Hello,

I have an older Kenmore Electric Dryer SER #M61901833 Mod #86671100
66711.

A few months back I checked the clothes mid-cycle and found the inside door
and the clothes to be very hot, hotter than I thought was normal.

This week I did 3 loads back to back, the room developed a stink like a dead
mouse! I traced the smell to two very hot 30A (screw in) fuses. The fuses
do not blow. The dryer has it's own box right off the main, and the dryer
is only a few feet from the box. No recent changes to anything.

When I run the dryer on a AIR (no heat) cycle the fuses do not get hot. I
can turn the drum OK by hand. When I run a Heat cycle on low/med/or high
the fuses start heading up after some time, maybe 5-7 mins not sure.

I checked the wire connections in Main, side box, outlet, pigtail, one-time
dryer fuse, cycling thermostat, and high-limit thermostat and all are tight
and clean. The high-limit thermostat (2-wires) is in the heater chamber
(tube), the cycling thermostat (4 wires) is near the exhuast vent.

Could the cycling thermostat be stuck closed? What about the high-limit
therm? Any way to bench test these parts to see if they open at all? I
am little concerned that the 30A (fast acting) fuses did not blow, nor did
the dryer's one-time fuse.

Any help/suggestions are welcomed.

Thanks for your time,
Jim

On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 01:04:50 -0600, "Jim2009"
wrote:

Hello,

I have an older Kenmore Electric Dryer SER #M61901833 Mod #86671100
66711.

A few months back I checked the clothes mid-cycle and found the inside door
and the clothes to be very hot, hotter than I thought was normal.

This week I did 3 loads back to back, the room developed a stink like a dead
mouse! I traced the smell to two very hot 30A (screw in) fuses. The fuses
do not blow. The dryer has it's own box right off the main, and the dryer
is only a few feet from the box. No recent changes to anything.

When I run the dryer on a AIR (no heat) cycle the fuses do not get hot. I
can turn the drum OK by hand. When I run a Heat cycle on low/med/or high
the fuses start heading up after some time, maybe 5-7 mins not sure.

I checked the wire connections in Main, side box, outlet, pigtail, one-time
dryer fuse, cycling thermostat, and high-limit thermostat and all are tight
and clean. The high-limit thermostat (2-wires) is in the heater chamber
(tube), the cycling thermostat (4 wires) is near the exhuast vent.

Could the cycling thermostat be stuck closed? What about the high-limit
therm? Any way to bench test these parts to see if they open at all? I
am little concerned that the 30A (fast acting) fuses did not blow, nor did
the dryer's one-time fuse.

Any help/suggestions are welcomed.

Thanks for your time,
Jim


Are the contacts clean where the fuse screws in?
Shut off the power and use a pencil erasor on the contacts, both on
the box, and on the fuse itself. Be sure to look for burnt contacts
in the fuse box. I have seen that happen.

Better yet, replace it with a breaker. You can buy small addon boxes
that will hold one double ro two single breakers. Just mount it on
the side of your main box.

What do you mean about a one time dryer fuse?

Of course the fuses only get warm during the dryer heating cycle. On
cool air, your only running a motor. On heat cycle, you're sucking a
lot of power for the heating elements (like an electric space heater),
PLUS the motor.

"Jim2009" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I have an older Kenmore Electric Dryer SER #M61901833 Mod #86671100
66711.

A few months back I checked the clothes mid-cycle and found the inside
door and the clothes to be very hot, hotter than I thought was normal.

This week I did 3 loads back to back, the room developed a stink like a
dead mouse! I traced the smell to two very hot 30A (screw in) fuses. The
fuses do not blow. The dryer has it's own box right off the main, and the
dryer is only a few feet from the box. No recent changes to anything.

When I run the dryer on a AIR (no heat) cycle the fuses do not get hot. I
can turn the drum OK by hand. When I run a Heat cycle on low/med/or high
the fuses start heading up after some time, maybe 5-7 mins not sure.

I checked the wire connections in Main, side box, outlet, pigtail,
one-time dryer fuse, cycling thermostat, and high-limit thermostat and all
are tight and clean. The high-limit thermostat (2-wires) is in the heater
chamber (tube), the cycling thermostat (4 wires) is near the exhuast vent.

Could the cycling thermostat be stuck closed? What about the high-limit
therm? Any way to bench test these parts to see if they open at all?
I am little concerned that the 30A (fast acting) fuses did not blow, nor
did the dryer's one-time fuse.

Any help/suggestions are welcomed.

Thanks for your time,
Jim


It would really help for you to have an ammeter. This is really the only way
to know how much current is flowing on each leg of the circuit, and if it's
the proper amount. You also need to know that the voltage is correct, and
that the conductor size of the dryer feeder is correct

On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 01:04:50 -0600, "Jim2009"
wrote:

Hello,

I have an older Kenmore Electric Dryer SER #M61901833 Mod #86671100
66711.

A few months back I checked the clothes mid-cycle and found the inside door
and the clothes to be very hot, hotter than I thought was normal.

This week I did 3 loads back to back, the room developed a stink like a dead
mouse! I traced the smell to two very hot 30A (screw in) fuses. The fuses
do not blow. The dryer has it's own box right off the main, and the dryer
is only a few feet from the box. No recent changes to anything.

When I run the dryer on a AIR (no heat) cycle the fuses do not get hot. I
can turn the drum OK by hand. When I run a Heat cycle on low/med/or high
the fuses start heading up after some time, maybe 5-7 mins not sure.

I checked the wire connections in Main, side box, outlet, pigtail, one-time
dryer fuse, cycling thermostat, and high-limit thermostat and all are tight
and clean. The high-limit thermostat (2-wires) is in the heater chamber
(tube), the cycling thermostat (4 wires) is near the exhuast vent.

Could the cycling thermostat be stuck closed? What about the high-limit
therm? Any way to bench test these parts to see if they open at all? I
am little concerned that the 30A (fast acting) fuses did not blow, nor did
the dryer's one-time fuse.

Any help/suggestions are welcomed.

Thanks for your time,
Jim

Checking connections would be first step; you did that.

If you have a way to measure current (clamp on ammeter would be
easiest) you can tell if it's cycling by watching the current draw
during operation.

I have done a quick test of thermostats with an ohmmeter and a heat
gun. That will tell you if it's opening at all, but not check
temperature. You can use an ohmmeter while the stat is sitting in a
pan on the stove with a shallow layer of water and use a cooking
thermometer to check the temp, but may be easier just to replace the
stat.

I wouldn't necessarily expect the fuses to blow even if the stat
wasn't cycling; they will blow on over current, but the current draw
will be normal unless there is a wiring or element fault. Of course
if they get hot enough....

Does the drying time seem shorter than you remember? If the stat
wasn't cycling, you'd expect it to be shorter....

In any case, sure doesn't sound safe; I wouldn't use it until you
figure out the problem.

HTH,

Paul F.

On Jan 19, 8:15�am, Paul Franklin
wrote:
On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 01:04:50 -0600, "Jim2009"
wrote:





Hello,

I have an older Kenmore Electric Dryer SER #M61901833 �Mod #86671100
66711.

A few months back I checked the clothes mid-cycle and found the inside door
and the clothes to be very hot, hotter than I thought was normal.

This week I did 3 loads back to back, the room developed a stink like a dead
mouse! �I traced the smell to two very hot 30A (screw in) fuses. �The fuses
do not blow. �The dryer has it's own box right off the main, and the dryer
is only a few feet from the box. �No recent changes to anything.

When I run the dryer on a AIR (no heat) cycle the fuses do not get hot. �I
can turn the drum OK by hand. �When I run a Heat cycle on low/med/or high
the fuses start heading up after some time, maybe 5-7 mins not sure.

I checked the wire connections in Main, side box, outlet, pigtail, one-time
dryer fuse, cycling thermostat, and high-limit thermostat and all are tight
and clean. �The high-limit thermostat (2-wires) is in the heater chamber
(tube), the cycling thermostat (4 wires) is near the exhuast vent.

Could the cycling thermostat be stuck closed? �What about the high-limit
therm? �Any way to bench test these �parts to see if they open at all? � �I
am little concerned that the 30A (fast acting) fuses did not blow, nor did
the dryer's one-time fuse.

Any help/suggestions are welcomed.

Thanks for your time,
Jim

Checking connections would be first step; you did that.

If you have a way to measure current (clamp on ammeter would be
easiest) you can tell if it's cycling by watching the current draw
during operation.

I have done a quick test of thermostats with an ohmmeter and a heat
gun. �That will tell you if it's opening at all, but not check
temperature. �You can use an ohmmeter while the stat is sitting in a
pan on the stove with a shallow layer of water and use a cooking
thermometer to check the temp, but may be easier just to replace the
stat.

I wouldn't necessarily expect the fuses to blow even if the stat
wasn't cycling; they will blow on over current, but the current draw
will be normal unless there is a wiring or element fault. �Of course
if they get hot enough....

Does the drying time seem shorter than you remember? �If the stat
wasn't cycling, you'd expect it to be shorter....

In any case, sure doesn't sound safe; I wouldn't use it until you
figure out the problem.

HTH,

Paul F.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

my seat of the pants opinion, the fuse connection isnt good, having
hot fuses the wres on the fuse holder are likely toasted, i would
replace the fuse panel with breakers

Jim2009 wrote:
Hello,

I have an older Kenmore Electric Dryer SER #M61901833 Mod #86671100
66711.

A few months back I checked the clothes mid-cycle and found the
inside door and the clothes to be very hot, hotter than I thought was
normal.
This week I did 3 loads back to back, the room developed a stink like
a dead mouse! I traced the smell to two very hot 30A (screw in)
fuses. The fuses do not blow. The dryer has it's own box right off
the main, and the dryer is only a few feet from the box. No recent
changes to anything.
When I run the dryer on a AIR (no heat) cycle the fuses do not get
hot. I can turn the drum OK by hand. When I run a Heat cycle on
low/med/or high the fuses start heading up after some time, maybe 5-7
mins not sure.
I checked the wire connections in Main, side box, outlet, pigtail,
one-time dryer fuse, cycling thermostat, and high-limit thermostat
and all are tight and clean. The high-limit thermostat (2-wires) is
in the heater chamber (tube), the cycling thermostat (4 wires) is
near the exhuast vent.
Could the cycling thermostat be stuck closed? What about the
high-limit therm? Any way to bench test these parts to see if they
open at all? I am little concerned that the 30A (fast acting)
fuses did not blow, nor did the dryer's one-time fuse.

Any help/suggestions are welcomed.

You don't, by any chance, have 60-amp fuses in a 30-amp circuit?

Are the contacts clean where the fuse screws in?
Shut off the power and use a pencil erasor on the contacts, both on
the box, and on the fuse itself. Be sure to look for burnt contacts
in the fuse box. I have seen that happen.

I will look closer at this.


Better yet, replace it with a breaker. You can buy small addon boxes
that will hold one double ro two single breakers. Just mount it on
the side of your main box.

At a later date, I'm planning on replacing the main fuse box with a larger
breaker box, so the two add-on boxes will go away.


What do you mean about a one time dryer fuse?

There is a one-time temp rated fuse in the exhaust, it's a fail safe for if
the dryer gets too hot and the therms don't cycle off.


Of course the fuses only get warm during the dryer heating cycle. On
cool air, your only running a motor. On heat cycle, you're sucking a
lot of power for the heating elements (like an electric space heater),
PLUS the motor.

Yes, I realize that, I was just indicating that the motor alone was not a
problem. So one might assume with caution, that the motor is not shorting
out and that the bearings/rollers are in working condition, of course an Amp
meter test would be better than an assumption.

Cheers,
Jim

It would really help for you to have an ammeter. This is really the only
way to know how much current is flowing on each leg of the circuit, and if
it's the proper amount. You also need to know that the voltage is correct,
and that the conductor size of the dryer feeder is correct




I will check the voltage. I have an older Amp Clamp multi-function meter.
I tried to use the Amp meter a couple of years ago, never got a reading not
sure if it works or I was doing something wrong, will look into it or maybe
buying a new one.

Cheers,
Jim

HeyBub wrote:

Jim2009 wrote:

Hello,

I have an older Kenmore Electric Dryer SER #M61901833 Mod #86671100
66711.

A few months back I checked the clothes mid-cycle and found the
inside door and the clothes to be very hot, hotter than I thought was
normal.
This week I did 3 loads back to back, the room developed a stink like
a dead mouse! I traced the smell to two very hot 30A (screw in)
fuses. The fuses do not blow. The dryer has it's own box right off
the main, and the dryer is only a few feet from the box. No recent
changes to anything.
When I run the dryer on a AIR (no heat) cycle the fuses do not get
hot. I can turn the drum OK by hand. When I run a Heat cycle on
low/med/or high the fuses start heading up after some time, maybe 5-7
mins not sure.
I checked the wire connections in Main, side box, outlet, pigtail,
one-time dryer fuse, cycling thermostat, and high-limit thermostat
and all are tight and clean. The high-limit thermostat (2-wires) is
in the heater chamber (tube), the cycling thermostat (4 wires) is
near the exhuast vent.
Could the cycling thermostat be stuck closed? What about the
high-limit therm? Any way to bench test these parts to see if they
open at all? I am little concerned that the 30A (fast acting)
fuses did not blow, nor did the dryer's one-time fuse.

Any help/suggestions are welcomed.


You don't, by any chance, have 60-amp fuses in a 30-amp circuit?



Why would you ask that, HeyBub?

If you can show me a link to a place selling "screw in" fuses larger
than 30 amps I'll apologize for what I just wrote.

I agree with those who've opined that some electrical connection(s)
within the fuse box have developed higher than normal resistance and are
generating more heat than they normally would. Even if a thermostat in
the dryer is stuck closed, the fuse box components should not reach the
smelly "very hot" condition the OP describes.

If the OP does not have a clamp on ammeter but does have an ac voltmeter
he could measure the small voltage drop(s) across the fuse box terminals
which could give him a clue that poor connections are causing the fuses
to heat.

He should also look for poor connections caused by loose terminal screws
in that fuse box

He could probably spot the "cycling" he's wondering about by noting
whether the voltage drops across those fuses change dramatically from
time to time during operation of the dryer.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

On Jan 19, 1:04*am, "Jim2009" wrote:
....
... I traced the smell to two very hot 30A (screw in) fuses. *The fuses
do not blow. *The dryer has it's own box right off the main, and the dryer
is only a few feet from the box. *No recent changes to anything.

....
I checked the wire connections in Main, side box, outlet, pigtail, one-time
dryer fuse, cycling thermostat, and high-limit thermostat and all are tight
and clean. *The high-limit thermostat (2-wires) is in the heater chamber
(tube), the cycling thermostat (4 wires) is near the exhuast vent.

Could the cycling thermostat be stuck closed? *What about the high-limit
therm? *Any way to bench test these *parts to see if they open at all? * *I
am little concerned that the 30A (fast acting) fuses did not blow, nor did
the dryer's one-time fuse.

....

If the fuses themselves are the only part of the circuit wiring that
is getting hot, then the problem has to be either the connection at
the fuse holder, the fuse holder itself (somebody mention the latter;
not sure about the former) or the fuse bases themselves are dirty/
corroded/loose. Faults in the other connections while an issue to
resolve would cause heating local to them, not at the fuses.

As someone else noted, this is not something to leave go unattended.

--

"Jim2009" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I have an older Kenmore Electric Dryer SER #M61901833 Mod #86671100
66711.

A few months back I checked the clothes mid-cycle and found the inside
door
and the clothes to be very hot, hotter than I thought was normal.

This week I did 3 loads back to back, the room developed a stink like a
dead
mouse! I traced the smell to two very hot 30A (screw in) fuses. The
fuses
do not blow. The dryer has it's own box right off the main, and the dryer
is only a few feet from the box. No recent changes to anything.

When I run the dryer on a AIR (no heat) cycle the fuses do not get hot. I
can turn the drum OK by hand. When I run a Heat cycle on low/med/or high
the fuses start heading up after some time, maybe 5-7 mins not sure.

I checked the wire connections in Main, side box, outlet, pigtail,
one-time
dryer fuse, cycling thermostat, and high-limit thermostat and all are
tight
and clean. The high-limit thermostat (2-wires) is in the heater chamber
(tube), the cycling thermostat (4 wires) is near the exhuast vent.

Could the cycling thermostat be stuck closed? What about the high-limit
therm? Any way to bench test these parts to see if they open at all?
I
am little concerned that the 30A (fast acting) fuses did not blow, nor did
the dryer's one-time fuse.

Any help/suggestions are welcomed.

Thanks for your time,
Jim



My concern is that fuses do not wear out nor gain ampacity with age. I
would check the wire size to the dryer. If the wire is not rated for 30
amps then you have found your problem.

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.

Checking connections would be first step; you did that.


I will re-check them.


If you have a way to measure current (clamp on ammeter would be
easiest) you can tell if it's cycling by watching the current draw
during operation.


Good idea.

I have done a quick test of thermostats with an ohmmeter and a heat
gun.

Hmm, wonder is a hair dryer would get hot enough?

That will tell you if it's opening at all, but not check
temperature. You can use an ohmmeter while the stat is sitting in a
pan on the stove with a shallow layer of water and use a cooking
thermometer to check the temp, but may be easier just to replace the
stat.

I wouldn't necessarily expect the fuses to blow even if the stat
wasn't cycling; they will blow on over current, but the current draw
will be normal unless there is a wiring or element fault. Of course
if they get hot enough....

Does the drying time seem shorter than you remember? If the stat
wasn't cycling, you'd expect it to be shorter....

That's hard to judge becuase the washer is on it's last leg too. The
clothes from the washer are wetter than when it was new. The internal
shut-off leaks and spin cycle get off-balance often, and it leaks fluid, so
the spin cycle is not as efficient as it should be. I was going to replace
the pair this summer.


In any case, sure doesn't sound safe; I wouldn't use it until you
figure out the problem.

Yep.


HTH,

Paul F.



Thanks,
Jim

my seat of the pants opinion, the fuse connection isnt good, having
hot fuses the wres on the fuse holder are likely toasted, i would
replace the fuse panel with breakers

I'm planing on replacing all the fuse boxes (main and two add-on) with a new
Main w/breakers but not at this point.

Thanks,
Jim

On Jan 19, 1:04*am, "Jim2009" wrote:
Hello,

I have an older Kenmore Electric Dryer SER #M61901833 *Mod #86671100
66711.

A few months back I checked the clothes mid-cycle and found the inside door
and the clothes to be very hot, hotter than I thought was normal.

This week I did 3 loads back to back, the room developed a stink like a dead
mouse! *I traced the smell to two very hot 30A (screw in) fuses. *The fuses
do not blow. *The dryer has it's own box right off the main, and the dryer
is only a few feet from the box. *No recent changes to anything.

When I run the dryer on a AIR (no heat) cycle the fuses do not get hot. *I
can turn the drum OK by hand. *When I run a Heat cycle on low/med/or high
the fuses start heading up after some time, maybe 5-7 mins not sure.

I checked the wire connections in Main, side box, outlet, pigtail, one-time
dryer fuse, cycling thermostat, and high-limit thermostat and all are tight
and clean. *The high-limit thermostat (2-wires) is in the heater chamber
(tube), the cycling thermostat (4 wires) is near the exhuast vent.

Could the cycling thermostat be stuck closed? *What about the high-limit
therm? *Any way to bench test these *parts to see if they open at all? * *I
am little concerned that the 30A (fast acting) fuses did not blow, nor did
the dryer's one-time fuse.

Any help/suggestions are welcomed.

Thanks for your time,
Jim

You don't have aluminum wiring, do you?

Joe

You don't, by any chance, have 60-amp fuses in a 30-amp circuit?


No I have two 30A fuses.

Later,
Jim

Why would you ask that, HeyBub?

If you can show me a link to a place selling "screw in" fuses larger than
30 amps I'll apologize for what I just wrote.

I agree with those who've opined that some electrical connection(s) within
the fuse box have developed higher than normal resistance and are
generating more heat than they normally would. Even if a thermostat in the
dryer is stuck closed, the fuse box components should not reach the smelly
"very hot" condition the OP describes.

If the OP does not have a clamp on ammeter but does have an ac voltmeter
he could measure the small voltage drop(s) across the fuse box terminals
which could give him a clue that poor connections are causing the fuses to
heat.

He should also look for poor connections caused by loose terminal screws
in that fuse box

He could probably spot the "cycling" he's wondering about by noting
whether the voltage drops across those fuses change dramatically from time
to time during operation of the dryer.

Jeff

--

Thanks Jeff, I'm going to re-check everything again. I'm looking into a Amp
meter. I have an old one that may not work, so I might pick up a new one.

Cheers,
Jim



Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

If the fuses themselves are the only part of the circuit wiring that
is getting hot, then the problem has to be either the connection at
the fuse holder, the fuse holder itself (somebody mention the latter;
not sure about the former) or the fuse bases themselves are dirty/
corroded/loose. Faults in the other connections while an issue to
resolve would cause heating local to them, not at the fuses.

Both fuses are cool during Air Only Cycle (I know just one side - 120 should
be in use then). When I run a Heat Cycle both fuses get hot, very hot,
almost to hot to touch (Yes, I know both 120's are now in play). This is a
3-wire pig-tail.

I will take a closer look at the fuses/holder/wires.

As someone else noted, this is not something to leave go unattended.

I have stopped using the dryer and I shut the dryer add-on box off.

Cheers,
Jim

--

My concern is that fuses do not wear out nor gain ampacity with age. I
would check the wire size to the dryer. If the wire is not rated for 30
amps then you have found your problem.

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube,
then
they come up with this striped stuff.



I pretty sure the wire is heavy enough, also this dryer and wiring have been
in place for maybe 12-15 years or more?

Cheers,
Jim

On Jan 19, 11:29*am, "Roger Shoaf" wrote:
....
would check the wire size to the dryer. *If the wire is not rated for 30
amps then you have found your problem.
....

That would heat the wire, not the fuses themselves...

--

On Jan 19, 11:56*am, "Jim2009" wrote:
....
I agree with those who've opined that some electrical connection(s) within
the fuse box have developed higher than normal resistance and are
generating more heat than they normally would. Even if a thermostat in the
dryer is stuck closed, the fuse box components should not reach the smelly
"very hot" condition the OP describes.

Precisely...

If the OP does not have a clamp on ammeter but does have an ac voltmeter
he could measure the small voltage drop(s) across the fuse box terminals
which could give him a clue that poor connections are causing the fuses to
heat.

He should also look for poor connections caused by loose terminal screws
in that fuse box

He could probably spot the "cycling" he's wondering about by noting
whether the voltage drops across those fuses change dramatically from time
to time during operation of the dryer.

Jeff
....
Thanks Jeff, I'm going to re-check everything again. I'm looking into a Amp
meter. *I have an old one that may not work, so I might pick up a new one.
....

If you do, go for the clamp-on variety. Most DVM's don't have the
facility to measure household currents and they require inline
insertion which is a pita besides for most household-type diagnostics.

As Jeff notes, you could make an indirect measurement to observe if
was some high resistance across the fuses themselves w/ the voltmeter
directly.

I'd probably suggest just trying a new fuse just as a "can't hurt"
shotgunning approach but again, if it's only the fuses that are
overheating your problem is a high-impedance connection somewhere in
that vicinity. As Jeff correctly notes, even if the thermostat isn't
cycling, the overheating isn't occurring at the dryer but in the fuse
box so you need to fix that then worry about whether there's another
problem in the dryer as well.

If the fusebox is mounted and can't see the base of the sockets behind
them, it may be a corrosion problem (from, say, a damp basement wall
it's mounted on, maybe?) that you can't see other than by removing the
holder box or, if it's the old separate bar type, disassembling it.

--

Jeff Wisnia wrote:


You don't, by any chance, have 60-amp fuses in a 30-amp circuit?



Why would you ask that, HeyBub?

If you can show me a link to a place selling "screw in" fuses larger
than 30 amps I'll apologize for what I just wrote.

Where to get? At a bank. One hundred for a dollar.

HeyBub wrote:
Jeff Wisnia wrote:


You don't, by any chance, have 60-amp fuses in a 30-amp circuit?



Why would you ask that, HeyBub?

If you can show me a link to a place selling "screw in" fuses larger
than 30 amps I'll apologize for what I just wrote.


Where to get? At a bank. One hundred for a dollar.





Good one!

Lim time:

He was reading, when out went the light,
So he looked for a fuse, quite uptight.
But he couldn't find any,
So he used an old penny.
The blaze lasted well past midnight.


Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

You don't have aluminum wiring, do you?

Joe


No.

On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 11:09:11 -0800 (PST), dpb
wrote:

On Jan 19, 11:29Â*am, "Roger Shoaf" wrote:
...
would check the wire size to the dryer. Â*If the wire is not rated for 30
amps then you have found your problem.
...

That would heat the wire, not the fuses themselves...

It would heat the connections, not the wire - and the connection at
the fuse holder could be heating even if it is physically tight

In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:

Where to get? At a bank. One hundred for a dollar.

Some "fuse", ya phoney...! big grin
--

JR

Dryer Box; I took apart the fuse holders and cleaned all contact points
(including the fuses) with emery cloth and then with water. One screw
assembles each fuse holder locking the holder (threads) and the wire
connection bar in place.

I found a corroded connection on one gate/post (when you flip the level on
the box). It was on the heater side. It was not to bad, looked like a bit
of the copper in the gate had transferred to the post which is more like
silver. I also squeezed the gate prongs together to tighten the fit.

I found a major problem inside the outlet box after removing the cover, one
side of one of the female prongs was broken. The male side prong (cord
side) had some heat damage. I cleaned up the prongs on the cord. Replaced
the dryer outlet with a new one. Hooked everything back up, ran the dryer
on high heat without clothes for 30 mins, check the fuses - both were just
slightly warm, nothing at all like before.

Washed a load, put them in the dryer, opened a beer. Checked the fuses
about 20 mins into the load, heater side was hot again! (as it was in the
beginning) But the motor side is now just slightly warm! I removed the
fuse from the heater side and found some small arc points on the fuse tip
and the screw head it contacts. I tightened the screw a bit, took the 30A
fuse from the motor side and stuck it in the heater side, put a new 15A in
the motor side. (I'm out of 30's, will get new ones tomorrow). I ran the
dryer for another 10 mins, checked fuses - both just slightly warm. (Maybe
it was not long enough for it to get hot, will run longer tomorrow.)

I may tighten the screw inside the fuse holder a bit more, I didn't want to
over do it.

Anyone have an idea how many Amps each side (heater/motor) should draw? I
think I need to replace the box, but I would like to make sure the dryer is
not the problem.

How about this Meter for checking the Amps? Cen-tech Digital Clamp Meter at
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=96308
or this one
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=98675

So here's my plan.
1) Buy a new meter, check Amps for both sides, if normal replace fuse box.
If not normal, then back to the dryer.......

Cheers,
Jim

On Jan 19, 12:04*pm, "Jim2009" wrote:
Hello,

I have an older Kenmore Electric Dryer SER #M61901833 *Mod #86671100
66711.

A few months back I checked the clothes mid-cycle and found the inside door
and the clothes to be very hot, hotter than I thought was normal.

This week I did 3 loads back to back, the room developed a stink like a dead
mouse! *I traced the smell to two very hot 30A (screw in) fuses. *The fuses
do not blow. *The dryer has it's own box right off the main, and the dryer
is only a few feet from the box. *No recent changes to anything.

When I run the dryer on a AIR (no heat) cycle the fuses do not get hot. *I
can turn the drum OK by hand. *When I run a Heat cycle on low/med/or high
the fuses start heading up after some time, maybe 5-7 mins not sure.

I checked the wire connections in Main, side box, outlet, pigtail, one-time
dryer fuse, cycling thermostat, and high-limit thermostat and all are tight
and clean. *The high-limit thermostat (2-wires) is in the heater chamber
(tube), the cycling thermostat (4 wires) is near the exhuast vent.

Could the cycling thermostat be stuck closed? *What about the high-limit
therm? *Any way to bench test these *parts to see if they open at all? * *I
am little concerned that the 30A (fast acting) fuses did not blow, nor did
the dryer's one-time fuse.

Any help/suggestions are welcomed.

Thanks for your time,
Jim

hi your problem seems to be strange

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 11:45:56 -0600, "Jim2009"
wrote:


my seat of the pants opinion, the fuse connection isnt good, having
hot fuses the wres on the fuse holder are likely toasted, i would
replace the fuse panel with breakers

I'm planing on replacing all the fuse boxes (main and two add-on) with a
new
Main w/breakers but not at this point.

Thanks,
Jim


I just read this whole thread. So you're going to burn your house
down rather than spend around $25 for an add-on box to install NOW.
Put the breaker box above the dryer, and run proper size cable to the
main box. When you install your new main panel, you'll only need to
connect those wires and you'll have 2 spare breaker slots in your
main. You have a problem in that fuse box, which is likely 50 years
old. If it's hot enough to smoke, toss it and replace it. Don't be
an idiot and burn your house down for the price of a couple six packs.

Ya, I know you shut off the power for the moment, but what are you
going to do? Are you going to take your laundry to a laundromat until
you replace your fuse box? At $1 a dryer load at the 'mat, you'll
spend more than $25 in one week alone.

LM

Your an Idiot!

There's just got to be one on every board.

Cheers,
Jim

On Jan 20, 5:02*am, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 11:45:56 -0600, "Jim2009"
wrote:



my seat of the pants opinion, the fuse connection isn't good, having
hot fuses the wrens on the fuse holder are likely toasted, i would
replace the fuse panel with breakers

I'm planing on replacing all the fuse boxes (main and two add-on) with a new
Main w/breakers but not at this point.

Thanks,
Jim

I just read this whole thread. *So you're going to burn your house
down rather than spend around $25 for an add-on box to install NOW.
Put the breaker box above the dryer, and run proper size cable to the
main box. *When you install your new main panel, you'll only need to
connect those wires and you'll have 2 spare breaker slots in your
main. *You have a problem in that fuse box, which is likely 50 years
old. *If it's hot enough to smoke, toss it and replace it. *Don't be
an idiot and burn your house down for the price of a couple six packs.

Ya, I know you shut off the power for the moment, but what are you
going to do? *Are you going to take your laundry to a laundromat until
you replace your fuse box? *At $1 a dryer load at the 'mat, you'll
spend more than $25 in one week alone.

LM

Does this post suggest that the wires from the 'main box' not be
protected at all by fuses or circuit breakers? The wiring for a dryer
(30 amp) should probably be #10 AWG fed from either fuses or a DP
circuit breaker IN THE MAIN PANEL?

What is the suggestion here; that the wires to a pony/external fuse
box/panel be tapped on somewhere to the busses in the main panel and
then external fuses fed by thin gauge (#12 or #10 AWG) be provided????

The picture is most confusing! If some thing's getting hot it sounds
like either bad connections. Or, another suggestion; has one of the
heating element inside the dryer broken or sagged and made contact
with the metal frame of the dryer (presumably grounded?). Thus causing
additional current to flow, via ground and thereby possibly by passing
some of the safety (e.g. over heat) switches inside the dryer which
are in the 230 volt circuit.

Assumptions: This is a fairly standard 230 volt 2 or 3 wire North
American style dryer which is grounded.

Jim2009 wrote:

How about this Meter for checking the Amps? Cen-tech Digital Clamp
Meter at
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=96308
or this one
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=98675

So here's my plan.
1) Buy a new meter, check Amps for both sides, if normal replace
fuse box. If not normal, then back to the dryer.......


I've got the $10.00 one. Seems sufficient for checking loads.

On Jan 20, 1:20*am, "Jim2009" wrote:
Dryer Box; I took apart the fuse holders and cleaned all contact points
(including the fuses) with emery cloth and then with water. *One screw
assembles each fuse holder locking the holder (threads) and the wire
connection bar in place.

I found a corroded connection on one gate/post (when you flip the level on
the box). *It was on the heater side. *It was not to bad, looked like a bit
of the copper in the gate had transferred to the post which is more like
silver. *I also squeezed the gate prongs together to tighten the fit.

I found a major problem inside the outlet box after removing the cover, one
side of one of the female prongs was broken. *The male side prong (cord
side) had some heat damage. *I cleaned up the prongs on the cord. *Replaced
the dryer outlet with a new one. *Hooked everything back up, ran the dryer
on high heat without clothes for 30 mins, check the fuses - both were just
slightly warm, nothing at all like before.

Washed a load, put them in the dryer, opened a beer. *Checked the fuses
about 20 mins into the load, heater side was hot again! *(as it was in the
beginning) *But the motor side is now just slightly warm! *I removed the
fuse from the heater side and found some small arc points on the fuse tip
and the screw head it contacts. *I tightened the screw a bit, took the 30A
fuse from the motor side and stuck it in the heater side, put a new 15A in
the motor side. *(I'm out of 30's, will get new ones tomorrow). *I ran the
dryer for another 10 mins, checked fuses - both just slightly warm. *(Maybe
it was not long enough for it to get hot, will run longer tomorrow.)

I may tighten the screw inside the fuse holder a bit more, I didn't want to
over do it.

Anyone have an idea how many Amps each side (heater/motor) should draw? *I
think I need to replace the box, but I would like to make sure the dryer is
not the problem.


I'm not an expert in dryers, but I don't think there is one side for
the heater and one side for the motor. I would expect the heater
current flows through both legs, providing the heater with 240V. The
motor could be 120 and if so, would flow through one leg.

If it were me, I'd replace that box with a breaker as suggested. I
would not trust it, regardless of what else you find. And while I was
at it, since the main fuse panel is apparently located in a similar
environment and by all indications is likely even older, I'd get that
replaced by a new breaker panel too.



How about this Meter for checking the Amps? *Cen-tech Digital Clamp Meter athttp://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=96308
*or this onehttp://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=98675

So here's my plan.
1) *Buy a new meter, check Amps for both sides, if normal replace fuse box.
If not normal, then back to the dryer.......

Cheers,
Jim

On Jan 19, 11:05*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 11:09:11 -0800 (PST), dpb
wrote:

On Jan 19, 11:29*am, "Roger Shoaf" wrote:
...
would check the wire size to the dryer. *If the wire is not rated for 30
amps then you have found your problem.
...

That would heat the wire, not the fuses themselves...

It would heat the connections, not the wire - and the connection at
the fuse holder could be heating even if it is physically tight

On Jan 19, 11:05*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 11:09:11 -0800 (PST), dpb
wrote:

On Jan 19, 11:29*am, "Roger Shoaf" wrote:
...
would check the wire size to the dryer. *If the wire is not rated for 30
amps then you have found your problem.
...

That would heat the wire, not the fuses themselves...

It would heat the connections, not the wire - and the connection at
the fuse holder could be heating even if it is physically tight

The heat will be generated at the high(er) resistance point(s) -- if
the wire were small-enough to be a voltage dropping element in the
circuit, it would be a distributed heater (albeit lower resistance
than, but similar to the dryer heating element). If the connections
are bad somewhere, they'll generate heat at that (those) resistance
point(s), not somewhere else.

If there were a stray path to ground it might be possible to draw
excess current over the normal load and still be under the fuse
ratings. But, any heating effects would still be effected at the point
(s) of higher resistance in the circuit. If only the fuse box/fuses
are overheating, there has to be a high resistance point there
somewhere--high resistance somewhere else can't transfer its I-squared-
R losses across the ether to be dissipated elsewhere.

--

Does this post suggest that the wires from the 'main box' not be
protected at all by fuses or circuit breakers? The wiring for a dryer
(30 amp) should probably be #10 AWG fed from either fuses or a DP
circuit breaker IN THE MAIN PANEL?

What is the suggestion here; that the wires to a pony/external fuse
box/panel be tapped on somewhere to the busses in the main panel and
then external fuses fed by thin gauge (#12 or #10 AWG) be provided????

The picture is most confusing! If some thing's getting hot it sounds
like either bad connections. Or, another suggestion; has one of the
heating element inside the dryer broken or sagged and made contact
with the metal frame of the dryer (presumably grounded?). Thus causing
additional current to flow, via ground and thereby possibly by passing
some of the safety (e.g. over heat) switches inside the dryer which
are in the 230 volt circuit.

Assumptions: This is a fairly standard 230 volt 2 or 3 wire North
American style dryer which is grounded.



The add-on box is wired to the main with #10 gauage, and the dryer is wired
from the add-on also with #10 gauge. It's a 30 Amp rated add-on box. The
outlet is 50A rated. The add-on box, the dryer, and wire were all installed
new at the same time by a qualified person several years ago. It's a 3 wire
system.

I visually checked the heater element cold and it looked OK but it was a
little hard to see near the top (vertical tube). I was going to look at it
while it was hot, but I'm waiting until I get a meter so I can also measure
the amps to see if they increase as the dryer runs longer.

Cheers,
Jim

"dpb" wrote in message
...
On Jan 19, 11:05 pm, wrote:
On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 11:09:11 -0800 (PST), dpb
wrote:

On Jan 19, 11:29 am, "Roger Shoaf" wrote:
...
would check the wire size to the dryer. If the wire is not rated for 30
amps then you have found your problem.
...

That would heat the wire, not the fuses themselves...

It would heat the connections, not the wire - and the connection at
the fuse holder could be heating even if it is physically tight

The heat will be generated at the high(er) resistance point(s) -- if
the wire were small-enough to be a voltage dropping element in the
circuit, it would be a distributed heater (albeit lower resistance
than, but similar to the dryer heating element). If the connections
are bad somewhere, they'll generate heat at that (those) resistance
point(s), not somewhere else.

If there were a stray path to ground it might be possible to draw
excess current over the normal load and still be under the fuse
ratings. But, any heating effects would still be effected at the point
(s) of higher resistance in the circuit. If only the fuse box/fuses
are overheating, there has to be a high resistance point there
somewhere--high resistance somewhere else can't transfer its I-squared-
R losses across the ether to be dissipated elsewhere.

--

All the wires are 10 gauge (from the main to the add-on and to the dryer).
The add-on box is rated 30 Amp, and the outlet is rated 50 Amp.

Cheers,
Jim

On Jan 20, 10:55*am, "Jim2009" wrote:
....
All the wires are 10 gauge (from the main to the add-on and to the dryer)..
The add-on box is rated 30 Amp, and the outlet is rated 50 Amp.
....
Yes, I figured as much. _Sizing_ of the equipment/wiring isn't the
problem and this subthread has nothing to do w/ your problem or its
root cause.

I simply wanted to correct a misconception that somehow a resistance
point somewhere else would be the cause of heating to show up removed
from that location--just doesn't work that way because the heat comes
from I^2 R losses and is generated at the location of the "R" thru
which the "I" passes whether that is localized in a (faulty)
connection or distributed in the case of a wire.

--

On Jan 20, 10:48*am, "Jim2009" wrote:
....
The picture is most confusing! If some thing's getting hot it sounds
like either bad connections. Or, another suggestion; has one of the
heating element inside the dryer broken or sagged and made contact
with the metal frame of the dryer (presumably grounded?). Thus causing
additional current to flow, via ground and thereby possibly by passing
some of the safety (e.g. over heat) switches inside the dryer which
are in the 230 volt circuit.
....

If the heating element touched ground it would short and burn
immediately.

It's easy enough to test the elements if you can access the
connections from the top w/o pulling the drum; simply measure
continuity between them (w/ the dryer unplugged, of course).
Typically there are three connections in series so the two elements
can be operated in "low" and "hi" mode -- high is from one end of the
one to the other end of the second while low is from mid-point to low
end where the two elements are connected (that's the GE/Hotpoint
arrangement I'm familiar with, anyway. Whether some of the other
brands use two parallel independent elements or other arrangement I
can't say; never had anything else).

It's quite simple w/ the GE style to pull the front and the drum to
inspect the elements visually.

--

wrote in message
...
On Jan 20, 1:20 am, "Jim2009" wrote:
Dryer Box; I took apart the fuse holders and cleaned all contact points
(including the fuses) with emery cloth and then with water. One screw
assembles each fuse holder locking the holder (threads) and the wire
connection bar in place.

I found a corroded connection on one gate/post (when you flip the level on
the box). It was on the heater side. It was not to bad, looked like a bit
of the copper in the gate had transferred to the post which is more like
silver. I also squeezed the gate prongs together to tighten the fit.

I found a major problem inside the outlet box after removing the cover,
one
side of one of the female prongs was broken. The male side prong (cord
side) had some heat damage. I cleaned up the prongs on the cord. Replaced
the dryer outlet with a new one. Hooked everything back up, ran the dryer
on high heat without clothes for 30 mins, check the fuses - both were just
slightly warm, nothing at all like before.

Washed a load, put them in the dryer, opened a beer. Checked the fuses
about 20 mins into the load, heater side was hot again! (as it was in the
beginning) But the motor side is now just slightly warm! I removed the
fuse from the heater side and found some small arc points on the fuse tip
and the screw head it contacts. I tightened the screw a bit, took the 30A
fuse from the motor side and stuck it in the heater side, put a new 15A in
the motor side. (I'm out of 30's, will get new ones tomorrow). I ran the
dryer for another 10 mins, checked fuses - both just slightly warm. (Maybe
it was not long enough for it to get hot, will run longer tomorrow.)

I may tighten the screw inside the fuse holder a bit more, I didn't want
to
over do it.

Anyone have an idea how many Amps each side (heater/motor) should draw? I
think I need to replace the box, but I would like to make sure the dryer
is
not the problem.


I'm not an expert in dryers, but I don't think there is one side for
the heater and one side for the motor. I would expect the heater
current flows through both legs, providing the heater with 240V. The
motor could be 120 and if so, would flow through one leg.

If it were me, I'd replace that box with a breaker as suggested. I
would not trust it, regardless of what else you find. And while I was
at it, since the main fuse panel is apparently located in a similar
environment and by all indications is likely even older, I'd get that
replaced by a new breaker panel too.

What you say could be true. I know if I remove the fuse #1 the dryer stops,
if I remove fuse #2 the dryer continues to run.

I agree I should replace the fuse box with a breaker box. I want to fix the
problem with the dryer first (if found) and then I will replace the box
reguardless. I don't want to replace the box first only to find the that
dryer damages the breakers.

Cheers,
Jim

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
Jim2009 wrote:

How about this Meter for checking the Amps? Cen-tech Digital Clamp
Meter at
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=96308
or this one
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=98675

So here's my plan.
1) Buy a new meter, check Amps for both sides, if normal replace
fuse box. If not normal, then back to the dryer.......


I've got the $10.00 one. Seems sufficient for checking loads.


Thanks, I'll get one today.

Cheers,
Jim

wrote:
On Jan 20, 1:20 am, "Jim2009" wrote:

Dryer Box; I took apart the fuse holders and cleaned all contact points
(including the fuses) with emery cloth and then with water. One screw
assembles each fuse holder locking the holder (threads) and the wire
connection bar in place.

I found a corroded connection on one gate/post (when you flip the level on
the box). It was on the heater side. It was not to bad, looked like a bit
of the copper in the gate had transferred to the post which is more like
silver. I also squeezed the gate prongs together to tighten the fit.

I found a major problem inside the outlet box after removing the cover, one
side of one of the female prongs was broken. The male side prong (cord
side) had some heat damage. I cleaned up the prongs on the cord. Replaced
the dryer outlet with a new one. Hooked everything back up, ran the dryer
on high heat without clothes for 30 mins, check the fuses - both were just
slightly warm, nothing at all like before.

Washed a load, put them in the dryer, opened a beer. Checked the fuses
about 20 mins into the load, heater side was hot again! (as it was in the
beginning) But the motor side is now just slightly warm! I removed the
fuse from the heater side and found some small arc points on the fuse tip
and the screw head it contacts. I tightened the screw a bit, took the 30A
fuse from the motor side and stuck it in the heater side, put a new 15A in
the motor side. (I'm out of 30's, will get new ones tomorrow). I ran the
dryer for another 10 mins, checked fuses - both just slightly warm. (Maybe
it was not long enough for it to get hot, will run longer tomorrow.)

I may tighten the screw inside the fuse holder a bit more, I didn't want to
over do it.

Anyone have an idea how many Amps each side (heater/motor) should draw? I
think I need to replace the box, but I would like to make sure the dryer is
not the problem.



I'm not an expert in dryers, but I don't think there is one side for
the heater and one side for the motor. I would expect the heater
current flows through both legs, providing the heater with 240V. The
motor could be 120 and if so, would flow through one leg.

If it were me, I'd replace that box with a breaker as suggested. I
would not trust it, regardless of what else you find. And while I was
at it, since the main fuse panel is apparently located in a similar
environment and by all indications is likely even older, I'd get that
replaced by a new breaker panel too.


I agree with that, I've never seen a normal sized electric dryer here in
the US of A which didn't have the heaters powered with 240 volts using
both legs of the feed circuit.

That said, I'm a little suprised that the 15 amp fuse the OP said he put
in "the motor side" didn't blow.

At this point I'll allign with the folks who have told you to junk that
Dryer Fuse Box and install a breaker box.

For several years I had ongoing problems with a fused disconnect switch
supplying 240 volts to the supplementary resistance heaters in one of
our home's heat pump air handlers. The switch contacts would oxidize,
start heating up and raise the temperature of the end cap of its
adjacent cartridge fuse to the point where the fuse link would melt or
sometimes the solder jointing the fuse link to the end cap melted and
disconnected it.

That fused disconnect and air handler are in our attic, which is
definitely not a "moisture laden" area.

Cleaning and "tightening" the switch contacts would only solve the
problem for a few winter months before it recurred.

I gave up and replaced the entire fused disconnect with an identical one
and a couple of years later the same damn thing started happpening.

I (think) I finally put the problem to bed by replacing that fused
disconnect with an unfused "pull out" disconnect about 5 years ago.
There was no need for fuses there anyway, because the line feeding that
disconnect is protected by breakers at its feed end, the disconnect is
just a code required safety feature to protect service techs.

Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.


How about this Meter for checking the Amps? Cen-tech Digital Clamp Meter athttp://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=96308
or this onehttp://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=98675

So here's my plan.
1) Buy a new meter, check Amps for both sides, if normal replace fuse box.
If not normal, then back to the dryer.......

Cheers,
Jim