I am picking up a 5000w cont. / 6500w surge generator which should be
more than enough for my needs. I want to keep the refrigerator, 240v
water pump, the oil boiler circualtors, and a few lights at at time
running. Practically the whole house has the CF lights so my lighting
is about 1/4 normal. My max surge is 4000w and running is 2400w.

My home's 100A power panel is spread out pretty well where each room
has its own 15A breaker which makes my transfer switch wiring a
problem. Most of the switches seem to come with one 240 breaker (for
my well) and 4 - 15A circuits (1 for Kitchen for fridge and 1 for
heating). This leaves 2 rooms for lighting which is the most
miniscule part of my needs.

Rather than wiring up individual circuits is it possible to get a
transfer switch that transfers the entire power to the generator
line?

On Oct 12, 7:59�am, Jordan wrote:
I am picking up a 5000w cont. / 6500w surge generator which should be
more than enough for my needs. �I want to keep the refrigerator, 240v
water pump, the oil boiler circualtors, and a few lights at at time
running. �Practically the whole house has the CF lights so my lighting
is about 1/4 normal. �My max surge is 4000w and running is 2400w.

My home's 100A power panel is spread out pretty well where each room
has its own 15A breaker which makes my transfer switch wiring a
problem. �Most of the switches seem to come with one 240 breaker (for
my well) and 4 - 15A circuits (1 for Kitchen for fridge and 1 for
heating). �This leaves 2 rooms for lighting which is the most
miniscule part of my needs.

Rather than wiring up individual circuits is it possible to get a
transfer switch that transfers the entire power to the generator
line?

dont forget having enough fuel on hand for such a load. a real
gasoline piggie, and since few gas stations have backup generators, no
gas no power.

some existing main panels have a lock out main breaker to allow legal
backfeeding of your home.

either main OR generator but not both at once,.

a main transfer switch should be available

Jordan wrote:

I am picking up a 5000w cont. / 6500w surge generator which should be
more than enough for my needs. I want to keep the refrigerator, 240v
water pump, the oil boiler circualtors, and a few lights at at time
running. Practically the whole house has the CF lights so my lighting
is about 1/4 normal. My max surge is 4000w and running is 2400w.

4000w surge? Do you have a special no-surge pump? [and don't
forget the defrost cycle on your frig and freezer] I don't have a
pump and kicked off my 5500w generator last winter. [daddy forgot
and used the microwave] But it did run the frig, freezer, a bunch
of lights & the furnace.


My home's 100A power panel is spread out pretty well where each room
has its own 15A breaker which makes my transfer switch wiring a
problem. Most of the switches seem to come with one 240 breaker (for
my well) and 4 - 15A circuits (1 for Kitchen for fridge and 1 for
heating). This leaves 2 rooms for lighting which is the most
miniscule part of my needs.

Here are some 8, 10, & 12 Gen-tran transfer switches-
http://www.apelectric.com/Manual-Tra...ches-s/128.htm


Rather than wiring up individual circuits is it possible to get a
transfer switch that transfers the entire power to the generator
line?

I imagine-- BTW- If you're hiring an electrician for this you might
want to ask him about putting a 150 or 200amp service panel in.
Probably not a lot more when he's right there. My insurance
company was trying to get me to upgrade my 150 a few years back.

Jim

"Jordan" wrote in message
...
I am picking up a 5000w cont. / 6500w surge generator which should be
more than enough for my needs. I want to keep the refrigerator, 240v
water pump, the oil boiler circualtors, and a few lights at at time
running. Practically the whole house has the CF lights so my lighting
is about 1/4 normal. My max surge is 4000w and running is 2400w.

My home's 100A power panel is spread out pretty well where each room
has its own 15A breaker which makes my transfer switch wiring a
problem. Most of the switches seem to come with one 240 breaker (for
my well) and 4 - 15A circuits (1 for Kitchen for fridge and 1 for
heating). This leaves 2 rooms for lighting which is the most
miniscule part of my needs.

Rather than wiring up individual circuits is it possible to get a
transfer switch that transfers the entire power to the generator
line?


*You could do something like this company offers:
http://www.interlockkit.com/index.htm

Yes.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Jordan" wrote in message
...
I am picking up a 5000w cont. / 6500w surge generator which
should be
more than enough for my needs. I want to keep the
refrigerator, 240v
water pump, the oil boiler circualtors, and a few lights at
at time
running. Practically the whole house has the CF lights so
my lighting
is about 1/4 normal. My max surge is 4000w and running is
2400w.

My home's 100A power panel is spread out pretty well where
each room
has its own 15A breaker which makes my transfer switch
wiring a
problem. Most of the switches seem to come with one 240
breaker (for
my well) and 4 - 15A circuits (1 for Kitchen for fridge and
1 for
heating). This leaves 2 rooms for lighting which is the
most
miniscule part of my needs.

Rather than wiring up individual circuits is it possible to
get a
transfer switch that transfers the entire power to the
generator
line?

Years ago, I studied the various catalogs, and did some
division on their numbers. I came up with a galon of gas
provides 4,000 watts for one hour. Think that's what I ended
up.

As such, plan to feed your generator a galon an hour.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"bob haller" wrote in message
...

dont forget having enough fuel on hand for such a load. a
real
gasoline piggie, and since few gas stations have backup
generators, no
gas no power.

John Grabowski wrote:
"Jordan" wrote in message
...
I am picking up a 5000w cont. / 6500w surge generator which should be
more than enough for my needs. I want to keep the refrigerator, 240v
water pump, the oil boiler circualtors, and a few lights at at time
running. Practically the whole house has the CF lights so my
lighting is about 1/4 normal. My max surge is 4000w and running is
2400w. My home's 100A power panel is spread out pretty well where each
room
has its own 15A breaker which makes my transfer switch wiring a
problem. Most of the switches seem to come with one 240 breaker (for
my well) and 4 - 15A circuits (1 for Kitchen for fridge and 1 for
heating). This leaves 2 rooms for lighting which is the most
miniscule part of my needs.

Rather than wiring up individual circuits is it possible to get a
transfer switch that transfers the entire power to the generator
line?


*You could do something like this company offers:
http://www.interlockkit.com/index.htm

Yep. $150 for a 6x6 inch bit of sheet metal with a couple of holes.

My view is: If the power company wants their linemen protected from
backfeed, they should provide the interlocks.

Jordan wrote:
I am picking up a 5000w cont. / 6500w surge generator which should be
more than enough for my needs. I want to keep the refrigerator, 240v
water pump, the oil boiler circualtors, and a few lights at at time
running. Practically the whole house has the CF lights so my lighting
is about 1/4 normal. My max surge is 4000w and running is 2400w.

My home's 100A power panel is spread out pretty well where each room
has its own 15A breaker which makes my transfer switch wiring a
problem. Most of the switches seem to come with one 240 breaker (for
my well) and 4 - 15A circuits (1 for Kitchen for fridge and 1 for
heating). This leaves 2 rooms for lighting which is the most
miniscule part of my needs.

Rather than wiring up individual circuits is it possible to get a
transfer switch that transfers the entire power to the generator
line?

Short answer - make your own transfer switch:

Add a dual 30Amp breaker to the panel. Feed the generator to this breaker
via a 240 volt male outlet (inlet?).

This special breaker should be OFF when power is being supplied by the
mains. To enable the generator, turn OFF the main breaker, turn ON this
special breaker, connect the generator.

In sum, when the power goes out:
* Connect the generator
* Flip two switches (main to OFF, special to ON)
* Start generator

When the power resumes:
* Flip special to OFF, main to ON
* Disconnect generator

You're good to go.

On Oct 12, 10:31�am, "HeyBub" wrote:
John Grabowski wrote:
"Jordan" wrote in message
....
I am picking up a 5000w cont. / 6500w surge generator which should be
more than enough for my needs. �I want to keep the refrigerator, 240v
water pump, the oil boiler circualtors, and a few lights at at time
running. �Practically the whole house has the CF lights so my
lighting is about 1/4 normal. �My max surge is 4000w and running is
2400w. My home's 100A power panel is spread out pretty well where each
room
has its own 15A breaker which makes my transfer switch wiring a
problem. �Most of the switches seem to come with one 240 breaker (for
my well) and 4 - 15A circuits (1 for Kitchen for fridge and 1 for
heating). �This leaves 2 rooms for lighting which is the most
miniscule part of my needs.

Rather than wiring up individual circuits is it possible to get a
transfer switch that transfers the entire power to the generator
line?

*You could do something like this company offers:
http://www.interlockkit.com/index.htm

Yep. $150 for a 6x6 inch bit of sheet metal with a couple of holes.

My view is: If the power company wants their linemen protected from
backfeed, they should provide the interlocks.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

backfeeds are illegal, linemen have died, and the illegal connection
proscuted.

but truly is saving a few bucks worth risking lives?

John Grabowski wrote:

"Jordan" wrote in message
...
I am picking up a 5000w cont. / 6500w surge generator which should be
more than enough for my needs. I want to keep the refrigerator, 240v
water pump, the oil boiler circualtors, and a few lights at at time
running. Practically the whole house has the CF lights so my lighting
is about 1/4 normal. My max surge is 4000w and running is 2400w.

My home's 100A power panel is spread out pretty well where each room
has its own 15A breaker which makes my transfer switch wiring a
problem. Most of the switches seem to come with one 240 breaker (for
my well) and 4 - 15A circuits (1 for Kitchen for fridge and 1 for
heating). This leaves 2 rooms for lighting which is the most
miniscule part of my needs.

Rather than wiring up individual circuits is it possible to get a
transfer switch that transfers the entire power to the generator
line?


*You could do something like this company offers:
http://www.interlockkit.com/index.htm

Really nice find. That is the way to go.

SquareD has an equivalent device.

--
bud--

HeyBub wrote:
John Grabowski wrote:
"Jordan" wrote in message
...
I am picking up a 5000w cont. / 6500w surge generator which should be
more than enough for my needs. I want to keep the refrigerator, 240v
water pump, the oil boiler circualtors, and a few lights at at time
running. Practically the whole house has the CF lights so my
lighting is about 1/4 normal. My max surge is 4000w and running is
2400w. My home's 100A power panel is spread out pretty well where each
room
has its own 15A breaker which makes my transfer switch wiring a
problem. Most of the switches seem to come with one 240 breaker (for
my well) and 4 - 15A circuits (1 for Kitchen for fridge and 1 for
heating). This leaves 2 rooms for lighting which is the most
miniscule part of my needs.

Rather than wiring up individual circuits is it possible to get a
transfer switch that transfers the entire power to the generator
line?

*You could do something like this company offers:
http://www.interlockkit.com/index.htm

Yep. $150 for a 6x6 inch bit of sheet metal with a couple of holes.

My view is: If the power company wants their linemen protected from
backfeed, they should provide the interlocks.


Thats quite a point of view. Why should the power company (funded by its
customers) pay to install equipment to protect from someone who simply
doesn't care and just wants to do it their way? In this particular case
what equipment would they install and where would they install it to
protect against someone clueless enough to defy all common sense and
standard practice?

On Mon, 12 Oct 2009 09:37:57 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Years ago, I studied the various catalogs, and did some
division on their numbers. I came up with a galon of gas
provides 4,000 watts for one hour. Think that's what I ended
up.

As such, plan to feed your generator a galon an hour.

In real life you don't run things at full load. My 5500watts Briggs
and Stratton with a 7 gallon lasts 13 hours at 1/2 load. [and in
practice that seems to be about what it gets.]

The Honda should do better as it regulates engine speed.

Jim

HeyBub wrote:
Jordan wrote:
I am picking up a 5000w cont. / 6500w surge generator which should be
more than enough for my needs. I want to keep the refrigerator, 240v
water pump, the oil boiler circualtors, and a few lights at at time
running. Practically the whole house has the CF lights so my lighting
is about 1/4 normal. My max surge is 4000w and running is 2400w.

My home's 100A power panel is spread out pretty well where each room
has its own 15A breaker which makes my transfer switch wiring a
problem. Most of the switches seem to come with one 240 breaker (for
my well) and 4 - 15A circuits (1 for Kitchen for fridge and 1 for
heating). This leaves 2 rooms for lighting which is the most
miniscule part of my needs.

Rather than wiring up individual circuits is it possible to get a
transfer switch that transfers the entire power to the generator
line?

Short answer - make your own transfer switch:

Add a dual 30Amp breaker to the panel. Feed the generator to this breaker
via a 240 volt male outlet (inlet?).

This special breaker should be OFF when power is being supplied by the
mains. To enable the generator, turn OFF the main breaker, turn ON this
special breaker, connect the generator.

In sum, when the power goes out:
* Connect the generator
* Flip two switches (main to OFF, special to ON)
* Start generator

When the power resumes:
* Flip special to OFF, main to ON
* Disconnect generator

You're good to go.


Or not, what you described is not a transfer switch. A transfer switch
is interlocked to strictly connect supply 1 or supply 2 but never both.
What you described doesn't accomplish any of that and assumes you will
be the only one using it, will live forever and never be tired or in ill
health or will even never drink that extra glass of bourbon.

bob haller wrote:
*You could do something like this company offers:
http://www.interlockkit.com/index.htm

Yep. $150 for a 6x6 inch bit of sheet metal with a couple of holes.

My view is: If the power company wants their linemen protected from
backfeed, they should provide the interlocks.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

backfeeds are illegal, linemen have died, and the illegal connection
proscuted.

but truly is saving a few bucks worth risking lives?

Certainly. Chances are, if a lineman IS killed, you didn't know him. So, ask
yourself the next time you're standing in the long line at the movie or
restaurant....

George wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
Jordan wrote:
I am picking up a 5000w cont. / 6500w surge generator which should
be more than enough for my needs. I want to keep the refrigerator,
240v water pump, the oil boiler circualtors, and a few lights at at
time running. Practically the whole house has the CF lights so my
lighting is about 1/4 normal. My max surge is 4000w and running is
2400w. My home's 100A power panel is spread out pretty well where each
room
has its own 15A breaker which makes my transfer switch wiring a
problem. Most of the switches seem to come with one 240 breaker
(for my well) and 4 - 15A circuits (1 for Kitchen for fridge and 1
for heating). This leaves 2 rooms for lighting which is the most
miniscule part of my needs.

Rather than wiring up individual circuits is it possible to get a
transfer switch that transfers the entire power to the generator
line?

Short answer - make your own transfer switch:

Add a dual 30Amp breaker to the panel. Feed the generator to this
breaker via a 240 volt male outlet (inlet?).

This special breaker should be OFF when power is being supplied by
the mains. To enable the generator, turn OFF the main breaker, turn
ON this special breaker, connect the generator.

In sum, when the power goes out:
* Connect the generator
* Flip two switches (main to OFF, special to ON)
* Start generator

When the power resumes:
* Flip special to OFF, main to ON
* Disconnect generator

You're good to go.


Or not, what you described is not a transfer switch. A transfer switch
is interlocked to strictly connect supply 1 or supply 2 but never
both.

Ah, right. Thanks for the correction. What I propose is power transfered by
a switch, not a transfer switch.

I apologize for the confusion.


What you described doesn't accomplish any of that and assumes
you will be the only one using it, will live forever and never be
tired or in ill health or will even never drink that extra glass of
bourbon.

Correct. And your point is?

On Oct 12, 3:14*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
George wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
Jordan wrote:
I am picking up a 5000w cont. / 6500w surge generator which should
be more than enough for my needs. *I want to keep the refrigerator,
240v water pump, the oil boiler circualtors, and a few lights at at
time running. *Practically the whole house has the CF lights so my
lighting is about 1/4 normal. *My max surge is 4000w and running is
2400w. My home's 100A power panel is spread out pretty well where each
room
has its own 15A breaker which makes my transfer switch wiring a
problem. *Most of the switches seem to come with one 240 breaker
(for my well) and 4 - 15A circuits (1 for Kitchen for fridge and 1
for heating). *This leaves 2 rooms for lighting which is the most
miniscule part of my needs.

Rather than wiring up individual circuits is it possible to get a
transfer switch that transfers the entire power to the generator
line?

Short answer - make your own transfer switch:

Add a dual 30Amp breaker to the panel. Feed the generator to this
breaker via a 240 volt male outlet (inlet?).

This special breaker should be OFF when power is being supplied by
the mains. To enable the generator, turn OFF the main breaker, turn
ON this special breaker, connect the generator.

In sum, when the power goes out:
* Connect the generator
* Flip two switches (main to OFF, special to ON)
* Start generator

When the power resumes:
* Flip special to OFF, main to ON
* Disconnect generator

You're good to go.

Or not, what you described is not a transfer switch. A transfer switch
is interlocked to strictly connect supply 1 or supply 2 but never
both.

Ah, right. Thanks for the correction. What I propose is power transfered by
a switch, not a transfer switch.

I apologize for the confusion.

What you described doesn't accomplish any of that and assumes
you will be the only one using it, will live forever and never be
tired or in ill health or will even never drink that extra glass of
bourbon.

Correct. And your point is?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


I think what he's suggesting is that what you are proposing is illegal
and for the small amount of money involved, it's not worth it. In
fact, I would say what you proposed he do is far worse than Van
Chocstraw's suggestion to backfeed via a generator suicide cord
plugged into the dryer outlet.

While both are illegal and code violations, at least Van's is a
clearly temporary settup. Your proposing that he add a breaker and
240V male outlet to the main panel as a permanent addition. For
starters, I've never seen such a male outlet and it seems for good
reason. Does such a thing really exist? And now you have a
permanent installation in total violation of the law, code, etc.
Suppose the installer drops dead one day? Who knows what others in
the family, future buyers etc will or won't do? Or how about one
day the guy decides to have his kitchen remodeled and the contractor
does the right thing and pulls permits. What do you think the
electrical inspector is going to say when he sees your contraption?

On Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:15:05 -0400, George
wrote:

[snip]

Short answer - make your own transfer switch:

Add a dual 30Amp breaker to the panel. Feed the generator to this breaker
via a 240 volt male outlet (inlet?).

This special breaker should be OFF when power is being supplied by the
mains. To enable the generator, turn OFF the main breaker, turn ON this
special breaker, connect the generator.

In sum, when the power goes out:
* Connect the generator
* Flip two switches (main to OFF, special to ON)
* Start generator

When the power resumes:
* Flip special to OFF, main to ON
* Disconnect generator

You're good to go.


Or not, what you described is not a transfer switch. A transfer switch
is interlocked to strictly connect supply 1 or supply 2 but never both.
What you described doesn't accomplish any of that and assumes you will
be the only one using it, will live forever and never be tired or in ill
health or will even never drink that extra glass of bourbon.

Of course, perfection isn't...

This web page is by far the best I've seen online for home transfer
panel information.

http://members.rennlist.org/warren/generator.html

HeyBub wrote:
Jordan wrote:
I am picking up a 5000w cont. / 6500w surge generator which should be
more than enough for my needs. I want to keep the refrigerator, 240v
water pump, the oil boiler circualtors, and a few lights at at time
running. Practically the whole house has the CF lights so my lighting
is about 1/4 normal. My max surge is 4000w and running is 2400w.

My home's 100A power panel is spread out pretty well where each room
has its own 15A breaker which makes my transfer switch wiring a
problem. Most of the switches seem to come with one 240 breaker (for
my well) and 4 - 15A circuits (1 for Kitchen for fridge and 1 for
heating). This leaves 2 rooms for lighting which is the most
miniscule part of my needs.

Rather than wiring up individual circuits is it possible to get a
transfer switch that transfers the entire power to the generator
line?

Short answer - make your own transfer switch:

Add a dual 30Amp breaker to the panel. Feed the generator to this breaker
via a 240 volt male outlet (inlet?).

This special breaker should be OFF when power is being supplied by the
mains. To enable the generator, turn OFF the main breaker, turn ON this
special breaker, connect the generator.

In sum, when the power goes out:
* Connect the generator
* Flip two switches (main to OFF, special to ON)
* Start generator

When the power resumes:
* Flip special to OFF, main to ON
* Disconnect generator

You're good to go.


Here we freaking go again. Has it been a month already?
--
aem sends...

HeyBub wrote:
George wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
Jordan wrote:
I am picking up a 5000w cont. / 6500w surge generator which should
be more than enough for my needs. I want to keep the refrigerator,
240v water pump, the oil boiler circualtors, and a few lights at at
time running. Practically the whole house has the CF lights so my
lighting is about 1/4 normal. My max surge is 4000w and running is
2400w. My home's 100A power panel is spread out pretty well where each
room
has its own 15A breaker which makes my transfer switch wiring a
problem. Most of the switches seem to come with one 240 breaker
(for my well) and 4 - 15A circuits (1 for Kitchen for fridge and 1
for heating). This leaves 2 rooms for lighting which is the most
miniscule part of my needs.

Rather than wiring up individual circuits is it possible to get a
transfer switch that transfers the entire power to the generator
line?
Short answer - make your own transfer switch:

Add a dual 30Amp breaker to the panel. Feed the generator to this
breaker via a 240 volt male outlet (inlet?).

This special breaker should be OFF when power is being supplied by
the mains. To enable the generator, turn OFF the main breaker, turn
ON this special breaker, connect the generator.

In sum, when the power goes out:
* Connect the generator
* Flip two switches (main to OFF, special to ON)
* Start generator

When the power resumes:
* Flip special to OFF, main to ON
* Disconnect generator

You're good to go.


Or not, what you described is not a transfer switch. A transfer switch
is interlocked to strictly connect supply 1 or supply 2 but never
both.

Ah, right. Thanks for the correction. What I propose is power transfered by
a switch, not a transfer switch.

I apologize for the confusion.


What you described doesn't accomplish any of that and assumes
you will be the only one using it, will live forever and never be
tired or in ill health or will even never drink that extra glass of
bourbon.

Correct. And your point is?


So are you a gadfly or do you really believe what you write?

wrote:
On Oct 12, 3:14 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
George wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
Jordan wrote:
I am picking up a 5000w cont. / 6500w surge generator which should
be more than enough for my needs. I want to keep the refrigerator,
240v water pump, the oil boiler circualtors, and a few lights at at
time running. Practically the whole house has the CF lights so my
lighting is about 1/4 normal. My max surge is 4000w and running is
2400w. My home's 100A power panel is spread out pretty well where each
room
has its own 15A breaker which makes my transfer switch wiring a
problem. Most of the switches seem to come with one 240 breaker
(for my well) and 4 - 15A circuits (1 for Kitchen for fridge and 1
for heating). This leaves 2 rooms for lighting which is the most
miniscule part of my needs.
Rather than wiring up individual circuits is it possible to get a
transfer switch that transfers the entire power to the generator
line?
Short answer - make your own transfer switch:
Add a dual 30Amp breaker to the panel. Feed the generator to this
breaker via a 240 volt male outlet (inlet?).
This special breaker should be OFF when power is being supplied by
the mains. To enable the generator, turn OFF the main breaker, turn
ON this special breaker, connect the generator.
In sum, when the power goes out:
* Connect the generator
* Flip two switches (main to OFF, special to ON)
* Start generator
When the power resumes:
* Flip special to OFF, main to ON
* Disconnect generator
You're good to go.
Or not, what you described is not a transfer switch. A transfer switch
is interlocked to strictly connect supply 1 or supply 2 but never
both.
Ah, right. Thanks for the correction. What I propose is power transfered by
a switch, not a transfer switch.

I apologize for the confusion.

What you described doesn't accomplish any of that and assumes
you will be the only one using it, will live forever and never be
tired or in ill health or will even never drink that extra glass of
bourbon.
Correct. And your point is?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


I think what he's suggesting is that what you are proposing is illegal
and for the small amount of money involved, it's not worth it. In
fact, I would say what you proposed he do is far worse than Van
Chocstraw's suggestion to backfeed via a generator suicide cord
plugged into the dryer outlet.


Yes and aside from legality and even if there were no requirements it is
just completely wrong to cobble together a potentially lethal
nonstandard installation.



While both are illegal and code violations, at least Van's is a
clearly temporary settup. Your proposing that he add a breaker and
240V male outlet to the main panel as a permanent addition. For
starters, I've never seen such a male outlet and it seems for good
reason. Does such a thing really exist? And now you have a
permanent installation in total violation of the law, code, etc.
Suppose the installer drops dead one day? Who knows what others in
the family, future buyers etc will or won't do? Or how about one
day the guy decides to have his kitchen remodeled and the contractor
does the right thing and pulls permits. What do you think the
electrical inspector is going to say when he sees your contraption?

On Mon, 12 Oct 2009 09:31:31 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote Re Generator wiring options:

Yep. $150 for a 6x6 inch bit of sheet metal with a couple of holes.

My view is: If the power company wants their linemen protected from
backfeed, they should provide the interlocks.


I like the way you think.
--
I filter all messages from google groups.

"John Grabowski" wrote in message
...

"Jordan" wrote in message
...
I am picking up a 5000w cont. / 6500w surge generator which should be
more than enough for my needs. I want to keep the refrigerator, 240v
water pump, the oil boiler circualtors, and a few lights at at time
running. Practically the whole house has the CF lights so my lighting
is about 1/4 normal. My max surge is 4000w and running is 2400w.

My home's 100A power panel is spread out pretty well where each room
has its own 15A breaker which makes my transfer switch wiring a
problem. Most of the switches seem to come with one 240 breaker (for
my well) and 4 - 15A circuits (1 for Kitchen for fridge and 1 for
heating). This leaves 2 rooms for lighting which is the most
miniscule part of my needs.

Rather than wiring up individual circuits is it possible to get a
transfer switch that transfers the entire power to the generator
line?


*You could do something like this company offers:
http://www.interlockkit.com/index.htm
I agree, for your needs, this is the safest and least expensive way to go

I'm sure that will be a great comfort to the widows, and
attorneys for the power company.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...

My view is: If the power company wants their linemen
protected from
backfeed, they should provide the interlocks.

I was helping a freind of mine do some wiring in his
trailer. We were about to cut a branch circuit in the
bedroom. I suggested turning off the power. He thought he
had. Turns out the panel didn't have main breaker, and he'd
only turned off the power to the water heater.

Plumber came to do some work on my water heater, in a
rented shop. I suggested we turn off the power. He looked
surprised. He had flipped a switch next the the WH. The only
thing he did was turn off the heat tape for the pipes over
head. I know, I'm the guy who put that switch on.

Hey, do what you want with the transfer swich. The two
stories above are real life, I was there and saw both of
them happen. Are you 100 % sure that you, relatives, and
anyone using your equipment will open the main? Do they know
which one is the main?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Van Chocstraw" wrote in
message
...

That's about a 30 amp generator. You can feed it into the
panel via the
dryer outlet and it will take care of all your stuff, except
electric
hot water heater and electric oven. Just kill the main
breaker before
you connect it. Yes, this is illegal but it works like a
charm without a
$300 transfer switch.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
I'm sure that will be a great comfort to the widows, and
attorneys for the power company.

I am unexcelled at "comforting" widows.

As for the attorneys, can you say "contributory negligence?"

Stormin Mormon wrote:
I was helping a freind of mine do some wiring in his
trailer. We were about to cut a branch circuit in the
bedroom. I suggested turning off the power. He thought he
had. Turns out the panel didn't have main breaker, and he'd
only turned off the power to the water heater.

Plumber came to do some work on my water heater, in a
rented shop. I suggested we turn off the power. He looked
surprised. He had flipped a switch next the the WH. The only
thing he did was turn off the heat tape for the pipes over
head. I know, I'm the guy who put that switch on.

Hey, do what you want with the transfer swich. The two
stories above are real life, I was there and saw both of
them happen. Are you 100 % sure that you, relatives, and
anyone using your equipment will open the main? Do they know
which one is the main?

If the two chaps you chronicled are not snappy enough to actually TEST for
voltage before they lay hands on the wire, they are, perhaps, candidates for
a lineman's job that so many worry about.

As for the odd person knowing which circuit breaker is which, they're
labeled. And not with some strange acronym like "WH" that stands for "Heat
Tape." That said, and as you so ably point out, absolute reliance on a
properly-labeled circuit breaker is also a source of disaster.

George wrote:
wrote:
On Oct 12, 3:14 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
George wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
Jordan wrote:
I am picking up a 5000w cont. / 6500w surge generator which
should be more than enough for my needs. I want to keep the
refrigerator, 240v water pump, the oil boiler circualtors, and a
few lights at at time running. Practically the whole house has
the CF lights so my lighting is about 1/4 normal. My max surge
is 4000w and running is 2400w. My home's 100A power panel is
spread out pretty well where each room
has its own 15A breaker which makes my transfer switch wiring a
problem. Most of the switches seem to come with one 240 breaker
(for my well) and 4 - 15A circuits (1 for Kitchen for fridge and
1 for heating). This leaves 2 rooms for lighting which is the
most miniscule part of my needs.
Rather than wiring up individual circuits is it possible to get a
transfer switch that transfers the entire power to the generator
line?
Short answer - make your own transfer switch:
Add a dual 30Amp breaker to the panel. Feed the generator to this
breaker via a 240 volt male outlet (inlet?).
This special breaker should be OFF when power is being supplied by
the mains. To enable the generator, turn OFF the main breaker,
turn ON this special breaker, connect the generator.
In sum, when the power goes out:
* Connect the generator
* Flip two switches (main to OFF, special to ON)
* Start generator
When the power resumes:
* Flip special to OFF, main to ON
* Disconnect generator
You're good to go.
Or not, what you described is not a transfer switch. A transfer
switch is interlocked to strictly connect supply 1 or supply 2 but
never both.
Ah, right. Thanks for the correction. What I propose is power
transfered by a switch, not a transfer switch.

I apologize for the confusion.

What you described doesn't accomplish any of that and assumes
you will be the only one using it, will live forever and never be
tired or in ill health or will even never drink that extra glass of
bourbon.
Correct. And your point is?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


I think what he's suggesting is that what you are proposing is
illegal and for the small amount of money involved, it's not worth
it. In fact, I would say what you proposed he do is far worse than
Van Chocstraw's suggestion to backfeed via a generator suicide cord
plugged into the dryer outlet.


Yes and aside from legality and even if there were no requirements it
is just completely wrong to cobble together a potentially lethal
nonstandard installation.



Both you an Trader are mistaken. The construct I suggested is legal (with
one minor modification). The "minor modification" is the installation to the
above of a "generator interlock."

Here's a PDF on how a generator interlock is configured (some study
required):
http://www.interlockkit.com/InstrK5410QOVertNewDsn.pdf

Here's a picture of what a typical installation looks like
http://www.interlockkit.com/typicalinstall1.htm

And here's an exterior generator access plug
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/4XT17

"It's dark in here. And cold. I saw him do it once. Here,
it's like this.... bring that candle closer so I can see to
fill the gasoline.......I know the gascan and generator are
in the cellar here some where."

Shall I give you some more narrative?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Van Chocstraw" wrote in
message
...
If they are that stupid what are they doing screwing with
it.

HeyBub wrote:
bob haller wrote:
*You could do something like this company offers:
http://www.interlockkit.com/index.htm
Yep. $150 for a 6x6 inch bit of sheet metal with a couple of holes.

My view is: If the power company wants their linemen protected from
backfeed, they should provide the interlocks.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
backfeeds are illegal, linemen have died, and the illegal connection
proscuted.

but truly is saving a few bucks worth risking lives?

Certainly. Chances are, if a lineman IS killed, you didn't know him. So, ask
yourself the next time you're standing in the long line at the movie or
restaurant....



Do you really have no disregard for human life?

My guess is that you are a bored housewife who posts lots of nonsense
looking for attention...

HeyBub wrote:
George wrote:
wrote:
On Oct 12, 3:14 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
George wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
Jordan wrote:
I am picking up a 5000w cont. / 6500w surge generator which
should be more than enough for my needs. I want to keep the
refrigerator, 240v water pump, the oil boiler circualtors, and a
few lights at at time running. Practically the whole house has
the CF lights so my lighting is about 1/4 normal. My max surge
is 4000w and running is 2400w. My home's 100A power panel is
spread out pretty well where each room
has its own 15A breaker which makes my transfer switch wiring a
problem. Most of the switches seem to come with one 240 breaker
(for my well) and 4 - 15A circuits (1 for Kitchen for fridge and
1 for heating). This leaves 2 rooms for lighting which is the
most miniscule part of my needs.
Rather than wiring up individual circuits is it possible to get a
transfer switch that transfers the entire power to the generator
line?
Short answer - make your own transfer switch:
Add a dual 30Amp breaker to the panel. Feed the generator to this
breaker via a 240 volt male outlet (inlet?).
This special breaker should be OFF when power is being supplied by
the mains. To enable the generator, turn OFF the main breaker,
turn ON this special breaker, connect the generator.
In sum, when the power goes out:
* Connect the generator
* Flip two switches (main to OFF, special to ON)
* Start generator
When the power resumes:
* Flip special to OFF, main to ON
* Disconnect generator
You're good to go.
Or not, what you described is not a transfer switch. A transfer
switch is interlocked to strictly connect supply 1 or supply 2 but
never both.
Ah, right. Thanks for the correction. What I propose is power
transfered by a switch, not a transfer switch.

I apologize for the confusion.

What you described doesn't accomplish any of that and assumes
you will be the only one using it, will live forever and never be
tired or in ill health or will even never drink that extra glass of
bourbon.
Correct. And your point is?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I think what he's suggesting is that what you are proposing is
illegal and for the small amount of money involved, it's not worth
it. In fact, I would say what you proposed he do is far worse than
Van Chocstraw's suggestion to backfeed via a generator suicide cord
plugged into the dryer outlet.

Yes and aside from legality and even if there were no requirements it
is just completely wrong to cobble together a potentially lethal
nonstandard installation.



Both you an Trader are mistaken. The construct I suggested is legal (with
one minor modification). The "minor modification" is the installation to the
above of a "generator interlock."

Here's a PDF on how a generator interlock is configured (some study
required):
http://www.interlockkit.com/InstrK5410QOVertNewDsn.pdf

Here's a picture of what a typical installation looks like
http://www.interlockkit.com/typicalinstall1.htm

And here's an exterior generator access plug
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/4XT17



I would say it isn't me who is mistaken. Backpedaling won't change that
or give you ant credability. You stated this in this very thread when
that very interlock kit was suggested:

"Yep. $150 for a 6x6 inch bit of sheet metal with a couple of holes.

My view is: If the power company wants their linemen protected from
backfeed, they should provide the interlocks. "

Van Chocstraw wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
I was helping a freind of mine do some wiring in his trailer. We were
about to cut a branch circuit in the bedroom. I suggested turning off
the power. He thought he had. Turns out the panel didn't have main
breaker, and he'd only turned off the power to the water heater.

Plumber came to do some work on my water heater, in a rented shop. I
suggested we turn off the power. He looked surprised. He had flipped a
switch next the the WH. The only thing he did was turn off the heat
tape for the pipes over head. I know, I'm the guy who put that switch on.

Hey, do what you want with the transfer swich. The two stories above
are real life, I was there and saw both of them happen. Are you 100 %
sure that you, relatives, and anyone using your equipment will open
the main? Do they know which one is the main?

If they are that stupid what are they doing screwing with it.

Unfortunately not everyone leads *your* life. They may live with others,
children may be involved, visitors may be involved, there can be
emergency situations, people get sick or tired or even incapacitated
etc. Thats why standard safety practices were devised.

Linemen work 16 - 18 hurs for many days when storms strike, often in
nasty weather.

give them a break and do the job RIGHT, its not that expensive and a
positive at home resale time

Question:

Let's say a person tries to backfeed a generator into a home (without
the proper xfer switch) that has *not* been isolated from the grid by
tripping the Main breaker of the home. The generator is now feeding
back into the grid to all the rest of the homes on the grid and trying
to power all of their electrical loads.

What happens to that 5 or 6 kW generator? How soon will it happen?
--
I filter all messages from google groups.

Wish he wouldn't use the top 8 inches or so of web page to
complain about bad hookups. Just tell the right way, and
explain why each part of the right way is right.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Jim Grollmuss" wrote in
message ...

This web page is by far the best I've seen online for home
transfer
panel information.

http://members.rennlist.org/warren/generator.html

In theory, a breaker trips on the generator. How fast? Well,
depends if it's a Federal Pacific Electric breaker on the
generator.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Caesar Romano" wrote in message
...
Question:

Let's say a person tries to backfeed a generator into a home
(without
the proper xfer switch) that has *not* been isolated from
the grid by
tripping the Main breaker of the home. The generator is now
feeding
back into the grid to all the rest of the homes on the grid
and trying
to power all of their electrical loads.

What happens to that 5 or 6 kW generator? How soon will it
happen?
--
I filter all messages from google groups.

On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 08:59:28 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote Re Generator wiring
options:

In theory, a breaker trips on the generator. How fast? Well,
depends if it's a Federal Pacific Electric breaker on the
generator.

Ball park? 1sec?, 1min?, 1hour?

And before the breaker on the generator trips, the 5kW gen is trying
to feed several hundred kW on the grid. ISTM that the gen would stop
dead even if the gen breaker didn't pop.
--
I filter all messages from google groups.

Most brands: Under 1/10 second.
Federal Pacific Electric: Well over 5 years before it trips.

With no breaker, my WAG is that either a secondary wire on
the generator overheats and burns out, or the motor slows to
stall point. Either of those in two to ten seconds. Easily
enough time to kill a pole worker.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Caesar Romano" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 08:59:28 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote Re Generator
wiring
options:

In theory, a breaker trips on the generator. How fast?
Well,
depends if it's a Federal Pacific Electric breaker on the
generator.

Ball park? 1sec?, 1min?, 1hour?

And before the breaker on the generator trips, the 5kW gen
is trying
to feed several hundred kW on the grid. ISTM that the gen
would stop
dead even if the gen breaker didn't pop.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Most brands: Under 1/10 second.
Federal Pacific Electric: Well over 5 years before it trips.

With no breaker, my WAG is that either a secondary wire on
the generator overheats and burns out, or the motor slows to
stall point. Either of those in two to ten seconds. Easily
enough time to kill a pole worker.

a) it'll be out of phase and very unlikely at all to not stall it
immediately; the overload is later

b) it was postulated the line was _already_ live; the gen-set in this
case wouldn't be the culprit (altho still both illegal and stupid trick
to pull).

Back-feed to distribution system is a serious problem when the line is
_supposed_to_be_ disconnected (and has been by the utility or known
damage) so the presence of voltage is unexpected. If they know they're
working on stuff live then they won't work as if they were working on a
(known) disconnected line. Where it's really a problem (and got one of
our local co-op linemen a few years ago) is a situation such as a
disconnected line, actually confirm it was isolated and talk to the
farmstead owner who subsequently got impatient and hooked up the gen-set
while they were still working w/o notifying them...

Moral of story as homeowner is--don't be an ass or dumb****...

--

On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 07:46:56 -0400, George
wrote:

[snip]

I would say it isn't me who is mistaken. Backpedaling won't change that
or give you ant credability. You stated this in this very thread when
that very interlock kit was suggested:

"Yep. $150 for a 6x6 inch bit of sheet metal with a couple of holes.

My view is: If the power company wants their linemen protected from
backfeed, they should provide the interlocks. "

If you connect your generator to the power grid you're interfering
with THEIR system without their knowledge or permission.