On Jan 20, 1:20*am, "Jim2009" wrote:
So here's my plan.
1) *Buy a new meter, check Amps for both sides, if normal replace fuse box.
If not normal, then back to the dryer.......

You've pretty much determined that the problem is in the fuse box.
Just replace it with a breaker and be done with it.

On Jan 20, 11:24*am, "Jim2009" wrote:
....
... I know if I remove the fuse #1 the dryer stops,
if I remove fuse #2 the dryer continues to run.

That simply indicates fuse #1 is the hot side for the motor. Either
way the heating elements won't as they run on the 240V, from one hot
to the other.

....
... I don't want to replace the box first only to find the that
dryer damages the breakers.

The load even if faulty won't damage the breakers -- if it draws
excess current (like a short) they'll simply open as intended; if it
doesn't, they won't.

The current heating issue in the fuse box is a problem w/ the fuse box
itself. If it were mine I'd remove it completely and see if it
appeared to be able to be refurbished adequately or damaged/aged to
the point of needing replacing rather than repairing. In place
mounted on the wall still it's unlikely can inspect it closely enough
to really tell or do any good particularly if the problem is as noted
earlier from moisture corrosion or similar.

--

On Jan 20, 12:24*pm, "Jim2009" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Jan 20, 1:20 am, "Jim2009" wrote:





Dryer Box; I took apart the fuse holders and cleaned all contact points
(including the fuses) with emery cloth and then with water. One screw
assembles each fuse holder locking the holder (threads) and the wire
connection bar in place.

I found a corroded connection on one gate/post (when you flip the level on
the box). It was on the heater side. It was not to bad, looked like a bit
of the copper in the gate had transferred to the post which is more like
silver. I also squeezed the gate prongs together to tighten the fit.

I found a major problem inside the outlet box after removing the cover,
one
side of one of the female prongs was broken. The male side prong (cord
side) had some heat damage. I cleaned up the prongs on the cord. Replaced
the dryer outlet with a new one. Hooked everything back up, ran the dryer
on high heat without clothes for 30 mins, check the fuses - both were just
slightly warm, nothing at all like before.

Washed a load, put them in the dryer, opened a beer. Checked the fuses
about 20 mins into the load, heater side was hot again! (as it was in the
beginning) But the motor side is now just slightly warm! I removed the
fuse from the heater side and found some small arc points on the fuse tip
and the screw head it contacts. I tightened the screw a bit, took the 30A
fuse from the motor side and stuck it in the heater side, put a new 15A in
the motor side. (I'm out of 30's, will get new ones tomorrow). I ran the
dryer for another 10 mins, checked fuses - both just slightly warm. (Maybe
it was not long enough for it to get hot, will run longer tomorrow.)

I may tighten the screw inside the fuse holder a bit more, I didn't want
to
over do it.

Anyone have an idea how many Amps each side (heater/motor) should draw? I
think I need to replace the box, but I would like to make sure the dryer
is
not the problem.

I'm not an expert in dryers, but I don't think there is one side for
the heater and one side for the motor. * I would expect the heater
current flows through both legs, providing the heater with 240V. * The
motor could be 120 and if so, would flow through one leg.

If it were me, I'd replace that box with a breaker as suggested. *I
would not trust it, regardless of what else you find. *And while I was
at it, since the main fuse panel is apparently located in a similar
environment and by all indications is likely even older, *I'd get that
replaced by a new breaker panel too.

What you say could be true. *I know if I remove the fuse #1 the dryer stops,
if I remove fuse #2 the dryer continues to run.

I agree I should replace the fuse box with a breaker box. *I want to fix the
problem with the dryer first (if found) and then I will replace the box
reguardless. *I don't want to replace the box first only to find the that
dryer damages the breakers.

Cheers,
Jim

Since the 30A fuses are *not* blowing, I suspect that the heat is a
problem within the fuse panel itself (high resistance connection)
checking the current draw of the dryer should confirm this.

nate

dpb wrote:
On Jan 20, 11:24 am, "Jim2009" wrote:
...
... I know if I remove the fuse #1 the dryer stops,
if I remove fuse #2 the dryer continues to run.

That simply indicates fuse #1 is the hot side for the motor. Either
way the heating elements won't as they run on the 240V, from one hot
to the other.

...
... I don't want to replace the box first only to find the that
dryer damages the breakers.

The load even if faulty won't damage the breakers -- if it draws
excess current (like a short) they'll simply open as intended; if it
doesn't, they won't.

The same can be said for fuses. If carrying their max load they will get
hot. With a little more load they will get hot enough inside to melt
metal. As I think someone said, fuses deterioration will not allow more
than the rated current. The heating could be "normal".

The dryer nameplate should have a current rating. (Max load for fuses
and circuit breakers is 80% = 24A for a continuous load - over 3 hours.)

The current heating issue in the fuse box is a problem w/ the fuse box
itself. If it were mine I'd remove it completely and see if it
appeared to be able to be refurbished adequately or damaged/aged to
the point of needing replacing rather than repairing. In place
mounted on the wall still it's unlikely can inspect it closely enough
to really tell or do any good particularly if the problem is as noted
earlier from moisture corrosion or similar.

Could also be a problem with resistance in a connection. If it adds a
lot of heat to the fuses and the fuses are loaded near their rating they
will blow "early".

--
bud--

On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 14:48:53 -0600, bud--
wrote:

dpb wrote:
On Jan 20, 11:24 am, "Jim2009" wrote:
...
... I know if I remove the fuse #1 the dryer stops,
if I remove fuse #2 the dryer continues to run.

That simply indicates fuse #1 is the hot side for the motor. Either
way the heating elements won't as they run on the 240V, from one hot
to the other.

...
... I don't want to replace the box first only to find the that
dryer damages the breakers.

The load even if faulty won't damage the breakers -- if it draws
excess current (like a short) they'll simply open as intended; if it
doesn't, they won't.

The same can be said for fuses. If carrying their max load they will get
hot. With a little more load they will get hot enough inside to melt
metal. As I think someone said, fuses deterioration will not allow more
than the rated current. The heating could be "normal".

The dryer nameplate should have a current rating. (Max load for fuses
and circuit breakers is 80% = 24A for a continuous load - over 3 hours.)

The current heating issue in the fuse box is a problem w/ the fuse box
itself. If it were mine I'd remove it completely and see if it
appeared to be able to be refurbished adequately or damaged/aged to
the point of needing replacing rather than repairing. In place
mounted on the wall still it's unlikely can inspect it closely enough
to really tell or do any good particularly if the problem is as noted
earlier from moisture corrosion or similar.

Could also be a problem with resistance in a connection. If it adds a
lot of heat to the fuses and the fuses are loaded near their rating they
will blow "early".


Call me a "luddite" but I'll trust a fuse over a breaker for
"durability"
A fuse has NO moving parts - no pressure contacts or wiping contacts.
Every time a fuse blows it is replaced with a new one. Every time a
breaker is tripped under load, whether intentionally or due to a fault
(overload or short) the breaker deteriorates.
Just be sure a fuse is always properly installed, and a bit of
dialectric compound on the threads and tip never hurts - prevents
corrosion.
Breakers are more convenient - but not necessarily better (unless you
have Mag-trip breakers, which are MUCH more accurate than fuses.

wrote:


Call me a "luddite" but I'll trust a fuse over a breaker for
"durability"
A fuse has NO moving parts - no pressure contacts or wiping contacts.
Every time a fuse blows it is replaced with a new one. Every time a
breaker is tripped under load, whether intentionally or due to a fault
(overload or short) the breaker deteriorates.
Just be sure a fuse is always properly installed, and a bit of
dialectric compound on the threads and tip never hurts - prevents
corrosion.
Breakers are more convenient - but not necessarily better (unless you
have Mag-trip breakers, which are MUCH more accurate than fuses.

Luddite.

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:
On Jan 20, 1:20 am, "Jim2009" wrote:

Dryer Box; I took apart the fuse holders and cleaned all contact points
(including the fuses) with emery cloth and then with water. One screw
assembles each fuse holder locking the holder (threads) and the wire
connection bar in place.

I found a corroded connection on one gate/post (when you flip the level
on
the box). It was on the heater side. It was not to bad, looked like a
bit
of the copper in the gate had transferred to the post which is more like
silver. I also squeezed the gate prongs together to tighten the fit.

I found a major problem inside the outlet box after removing the cover,
one
side of one of the female prongs was broken. The male side prong (cord
side) had some heat damage. I cleaned up the prongs on the cord.
Replaced
the dryer outlet with a new one. Hooked everything back up, ran the
dryer
on high heat without clothes for 30 mins, check the fuses - both were
just
slightly warm, nothing at all like before.

Washed a load, put them in the dryer, opened a beer. Checked the fuses
about 20 mins into the load, heater side was hot again! (as it was in
the
beginning) But the motor side is now just slightly warm! I removed the
fuse from the heater side and found some small arc points on the fuse tip
and the screw head it contacts. I tightened the screw a bit, took the
30A
fuse from the motor side and stuck it in the heater side, put a new 15A
in
the motor side. (I'm out of 30's, will get new ones tomorrow). I ran
the
dryer for another 10 mins, checked fuses - both just slightly warm.
(Maybe
it was not long enough for it to get hot, will run longer tomorrow.)

I may tighten the screw inside the fuse holder a bit more, I didn't want
to
over do it.

Anyone have an idea how many Amps each side (heater/motor) should draw?
I
think I need to replace the box, but I would like to make sure the dryer
is
not the problem.



I'm not an expert in dryers, but I don't think there is one side for
the heater and one side for the motor. I would expect the heater
current flows through both legs, providing the heater with 240V. The
motor could be 120 and if so, would flow through one leg.

If it were me, I'd replace that box with a breaker as suggested. I
would not trust it, regardless of what else you find. And while I was
at it, since the main fuse panel is apparently located in a similar
environment and by all indications is likely even older, I'd get that
replaced by a new breaker panel too.


I agree with that, I've never seen a normal sized electric dryer here in
the US of A which didn't have the heaters powered with 240 volts using
both legs of the feed circuit.

That said, I'm a little suprised that the 15 amp fuse the OP said he put
in "the motor side" didn't blow.

Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.


Yeah I was expecting the 15 to blow too, I ran the unit for about 10 mins.
I got a tester today and that line tests around 21 amps. It was a TimeDelay
fuse, but I don't think it should delay that long. :-)

Cheers,
Jim

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:

That said, I'm a little suprised that the 15 amp fuse the OP said he put
in "the motor side" didn't blow.

Jeff
--

Yeah, it's was a 15 AMP Time Delay fuse and I ran the unit for maybe 10
mins. I bought a Clamp On Amp tester today and that line tests just about
21 amps.

Cheers,
Jim

"bud--" wrote in message
...
dpb wrote:
On Jan 20, 11:24 am, "Jim2009" wrote:
...
... I know if I remove the fuse #1 the dryer stops,
if I remove fuse #2 the dryer continues to run.

That simply indicates fuse #1 is the hot side for the motor. Either
way the heating elements won't as they run on the 240V, from one hot
to the other.

...
... I don't want to replace the box first only to find the that
dryer damages the breakers.

The load even if faulty won't damage the breakers -- if it draws
excess current (like a short) they'll simply open as intended; if it
doesn't, they won't.

The same can be said for fuses. If carrying their max load they will get
hot. With a little more load they will get hot enough inside to melt
metal. As I think someone said, fuses deterioration will not allow more
than the rated current. The heating could be "normal".

The dryer nameplate should have a current rating. (Max load for fuses and
circuit breakers is 80% = 24A for a continuous load - over 3 hours.)

--
bud--

OK, name plate reads "Motor 4 Amps - Heater and Accessories 23 Amps".

Thanks,
Jim

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:
On Jan 20, 1:20 am, "Jim2009" wrote:

Dryer Box; I took apart the fuse holders and cleaned all contact points
(including the fuses) with emery cloth and then with water. One screw
assembles each fuse holder locking the holder (threads) and the wire
connection bar in place.

I found a corroded connection on one gate/post (when you flip the level
on
the box). It was on the heater side. It was not to bad, looked like a
bit
of the copper in the gate had transferred to the post which is more like
silver. I also squeezed the gate prongs together to tighten the fit.

I found a major problem inside the outlet box after removing the cover,
one
side of one of the female prongs was broken. The male side prong (cord
side) had some heat damage. I cleaned up the prongs on the cord.
Replaced
the dryer outlet with a new one. Hooked everything back up, ran the
dryer
on high heat without clothes for 30 mins, check the fuses - both were
just
slightly warm, nothing at all like before.

Washed a load, put them in the dryer, opened a beer. Checked the fuses
about 20 mins into the load, heater side was hot again! (as it was in
the
beginning) But the motor side is now just slightly warm! I removed the
fuse from the heater side and found some small arc points on the fuse tip
and the screw head it contacts. I tightened the screw a bit, took the
30A
fuse from the motor side and stuck it in the heater side, put a new 15A
in
the motor side. (I'm out of 30's, will get new ones tomorrow). I ran
the
dryer for another 10 mins, checked fuses - both just slightly warm.
(Maybe
it was not long enough for it to get hot, will run longer tomorrow.)

I may tighten the screw inside the fuse holder a bit more, I didn't want
to
over do it.

Anyone have an idea how many Amps each side (heater/motor) should draw?
I
think I need to replace the box, but I would like to make sure the dryer
is
not the problem.



I'm not an expert in dryers, but I don't think there is one side for
the heater and one side for the motor. I would expect the heater
current flows through both legs, providing the heater with 240V. The
motor could be 120 and if so, would flow through one leg.

If it were me, I'd replace that box with a breaker as suggested. I
would not trust it, regardless of what else you find. And while I was
at it, since the main fuse panel is apparently located in a similar
environment and by all indications is likely even older, I'd get that
replaced by a new breaker panel too.


I agree with that, I've never seen a normal sized electric dryer here in
the US of A which didn't have the heaters powered with 240 volts using
both legs of the feed circuit.

That said, I'm a little suprised that the 15 amp fuse the OP said he put
in "the motor side" didn't blow.

At this point I'll allign with the folks who have told you to junk that
Dryer Fuse Box and install a breaker box.

For several years I had ongoing problems with a fused disconnect switch
supplying 240 volts to the supplementary resistance heaters in one of our
home's heat pump air handlers. The switch contacts would oxidize, start
heating up and raise the temperature of the end cap of its adjacent
cartridge fuse to the point where the fuse link would melt or sometimes
the solder jointing the fuse link to the end cap melted and disconnected
it.

That fused disconnect and air handler are in our attic, which is
definitely not a "moisture laden" area.

Cleaning and "tightening" the switch contacts would only solve the problem
for a few winter months before it recurred.

I gave up and replaced the entire fused disconnect with an identical one
and a couple of years later the same damn thing started happpening.

I (think) I finally put the problem to bed by replacing that fused
disconnect with an unfused "pull out" disconnect about 5 years ago. There
was no need for fuses there anyway, because the line feeding that
disconnect is protected by breakers at its feed end, the disconnect is
just a code required safety feature to protect service techs.

Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.



Well, I got a new Clamp Amp Meter, at Home Depot $50. Harbor Freight was
out of the cheap ones even after I called to confirm their stock.

I tightened the screws (the screw under the head of each fuse) in the fuse
holders and installed two new 30A fuses. I believe these screws came loose
from the hot and cold cycles. It's a ground level room that's not heated.
I did two loads tonight and they never got hot, just a very slight temp
increase.

The name plate reads "Motor 4 Amps - Heater and Accessories 23 Amps".

I tested both lines, before and after the fuse, and at the dryer outlet and
found no difference per side.

-Cold start Dryer running on AIR cycle, the Motor side tested at = 21.73A,
the Other side (I call it the heater side) tested at = 3.71A.

-Dryer warm running on low/med/or high heat. Motor side = 21.5 +-.3, the
Other side was slightly higher = 23.6 +-.3. I took several readings over a
40-50 min period, all about the same per side.

So I think the Dryer is safe.. Right? But I still wonder why one prong in
the outlet was fried. Maybe the wire was loose? I didn't pay attention
when I replaced the outlet. Maybe I damaged it when cleaning the exhaust
vent (about twice a year), I have to unplug the dryer to move it.

I will pickup a breaker box and replace the fuse box. I had two in my hand
today at HD, it holds just two breakers, just what I need. They only had
two of these in stock and after opening both boxes they both had parts
missing. I could have completed one box by using parts from the other, but
instead I took them both up to CS. I'm only about 15 mins from another HD.

Thanks to everyone that contributed to this post, I appreciate it

Cheers,
Jim

Jim2009 wrote:
"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
. ..

wrote:

On Jan 20, 1:20 am, "Jim2009" wrote:


Dryer Box; I took apart the fuse holders and cleaned all contact points
(including the fuses) with emery cloth and then with water. One screw
assembles each fuse holder locking the holder (threads) and the wire
connection bar in place.

I found a corroded connection on one gate/post (when you flip the level
on
the box). It was on the heater side. It was not to bad, looked like a
bit
of the copper in the gate had transferred to the post which is more like
silver. I also squeezed the gate prongs together to tighten the fit.

I found a major problem inside the outlet box after removing the cover,
one
side of one of the female prongs was broken. The male side prong (cord
side) had some heat damage. I cleaned up the prongs on the cord.
Replaced
the dryer outlet with a new one. Hooked everything back up, ran the
dryer
on high heat without clothes for 30 mins, check the fuses - both were
just
slightly warm, nothing at all like before.

Washed a load, put them in the dryer, opened a beer. Checked the fuses
about 20 mins into the load, heater side was hot again! (as it was in
the
beginning) But the motor side is now just slightly warm! I removed the
fuse from the heater side and found some small arc points on the fuse tip
and the screw head it contacts. I tightened the screw a bit, took the
30A
fuse from the motor side and stuck it in the heater side, put a new 15A
in
the motor side. (I'm out of 30's, will get new ones tomorrow). I ran
the
dryer for another 10 mins, checked fuses - both just slightly warm.
(Maybe
it was not long enough for it to get hot, will run longer tomorrow.)

I may tighten the screw inside the fuse holder a bit more, I didn't want
to
over do it.

Anyone have an idea how many Amps each side (heater/motor) should draw?
I
think I need to replace the box, but I would like to make sure the dryer
is
not the problem.



I'm not an expert in dryers, but I don't think there is one side for
the heater and one side for the motor. I would expect the heater
current flows through both legs, providing the heater with 240V. The
motor could be 120 and if so, would flow through one leg.

If it were me, I'd replace that box with a breaker as suggested. I
would not trust it, regardless of what else you find. And while I was
at it, since the main fuse panel is apparently located in a similar
environment and by all indications is likely even older, I'd get that
replaced by a new breaker panel too.


I agree with that, I've never seen a normal sized electric dryer here in
the US of A which didn't have the heaters powered with 240 volts using
both legs of the feed circuit.

That said, I'm a little suprised that the 15 amp fuse the OP said he put
in "the motor side" didn't blow.

At this point I'll allign with the folks who have told you to junk that
Dryer Fuse Box and install a breaker box.

For several years I had ongoing problems with a fused disconnect switch
supplying 240 volts to the supplementary resistance heaters in one of our
home's heat pump air handlers. The switch contacts would oxidize, start
heating up and raise the temperature of the end cap of its adjacent
cartridge fuse to the point where the fuse link would melt or sometimes
the solder jointing the fuse link to the end cap melted and disconnected
it.

That fused disconnect and air handler are in our attic, which is
definitely not a "moisture laden" area.

Cleaning and "tightening" the switch contacts would only solve the problem
for a few winter months before it recurred.

I gave up and replaced the entire fused disconnect with an identical one
and a couple of years later the same damn thing started happpening.

I (think) I finally put the problem to bed by replacing that fused
disconnect with an unfused "pull out" disconnect about 5 years ago. There
was no need for fuses there anyway, because the line feeding that
disconnect is protected by breakers at its feed end, the disconnect is
just a code required safety feature to protect service techs.

Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.




Well, I got a new Clamp Amp Meter, at Home Depot $50. Harbor Freight was
out of the cheap ones even after I called to confirm their stock.

I tightened the screws (the screw under the head of each fuse) in the fuse
holders and installed two new 30A fuses. I believe these screws came loose
from the hot and cold cycles. It's a ground level room that's not heated.
I did two loads tonight and they never got hot, just a very slight temp
increase.

The name plate reads "Motor 4 Amps - Heater and Accessories 23 Amps".

I tested both lines, before and after the fuse, and at the dryer outlet and
found no difference per side.

-Cold start Dryer running on AIR cycle, the Motor side tested at = 21.73A,
the Other side (I call it the heater side) tested at = 3.71A.

-Dryer warm running on low/med/or high heat. Motor side = 21.5 +-.3, the
Other side was slightly higher = 23.6 +-.3. I took several readings over a
40-50 min period, all about the same per side.

So I think the Dryer is safe.. Right? But I still wonder why one prong in
the outlet was fried. Maybe the wire was loose? I didn't pay attention
when I replaced the outlet. Maybe I damaged it when cleaning the exhaust
vent (about twice a year), I have to unplug the dryer to move it.

I will pickup a breaker box and replace the fuse box. I had two in my hand
today at HD, it holds just two breakers, just what I need. They only had
two of these in stock and after opening both boxes they both had parts
missing. I could have completed one box by using parts from the other, but
instead I took them both up to CS. I'm only about 15 mins from another HD.

Thanks to everyone that contributed to this post, I appreciate it

Cheers,
Jim



I'd expect that rather than using two breakers it'd be safer to use a
"double pole" 30 amp breaker, like this one:

http://tinyurl.com/axxud3

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

Jeff Wisnia wrote:


I'd expect that rather than using two breakers it'd be safer to use a
"double pole" 30 amp breaker, like this one:

http://tinyurl.com/axxud3

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.


No, you're correct. Either the breaker shown or a pair of "ganged" breakers.

I'd expect that rather than using two breakers it'd be safer to use a
"double pole" 30 amp breaker, like this one:

http://tinyurl.com/axxud3

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

Good point...... I seen those, but I was leaning towards buying two singles
since it was a few bucks cheaper. I didn't think about the benefits of the
common trip. Doh!

Thanks,
Jim

On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 10:46:14 -0500, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:


I'd expect that rather than using two breakers it'd be safer to use a
"double pole" 30 amp breaker, like this one:

http://tinyurl.com/axxud3

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.

Jeff
BY LAW that is the only kind of breaker he can use - it must be
impossible to shut down or trip one side without shutting down or
tripping the other side. (so either DP breaker, or mechanically tied
trip levers)

Jim2009 wrote:
"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:
On Jan 20, 1:20 am, "Jim2009" wrote:

Dryer Box; I took apart the fuse holders and cleaned all contact points
(including the fuses) with emery cloth and then with water. One screw
assembles each fuse holder locking the holder (threads) and the wire
connection bar in place.

I found a corroded connection on one gate/post (when you flip the level
on
the box). It was on the heater side. It was not to bad, looked like a
bit
of the copper in the gate had transferred to the post which is more like
silver. I also squeezed the gate prongs together to tighten the fit.

I found a major problem inside the outlet box after removing the cover,
one
side of one of the female prongs was broken. The male side prong (cord
side) had some heat damage. I cleaned up the prongs on the cord.
Replaced
the dryer outlet with a new one. Hooked everything back up, ran the
dryer
on high heat without clothes for 30 mins, check the fuses - both were
just
slightly warm, nothing at all like before.

Washed a load, put them in the dryer, opened a beer. Checked the fuses
about 20 mins into the load, heater side was hot again! (as it was in
the
beginning) But the motor side is now just slightly warm! I removed the
fuse from the heater side and found some small arc points on the fuse tip
and the screw head it contacts. I tightened the screw a bit, took the
30A
fuse from the motor side and stuck it in the heater side, put a new 15A
in
the motor side. (I'm out of 30's, will get new ones tomorrow). I ran
the
dryer for another 10 mins, checked fuses - both just slightly warm.
(Maybe
it was not long enough for it to get hot, will run longer tomorrow.)

If the load on the 15A fuse was 21A (from measurements below) the fuse
should blow. Time depends on type of fuse. For a 15A SquareD breaker the
trip time would be 25-125 seconds. If you actually had 21A through a 15A
fuse the holder could be shorted from the center contact to the screw
shell. Unscrewing the fuse should kill the heat or the whole dryer
(depending on which).


I may tighten the screw inside the fuse holder a bit more, I didn't want
to
over do it.

Anyone have an idea how many Amps each side (heater/motor) should draw?
I
think I need to replace the box, but I would like to make sure the dryer
is
not the problem.


I'm not an expert in dryers, but I don't think there is one side for
the heater and one side for the motor. I would expect the heater
current flows through both legs, providing the heater with 240V. The
motor could be 120 and if so, would flow through one leg.

If it were me, I'd replace that box with a breaker as suggested. I
would not trust it, regardless of what else you find. And while I was
at it, since the main fuse panel is apparently located in a similar
environment and by all indications is likely even older, I'd get that
replaced by a new breaker panel too.

I agree with that, I've never seen a normal sized electric dryer here in
the US of A which didn't have the heaters powered with 240 volts using
both legs of the feed circuit.

That said, I'm a little suprised that the 15 amp fuse the OP said he put
in "the motor side" didn't blow.

At this point I'll allign with the folks who have told you to junk that
Dryer Fuse Box and install a breaker box.

For several years I had ongoing problems with a fused disconnect switch
supplying 240 volts to the supplementary resistance heaters in one of our
home's heat pump air handlers. The switch contacts would oxidize, start
heating up and raise the temperature of the end cap of its adjacent
cartridge fuse to the point where the fuse link would melt or sometimes
the solder jointing the fuse link to the end cap melted and disconnected
it.

That fused disconnect and air handler are in our attic, which is
definitely not a "moisture laden" area.

Cleaning and "tightening" the switch contacts would only solve the problem
for a few winter months before it recurred.

I gave up and replaced the entire fused disconnect with an identical one
and a couple of years later the same damn thing started happpening.

I (think) I finally put the problem to bed by replacing that fused
disconnect with an unfused "pull out" disconnect about 5 years ago. There
was no need for fuses there anyway, because the line feeding that
disconnect is protected by breakers at its feed end, the disconnect is
just a code required safety feature to protect service techs.

Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.



Well, I got a new Clamp Amp Meter, at Home Depot $50. Harbor Freight was
out of the cheap ones even after I called to confirm their stock.

I tightened the screws (the screw under the head of each fuse) in the fuse
holders and installed two new 30A fuses. I believe these screws came loose
from the hot and cold cycles. It's a ground level room that's not heated.
I did two loads tonight and they never got hot, just a very slight temp
increase.

If they stay cool you might have fixed it (or as noted above).

The name plate reads "Motor 4 Amps - Heater and Accessories 23 Amps".

I tested both lines, before and after the fuse, and at the dryer outlet and
found no difference per side.

-Cold start Dryer running on AIR cycle, the Motor side tested at = 21.73A,
the Other side (I call it the heater side) tested at = 3.71A.

Don't know as how those make sense. If the heater ran on 120V it would
draw a lot less than 21A. Presumably the heater is not running on "air
cycle". If the meter sets the range automatically you may be reading the
decimal point wrong, like 21 mA. 3.71A is reasonable for the motor.

-Dryer warm running on low/med/or high heat. Motor side = 21.5 +-.3, the
Other side was slightly higher = 23.6 +-.3. I took several readings over a
40-50 min period, all about the same per side.

Heater appears on both fuses and is 21.5A approx. compared to the
nameplate of 23A

Motor appears on only one wire (should be "other side")and is 23.6 -
21.5 = 2.1A approx. compared to the nameplate of 4A. Should increase
with more load in the dryer, or wet load.

So I think the Dryer is safe.. Right? But I still wonder why one prong in
the outlet was fried. Maybe the wire was loose? I didn't pay attention
when I replaced the outlet. Maybe I damaged it when cleaning the exhaust
vent (about twice a year), I have to unplug the dryer to move it.

I will pickup a breaker box and replace the fuse box. I had two in my hand
today at HD, it holds just two breakers, just what I need. They only had
two of these in stock and after opening both boxes they both had parts
missing. I could have completed one box by using parts from the other, but
instead I took them both up to CS. I'm only about 15 mins from another HD.

Thanks to everyone that contributed to this post, I appreciate it

Cheers,
Jim

wrote:

Call me a "luddite" but I'll trust a fuse over a breaker for
"durability"
A fuse has NO moving parts - no pressure contacts or wiping contacts.
Every time a fuse blows it is replaced with a new one. Every time a
breaker is tripped under load, whether intentionally or due to a fault
(overload or short) the breaker deteriorates.

I agree. A 20A fuse after 20 years should have the same characteristics
as when new. A 20A breaker could freeze mechanically. Would be
interesting to look at the trip points of old breakers. I think someone
was going to run tests on old houses.

In applications with high available fault currents, fuses with high
fault current ratings are readily and cheaply available.

Just be sure a fuse is always properly installed, and a bit of
dialectric compound on the threads and tip never hurts - prevents
corrosion.
Breakers are more convenient - but not necessarily better (unless you
have Mag-trip breakers, which are MUCH more accurate than fuses.

Hard to argue with the convenience.

--
bud--

Jim2009 wrote:


Well, I got a new Clamp Amp Meter, at Home Depot $50. Harbor Freight
was out of the cheap ones even after I called to confirm their stock.


Bummer. But they'll be back in stock eventually. When the are, get the $10
model and compare readings with the $50 unit.

You can then make a determination as to which represents the best value and
return the other.

On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:34:04 -0600, bud--
wrote:

wrote:

Call me a "luddite" but I'll trust a fuse over a breaker for
"durability"
A fuse has NO moving parts - no pressure contacts or wiping contacts.
Every time a fuse blows it is replaced with a new one. Every time a
breaker is tripped under load, whether intentionally or due to a fault
(overload or short) the breaker deteriorates.

I agree. A 20A fuse after 20 years should have the same characteristics
as when new. A 20A breaker could freeze mechanically. Would be
interesting to look at the trip points of old breakers. I think someone
was going to run tests on old houses.


Mechanical freezing is extremely rare, while false tripping due to
resistance heating of the contacts is quite common - more common on
some makes than others.

In applications with high available fault currents, fuses with high
fault current ratings are readily and cheaply available.

Just be sure a fuse is always properly installed, and a bit of
dialectric compound on the threads and tip never hurts - prevents
corrosion.
Breakers are more convenient - but not necessarily better (unless you
have Mag-trip breakers, which are MUCH more accurate than fuses.

Hard to argue with the convenience.

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:34:04 -0600, bud--
wrote:

wrote:

Call me a "luddite" but I'll trust a fuse over a breaker for
"durability"
A fuse has NO moving parts - no pressure contacts or wiping contacts.
Every time a fuse blows it is replaced with a new one. Every time a
breaker is tripped under load, whether intentionally or due to a fault
(overload or short) the breaker deteriorates.

I agree. A 20A fuse after 20 years should have the same characteristics
as when new. A 20A breaker could freeze mechanically. Would be
interesting to look at the trip points of old breakers. I think someone
was going to run tests on old houses.


Mechanical freezing is extremely rare, while false tripping due to
resistance heating of the contacts is quite common - more common on
some makes than others.


This is probably old news around here, but I though it's related to this
post.

134 Field reports of Federal Pacific Electric FPE Stab-lok electrical
equipment failures, 2003-2005
at http://www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/fpefield.htm

Here is a few no-trips with photos http://www.inspect-ny.com/fpe/fpefire.htm

Cheers,
Jim

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
Jim2009 wrote:


Well, I got a new Clamp Amp Meter, at Home Depot $50. Harbor Freight
was out of the cheap ones even after I called to confirm their stock.


Bummer. But they'll be back in stock eventually. When the are, get the $10
model and compare readings with the $50 unit.

You can then make a determination as to which represents the best value
and return the other.


Their computer shows they have 3 in stock but no one could find them. Not
sure how their stock system works, but they may not get more in until the
inventory is low enough. I think I will call and talk with a manager.

They had another tester for $20 but I was not sure if it would work. It
read something like "AC voltage range: 200-750; AC amps: 20-200-1000A". I
wanted to see "0-200-750" and "0-20-200-1000A". Thinking back I guess I
should have looked at the dial longer at that would have told me more. I
guess I was just too ****ed that they could not find the one I wanted. Is
it a given that all digital meters will start reading from 0?

This might be the one I saw:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=95652

Cheers,
Jim

On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 21:56:59 -0600, "Jim2009"
wrote:


"HeyBub" wrote in message
om...
Jim2009 wrote:


Well, I got a new Clamp Amp Meter, at Home Depot $50. Harbor Freight
was out of the cheap ones even after I called to confirm their stock.


Bummer. But they'll be back in stock eventually. When the are, get the $10
model and compare readings with the $50 unit.

You can then make a determination as to which represents the best value
and return the other.


Their computer shows they have 3 in stock but no one could find them. Not
sure how their stock system works, but they may not get more in until the
inventory is low enough. I think I will call and talk with a manager.

They had another tester for $20 but I was not sure if it would work. It
read something like "AC voltage range: 200-750; AC amps: 20-200-1000A". I
wanted to see "0-200-750" and "0-20-200-1000A". Thinking back I guess I
should have looked at the dial longer at that would have told me more. I
guess I was just too ****ed that they could not find the one I wanted. Is
it a given that all digital meters will start reading from 0?

This might be the one I saw:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=95652

Cheers,
Jim


A Zero range would be useless. 20-200-1000 means 0-20, 0-200, and
0-1000 amps - EXACTLY what you are looking for.

"bud--" wrote in message
.. .
Jim2009 wrote:
"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:
On Jan 20, 1:20 am, "Jim2009" wrote:

Dryer Box; I took apart the fuse holders and cleaned all contact
points
(including the fuses) with emery cloth and then with water. One screw
assembles each fuse holder locking the holder (threads) and the wire
connection bar in place.

I found a corroded connection on one gate/post (when you flip the
level on
the box). It was on the heater side. It was not to bad, looked like
a bit
of the copper in the gate had transferred to the post which is more
like
silver. I also squeezed the gate prongs together to tighten the fit.

I found a major problem inside the outlet box after removing the
cover, one
side of one of the female prongs was broken. The male side prong
(cord
side) had some heat damage. I cleaned up the prongs on the cord.
Replaced
the dryer outlet with a new one. Hooked everything back up, ran the
dryer
on high heat without clothes for 30 mins, check the fuses - both were
just
slightly warm, nothing at all like before.

Washed a load, put them in the dryer, opened a beer. Checked the
fuses
about 20 mins into the load, heater side was hot again! (as it was in
the
beginning) But the motor side is now just slightly warm! I removed
the
fuse from the heater side and found some small arc points on the fuse
tip
and the screw head it contacts. I tightened the screw a bit, took the
30A
fuse from the motor side and stuck it in the heater side, put a new
15A in
the motor side. (I'm out of 30's, will get new ones tomorrow). I ran
the
dryer for another 10 mins, checked fuses - both just slightly warm.
(Maybe
it was not long enough for it to get hot, will run longer tomorrow.)

If the load on the 15A fuse was 21A (from measurements below) the fuse
should blow. Time depends on type of fuse. For a 15A SquareD breaker the
trip time would be 25-125 seconds. If you actually had 21A through a 15A
fuse the holder could be shorted from the center contact to the screw
shell. Unscrewing the fuse should kill the heat or the whole dryer
(depending on which).


I justed pulled the fuse and checked the socket with an ohms meter, no
short. I did another AIR cycle test and discovered I been telling you wrong
I got my wires (sides) switched! Doh..Doh..!#%#!#$#@ So when I put the 15A
fuse in ...in was in the heater only side and not the motor/heater side. I
know I ran it on the heat cycle, but I must have ran it at the end of the
cycle, cool-down portion so little or no heat.


I may tighten the screw inside the fuse holder a bit more, I didn't
want to
over do it.

Anyone have an idea how many Amps each side (heater/motor) should
draw? I
think I need to replace the box, but I would like to make sure the
dryer is
not the problem.


I'm not an expert in dryers, but I don't think there is one side for
the heater and one side for the motor. I would expect the heater
current flows through both legs, providing the heater with 240V. The
motor could be 120 and if so, would flow through one leg.

If it were me, I'd replace that box with a breaker as suggested. I
would not trust it, regardless of what else you find. And while I was
at it, since the main fuse panel is apparently located in a similar
environment and by all indications is likely even older, I'd get that
replaced by a new breaker panel too.

I agree with that, I've never seen a normal sized electric dryer here in
the US of A which didn't have the heaters powered with 240 volts using
both legs of the feed circuit.

That said, I'm a little suprised that the 15 amp fuse the OP said he put
in "the motor side" didn't blow.

At this point I'll allign with the folks who have told you to junk that
Dryer Fuse Box and install a breaker box.

For several years I had ongoing problems with a fused disconnect switch
supplying 240 volts to the supplementary resistance heaters in one of
our home's heat pump air handlers. The switch contacts would oxidize,
start heating up and raise the temperature of the end cap of its
adjacent cartridge fuse to the point where the fuse link would melt or
sometimes the solder jointing the fuse link to the end cap melted and
disconnected it.

That fused disconnect and air handler are in our attic, which is
definitely not a "moisture laden" area.

Cleaning and "tightening" the switch contacts would only solve the
problem for a few winter months before it recurred.

I gave up and replaced the entire fused disconnect with an identical one
and a couple of years later the same damn thing started happpening.

I (think) I finally put the problem to bed by replacing that fused
disconnect with an unfused "pull out" disconnect about 5 years ago.
There was no need for fuses there anyway, because the line feeding that
disconnect is protected by breakers at its feed end, the disconnect is
just a code required safety feature to protect service techs.

Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.



Well, I got a new Clamp Amp Meter, at Home Depot $50. Harbor Freight was
out of the cheap ones even after I called to confirm their stock.

I tightened the screws (the screw under the head of each fuse) in the
fuse holders and installed two new 30A fuses. I believe these screws
came loose from the hot and cold cycles. It's a ground level room that's
not heated. I did two loads tonight and they never got hot, just a very
slight temp increase.

If they stay cool you might have fixed it (or as noted above).

The name plate reads "Motor 4 Amps - Heater and Accessories 23 Amps".

I tested both lines, before and after the fuse, and at the dryer outlet
and found no difference per side.

-Cold start Dryer running on AIR cycle, the Motor side tested at =
21.73A, the Other side (I call it the heater side) tested at = 3.71A.


Yeah the above statement does not make sense, will retest it. I had it
running on a Heat Cycle for about 20 seconds then I flipped it to the Air
only cycle and took readings, maybe the heat stayed on for a few seconds or
more likely I read my notes wrong?

Don't know as how those make sense. If the heater ran on 120V it would
draw a lot less than 21A. Presumably the heater is not running on "air
cycle". If the meter sets the range automatically you may be reading the
decimal point wrong, like 21 mA. 3.71A is reasonable for the motor.


Yeah, the heater uses both sides. Plus, I had my sides switched in my
notes, so on the Air cycle the motor side = 3.71A, the heater only side is
0, (I just re-tested it). When I run a Heat Cycle the motor/heater side
increases from 3.71 to 23.6 +-.3, and the other heater only side increases
from 0 to 21.5 +-.3.


-Dryer warm running on low/med/or high heat. Motor side = 21.5 +-.3, the
Other side was slightly higher = 23.6 +-.3. I took several readings over
a 40-50 min period, all about the same per side.

Heater appears on both fuses and is 21.5A approx. compared to the
nameplate of 23A

Motor appears on only one wire (should be "other side")and is 23.6 - 21.5
= 2.1A approx. compared to the nameplate of 4A. Should increase with more
load in the dryer, or wet load.


Umm, I gave you bad info, so that's not true. The motor is 3.71A, the
heater on the motor side is approx 20A (23.6 - 3.71 = 19.89), and the other
side (heater only side) is approx 21.5A.

Thank you for your time,
Jim

On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 22:58:45 -0600, "Jim2009"
wrote:


"bud--" wrote in message
. ..
Jim2009 wrote:
"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:
On Jan 20, 1:20 am, "Jim2009" wrote:

Dryer Box; I took apart the fuse holders and cleaned all contact
points
(including the fuses) with emery cloth and then with water. One screw
assembles each fuse holder locking the holder (threads) and the wire
connection bar in place.

I found a corroded connection on one gate/post (when you flip the
level on
the box). It was on the heater side. It was not to bad, looked like
a bit
of the copper in the gate had transferred to the post which is more
like
silver. I also squeezed the gate prongs together to tighten the fit.

I found a major problem inside the outlet box after removing the
cover, one
side of one of the female prongs was broken. The male side prong
(cord
side) had some heat damage. I cleaned up the prongs on the cord.
Replaced
the dryer outlet with a new one. Hooked everything back up, ran the
dryer
on high heat without clothes for 30 mins, check the fuses - both were
just
slightly warm, nothing at all like before.

Washed a load, put them in the dryer, opened a beer. Checked the
fuses
about 20 mins into the load, heater side was hot again! (as it was in
the
beginning) But the motor side is now just slightly warm! I removed
the
fuse from the heater side and found some small arc points on the fuse
tip
and the screw head it contacts. I tightened the screw a bit, took the
30A
fuse from the motor side and stuck it in the heater side, put a new
15A in
the motor side. (I'm out of 30's, will get new ones tomorrow). I ran
the
dryer for another 10 mins, checked fuses - both just slightly warm.
(Maybe
it was not long enough for it to get hot, will run longer tomorrow.)

If the load on the 15A fuse was 21A (from measurements below) the fuse
should blow. Time depends on type of fuse. For a 15A SquareD breaker the
trip time would be 25-125 seconds. If you actually had 21A through a 15A
fuse the holder could be shorted from the center contact to the screw
shell. Unscrewing the fuse should kill the heat or the whole dryer
(depending on which).


I justed pulled the fuse and checked the socket with an ohms meter, no
short. I did another AIR cycle test and discovered I been telling you wrong
I got my wires (sides) switched! Doh..Doh..!#%#!#$#@ So when I put the 15A
fuse in ...in was in the heater only side and not the motor/heater side. I
know I ran it on the heat cycle, but I must have ran it at the end of the
cycle, cool-down portion so little or no heat.


I may tighten the screw inside the fuse holder a bit more, I didn't
want to
over do it.

Anyone have an idea how many Amps each side (heater/motor) should
draw? I
think I need to replace the box, but I would like to make sure the
dryer is
not the problem.


I'm not an expert in dryers, but I don't think there is one side for
the heater and one side for the motor. I would expect the heater
current flows through both legs, providing the heater with 240V. The
motor could be 120 and if so, would flow through one leg.

If it were me, I'd replace that box with a breaker as suggested. I
would not trust it, regardless of what else you find. And while I was
at it, since the main fuse panel is apparently located in a similar
environment and by all indications is likely even older, I'd get that
replaced by a new breaker panel too.

I agree with that, I've never seen a normal sized electric dryer here in
the US of A which didn't have the heaters powered with 240 volts using
both legs of the feed circuit.

That said, I'm a little suprised that the 15 amp fuse the OP said he put
in "the motor side" didn't blow.

At this point I'll allign with the folks who have told you to junk that
Dryer Fuse Box and install a breaker box.

For several years I had ongoing problems with a fused disconnect switch
supplying 240 volts to the supplementary resistance heaters in one of
our home's heat pump air handlers. The switch contacts would oxidize,
start heating up and raise the temperature of the end cap of its
adjacent cartridge fuse to the point where the fuse link would melt or
sometimes the solder jointing the fuse link to the end cap melted and
disconnected it.

That fused disconnect and air handler are in our attic, which is
definitely not a "moisture laden" area.

Cleaning and "tightening" the switch contacts would only solve the
problem for a few winter months before it recurred.

I gave up and replaced the entire fused disconnect with an identical one
and a couple of years later the same damn thing started happpening.

I (think) I finally put the problem to bed by replacing that fused
disconnect with an unfused "pull out" disconnect about 5 years ago.
There was no need for fuses there anyway, because the line feeding that
disconnect is protected by breakers at its feed end, the disconnect is
just a code required safety feature to protect service techs.

Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.



Well, I got a new Clamp Amp Meter, at Home Depot $50. Harbor Freight was
out of the cheap ones even after I called to confirm their stock.

I tightened the screws (the screw under the head of each fuse) in the
fuse holders and installed two new 30A fuses. I believe these screws
came loose from the hot and cold cycles. It's a ground level room that's
not heated. I did two loads tonight and they never got hot, just a very
slight temp increase.

If they stay cool you might have fixed it (or as noted above).

The name plate reads "Motor 4 Amps - Heater and Accessories 23 Amps".

I tested both lines, before and after the fuse, and at the dryer outlet
and found no difference per side.

-Cold start Dryer running on AIR cycle, the Motor side tested at =
21.73A, the Other side (I call it the heater side) tested at = 3.71A.


Yeah the above statement does not make sense, will retest it. I had it
running on a Heat Cycle for about 20 seconds then I flipped it to the Air
only cycle and took readings, maybe the heat stayed on for a few seconds or
more likely I read my notes wrong?

Don't know as how those make sense. If the heater ran on 120V it would
draw a lot less than 21A. Presumably the heater is not running on "air
cycle". If the meter sets the range automatically you may be reading the
decimal point wrong, like 21 mA. 3.71A is reasonable for the motor.


Yeah, the heater uses both sides. Plus, I had my sides switched in my
notes, so on the Air cycle the motor side = 3.71A, the heater only side is
0, (I just re-tested it). When I run a Heat Cycle the motor/heater side
increases from 3.71 to 23.6 +-.3, and the other heater only side increases
from 0 to 21.5 +-.3.


-Dryer warm running on low/med/or high heat. Motor side = 21.5 +-.3, the
Other side was slightly higher = 23.6 +-.3. I took several readings over
a 40-50 min period, all about the same per side.

Heater appears on both fuses and is 21.5A approx. compared to the
nameplate of 23A

Motor appears on only one wire (should be "other side")and is 23.6 - 21.5
= 2.1A approx. compared to the nameplate of 4A. Should increase with more
load in the dryer, or wet load.


Umm, I gave you bad info, so that's not true. The motor is 3.71A, the
heater on the motor side is approx 20A (23.6 - 3.71 = 19.89), and the other
side (heater only side) is approx 21.5A.

Thank you for your time,
Jim


You don't understand how that thing is wired. You have 3 wires. The
heater connects from the red to the black. That is from fuse 1 to fuse
2. and is nominaly 240 volt.
The heater does not know the white wire even exists - so whatever the
heater draws on the one fuse, it draws EXACTLY the same on the other
fuse. The motor and the timer motor run on nominally 120 volts , which
is from one fuse to the neutral.

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 22:58:45 -0600, "Jim2009"
wrote:


"bud--" wrote in message
...
Jim2009 wrote:
"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:
On Jan 20, 1:20 am, "Jim2009" wrote:

Dryer Box; I took apart the fuse holders and cleaned all contact
points
(including the fuses) with emery cloth and then with water. One
screw
assembles each fuse holder locking the holder (threads) and the wire
connection bar in place.

I found a corroded connection on one gate/post (when you flip the
level on
the box). It was on the heater side. It was not to bad, looked
like
a bit
of the copper in the gate had transferred to the post which is more
like
silver. I also squeezed the gate prongs together to tighten the
fit.

I found a major problem inside the outlet box after removing the
cover, one
side of one of the female prongs was broken. The male side prong
(cord
side) had some heat damage. I cleaned up the prongs on the cord.
Replaced
the dryer outlet with a new one. Hooked everything back up, ran the
dryer
on high heat without clothes for 30 mins, check the fuses - both
were
just
slightly warm, nothing at all like before.

Washed a load, put them in the dryer, opened a beer. Checked the
fuses
about 20 mins into the load, heater side was hot again! (as it was
in
the
beginning) But the motor side is now just slightly warm! I removed
the
fuse from the heater side and found some small arc points on the
fuse
tip
and the screw head it contacts. I tightened the screw a bit, took
the
30A
fuse from the motor side and stuck it in the heater side, put a new
15A in
the motor side. (I'm out of 30's, will get new ones tomorrow). I
ran
the
dryer for another 10 mins, checked fuses - both just slightly warm.
(Maybe
it was not long enough for it to get hot, will run longer tomorrow.)

If the load on the 15A fuse was 21A (from measurements below) the fuse
should blow. Time depends on type of fuse. For a 15A SquareD breaker the
trip time would be 25-125 seconds. If you actually had 21A through a 15A
fuse the holder could be shorted from the center contact to the screw
shell. Unscrewing the fuse should kill the heat or the whole dryer
(depending on which).


I justed pulled the fuse and checked the socket with an ohms meter, no
short. I did another AIR cycle test and discovered I been telling you
wrong
I got my wires (sides) switched! Doh..Doh..!#%#!#$#@ So when I put the
15A
fuse in ...in was in the heater only side and not the motor/heater side.
I
know I ran it on the heat cycle, but I must have ran it at the end of the
cycle, cool-down portion so little or no heat.


I may tighten the screw inside the fuse holder a bit more, I didn't
want to
over do it.

Anyone have an idea how many Amps each side (heater/motor) should
draw? I
think I need to replace the box, but I would like to make sure the
dryer is
not the problem.


I'm not an expert in dryers, but I don't think there is one side for
the heater and one side for the motor. I would expect the heater
current flows through both legs, providing the heater with 240V.
The
motor could be 120 and if so, would flow through one leg.

If it were me, I'd replace that box with a breaker as suggested. I
would not trust it, regardless of what else you find. And while I
was
at it, since the main fuse panel is apparently located in a similar
environment and by all indications is likely even older, I'd get
that
replaced by a new breaker panel too.

I agree with that, I've never seen a normal sized electric dryer here
in
the US of A which didn't have the heaters powered with 240 volts using
both legs of the feed circuit.

That said, I'm a little suprised that the 15 amp fuse the OP said he
put
in "the motor side" didn't blow.

At this point I'll allign with the folks who have told you to junk
that
Dryer Fuse Box and install a breaker box.

For several years I had ongoing problems with a fused disconnect
switch
supplying 240 volts to the supplementary resistance heaters in one of
our home's heat pump air handlers. The switch contacts would oxidize,
start heating up and raise the temperature of the end cap of its
adjacent cartridge fuse to the point where the fuse link would melt or
sometimes the solder jointing the fuse link to the end cap melted and
disconnected it.

That fused disconnect and air handler are in our attic, which is
definitely not a "moisture laden" area.

Cleaning and "tightening" the switch contacts would only solve the
problem for a few winter months before it recurred.

I gave up and replaced the entire fused disconnect with an identical
one
and a couple of years later the same damn thing started happpening.

I (think) I finally put the problem to bed by replacing that fused
disconnect with an unfused "pull out" disconnect about 5 years ago.
There was no need for fuses there anyway, because the line feeding
that
disconnect is protected by breakers at its feed end, the disconnect is
just a code required safety feature to protect service techs.

Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.



Well, I got a new Clamp Amp Meter, at Home Depot $50. Harbor Freight
was
out of the cheap ones even after I called to confirm their stock.

I tightened the screws (the screw under the head of each fuse) in the
fuse holders and installed two new 30A fuses. I believe these screws
came loose from the hot and cold cycles. It's a ground level room
that's
not heated. I did two loads tonight and they never got hot, just a very
slight temp increase.

If they stay cool you might have fixed it (or as noted above).

The name plate reads "Motor 4 Amps - Heater and Accessories 23 Amps".

I tested both lines, before and after the fuse, and at the dryer outlet
and found no difference per side.

-Cold start Dryer running on AIR cycle, the Motor side tested at =
21.73A, the Other side (I call it the heater side) tested at = 3.71A.


Yeah the above statement does not make sense, will retest it. I had it
running on a Heat Cycle for about 20 seconds then I flipped it to the Air
only cycle and took readings, maybe the heat stayed on for a few seconds
or
more likely I read my notes wrong?

Don't know as how those make sense. If the heater ran on 120V it would
draw a lot less than 21A. Presumably the heater is not running on "air
cycle". If the meter sets the range automatically you may be reading the
decimal point wrong, like 21 mA. 3.71A is reasonable for the motor.


Yeah, the heater uses both sides. Plus, I had my sides switched in my
notes, so on the Air cycle the motor side = 3.71A, the heater only side is
0, (I just re-tested it). When I run a Heat Cycle the motor/heater side
increases from 3.71 to 23.6 +-.3, and the other heater only side
increases
from 0 to 21.5 +-.3.


-Dryer warm running on low/med/or high heat. Motor side = 21.5 +-.3,
the
Other side was slightly higher = 23.6 +-.3. I took several readings
over
a 40-50 min period, all about the same per side.

Heater appears on both fuses and is 21.5A approx. compared to the
nameplate of 23A

Motor appears on only one wire (should be "other side")and is 23.6 -
21.5
= 2.1A approx. compared to the nameplate of 4A. Should increase with
more
load in the dryer, or wet load.


Umm, I gave you bad info, so that's not true. The motor is 3.71A, the
heater on the motor side is approx 20A (23.6 - 3.71 = 19.89), and the
other
side (heater only side) is approx 21.5A.

Thank you for your time,
Jim


You don't understand how that thing is wired. You have 3 wires. The
heater connects from the red to the black. That is from fuse 1 to fuse
2. and is nominaly 240 volt.
The heater does not know the white wire even exists - so whatever the
heater draws on the one fuse, it draws EXACTLY the same on the other
fuse. The motor and the timer motor run on nominally 120 volts , which
is from one fuse to the neutral.

I'm just saying what the meter reads, no heat 3.71A on one leg, with heat
the same leg increases about 20A, and the other from 0 to about 21.5A. I
don't know why they are different but it's plain to see that there are.

On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 16:45:38 -0600, "Jim2009"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 22:58:45 -0600, "Jim2009"
wrote:


"bud--" wrote in message
T...
Jim2009 wrote:
"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:
On Jan 20, 1:20 am, "Jim2009" wrote:

Dryer Box; I took apart the fuse holders and cleaned all contact
points
(including the fuses) with emery cloth and then with water. One
screw
assembles each fuse holder locking the holder (threads) and the wire
connection bar in place.

I found a corroded connection on one gate/post (when you flip the
level on
the box). It was on the heater side. It was not to bad, looked
like
a bit
of the copper in the gate had transferred to the post which is more
like
silver. I also squeezed the gate prongs together to tighten the
fit.

I found a major problem inside the outlet box after removing the
cover, one
side of one of the female prongs was broken. The male side prong
(cord
side) had some heat damage. I cleaned up the prongs on the cord.
Replaced
the dryer outlet with a new one. Hooked everything back up, ran the
dryer
on high heat without clothes for 30 mins, check the fuses - both
were
just
slightly warm, nothing at all like before.

Washed a load, put them in the dryer, opened a beer. Checked the
fuses
about 20 mins into the load, heater side was hot again! (as it was
in
the
beginning) But the motor side is now just slightly warm! I removed
the
fuse from the heater side and found some small arc points on the
fuse
tip
and the screw head it contacts. I tightened the screw a bit, took
the
30A
fuse from the motor side and stuck it in the heater side, put a new
15A in
the motor side. (I'm out of 30's, will get new ones tomorrow). I
ran
the
dryer for another 10 mins, checked fuses - both just slightly warm.
(Maybe
it was not long enough for it to get hot, will run longer tomorrow.)

If the load on the 15A fuse was 21A (from measurements below) the fuse
should blow. Time depends on type of fuse. For a 15A SquareD breaker the
trip time would be 25-125 seconds. If you actually had 21A through a 15A
fuse the holder could be shorted from the center contact to the screw
shell. Unscrewing the fuse should kill the heat or the whole dryer
(depending on which).


I justed pulled the fuse and checked the socket with an ohms meter, no
short. I did another AIR cycle test and discovered I been telling you
wrong
I got my wires (sides) switched! Doh..Doh..!#%#!#$#@ So when I put the
15A
fuse in ...in was in the heater only side and not the motor/heater side.
I
know I ran it on the heat cycle, but I must have ran it at the end of the
cycle, cool-down portion so little or no heat.


I may tighten the screw inside the fuse holder a bit more, I didn't
want to
over do it.

Anyone have an idea how many Amps each side (heater/motor) should
draw? I
think I need to replace the box, but I would like to make sure the
dryer is
not the problem.


I'm not an expert in dryers, but I don't think there is one side for
the heater and one side for the motor. I would expect the heater
current flows through both legs, providing the heater with 240V.
The
motor could be 120 and if so, would flow through one leg.

If it were me, I'd replace that box with a breaker as suggested. I
would not trust it, regardless of what else you find. And while I
was
at it, since the main fuse panel is apparently located in a similar
environment and by all indications is likely even older, I'd get
that
replaced by a new breaker panel too.

I agree with that, I've never seen a normal sized electric dryer here
in
the US of A which didn't have the heaters powered with 240 volts using
both legs of the feed circuit.

That said, I'm a little suprised that the 15 amp fuse the OP said he
put
in "the motor side" didn't blow.

At this point I'll allign with the folks who have told you to junk
that
Dryer Fuse Box and install a breaker box.

For several years I had ongoing problems with a fused disconnect
switch
supplying 240 volts to the supplementary resistance heaters in one of
our home's heat pump air handlers. The switch contacts would oxidize,
start heating up and raise the temperature of the end cap of its
adjacent cartridge fuse to the point where the fuse link would melt or
sometimes the solder jointing the fuse link to the end cap melted and
disconnected it.

That fused disconnect and air handler are in our attic, which is
definitely not a "moisture laden" area.

Cleaning and "tightening" the switch contacts would only solve the
problem for a few winter months before it recurred.

I gave up and replaced the entire fused disconnect with an identical
one
and a couple of years later the same damn thing started happpening.

I (think) I finally put the problem to bed by replacing that fused
disconnect with an unfused "pull out" disconnect about 5 years ago.
There was no need for fuses there anyway, because the line feeding
that
disconnect is protected by breakers at its feed end, the disconnect is
just a code required safety feature to protect service techs.

Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.



Well, I got a new Clamp Amp Meter, at Home Depot $50. Harbor Freight
was
out of the cheap ones even after I called to confirm their stock.

I tightened the screws (the screw under the head of each fuse) in the
fuse holders and installed two new 30A fuses. I believe these screws
came loose from the hot and cold cycles. It's a ground level room
that's
not heated. I did two loads tonight and they never got hot, just a very
slight temp increase.

If they stay cool you might have fixed it (or as noted above).

The name plate reads "Motor 4 Amps - Heater and Accessories 23 Amps".

I tested both lines, before and after the fuse, and at the dryer outlet
and found no difference per side.

-Cold start Dryer running on AIR cycle, the Motor side tested at =
21.73A, the Other side (I call it the heater side) tested at = 3.71A.


Yeah the above statement does not make sense, will retest it. I had it
running on a Heat Cycle for about 20 seconds then I flipped it to the Air
only cycle and took readings, maybe the heat stayed on for a few seconds
or
more likely I read my notes wrong?

Don't know as how those make sense. If the heater ran on 120V it would
draw a lot less than 21A. Presumably the heater is not running on "air
cycle". If the meter sets the range automatically you may be reading the
decimal point wrong, like 21 mA. 3.71A is reasonable for the motor.


Yeah, the heater uses both sides. Plus, I had my sides switched in my
notes, so on the Air cycle the motor side = 3.71A, the heater only side is
0, (I just re-tested it). When I run a Heat Cycle the motor/heater side
increases from 3.71 to 23.6 +-.3, and the other heater only side
increases
from 0 to 21.5 +-.3.


-Dryer warm running on low/med/or high heat. Motor side = 21.5 +-.3,
the
Other side was slightly higher = 23.6 +-.3. I took several readings
over
a 40-50 min period, all about the same per side.

Heater appears on both fuses and is 21.5A approx. compared to the
nameplate of 23A

Motor appears on only one wire (should be "other side")and is 23.6 -
21.5
= 2.1A approx. compared to the nameplate of 4A. Should increase with
more
load in the dryer, or wet load.


Umm, I gave you bad info, so that's not true. The motor is 3.71A, the
heater on the motor side is approx 20A (23.6 - 3.71 = 19.89), and the
other
side (heater only side) is approx 21.5A.

Thank you for your time,
Jim


You don't understand how that thing is wired. You have 3 wires. The
heater connects from the red to the black. That is from fuse 1 to fuse
2. and is nominaly 240 volt.
The heater does not know the white wire even exists - so whatever the
heater draws on the one fuse, it draws EXACTLY the same on the other
fuse. The motor and the timer motor run on nominally 120 volts , which
is from one fuse to the neutral.

I'm just saying what the meter reads, no heat 3.71A on one leg, with heat
the same leg increases about 20A, and the other from 0 to about 21.5A. I
don't know why they are different but it's plain to see that there are.

I think you still have a connection problem somewhere and you are
still making heat somewhere other than at the element.

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 16:45:38 -0600, "Jim2009"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 22:58:45 -0600, "Jim2009"
wrote:


"bud--" wrote in message
ET...
Jim2009 wrote:
"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:
On Jan 20, 1:20 am, "Jim2009" wrote:

Dryer Box; I took apart the fuse holders and cleaned all contact
points
(including the fuses) with emery cloth and then with water. One
screw
assembles each fuse holder locking the holder (threads) and the
wire
connection bar in place.

I found a corroded connection on one gate/post (when you flip the
level on
the box). It was on the heater side. It was not to bad, looked
like
a bit
of the copper in the gate had transferred to the post which is
more
like
silver. I also squeezed the gate prongs together to tighten the
fit.

I found a major problem inside the outlet box after removing the
cover, one
side of one of the female prongs was broken. The male side prong
(cord
side) had some heat damage. I cleaned up the prongs on the cord.
Replaced
the dryer outlet with a new one. Hooked everything back up, ran
the
dryer
on high heat without clothes for 30 mins, check the fuses - both
were
just
slightly warm, nothing at all like before.

Washed a load, put them in the dryer, opened a beer. Checked the
fuses
about 20 mins into the load, heater side was hot again! (as it
was
in
the
beginning) But the motor side is now just slightly warm! I
removed
the
fuse from the heater side and found some small arc points on the
fuse
tip
and the screw head it contacts. I tightened the screw a bit, took
the
30A
fuse from the motor side and stuck it in the heater side, put a
new
15A in
the motor side. (I'm out of 30's, will get new ones tomorrow). I
ran
the
dryer for another 10 mins, checked fuses - both just slightly
warm.
(Maybe
it was not long enough for it to get hot, will run longer
tomorrow.)

If the load on the 15A fuse was 21A (from measurements below) the fuse
should blow. Time depends on type of fuse. For a 15A SquareD breaker
the
trip time would be 25-125 seconds. If you actually had 21A through a
15A
fuse the holder could be shorted from the center contact to the screw
shell. Unscrewing the fuse should kill the heat or the whole dryer
(depending on which).


I justed pulled the fuse and checked the socket with an ohms meter, no
short. I did another AIR cycle test and discovered I been telling you
wrong
I got my wires (sides) switched! Doh..Doh..!#%#!#$#@ So when I put the
15A
fuse in ...in was in the heater only side and not the motor/heater side.
I
know I ran it on the heat cycle, but I must have ran it at the end of
the
cycle, cool-down portion so little or no heat.


I may tighten the screw inside the fuse holder a bit more, I
didn't
want to
over do it.

Anyone have an idea how many Amps each side (heater/motor) should
draw? I
think I need to replace the box, but I would like to make sure the
dryer is
not the problem.


I'm not an expert in dryers, but I don't think there is one side
for
the heater and one side for the motor. I would expect the heater
current flows through both legs, providing the heater with 240V.
The
motor could be 120 and if so, would flow through one leg.

If it were me, I'd replace that box with a breaker as suggested. I
would not trust it, regardless of what else you find. And while I
was
at it, since the main fuse panel is apparently located in a similar
environment and by all indications is likely even older, I'd get
that
replaced by a new breaker panel too.

I agree with that, I've never seen a normal sized electric dryer
here
in
the US of A which didn't have the heaters powered with 240 volts
using
both legs of the feed circuit.

That said, I'm a little suprised that the 15 amp fuse the OP said he
put
in "the motor side" didn't blow.

At this point I'll allign with the folks who have told you to junk
that
Dryer Fuse Box and install a breaker box.

For several years I had ongoing problems with a fused disconnect
switch
supplying 240 volts to the supplementary resistance heaters in one
of
our home's heat pump air handlers. The switch contacts would
oxidize,
start heating up and raise the temperature of the end cap of its
adjacent cartridge fuse to the point where the fuse link would melt
or
sometimes the solder jointing the fuse link to the end cap melted
and
disconnected it.

That fused disconnect and air handler are in our attic, which is
definitely not a "moisture laden" area.

Cleaning and "tightening" the switch contacts would only solve the
problem for a few winter months before it recurred.

I gave up and replaced the entire fused disconnect with an identical
one
and a couple of years later the same damn thing started happpening.

I (think) I finally put the problem to bed by replacing that fused
disconnect with an unfused "pull out" disconnect about 5 years ago.
There was no need for fuses there anyway, because the line feeding
that
disconnect is protected by breakers at its feed end, the disconnect
is
just a code required safety feature to protect service techs.

Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.



Well, I got a new Clamp Amp Meter, at Home Depot $50. Harbor Freight
was
out of the cheap ones even after I called to confirm their stock.

I tightened the screws (the screw under the head of each fuse) in the
fuse holders and installed two new 30A fuses. I believe these screws
came loose from the hot and cold cycles. It's a ground level room
that's
not heated. I did two loads tonight and they never got hot, just a
very
slight temp increase.

If they stay cool you might have fixed it (or as noted above).

The name plate reads "Motor 4 Amps - Heater and Accessories 23 Amps".

I tested both lines, before and after the fuse, and at the dryer
outlet
and found no difference per side.

-Cold start Dryer running on AIR cycle, the Motor side tested at =
21.73A, the Other side (I call it the heater side) tested at = 3.71A.


Yeah the above statement does not make sense, will retest it. I had it
running on a Heat Cycle for about 20 seconds then I flipped it to the
Air
only cycle and took readings, maybe the heat stayed on for a few seconds
or
more likely I read my notes wrong?

Don't know as how those make sense. If the heater ran on 120V it would
draw a lot less than 21A. Presumably the heater is not running on "air
cycle". If the meter sets the range automatically you may be reading
the
decimal point wrong, like 21 mA. 3.71A is reasonable for the motor.


Yeah, the heater uses both sides. Plus, I had my sides switched in my
notes, so on the Air cycle the motor side = 3.71A, the heater only side
is
0, (I just re-tested it). When I run a Heat Cycle the motor/heater side
increases from 3.71 to 23.6 +-.3, and the other heater only side
increases
from 0 to 21.5 +-.3.


-Dryer warm running on low/med/or high heat. Motor side = 21.5 +-.3,
the
Other side was slightly higher = 23.6 +-.3. I took several readings
over
a 40-50 min period, all about the same per side.

Heater appears on both fuses and is 21.5A approx. compared to the
nameplate of 23A

Motor appears on only one wire (should be "other side")and is 23.6 -
21.5
= 2.1A approx. compared to the nameplate of 4A. Should increase with
more
load in the dryer, or wet load.


Umm, I gave you bad info, so that's not true. The motor is 3.71A, the
heater on the motor side is approx 20A (23.6 - 3.71 = 19.89), and the
other
side (heater only side) is approx 21.5A.

Thank you for your time,
Jim


You don't understand how that thing is wired. You have 3 wires. The
heater connects from the red to the black. That is from fuse 1 to fuse
2. and is nominaly 240 volt.
The heater does not know the white wire even exists - so whatever the
heater draws on the one fuse, it draws EXACTLY the same on the other
fuse. The motor and the timer motor run on nominally 120 volts , which
is from one fuse to the neutral.

I'm just saying what the meter reads, no heat 3.71A on one leg, with heat
the same leg increases about 20A, and the other from 0 to about 21.5A. I
don't know why they are different but it's plain to see that there are.

I think you still have a connection problem somewhere and you are
still making heat somewhere other than at the element.

Hmm, OK, I will keep that in mind. Maybe after the fuse box is replaced the
increase with heat will be equal on both legs.

Cheers,
Jim