Hi,

This is related to the earlier post where I was asking about replacing
valves on my water supply line. Here's a picture of what that area
looks like:

http://freeboundaries.com/thing.jpg

I know what the #4 copper wire is for, but what the heck is that ugly
devide in middle for and can I cut it out?

Many thanks in advance,

Aaron

On Dec 20, 10:57*am, Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi,

This is related to the earlier post where I was asking about replacing
valves on my water supply line. Here's a picture of what that area
looks like:

http://freeboundaries.com/thing.jpg

I know what the #4 copper wire is for, but what the heck is that ugly
devide in middle for and can I cut it out?

Many thanks in advance,

Aaron

By "devide" I meant "device" in both instances.

That is your water meter!

On Dec 20, 11:00�am, Aaron Fude wrote:
On Dec 20, 10:57�am, Aaron Fude wrote:

Hi,

This is related to the earlier post where I was asking about replacing
valves on my water supply line. Here's a picture of what that area
looks like:

http://freeboundaries.com/thing.jpg

I know what the #4 copper wire is for, but what the heck is that ugly
devide in middle for and can I cut it out?

Many thanks in advance,

Aaron

By "devide" I meant "device" in both instances.

you talking about the meter? with the blue seal?

Aaron Fude wrote:
On Dec 20, 10:57 am, Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi,

This is related to the earlier post where I was asking about replacing
valves on my water supply line. Here's a picture of what that area
looks like:

http://freeboundaries.com/thing.jpg

I know what the #4 copper wire is for, but what the heck is that ugly
devide in middle for and can I cut it out?

Many thanks in advance,

Aaron

By "devide" I meant "device" in both instances.



That big ugly thing is the water meter.

On Dec 20, 11:18*am, zxcvbob wrote:
Aaron Fude wrote:
On Dec 20, 10:57 am, Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi,

This is related to the earlier post where I was asking about replacing
valves on my water supply line. Here's a picture of what that area
looks like:

http://freeboundaries.com/thing.jpg

I know what the #4 copper wire is for, but what the heck is that ugly
devide in middle for and can I cut it out?

Many thanks in advance,

Aaron

By "devide" I meant "device" in both instances.

That big ugly thing is the water meter.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, that's the device I meant.

If the water meter is on the inside, how does the water company know
how much water I am using?
What's the curly wire going to it?
Is it in good shape or should I replace it?

it is read from the street using some sort of wireless technology. Even
theones outside are done that way a lot now also.

s


"Aaron Fude" wrote in message
...
On Dec 20, 11:18 am, zxcvbob wrote:
Aaron Fude wrote:
On Dec 20, 10:57 am, Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi,

This is related to the earlier post where I was asking about replacing
valves on my water supply line. Here's a picture of what that area
looks like:

http://freeboundaries.com/thing.jpg

I know what the #4 copper wire is for, but what the heck is that ugly
devide in middle for and can I cut it out?

Many thanks in advance,

Aaron

By "devide" I meant "device" in both instances.

That big ugly thing is the water meter.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, that's the device I meant.

If the water meter is on the inside, how does the water company know
how much water I am using?
What's the curly wire going to it?
Is it in good shape or should I replace it?

On Dec 20, 9:57*am, Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi,

This is related to the earlier post where I was asking about replacing
valves on my water supply line. Here's a picture of what that area
looks like:

http://freeboundaries.com/thing.jpg

I know what the #4 copper wire is for, but what the heck is that ugly
devide in middle for and can I cut it out?

Many thanks in advance,

Aaron

There might be a major problem in that installation. The 'device' is a
water meter. Leave it alone. The #4 or whatever, solid copper wire
probably goes to an external ground rod, or should. However, meter
installations are almost always required to have a braided #4 copper
bypass around the water meter to keep the house plumbing grounded if
the meter is removed for service. I don't see anything like that in
your photo. Given your situation, I would buy the clamps and wire and
install it before any electrical inspection might occur. This is code
required almost universally.

Joe

Aaron Fude wrote:
On Dec 20, 11:18 am, zxcvbob wrote:
Aaron Fude wrote:
On Dec 20, 10:57 am, Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi,
This is related to the earlier post where I was asking about replacing
valves on my water supply line. Here's a picture of what that area
looks like:
http://freeboundaries.com/thing.jpg
I know what the #4 copper wire is for, but what the heck is that ugly
devide in middle for and can I cut it out?
Many thanks in advance,
Aaron
By "devide" I meant "device" in both instances.
That big ugly thing is the water meter.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, that's the device I meant.

If the water meter is on the inside, how does the water company know
how much water I am using?
What's the curly wire going to it?
Is it in good shape or should I replace it?
Hi,
They read it remotely. In our area meter reader just drive by the house
to read it. I was told in the future it'll be read via sattelite.
Likewise natural gas meter is done same way.

On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 09:48:29 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:
Aaron Fude wrote:
On Dec 20, 11:18 am, zxcvbob wrote:
Aaron Fude wrote:
On Dec 20, 10:57 am, Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi,
This is related to the earlier post where I was asking about replacing
valves on my water supply line. Here's a picture of what that area
looks like:
http://freeboundaries.com/thing.jpg
I know what the #4 copper wire is for, but what the heck is that ugly
devide in middle for and can I cut it out?
Many thanks in advance,
Aaron
By "devide" I meant "device" in both instances.
That big ugly thing is the water meter.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, that's the device I meant.

If the water meter is on the inside, how does the water company know
how much water I am using?
What's the curly wire going to it?
Is it in good shape or should I replace it?
Hi,
They read it remotely. In our area meter reader just drive by the house
to read it. I was told in the future it'll be read via sattelite.
Likewise natural gas meter is done same way.

Doubtful. Sattelite uplinks are expensive.

"Joe" wrote in message
...
On Dec 20, 9:57 am, Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi,

This is related to the earlier post where I was asking about replacing
valves on my water supply line. Here's a picture of what that area
looks like:

http://freeboundaries.com/thing.jpg

I know what the #4 copper wire is for, but what the heck is that ugly
devide in middle for and can I cut it out?

Many thanks in advance,

Aaron

There might be a major problem in that installation. The 'device' is a
water meter. Leave it alone. The #4 or whatever, solid copper wire
probably goes to an external ground rod, or should. However, meter
installations are almost always required to have a braided #4 copper
bypass around the water meter to keep the house plumbing grounded if
the meter is removed for service. I don't see anything like that in
your photo. Given your situation, I would buy the clamps and wire and
install it before any electrical inspection might occur. This is code
required almost universally.

Joe

The meter bonding jumper does not go to an outdoor ground rod, and
shouldn't. The metal underground water pipe is part of the grounding
electrode system of the service. Ground rods are an additional part of the
same system and are run independent of the water pipe. The bonding jumper,
which can be #8 copper or larger depending upon the service size, is
protecting anyone that may remove the meter. What is seen in his picture
looks fine and NEC legal

Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi,

This is related to the earlier post where I was asking about replacing
valves on my water supply line. Here's a picture of what that area
looks like:

http://freeboundaries.com/thing.jpg

I know what the #4 copper wire is for, but what the heck is that ugly
devide in middle for and can I cut it out?

Many thanks in advance,

Aaron

I agree it's ugly. On the theory it's something important, you could build a
box to cover it. Or do like architechts do: plant ivy.

Joe wrote:
On Dec 20, 9:57 am, Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi,

This is related to the earlier post where I was asking about replacing
valves on my water supply line. Here's a picture of what that area
looks like:

http://freeboundaries.com/thing.jpg

I know what the #4 copper wire is for, but what the heck is that ugly
devide in middle for and can I cut it out?

Many thanks in advance,

Aaron

There might be a major problem in that installation. The 'device' is a
water meter. Leave it alone. The #4 or whatever, solid copper wire
probably goes to an external ground rod, or should. However, meter
installations are almost always required to have a braided #4 copper
bypass around the water meter to keep the house plumbing grounded if
the meter is removed for service. I don't see anything like that in
your photo. Given your situation, I would buy the clamps and wire and
install it before any electrical inspection might occur. This is code
required almost universally.

Joe


I would leave it alone. But there is enough slack in that solid ground
wire to clamp it to the water line on the other side of the meter (leave
the existing connection alone, and do not cut that wire)

Bob

AZ Nomad wrote:
On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 09:48:29 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:
Aaron Fude wrote:
On Dec 20, 11:18 am, zxcvbob wrote:
Aaron Fude wrote:
On Dec 20, 10:57 am, Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi,
This is related to the earlier post where I was asking about replacing
valves on my water supply line. Here's a picture of what that area
looks like:
http://freeboundaries.com/thing.jpg
I know what the #4 copper wire is for, but what the heck is that ugly
devide in middle for and can I cut it out?
Many thanks in advance,
Aaron
By "devide" I meant "device" in both instances.
That big ugly thing is the water meter.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Yes, that's the device I meant.

If the water meter is on the inside, how does the water company know
how much water I am using?
What's the curly wire going to it?
Is it in good shape or should I replace it?
Hi,
They read it remotely. In our area meter reader just drive by the house
to read it. I was told in the future it'll be read via sattelite.
Likewise natural gas meter is done same way.

Doubtful. Sattelite uplinks are expensive.
Hi,
Why not? think meter reader is cheap? It is all readsy. Just a matter of
implementing the feature. Even car dealers use sattelite for engine
diagostics and parts logistics. One of area drug store chain use
sattelite links too.

just fyi, using copper supply line for a ground does indeed meet code as
long as there's at least 15 feet of copper outside the foundation. In fact,
in our jurisdiction, that is 'all' that is required. All the lines in our
town are required to be copper from the house to the meter.

s


"Mark" wrote in message
...
Arron, You've had a lot of comments and suggestions already. Here is a
description of the parts in your picture. Starting from the left:

The valve - that is apparently what you are planning to replace. Any
reason? It doesn't appear to be leaking and seams fairly new. Is it a
case that it doesn't shut off completely?

Ground wire / clamp - In older homes (as mine is) they use to ground the
entire electric system to the cold water supply. Look for this: somewhere
near your electric panel is there a similar wire coming out of the panel
and connecting to a cold water pipe? If so, that is the main ground for
your electric. That's not code today, but may be "grandfathered" in as
long as you don't upgrade the electric which would require you bring it up
to code. Regardless, as another poster has mentioned, it is also necessary
to ground the plumbing system. It should connect on the other side of the
meter. It was mentioned that this was in case the meter was removed, but
it is also necessary in many cases, and yours looks to be one of them, the
meter is largely plastic and therefore doesn't provide an adequate ground.

The Blue cap - that is a tamper device intended to prevent you from
removing the meter, or more likely tell the water company that you might
have done so. Less scrupulous people will try anything to save a buck and
will pull the meter and put in a piece of pipe to get water for free.
Note that if you are planning to remove the meter to do your valve
replacement you may want to contact the water company. They will take a
reading, want to put a tamper device back on afterwards.

The meter - Yup! That's what tells the water company how much you use.
Lots of hi-tech comments on what the coiled wire is, but since your meter
looks pretty much like mine, I'd bet you simply have a remote outside
reader. Follow the wire up the wall to where it exits the house and
probably somewhere near there on the outside you will see a small meter.
The meter reader still walks the neighborhood, but only has to read the
dials on this outside meter to tell your usage. However, these have been
know to get out of sync with the inside meter, so it is a good idea to
check them both occasionally and make sure the numbers match. A neighbor
of mine had a case where theirs was way out of sync in the water company's
favor and they got a $300 water bill.




"Aaron Fude" wrote in message
...
Hi,

This is related to the earlier post where I was asking about replacing
valves on my water supply line. Here's a picture of what that area
looks like:

http://freeboundaries.com/thing.jpg

I know what the #4 copper wire is for, but what the heck is that ugly
devide in middle for and can I cut it out?

Many thanks in advance,

Aaron

"Mark" wrote in message
...
Arron, You've had a lot of comments and suggestions already. Here is a
description of the parts in your picture. Starting from the left:

The valve - that is apparently what you are planning to replace. Any
reason? It doesn't appear to be leaking and seams fairly new. Is it a
case that it doesn't shut off completely?

Ground wire / clamp - In older homes (as mine is) they use to ground the
entire electric system to the cold water supply. Look for this: somewhere
near your electric panel is there a similar wire coming out of the panel
and connecting to a cold water pipe? If so, that is the main ground for
your electric. That's not code today, but may be "grandfathered" in as
long as you don't upgrade the electric which would require you bring it up
to code. Regardless, as another poster has mentioned, it is also necessary
to ground the plumbing system. It should connect on the other side of the
meter. It was mentioned that this was in case the meter was removed, but
it is also necessary in many cases, and yours looks to be one of them, the
meter is largely plastic and therefore doesn't provide an adequate ground.

The Blue cap - that is a tamper device intended to prevent you from
removing the meter, or more likely tell the water company that you might
have done so. Less scrupulous people will try anything to save a buck and
will pull the meter and put in a piece of pipe to get water for free.
Note that if you are planning to remove the meter to do your valve
replacement you may want to contact the water company. They will take a
reading, want to put a tamper device back on afterwards.

The meter - Yup! That's what tells the water company how much you use.
Lots of hi-tech comments on what the coiled wire is, but since your meter
looks pretty much like mine, I'd bet you simply have a remote outside
reader. Follow the wire up the wall to where it exits the house and
probably somewhere near there on the outside you will see a small meter.
The meter reader still walks the neighborhood, but only has to read the
dials on this outside meter to tell your usage. However, these have been
know to get out of sync with the inside meter, so it is a good idea to
check them both occasionally and make sure the numbers match. A neighbor
of mine had a case where theirs was way out of sync in the water company's
favor and they got a $300 water bill.




"Aaron Fude" wrote in message
...
Hi,

This is related to the earlier post where I was asking about replacing
valves on my water supply line. Here's a picture of what that area
looks like:

http://freeboundaries.com/thing.jpg

I know what the #4 copper wire is for, but what the heck is that ugly
devide in middle for and can I cut it out?

Many thanks in advance,

Aaron


Any house, regardless of age, that has a metal water pipe feeding it, is
required to have that pipe as part of the grounding electrode system. A new
house will also be required to use at least one ground rod as part of the
same system. Interior water piping located more than five feet from the
point of entry are not allowed to be part of the grounding electrode system

On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 11:03:07 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:
AZ Nomad wrote:
On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 09:48:29 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:
Aaron Fude wrote:
On Dec 20, 11:18 am, zxcvbob wrote:
Aaron Fude wrote:
On Dec 20, 10:57 am, Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi,
This is related to the earlier post where I was asking about replacing
valves on my water supply line. Here's a picture of what that area
looks like:
http://freeboundaries.com/thing.jpg
I know what the #4 copper wire is for, but what the heck is that ugly
devide in middle for and can I cut it out?
Many thanks in advance,
Aaron
By "devide" I meant "device" in both instances.
That big ugly thing is the water meter.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Yes, that's the device I meant.

If the water meter is on the inside, how does the water company know
how much water I am using?
What's the curly wire going to it?
Is it in good shape or should I replace it?
Hi,
They read it remotely. In our area meter reader just drive by the house
to read it. I was told in the future it'll be read via sattelite.
Likewise natural gas meter is done same way.

Doubtful. Sattelite uplinks are expensive.
Hi,
Why not? think meter reader is cheap? It is all readsy. Just a matter of
implementing the feature. Even car dealers use sattelite for engine
diagostics and parts logistics. One of area drug store chain use
sattelite links too.

It is the uplink that isn't cheap.

Where's your cite that car dealers and drug store chains use sattelite uplinks?

AZ Nomad wrote:
On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 11:03:07 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:
AZ Nomad wrote:
On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 09:48:29 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:
Aaron Fude wrote:
On Dec 20, 11:18 am, zxcvbob wrote:
Aaron Fude wrote:
On Dec 20, 10:57 am, Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi,
This is related to the earlier post where I was asking about replacing
valves on my water supply line. Here's a picture of what that area
looks like:
http://freeboundaries.com/thing.jpg
I know what the #4 copper wire is for, but what the heck is that ugly
devide in middle for and can I cut it out?
Many thanks in advance,
Aaron
By "devide" I meant "device" in both instances.
That big ugly thing is the water meter.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Yes, that's the device I meant.

If the water meter is on the inside, how does the water company know
how much water I am using?
What's the curly wire going to it?
Is it in good shape or should I replace it?
Hi,
They read it remotely. In our area meter reader just drive by the house
to read it. I was told in the future it'll be read via sattelite.
Likewise natural gas meter is done same way.
Doubtful. Sattelite uplinks are expensive.
Hi,
Why not? think meter reader is cheap? It is all readsy. Just a matter of
implementing the feature. Even car dealers use sattelite for engine
diagostics and parts logistics. One of area drug store chain use
sattelite links too.

It is the uplink that isn't cheap.

Where's your cite that car dealers and drug store chains use sattelite uplinks?
Hi,
Every dealership has big dish on the rooftop. A tech just plug in tester
when s/he encounters toughie to solve alone. Central computer at HQ
takes over and tell the tech what to o. You mean your local dealers
don't have a dish or two on their roof top?

AZ Nomad wrote:
On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 11:03:07 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:
AZ Nomad wrote:
On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 09:48:29 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:
Aaron Fude wrote:
On Dec 20, 11:18 am, zxcvbob wrote:
Aaron Fude wrote:
On Dec 20, 10:57 am, Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi,
This is related to the earlier post where I was asking about replacing
valves on my water supply line. Here's a picture of what that area
looks like:
http://freeboundaries.com/thing.jpg
I know what the #4 copper wire is for, but what the heck is that ugly
devide in middle for and can I cut it out?
Many thanks in advance,
Aaron
By "devide" I meant "device" in both instances.
That big ugly thing is the water meter.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Yes, that's the device I meant.

If the water meter is on the inside, how does the water company know
how much water I am using?
What's the curly wire going to it?
Is it in good shape or should I replace it?
Hi,
They read it remotely. In our area meter reader just drive by the house
to read it. I was told in the future it'll be read via sattelite.
Likewise natural gas meter is done same way.
Doubtful. Sattelite uplinks are expensive.
Hi,
Why not? think meter reader is cheap? It is all readsy. Just a matter of
implementing the feature. Even car dealers use sattelite for engine
diagostics and parts logistics. One of area drug store chain use
sattelite links too.

It is the uplink that isn't cheap.

Where's your cite that car dealers and drug store chains use sattelite uplinks?

Whats with the citation demand? Just look around if you don't believe
him. They are pretty common because they can just plop them in at the
noted places (and others) and they only have to deal with one network
connectivity provider at all of their locations.

Steve Barker wrote:
just fyi, using copper supply line for a ground does indeed meet code as
long as there's at least 15 feet of copper outside the foundation. In fact,
in our jurisdiction, that is 'all' that is required. All the lines in our
town are required to be copper from the house to the meter.

s


"Mark" wrote in message
...
Arron, You've had a lot of comments and suggestions already. Here is a
description of the parts in your picture. Starting from the left:

The valve - that is apparently what you are planning to replace. Any
reason? It doesn't appear to be leaking and seams fairly new. Is it a
case that it doesn't shut off completely?

Ground wire / clamp - In older homes (as mine is) they use to ground the
entire electric system to the cold water supply. Look for this: somewhere
near your electric panel is there a similar wire coming out of the panel
and connecting to a cold water pipe? If so, that is the main ground for
your electric. That's not code today, but may be "grandfathered" in as
long as you don't upgrade the electric which would require you bring it up
to code. Regardless, as another poster has mentioned, it is also necessary
to ground the plumbing system. It should connect on the other side of the
meter. It was mentioned that this was in case the meter was removed, but
it is also necessary in many cases, and yours looks to be one of them, the
meter is largely plastic and therefore doesn't provide an adequate ground.

The Blue cap - that is a tamper device intended to prevent you from
removing the meter, or more likely tell the water company that you might
have done so. Less scrupulous people will try anything to save a buck and
will pull the meter and put in a piece of pipe to get water for free.
Note that if you are planning to remove the meter to do your valve
replacement you may want to contact the water company. They will take a
reading, want to put a tamper device back on afterwards.

The meter - Yup! That's what tells the water company how much you use.
Lots of hi-tech comments on what the coiled wire is, but since your meter
looks pretty much like mine, I'd bet you simply have a remote outside
reader. Follow the wire up the wall to where it exits the house and
probably somewhere near there on the outside you will see a small meter.
The meter reader still walks the neighborhood, but only has to read the
dials on this outside meter to tell your usage. However, these have been
know to get out of sync with the inside meter, so it is a good idea to
check them both occasionally and make sure the numbers match. A neighbor
of mine had a case where theirs was way out of sync in the water company's
favor and they got a $300 water bill.




"Aaron Fude" wrote in message
...
Hi,

This is related to the earlier post where I was asking about replacing
valves on my water supply line. Here's a picture of what that area
looks like:

http://freeboundaries.com/thing.jpg

I know what the #4 copper wire is for, but what the heck is that ugly
devide in middle for and can I cut it out?

Many thanks in advance,

Aaron


Sounds like your location might be pretty unique. The NEC has required
supplemental grounding electrodes for quite some time.

On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 16:46:13 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:
AZ Nomad wrote:
On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 11:03:07 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:
AZ Nomad wrote:
On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 09:48:29 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:
Aaron Fude wrote:
On Dec 20, 11:18 am, zxcvbob wrote:
Aaron Fude wrote:
On Dec 20, 10:57 am, Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi,
This is related to the earlier post where I was asking about replacing
valves on my water supply line. Here's a picture of what that area
looks like:
http://freeboundaries.com/thing.jpg
I know what the #4 copper wire is for, but what the heck is that ugly
devide in middle for and can I cut it out?
Many thanks in advance,
Aaron
By "devide" I meant "device" in both instances.
That big ugly thing is the water meter.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Yes, that's the device I meant.

If the water meter is on the inside, how does the water company know
how much water I am using?
What's the curly wire going to it?
Is it in good shape or should I replace it?
Hi,
They read it remotely. In our area meter reader just drive by the house
to read it. I was told in the future it'll be read via sattelite.
Likewise natural gas meter is done same way.
Doubtful. Sattelite uplinks are expensive.
Hi,
Why not? think meter reader is cheap? It is all readsy. Just a matter of
implementing the feature. Even car dealers use sattelite for engine
diagostics and parts logistics. One of area drug store chain use
sattelite links too.

It is the uplink that isn't cheap.

Where's your cite that car dealers and drug store chains use sattelite uplinks?
Hi,
Every dealership has big dish on the rooftop. A tech just plug in tester
when s/he encounters toughie to solve alone. Central computer at HQ
takes over and tell the tech what to o. You mean your local dealers
don't have a dish or two on their roof top?

Seeing a dish doesn't mean that they use an uplink.

It seems silly putting up with a 5 second lag and twenty times the cost when
a city is wired for DSL.

Any cite outside of hearsay and the fact that you've seen parabolic reflectors?

"Tony Hwang" wrote in message
...
They read it remotely. In our area meter reader just drive by the house
to read it. I was told in the future it'll be read via sattelite.

About a year ago my city's utility office called me to say my water meter
had been running for over 24 consecutive hours, and that I should look for a
leak or other problem. It turned out that my toilet had been running, so
slowly that I couldn't hear it. How's that for service!

AZ Nomad wrote:
On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 16:46:13 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:
AZ Nomad wrote:
On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 11:03:07 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:
AZ Nomad wrote:
On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 09:48:29 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:
Aaron Fude wrote:
On Dec 20, 11:18 am, zxcvbob wrote:
Aaron Fude wrote:
On Dec 20, 10:57 am, Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi,
This is related to the earlier post where I was asking about replacing
valves on my water supply line. Here's a picture of what that area
looks like:
http://freeboundaries.com/thing.jpg
I know what the #4 copper wire is for, but what the heck is that ugly
devide in middle for and can I cut it out?
Many thanks in advance,
Aaron
By "devide" I meant "device" in both instances.
That big ugly thing is the water meter.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Yes, that's the device I meant.

If the water meter is on the inside, how does the water company know
how much water I am using?
What's the curly wire going to it?
Is it in good shape or should I replace it?
Hi,
They read it remotely. In our area meter reader just drive by the house
to read it. I was told in the future it'll be read via sattelite.
Likewise natural gas meter is done same way.
Doubtful. Sattelite uplinks are expensive.
Hi,
Why not? think meter reader is cheap? It is all readsy. Just a matter of
implementing the feature. Even car dealers use sattelite for engine
diagostics and parts logistics. One of area drug store chain use
sattelite links too.
It is the uplink that isn't cheap.

Where's your cite that car dealers and drug store chains use sattelite uplinks?
Hi,
Every dealership has big dish on the rooftop. A tech just plug in tester
when s/he encounters toughie to solve alone. Central computer at HQ
takes over and tell the tech what to o. You mean your local dealers
don't have a dish or two on their roof top?

Seeing a dish doesn't mean that they use an uplink.

It seems silly putting up with a 5 second lag and twenty times the cost when
a city is wired for DSL.

Any cite outside of hearsay and the fact that you've seen parabolic reflectors?
Hmmm,
I am the one who deployed the system. Please don't try to argue with me.

On Dec 20, 9:21*pm, "PanHandler" wrote:
"Tony Hwang" wrote in message

...

They read it remotely. In our area meter reader just drive by the house
to read it. I was told in the future it'll be read via sattelite.

About a year ago my city's utility office called me to say my water meter
had been running for over 24 consecutive hours, and that I should look for a
leak or other problem. It turned out that my toilet had been running, so
slowly that I couldn't hear it. How's that for service!

Basic question. The OP mentions that there is another shut off valve
in the incoming service not pictured.

If so why not shut off the water; remove the 'guts' of the valve on
the left (which looks like a standard multi turn shut-off of 20+ year
vintage; and take it along to a hardware/building supply store and buy
an exact replacement 'cartridge'. Probably around $5?
There are several shut offs wthin this house (now 38 years old) that
need similar replacement of their 'guts'. Here, it's mainly a matter
of getting around to doing it.Thanks for the reminder; I'll put it on
the list!
If total replacement of the valve on the left IS necessary strongly
recommend a quarter turn ball valve.

they are there, but not for that reason.

s


"Tony Hwang" wrote in message
...

Hi,
Every dealership has big dish on the rooftop. A tech just plug in tester
when s/he encounters toughie to solve alone. Central computer at HQ takes
over and tell the tech what to o. You mean your local dealers don't have a
dish or two on their roof top?

ACTUALLY they don't. Read it closer.

s


"George" wrote in message
...
Steve Barker wrote:
just fyi, using copper supply line for a ground does indeed meet code as
long as there's at least 15 feet of copper outside the foundation. In
fact, in our jurisdiction, that is 'all' that is required. All the lines
in our town are required to be copper from the house to the meter.

s


"Mark" wrote in message
...
Arron, You've had a lot of comments and suggestions already. Here is a
description of the parts in your picture. Starting from the left:

The valve - that is apparently what you are planning to replace. Any
reason? It doesn't appear to be leaking and seams fairly new. Is it a
case that it doesn't shut off completely?

Ground wire / clamp - In older homes (as mine is) they use to ground the
entire electric system to the cold water supply. Look for this:
somewhere near your electric panel is there a similar wire coming out of
the panel and connecting to a cold water pipe? If so, that is the main
ground for your electric. That's not code today, but may be
"grandfathered" in as long as you don't upgrade the electric which would
require you bring it up to code. Regardless, as another poster has
mentioned, it is also necessary to ground the plumbing system. It
should connect on the other side of the meter. It was mentioned that
this was in case the meter was removed, but it is also necessary in many
cases, and yours looks to be one of them, the meter is largely plastic
and therefore doesn't provide an adequate ground.

The Blue cap - that is a tamper device intended to prevent you from
removing the meter, or more likely tell the water company that you might
have done so. Less scrupulous people will try anything to save a buck
and will pull the meter and put in a piece of pipe to get water for
free. Note that if you are planning to remove the meter to do your valve
replacement you may want to contact the water company. They will take a
reading, want to put a tamper device back on afterwards.

The meter - Yup! That's what tells the water company how much you use.
Lots of hi-tech comments on what the coiled wire is, but since your
meter looks pretty much like mine, I'd bet you simply have a remote
outside reader. Follow the wire up the wall to where it exits the house
and probably somewhere near there on the outside you will see a small
meter. The meter reader still walks the neighborhood, but only has to
read the dials on this outside meter to tell your usage. However, these
have been know to get out of sync with the inside meter, so it is a good
idea to check them both occasionally and make sure the numbers match.
A neighbor of mine had a case where theirs was way out of sync in the
water company's favor and they got a $300 water bill.




"Aaron Fude" wrote in message
...
Hi,

This is related to the earlier post where I was asking about replacing
valves on my water supply line. Here's a picture of what that area
looks like:

http://freeboundaries.com/thing.jpg

I know what the #4 copper wire is for, but what the heck is that ugly
devide in middle for and can I cut it out?

Many thanks in advance,

Aaron


Sounds like your location might be pretty unique. The NEC has required
supplemental grounding electrodes for quite some time.

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
ACTUALLY they don't. Read it closer.

s


"George" wrote in message
...
Steve Barker wrote:
just fyi, using copper supply line for a ground does indeed meet code
as long as there's at least 15 feet of copper outside the foundation.
In fact, in our jurisdiction, that is 'all' that is required. All the
lines in our town are required to be copper from the house to the meter.

s


"Mark" wrote in message
...
Arron, You've had a lot of comments and suggestions already. Here is
a description of the parts in your picture. Starting from the left:

The valve - that is apparently what you are planning to replace. Any
reason? It doesn't appear to be leaking and seams fairly new. Is it a
case that it doesn't shut off completely?

Ground wire / clamp - In older homes (as mine is) they use to ground
the entire electric system to the cold water supply. Look for this:
somewhere near your electric panel is there a similar wire coming out
of the panel and connecting to a cold water pipe? If so, that is the
main ground for your electric. That's not code today, but may be
"grandfathered" in as long as you don't upgrade the electric which
would require you bring it up to code. Regardless, as another poster
has mentioned, it is also necessary to ground the plumbing system. It
should connect on the other side of the meter. It was mentioned that
this was in case the meter was removed, but it is also necessary in
many cases, and yours looks to be one of them, the meter is largely
plastic and therefore doesn't provide an adequate ground.

The Blue cap - that is a tamper device intended to prevent you from
removing the meter, or more likely tell the water company that you
might have done so. Less scrupulous people will try anything to save a
buck and will pull the meter and put in a piece of pipe to get water
for free. Note that if you are planning to remove the meter to do your
valve replacement you may want to contact the water company. They will
take a reading, want to put a tamper device back on afterwards.

The meter - Yup! That's what tells the water company how much you use.
Lots of hi-tech comments on what the coiled wire is, but since your
meter looks pretty much like mine, I'd bet you simply have a remote
outside reader. Follow the wire up the wall to where it exits the
house and probably somewhere near there on the outside you will see a
small meter. The meter reader still walks the neighborhood, but only
has to read the dials on this outside meter to tell your usage.
However, these have been know to get out of sync with the inside meter,
so it is a good idea to check them both occasionally and make sure the
numbers match. A neighbor of mine had a case where theirs was way out
of sync in the water company's favor and they got a $300 water bill.




"Aaron Fude" wrote in message
...
Hi,

This is related to the earlier post where I was asking about replacing
valves on my water supply line. Here's a picture of what that area
looks like:

http://freeboundaries.com/thing.jpg

I know what the #4 copper wire is for, but what the heck is that ugly
devide in middle for and can I cut it out?

Many thanks in advance,

Aaron


Sounds like your location might be pretty unique. The NEC has required
supplemental grounding electrodes for quite some time.

NEC 250.53 Requires a supplemental electrode for an underground water
pipe

Aaron Fude wrote in
:

On Dec 20, 11:18*am, zxcvbob wrote:
Aaron Fude wrote:
On Dec 20, 10:57 am, Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi,

This is related to the earlier post where I was asking about
replacing valves on my water supply line. Here's a picture of what
that area looks like:

http://freeboundaries.com/thing.jpg

I know what the #4 copper wire is for, but what the heck is that
ugly devide in middle for and can I cut it out?

Many thanks in advance,

Aaron

By "devide" I meant "device" in both instances.

That big ugly thing is the water meter.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, that's the device I meant.

If the water meter is on the inside, how does the water company know
how much water I am using?
What's the curly wire going to it?

If you look outside around your house you may find a small box with an
"odometer" attached someplace. That's what's at the other end of the
curly wire for reading the meter externally.

Is it in good shape or should I replace it?

On Dec 20, 7:49*pm, terry wrote:
On Dec 20, 9:21*pm, "PanHandler" wrote:

"Tony Hwang" wrote in message

...

They read it remotely. In our area meter reader just drive by the house
to read it. I was told in the future it'll be read via sattelite.

About a year ago my city's utility office called me to say my water meter
had been running for over 24 consecutive hours, and that I should look for a
leak or other problem. It turned out that my toilet had been running, so
slowly that I couldn't hear it. How's that for service!

Basic question. The OP mentions that there is another shut off valve
in the incoming service not pictured.

If so why not shut off the water; remove the 'guts' of the valve on
the left (which looks like a standard multi turn shut-off of 20+ year
vintage; and take it along to a hardware/building supply store and buy
an exact replacement 'cartridge'. Probably around $5?
There are several shut offs wthin this house (now 38 years old) that
need similar replacement of their 'guts'. Here, it's mainly a matter
of getting around to doing it.Thanks for the reminder; I'll put it on
the list!
If total replacement of the valve on the left IS necessary strongly
recommend a quarter turn ball valve.

For two reasons. Because the other valve is downstream and because
they both don't shut of completely.

Steve Barker wrote:
ACTUALLY they don't. Read it closer.

s


"George" wrote in message
...
Steve Barker wrote:
just fyi, using copper supply line for a ground does indeed meet code as
long as there's at least 15 feet of copper outside the foundation. In
fact, in our jurisdiction, that is 'all' that is required. All the lines
in our town are required to be copper from the house to the meter.

s


"Mark" wrote in message
...
Arron, You've had a lot of comments and suggestions already. Here is a
description of the parts in your picture. Starting from the left:

The valve - that is apparently what you are planning to replace. Any
reason? It doesn't appear to be leaking and seams fairly new. Is it a
case that it doesn't shut off completely?

Ground wire / clamp - In older homes (as mine is) they use to ground the
entire electric system to the cold water supply. Look for this:
somewhere near your electric panel is there a similar wire coming out of
the panel and connecting to a cold water pipe? If so, that is the main
ground for your electric. That's not code today, but may be
"grandfathered" in as long as you don't upgrade the electric which would
require you bring it up to code. Regardless, as another poster has
mentioned, it is also necessary to ground the plumbing system. It
should connect on the other side of the meter. It was mentioned that
this was in case the meter was removed, but it is also necessary in many
cases, and yours looks to be one of them, the meter is largely plastic
and therefore doesn't provide an adequate ground.

The Blue cap - that is a tamper device intended to prevent you from
removing the meter, or more likely tell the water company that you might
have done so. Less scrupulous people will try anything to save a buck
and will pull the meter and put in a piece of pipe to get water for
free. Note that if you are planning to remove the meter to do your valve
replacement you may want to contact the water company. They will take a
reading, want to put a tamper device back on afterwards.

The meter - Yup! That's what tells the water company how much you use.
Lots of hi-tech comments on what the coiled wire is, but since your
meter looks pretty much like mine, I'd bet you simply have a remote
outside reader. Follow the wire up the wall to where it exits the house
and probably somewhere near there on the outside you will see a small
meter. The meter reader still walks the neighborhood, but only has to
read the dials on this outside meter to tell your usage. However, these
have been know to get out of sync with the inside meter, so it is a good
idea to check them both occasionally and make sure the numbers match.
A neighbor of mine had a case where theirs was way out of sync in the
water company's favor and they got a $300 water bill.




"Aaron Fude" wrote in message
...
Hi,

This is related to the earlier post where I was asking about replacing
valves on my water supply line. Here's a picture of what that area
looks like:

http://freeboundaries.com/thing.jpg

I know what the #4 copper wire is for, but what the heck is that ugly
devide in middle for and can I cut it out?

Many thanks in advance,

Aaron

Sounds like your location might be pretty unique. The NEC has required
supplemental grounding electrodes for quite some time.


The NEC specifically requires a supplemental grounding electrode. There
is no other part of the code that waives that requirement.

Section 250.53(D)3) is clear, concise, specific and without ambiguity in
this phrase:

"...a metal underground water pipe is required to be supplemented by an
additional electrode of the type specified in 250.52(A)2)..."

On Dec 21, 12:23*am, Aaron Fude wrote:
On Dec 20, 7:49*pm, terry wrote:



On Dec 20, 9:21*pm, "PanHandler" wrote:

"Tony Hwang" wrote in message

...

They read it remotely. In our area meter reader just drive by the house
to read it. I was told in the future it'll be read via sattelite.

About a year ago my city's utility office called me to say my water meter
had been running for over 24 consecutive hours, and that I should look for a
leak or other problem. It turned out that my toilet had been running, so
slowly that I couldn't hear it. How's that for service!

Basic question. The OP mentions that there is another shut off valve
in the incoming service not pictured.

If so why not shut off the water; remove the 'guts' of the valve on
the left (which looks like a standard multi turn shut-off of 20+ year
vintage; and take it along to a hardware/building supply store and buy
an exact replacement 'cartridge'. Probably around $5?
There are several shut offs wthin this house (now 38 years old) that
need similar replacement of their 'guts'. Here, it's mainly a matter
of getting around to doing it.Thanks for the reminder; I'll put it on
the list!
If total replacement of the valve on the left IS necessary strongly
recommend a quarter turn ball valve.

For two reasons. Because the other valve is downstream and because
they both don't shut of completely.

There should then be a "curb box" or "street shut off" that can be
turned off. You might need a special wrench to get at it. Where I
am, the bolt has a pentagon head, and then you would need a "street
key" to turn it off. Depending on your climate, that might be 5-8'
long. Not really the kind of thing you want to buy to use once. The
pentagon wrench and street key that I own cost around $50 for the
pair. Your local water utility might be willing to come out and turn
it off for you, then back on again once you are done repairing /
replacing the valves.

JK