On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 14:40:50 -0500, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Why did you remove the anode of the old heater? Just curious?

Better than curious.
I wanted to learn if the anode was corroded in which case it was a
diagnostic tool as to what caused the failure of the prior tank.

By the way, I found some requirements for the installation of the pressure
relief valve plumbing ... which must "not terminate more than 6 inches (152
mm) above the floor". Darn. Now we need to horizontalize it, creating the
chance of clog causing further danger to occupants!

Donna

http://codes.ohio.gov/oac/4101:3-5-01

504.6 Requirements for discharge piping. The discharge piping serving a
pressure relief valve, temperature relief valve or combination thereof
shall:
1. Not be directly connected to the drainage system.
2. Discharge through an air gap located in the same room as the water
heater.
3. Not be smaller than the diameter of the outlet of the valve served and
shall discharge full size to the air gap.
4. Serve a single relief device and shall not connect to piping serving any
other relief device or equipment.
5. Discharge to the floor, to an indirect waste receptor or to the
outdoors. Where discharging to the outdoors in areas subject to freezing,
discharge piping shall be first piped to an indirect waste receptor through
an air gap located in a conditioned area.
6. Discharge in a manner that does not cause personal injury or structural
damage.
7. Discharge to a termination point that is readily observable by the
building occupants.
8. Not be trapped.
9. Be installed so as to flow by gravity.
10. Not terminate more than 6 inches (152 mm) above the floor or waste
receptor.
11. Not have a threaded connection at the end of such piping.
12. Not have valves or tee fittings.

On Feb 18, 11:42�am, "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator"
wrote:
On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 09:18:04 -0800 (PST), N8N wrote:
If you try to remove it next year, you should be able to do it

Good point. We should remove the anode every year so that it *can* be
removed when it comes time to replace it with a similarly sized one.

One thing we still need to do is attach the drainage pipe from the
Temperature & Pressure valve to near the floor in case of an overflow.http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2274211119/

Is the drain pipe mandatory (can we just leave it off)?

It seems to me a drain pipe *should* be mandatory because you don't want
hot water spewing forth at eye level. However, due to configuration
changes, even with the taller tank, the old drainage tube is too long and
too close to the tank so we can't just screw the old one in. We have to
modify it somehow to make it shorter and move it away from the wood base.

QUESTION:
How many inches ABOVE the garage floor should it end?http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2030/...c9df0f48_m.jpg

If we can end ABOVE the 18 inch wooden platform, that would be easier.
If we have to end six or so inches above the garage cement floor, that
would necessitate an elbow to get past the wooden base but it seems a
horizontal line can clog causing a safety hazard.

I googled but did not find any specs as to HOW MANY INCHES above either the
floor or better yet, the wooden platform, that a drain pipe must terminate..

Can someone recommend a solution?

Thanks
Donna

new plastic [pipe and fitting will repace the drain line easily.......
no biggie

replace the galvanized all of it before it leaks and causes mold ,
structural damage or a flood.

it will fix all flow issues and make your home more valuable

On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 12:08:17 -0800 (PST), wrote:
new plastic [pipe and fitting will repace the drain line easily.......
no biggie

This implies we can't use plastic for the discharge tube:
http://www.usinspect.com/WaterHeater...chargeTube.asp

Here's what it says ... (catch that last counter-intuitive line!)...
Donna

A discharge tube is a tube or pipe that is attached to the TPR valve that
directs the superheated water down to the floor and away from anyone in the
discharge area to prevent scalding or burning.

The pipe itself must be made of a material that is rated for both high
temperature and pressure, which includes most rigid wall copper or iron.
Also, the size of the pipe must match the opening size of the TPR valve
discharge (usually ¾ inch).

The tube must terminate no more than 6 inches from the floor or be directed
to the exterior of the home.

If the discharge tube is routed to the exterior, the pipe must discharge 6
to 24 inches from grade, with a downward slope to prevent the pipe from
clogging or forming a trap. Blocked discharge tubes will prevent the
superheated water from discharging and will burst.

Though counterintuitive, it is often recommended that the discharge tube
terminate next to the water heater so that any malfunction of the water
heater will be more readily noticed.

The tube must terminate no more than 6 inches from the floor or be directed
to the exterior of the home.

Notice this one says six to twelve inches above the floor:
http://www.factsfacts.com/MyHomeRepa...sureRelief.htm

And, again, note the restrictions on the materials.

The discharge tube overflow pipe "must be made of a material that's rated
for both high temperature and pressure. This includes most rigid wall
copper, iron and, in most places, chlorinated polyvinylchloride (CPVC
plastic not regular PVC) pipe. The pipe size must match the opening size
of the TPR valve discharge (usually ¾ inch). It must terminate 6"-12"
above the floor, and the end cannot be threaded or have a fitting which
permits connecting a plug or cap."

"Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" wrote in
message news

One minor question we had for the natural gas line was whether or not to
kink the gas hose in an S-shaped curve to trap sediments before they enter
the thermostat.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2273276741/

Do you arrange the gas hose in any particular manner?

Yes. There should be a tee.

It would go something like this: The incoming gas goes to the heater thru
the tee, but at the bottom of the tee is a 6" piece of pipe to catch oil &
other impurities in the gas. tailpiece, drip loop, whatever you want to call
it. The -hose- goes from the tee to the heater; the rest is solid pipe.

incoming gas
water heater
tail piece

"Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" wrote in
message ...

2. Even Superman couldn't would have a tough time removing mine ...
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2033/...b7d618.jpg?v=0

Given it took a pipe wrench plus a huge cheater bar to remove the anode
with the water heater removed and blocked on the ground ... and given that

On your new heater, take the anode out and wrap the threads once with teflon
tape or anti-seize compound. Much easier to remove the next time; still
provides protection too.

"Bob M." wrote in message
. ..
"Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" wrote
in message ...

2. Even Superman couldn't would have a tough time removing mine ...
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2033/...b7d618.jpg?v=0

Given it took a pipe wrench plus a huge cheater bar to remove the anode
with the water heater removed and blocked on the ground ... and given
that

On your new heater, take the anode out and wrap the threads once with
teflon tape or anti-seize compound. Much easier to remove the next time;
still provides protection too.

Doesn't it still need to be grounded to the tank?

I remember from boats that the sacrificial anode needs a good solid ground
connection to the engine or transmission block.

On Feb 18, 6:24�pm, "James Sweet" wrote:
"Bob M." wrote in message

. ..

"Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" wrote
in igy.net...

2. Even Superman couldn't would have a tough time removing mine ...
�http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2033/...b7d618.jpg?v=0

Given it took a pipe wrench plus a huge cheater bar to remove the anode
with the water heater removed and blocked on the ground ... and given
that

On your new heater, take the anode out and wrap the threads once with
teflon tape or anti-seize compound. Much easier to remove the next time;
still provides protection too.

Doesn't it still need to be grounded to the tank?

I remember from boats that the sacrificial anode needs a good solid ground
connection to the engine or transmission block.

yes it does,,,,,,,,,,,, no metal to metal contact no protection.....

geez i just replace the tank when it fails, it gets me a more efficent
unit every 10 years or so.

disturbing the anode and messing with the tank can generate a leak and
early tank replacement.........

"James Sweet" wrote in message
news:atouj.5014$_T3.3895@trnddc07...

"Bob M." wrote in message
. ..
"Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" wrote
in message ...

2. Even Superman couldn't would have a tough time removing mine ...
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2033/...b7d618.jpg?v=0

Given it took a pipe wrench plus a huge cheater bar to remove the anode
with the water heater removed and blocked on the ground ... and given
that

On your new heater, take the anode out and wrap the threads once with
teflon tape or anti-seize compound. Much easier to remove the next time;
still provides protection too.

Doesn't it still need to be grounded to the tank?

I remember from boats that the sacrificial anode needs a good solid ground
connection to the engine or transmission block.




Yes, and it is even with a layer of teflon tape. Can be easily tested with
a meter. If someone's really concerned, use anti-seize compound available
at auto parts places. It's used for spark plugs.

On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:31:12 -0800 (PST), wrote:
Doesn't it still need to be grounded to the tank?
yes it does,,,,,,,,,,,, no metal to metal contact no protection.....

In addition to the prior quoted article from Rheem which says to use Teflon
tape on the sacrificial anode, these guys on the plumbing forum ran an
experiment by wrapping 20 layers of Teflon tape around a threaded coupling
and then measuring the electrical resistance:
http://www.plbg.com/forum/read.php?1,285316

Here's what they say about it.
Donna

"I just put about 20 layers of teflon tape on each end of a nipple and
tightened one into female galv an one end into female copper. I then used a
multimeter to measure the resistance from one fitting to the other, through
the two teflon-tape joints. The resistance was less than a tenth of an ohm
(i.e. short circuit).

When I did the same across a dielectric union, I got about 2 mega-ohms
(i.e. there's just a tiny bit of conduction through the water, but the
metals aren't touching)

So the business about teflon tape being just as good as a dielectric union
is complete nonsense. The threads just cut through the teflon. It may work
in some cases, but it won't work in others and should not be recommended.

What's amazing to me is that there are all these "old plumbers' tales" out
there, so people are arguing about whether brass or teflon or stainless are
good or bad. Shouldn't this be scientifically determined? I realize that
corrosion happens over many years, but still, there must be ways of
measuring corrosion in the lab. It shouldn't be a matter of opinion or
first-person stories (anecdotal evidence)."

On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 19:57:10 -0700, Rick Blaine wrote:
Does the pressure of the hot water rise to 120 psi while the pressure of
the cold water remains at 80 psi?

Water expands when heated... Older systems allow that pressure to go back into
the supply line towards the street. newer systems have check valves.

Hi Rick,

I was wondering why BOTH the hot water outlet and the cold-water inlet had
check valves built into the respective dialectric nipples provided in the
top of the new tank!

Are you saying the hot-water check valve prevents hot water from leaking up
the pipe for efficiency reasons; while the cold-water check valve prevents
hot water from leaking backward into the supply line?

If the pressure is 150 psi inside the tank, what is the pressure the hot
water is coming out? Is it at 150 psi while the cold water remains at 80
psi? I find that hard to believe, empirically.

Donna

On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:00:09 -0700, Bob M. wrote:
I remember from boats that the sacrificial anode needs a good solid ground
connection to the engine or transmission block.
Yes, and it is even with a layer of teflon tape. Can be easily tested with
a meter. If someone's really concerned, use anti-seize compound available
at auto parts places. It's used for spark plugs.

I think "grounded" might not be the right word; but the anode must be
"connected" electrically to the tank as a requirement for its purpose.

I do remember in my research last week (oh so long ago) one article where
guys tested it with an ohmmeter and found that Teflon tape didn't hurt the
anodic action.

Here's one article that says distinctly to use Teflon on the anode:
http://www.inspectorsjournal.com/for...?TOPIC_ID=2431

There it says:
"Remove the old anode rod with a 1 and 1/16 inch six-sided wrench or
socket. Do NOT use a 12-point wrench or socket or you will strip the head
of the anode. Get at least a 24-inch cheater bar. I keep a piece of 3/4
inch black iron pipe in the garage just for this purpose. Place the cheater
pipe over the socket handle. Have someone hold the water heater while you
slowly break the seal. Once broken, the anode removes quite easily."

It goes on to talk about the Teflon:
"Replace with a new anode rod. It is a 3/4-inch National Pipe Thread (NPT)
part. You may find one at any plumbing house or home store. Use pipe sealer
or Teflon tape to seal the threads. Snug it down tightly. Remember the
water heater builds up 150 PSI of pressure inside the tank."

BTW, where does the 150 psi come from?
I thought incoming water was about 80 psi.
Does just the fact we're heating the water raise the pressure?
Why? It's only 120 degrees (merely hot); not 212 degrees (boiling).

Does the pressure of the hot water rise to 120 psi while the pressure of
the cold water remains at 80 psi?

"Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" wrote:

BTW, where does the 150 psi come from?
I thought incoming water was about 80 psi.
Does just the fact we're heating the water raise the pressure?
Why? It's only 120 degrees (merely hot); not 212 degrees (boiling).

Does the pressure of the hot water rise to 120 psi while the pressure of
the cold water remains at 80 psi?

Water expands when heated... Older systems allow that pressure to go back into
the supply line towards the street. newer systems have check valves.

"Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" wrote in
message

If the pressure is 150 psi inside the tank, what is the pressure the hot
water is coming out? Is it at 150 psi while the cold water remains at 80
psi? I find that hard to believe, empirically.

Donna

It is whatever it is until you open a valve and it will be no more than the
cold water behind it. Static pressure is probably not much more than the
dynamic anyway given the low temperature. Water does not compress well so
it is very easy to relieve pressure so there will be no dramatic "poof" when
you open the tap.

If, however, the gas ran wild and made steam you could have much more
pressure and a violent release.

On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 23:24:54 GMT, James Sweet wrote:
On your new heater, take the anode out and wrap the threads once with
teflon tape or anti-seize compound. Much easier to remove the next time;
still provides protection too.
I remember from boats that the sacrificial anode needs a good solid ground
connection to the engine or transmission block.

Hi James,

Many articles I find on replacing the sacrificial anode discuss the use of
Teflon tape to prevent leaks. Apparently the threads cut right through the
tape to make plenty of metal to metal contact in the steel tank.

For example, "This Old House"
http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/vide...047047,00.html
shows a video of a destroyed sacrificial anode (just like mine) and a
passivated (covered in Calcium deposits) sacrificial anode. They replaced
it with both a three-foot-eight-inch straight anode and a three-link
sausage-shaped collapsible anode (for tight spaces). Both had Teflon tape
in the threads!

In addition, this article was written by a housing specialist and was
reviewed by three PH.D.s and the EPA - and it clearly says to use Teflon
tape on the sacrificial WH anode for replacement:
http://www.fcs.uga.edu/ext/pubs/hace/HACE-E-60-05.pdf
They say:
"Wrap the threads of the new rod in Teflon tape."

This article by John Wood Heaters also says to use Teflon tape:
http://www.johnwoodwaterheaters.com/...chsupport.html
They say:
"Wrap threads of the anode with plumber¢s tape or use pipe dope approved
for use with potable water, and install the (new) anode into tank and
tighten."

This very informative series of articles are some of the best I've seen
explaining sacrificial anodes for water heaters and other topics.
http://216.250.104.54/default.cfm?PageId=42306
It covers lots of interesting topics, including how to bend anodes to fit
them in tight spaces but unfortunately, it doesn't cover the Teflon issue.

How can it be that replacing a drain valve in a full tank leaks not water?

I still feel badly that I didn't replace the plastic drain valve with the
brass ball valve because I was afraid the plastic was not removable (that's
what Sears salespeople said anyway, instilling FUD in my mind).

I was subsequently reading how to replace the plastic drain valve after the
fact and they all seem to say it won't leak if I do so with a full tank.

Huh?

How can removing the drain valve at the bottom of a full water heater not
leak 50 gallons of water?

I already saw, first hand, what happens when that drain valve
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2274079114/
snaps off
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2273262545/
spewing 40 gallons of hot water in my garage
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2273262535/

Can someone clarify this statement from, say:
http://216.250.104.54/default.cfm?PageId=41781 (see excerpt below).

Donna


Maintenance Tip #21 Drain valves
Drain valves usually come when you buy them from a manufacturer. They used
to be brass. You should install a 3/4 ball valve on your water heater.
The plastic ones are prone to leaking. To install a brass ball valve, turn
the gas or electricity off and open a hot tap inside the house. If you
have a cone-shaped valve, unscrew it counterclockwise six turns or so and
pull it out at the same time. Now turn it clockwise while continuing to
pull and it will come out. Wrap Teflon on the nipple that is exposed on
the water heater. Attach the ball valve now. If you have a plastic drain
valve that looks like a hose bib, unscrew it by turning the entire valve
itself.
A little water may come out while you're installing a new valve, but not
much at all. Wear gloves to avoid getting scalded.

In article ,
says...
"James Sweet" wrote in message
news:atouj.5014$_T3.3895@trnddc07...

"Bob M." wrote in message
. ..
"Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" wrote
in message ...

2. Even Superman couldn't would have a tough time removing mine ...
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2033/...b7d618.jpg?v=0

Given it took a pipe wrench plus a huge cheater bar to remove the anode
with the water heater removed and blocked on the ground ... and given
that

On your new heater, take the anode out and wrap the threads once with
teflon tape or anti-seize compound. Much easier to remove the next time;
still provides protection too.

Doesn't it still need to be grounded to the tank?

I remember from boats that the sacrificial anode needs a good solid ground
connection to the engine or transmission block.




Yes, and it is even with a layer of teflon tape. Can be easily tested with
a meter. If someone's really concerned, use anti-seize compound available
at auto parts places. It's used for spark plugs.

Automotive anti-seize compounds should not be used for potable water
connections, due to the presence of petroleum distillates and metals
such as nickel or molybdenum.

--Gene

Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator wrote:
How can it be that replacing a drain valve in a full tank leaks not water?

I still feel badly that I didn't replace the plastic drain valve with the
brass ball valve because I was afraid the plastic was not removable (that's
what Sears salespeople said anyway, instilling FUD in my mind).

I was subsequently reading how to replace the plastic drain valve after the
fact and they all seem to say it won't leak if I do so with a full tank.

Huh?

How can removing the drain valve at the bottom of a full water heater not
leak 50 gallons of water?

I already saw, first hand, what happens when that drain valve
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2274079114/
snaps off
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2273262545/
spewing 40 gallons of hot water in my garage
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2273262535/

Can someone clarify this statement from, say:
http://216.250.104.54/default.cfm?PageId=41781 (see excerpt below).

Donna


Maintenance Tip #21 Drain valves
Drain valves usually come when you buy them from a manufacturer. They used
to be brass. You should install a 3/4 ball valve on your water heater.
The plastic ones are prone to leaking. To install a brass ball valve, turn
the gas or electricity off and open a hot tap inside the house. If you
have a cone-shaped valve, unscrew it counterclockwise six turns or so and
pull it out at the same time. Now turn it clockwise while continuing to
pull and it will come out. Wrap Teflon on the nipple that is exposed on
the water heater. Attach the ball valve now. If you have a plastic drain
valve that looks like a hose bib, unscrew it by turning the entire valve
itself.
A little water may come out while you're installing a new valve, but not
much at all. Wear gloves to avoid getting scalded.

Their idea of "a little" water is "about 5-10 gallons." I would drain
the tank prior to replacing. I did just this on two heaters in my
basement last year and I was unable to completely drain them (the WH
drains are lower than any drain in the house) I had a mess to clean up
after each one, and lots of sediment came spewing out too. It was
especially fun as both were so close to the floor (wh's not on stands)
that I had to leave the new valves open while starting the threads.
Assembling the whole mess on the bench and installing the garden hose
cap is highly recommended.

There will be less water coming out than you experienced with your old
tank because of the vacuum of having all the valves in the house shut,
but it'll still come out eventually.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Feb 19, 6:30*am, Nate Nagel wrote:
Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator wrote:





How can it be that replacing a drain valve in a full tank leaks not water?

I still feel badly that I didn't replace the plastic drain valve with the
brass ball valve because I was afraid the plastic was not removable (that's
what Sears salespeople said anyway, instilling FUD in my mind).

I was subsequently reading how to replace the plastic drain valve after the
fact and they all seem to say it won't leak if I do so with a full tank.

Huh?

How can removing the drain valve at the bottom of a full water heater not
leak 50 gallons of water?

I already saw, first hand, what happens when that drain valve
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2274079114/
snaps off
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2273262545/
spewing 40 gallons of hot water in my garage
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2273262535/

Can someone clarify this statement from, say:
http://216.250.104.54/default.cfm?PageId=41781(see excerpt below).

Donna

Maintenance Tip #21 Drain valves
Drain valves usually come when you buy them from a manufacturer. *They used
to be brass. *You should install a 3/4 ball valve on your water heater..
The plastic ones are prone to leaking. *To install a brass ball valve, turn
the gas or electricity off and open a hot tap inside the house. *If you
have a cone-shaped valve, unscrew it counterclockwise six turns or so and
pull it out at the same time. *Now turn it clockwise while continuing to
pull and it will come out. *Wrap Teflon on the nipple that is exposed on
the water heater. *Attach the ball valve now. *If you have a plastic drain
valve that looks like a hose bib, unscrew it by turning the entire valve
itself.
A little water may come out while you're installing a new valve, but not
much at all. *Wear gloves to avoid getting scalded.

Their idea of "a little" water is "about 5-10 gallons." *I would drain
the tank prior to replacing. *I did just this on two heaters in my
basement last year and I was unable to completely drain them (the WH
drains are lower than any drain in the house) I had a mess to clean up
after each one, and lots of sediment came spewing out too. *It was
especially fun as both were so close to the floor (wh's not on stands)
that I had to leave the new valves open while starting the threads.
Assembling the whole mess on the bench and installing the garden hose
cap is highly recommended.

There will be less water coming out than you experienced with your old
tank because of the vacuum of having all the valves in the house shut,
but it'll still come out eventually.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Also, before draining the tank to remove sediment or to work on it,
it's a good idea to shut the gas off a long time before you're going
to do the work. That way, you can use up most of the hot water in
the tank through normal use, instead of wasting it.

On Feb 19, 6:30�am, Nate Nagel wrote:
Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator wrote:





How can it be that replacing a drain valve in a full tank leaks not water?

I still feel badly that I didn't replace the plastic drain valve with the
brass ball valve because I was afraid the plastic was not removable (that's
what Sears salespeople said anyway, instilling FUD in my mind).

I was subsequently reading how to replace the plastic drain valve after the
fact and they all seem to say it won't leak if I do so with a full tank.

Huh?

How can removing the drain valve at the bottom of a full water heater not
leak 50 gallons of water?

I already saw, first hand, what happens when that drain valve
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2274079114/
snaps off
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2273262545/
spewing 40 gallons of hot water in my garage
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2273262535/

Can someone clarify this statement from, say:
http://216.250.104.54/default.cfm?PageId=41781(see excerpt below).

Donna

Maintenance Tip #21 Drain valves
Drain valves usually come when you buy them from a manufacturer. �They used
to be brass. �You should install a 3/4 ball valve on your water heater.
The plastic ones are prone to leaking. �To install a brass ball valve, turn
the gas or electricity off and open a hot tap inside the house. �If you
have a cone-shaped valve, unscrew it counterclockwise six turns or so and
pull it out at the same time. �Now turn it clockwise while continuing to
pull and it will come out. �Wrap Teflon on the nipple that is exposed on
the water heater. �Attach the ball valve now. �If you have a plastic drain
valve that looks like a hose bib, unscrew it by turning the entire valve
itself.
A little water may come out while you're installing a new valve, but not
much at all. �Wear gloves to avoid getting scalded.

Their idea of "a little" water is "about 5-10 gallons." �I would drain
the tank prior to replacing. �I did just this on two heaters in my
basement last year and I was unable to completely drain them (the WH
drains are lower than any drain in the house) I had a mess to clean up
after each one, and lots of sediment came spewing out too. �It was
especially fun as both were so close to the floor (wh's not on stands)
that I had to leave the new valves open while starting the threads.
Assembling the whole mess on the bench and installing the garden hose
cap is highly recommended.

There will be less water coming out than you experienced with your old
tank because of the vacuum of having all the valves in the house shut,
but it'll still come out eventually.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

leave all the faucets OFF while changing valves.

the plastic valves are fine if they get just ONE use, to drain the
tank at end of use.......

On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 07:39:50 -0700, Rick Blaine wrote:

"Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" wrote:

I was wondering why BOTH the hot water outlet and the cold-water inlet had
check valves built into the respective dialectric nipples provided in the
top of the new tank!

If you are talking about the galvanized nipples with blue plastic flaps that go
between the heater at the cold/hot ports, those are thermal breaks - not check
valves. They reduce the heat loss from the tank into the pipes when the water is
not being used.

A check valve is significantly larger than a nipple and would typically only be
be found after the main valve and before the heater.

Hi Rick,
Oh. That changes things. I'll check with the literature. We thought the hot
had a heat check valve inside the nipple. It had a black rubber center
which the cold nipple didn't have.

Due to the fact there was little room, and we thought the heat-loss valve
was already there, we didn't put in a flap valve and we used a straight
stainless steel flexible pipe.

If what you say is correct, then we may need to replace the stainless steel
flexible pipe with an S-shaped copper flex tube plus a dialectric union.

One question that still confuses me is the BRASS on the ends of some of the
stainless steel and copper pipes. Can we pub BRASS to galvanized or must we
alwyas use a dialectric union. (I ask because the stainless steel pipe had
brass on the end yet it was advertised for iron to iron).

Donna

"Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" wrote:

I was wondering why BOTH the hot water outlet and the cold-water inlet had
check valves built into the respective dialectric nipples provided in the
top of the new tank!

If you are talking about the galvanized nipples with blue plastic flaps that go
between the heater at the cold/hot ports, those are thermal breaks - not check
valves. They reduce the heat loss from the tank into the pipes when the water is
not being used.

A check valve is significantly larger than a nipple and would typically only be
be found after the main valve and before the heater.

On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 05:23:57 -0800 (PST), wrote:
There will be less water coming out than you experienced with your old
tank because of the vacuum of having all the valves in the house shut,

shut off the gas a long time before ...
you can use up most of the hot water in the tank

Hi trader,

I learned this one in spades!

We had used up some of the hot water (Bill took a really really long shower
with the gas turned off) before the fiasco of the snapped valve:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2273262545/

We had warm, not hot, water all over the garage as the tank shot it out two
feet. Luckily I was around as the tank had just been righted after tipping
over as we tried to get it off the stand, full of water. It was horrid.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2273262531/

The only good thing was you had already admonished us to have tepid water
in the tank and that's what saved us from getting scalded as Bill stuck his
finger in the hole (it was just the right size) to stop the leak and I
bucketed the water outside.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2273262535/

We would have been burned had we not taken that good advice from this
newsgroup! Others should heed the warning too.

Thanks,
Donna

On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 05:27:28 -0800 (PST), wrote:
the plastic valves are fine if they get just ONE use, to drain the
tank at end of use.......

Hi hallerb,
I understand your point. But, from what I read, they used to be brass and
the manufacturers switched to the plastic for cost reasons only.

Also, I read a brass ball valve doesn't clog as easily.

Given our experience this past weekend, where the valve first clogged and
then broke off inside the water heater, it would seem to us that over time,
the brass will be less likely to break than the plastic.

Of course, one reason ours clogged was likely the fact we never flushed it
so the sediments may have been too much for any valve - and one reason it
broke is that we were manhandling it trying to get the tipped-over water
heater back on the stand ... so you might be right.

I think I now understand how to replace the brass valve. In fact, a more
important issue came up in that our dishwasher suddenly stopped working. I
think it's due to the sediment being sent through the pipes (our shower
heads were totally clogged all of a sudden, with sandy grainy stuff).

I opened a separate thread on alt.home.repair to ask how to clean out a
dishwasher without being able to remove it (it's bricked in it seems).

I feel like "this old house" is attacking me so it's nice to have this
wonderful newsgroup as my friends to help in times of need!

Donna

I opened a separate thread on alt.home.repair to ask how to clean out a
dishwasher without being able to remove it (it's bricked in it seems).




The dishwasher is bricked in? Sheesh, how did they even manage that?

Fortunately most things can be accessed by removing the kick plate. The
water inlet is a solenoid valve normally in the left-front corner of the
machine. It will attach with a compression fitting which you can disconnect
and then you should be able to remove the valve and clean it out. I suspect
your clog is right there.

On Feb 18, 8:23 pm, "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator"
wrote:
I still feel badly that I didn't replace the plastic drain valve with the
brass ball valve because I was afraid the plastic was not removable (that's
what Sears salespeople said anyway, instilling FUD in my mind).

Don't bother replacing the WH drain now. Fix the clogged dishwasher
instead.
Replace that factory drain valve in six months when you flush the WH
for your first maintenance interval.

As for that clogged dishwasher, you'll likely have to break the bricks
bricking it in in order to get to the innards.
Good luck. Ask questions. Take advice with a grain of salt.

And post back with your results!

On Feb 19, 4:23�pm, wrote:
On Feb 18, 8:23 pm, "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator"

wrote:
I still feel badly that I didn't replace the plastic drain valve with the
brass ball valve because I was afraid the plastic was not removable (that's
what Sears salespeople said anyway, instilling FUD in my mind).

Don't bother replacing the WH drain now. Fix the clogged dishwasher
instead.
Replace that factory drain valve in six months when you flush the WH
for your first maintenance interval.

As for that clogged dishwasher, you'll likely have to break the bricks
bricking it in in order to get to the innards.
Good luck. Ask questions. Take advice with a grain of salt.

And post back with your results!

donna is a nice new home owner. before you know it she will be like
most of us long termers, doing what we must, and ignoring drain valves
etc.

all she needs is doing one preventive maintence job that turns a
working whatever into a non functional disaster that costs a fortune
to fix.

i rather imagine most of us have been thru one of those.

kinda like pruning a tree, having a limb fall onto the roof, while
replacing damaged shingles fall off roof, hit power line, ripping it
off the side of the house. fortunately the poor fellow didnt get
shocked, or seriously hurt.

but the colateral costs, pay someone to finish tree trimming and clean
up, pay electrician to put service back on house, losts food in
fridge, power was off too long. my friend, spent nearly 2 days in
hospital, sent home on crutches.missed a week work no sick time.......

this happened to a guy i knew.

a old neighbor decided to replace his bathroom floor. lose floorboard,
ran nail into water line, flood took down kitchen cieling..

need plumber, new cieling and contracted out bathroom redo.

so he decided cars would be his thing, took air cleaner off to adjust
carbuerator, reved engine, air cleaner housing dropped into fan went
thru radiator.

tow truck, new fan, new radiator, misc repairs, had carb replaced.

new DIYers be careful so we dont add your story to the list

my memorable event

did some plumbing, opened main valve with one connection still open to
flush lines, main valve failed couldnt shut off, had to call water
company who had great trouble finding main valve, as street had been
raised........

could of got arrested so upset i forgot to pay for valve at hardware
store, i just walked out, no register stop, the store owner who knew
me thought it funny, as my shoies went squish squish waterlogged as i
walked out..

just a memorable day for a home repairer.

a buddy of mine in detroit was doing some wiring, turned breaker back
on, all power in building went out, fact all power from detroit to new
york. that big power failure from some years ago........... wasnt his
fault but just imagine

now that was funny!!!!!

all she needs is doing one preventive maintence job that turns a
working whatever into a non functional disaster that costs a fortune
to fix.

i rather imagine most of us have been thru one of those.



Oh it happens to the best of us, it's why contractors are bonded. I once
went to replace the distributor on a car, somehow managed to drop a socket
down into the timing belt cover while trying to locate TDC, and then broke
the timing belt in the process of getting that out. Thankfully it turned out
to be a non-interference engine so no major damage was done. On top of all
that, the car happened to belong to my boss, and I was working on it in the
back parking lot at work. A 20 minute job turned into 3 days of early
mornings and late evenings since so much had to come apart to fix the stupid
thing. In the end though no real harm was done and it was a learning
experience to say the least. Some would give up after that, but being a true
DIYer I climbed back in the saddle and haven't made that same mistake again.
For every time I break something and make a job 10x what it should have
been, I save a fortune on a dozen other projects by doing them myself and I
can provide advice to others to prevent them from doing what I did.

When I was a kid I watched my dad hit a water pipe with a Sawzall while
putting in a light fixture, oops! Always take great care to cut a small hole
first so you can see whats in there.

James Sweet wrote:
all she needs is doing one preventive maintence job that turns a
working whatever into a non functional disaster that costs a fortune
to fix.

i rather imagine most of us have been thru one of those.



Oh it happens to the best of us, it's why contractors are bonded. I once
went to replace the distributor on a car, somehow managed to drop a socket
down into the timing belt cover while trying to locate TDC, and then broke
the timing belt in the process of getting that out. Thankfully it turned out
to be a non-interference engine so no major damage was done. On top of all
that, the car happened to belong to my boss, and I was working on it in the
back parking lot at work. A 20 minute job turned into 3 days of early
mornings and late evenings since so much had to come apart to fix the stupid
thing. In the end though no real harm was done and it was a learning
experience to say the least. Some would give up after that, but being a true
DIYer I climbed back in the saddle and haven't made that same mistake again.
For every time I break something and make a job 10x what it should have
been, I save a fortune on a dozen other projects by doing them myself and I
can provide advice to others to prevent them from doing what I did.

When I was a kid I watched my dad hit a water pipe with a Sawzall while
putting in a light fixture, oops! Always take great care to cut a small hole
first so you can see whats in there.


This could turn into a whole new thread of major f*ckups that we learned
from....

(One of) mine was when replacing the clutch on the family car--along
with my older brother--when we were 14 and 17 respectively. I put the
first bolt in the pressure plate, 'bumped' the starter in order to pull
the engine around to access the rest...

....and forgot to pull the coil wire. BAM! Engine fired up (briefly)
and trashed the new pressure plate. Luckily no other damage or injury
resulted.

jak

wrote:
On Feb 19, 4:23?pm, wrote:
On Feb 18, 8:23 pm, "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator"

wrote:
I still feel badly that I didn't replace the plastic drain valve
with the brass ball valve because I was afraid the plastic was not
removable (that's what Sears salespeople said anyway, instilling
FUD in my mind).

Don't bother replacing the WH drain now. Fix the clogged dishwasher
instead.
Replace that factory drain valve in six months when you flush the WH
for your first maintenance interval.

As for that clogged dishwasher, you'll likely have to break the
bricks bricking it in in order to get to the innards.
Good luck. Ask questions. Take advice with a grain of salt.

And post back with your results!

donna is a nice new home owner. before you know it she will be like
most of us long termers, doing what we must, and ignoring drain valves
etc.

all she needs is doing one preventive maintence job that turns a
working whatever into a non functional disaster that costs a fortune
to fix.

i rather imagine most of us have been thru one of those.

kinda like pruning a tree, having a limb fall onto the roof, while
replacing damaged shingles fall off roof, hit power line, ripping it
off the side of the house. fortunately the poor fellow didnt get
shocked, or seriously hurt.

but the colateral costs, pay someone to finish tree trimming and clean
up, pay electrician to put service back on house, losts food in
fridge, power was off too long. my friend, spent nearly 2 days in
hospital, sent home on crutches.missed a week work no sick time.......

this happened to a guy i knew.

a old neighbor decided to replace his bathroom floor. lose floorboard,
ran nail into water line, flood took down kitchen cieling..

need plumber, new cieling and contracted out bathroom redo.

so he decided cars would be his thing, took air cleaner off to adjust
carbuerator, reved engine, air cleaner housing dropped into fan went
thru radiator.

tow truck, new fan, new radiator, misc repairs, had carb replaced.

new DIYers be careful so we dont add your story to the list

my memorable event

did some plumbing, opened main valve with one connection still open to
flush lines, main valve failed couldnt shut off, had to call water
company who had great trouble finding main valve, as street had been
raised........

could of got arrested so upset i forgot to pay for valve at hardware
store, i just walked out, no register stop, the store owner who knew
me thought it funny, as my shoies went squish squish waterlogged as i
walked out..

just a memorable day for a home repairer.

a buddy of mine in detroit was doing some wiring, turned breaker back
on, all power in building went out, fact all power from detroit to new
york. that big power failure from some years ago........... wasnt his
fault but just imagine

now that was funny!!!!!

Never had even a single one of those, and I physically built the entire house.

On Feb 19, 5:37*pm, " wrote:

all she needs is doing one preventive maintence job that turns a
working whatever into a non functional disaster that costs a fortune
to fix.

i rather imagine most of us have been thru one of those.

Ain't that the truth.

I still err on the side of too much PM because I seem to be one of
those guys who manage to pull off just about every job I actually *do*
without too much hassle, but God forbid that I let any PM slide on
anything, it will bite me in the a$$... There are a few exceptions to
that rule however.

the funniest was, though, my ex-GF had a '69 Plymouth Valiant that I'd
found for her, because her old Monte Carlo was too much of a rusty
roach to pass PA state safety inspection without a new frame. It was
in immaculate shape, and ran and drove well. she took it to a local
garage to get it inspected and the guy failed her for dry-rotted
suspension bushings. So I called up PST, ordered a front end rebuild
kit, and went to town. I figured that it would be pretty easy, and
after all I was a mechanical engineering student so had access to the
school machine shop, what could possibly go wrong? I drove the
control arms down to another shop to have them bead blasted, painted
everything up real nice, went to put the first side back together and
I realize that the strut rod bushings are WAY too thick. Called up
PST, after being on the phone with tech support for quite some while,
figured out that they had the year breaks in their catalog wrong and I
needed the earlier version. Well their ******* people wouldn't trade
me for the ones I needed, wouldn't sell them separately, etc. etc.
etc. Also found out that one tie rod was swapped end for end so I
needed to order a new inner tie rod end as well (basic rebuild kit
only had outer tie rods, and the inspector had flagged outer tie rod
ends for replacement as well.) Car was on jackstands on the street in
front of her house for about 3 weeks while this was all going on (this
was supposed to be about a 3-day project, I had it all planned out...)
finally her annoying neighbor called the city to schedule tree
trimming, I had to throw the car together one evening wrong bushings
and all just to move it so it didn't get towed. By this time I'd
found a guy with a machine shop in his basement to turn down the strut
rod bushings for me to the thickness actually required, but I didn't
have time to R&R the lower control arm on one side.

Somewhere out there there is still a pea soup green '69 Valiant with a
nice polygraphite front end that has one original rubber lower control
arm bushing and one original rubber strut rod bushing... what a
charlie foxtrot.

You would think that I'd learned my lesson but a couple months later
my '67 Dart blew up its transmission on my way to her house, and I
coasted it into the exact same parking place where the Valiant had
been sitting. I borrowed the Valiant, went to the junkyard, got
another transmission, swapped that in at the side of the road in the
snow, and the car moved about 6 feet and never moved again. I sold it
for $50 just to get it the hell out of my sight.

Lesson learned; I don't do any work on cars outside of a garage or
driveway anymore... no job, no matter how simple appearing, is not
going to take about 10x as long as you think it is and if you're in a
hurry you're going to make mistakes.

nate

(you may all laugh at me now)

"Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" wrote in
message t...
On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 05:27:28 -0800 (PST), wrote:
the plastic valves are fine if they get just ONE use, to drain the
tank at end of use.......

Hi hallerb,
I understand your point. But, from what I read, they used to be brass and
the manufacturers switched to the plastic for cost reasons only.

Also, I read a brass ball valve doesn't clog as easily.

Given our experience this past weekend, where the valve first clogged and
then broke off inside the water heater, it would seem to us that over
time,
the brass will be less likely to break than the plastic.

Of course, one reason ours clogged was likely the fact we never flushed it
so the sediments may have been too much for any valve - and one reason it
broke is that we were manhandling it trying to get the tipped-over water
heater back on the stand ... so you might be right.

I think I now understand how to replace the brass valve. In fact, a more
important issue came up in that our dishwasher suddenly stopped working. I
think it's due to the sediment being sent through the pipes (our shower
heads were totally clogged all of a sudden, with sandy grainy stuff).

I opened a separate thread on alt.home.repair to ask how to clean out a
dishwasher without being able to remove it (it's bricked in it seems).

I feel like "this old house" is attacking me so it's nice to have this
wonderful newsgroup as my friends to help in times of need!

Donna
Any good installation of an appliance like a washing machine, dishwasher etc
should have a filter screen / rubber washer fitted to the hose fitting to
the tap that controls the water to the appliance, with a bit of luck it
should be as easy as to removing the hose from the tap and cleaning that
filter / screen. There could be an additional screen fitted to the water
inlet valve on the appliance as well that might need cleaning so depending
on the difficulty on accessing the fittings, start with the easy one first
and test from there before attempting the more difficult one. If you have
cleaned out all the filters and it still doesn't work you could have had the
unfortunate problem of luck that it also failed at close to the same time
(It happens occasionally unfortunately) so good luck with it all.
Justy.

On Feb 19, 7:37�pm, "Only Just" ifixit2@hotmail(dot)com wrote:
"Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" wrote in
digy.net...



On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 05:27:28 -0800 (PST), wrote:
the plastic valves are fine if they get just ONE use, to drain the
tank at end of use.......

Hi hallerb,
I understand your point. But, from what I read, they used to be brass and
the manufacturers switched to the plastic for cost reasons only.

Also, I read a brass ball valve doesn't clog as easily.

Given our experience this past weekend, where the valve first clogged and
then broke off inside the water heater, it would seem to us that over
time,
the brass will be less likely to break than the plastic.

Of course, one reason ours clogged was likely the fact we never flushed it
so the sediments may have been too much for any valve - and one reason it
broke is that we were manhandling it trying to get the tipped-over water
heater back on the stand ... so you might be right.

I think I now understand how to replace the brass valve. In fact, a more
important issue came up in that our dishwasher suddenly stopped working. I
think it's due to the sediment being sent through the pipes (our shower
heads were totally clogged all of a sudden, with sandy grainy stuff).

I opened a separate thread on alt.home.repair to ask how to clean out a
dishwasher without being able to remove it (it's bricked in it seems).

I feel like "this old house" is attacking me so it's nice to have this
wonderful newsgroup as my friends to help in times of need!

Donna

Any good installation of an appliance like a washing machine, dishwasher etc
should have a filter screen / rubber washer fitted to the hose fitting to
the tap that controls the water to the appliance, with a bit of luck it
should be as easy as to removing the hose from the tap and cleaning that
filter / screen. There could be an additional screen fitted to the water
inlet valve on the appliance as well that might need cleaning so depending
on the difficulty on accessing the fittings, start with the easy one first
and test from there before attempting the more difficult one. If you have
cleaned out all the filters and it still doesn't work you could have had the
unfortunate problem of luck that it also failed at close to the same time
(It happens occasionally unfortunately) so good luck with it all.
Justy.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I just installed a couple dishwashers, one for us and one for a
friend, and one for a friend, no screen washers,,,,,,,,,

On Feb 19, 6:50�pm, "Rod Speed" wrote:
wrote:
On Feb 19, 4:23?pm, wrote:
On Feb 18, 8:23 pm, "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator"

wrote:
I still feel badly that I didn't replace the plastic drain valve
with the brass ball valve because I was afraid the plastic was not
removable (that's what Sears salespeople said anyway, instilling
FUD in my mind).

Don't bother replacing the WH drain now. Fix the clogged dishwasher
instead.
Replace that factory drain valve in six months when you flush the WH
for your first maintenance interval.

As for that clogged dishwasher, you'll likely have to break the
bricks bricking it in in order to get to the innards.
Good luck. Ask questions. Take advice with a grain of salt.

And post back with your results!

donna is a nice new home owner. before you know it she will be like
most of us long termers, doing what we must, and ignoring drain valves
etc.

all she needs is doing one preventive maintence job that turns a
working whatever into a non functional disaster that costs a fortune
to fix.

i rather imagine most of us have been thru one of those.

kinda like pruning a tree, having a limb fall onto the roof, while
replacing �damaged shingles fall off roof, hit power line, ripping it
off the side of the house. fortunately the poor fellow didnt get
shocked, or seriously hurt.

but the colateral costs, pay someone to finish tree trimming and clean
up, pay electrician to put service back on house, losts food in
fridge, power was off too long. my friend, spent nearly 2 days in
hospital, sent home on crutches.missed a week work no sick time.......

this happened to a guy i knew.

a old neighbor decided to replace his bathroom floor. lose floorboard,
ran nail into water line, flood took down kitchen cieling..

need plumber, new cieling and contracted out bathroom redo.

so he decided cars would be his thing, took air cleaner off to adjust
carbuerator, reved engine, air cleaner housing dropped into fan went
thru radiator.

tow truck, new fan, new radiator, misc repairs, had carb replaced.

new DIYers be careful so we dont add your story to the list

my memorable event

did some plumbing, opened main valve with one connection still open to
flush lines, main valve failed couldnt shut off, had to call water
company who had great trouble finding main valve, as street had been
raised........

could of got arrested so upset i forgot to pay for valve at hardware
store, i just walked out, no register stop, the store owner who knew
me thought it funny, as my shoies went squish squish waterlogged as i
walked out..

just a memorable day for a home repairer.

a buddy of mine in detroit was doing some wiring, turned breaker back
on, all power in building went out, fact all power from detroit to new
york. that big power failure from some years ago........... wasnt his
fault but just imagine

now that was funny!!!!!

Never had even a single one of those, and I physically built the entire house.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

new work is safer, you know whats there.

old work is a pain cause you cant know where stuff is, like hidden
water phone and electric lines

I just installed a couple dishwashers, one for us and one for a
friend, and one for a friend, no screen washers,,,,,,,,,


They usually have one in the water inlet solenoid itself. Thankfully the
intake plumbing on a dishwasher is really simple. Copper tubing to a
compression fitting at the solenoid valve, and a hose out of that through a
nozzle into the washer compartment. The recirculation plumbing that does the
washing is separate and very hard to clog.

wrote:
On Feb 19, 6:50?pm, "Rod Speed" wrote:
wrote:
On Feb 19, 4:23?pm, wrote:
On Feb 18, 8:23 pm, "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator"

wrote:
I still feel badly that I didn't replace the plastic drain valve
with the brass ball valve because I was afraid the plastic was not
removable (that's what Sears salespeople said anyway, instilling
FUD in my mind).

Don't bother replacing the WH drain now. Fix the clogged dishwasher
instead.
Replace that factory drain valve in six months when you flush the
WH for your first maintenance interval.

As for that clogged dishwasher, you'll likely have to break the
bricks bricking it in in order to get to the innards.
Good luck. Ask questions. Take advice with a grain of salt.

And post back with your results!

donna is a nice new home owner. before you know it she will be like
most of us long termers, doing what we must, and ignoring drain
valves etc.

all she needs is doing one preventive maintence job that turns a
working whatever into a non functional disaster that costs a fortune
to fix.

i rather imagine most of us have been thru one of those.

kinda like pruning a tree, having a limb fall onto the roof, while
replacing ?damaged shingles fall off roof, hit power line, ripping
it off the side of the house. fortunately the poor fellow didnt get
shocked, or seriously hurt.

but the colateral costs, pay someone to finish tree trimming and
clean up, pay electrician to put service back on house, losts food
in fridge, power was off too long. my friend, spent nearly 2 days in
hospital, sent home on crutches.missed a week work no sick
time.......

this happened to a guy i knew.

a old neighbor decided to replace his bathroom floor. lose
floorboard, ran nail into water line, flood took down kitchen
cieling..

need plumber, new cieling and contracted out bathroom redo.

so he decided cars would be his thing, took air cleaner off to
adjust carbuerator, reved engine, air cleaner housing dropped into
fan went thru radiator.

tow truck, new fan, new radiator, misc repairs, had carb replaced.

new DIYers be careful so we dont add your story to the list

my memorable event

did some plumbing, opened main valve with one connection still open
to flush lines, main valve failed couldnt shut off, had to call
water company who had great trouble finding main valve, as street
had been raised........

could of got arrested so upset i forgot to pay for valve at hardware
store, i just walked out, no register stop, the store owner who knew
me thought it funny, as my shoies went squish squish waterlogged as
i walked out..

just a memorable day for a home repairer.

a buddy of mine in detroit was doing some wiring, turned breaker
back on, all power in building went out, fact all power from
detroit to new york. that big power failure from some years
ago........... wasnt his fault but just imagine

now that was funny!!!!!

Never had even a single one of those, and I physically built the
entire house.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

new work is safer, you know whats there.

old work is a pain cause you cant know where stuff is, like hidden
water phone and electric lines

I've never had anything like that with previous houses
either, and its easy enough to check for that stuff.

Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator wrote:
The only good thing was you had already admonished us to have tepid water
in the tank and that's what saved us from getting scalded as Bill stuck his
finger in the hole (it was just the right size) to stop the leak and I
bucketed the water outside.

Another trick to totally avoid the plastic drain valve is to have a 3/4"
pipe fitting ready that can attach to a hose, then unscrew and remove
the gas valve and thermostat assembly and slide the pipe and hose in its
place.

On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 17:30:23 GMT, James Sweet wrote:
The dishwasher is bricked in? Sheesh, how did they even manage that?
Fortunately most things can be accessed by removing the kick plate.

Hi James,
I'm going to try to remove that kick plate later this week.
I unclogged the shower yesterday; it was filled with sand grains:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2279233720/

I unclogged the kitchen sink with a scissors today.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2279233724/

Notice the sand grains on my cutting board.
They were all over the place!

This new sand does not look like the "scale" that was in the galvanized
pipes!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2273250265/

Where did all this sand come from?

Donna

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:37:11 +1100, Only Just wrote:
Any good installation of an appliance like a washing machine, dishwasher etc
should have a filter screen / rubber washer fitted to the hose fitting

I looked underneath today. There is a hose going to the garbage disposal
and another hose going to the faucet. There is a wire going to an
electrical outlet. I'll look more later this week as I had to visit my
grandchildren tonight and didn't get back home till late.

Here is what the dishwasher looks like:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2279233722/

When I take the kick plate off, I'll snap a picture and show you what that
"solonoid" looks like.

Donna

On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 15:52:48 -0800 (PST), N8N wrote:
I still err on the side of too much PM because

PM?