Went to a demo show on installing patio door by a local rep. I'd noticed the
sliding panel was on the inside (of the house) and the stationary panel on
the outside on the demonstration. I don't remember ever seen the slider on
the inside so was the local rep. had it backwards or is this the new way of
doing it?

on 10/17/2007 8:48 PM ** Frank ** said the following:
Went to a demo show on installing patio door by a local rep. I'd noticed the
sliding panel was on the inside (of the house) and the stationary panel on
the outside on the demonstration. I don't remember ever seen the slider on
the inside so was the local rep. had it backwards or is this the new way of
doing it?



I had a sliding door that was removed after a sun room was built. I now
have 2 sliding doors in the sun room. All 3 sliders were/are on the inside.
Don't know if there is a rule about which goes on the inside, but I
would rather slide the door into a clear track than into a snow filled
track.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

on 10/17/2007 9:00 PM willshak said the following:
on 10/17/2007 8:48 PM ** Frank ** said the following:
Went to a demo show on installing patio door by a local rep. I'd
noticed the sliding panel was on the inside (of the house) and the
stationary panel on the outside on the demonstration. I don't
remember ever seen the slider on the inside so was the local rep. had
it backwards or is this the new way of doing it?


I had a sliding door that was removed after a sun room was built. I
now have 2 sliding doors in the sun room. All 3 sliders were/are on
the inside.
Don't know if there is a rule about which goes on the inside, but I
would rather slide the door into a clear track than into a snow filled
track.

Another thing I forgot. When the slider is on the inside, you can stick
a piece of broom handle or a piece of wood as a wedge in the track and
the door can not be pried open. Having the slider on the outside would
not allow that.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

"willshak" wrote in message
...
on 10/17/2007 9:00 PM willshak said the following:
on 10/17/2007 8:48 PM ** Frank ** said the following:
Went to a demo show on installing patio door by a local rep. I'd noticed
the sliding panel was on the inside (of the house) and the stationary
panel on the outside on the demonstration. I don't remember ever seen
the slider on the inside so was the local rep. had it backwards or is
this the new way of doing it?


I had a sliding door that was removed after a sun room was built. I now
have 2 sliding doors in the sun room. All 3 sliders were/are on the
inside.
Don't know if there is a rule about which goes on the inside, but I would
rather slide the door into a clear track than into a snow filled track.

Another thing I forgot. When the slider is on the inside, you can stick a
piece of broom handle or a piece of wood as a wedge in the track and the
door can not be pried open. Having the slider on the outside would not
allow that.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Good point. Funny, sliders for the doors outside but inside for the windows
for my house. I need to verify this for my other units.

In article , willshak wrote:

Another thing I forgot. When the slider is on the inside, you can stick
a piece of broom handle or a piece of wood as a wedge in the track and
the door can not be pried open. Having the slider on the outside would
not allow that.

Good point. And every sliding door in every house I've owned
has presented me with the option of using the broom handle
as an added security measure. FWIW, using standard PVC water
pipe works great and is a lot cheaper.

Therefore, I would guess the slider on the inside is the
standard convention.

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Malcolm Hoar" wrote in message

Therefore, I would guess the slider on the inside is the
standard convention.

Pella puts them on the outside. The theory being, if the wind is blowing
against the door, the pressure help seal the door to keep air out as opposed
to pushing it away from the gasket. Mine has been in for about 10+ years
now and I like it a lot.

willshak wrote:
on 10/17/2007 8:48 PM ** Frank ** said the following:
Went to a demo show on installing patio door by a local rep. I'd
noticed the sliding panel was on the inside (of the house) and the
stationary panel on the outside on the demonstration. I don't remember
ever seen the slider on the inside so was the local rep. had it
backwards or is this the new way of doing it?


I had a sliding door that was removed after a sun room was built. I now
have 2 sliding doors in the sun room. All 3 sliders were/are on the inside.
Don't know if there is a rule about which goes on the inside, but I
would rather slide the door into a clear track than into a snow filled
track.

I agree- the doors here are on the outside, and I hate it. Tracks are
always grunged up, and the one that gets used most has a problem with
rollers jumping off the rail. I'm big enough to manhandle it back on,
but a smaller person could not. (Yeah, I know, I keep meaning to buy a
refurb kit and take it apart, but as long as it seals...)

Other thing I hate is, screen is on wrong side. You can't close weather
door without opening the screen door all the way- not a trivial concern
in mosquito season.

I probably won't have this place long enough to replace them, but would
lean heavily toward big-window french doors instead. Downside to those,
of course, is lost floor space inside for swing and standing room.

aem sends....

In article , "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:

"Malcolm Hoar" wrote in message

Therefore, I would guess the slider on the inside is the
standard convention.

Pella puts them on the outside. The theory being, if the wind is blowing
against the door, the pressure help seal the door to keep air out as opposed
to pushing it away from the gasket. Mine has been in for about 10+ years
now and I like it a lot.

Hmmmm, interesting logic. However, I don't think it should
be necessary unless the doors are huge and/or excessively
flexible.

I have two sets of large sliding doors. They're nothing
special -- just what the builder put in when the house
was built 17 years ago. Neither one had leaked, even a
little bit. And the house is on a hill and both doors
face onto a canyon, so they're pretty well exposed to
the wind.

The fly screens are crap; I should get some replacements.
But the doors look good, slide smoothly, and don't leak
(air or water).

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
| http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...

[snip]

I probably won't have this place long enough to replace them, but would
lean heavily toward big-window french doors instead. Downside to those, of
course, is lost floor space inside for swing and standing room.

aem sends..

Standard for French doors is out swing . . . ..

On Oct 17, 8:53 pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"Malcolm Hoar" wrote in message

Therefore, I would guess the slider on the inside is the
standard convention.

Pella puts them on the outside. The theory being, if the wind is blowing
against the door, the pressure help seal the door to keep air out as opposed
to pushing it away from the gasket. Mine has been in for about 10+ years
now and I like it a lot.

Pella is outside but the screen lets in bugs to the closed section and
bugs can come in because you need to open the screen to close the
slider

** Frank ** wrote:
Went to a demo show on installing patio door by a local rep. I'd noticed the
sliding panel was on the inside (of the house) and the stationary panel on
the outside on the demonstration. I don't remember ever seen the slider on
the inside so was the local rep. had it backwards or is this the new way of
doing it?


We have triple panel glass with slider in center. Slider is on inside,
and units are quite old - 35/40 years. I assume the slider is inside so
that the track it slides on is protected from water and dirt.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
t...

"Malcolm Hoar" wrote in message

Therefore, I would guess the slider on the inside is the
standard convention.

Pella puts them on the outside. The theory being, if the wind is blowing
against the door, the pressure help seal the door to keep air out as
opposed to pushing it away from the gasket. Mine has been in for about
10+ years now and I like it a lot.



Ok, I've check all the 8 doors in 4 different cities and all are on the
outside with screen outside of everything. Its been like that since 1952 for
the oldest house and the newest one is 1981. I like it on the outside like
you indicated for positive wind pressure. Maintenance wise its better taking
it outside and lay it on the patio rather than inside the house where the
hardwood floor could be damaged or over spray from WD40, oil or grease on
the carpet. I also think breaking into an outside door is more difficult
since you have to go through two doors instead of one.

JimR wrote:
"aemeijers" wrote in message
...

[snip]

I probably won't have this place long enough to replace them, but would
lean heavily toward big-window french doors instead. Downside to those, of
course, is lost floor space inside for swing and standing room.

aem sends..

Standard for French doors is out swing . . . ..

Not doubting your word, but the ones I've seen up here in snow country
all open in. The only weather doors I see that swing out around here are
on small sheds.

aem sends...

"aemeijers" wrote in message

Standard for French doors is out swing . . . ..
Not doubting your word, but the ones I've seen up here in snow country all
open in. The only weather doors I see that swing out around here are on
small sheds.

aem sends...

Code is to open in on standard doors, I don't see that French doors would be
any different.

On Oct 17, 8:48 pm, "** Frank **" wrote:
Went to a demo show on installing patio door by a local rep. I'd noticed the
sliding panel was on the inside (of the house) and the stationary panel on
the outside on the demonstration. I don't remember ever seen the slider on
the inside so was the local rep. had it backwards or is this the new way of
doing it?

We have Andresson Sliding doors. The main track is on the inside for
the glass door. The screen door for bugs has a slider on the outside.
You can open the glass goors without having to touch the bug screen
doors. That is quite nice.

Best, Mike.

on 10/17/2007 11:12 PM JimR said the following:
"aemeijers" wrote in message
...

[snip]


I probably won't have this place long enough to replace them, but would
lean heavily toward big-window french doors instead. Downside to those, of
course, is lost floor space inside for swing and standing room.

aem sends..


Standard for French doors is out swing . . . ..
Probably for interior french doors, but the OP is asking about exterior
french doors and they swing in. It would be very hard to open an outward
swinging door with 3' of snow packed up against it.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

"Norminn" wrote in message
...
** Frank ** wrote:
Went to a demo show on installing patio door by a local rep. I'd noticed
the sliding panel was on the inside (of the house) and the stationary
panel on the outside on the demonstration. I don't remember ever seen the
slider on the inside so was the local rep. had it backwards or is this
the new way of doing it?
We have triple panel glass with slider in center. Slider is on inside,
and units are quite old - 35/40 years. I assume the slider is inside so
that the track it slides on is protected from water and dirt.

IMHO any sliding door with the slider on the outside (and screen on
the inside) was installed by someone who ordered the wrong door,
didn't know better, or didn't care.

In the past I've installed tamper-proof screws for clients who had doors
installed like this and were concerned about how easy it would be for
someone to unscrew the track and take the slider out. Just another
downside to having the slider on the outside, in addition to all the
things that other posters have mentioned.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"aemeijers" wrote in message

Standard for French doors is out swing . . . ..
Not doubting your word, but the ones I've seen up here in snow
country all open in. The only weather doors I see that swing out
around here are on small sheds.

aem sends...

Code is to open in on standard doors, I don't see that French doors
would be any different.

But the doors in all commercial establishments must open outward. Fire
regs - a stampede toward the door would trap the people.

As an aside, I would think opening outward for residential doors is equally
valid.

On Oct 18, 7:46 pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"aemeijers" wrote in message

Standard for French doors is out swing . . . ..
Not doubting your word, but the ones I've seen up here in snow country all
open in. The only weather doors I see that swing out around here are on
small sheds.

aem sends...

Code is to open in on standard doors, I don't see that French doors would be
any different.

I have seen that statement made before. Oddly, noone has given a cite
to prove it.

Harry K

On Oct 19, 5:15 am, willshak wrote:
on 10/17/2007 11:12 PM JimR said the following: "aemeijers" wrote in message
...

[snip]

I probably won't have this place long enough to replace them, but would
lean heavily toward big-window french doors instead. Downside to those, of
course, is lost floor space inside for swing and standing room.

aem sends..

Standard for French doors is out swing . . . ..

Probably for interior french doors, but the OP is asking about exterior
french doors and they swing in. It would be very hard to open an outward
swinging door with 3' of snow packed up against it.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

I haven't seen but a couple, and they all opened out. BIL has two in
his house - both out swing. One installed only about 5 or 6 years
ago.

Harry K

On Oct 17, 5:48 pm, "** Frank **" wrote:
Went to a demo show on installing patio door by a local rep. I'd noticed the
sliding panel was on the inside (of the house) and the stationary panel on
the outside on the demonstration. I don't remember ever seen the slider on
the inside so was the local rep. had it backwards or is this the new way of
doing it?

Just MHO but I _hate_ sliders. The worst abortion for closure ever
invented. High maintenance, poor sealing. When I added an 18x30
addition the wife insisted on a slider. I tried to convince her to go
with 'french doors' - no luck. She still cusses her stubborness.
Lates quote I got last year was about $1,500 to replace the Anderson
with a French door.

Were I ever to look at a house with a slider in it, it would have to
be replaced before I would buy.

Harry K

on 10/19/2007 12:58 PM Harry K said the following:
On Oct 18, 7:46 pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:

"aemeijers" wrote in message


Standard for French doors is out swing . . . ..

Not doubting your word, but the ones I've seen up here in snow country all
open in. The only weather doors I see that swing out around here are on
small sheds.

aem sends...

Code is to open in on standard doors, I don't see that French doors would be
any different.


I have seen that statement made before. Oddly, noone has given a cite
to prove it.

Harry K


In places that have such building requirements for public buildings, the
doors are supposed to open outwards. Fire, you know.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

on 10/19/2007 12:59 PM Harry K said the following:
On Oct 19, 5:15 am, willshak wrote:

on 10/17/2007 11:12 PM JimR said the following: "aemeijers" wrote in message

...

[snip]

I probably won't have this place long enough to replace them, but would
lean heavily toward big-window french doors instead. Downside to those, of
course, is lost floor space inside for swing and standing room.

aem sends..

Standard for French doors is out swing . . . ..

Probably for interior french doors, but the OP is asking about exterior
french doors and they swing in. It would be very hard to open an outward
swinging door with 3' of snow packed up against it.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @


I haven't seen but a couple, and they all opened out. BIL has two in
his house - both out swing. One installed only about 5 or 6 years
ago.

Harry K

Might be a problem if a fire started in the house and the only exit was
blocked by snow drifts.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

"Harry K" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Oct 18, 7:46 pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"aemeijers" wrote in message

Standard for French doors is out swing . . . ..
Not doubting your word, but the ones I've seen up here in snow country
all
open in. The only weather doors I see that swing out around here are on
small sheds.

aem sends...

Code is to open in on standard doors, I don't see that French doors would
be
any different.

I have seen that statement made before. Oddly, noone has given a cite
to prove it.

Harry K


Code or no code, all the residential exterior doors I've seen open in. I
want to install an exterior French door open out but than the threshold will
be reversed and the hinges exposed degrading security. Anyway I talk with a
door contractor and he could install with doors open out, so may not be
code.

Exterior doors open out in some foreign countries.

My commercial exterior door swings in and out, handicap approved, hidden
spring loaded for panel to return to close position, panels could remain
open in or out without being latched, heavy duty three point latch with just
a flip of the finger, 1/4" thick temper glass, and build like a tank almost
intrusion proof. I wish doors made this well for residential use.

On 17 Oct, 21:47, (Malcolm Hoar) wrote:
In article , willshak wrote:
Another thing I forgot. When the slider is on the inside, you can stick
a piece of broom handle or a piece of wood as a wedge in the track and
the door can not be pried open. Having the slider on the outside would
not allow that.

Good point. And every sliding door in every house I've owned
has presented me with the option of using the broom handle
as an added security measure. FWIW, using standard PVC water
pipe works great and is a lot cheaper.

Therefore, I would guess the slider on the inside is the
standard convention.

--
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Malcolm Hoar "The more I practice, the luckier I get". |
| Gary Player. |
|http://www.malch.com/ Shpx gur PQN. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Instead of a wooden stick or PVC pipe, which must be moved into and
out of the track each time the door is secured/unsecured, I use two of
the push-button locks that came with my Crestline door. They supplied
one; I doubled up and put one at the bottom and one at the top. I
drilled extra holes in the upper and lower frame so I can open the
door about 9" for ventilation with security. I also removed the sill
bracket and positioned the lock so that more of the steel shaft
extends into the oak sill and top plate.

The lock can be seen at the bottom right of this page:

http://www.crestlinewindows.com/PDFs...ding_CW_FO.pdf

On Oct 19, 11:08 am, "** Frank **" wrote:
"Harry K" wrote in message

ups.com...





On Oct 18, 7:46 pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"aemeijers" wrote in message

Standard for French doors is out swing . . . ..
Not doubting your word, but the ones I've seen up here in snow country
all
open in. The only weather doors I see that swing out around here are on
small sheds.

aem sends...

Code is to open in on standard doors, I don't see that French doors would
be
any different.

I have seen that statement made before. Oddly, noone has given a cite
to prove it.

Harry K

Code or no code, all the residential exterior doors I've seen open in. I
want to install an exterior French door open out but than the threshold will
be reversed and the hinges exposed degrading security. Anyway I talk with a
door contractor and he could install with doors open out, so may not be
code.

Exterior doors open out in some foreign countries.

My commercial exterior door swings in and out, handicap approved, hidden
spring loaded for panel to return to close position, panels could remain
open in or out without being latched, heavy duty three point latch with just
a flip of the finger, 1/4" thick temper glass, and build like a tank almost
intrusion proof. I wish doors made this well for residential use.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

1. I have an 'outswing' for my entry. It does open into a small
entry porch though.

2. Doors are built for both in and out swing - your choice.

3. Hinges are not a security problem. Out swing have security hinges
and you can make your own by drilling a hole and driving a screw in
that engages a matching hole in the othe leaf. Mine has that system,
both top and bottom hinges.

As far as security goes, out swing is better than in. You can kick in
an in-swing but you have to take out the entire jamb on an outswing.

The out-swing frees up an amazing amount of space inside the room.

Harry K

On Oct 19, 10:49 am, willshak wrote:
on 10/19/2007 12:59 PM Harry K said the following:





On Oct 19, 5:15 am, willshak wrote:

on 10/17/2007 11:12 PM JimR said the following: "aemeijers" wrote in message

...

[snip]

I probably won't have this place long enough to replace them, but would
lean heavily toward big-window french doors instead. Downside to those, of
course, is lost floor space inside for swing and standing room.

aem sends..

Standard for French doors is out swing . . . ..

Probably for interior french doors, but the OP is asking about exterior
french doors and they swing in. It would be very hard to open an outward
swinging door with 3' of snow packed up against it.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

I haven't seen but a couple, and they all opened out. BIL has two in
his house - both out swing. One installed only about 5 or 6 years
ago.

Harry K

Might be a problem if a fire started in the house and the only exit was
blocked by snow drifts.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

He is in BC with lots of snow. Haven't heard of any problem opening
it and it opens directly onto the patio. One could also posit a
problem opening it out due to a mudslide, a car parked against it,
etc. I would guess the odds of a being blocked in in case of fire and
snow drifts as about the same as the fire blocking off access to the
door to start with.

Harry K

Harry K wrote:

As far as security goes, out swing is better than in. You can kick in
an in-swing but you have to take out the entire jamb on an outswing.

The out-swing frees up an amazing amount of space inside the room.

I wanted outswing french doors on my new house for just that reason. The builder
discouraged it on the grounds that in his experience they tend to leak more than
in swing doors.

--
"Tell me what I should do, Annie."
"Stay. Here. Forever." - Life On Mars

I'm jumping in here a bit late (date wise) but if the slider is on the
outside an intruder only needs to lift the outside door upward into the
upper track and tilt it outward to remove it from the frame -- even if it is
locked at the center. And with the screen on the inside any flies and bugs
that say on the screen when you open it are swiftly slid directly into the
house.


"The Streets" wrote in message
...
"Norminn" wrote in message
...
** Frank ** wrote:
Went to a demo show on installing patio door by a local rep. I'd noticed
the sliding panel was on the inside (of the house) and the stationary
panel on the outside on the demonstration. I don't remember ever seen
the slider on the inside so was the local rep. had it backwards or is
this the new way of doing it?
We have triple panel glass with slider in center. Slider is on inside,
and units are quite old - 35/40 years. I assume the slider is inside so
that the track it slides on is protected from water and dirt.

IMHO any sliding door with the slider on the outside (and screen on
the inside) was installed by someone who ordered the wrong door,
didn't know better, or didn't care.

In the past I've installed tamper-proof screws for clients who had doors
installed like this and were concerned about how easy it would be for
someone to unscrew the track and take the slider out. Just another
downside to having the slider on the outside, in addition to all the
things that other posters have mentioned.

"John" wrote in message
...
I'm jumping in here a bit late (date wise) but if the slider is on the
outside an intruder only needs to lift the outside door upward into the
upper track and tilt it outward to remove it from the frame -- even if it
is locked at the center.

Not true. There are locks that prevent lifting.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
t...

"John" wrote in message
...
I'm jumping in here a bit late (date wise) but if the slider is on the
outside an intruder only needs to lift the outside door upward into the
upper track and tilt it outward to remove it from the frame -- even if it
is locked at the center.

Not true. There are locks that prevent lifting.




I just replaced 3 6- foot sliders that had been installed with the
operating door on the outside and screen on the inside and simply lifting
them up to clear the bottom track removed the door. A sill and head jamb
bracket retained the non-op door.

"John" wrote in message


I just replaced 3 6- foot sliders that had been installed with the
operating door on the outside and screen on the inside and simply lifting
them up to clear the bottom track removed the door. A sill and head jamb
bracket retained the non-op door.

You did that when it was locked right? And it applies to every brand,
correct?

On 25 Oct, 11:27, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"John" wrote in message

I just replaced 3 6- foot sliders that had been installed with the
operating door on the outside and screen on the inside and simply lifting
them up to clear the bottom track removed the door. A sill and head jamb
bracket retained the non-op door.

- You did that when it was locked right? And it applies to every
brand, correct?

I can answer that. :-)

My Crestline door (granted: interior slider) can not be lifted and
removed. An interior header strip needs to be removed (~ 6 screws) in
order to remove the slider.

Once this header strip is removed, the slider simply tilts into the
room.

2 of the 3 locks would have to be unlocked to accomplish this.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
news:ZB2Ui.14953$na2.7264@trndny08...

"John" wrote in message


I just replaced 3 6- foot sliders that had been installed with the
operating door on the outside and screen on the inside and simply lifting
them up to clear the bottom track removed the door. A sill and head
jamb bracket retained the non-op door.

You did that when it was locked right? And it applies to every brand,
correct?



Did one pair when locked because too lazy to go totally around house .
Can't say every brand and don't know year made. These were 2 different
manufacturers however . The houses was there from the mid 80's