Gary H wrote:
On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 07:46:56 -0400, George
wrote:

[snip]

I would say it isn't me who is mistaken. Backpedaling won't change
that or give you ant credability. You stated this in this very
thread when that very interlock kit was suggested:

"Yep. $150 for a 6x6 inch bit of sheet metal with a couple of holes.

My view is: If the power company wants their linemen protected from
backfeed, they should provide the interlocks. "

If you connect your generator to the power grid you're interfering
with THEIR system without their knowledge or permission.

Agreed. And if it's crucial to them, they might consider protecting their
infrastructure. This same power company puts fences around their substations
and seals on their meters and signs that say "Don't dig here."

On Oct 12, 12:31*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:

Yep. $150 for a 6x6 inch bit of sheet metal with a couple of holes.

My view is: If the power company wants their linemen protected from
backfeed, they should provide the interlocks.- Hide quoted text -
..
During storm damage conditions it may or may not be possible for power
company staff to install temporary short circuits on downed lines.

With an attitude like that no wonder there are problems in society!

If I want to sneeze in your face I should have every right to do so!
I'll shoot my gun off anywhere I want; passing motorist and
pedestrians should install metal plate armour in their vehicles and
wear bullet proof clothing.
If want to I'll **** in any river, pond, water supply, swimming pool;
to hell with the fish or health of other humans!
Fireworks? Sure fire them off anywhere you want; who cares about grass
fires or someone else's property.
If I want to drive 100 mph in a school or pedestrian zone I'll do so.
Sex. Yes anywhere any time with anyone; and ignore catching (or
transmitting) AIDS or other STDs!
Vaccinations. Don't bother to sterilise his/her arm; just stick in the
needle!
Boating? If I want to cut across the bow of another
boat .............................. THEY should avoid
me ................ Oops: CRASH!!!!! ......... HEEEELP! Hey can anyone
lend me a life jacket .................... !.

HeyBub wrote:
Gary H wrote:
On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 07:46:56 -0400, George
wrote:

[snip]

I would say it isn't me who is mistaken. Backpedaling won't change
that or give you ant credability. You stated this in this very
thread when that very interlock kit was suggested:

"Yep. $150 for a 6x6 inch bit of sheet metal with a couple of holes.

My view is: If the power company wants their linemen protected from
backfeed, they should provide the interlocks. "
If you connect your generator to the power grid you're interfering
with THEIR system without their knowledge or permission.

Agreed. And if it's crucial to them, they might consider protecting their
infrastructure. This same power company puts fences around their substations
and seals on their meters and signs that say "Don't dig here."


They do. Thats why there are specific requirements about interlocking
which are enforced by electrical codes and standard practice. There
really is no way to justify your really bizarre thinking about disregard
for human life no matter how hard you try.

George wrote:
Agreed. And if it's crucial to them, they might consider protecting
their infrastructure. This same power company puts fences around
their substations and seals on their meters and signs that say
"Don't dig here."
They do. Thats why there are specific requirements about interlocking
which are enforced by electrical codes and standard practice. There
really is no way to justify your really bizarre thinking about
disregard for human life no matter how hard you try.

Bah! Neither the electrical code nor standard practice have any enforcement
mechanism. They're like the Ten Commandments: there is no penalty attached
for violation.

And just what is my bizarre thinking? That power companies should provide
interlocks to their customers that have generators? The 'phone company used
to provide interference suppression devices for customer-owned telephones,
ostensibly to protect their circuits from non-conforming equipment. Many
water companies provide backflow preventers to keep their product pure.

The power company already installs lightning arrestors, reclosures, and
ground wires on almost every pole - again to protect their equipment.

It's the concept I'm arguing.

Tell you what's really bizar your concluding that I have no regard for
human life. You didn't find that in my post. In fact, just the opposite. I
suggest that if the power company DID provide interlock devices, the chance
for injury would be lessened.

On Oct 13, 8:10�pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
George wrote:
Agreed. And if it's crucial to them, they might consider protecting
their infrastructure. This same power company puts fences around
their substations and seals on their meters and signs that say
"Don't dig here."
They do. Thats why there are specific requirements about interlocking
which are enforced by electrical codes and standard practice. There
really is no way to justify your really bizarre thinking about
disregard for human life no matter how hard you try.

Bah! Neither the electrical code nor standard practice have any enforcement
mechanism. They're like the Ten Commandments: there is no penalty attached
for violation.

And just what is my bizarre thinking? That power companies should provide
interlocks to their customers that have generators? The 'phone company used
to provide interference suppression devices for customer-owned telephones,
ostensibly to protect their circuits from non-conforming equipment. Many
water companies provide backflow preventers to keep their product pure.

The power company already installs lightning arrestors, reclosures, and
ground wires on almost every pole - again to protect their equipment.

It's the concept I'm arguing.

Tell you what's really bizar your concluding that I have no regard for
human life. You didn't find that in my post. In fact, just the opposite. I
suggest that if the power company DID provide interlock devices, the chance
for injury would be lessened.

well at home resale a illegal interconnect will be red flagged by any
decent home inspector

I've heard they are supposed to use ground straps on "known
to be dead" lines. Figuring if someone charges the line, it
should trip off the breaker immediately.

That farmer story reminds me of the day I was standing on a
chair in a woman's dining room. We'd identified the breaker
(I'll stomp on the floor when you get the right one). I'm on
the second floor, the breakers in the cellar. She sarted out
of the room I called after her "Debbie, where are you
going?" "You look like you're almost through, so I'm gong to
to turn on the power again." I gave her a few stern words.

She was both of those terms. A dry alcoholic, she played a
stiff game of getting herself in trouble, so others could
rescue her.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"dpb" wrote in message
...

If they know they're
working on stuff live then they won't work as if they were
working on a
(known) disconnected line. Where it's really a problem (and
got one of
our local co-op linemen a few years ago) is a situation such
as a
disconnected line, actually confirm it was isolated and talk
to the
farmstead owner who subsequently got impatient and hooked up
the gen-set
while they were still working w/o notifying them...

Moral of story as homeowner is--don't be an ass or
dumb****...

--

On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 19:10:08 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote Re Generator wiring options:

And just what is my bizarre thinking? That power companies should provide
interlocks to their customers that have generators?

And the customers have the generators because the power companies
(PCs) cannot provide sufficient reliability. That's sometimes not the
PCs fault, e.g. weather; but then the PCs should be willing to provide
the interlock if the customer provides the genset.

The 'phone company used
to provide interference suppression devices for customer-owned telephones,
ostensibly to protect their circuits from non-conforming equipment. Many
water companies provide backflow preventers to keep their product pure.

The power company already installs lightning arrestors, reclosures, and
ground wires on almost every pole - again to protect their equipment.

It's the concept I'm arguing.

Tell you what's really bizar your concluding that I have no regard for
human life. You didn't find that in my post. In fact, just the opposite. I
suggest that if the power company DID provide interlock devices, the chance
for injury would be lessened.

I like the way you think.
--
I filter all messages from google groups.

HeyBub wrote:
George wrote:
Agreed. And if it's crucial to them, they might consider protecting
their infrastructure. This same power company puts fences around
their substations and seals on their meters and signs that say
"Don't dig here."
They do. Thats why there are specific requirements about interlocking
which are enforced by electrical codes and standard practice. There
really is no way to justify your really bizarre thinking about
disregard for human life no matter how hard you try.

Bah! Neither the electrical code nor standard practice have any enforcement
mechanism. They're like the Ten Commandments: there is no penalty attached
for violation.


And you know this how? (really think about it)

And just what is my bizarre thinking? That power companies should provide
interlocks to their customers that have generators? The 'phone company used
to provide interference suppression devices for customer-owned telephones,
ostensibly to protect their circuits from non-conforming equipment. Many
water companies provide backflow preventers to keep their product pure.

Every water company I am familiar with requires the *end user* to
install backflow preventers per their specification just like *ALL*
electrical suppliers require isolation and interlocking of alternate
supplies.


The power company already installs lightning arrestors, reclosures, and
ground wires on almost every pole - again to protect their equipment.

It's the concept I'm arguing.

No, you are arguing that you want to do it your way and everyone else
should pay for some elaborate protection system.

Tell you what's really bizar your concluding that I have no regard for
human life. You didn't find that in my post. In fact, just the opposite. I
suggest that if the power company DID provide interlock devices, the chance
for injury would be lessened.


Right, thats why you wrote this:

"Certainly. Chances are, if a lineman IS killed, you didn't know him.
So, ask
yourself the next time you're standing in the long line at the movie or
restaurant.... "


So are you the bored housewife I think you are who writes nonsense to
amuse yourself?

Caesar Romano wrote:
On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 08:59:28 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote Re Generator wiring
options:

In theory, a breaker trips on the generator. How fast? Well,
depends if it's a Federal Pacific Electric breaker on the
generator.

Ball park? 1sec?, 1min?, 1hour?

And before the breaker on the generator trips, the 5kW gen is trying
to feed several hundred kW on the grid. ISTM that the gen would stop
dead even if the gen breaker didn't pop.

Thats your cherry picked scenario. What about a typical place where
someone would have a generator such as my friend who lives in the woods
and the next customer is a half mile down the road. If the primary
should fall somewhere after the customer next to him and he were to do a
half ass connection of his generator and backfeed the power line the
transformer serving his house will step it up to a lethal 7.2 kv and
keep it energized.

Moral of the story. You can't possibly foresee every condition. Thats
why we develop methods such as interlocking and isolation.

there are standards and safety regulations for very good
reasons.......

The NEC is there to save future lives.

Jordan wrote:
I am picking up a 5000w cont. / 6500w surge generator which should be
more than enough for my needs. I want to keep the refrigerator, 240v
water pump, the oil boiler circualtors, and a few lights at at time
running. Practically the whole house has the CF lights so my lighting
is about 1/4 normal. My max surge is 4000w and running is 2400w.

My home's 100A power panel is spread out pretty well where each room
has its own 15A breaker which makes my transfer switch wiring a
problem. Most of the switches seem to come with one 240 breaker (for
my well) and 4 - 15A circuits (1 for Kitchen for fridge and 1 for
heating). This leaves 2 rooms for lighting which is the most
miniscule part of my needs.

Rather than wiring up individual circuits is it possible to get a
transfer switch that transfers the entire power to the generator
line?

Something I would have liked but I had a transfer panel installed to
handle the critical items. Excluded were the big energy users like
electric stove, air conditioner, clothes drier and water heater.
Transfer switch in transfer box isolates circuits needed which include
freezers, refrigerator, well, and furnace. Other circuits are still on
and when electricity is restored a light or something will pop on
letting you know.

I've never used more than 7 gal of gas a day as I turn off generator
when sleeping or out of the house. Refrigerator and freezer are fine if
off for less than 12 hours and I usually wait an hour to see if power
will be restored.

On Oct 14, 8:42*am, George wrote:
Caesar Romano wrote:
On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 08:59:28 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote Re Generator wiring
options:

In theory, a breaker trips on the generator. How fast? Well,
depends if it's a Federal Pacific Electric breaker on the
generator.

Ball park? 1sec?, 1min?, 1hour?

And before the breaker on the generator trips, the 5kW gen is trying
to feed several hundred kW on the grid. ISTM that the gen would stop
dead even if the gen breaker didn't pop.

Thats your cherry picked scenario. What about a typical place where
someone would have a generator such as my friend who lives in the woods
and the next customer is a half mile down the road. If the primary
should fall somewhere after the customer next to him and he were to do a
half ass connection of his generator and backfeed the power line the
transformer serving his house will step it up to a lethal 7.2 kv and
keep it energized.

Moral of the story. You can't possibly foresee every condition. Thats
why we develop methods such as interlocking and isolation.

That's hardly a cherry picked scenario. Most neigborhoods have many
homes on the same circuit off the transformer. Accidentally
backfeeding pops the generator circuit breakers immediately. Well
before the tranformer secondaries can ramp up any. The lone house in
the country is more like a cherry picked scenario.

Wow! Seven galons. My little Coleman has a one gal tank. For
winter power cuts, I run it for an hour or so in the evening
to run the furnace. It has been a while, but I don't think I
ever totally fill the one galon tank. Use oil lamps and
flash lights for light.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Frank" wrote in message
...

I've never used more than 7 gal of gas a day

On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 05:48:25 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote Re Generator wiring options:

there are standards and safety regulations for very good
reasons.......

The NEC is there to save future lives.

Yes, thank God they have *finally* specified which direction the
ground prong is supposed to point on a 120v outlet.
--
I filter all messages from google groups.

jamesgangnc wrote:
On Oct 14, 8:42 am, George wrote:
Caesar Romano wrote:
On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 08:59:28 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote Re Generator wiring
options:
In theory, a breaker trips on the generator. How fast? Well,
depends if it's a Federal Pacific Electric breaker on the
generator.
Ball park? 1sec?, 1min?, 1hour?
And before the breaker on the generator trips, the 5kW gen is trying
to feed several hundred kW on the grid. ISTM that the gen would stop
dead even if the gen breaker didn't pop.
Thats your cherry picked scenario. What about a typical place where
someone would have a generator such as my friend who lives in the woods
and the next customer is a half mile down the road. If the primary
should fall somewhere after the customer next to him and he were to do a
half ass connection of his generator and backfeed the power line the
transformer serving his house will step it up to a lethal 7.2 kv and
keep it energized.

Moral of the story. You can't possibly foresee every condition. Thats
why we develop methods such as interlocking and isolation.

That's hardly a cherry picked scenario. Most neigborhoods have many
homes on the same circuit off the transformer. Accidentally
backfeeding pops the generator circuit breakers immediately. Well
before the tranformer secondaries can ramp up any. The lone house in
the country is more like a cherry picked scenario.

A friend of mine works for The Sister Mary Elephant TV network in
Irondale and when we had a freak snow storm in 93, Alabama Power
sent a crew via helicopter to disconnect the lines going to the
TV transmitters and satellite uplink facilities which had full
power backup via huge generators. I suppose that was something to
be a bit paranoid about for the power company.

TDD

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Wow! Seven galons. My little Coleman has a one gal tank. For
winter power cuts, I run it for an hour or so in the evening
to run the furnace. It has been a while, but I don't think I
ever totally fill the one galon tank. Use oil lamps and
flash lights for light.


My PowerBoss has 5,500 running watts and 7,350 peak. I think tank is 7
gal but I've never run more than a tank in one day. Last time I used it
was last week. I had a furnace check scheduled and power went out 4
hours before furnace guy was to arrive, so I turned on generator when he
called and said he was on his way. He had no problem checking out
furnace and there was power to the furnace room light so he could see
well. Power came back about 2 hours after he left.

It's unfortunate the degradation in our power grid. We live in an area
with a lot of trees and power company does not trim enough. After 11
outages one year lasting up to 3 days, I bought generator.

bob haller wrote:
there are standards and safety regulations for very good
reasons.......

The NEC is there to save future lives.

Who is there to save past lives? *snicker*

TDD

Mormons, doing genealogy, and ordinances in the temples.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"The Daring Dufas" wrote in
message ...
bob haller wrote:
there are standards and safety regulations for very good
reasons.......

The NEC is there to save future lives.

Who is there to save past lives? *snicker*

TDD

Eleven outages? That's enough to really make you think about
alternatives. For a while, I had a marine battery on a float
charger. I still have the marine battery. But, the float
charger boiled the battery dry and killed it. Someday I may
trade it in, get another battery. The goal was to run a
power inverter, and from there to the furnace. So I could
quietly run heat for an hour or so, when the electric was
off. The inverter didn't have enough power, and after that I
got a different furnace.

Do you have several UPS at your place, to provide a bit of
run time for floor lamp, computer, that kind of thing?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Frank" wrote in message
-

My PowerBoss has 5,500 running watts and 7,350 peak. I
think tank is 7
gal but I've never run more than a tank in one day. Last
time I used it
was last week. I had a furnace check scheduled and power
went out 4
hours before furnace guy was to arrive, so I turned on
generator when he
called and said he was on his way. He had no problem
checking out
furnace and there was power to the furnace room light so he
could see
well. Power came back about 2 hours after he left.

It's unfortunate the degradation in our power grid. We live
in an area
with a lot of trees and power company does not trim enough.
After 11
outages one year lasting up to 3 days, I bought generator.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Mormons, doing genealogy, and ordinances in the temples.


I save at The First Bank Of Mormon. *snicker*

TDD