RFI-EMI-GUY wrote:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/recal...8/squared.html

Thanks Joe.

Being paranoid, and since the source is not the CPSC, I looked at the
CPSC site and found the following recalls of apparently the same
counterfeit SquareD breakers:

5-2008
Specialty Lamp International of Deerfield Beach, Fla. (as above)
371,000 breakers
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml08/08286.html

12-2007
North American Breaker Co. Inc. (NABCO), of Burbank, Calif.
50,000 breakers
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml08/08151.html

10-2007
Connecticut Electric & Switch Mfg. Co. (Connecticut Electric), of
Puyallup, Wash
64,000 breakers
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml08/08054.html

11-2006
Scott Electric Co. Inc., of Greensburg, Pa
30,000 breakers
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml07/07036.html

Crossposted to alt.home.repair

--
bud--

"bud--" wrote in message
.. .
RFI-EMI-GUY wrote:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/recal...8/squared.html

Thanks Joe.

Being paranoid, and since the source is not the CPSC, I looked at the CPSC
site and found the following recalls of apparently the same counterfeit
SquareD breakers:

5-2008
Specialty Lamp International of Deerfield Beach, Fla. (as above)
371,000 breakers
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml08/08286.html

12-2007
North American Breaker Co. Inc. (NABCO), of Burbank, Calif.
50,000 breakers
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml08/08151.html

10-2007
Connecticut Electric & Switch Mfg. Co. (Connecticut Electric), of
Puyallup, Wash
64,000 breakers
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml08/08054.html

11-2006
Scott Electric Co. Inc., of Greensburg, Pa
30,000 breakers
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml07/07036.html

Crossposted to alt.home.repair

--
bud--

Bud, has there been any determination that these counterfeit, breakers are
not made to the same specs as any other QO?

RBM wrote:
....
Bud, has there been any determination that these counterfeit, breakers are
not made to the same specs as any other QO?

No non-counterfeit recalls are there?

--

"dpb" wrote in message ...
RBM wrote:
...
Bud, has there been any determination that these counterfeit, breakers
are not made to the same specs as any other QO?

No non-counterfeit recalls are there?

--I read that there weren't any incidents with the counterfeit breakers,
so I'm wondering if they are not in fact, the same

RBM wrote:
"dpb" wrote in message ...
RBM wrote:
...
Bud, has there been any determination that these counterfeit, breakers
are not made to the same specs as any other QO?
No non-counterfeit recalls are there?

--I read that there weren't any incidents with the counterfeit breakers,
so I'm wondering if they are not in fact, the same

Then how did they get a recall for failure to trip? If there were no
instances of failing to trip?

I can see making them retract them as counterfeits but that's not the
baliwick of CPSC; that would be a legal thingie as near as I can tell.

And, of course, they could well be "made to the same spec's" but that's
not _quite_ the same thing as performing to the same spec.

--

"dpb" wrote in message ...
RBM wrote:
"dpb" wrote in message ...
RBM wrote:
...
Bud, has there been any determination that these counterfeit, breakers
are not made to the same specs as any other QO?
No non-counterfeit recalls are there?

--I read that there weren't any incidents with the counterfeit breakers,
so I'm wondering if they are not in fact, the same

Then how did they get a recall for failure to trip? If there were no
instances of failing to trip?

I can see making them retract them as counterfeits but that's not the
baliwick of CPSC; that would be a legal thingie as near as I can tell.

And, of course, they could well be "made to the same spec's" but that's
not _quite_ the same thing as performing to the same spec.

OK, that's not what I heard. All I heard was that there were counterfeits
that were being recalled, once identified, but nothing about failing to trip

--

RBM wrote:
....

OK, that's not what I heard. All I heard was that there were counterfeits
that were being recalled, once identified, but nothing about failing to trip

I hadn't "heard" anything but that's the first sentence of the link in
the earlier posting...

--

"dpb" wrote in message ...
RBM wrote:
...

OK, that's not what I heard. All I heard was that there were counterfeits
that were being recalled, once identified, but nothing about failing to
trip

I hadn't "heard" anything but that's the first sentence of the link in the
earlier posting...

Sure, now you're telling me I should read the links!!! I saw this
yesterday, and as so much crap comes across my screen, I didn't pay too much
attention to it
--

RBM wrote:
"dpb" wrote in message ...
RBM wrote:
...

OK, that's not what I heard. All I heard was that there were counterfeits
that were being recalled, once identified, but nothing about failing to
trip
I hadn't "heard" anything but that's the first sentence of the link in the
earlier posting...

Sure, now you're telling me I should read the links!!! I saw this
yesterday, and as so much crap comes across my screen, I didn't pay too much
attention to it

Well, if you're going to pay enough attention to ask questions...

--

On May 29, 5:37�pm, dpb wrote:
RBM wrote:
"dpb" wrote in ...
RBM wrote:
...

OK, that's not what I heard. All I heard was that there were counterfeits
that were being recalled, once identified, but nothing about failing to
trip
I hadn't "heard" anything but that's the first sentence of the link in the
earlier posting...

Sure, now you're telling me I should read the links!!! � I saw this
yesterday, and as so much crap comes across my screen, I didn't pay too much
attention to it

Well, if you're going to pay enough attention to ask questions...

--

years ago I repaired machines at a westinghose electric swith gear
plant in beaver pa, very nice people.

one day i walked by as a explosion rocked the building, they were
testing a knock off breaker at rated load, and it exploded......

it was a big issue whoever made them marked them westinghouse,
although they werent the same quality..........

westinghose was being sued for a breaker they didnt manufacturer...

knockoffs arent a good thing

In article ,
"RBM" writes:

"dpb" wrote in message ...
RBM wrote:
"dpb" wrote in message ...
RBM wrote:
...
Bud, has there been any determination that these counterfeit, breakers
are not made to the same specs as any other QO?
No non-counterfeit recalls are there?

--I read that there weren't any incidents with the counterfeit breakers,
so I'm wondering if they are not in fact, the same

Then how did they get a recall for failure to trip? If there were no
instances of failing to trip?

I can see making them retract them as counterfeits but that's not the
baliwick of CPSC; that would be a legal thingie as near as I can tell.

And, of course, they could well be "made to the same spec's" but that's
not _quite_ the same thing as performing to the same spec.

OK, that's not what I heard. All I heard was that there were counterfeits
that were being recalled, once identified, but nothing about failing to trip

There have been warnings in the UK about counterfeits being found
in other parts of Europe (but not as yet in the UK, AFAIK). A picture
in a trade magazine shows one of them opened up. There are no overcurrent
parts inside, and the toggle is just a plain switch.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 5/30/2008 6:49 AM Andrew Gabriel spake thus:

In article ,
"RBM" writes:

"dpb" wrote in message ...

RBM wrote:

"dpb" wrote in message ...

RBM wrote:
...
Bud, has there been any determination that these counterfeit, breakers
are not made to the same specs as any other QO?
No non-counterfeit recalls are there?

--I read that there weren't any incidents with the counterfeit breakers,
so I'm wondering if they are not in fact, the same

Then how did they get a recall for failure to trip? If there were no
instances of failing to trip?

I can see making them retract them as counterfeits but that's not the
baliwick of CPSC; that would be a legal thingie as near as I can tell.

And, of course, they could well be "made to the same spec's" but that's
not _quite_ the same thing as performing to the same spec.

OK, that's not what I heard. All I heard was that there were counterfeits
that were being recalled, once identified, but nothing about failing to trip

There have been warnings in the UK about counterfeits being found
in other parts of Europe (but not as yet in the UK, AFAIK). A picture
in a trade magazine shows one of them opened up. There are no overcurrent
parts inside, and the toggle is just a plain switch.

So, a perverse thought crosses one's mind: would replacing one's
breakers with toggle switches be the equivalent of putting pennies in
fuse sockets in the olden days?


--
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute
conversation with the average voter.

- Attributed to Winston Churchill

In alt.engineering.electrical Andrew Gabriel wrote:
| In article ,
| "RBM" writes:
|
| "dpb" wrote in message ...
| RBM wrote:
| "dpb" wrote in message ...
| RBM wrote:
| ...
| Bud, has there been any determination that these counterfeit, breakers
| are not made to the same specs as any other QO?
| No non-counterfeit recalls are there?
|
| --I read that there weren't any incidents with the counterfeit breakers,
| so I'm wondering if they are not in fact, the same
|
| Then how did they get a recall for failure to trip? If there were no
| instances of failing to trip?
|
| I can see making them retract them as counterfeits but that's not the
| baliwick of CPSC; that would be a legal thingie as near as I can tell.
|
| And, of course, they could well be "made to the same spec's" but that's
| not _quite_ the same thing as performing to the same spec.
|
| OK, that's not what I heard. All I heard was that there were counterfeits
| that were being recalled, once identified, but nothing about failing to trip
|
| There have been warnings in the UK about counterfeits being found
| in other parts of Europe (but not as yet in the UK, AFAIK). A picture
| in a trade magazine shows one of them opened up. There are no overcurrent
| parts inside, and the toggle is just a plain switch.

How many people ever test the overcurrent aspect, anyway? I'm guessing one
of these must have failed somewhere somehow to have gotten noticed.

--
|WARNING: Due to extreme spam, googlegroups.com is blocked. Due to ignorance |
| by the abuse department, bellsouth.net is blocked. If you post to |
| Usenet from these places, find another Usenet provider ASAP. |
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) |

In alt.engineering.electrical David Nebenzahl wrote:
| On 5/30/2008 6:49 AM Andrew Gabriel spake thus:
|
| In article ,
| "RBM" writes:
|
| "dpb" wrote in message ...
|
| RBM wrote:
|
| "dpb" wrote in message ...
|
| RBM wrote:
| ...
| Bud, has there been any determination that these counterfeit, breakers
| are not made to the same specs as any other QO?
| No non-counterfeit recalls are there?
|
| --I read that there weren't any incidents with the counterfeit breakers,
| so I'm wondering if they are not in fact, the same
|
| Then how did they get a recall for failure to trip? If there were no
| instances of failing to trip?
|
| I can see making them retract them as counterfeits but that's not the
| baliwick of CPSC; that would be a legal thingie as near as I can tell.
|
| And, of course, they could well be "made to the same spec's" but that's
| not _quite_ the same thing as performing to the same spec.
|
| OK, that's not what I heard. All I heard was that there were counterfeits
| that were being recalled, once identified, but nothing about failing to trip
|
| There have been warnings in the UK about counterfeits being found
| in other parts of Europe (but not as yet in the UK, AFAIK). A picture
| in a trade magazine shows one of them opened up. There are no overcurrent
| parts inside, and the toggle is just a plain switch.
|
| So, a perverse thought crosses one's mind: would replacing one's
| breakers with toggle switches be the equivalent of putting pennies in
| fuse sockets in the olden days?

Yes. BTW, they do make them ... switches that replace circuit breakers.
If you need a lot of switches in a circumstance where you don't need the
individual overcurrent protection, and need it in a more compact space
than could be had with a bunch of 2x4 boxes, then this might be the thing.
Imagine if you have a need to individually switch on and off 80 different
7 watt lights. Would you put in 10 sets of 4-gang boxes with duplex switches
in each, or put in an 84-slot panel and 80 switches? The latter might cost
more due to the big box. The latter might not fit so well.

I don't recall if the breakers are cheaper than switches, but perhaps the
economy of scale of production for breakers could do that.

--
|WARNING: Due to extreme spam, googlegroups.com is blocked. Due to ignorance |
| by the abuse department, bellsouth.net is blocked. If you post to |
| Usenet from these places, find another Usenet provider ASAP. |
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) |

In article ,
writes:
In alt.engineering.electrical Andrew Gabriel wrote:
| There have been warnings in the UK about counterfeits being found
| in other parts of Europe (but not as yet in the UK, AFAIK). A picture
| in a trade magazine shows one of them opened up. There are no overcurrent
| parts inside, and the toggle is just a plain switch.

How many people ever test the overcurrent aspect, anyway? I'm guessing one
of these must have failed somewhere somehow to have gotten noticed.

AFAIK, they were discovered by manufacturers investigating how
their products were turning up on the market too cheaply and
undercutting the official distributors.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In alt.engineering.electrical Andrew Gabriel wrote:
| In article ,
| writes:
| In alt.engineering.electrical Andrew Gabriel wrote:
|| There have been warnings in the UK about counterfeits being found
|| in other parts of Europe (but not as yet in the UK, AFAIK). A picture
|| in a trade magazine shows one of them opened up. There are no overcurrent
|| parts inside, and the toggle is just a plain switch.
|
| How many people ever test the overcurrent aspect, anyway? I'm guessing one
| of these must have failed somewhere somehow to have gotten noticed.
|
| AFAIK, they were discovered by manufacturers investigating how
| their products were turning up on the market too cheaply and
| undercutting the official distributors.

Ah, that would do it, too.

--
|WARNING: Due to extreme spam, googlegroups.com is blocked. Due to ignorance |
| by the abuse department, bellsouth.net is blocked. If you post to |
| Usenet from these places, find another Usenet provider ASAP. |
| Phil Howard KA9WGN (email for humans: first name in lower case at ipal.net) |

Yes. BTW, they do make them ... switches that replace circuit breakers.
If you need a lot of switches in a circumstance where you don't need the
individual overcurrent protection, and need it in a more compact space
than could be had with a bunch of 2x4 boxes, then this might be the thing.
Imagine if you have a need to individually switch on and off 80 different
7 watt lights. Would you put in 10 sets of 4-gang boxes with duplex switches
in each, or put in an 84-slot panel and 80 switches? The latter might cost
more due to the big box. The latter might not fit so well.

I don't recall if the breakers are cheaper than switches, but perhaps the
economy of scale of production for breakers could do that.



My heat pump has a switch in circuit breaker format in the disconnect
box on the side of the house. A breaker isn't necessary out there, as
the branch is protected in the main panel and nothing else is on it.