We have a small woodstove (Lopi Patriot model) and as anyone who uses a
woodstove knows, the air gets very dry when we use it. Dry eyes, dry noses,
and static electricity. So, I'd like to buy a steamer to set on the stove
to add moisture back into the air.

Unfortunately, all of the steamers and kettles I have seen are rather large
and wouldn't fit on the top of our small woodstove very nicely.

So, I'm curious if anyone knows where I could find a SMALL steamer (to fit
on a 6" ledge), or what other options I might have for setting on the
stove. I don't have a lot of money right now, so I'd prefer something under
$50. It should also be black to match the stove, it shouldn't rust or leave
marks on the stove, and it shouldn't be damaged if it runs out of water.

I'm currently using a glass pyrex dish which has helped with the air
situation, but doesn't look very attractive. I'm also worried about it
cracking when I need to add more water, and don't know what would happen if
it ran dry.

Thanks,

Anthony

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 08:31:07 -0600, HerHusband
wrote:

We have a small woodstove (Lopi Patriot model) and as anyone who uses a
woodstove knows, the air gets very dry when we use it. Dry eyes, dry noses,
and static electricity. So, I'd like to buy a steamer to set on the stove
to add moisture back into the air.

Unfortunately, all of the steamers and kettles I have seen are rather large
and wouldn't fit on the top of our small woodstove very nicely.

So, I'm curious if anyone knows where I could find a SMALL steamer (to fit
on a 6" ledge), or what other options I might have for setting on the
stove. I don't have a lot of money right now, so I'd prefer something under
$50. It should also be black to match the stove, it shouldn't rust or leave
marks on the stove, and it shouldn't be damaged if it runs out of water.

I'm currently using a glass pyrex dish which has helped with the air
situation, but doesn't look very attractive. I'm also worried about it
cracking when I need to add more water, and don't know what would happen if
it ran dry.

Thanks,

Anthony

Your Pyrex dish sounds perfect--easy to clean, easy to see water
level, fairly easy to clean, no rust, inexpensive. If glass is hot
and dry never get it wet until it completely cools to room
temperature. I bought a tea kettle (for $1 at Goodwill) to use a wood
steamer for my shop--still works well after 12 years of use.

On Nov 14, 12:07 pm, Phisherman wrote:
On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 08:31:07 -0600, HerHusband
wrote:





We have a small woodstove (Lopi Patriot model) and as anyone who uses a
woodstove knows, the air gets very dry when we use it. Dry eyes, dry noses,
and static electricity. So, I'd like to buy a steamer to set on the stove
to add moisture back into the air.

Unfortunately, all of the steamers and kettles I have seen are rather large
and wouldn't fit on the top of our small woodstove very nicely.

So, I'm curious if anyone knows where I could find a SMALL steamer (to fit
on a 6" ledge), or what other options I might have for setting on the
stove. I don't have a lot of money right now, so I'd prefer something under
$50. It should also be black to match the stove, it shouldn't rust or leave
marks on the stove, and it shouldn't be damaged if it runs out of water.

I'm currently using a glass pyrex dish which has helped with the air
situation, but doesn't look very attractive. I'm also worried about it
cracking when I need to add more water, and don't know what would happen if
it ran dry.

Thanks,

Anthony

Your Pyrex dish sounds perfect--easy to clean, easy to see water
level, fairly easy to clean, no rust, inexpensive. If glass is hot
and dry never get it wet until it completely cools to room
temperature. I bought a tea kettle (for $1 at Goodwill) to use a wood
steamer for my shop--still works well after 12 years of use. - Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Seems like a lot of fuss to get a bit of moisture in a room! Was going
to suggest a stainless steel bowl of some kind, no problems with it
cracking which might occur if new cold water was added to an empty hot
pyrex dish. Also stainless does not rust.
A stainless container could be of any size suitable; as small as a
small milk jug/sugar bowl or as large as a mixing bowl.
And yes, pick up something suitable for 50- cents or a buck at the
good will store.
If you want fancy maybe you have a vintage copper saucepan that would
look 'nice' somewhere.
Another alterntive, which we used 45 years ago, when our first was in
diapers (nappies) was to hang damp clothes on a 'clothes horse' near
the stove after we had put them through the wringer.
That baby is now a departmental manager with a staff of 60 and her own
all-electric house!
Have fun.

HerHusband wrote:

... the air gets very dry when we use it.

Not necessarily, with a fairly airtight woodstove in a fairly airtight house.
It might only need 10 cfm of combustion air, vs an average US house that
naturally leaks 225 cfm or ASHRAE's 15 cfm per occupant fresh air standard.

I'd like to buy a steamer to set on the stove...

Evaporating water takes heat energy, ie more firewood. Airsealing the house
will raise the humidity and decrease the need for heating energy, ie firewood.

Nick

On Nov 14, 6:31 am, HerHusband wrote:
We have a small woodstove (Lopi Patriot model) and as anyone who uses a
woodstove knows, the air gets very dry when we use it. Dry eyes, dry noses,
and static electricity. So, I'd like to buy a steamer to set on the stove
to add moisture back into the air.

Unfortunately, all of the steamers and kettles I have seen are rather large
and wouldn't fit on the top of our small woodstove very nicely.

So, I'm curious if anyone knows where I could find a SMALL steamer (to fit
on a 6" ledge), or what other options I might have for setting on the
stove. I don't have a lot of money right now, so I'd prefer something under
$50. It should also be black to match the stove, it shouldn't rust or leave
marks on the stove, and it shouldn't be damaged if it runs out of water.

I'm currently using a glass pyrex dish which has helped with the air
situation, but doesn't look very attractive. I'm also worried about it
cracking when I need to add more water, and don't know what would happen if
it ran dry.

Thanks,

Anthony

We use a common aluminum large kettle - not attactive but practical.
The 6" limitation really cuts down on options - can't see a very large
capacity anything fitting that. Just have to keep on top of filling
whatever you use. We originally tryed using a whistling teakettle -
that lasted only a few days due to the annoyance factor and it
wouldn't hold enough water.

Drawback of pots/pans/bowls/trays whatever for that is the minerals in
the water. The water evaporates and leaves them behind encrusting the
container. Thus a clear container will soon look very ugly unless
cleaned regulary and that stuff doesn't come off easily. Our kettle
has been in operation for over 20 years and has a constant thin layer
of minerals - as it thickens it tends to flake off. My BIL in Canada
had so much sulphur in his water that his kettle would build a _thick_
layer in one season.

Harry K

On Nov 14, 8:09 am, wrote:
HerHusband wrote:
... the air gets very dry when we use it.

Not necessarily, with a fairly airtight woodstove in a fairly airtight house.
It might only need 10 cfm of combustion air, vs an average US house that
naturally leaks 225 cfm or ASHRAE's 15 cfm per occupant fresh air standard.

I'd like to buy a steamer to set on the stove...

Evaporating water takes heat energy, ie more firewood. Airsealing the house
will raise the humidity and decrease the need for heating energy, ie firewood.

Nick

The additional humidity provided will, or should, result in less
firewood. You can feel comfortable in a more humid atmosphere at
lower temp. In any case, the energy that goes into evaporating a
quart or so of water a day isn't enough to be of concern.

Harry K

A simple tea kettle will do! (Not the whistling kind...)


"HerHusband" wrote in message
We have a small woodstove (Lopi Patriot model) and as anyone who uses a
woodstove knows, the air gets very dry when we use it. Dry eyes, dry
noses,
and static electricity. So, I'd like to buy a steamer to set on the stove
to add moisture back into the air.

Unfortunately, all of the steamers and kettles I have seen are rather
large
and wouldn't fit on the top of our small woodstove very nicely.

So, I'm curious if anyone knows where I could find a SMALL steamer (to fit
on a 6" ledge), or what other options I might have for setting on the
stove. I don't have a lot of money right now, so I'd prefer something
under
$50. It should also be black to match the stove, it shouldn't rust or
leave
marks on the stove, and it shouldn't be damaged if it runs out of water.

I'm currently using a glass pyrex dish which has helped with the air
situation, but doesn't look very attractive. I'm also worried about it
cracking when I need to add more water, and don't know what would happen
if
it ran dry.

Thanks,

Anthony

Yet another option: on bringing wood indoors, stack it up with butts
facing the stove sides for a few days. Moisture is released into house,
and wood burns better and more cleanly. IME, no matter how it's stored
outside.

I made a few simple small racks to support such stacks, and place them a
couple of feet from stove sides, so wood temps do not exceed 150 deg F.

Do NOT EVER allow any flammables near stove to get so hot that you
cannot hold your hand on side facing stove.

After a couple of days, move the wood farther away. YMWV.

FWIW, woodstoves do NOT dry the air. RH may drop, as with any other
heating appliance. Biggest reason for drying you point to is
infiltration of outside air with low absolute humidity.

John

HerHusband wrote:
We have a small woodstove (Lopi Patriot model) and as anyone who uses a
woodstove knows, the air gets very dry when we use it. Dry eyes, dry noses,
and static electricity. So, I'd like to buy a steamer to set on the stove
to add moisture back into the air.

Unfortunately, all of the steamers and kettles I have seen are rather large
and wouldn't fit on the top of our small woodstove very nicely.

So, I'm curious if anyone knows where I could find a SMALL steamer (to fit
on a 6" ledge), or what other options I might have for setting on the
stove. I don't have a lot of money right now, so I'd prefer something under
$50. It should also be black to match the stove, it shouldn't rust or leave
marks on the stove, and it shouldn't be damaged if it runs out of water.

I'm currently using a glass pyrex dish which has helped with the air
situation, but doesn't look very attractive. I'm also worried about it
cracking when I need to add more water, and don't know what would happen if
it ran dry.

Thanks,

Anthony

"HerHusband" wrote

So, I'm curious if anyone knows where I could find a SMALL steamer (to fit
on a 6" ledge), or what other options I might have for setting on the
stove. I don't have a lot of money right now, so I'd prefer something
under
$50. It should also be black to match the stove, it shouldn't rust or
leave
marks on the stove, and it shouldn't be damaged if it runs out of water.

Interesting! I'm used to seeing ones that are much bigger and a copper
kettle.

Here's an idea. It *might* break from the heat but it won't hurt anything
if it does. If you have access to a sort of inexpensive asian grocery type
place, they have those little ceramic teapots. They are actually quite
sturdy under a brazier and can look very charming. Lots of color choices,
you should be able to get one for 10$ or less. I think they will work as
they generally only have a problem with rapid temp changes. For 20$, you
might find a copper one (wont rust). My other ideas lead to terracotta sort
of. The lower bowls you set under planters, this time filled partway with
some black smoothe rocks?

Yard sales might have all those items. Careful on metal as you do not want
rust (solid copper or brass is fine though).

Harry K wrote:

On Nov 14, 8:09 am, wrote:
HerHusband wrote:
... the air gets very dry when we use it.

Not necessarily, with a fairly airtight woodstove in a fairly airtight house.
It might only need 10 cfm of combustion air, vs an average US house that
naturally leaks 225 cfm or ASHRAE's 15 cfm per occupant fresh air standard.

I'd like to buy a steamer to set on the stove...

Evaporating water takes heat energy, ie more firewood. Airsealing the house
will raise the humidity and decrease the need for heating energy, ie firewood.

The additional humidity provided will, or should, result in less firewood.

Wrong.

You can feel comfortable in a more humid atmosphere at lower temp.

But evaporating the water requires 10 times more energy than
keeping the house warmer, for equivalent comfort.

In any case, the energy that goes into evaporating a quart or so
of water a day isn't enough to be of concern.

A quart or so won't make much difference. Andersen estimates that
a typical family of 4 evaporates 2 gallons per day in breathing,
cooking, cleaning, showering, and so on.

How much will a quart a day raise the indoor RH if w = 0.0025 outdoors
and a house leaks 225 cfm? How much will 2 gallons raise the RH if
the house leaks 15 cfm?

This is a matter of science, vs old wive's tales :-)

Nick

wrote:

This is a matter of science, vs old wive's tales :-)

Depends heavily on your proximity to the stove. A steamer makes a big difference
when you spend time near the stove. My old wife told me that.

With some diffusion equations? :-)

Nick

wrote:

I have introduced just ONE obvious factor that makes all your equations useless
and irrelevent.

Wrong :-)

Nick

We have radiators and a woodstove. This is our first house and the other
places that we lived all had forced air heat. After our first winter here,
we had nasal issues and very dry skin. Our family Dr. told us to get a
humidity meter and put coffe cups filled with water on our radiators. Since
we have a baby, we also have a vaporizor. I filled it up and sure enough the
humidity level in the house came into comfortable levels. Now we have two
"cool mist" vaporizers, one for the first floor and one for the second.
Works great! Once we get the SS chimney up I am hoping that by putting a
cast iron pot with water on the stove top will work as well as the
vaporizers.

They also make small hang on pots for radiators that hang on the front,
but they are so small that you would have to fill them at least twice a day.
Plus you would probably have to have one on every radiator.
In my shop I have a kerosene heater on top I put a SS stock pot filled half
with water and this works great...


SD

wrote in message
...
wrote:

I have introduced just ONE obvious factor that makes all your equations
useless
and irrelevent.

Wrong :-)

Nick

The rest of us saw the other factor that trumps any and all equations. No
sense of humor, Nick?

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

The rest of us saw the other factor that trumps any and all equations.

Putting your head into the steamer pot would help :-)

No sense of humor, Nick?

Just physics :-)

Nick

... the air gets very dry when we use it.
Not necessarily, with a fairly airtight
woodstove in a fairly airtight house.

I couldn't explain the physics behind it, but I can attest to the dry air
when we use the woodstove.

We have a fairly airtight house (built in 2003/2004), but also have a fresh
air ventilation system as required by Washington state building codes. So
we always have fresh air entering the house.

The woodstove has it's own external air supply and doesn't take air from
our living space.

It's not too bad if the weather is rainy, but if it's a cool dry day, it
only takes a couple of hours before our noses start feeling dry, and we
start getting lots of static shocks.

Evaporating water takes heat energy, ie more firewood.

Our small woodstove puts off way more heat than we need to heat up the
house comfortably, so a little heat loss to evaporate the water is a minor
issue. I doubt blocking a small 6"x9" area on the top of the stove is going
to make much difference anyway, since a lot of heat seems to come from the
front and sides.

decrease the need for heating energy, ie firewood.

We only use our woodstove for supplimental heat. Mostly for the romantic
aspect and for power outages. A cord of wood can last us almost two years.
I'm not too worried about using a little extra firewood.

Anthony

I'm curious if anyone knows where I could find
a SMALL steamer (to fit on a 6" ledge)

Your Pyrex dish sounds perfect--easy to clean, easy to see water
level, fairly easy to clean, no rust, inexpensive. If glass is hot
and dry never get it wet until it completely cools to room
temperature.

I'm using a 5x9 pyrex baking dish, which works well for adding moisture to
the air, but it's when I need to add water that I get nervous. I make sure
to add water before it gets empty, and try to get the water as hot as
possible from the tap before adding it, but I still worry about it
cracking.

I'd also like to find something that "looks" a little nicer.

Anthony

On Nov 15, 6:44 am, HerHusband wrote:
... the air gets very dry when we use it.
Not necessarily, with a fairly airtight
woodstove in a fairly airtight house.

I couldn't explain the physics behind it, but I can attest to the dry air
when we use the woodstove.

We have a fairly airtight house (built in 2003/2004), but also have a fresh
air ventilation system as required by Washington state building codes. So
we always have fresh air entering the house.

The woodstove has it's own external air supply and doesn't take air from
our living space.

It's not too bad if the weather is rainy, but if it's a cool dry day, it
only takes a couple of hours before our noses start feeling dry, and we
start getting lots of static shocks.

Evaporating water takes heat energy, ie more firewood.

Our small woodstove puts off way more heat than we need to heat up the
house comfortably, so a little heat loss to evaporate the water is a minor
issue. I doubt blocking a small 6"x9" area on the top of the stove is going
to make much difference anyway, since a lot of heat seems to come from the
front and sides.

decrease the need for heating energy, ie firewood.

We only use our woodstove for supplimental heat. Mostly for the romantic
aspect and for power outages. A cord of wood can last us almost two years.
I'm not too worried about using a little extra firewood.

Anthony

Same here. A gallon of water/day (about my use) adds up to a _lot_ of
vapor. Here also, any loss of heat is not noticeable as the wife runs
it too warm anyhow.

Harry K

On Nov 15, 8:17 am, still just me wrote:
On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 08:02:49 -0800 (PST), Harry K

wrote:
Same here. A gallon of water/day (about my use) adds up to a _lot_ of
vapor.

You get your wood stove to evaporate a gallon a day?

Here also, any loss of heat is not noticeable as the wife runs
it too warm anyhow.

Get rid of the wife. Solves all sorts of problems.

Pretty close to a gallon (never measured it) but the stove runs 24
hours a day. shut all drafts down when I go to bed.

Harry K

HerHusband wrote:

... I can attest to the dry air when we use the woodstove.

Sounds like the stove is not airtight, ergo also inefficient.

We have a fairly airtight house (built in 2003/2004)

Less than 0.2 ACH, ie 4 ACH at 50 Pa with a blower door test?

but also have a fresh air ventilation system as required by Washington
state building codes. So we always have fresh air entering the house.

You might do well to turn it off, or only turn it on when the house RH
rises to 60%, automatically, using a $30 humidistat switch. A perfectly
airtight house would require DEhumidification in wintertime...

The woodstove has it's own external air supply and doesn't take air from
our living space.

If the combustion air supply goes right into the woodstove, vs into
the room air surrounding the woodstove, it shouldn't lower the room
air humidity,

Evaporating water takes heat energy, ie more firewood.

Our small woodstove puts off way more heat than we need to heat up the house
comfortably, so a little heat loss to evaporate the water is a minor issue.

It takes 1000 Btu to evaporate a pound of water, and dry wood makes about
10K Btu when burned, but more house airsealing raise the house RH and
REDUCE vs increase the amount of wood or other fuel burning required.

I doubt blocking a small 6"x9" area on the top of the stove is going to make
much difference anyway, since a lot of heat seems to come from
the front and sides.

I'm afraid that's irrelevant.

Nick

Nick,

Less than 0.2 ACH, ie 4 ACH at 50 Pa with a blower door test?
It takes 1000 Btu to evaporate a pound of water, and dry wood makes
about 10K Btu when burned

The stats are fine and dandy, but what matters to me is the real world
situation. When I burn wood in the woodstove, the air gets dry. Simple as
that.

Our house is sealed and insulated well with good windows. The woodstove is
fairly new and has good efficiency ratings. The ventilation system
noticeably improves the air quality in the house.

Given a choice between setting a pan of water on the woodstove, or updating
the house/woodstove/shutting off the ventilation system, I'll choose the
pan of water.

more house airsealing raise the house RH and REDUCE vs increase
the amount of wood or other fuel burning required.

Short of wrapping the house in a plastic bubble, I don't think there's much
more I could do to better seal the house. We built our own home, and I paid
extra attention to sealing gaps and whatnot during construction.

Anthony

HerHusband wrote:

Less than 0.2 ACH, ie 4 ACH at 50 Pa with a blower door test?

Well?

It takes 1000 Btu to evaporate a pound of water, and dry wood makes
about 10K Btu when burned

When I burn wood in the woodstove, the air gets dry.

A combustion air supply that dumps into the room vs the stove itself
can bring in lots of dry outdoor air and let more humid house air
leave via the chimney.

The ventilation system noticeably improves the air quality in the house.

Run it with a humidistat...

Given a choice between setting a pan of water on the woodstove, or updating
the house/woodstove/shutting off the ventilation system, I'll choose the
pan of water.

Ignorance is bliss :-)

more house airsealing raise the house RH and REDUCE vs increase
the amount of wood or other fuel burning required.

Short of wrapping the house in a plastic bubble

An outdoor vapor barrier with soggy insulation and rotting studs? :-)

... I don't think there's much more I could do to better seal the house.

You might get a blower door test or do more airsealing on your own,
with a window exhaust fan and a $60 Kestrel 1000 air velocity meter.

Nick

On Nov 16, 8:03 am, wrote:
HerHusband wrote:
Less than 0.2 ACH, ie 4 ACH at 50 Pa with a blower door test?

Well?

It takes 1000 Btu to evaporate a pound of water, and dry wood makes
about 10K Btu when burned

When I burn wood in the woodstove, the air gets dry.

A combustion air supply that dumps into the room vs the stove itself
can bring in lots of dry outdoor air and let more humid house air
leave via the chimney.

The ventilation system noticeably improves the air quality in the house.

Run it with a humidistat...

Given a choice between setting a pan of water on the woodstove, or updating
the house/woodstove/shutting off the ventilation system, I'll choose the
pan of water.

Ignorance is bliss :-)

more house airsealing raise the house RH and REDUCE vs increase
the amount of wood or other fuel burning required.

Short of wrapping the house in a plastic bubble

An outdoor vapor barrier with soggy insulation and rotting studs? :-)

... I don't think there's much more I could do to better seal the house.

You might get a blower door test or do more airsealing on your own,
with a window exhaust fan and a $60 Kestrel 1000 air velocity meter.

Nick

You are coming across as a typical egg-head scientist. While your
'theory' is correct, in pratice it ain't either practical or even
real. If you are worried about a an extra 1000 btu out of many
thousands... especially since those 1000 btu are excess anyhow in most
cases when heating with wood.

Reminds me of the guy who pointed out that science had solved the GW
due to CO2 problem by treating the atmosphere which allowed the excess
co2 to be absorbed rapidly in the oceans. I pointed out that what
works in the lab ain't realistic when applied to thosands of cubic
kilometers of atmosphere.

Harry K

The ventilation system noticeably improves the air
quality in the house.

Run it with a humidistat...

So air quality is based only on humidity? OK, got it. Dry air is clean air.

Hmm... You better show me the calculations on that, and can you provide the
current acceptable levels of various particulates in the average American
household? I want to be sure I understand all the processes involved so I
can make an informed decision.

Ignorance is bliss :-)

Ignorance is providing answers that do not apply to the question.

I didn't ask what was wrong with my house or woodstove that caused the air
to be dry. I asked for a source of small woodstove steamers.

It would be easier to just not use the woodstove than to apply all your
suggestions.

Anthony

Harry K wrote:

You are coming across as a typical egg-head scientist.

You are coming across as a person who cannot spell :-)

While your 'theory' is correct, in pratice it ain't either practical
or even real.

I disagree.

Nick

On Nov 14, 9:31 am, HerHusband wrote:
We have a small woodstove (Lopi Patriot model) and as anyone who uses a
woodstove knows, the air gets very dry when we use it. Dry eyes, dry noses,
and static electricity. So, I'd like to buy a steamer to set on the stove
to add moisture back into the air.

Unfortunately, all of the steamers and kettles I have seen are rather large
and wouldn't fit on the top of our small woodstove very nicely.
There are a bunch of them here
http://www.plowhearth.com/category.a...os=& cm_type=

Karen


So, I'm curious if anyone knows where I could find a SMALL steamer (to fit
on a 6" ledge), or what other options I might have for setting on the
stove. I don't have a lot of money right now, so I'd prefer something under
$50. It should also be black to match the stove, it shouldn't rust or leave
marks on the stove, and it shouldn't be damaged if it runs out of water.

I'm currently using a glass pyrex dish which has helped with the air
situation, but doesn't look very attractive. I'm also worried about it
cracking when I need to add more water, and don't know what would happen if
it ran dry.

Thanks,

Anthony