Woodstove Steamers?
We have a small woodstove (Lopi Patriot model) and as anyone who uses a
woodstove knows, the air gets very dry when we use it. Dry eyes, dry noses, and static electricity. So, I'd like to buy a steamer to set on the stove to add moisture back into the air. Unfortunately, all of the steamers and kettles I have seen are rather large and wouldn't fit on the top of our small woodstove very nicely. So, I'm curious if anyone knows where I could find a SMALL steamer (to fit on a 6" ledge), or what other options I might have for setting on the stove. I don't have a lot of money right now, so I'd prefer something under $50. It should also be black to match the stove, it shouldn't rust or leave marks on the stove, and it shouldn't be damaged if it runs out of water. I'm currently using a glass pyrex dish which has helped with the air situation, but doesn't look very attractive. I'm also worried about it cracking when I need to add more water, and don't know what would happen if it ran dry. Thanks, Anthony |
Woodstove Steamers?
On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 08:31:07 -0600, HerHusband
wrote: We have a small woodstove (Lopi Patriot model) and as anyone who uses a woodstove knows, the air gets very dry when we use it. Dry eyes, dry noses, and static electricity. So, I'd like to buy a steamer to set on the stove to add moisture back into the air. Unfortunately, all of the steamers and kettles I have seen are rather large and wouldn't fit on the top of our small woodstove very nicely. So, I'm curious if anyone knows where I could find a SMALL steamer (to fit on a 6" ledge), or what other options I might have for setting on the stove. I don't have a lot of money right now, so I'd prefer something under $50. It should also be black to match the stove, it shouldn't rust or leave marks on the stove, and it shouldn't be damaged if it runs out of water. I'm currently using a glass pyrex dish which has helped with the air situation, but doesn't look very attractive. I'm also worried about it cracking when I need to add more water, and don't know what would happen if it ran dry. Thanks, Anthony Your Pyrex dish sounds perfect--easy to clean, easy to see water level, fairly easy to clean, no rust, inexpensive. If glass is hot and dry never get it wet until it completely cools to room temperature. I bought a tea kettle (for $1 at Goodwill) to use a wood steamer for my shop--still works well after 12 years of use. |
Woodstove Steamers?
On Nov 14, 12:07 pm, Phisherman wrote:
On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 08:31:07 -0600, HerHusband wrote: We have a small woodstove (Lopi Patriot model) and as anyone who uses a woodstove knows, the air gets very dry when we use it. Dry eyes, dry noses, and static electricity. So, I'd like to buy a steamer to set on the stove to add moisture back into the air. Unfortunately, all of the steamers and kettles I have seen are rather large and wouldn't fit on the top of our small woodstove very nicely. So, I'm curious if anyone knows where I could find a SMALL steamer (to fit on a 6" ledge), or what other options I might have for setting on the stove. I don't have a lot of money right now, so I'd prefer something under $50. It should also be black to match the stove, it shouldn't rust or leave marks on the stove, and it shouldn't be damaged if it runs out of water. I'm currently using a glass pyrex dish which has helped with the air situation, but doesn't look very attractive. I'm also worried about it cracking when I need to add more water, and don't know what would happen if it ran dry. Thanks, Anthony Your Pyrex dish sounds perfect--easy to clean, easy to see water level, fairly easy to clean, no rust, inexpensive. If glass is hot and dry never get it wet until it completely cools to room temperature. I bought a tea kettle (for $1 at Goodwill) to use a wood steamer for my shop--still works well after 12 years of use. - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Seems like a lot of fuss to get a bit of moisture in a room! Was going to suggest a stainless steel bowl of some kind, no problems with it cracking which might occur if new cold water was added to an empty hot pyrex dish. Also stainless does not rust. A stainless container could be of any size suitable; as small as a small milk jug/sugar bowl or as large as a mixing bowl. And yes, pick up something suitable for 50- cents or a buck at the good will store. If you want fancy maybe you have a vintage copper saucepan that would look 'nice' somewhere. Another alterntive, which we used 45 years ago, when our first was in diapers (nappies) was to hang damp clothes on a 'clothes horse' near the stove after we had put them through the wringer. That baby is now a departmental manager with a staff of 60 and her own all-electric house! Have fun. |
Woodstove Steamers?
HerHusband wrote:
... the air gets very dry when we use it. Not necessarily, with a fairly airtight woodstove in a fairly airtight house. It might only need 10 cfm of combustion air, vs an average US house that naturally leaks 225 cfm or ASHRAE's 15 cfm per occupant fresh air standard. I'd like to buy a steamer to set on the stove... Evaporating water takes heat energy, ie more firewood. Airsealing the house will raise the humidity and decrease the need for heating energy, ie firewood. Nick |
Woodstove Steamers?
On Nov 14, 6:31 am, HerHusband wrote:
We have a small woodstove (Lopi Patriot model) and as anyone who uses a woodstove knows, the air gets very dry when we use it. Dry eyes, dry noses, and static electricity. So, I'd like to buy a steamer to set on the stove to add moisture back into the air. Unfortunately, all of the steamers and kettles I have seen are rather large and wouldn't fit on the top of our small woodstove very nicely. So, I'm curious if anyone knows where I could find a SMALL steamer (to fit on a 6" ledge), or what other options I might have for setting on the stove. I don't have a lot of money right now, so I'd prefer something under $50. It should also be black to match the stove, it shouldn't rust or leave marks on the stove, and it shouldn't be damaged if it runs out of water. I'm currently using a glass pyrex dish which has helped with the air situation, but doesn't look very attractive. I'm also worried about it cracking when I need to add more water, and don't know what would happen if it ran dry. Thanks, Anthony We use a common aluminum large kettle - not attactive but practical. The 6" limitation really cuts down on options - can't see a very large capacity anything fitting that. Just have to keep on top of filling whatever you use. We originally tryed using a whistling teakettle - that lasted only a few days due to the annoyance factor and it wouldn't hold enough water. Drawback of pots/pans/bowls/trays whatever for that is the minerals in the water. The water evaporates and leaves them behind encrusting the container. Thus a clear container will soon look very ugly unless cleaned regulary and that stuff doesn't come off easily. Our kettle has been in operation for over 20 years and has a constant thin layer of minerals - as it thickens it tends to flake off. My BIL in Canada had so much sulphur in his water that his kettle would build a _thick_ layer in one season. Harry K |
Woodstove Steamers?
On Nov 14, 8:09 am, wrote:
HerHusband wrote: ... the air gets very dry when we use it. Not necessarily, with a fairly airtight woodstove in a fairly airtight house. It might only need 10 cfm of combustion air, vs an average US house that naturally leaks 225 cfm or ASHRAE's 15 cfm per occupant fresh air standard. I'd like to buy a steamer to set on the stove... Evaporating water takes heat energy, ie more firewood. Airsealing the house will raise the humidity and decrease the need for heating energy, ie firewood. Nick The additional humidity provided will, or should, result in less firewood. You can feel comfortable in a more humid atmosphere at lower temp. In any case, the energy that goes into evaporating a quart or so of water a day isn't enough to be of concern. Harry K |
Woodstove Steamers?
A simple tea kettle will do! (Not the whistling kind...)
"HerHusband" wrote in message We have a small woodstove (Lopi Patriot model) and as anyone who uses a woodstove knows, the air gets very dry when we use it. Dry eyes, dry noses, and static electricity. So, I'd like to buy a steamer to set on the stove to add moisture back into the air. Unfortunately, all of the steamers and kettles I have seen are rather large and wouldn't fit on the top of our small woodstove very nicely. So, I'm curious if anyone knows where I could find a SMALL steamer (to fit on a 6" ledge), or what other options I might have for setting on the stove. I don't have a lot of money right now, so I'd prefer something under $50. It should also be black to match the stove, it shouldn't rust or leave marks on the stove, and it shouldn't be damaged if it runs out of water. I'm currently using a glass pyrex dish which has helped with the air situation, but doesn't look very attractive. I'm also worried about it cracking when I need to add more water, and don't know what would happen if it ran dry. Thanks, Anthony |
Woodstove Steamers?
Yet another option: on bringing wood indoors, stack it up with butts
facing the stove sides for a few days. Moisture is released into house, and wood burns better and more cleanly. IME, no matter how it's stored outside. I made a few simple small racks to support such stacks, and place them a couple of feet from stove sides, so wood temps do not exceed 150 deg F. Do NOT EVER allow any flammables near stove to get so hot that you cannot hold your hand on side facing stove. After a couple of days, move the wood farther away. YMWV. FWIW, woodstoves do NOT dry the air. RH may drop, as with any other heating appliance. Biggest reason for drying you point to is infiltration of outside air with low absolute humidity. John HerHusband wrote: We have a small woodstove (Lopi Patriot model) and as anyone who uses a woodstove knows, the air gets very dry when we use it. Dry eyes, dry noses, and static electricity. So, I'd like to buy a steamer to set on the stove to add moisture back into the air. Unfortunately, all of the steamers and kettles I have seen are rather large and wouldn't fit on the top of our small woodstove very nicely. So, I'm curious if anyone knows where I could find a SMALL steamer (to fit on a 6" ledge), or what other options I might have for setting on the stove. I don't have a lot of money right now, so I'd prefer something under $50. It should also be black to match the stove, it shouldn't rust or leave marks on the stove, and it shouldn't be damaged if it runs out of water. I'm currently using a glass pyrex dish which has helped with the air situation, but doesn't look very attractive. I'm also worried about it cracking when I need to add more water, and don't know what would happen if it ran dry. Thanks, Anthony |
Woodstove Steamers?
"HerHusband" wrote So, I'm curious if anyone knows where I could find a SMALL steamer (to fit on a 6" ledge), or what other options I might have for setting on the stove. I don't have a lot of money right now, so I'd prefer something under $50. It should also be black to match the stove, it shouldn't rust or leave marks on the stove, and it shouldn't be damaged if it runs out of water. Interesting! I'm used to seeing ones that are much bigger and a copper kettle. Here's an idea. It *might* break from the heat but it won't hurt anything if it does. If you have access to a sort of inexpensive asian grocery type place, they have those little ceramic teapots. They are actually quite sturdy under a brazier and can look very charming. Lots of color choices, you should be able to get one for 10$ or less. I think they will work as they generally only have a problem with rapid temp changes. For 20$, you might find a copper one (wont rust). My other ideas lead to terracotta sort of. The lower bowls you set under planters, this time filled partway with some black smoothe rocks? Yard sales might have all those items. Careful on metal as you do not want rust (solid copper or brass is fine though). |
Woodstove Steamers?
Harry K wrote:
On Nov 14, 8:09 am, wrote: HerHusband wrote: ... the air gets very dry when we use it. Not necessarily, with a fairly airtight woodstove in a fairly airtight house. It might only need 10 cfm of combustion air, vs an average US house that naturally leaks 225 cfm or ASHRAE's 15 cfm per occupant fresh air standard. I'd like to buy a steamer to set on the stove... Evaporating water takes heat energy, ie more firewood. Airsealing the house will raise the humidity and decrease the need for heating energy, ie firewood. The additional humidity provided will, or should, result in less firewood. Wrong. You can feel comfortable in a more humid atmosphere at lower temp. But evaporating the water requires 10 times more energy than keeping the house warmer, for equivalent comfort. In any case, the energy that goes into evaporating a quart or so of water a day isn't enough to be of concern. A quart or so won't make much difference. Andersen estimates that a typical family of 4 evaporates 2 gallons per day in breathing, cooking, cleaning, showering, and so on. How much will a quart a day raise the indoor RH if w = 0.0025 outdoors and a house leaks 225 cfm? How much will 2 gallons raise the RH if the house leaks 15 cfm? This is a matter of science, vs old wive's tales :-) Nick |
Woodstove Steamers?
wrote:
This is a matter of science, vs old wive's tales :-) Depends heavily on your proximity to the stove. A steamer makes a big difference when you spend time near the stove. My old wife told me that. With some diffusion equations? :-) Nick |
Woodstove Steamers?
wrote:
I have introduced just ONE obvious factor that makes all your equations useless and irrelevent. Wrong :-) Nick |
Woodstove Steamers?
We have radiators and a woodstove. This is our first house and the other
places that we lived all had forced air heat. After our first winter here, we had nasal issues and very dry skin. Our family Dr. told us to get a humidity meter and put coffe cups filled with water on our radiators. Since we have a baby, we also have a vaporizor. I filled it up and sure enough the humidity level in the house came into comfortable levels. Now we have two "cool mist" vaporizers, one for the first floor and one for the second. Works great! Once we get the SS chimney up I am hoping that by putting a cast iron pot with water on the stove top will work as well as the vaporizers. They also make small hang on pots for radiators that hang on the front, but they are so small that you would have to fill them at least twice a day. Plus you would probably have to have one on every radiator. In my shop I have a kerosene heater on top I put a SS stock pot filled half with water and this works great... SD |
Woodstove Steamers?
wrote in message ... wrote: I have introduced just ONE obvious factor that makes all your equations useless and irrelevent. Wrong :-) Nick The rest of us saw the other factor that trumps any and all equations. No sense of humor, Nick? |
Woodstove Steamers?
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
The rest of us saw the other factor that trumps any and all equations. Putting your head into the steamer pot would help :-) No sense of humor, Nick? Just physics :-) Nick |
Woodstove Steamers?
... the air gets very dry when we use it.
Not necessarily, with a fairly airtight woodstove in a fairly airtight house. I couldn't explain the physics behind it, but I can attest to the dry air when we use the woodstove. We have a fairly airtight house (built in 2003/2004), but also have a fresh air ventilation system as required by Washington state building codes. So we always have fresh air entering the house. The woodstove has it's own external air supply and doesn't take air from our living space. It's not too bad if the weather is rainy, but if it's a cool dry day, it only takes a couple of hours before our noses start feeling dry, and we start getting lots of static shocks. Evaporating water takes heat energy, ie more firewood. Our small woodstove puts off way more heat than we need to heat up the house comfortably, so a little heat loss to evaporate the water is a minor issue. I doubt blocking a small 6"x9" area on the top of the stove is going to make much difference anyway, since a lot of heat seems to come from the front and sides. decrease the need for heating energy, ie firewood. We only use our woodstove for supplimental heat. Mostly for the romantic aspect and for power outages. A cord of wood can last us almost two years. I'm not too worried about using a little extra firewood. Anthony |
Woodstove Steamers?
I'm curious if anyone knows where I could find
a SMALL steamer (to fit on a 6" ledge) Your Pyrex dish sounds perfect--easy to clean, easy to see water level, fairly easy to clean, no rust, inexpensive. If glass is hot and dry never get it wet until it completely cools to room temperature. I'm using a 5x9 pyrex baking dish, which works well for adding moisture to the air, but it's when I need to add water that I get nervous. I make sure to add water before it gets empty, and try to get the water as hot as possible from the tap before adding it, but I still worry about it cracking. I'd also like to find something that "looks" a little nicer. :) Anthony |
Woodstove Steamers?
On Nov 15, 6:44 am, HerHusband wrote:
... the air gets very dry when we use it. Not necessarily, with a fairly airtight woodstove in a fairly airtight house. I couldn't explain the physics behind it, but I can attest to the dry air when we use the woodstove. We have a fairly airtight house (built in 2003/2004), but also have a fresh air ventilation system as required by Washington state building codes. So we always have fresh air entering the house. The woodstove has it's own external air supply and doesn't take air from our living space. It's not too bad if the weather is rainy, but if it's a cool dry day, it only takes a couple of hours before our noses start feeling dry, and we start getting lots of static shocks. Evaporating water takes heat energy, ie more firewood. Our small woodstove puts off way more heat than we need to heat up the house comfortably, so a little heat loss to evaporate the water is a minor issue. I doubt blocking a small 6"x9" area on the top of the stove is going to make much difference anyway, since a lot of heat seems to come from the front and sides. decrease the need for heating energy, ie firewood. We only use our woodstove for supplimental heat. Mostly for the romantic aspect and for power outages. A cord of wood can last us almost two years. I'm not too worried about using a little extra firewood. Anthony Same here. A gallon of water/day (about my use) adds up to a _lot_ of vapor. Here also, any loss of heat is not noticeable as the wife runs it too warm anyhow. Harry K |
Woodstove Steamers?
On Nov 15, 8:17 am, still just me wrote:
On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 08:02:49 -0800 (PST), Harry K wrote: Same here. A gallon of water/day (about my use) adds up to a _lot_ of vapor. You get your wood stove to evaporate a gallon a day? Here also, any loss of heat is not noticeable as the wife runs it too warm anyhow. Get rid of the wife. Solves all sorts of problems. Pretty close to a gallon (never measured it) but the stove runs 24 hours a day. shut all drafts down when I go to bed. Harry K |
Woodstove Steamers?
HerHusband wrote:
... I can attest to the dry air when we use the woodstove. Sounds like the stove is not airtight, ergo also inefficient. We have a fairly airtight house (built in 2003/2004) Less than 0.2 ACH, ie 4 ACH at 50 Pa with a blower door test? but also have a fresh air ventilation system as required by Washington state building codes. So we always have fresh air entering the house. You might do well to turn it off, or only turn it on when the house RH rises to 60%, automatically, using a $30 humidistat switch. A perfectly airtight house would require DEhumidification in wintertime... The woodstove has it's own external air supply and doesn't take air from our living space. If the combustion air supply goes right into the woodstove, vs into the room air surrounding the woodstove, it shouldn't lower the room air humidity, Evaporating water takes heat energy, ie more firewood. Our small woodstove puts off way more heat than we need to heat up the house comfortably, so a little heat loss to evaporate the water is a minor issue. It takes 1000 Btu to evaporate a pound of water, and dry wood makes about 10K Btu when burned, but more house airsealing raise the house RH and REDUCE vs increase the amount of wood or other fuel burning required. I doubt blocking a small 6"x9" area on the top of the stove is going to make much difference anyway, since a lot of heat seems to come from the front and sides. I'm afraid that's irrelevant. Nick |
Woodstove Steamers?
Nick,
Less than 0.2 ACH, ie 4 ACH at 50 Pa with a blower door test? It takes 1000 Btu to evaporate a pound of water, and dry wood makes about 10K Btu when burned The stats are fine and dandy, but what matters to me is the real world situation. When I burn wood in the woodstove, the air gets dry. Simple as that. Our house is sealed and insulated well with good windows. The woodstove is fairly new and has good efficiency ratings. The ventilation system noticeably improves the air quality in the house. Given a choice between setting a pan of water on the woodstove, or updating the house/woodstove/shutting off the ventilation system, I'll choose the pan of water. more house airsealing raise the house RH and REDUCE vs increase the amount of wood or other fuel burning required. Short of wrapping the house in a plastic bubble, I don't think there's much more I could do to better seal the house. We built our own home, and I paid extra attention to sealing gaps and whatnot during construction. Anthony |
Woodstove Steamers?
HerHusband wrote:
Less than 0.2 ACH, ie 4 ACH at 50 Pa with a blower door test? Well? It takes 1000 Btu to evaporate a pound of water, and dry wood makes about 10K Btu when burned When I burn wood in the woodstove, the air gets dry. A combustion air supply that dumps into the room vs the stove itself can bring in lots of dry outdoor air and let more humid house air leave via the chimney. The ventilation system noticeably improves the air quality in the house. Run it with a humidistat... Given a choice between setting a pan of water on the woodstove, or updating the house/woodstove/shutting off the ventilation system, I'll choose the pan of water. Ignorance is bliss :-) more house airsealing raise the house RH and REDUCE vs increase the amount of wood or other fuel burning required. Short of wrapping the house in a plastic bubble An outdoor vapor barrier with soggy insulation and rotting studs? :-) ... I don't think there's much more I could do to better seal the house. You might get a blower door test or do more airsealing on your own, with a window exhaust fan and a $60 Kestrel 1000 air velocity meter. Nick |
Woodstove Steamers?
On Nov 16, 8:03 am, wrote:
HerHusband wrote: Less than 0.2 ACH, ie 4 ACH at 50 Pa with a blower door test? Well? It takes 1000 Btu to evaporate a pound of water, and dry wood makes about 10K Btu when burned When I burn wood in the woodstove, the air gets dry. A combustion air supply that dumps into the room vs the stove itself can bring in lots of dry outdoor air and let more humid house air leave via the chimney. The ventilation system noticeably improves the air quality in the house. Run it with a humidistat... Given a choice between setting a pan of water on the woodstove, or updating the house/woodstove/shutting off the ventilation system, I'll choose the pan of water. Ignorance is bliss :-) more house airsealing raise the house RH and REDUCE vs increase the amount of wood or other fuel burning required. Short of wrapping the house in a plastic bubble An outdoor vapor barrier with soggy insulation and rotting studs? :-) ... I don't think there's much more I could do to better seal the house. You might get a blower door test or do more airsealing on your own, with a window exhaust fan and a $60 Kestrel 1000 air velocity meter. Nick You are coming across as a typical egg-head scientist. While your 'theory' is correct, in pratice it ain't either practical or even real. If you are worried about a an extra 1000 btu out of many thousands... especially since those 1000 btu are excess anyhow in most cases when heating with wood. Reminds me of the guy who pointed out that science had solved the GW due to CO2 problem by treating the atmosphere which allowed the excess co2 to be absorbed rapidly in the oceans. I pointed out that what works in the lab ain't realistic when applied to thosands of cubic kilometers of atmosphere. Harry K |
Woodstove Steamers?
The ventilation system noticeably improves the air
quality in the house. Run it with a humidistat... So air quality is based only on humidity? OK, got it. Dry air is clean air. Hmm... You better show me the calculations on that, and can you provide the current acceptable levels of various particulates in the average American household? I want to be sure I understand all the processes involved so I can make an informed decision. Ignorance is bliss :-) Ignorance is providing answers that do not apply to the question. I didn't ask what was wrong with my house or woodstove that caused the air to be dry. I asked for a source of small woodstove steamers. It would be easier to just not use the woodstove than to apply all your suggestions. Anthony |
Woodstove Steamers?
Harry K wrote:
You are coming across as a typical egg-head scientist. You are coming across as a person who cannot spell :-) While your 'theory' is correct, in pratice it ain't either practical or even real. I disagree. Nick |
Woodstove Steamers?
On Nov 14, 9:31 am, HerHusband wrote:
We have a small woodstove (Lopi Patriot model) and as anyone who uses a woodstove knows, the air gets very dry when we use it. Dry eyes, dry noses, and static electricity. So, I'd like to buy a steamer to set on the stove to add moisture back into the air. Unfortunately, all of the steamers and kettles I have seen are rather large and wouldn't fit on the top of our small woodstove very nicely. There are a bunch of them here http://www.plowhearth.com/category.a...os=& cm_type= Karen So, I'm curious if anyone knows where I could find a SMALL steamer (to fit on a 6" ledge), or what other options I might have for setting on the stove. I don't have a lot of money right now, so I'd prefer something under $50. It should also be black to match the stove, it shouldn't rust or leave marks on the stove, and it shouldn't be damaged if it runs out of water. I'm currently using a glass pyrex dish which has helped with the air situation, but doesn't look very attractive. I'm also worried about it cracking when I need to add more water, and don't know what would happen if it ran dry. Thanks, Anthony |
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