator being harder to depress, not operating
smoothly, and or not returning to the upper position.

Well none of that is the pedal. They were still talking about the
actual pedal on Friday, the thing your foot rests on, right?

Then today Saturday they announced something but it's still about the
pedal, right?

The pedal is not just the pedal any more. It is an electronic device
with a footpad that tells the computer how fast you want to go and
some other servo motor opens and closes the throttle as needed.

In the past, metal rods or cables worked the throttle and a spring
pulled it closed. It is now a drive by wire system that should
failsafe to a closed mode, but evidently is not.

Drive by wire is still against the law. A cable runs from the pedal to
the throttle body.


Totally not true.


Brake by wire is also illegal.

To the best of my knowlege this may still be true. However, the early
Citroen D19 had a full pressure hydraulic braking system where a
"buuble" on the floor actuated a valve that controlled the brakes.
Also, electricall brake operation would be no less "positive" thanthe
current hydraulic system - which has NO mechanical linkage from the
foot to the wheel.

What the law DOES require is 2 totally independend brake actuating
systems - the service brake and the "parking" or "emergency" brake.
The 1949 VW did NOT technically pass this requirement as the same
cables operated all 4 wheels when the pedal was pushed OR the handle
pulled.
Steering by wire is
illegal too.
And also this. Full Servo steering IS used on construction equipment
and farm equipment.

On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 13:14:21 -0500, aemeijers
wrote:

Van Chocstraw wrote:
(snip)
Nobody knows for sure how they will react till they are in a situation
like that. Sitting here right now, I can say I would calmly run through
all the steps (including pumping the brakes), and if none of them
worked, look for a guardrail to ease into to scrub off speed. Yeah, I'll
trash the car to avoid a head-on, or t-boning somebody at an
intersection. But the only time I had a runaway, it turned out to be
just a sticking aftermarket cruise control, and turning it off solved
the problem. (noticed the sound was funny when I passed a car, looked
down, and saw I was doing 85...) But if it happens again, in a strange
car, and not on a mostly-empty interstate late at night like the time
before, who knows? My brain might blue-screen too.

--
aem, who doesn't drive much or very far any more, sends....

They specifically say 'DO NOT PUMP THE BRAKES'. Apply steady pressure.
How about turning the ****king key off stupid.

Watch ypur mouth. Not everybody has antilock brakes. Absent antilock
brakes, ones the tires start skidding, no point steering. And on modern
fancy cars, not all of them have keys. Even on cars that do, if you
accidentally turn the key all the way back (which would be the reflex
most people have), the steering wheel locks.
When the throttle is jammed, the advice to NOT pump the brakes is
correct. Nothing to do with ABS. The brake booster runs on manifold
vacuum - and at full throttle there is NO manifold vacuum - you only
have the vacuum trammed in the "reservoir" of the brake booster. That
is good for 2, MABEE 3 applications of the brake before loosing ALL
boost.