I'm thinking of going to solar to offset high PG&E cost. We went to home show and talked to a few solar contractors . But I would like to hear from people that actually have solar. I just know the basic and the amount of panels they can install has a lot to do with your savings.

"Sac Dave" wrote in message
...
I'm thinking of going to solar to offset high PG&E cost. We went to home
show and talked to a few solar contractors . But I would like to hear from
people that actually have solar. I just know the basic and the amount of
panels they can install has a lot to do with your savings.

*******************************************

Check here for some information
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

"Sac Dave" wrote in message
...
I'm thinking of going to solar to offset high PG&E cost. We went to home show
and talked to a few solar contractors . But I would like to hear from people
that actually have solar. I just know the basic and the amount of panels they
can install has a lot to do with your savings.

************************************************** *************

Are you talking solar electric or solar thermal?

"Bob F" wrote in message
...

"Sac Dave" wrote in message
...
I'm thinking of going to solar to offset high PG&E cost. We went to home
show and talked to a few solar contractors . But I would like to hear from
people that actually have solar. I just know the basic and the amount of
panels they can install has a lot to do with your savings.

************************************************** *************


I'm talking about eclectic. Our monthly bill is $600. (bill is based on
yearly cost) so if we can save it would help . But it's a balancing act,
power bill compared to financing solar. One of the local solar Co. is
offering a home tour of customers wear they answer the questions that might
be interesting. I'm in Sacramento Ca. PG&E (pacific gas & electric) is
extremely high. A comparable house with Rossville power or Smud would pay
about $200. Also my house has light switches that are child proof children
18 and under can not turn them off.

On Sep 29, 9:51*pm, "Sac Dave" wrote:
"Bob F" wrote in message

...



"Sac Dave" wrote in message
.. .
I'm thinking of *going to solar to offset high PG&E cost. *We went to home
show and talked to a few solar contractors . But I would like to hear from
people that actually have solar. I just know the basic and the amount of
panels they can install has a lot to do with your savings.

************************************************** *************

*I'm talking about eclectic. Our monthly bill is $600. *(bill is based on
yearly cost) *so if we can save it would help . But it's a balancing act,
power bill compared to financing solar. One of the local solar Co. is
offering a home tour of customers wear they answer the questions that might
be interesting. *I'm in Sacramento Ca. PG&E (pacific gas & electric) is
extremely high. A comparable house with Rossville power or Smud *would pay
about $200. Also my house has light switches that are child proof *children
18 and under can not turn them off.

How do you spend 600 a month, why do you have light switches kids can
turn off. I pay less than 1/10th what you pay, you need to learn where
you are wasting it and put your money there first to reduse you costs,
to cut 400 a month might cost you 50- 80000 in solar equipment. The
first thing anybody wanting to convert has to do is to lower your bill
as much as possible through upgrades.

"ransley" wrote in message
...
On Sep 29, 9:51 pm, "Sac Dave" wrote:
"Bob F" wrote in message

...



"Sac Dave" wrote in message
.. .
I'm thinking of going to solar to offset high PG&E cost. We went to home
show and talked to a few solar contractors . But I would like to hear
from
people that actually have solar. I just know the basic and the amount of
panels they can install has a lot to do with your savings.

************************************************** *************

I'm talking about eclectic. Our monthly bill is $600. (bill is based on
yearly cost) so if we can save it would help . But it's a balancing act,
power bill compared to financing solar. One of the local solar Co. is
offering a home tour of customers wear they answer the questions that
might
be interesting. I'm in Sacramento Ca. PG&E (pacific gas & electric) is
extremely high. A comparable house with Rossville power or Smud would pay
about $200. Also my house has light switches that are child proof children
18 and under can not turn them off.

How do you spend 600 a month, why do you have light switches kids can
turn off. I pay less than 1/10th what you pay, you need to learn where
you are wasting it and put your money there first to reduse you costs,
to cut 400 a month might cost you 50- 80000 in solar equipment. The
first thing anybody wanting to convert has to do is to lower your bill
as much as possible through upgrades.

I have a large house 2800 sq ft 3 levels summer in Sacramento is HOT AC is
a must then throw in a pool. full wood shop in the garage. I pay about what
my neighbors do.

On Sep 29, 11:44*pm, "Sac Dave" wrote:
"ransley" wrote in message

...
On Sep 29, 9:51 pm, "Sac Dave" wrote:





"Bob F" wrote in message

...

"Sac Dave" wrote in message
.. .
I'm thinking of going to solar to offset high PG&E cost. We went to home
show and talked to a few solar contractors . But I would like to hear
from
people that actually have solar. I just know the basic and the amount of
panels they can install has a lot to do with your savings.

************************************************** *************

I'm talking about eclectic. Our monthly bill is $600. (bill is based on
yearly cost) so if we can save it would help . But it's a balancing act,
power bill compared to financing solar. One of the local solar Co. is
offering a home tour of customers wear they answer the questions that
might
be interesting. I'm in Sacramento Ca. PG&E (pacific gas & electric) is
extremely high. A comparable house with Rossville power or Smud would pay
about $200. Also my house has light switches that are child proof children
18 and under can not turn them off.

How do you spend 600 a month, why do you have light switches kids can
turn off. I pay less than 1/10th what you pay, you need to learn where
you are wasting it and put your money there first to reduse you costs,
to cut 400 a month might cost you 50- 80000 in solar equipment. The
first thing anybody wanting to convert has to do is to lower your bill
as much as possible through upgrades.

*I have a large house 2800 sq ft 3 levels summer in Sacramento is HOT *AC is
a must then throw in a pool. full wood shop in the garage. I pay about what
my neighbors do.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you have the money to consider solar then first consider Loewen
and Alpen window glass, they are up to R7 with designs to reflect a
major portion of solar radiation and give low SHG. A 19.5 Seer VSDC,
AC and modern up to date insulation would be a next step. Pools and HW
can be at least partialy heated cheaply [compared to Photovoltaic]
with solar water panels. alt.energy.hompower is where you will find
off grid folks. You realy need a complete energy audit first, your
usage is excessive to go solar cells.

"Sac Dave" wrote in message ...
I'm thinking of going to solar to offset high PG&E cost. We went to home show and talked to a few solar contractors . But I would like to hear from people that actually have solar. I just know the basic and the amount of panels they can install has a lot to do with your savings.


Unless your state has some good incentive programs (I think that California does) installing solar electric may not be cost effective. You want to get a payback within a few years. Keep in mind that you will only get a benefit during daylight hours unless you add batteries which can increase the cost tremendously.

Be careful of companies trying to sell solar. Remember that is how they make money. You will need to consider the long term benefits and the maintenance. What happens when a panel dies? Who will replace it after five years? How long have the installers and manufacturers been in business? Ask about the life expectancy of the system.

As others have suggested, installing insulation and reducing power consumption will give faster paybacks.

On Sep 30, 7:50*am, "John Grabowski" wrote:
* "Sac Dave" wrote in om...
* I'm thinking of *going to solar to offset high PG&E cost. *We went to home show and talked to a few solar contractors . But I would like to hear from people that actually have solar. I just know the basic and the amount of panels they can install has a lot to do with your savings.

* Unless your state has some good incentive programs (I think that California does) installing solar electric may not be cost effective. *You want to get a payback within a few years. *Keep in mind that you will only get a benefit during daylight hours unless you add batteries which can increase the cost tremendously.

* Be careful of companies trying to sell solar. Remember that is how they make money. *You will need to consider the long term benefits and the maintenance. *What happens when a panel dies? *Who will replace it after five years? *How long have the installers and manufacturers been in business? *Ask about the life expectancy of the system.

* As others have suggested, installing insulation and reducing power consumption will give faster paybacks.

I do not believe that anywhere in the US it is possible to get a
payback of less than maybe 20 years with incentives, its more like 30
years, the panels life. Thats why few do it. This guy spends 600 a
month, it was near 90 hear this summer, I have a much larger house and
only spent 180 on electric and now will spend near 40 month, he
wastes electricity.

On Sep 29, 9:21*pm, "Sac Dave" wrote:
I'm thinking of *going to solar to offset high PG&E cost. *We went to home show and talked to a few solar contractors . But I would like to hear from people that actually have solar. I just know the basic and the amount of panels they can install has a lot to do with your savings.

It is tough to make solar pay. From what you have said, I suspect
that you are not going to make it pay. If the current cost per unit
if energy is very high, then it might. I would suggest that you
should ask any potential installer provide you with their calculations
that show it would be a good investment. You want to see the total
cost of the install, and the expected reduction in units of energy
purchased as a result of the install and the cost of those saved units
of energy. Demand real numbers and if you don't really understand
them, find someone who does and who will be able to show you why the
contractor may be fudging the numbers.

There are cases where it is a good economic choice, but those are
few in number.

You should factor in two additional considerations. Maintenance,
repair and replacement of the solar system and the value to you
knowing you could have a smaller carbon footprint. Right now it seems
you have very large feet.

I would guess that if I would to trade homes with you, my energy
use at your current home will drop more than you might save with the
solar system.

Good Luck

ransley wrote:
On Sep 30, 7:50 am, "John Grabowski" wrote:
"Sac Dave" wrote in om...
I'm thinking of going to solar to offset high PG&E cost. We went to home show and talked to a few solar contractors . But I would like to hear from people that actually have solar. I just know the basic and the amount of panels they can install has a lot to do with your savings.

Unless your state has some good incentive programs (I think that California does) installing solar electric may not be cost effective. You want to get a payback within a few years. Keep in mind that you will only get a benefit during daylight hours unless you add batteries which can increase the cost tremendously.

Be careful of companies trying to sell solar. Remember that is how they make money. You will need to consider the long term benefits and the maintenance. What happens when a panel dies? Who will replace it after five years? How long have the installers and manufacturers been in business? Ask about the life expectancy of the system.

As others have suggested, installing insulation and reducing power consumption will give faster paybacks.

I do not believe that anywhere in the US it is possible to get a
payback of less than maybe 20 years with incentives, its more like 30
years, the panels life. Thats why few do it. This guy spends 600 a
month, it was near 90 hear this summer, I have a much larger house and
only spent 180 on electric and now will spend near 40 month, he
wastes electricity.

Someone putting solar in here said payback was about 30 years. I'd be
leary myself as I've never had a home appliance last that long without
replacement.

My house is also large and electric cost much less but out in the land
of the fruits and the nuts, I believe energy cost is much higher, so
maybe payback is worth it.

On Sep 29, 11:44*pm, "Sac Dave" wrote:
"ransley" wrote in message

...
On Sep 29, 9:51 pm, "Sac Dave" wrote:





"Bob F" wrote in message

...

"Sac Dave" wrote in message
.. .
I'm thinking of going to solar to offset high PG&E cost. We went to home
show and talked to a few solar contractors . But I would like to hear
from
people that actually have solar. I just know the basic and the amount of
panels they can install has a lot to do with your savings.

************************************************** *************

I'm talking about eclectic. Our monthly bill is $600. (bill is based on
yearly cost) so if we can save it would help . But it's a balancing act,
power bill compared to financing solar. One of the local solar Co. is
offering a home tour of customers wear they answer the questions that
might
be interesting. I'm in Sacramento Ca. PG&E (pacific gas & electric) is
extremely high. A comparable house with Rossville power or Smud would pay
about $200. Also my house has light switches that are child proof children
18 and under can not turn them off.

How do you spend 600 a month, why do you have light switches kids can
turn off. I pay less than 1/10th what you pay, you need to learn where
you are wasting it and put your money there first to reduse you costs,
to cut 400 a month might cost you 50- 80000 in solar equipment. The
first thing anybody wanting to convert has to do is to lower your bill
as much as possible through upgrades.

*I have a large house 2800 sq ft 3 levels summer in Sacramento is HOT *AC is
a must then throw in a pool. full wood shop in the garage. I pay about what
my neighbors do.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Only an energy audit will tell you if the neighborhood is wasting
energy, unless everything is up to modern standards, codes are
minimums

Sac Dave wrote:
I'm thinking of going to solar to offset high PG&E cost. We went to
home show and talked to a few solar contractors . But I would like to
hear from people that actually have solar. I just know the basic and the
amount of panels they can install has a lot to do with your savings.

I am not in California and don't have solar, but judging from the
experience of one of my friends who bought a house with a pre-existing
solar system in northern California, going solar is at best a wash.

He mentioned that the cost to replace some of his panels was so high
that he decided to go back to the grid.

Unless the house is built with energy efficiency in mind solar won't be
much help, IMO.

As others suggested you could be better off finding out where you use
too much energy and taking action. I have a smaller place, about 2000
sqft in SO Texas and have lowered my electric bill from $350 to $220
per month with a few targeted and inexpensive changes, and there is
still room for improvement.

"ransley" wrote in message
...
On Sep 30, 7:50 am, "John Grabowski" wrote:
"Sac Dave" wrote in
om...
I'm thinking of going to solar to offset high PG&E cost. We went to home
show and talked to a few solar contractors . But I would like to hear from
people that actually have solar. I just know the basic and the amount of
panels they can install has a lot to do with your savings.

Unless your state has some good incentive programs (I think that
California does) installing solar electric may not be cost effective. You
want to get a payback within a few years. Keep in mind that you will only
get a benefit during daylight hours unless you add batteries which can
increase the cost tremendously.

Be careful of companies trying to sell solar. Remember that is how they
make money. You will need to consider the long term benefits and the
maintenance. What happens when a panel dies? Who will replace it after
five years? How long have the installers and manufacturers been in
business? Ask about the life expectancy of the system.

As others have suggested, installing insulation and reducing power
consumption will give faster paybacks.

I do not believe that anywhere in the US it is possible to get a
payback of less than maybe 20 years with incentives, its more like 30
years, the panels life. Thats why few do it. This guy spends 600 a
month, it was near 90 hear this summer, I have a much larger house and
only spent 180 on electric and now will spend near 40 month, he
wastes electricity.

All power Co. do not charge the same PG&E is extremely high. I don't waste
electricity. were do you live ? who supply's your power? Ho many kids do you
have living at home? Do you run a pool pump 8 hours a day? Like I said I'm
getting screwed by PG&E 5 miles away with a deferent power CO. I'd pay
$250 on a bad month.

"Chris" wrote in message ...
Sac Dave wrote:
I'm thinking of going to solar to offset high PG&E cost. We went to
home show and talked to a few solar contractors . But I would like to
hear from people that actually have solar. I just know the basic and the
amount of panels they can install has a lot to do with your savings.

I am not in California and don't have solar, but judging from the
experience of one of my friends who bought a house with a pre-existing
solar system in northern California, going solar is at best a wash.

He mentioned that the cost to replace some of his panels was so high that
he decided to go back to the grid.

Unless the house is built with energy efficiency in mind solar won't be
much help, IMO.

As others suggested you could be better off finding out where you use too
much energy and taking action. I have a smaller place, about 2000 sqft in
SO Texas and have lowered my electric bill from $350 to $220 per month
with a few targeted and inexpensive changes, and there is still room for
improvement.

That's why I'm looking into solar as one option to consider. Also thinking
of upgrading AC unite (1991) My wife works for major AC & chiller CO. or
price cost & cash to the installer. My window are Dual pain, Walls are just
R-11. atic guessing R-30. My old house we did a PG&E energy audtit, Pretty
much common scence. I do see a lot of Solar Panels being installed The price
is going down lot of competition. Right there building a large Solar panel
plant in Sac.

On Sep 30, 6:15*pm, "Sac Dave" wrote:
"Chris" wrote in ...
Sac Dave wrote:
I'm thinking of *going to solar to offset high PG&E cost. *We went to
home show and talked to a few solar contractors . But I would like to
hear from people that actually have solar. I just know the basic and the
amount of panels they can install has a lot to do with your savings.

I am not in California and don't have solar, but judging from the
experience of one of my friends who bought a house with a pre-existing
solar system in *northern California, going solar is at best a wash.

He mentioned that the cost to replace some of his panels was so high that
he decided to go back to the grid.

Unless the house is built with energy efficiency in mind solar won't be
much help, IMO.

As others suggested you could be better off finding out where you use too
much energy and taking action. *I have a smaller place, about 2000 sqft in
SO Texas *and have lowered my electric bill from $350 to $220 per month
with a few targeted and inexpensive changes, and there is still room for
improvement.

*That's why I'm looking into solar as one option to consider. Also thinking
of upgrading AC unite *(1991) My wife works for major AC & chiller CO. or
price cost & cash to the installer. My window are Dual pain, Walls are just
R-11. atic guessing R-30. My old house we did a PG&E energy audtit, Pretty
much common scence. I do see a lot of Solar Panels being installed The price
is going down lot of competition. Right there building a large Solar panel
plant in Sac.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

91 is 10 seer, you can save 70%+++ on 19.5 seer. New friges are 70%
more efficent than maybe 80s units. Dual pane doesnt mean squat, its
all in solar heat gain SHG, R and U values, and more, a dual pane may
be R2 with high SHG , look at the window companies I pointed out R 7
and low SHG, if you have a few hundred thousand to do solar do what is
important first. Your attic, well I have R 100. I figure you could cut
70% off your electric if you tried. You do use CFLs right.

Sac Dave wrote:
"Chris" wrote in message ...
Sac Dave wrote:
I'm thinking of going to solar to offset high PG&E cost. We went to
home show and talked to a few solar contractors . But I would like to
hear from people that actually have solar. I just know the basic and the
amount of panels they can install has a lot to do with your savings.
I am not in California and don't have solar, but judging from the
experience of one of my friends who bought a house with a pre-existing
solar system in northern California, going solar is at best a wash.

He mentioned that the cost to replace some of his panels was so high that
he decided to go back to the grid.

Unless the house is built with energy efficiency in mind solar won't be
much help, IMO.

As others suggested you could be better off finding out where you use too
much energy and taking action. I have a smaller place, about 2000 sqft in
SO Texas and have lowered my electric bill from $350 to $220 per month
with a few targeted and inexpensive changes, and there is still room for
improvement.

That's why I'm looking into solar as one option to consider. Also thinking
of upgrading AC unite (1991) My wife works for major AC & chiller CO. or
price cost & cash to the installer. My window are Dual pain, Walls are just
R-11. atic guessing R-30. My old house we did a PG&E energy audtit, Pretty
much common scence. I do see a lot of Solar Panels being installed The price
is going down lot of competition. Right there building a large Solar panel
plant in Sac.


Solar -electric- point of use, probably won't be cost-effective any
time soon. The big moneymaker is passive solar, designed into the house.
South-facing window wall, Correctly-sized overhangs and plantings for
the part of the year when you want shade, heat mass storage, planned
airflow that can be altered to suit the season, yada yada yada. That
plus modern insulation and energy-efficient appliances and lighting
(including as much natural light as possible), can reduce the energy
requirements a lot cheaper than providing more grid or solar electricity
would cost.

--
aem sends...

On Sep 30, 11:57*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 01 Oct 2008 02:02:04 GMT, aemeijers wrote:
Solar -electric- point of use, probably won't be cost-effective any
time soon. The big moneymaker is passive solar, designed into the house.
South-facing window wall, Correctly-sized overhangs and plantings for
the part of the year when you want shade, heat mass storage, planned
airflow that can be altered to suit the season, yada yada yada. *That
plus modern insulation and energy-efficient appliances and lighting
(including as much natural light as possible), can reduce the energy
requirements a lot cheaper than providing more grid or solar electricity
would cost.

The big active winner is water heating, either the pool heater or the
domestic hot water.

I am amused this idiot who spends 600$ a month cant figure out he
needs to upgrade everything and thinks 600 month is normal I paid 38
last month in a harder area in a larger house

wrote:

Who says there has to be a cash ROI?

The OP: "I'm thinking of going to solar to offset high PG&E cost."

On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 16:01:21 -0700, "Sac Dave"
wrote:


"ransley" wrote in message
...
On Sep 30, 7:50 am, "John Grabowski" wrote:
"Sac Dave" wrote in
om...
I'm thinking of going to solar to offset high PG&E cost. We went to home
show and talked to a few solar contractors . But I would like to hear from
people that actually have solar. I just know the basic and the amount of
panels they can install has a lot to do with your savings.

Unless your state has some good incentive programs (I think that
California does) installing solar electric may not be cost effective. You
want to get a payback within a few years. Keep in mind that you will only
get a benefit during daylight hours unless you add batteries which can
increase the cost tremendously.

Be careful of companies trying to sell solar. Remember that is how they
make money. You will need to consider the long term benefits and the
maintenance. What happens when a panel dies? Who will replace it after
five years? How long have the installers and manufacturers been in
business? Ask about the life expectancy of the system.

As others have suggested, installing insulation and reducing power
consumption will give faster paybacks.

I do not believe that anywhere in the US it is possible to get a
payback of less than maybe 20 years with incentives, its more like 30
years, the panels life. Thats why few do it. This guy spends 600 a
month, it was near 90 hear this summer, I have a much larger house and
only spent 180 on electric and now will spend near 40 month, he
wastes electricity.

All power Co. do not charge the same PG&E is extremely high. I don't waste
electricity. were do you live ? who supply's your power? Ho many kids do you
have living at home? Do you run a pool pump 8 hours a day? Like I said I'm
getting screwed by PG&E 5 miles away with a deferent power CO. I'd pay
$250 on a bad month.


Who says there has to be a cash ROI? What's the ROI on a hot tub? A
vacation in Vegas? A membership at a nice club?

Some people simply like doing what they think is their small part to
maintain the place.

On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 23:24:39 -0700 (PDT), ransley
wrote:

On Sep 30, 11:57*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 01 Oct 2008 02:02:04 GMT, aemeijers wrote:
Solar -electric- point of use, probably won't be cost-effective any
time soon. The big moneymaker is passive solar, designed into the house.
South-facing window wall, Correctly-sized overhangs and plantings for
the part of the year when you want shade, heat mass storage, planned
airflow that can be altered to suit the season, yada yada yada. *That
plus modern insulation and energy-efficient appliances and lighting
(including as much natural light as possible), can reduce the energy
requirements a lot cheaper than providing more grid or solar electricity
would cost.

The big active winner is water heating, either the pool heater or the
domestic hot water.

I am amused this idiot who spends 600$ a month cant figure out he
needs to upgrade everything and thinks 600 month is normal I paid 38
last month in a harder area in a larger house

When Ransley is in a position to call someone an idiot, it's time for
them to pause and take stock...

On Oct 1, 7:00*am, wrote:
On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 23:24:39 -0700 (PDT), ransley





wrote:
On Sep 30, 11:57*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 01 Oct 2008 02:02:04 GMT, aemeijers wrote:
Solar -electric- point of use, probably won't be cost-effective any
time soon. The big moneymaker is passive solar, designed into the house.
South-facing window wall, Correctly-sized overhangs and plantings for
the part of the year when you want shade, heat mass storage, planned
airflow that can be altered to suit the season, yada yada yada. *That
plus modern insulation and energy-efficient appliances and lighting
(including as much natural light as possible), can reduce the energy
requirements a lot cheaper than providing more grid or solar electricity
would cost.

The big active winner is water heating, either the pool heater or the
domestic hot water.

I am amused this idiot who spends 600$ a *month cant figure out he
needs to upgrade everything and thinks 600 *month is normal I paid 38
last month in a harder area in a larger house

When Ransley is in a position to call someone an idiot, it's time for
them to pause and take stock...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


It would at least be a good idea to find out what the guy's cost per
KWH for electricity is. Otherwise, you're comparing apples and
oranges with a $600 electric bill, particularly since the poster said
a similar house in a community served by another electric company
would be $200.

wrote:

I live where electricity is very expensive, and a $600 bill would be
unusual in a house less than 5000 square feet.

For that matter, geo-thermal heating and cooling generally has a much
faster ROI than photovoltaic.

If all you are looking at is cost, you do the cheapest stuff first.
It's often the most effective, anyway.

Solar panels can be obtained very cheaply in some areas.

http://www.mydesert.com/apps/pbcs.dl...12/1026/news12

On Oct 1, 11:08*am, wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2008 08:33:44 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Oct 1, 7:00*am, wrote:
On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 23:24:39 -0700 (PDT), ransley

wrote:
On Sep 30, 11:57*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 01 Oct 2008 02:02:04 GMT, aemeijers wrote:
Solar -electric- point of use, probably won't be cost-effective any
time soon. The big moneymaker is passive solar, designed into the house.
South-facing window wall, Correctly-sized overhangs and plantings for
the part of the year when you want shade, heat mass storage, planned
airflow that can be altered to suit the season, yada yada yada. *That
plus modern insulation and energy-efficient appliances and lighting
(including as much natural light as possible), can reduce the energy
requirements a lot cheaper than providing more grid or solar electricity
would cost.

The big active winner is water heating, either the pool heater or the
domestic hot water.

I am amused this idiot who spends 600$ a *month cant figure out he
needs to upgrade everything and thinks 600 *month is normal I paid 38
last month in a harder area in a larger house

When Ransley is in a position to call someone an idiot, it's time for
them to pause and take stock...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It would at least be a good idea to find out what the guy's cost per
KWH for electricity is. * Otherwise, you're comparing apples and
oranges with a $600 electric bill, particularly since the poster said
a similar house in a community served by another electric company
would be $200.

It would be a better idea to understand that it makes far more sense
to do an energy audit before doing anything else. Installing Solar
Panels is far down the list. Pick the easy low hanging fruit first,
before reaching for the one or two apples that require a cherrypicker
to reach.

I live where electricity is very expensive, and a $600 bill would be
unusual in a house less than 5000 square feet.

For that matter, geo-thermal heating and cooling generally has a much
faster ROI than photovoltaic.

If all you are looking at is cost, you do the cheapest stuff first.
It's often the most effective, anyway.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

my neighbor leaves his outside lights on all day, im sure his bill is
600 a month, but mine is 600 a year and when its warm the AC is on, to
pay 7200 a year to me shows someone who doesnt care about money

Start with a solar water heating system. Best bang for your buck.

"Sac Dave" wrote in message
I'm thinking of going to solar to offset high PG&E cost. We went to home
show and talked to a few solar contractors . But I would like to hear from
people that actually have solar. I just know the basic and the amount of
panels they can install has a lot to do with your savings.

Well every body have they own opinion
Solar power???? I have attended seminar on Solar power when I confronted
manufacture reprisenetive how long for average home to recover investment
the
answer I got 15 to 18 years and that is no accounting on equipment failure
and
if that money was invested in CDs Solar power is good for those people
living
way out where is nothing better available.
So in my opinion it is lot of crap.
Sorry Tony


"Blattus Slafaly" wrote in message
...
Sac Dave wrote:
I'm thinking of going to solar to offset high PG&E cost. We went to
home show and talked to a few solar contractors . But I would like to
hear from people that actually have solar. I just know the basic and the
amount of panels they can install has a lot to do with your savings.

Depends on where you live. In the northeast the sun only shines 51% of
the year. Hard to recover your investment that way.



--
Blattus Slafaly ? 3 7/8

wrote:

On Sep 29, 9:21 pm, "Sac Dave" wrote:

I'm thinking of going to solar to offset high PG&E cost.
....


It is tough to make solar pay. From what you have said, I suspect
that you are not going to make it pay. If the current cost per unit
if energy is very high, then it might. I would suggest that you
should ask any potential installer provide you with their calculations
that show it would be a good investment. You want to see the total
cost of the install, and the expected reduction in units of energy
purchased as a result of the install and the cost of those saved units
of energy. Demand real numbers and if you don't really understand
them, find someone who does and who will be able to show you why the
contractor may be fudging the numbers.

There are cases where it is a good economic choice, but those are
few in number.


California (PG&E) has a progressive electric rate schedule: the more
you use the higher your marginal rates are. There are five "tiers".
The lowest rates are about 11 cents / KwH. The highest (tier five)
is about 36 cents / KwH. If he is paying $600 / month, he is clearly
well into tier five. At that marginal rate, solar panels can be
economical until they reduce your net consumption into a lower tier,
particularly in Sacramento, where there is a lot of sun.

However, I agree with the other posters: first find out why you are
using such an extraordinary amount of power. Fixing that would have
a much greater and faster pay back than solar panels.