In article ,
Bob Ward wrote:



Any hole is the right size hole for me!

I'm not sure I'd cop to such a shortcoming.

Sounds more diametrical to me -- and perpendickular to a shortcoming.

Tom Gardner wrote:


Do CEOs make too much?

A great many do.

Why is that?

Because they are for the most part inherently egotistical and corrupt.

Could it be that they are hired to do
a job and that's what the job is worth?

Not a chance given the many examples of CEOs who have costs the
companies they "worked" for billions yet still managed to extract
millions in golden parachutes when the companies finally kicked their
sorry butts out.

Why do you resent high-paying jobs?

I resent a "job" where the the person in question is able to grossly
enrich themselves at the expense of pretty much the entire company - the
employees that are outsourced, the product lines that are sold for quick
profit, the company reputations that are irreparably damaged by quality
problems caused by profit increasing changes, etc. - and then bail out
with their golden parachute while the remains of the formerly good
company go down in flames.

High paying jobs where the person in question does legitimate work don't
bother me.

Too_Many_Tools wrote:

Walmart is doing this for their good...not the good of the consumer.


Dunno about that.

According to a study done by Walmart, the company has provided more
assistance to lower-income Americans than all the welfare programs (Social
Security, Medicare, WIC, etc.) combined.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
Too_Many_Tools wrote:

Walmart is doing this for their good...not the good of the consumer.


Dunno about that.

According to a study done by Walmart, the company has provided more
assistance to lower-income Americans than all the welfare programs (Social
Security, Medicare, WIC, etc.) combined.

Hahahahahahaha!...gasp...hoho...

Did the study say they cured cancer, too?

--
Ed Huntress

In article ,
"Ed Huntress" wrote:

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
Too_Many_Tools wrote:

Walmart is doing this for their good...not the good of the consumer.


Dunno about that.

According to a study done by Walmart, the company has provided more
assistance to lower-income Americans than all the welfare programs (Social
Security, Medicare, WIC, etc.) combined.

Hahahahahahaha!...gasp...hoho...

Did the study say they cured cancer, too?

That'd be easy -- richer people are healthier, and their customers save
so much money...

I bet that Walmart study is interesting. Anyone have a cite? They are
the biggest retailer in the US, by a lot.

Joe Gwinn

Pete C. wrote:
Tom Gardner wrote:



Do CEOs make too much?


A great many do.


Why is that?


Because they are for the most part inherently egotistical and corrupt.


Could it be that they are hired to do
a job and that's what the job is worth?


Not a chance given the many examples of CEOs who have costs the
companies they "worked" for billions yet still managed to extract
millions in golden parachutes when the companies finally kicked their
sorry butts out.


Why do you resent high-paying jobs?


I resent a "job" where the the person in question is able to grossly
enrich themselves at the expense of pretty much the entire company - the
employees that are outsourced, the product lines that are sold for quick
profit, the company reputations that are irreparably damaged by quality
problems caused by profit increasing changes, etc. - and then bail out
with their golden parachute while the remains of the formerly good
company go down in flames.

High paying jobs where the person in question does legitimate work don't
bother me.


Noneof that is important.
The job is entirely about paying the share holders a dividend.

Quarterly....

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 11:23:44 GMT, "Jerry Foster"
wrote:

The chairs were put away and I haven't been able to bring myself to
trust any kind of holder since then, alas.

Jeannie



I don't know the geometry of your chairs, but, in the case of a simple
hammock, the tension on the supports greatly exceeds the weight of
the person in the hammock. How greatly depends on how much the
hammock is allowed to sag.

Jerry


I question your geometry.

Especially on a simple hammock, where the design requires TWO points
of support. No way can you DOUBLE the user's weight by any kind of
angle trickery.

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 11:00:18 -0500, wrote:


No, that was probably there. They just forgot to spec "actually test
that products are within spec". That's why sometimes you'll go to the
Circuit City and buy a box that's supposed to have a router in it, and
get home and discover that it's an old phone book.

--
Huey


If it's a Chinese phone book, it's full of Wong numbers to boot!

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 09:26:59 -0700, tt (Charles
Bishop) wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

In alt.fan.cecil-adams Maxwell Lol wrote:
"Tom Gardner" writes:
China can make things real cheap and fast, but they dont believe
in QA departments.
Don't believe it for a minute! The Chinese produce to spec. as good
as anybody, blame the spec. guys and the purchasing customer for not
specifying any QC, that costs extra.
So, Mattel forgot to spec "non-lead paint" on their toys?

No, that was probably there. They just forgot to spec "actually test
that products are within spec". That's why sometimes you'll go to the
Circuit City and buy a box that's supposed to have a router in it, and
get home and discover that it's an old phone book.

Circuit City sells routers? Whoda thunk? I bought mine from Rafael Lumber.
I do need to find a fence guide though and since the router is old, there
doesn't seem to be one.

charles, one word, two meanings, dependent on the trade, bishop

The fence was upgraded to a firewall.

Bob Ward wrote:
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 11:23:44 GMT, "Jerry Foster"
wrote:

The chairs were put away and I haven't been able to bring myself to
trust any kind of holder since then, alas.

Jeannie



I don't know the geometry of your chairs, but, in the case of a simple
hammock, the tension on the supports greatly exceeds the weight of
the person in the hammock. How greatly depends on how much the
hammock is allowed to sag.

Jerry


I question your geometry.

I question your trigonometry.

Especially on a simple hammock, where the design requires TWO points
of support. No way can you DOUBLE the user's weight by any kind of
angle trickery.

What is the tangent of 90 degrees?

Xho

--
-------------------- http://NewsReader.Com/ --------------------
The costs of publication of this article were defrayed in part by the
payment of page charges. This article must therefore be hereby marked
advertisement in accordance with 18 U.S.C. Section 1734 solely to indicate
this fact.

On Sep 16, 5:39 am, Maxwell Lol wrote:
"Tom Gardner" writes:
China can make things real cheap and fast, but they dont believe in QA
departments.

Don't believe it for a minute! The Chinese produce to spec. as good as
anybody, blame the spec. guys and the purchasing customer for not specifying
any QC, that costs extra.

So, Mattel forgot to spec "non-lead paint" on their toys?

It is apparent that they did not check incoming merchandise....they
figured that the kids chewing on the toys would serve for QA control
for free.

TMT

On Sep 16, 6:55 am, Uncle Monster wrote:
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Maxwell Lol" wrote in message
...
"Tom Gardner" writes:

China can make things real cheap and fast, but they dont believe in QA
departments.

Don't believe it for a minute! The Chinese produce to spec. as good as
anybody, blame the spec. guys and the purchasing customer for not
specifying
any QC, that costs extra.
So, Mattel forgot to spec "non-lead paint" on their toys?

A couple of anecdotal examples: our old friend Hamei, who manages (or did
manage) an aluminum-wheel plant in China, said that Chinese attitudes toward
quality were pretty poor, and that he had to stay on them all the time. In
another case, the manager of the Volkswagen plant in China said a few years
ago that Chinese quality was not good enough (yet) to make VWs in China for
the western market, but that it was getting better. Still another example,
an executive with Charmilles (a Swiss maker of machine tools) that builds
machines in China for the Asian market said their quality there was
"approaching" the quality of their production in Europe, but that it wasn't
good enough to supply the European or American markets.

On the other hand, there are some Chinese plants that are producing
world-class injection-molded parts, which means they're making world-class
injection molds. Those plants I've read about were managed by western or
Hong Kong-based management.

It appears to be a mixed bag, but the general level of quality is somewhat
less than we expect in the west.

--
Ed Huntress

When I was a kid, "Made In Japan" meant "cheap junk".
An American professor developed the science of quality
control, American companies blew him off, the Japanese
listened. Give the Chinese time, they're learning.

[8~{} Uncle Monster- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

They already are improving.

Over the last five years, I have seen ever improving quality in the
Chinese merchandise I buy.

In terms of tools, Harbor Freight actually has some good values in
respect to price and quality now.

And for what it is worth, I take all my portable power tools apart and
inspect their construction before using them. In all the time I have
bought HF, I have found only one loose electrical connection. The
finish and overall construction of the tools are more than
satisfactory for home usage.

Yeah it has surprised me too as to what they can build for what we
pay.

TMT

On Sep 16, 3:29 pm, clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 12:52:30 -0700, Too_Many_Tools

wrote:

If the American SOBs who let this stuff be sold were executed on prime
time, I bet the QA problem would straighten itself out.

TMT

What the American companies consistently fail to get is QA is a 24
hour a day, 365 day a year job. Thi is PARTICULARLY so when dealing
with companies like China.

The first batch excedes spec, by somewhere around the 3rd load they
meet spec. (generally - some MAY excede, and a small number fait)
As they try to maximize profit, the quality DROPS and by about the
fith load the spec MAY be totally lost. Importers need to pull random
samples from the "line" with no fore-warning, and test them
diligently. Not just to see if they look good, but if the materials
ALL meet spec. Is the plastic the plastic spec'd? Is the paint the
right formulation? Does the steel meet spec? Is the formula of the
cough syrup 100% correct?

Then they need to do the same as the stuff comes off the boat.

Beyond that, there should be SOME government inspection to see that
labeling is correct (example, off the boat from China comes toothpaste
marked as made in SOUTH AFRICA by a company that does not manufacture
goods there.Red Flags anyone??????

--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com

The companies also share the blame for cherry picking suppliers...they
nail them to the wall for pricing and then jump to the next supplier.
Well guess what the current supplier will do knowing that there is no
long term business relationship...he will cut every corner he can,
pocket the money and laugh at the greedy company as they move to the
next supplier/country.

Funny how the MBAs haven't figure out that screwing your suppliers
does come back to bite you.

TMT

On Sep 16, 8:05 pm, "Tom Gardner" wrote:
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message

ups.com...





On Sep 16, 4:16 am, "Tom Gardner" wrote:
"RickH" wrote in message

roups.com...

On Sep 15, 8:36 pm, Jeff Wisnia wrote:
Automotive fuses...

Today's mail brought me a Safety Recall notice from Harbor Freight
telling me to stop using, remove any in use, and return the 120 piece
Mini-Blade Automotive Fuse Assortment I'd tacked onto an order I
placed
with them a few months ago, because getting 120 fuses for $4.99 seemed
like a good deal. (TOO good a deal I guess...)

They're paying the postage, will refund $4.99 and gave me a "$5.00 Off
coupon" good till next February.

The recall notice includes this explanation:

"Specifically, manufacturing inconsistencies max exiat with the
materials, connections or size of the fuse elements which could result
in the fuses failing to protect the circuit from exessive current
which
could cause damage to a vehicle and possibly a fire."

What's next folks?

The fuse issue isn't as funny as the "Stove Bolt Assortment" I bought
from Harbor Freight several years ago and stuck on the shelf. When I
finally wanted to use eight matching fasteners rather than the onsies
and twosies I can get from my "hell box" I went to that assortment,
only
to find that all the 10-24 nuts in it had missed the threading
operation
and had smooth bore holes in them.

Just for ****s and grins I wrote a letter to HF and taped a couple of
the unthreaded nuts to it. I described the problem and explained that
I
assumed the threads were on backorder and asked when they expected to
ship them to me. I wasn't sure what that would get me, but figured
someone might get a laugh out of it and maybe send me another box of
fasteners.

Unfortunatly, my letter was answered by some ditzy woman with no sense
of humor because I all I got was a letter from her saying my complaint
exceeded their allowable time limit for returns and there was nothing
they could do about it now.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.98*10^14 fathoms per fortnight.

Sounds like my Chinese kitchen faucet that lasted all of 3 days.

I hear they are planning on importing a $9000 car to the US, the
Cheri, those fuses should work in those.

China can make things real cheap and fast, but they dont believe in QA
departments.

Don't believe it for a minute! The Chinese produce to spec. as good as
anybody, blame the spec. guys and the purchasing customer for not
specifying
any QC, that costs extra.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Remember "buyer beware"?

It is the responsibility of the American companies selling you
anything to make sure that it is as represented....and they are not
doing that so they can pass the buck on to the CEO bonus.

Sit back and watch the toy companies...they are going to be used as a
lesson for the rest of Corporate America as to what happens when you
cut corners to make the CEO bonus larger.

TMT

Do CEOs make too much? Why is that? Could it be that they are hired to do
a job and that's what the job is worth? Why do you resent high-paying jobs?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Why don't we ask the stockholders of Mattel what they think of their
CEO right now?

Will he be entitled to his bonus while he is directly responsible for
exposing millions of children to lead poisoning?

I suggest prison time for his bonus so he can readjust his
priorities...proper QA for quality products.

TMT

On Sep 16, 8:10 pm, "Tom Gardner" wrote:
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message

ups.com...





On Sep 16, 8:24 am, George wrote:
RickH wrote:
China can make things real cheap and fast, but they dont believe in QA
departments.

Don't kid yourself. They are quite capable of making quality stuff. Its
the "Walmart mentality" buyers who keep on insisting on even cheaper
prices so then the quality falls as expected.

Correct...and the cheap stuff is sold because it maximizes the profit
for the seller.

What do you think the MBAs do all day? Maximizing profit does not
include maximizing quality.

Walmart is doing this for their good...not the good of the consumer.

TMT

It's what the customers want, in spite of the fact that the goods of low
quality have to be replaced and the value of good products that last longer
isn't part of the consumer mindset. Change the consumer's paradigme.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Now you are telling us that the consumer wants to give their children
poisonious toys?!?!?!

You are so full of it.

Tom, just sit back and watch the consumer change Mattel's bottom line.

The CEO and all others responsible deserve what is going to happen to
them.

TMT

On Sep 16, 5:47 pm, "Pete C." wrote:
Tom Gardner wrote:

Do CEOs make too much?

A great many do.

Why is that?

Because they are for the most part inherently egotistical and corrupt.

Could it be that they are hired to do
a job and that's what the job is worth?

Not a chance given the many examples of CEOs who have costs the
companies they "worked" for billions yet still managed to extract
millions in golden parachutes when the companies finally kicked their
sorry butts out.

Why do you resent high-paying jobs?

I resent a "job" where the the person in question is able to grossly
enrich themselves at the expense of pretty much the entire company - the
employees that are outsourced, the product lines that are sold for quick
profit, the company reputations that are irreparably damaged by quality
problems caused by profit increasing changes, etc. - and then bail out
with their golden parachute while the remains of the formerly good
company go down in flames.

High paying jobs where the person in question does legitimate work don't
bother me.

I agree 100%.

TMT

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Sep 16, 4:16 am, "Tom Gardner" wrote:
"RickH" wrote in message

ups.com...





On Sep 15, 8:36 pm, Jeff Wisnia wrote:
Automotive fuses...

Today's mail brought me a Safety Recall notice from Harbor Freight
telling me to stop using, remove any in use, and return the 120 piece
Mini-Blade Automotive Fuse Assortment I'd tacked onto an order I
placed
with them a few months ago, because getting 120 fuses for $4.99 seemed
like a good deal. (TOO good a deal I guess...)

They're paying the postage, will refund $4.99 and gave me a "$5.00 Off
coupon" good till next February.

The recall notice includes this explanation:

"Specifically, manufacturing inconsistencies max exiat with the
materials, connections or size of the fuse elements which could result
in the fuses failing to protect the circuit from exessive current
which
could cause damage to a vehicle and possibly a fire."

What's next folks?

The fuse issue isn't as funny as the "Stove Bolt Assortment" I bought
from Harbor Freight several years ago and stuck on the shelf. When I
finally wanted to use eight matching fasteners rather than the onsies
and twosies I can get from my "hell box" I went to that assortment,
only
to find that all the 10-24 nuts in it had missed the threading
operation
and had smooth bore holes in them.

Just for ****s and grins I wrote a letter to HF and taped a couple of
the unthreaded nuts to it. I described the problem and explained that
I
assumed the threads were on backorder and asked when they expected to
ship them to me. I wasn't sure what that would get me, but figured
someone might get a laugh out of it and maybe send me another box of
fasteners.

Unfortunatly, my letter was answered by some ditzy woman with no sense
of humor because I all I got was a letter from her saying my complaint
exceeded their allowable time limit for returns and there was nothing
they could do about it now.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.98*10^14 fathoms per fortnight.

Sounds like my Chinese kitchen faucet that lasted all of 3 days.

I hear they are planning on importing a $9000 car to the US, the
Cheri, those fuses should work in those.

China can make things real cheap and fast, but they dont believe in QA
departments.

Don't believe it for a minute! The Chinese produce to spec. as good as
anybody, blame the spec. guys and the purchasing customer for not
specifying
any QC, that costs extra.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Remember "buyer beware"?

It is the responsibility of the American companies selling you
anything to make sure that it is as represented....and they are not
doing that so they can pass the buck on to the CEO bonus.

Sit back and watch the toy companies...they are going to be used as a
lesson for the rest of Corporate America as to what happens when you
cut corners to make the CEO bonus larger.

TMT


Do CEOs make too much? Why is that? Could it be that they are hired to do
a job and that's what the job is worth? Why do you resent high-paying jobs?

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Sep 16, 8:24 am, George wrote:
RickH wrote:
China can make things real cheap and fast, but they dont believe in QA
departments.

Don't kid yourself. They are quite capable of making quality stuff. Its
the "Walmart mentality" buyers who keep on insisting on even cheaper
prices so then the quality falls as expected.

Correct...and the cheap stuff is sold because it maximizes the profit
for the seller.

What do you think the MBAs do all day? Maximizing profit does not
include maximizing quality.

Walmart is doing this for their good...not the good of the consumer.

TMT


It's what the customers want, in spite of the fact that the goods of low
quality have to be replaced and the value of good products that last longer
isn't part of the consumer mindset. Change the consumer's paradigme.

on 9/16/2007 9:01 PM Too_Many_Tools said the following:
On Sep 16, 8:10 pm, "Tom Gardner" wrote:

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message

ups.com...






On Sep 16, 8:24 am, George wrote:

RickH wrote:

China can make things real cheap and fast, but they dont believe in QA
departments.

Don't kid yourself. They are quite capable of making quality stuff. Its
the "Walmart mentality" buyers who keep on insisting on even cheaper
prices so then the quality falls as expected.

Correct...and the cheap stuff is sold because it maximizes the profit
for the seller.

What do you think the MBAs do all day? Maximizing profit does not
include maximizing quality.

Walmart is doing this for their good...not the good of the consumer.

TMT

It's what the customers want, in spite of the fact that the goods of low
quality have to be replaced and the value of good products that last longer
isn't part of the consumer mindset. Change the consumer's paradigme.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Now you are telling us that the consumer wants to give their children
poisonious toys?!?!?!

You are so full of it.

Tom, just sit back and watch the consumer change Mattel's bottom line.

The CEO and all others responsible deserve what is going to happen to

them.
Multi-million dollar "Golden Parachutes"?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On Sep 16, 6:26 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:

Walmart is doing this for their good...not the good of the consumer.

Dunno about that.

According to a study done by Walmart, the company has provided more
assistance to lower-income Americans than all the welfare programs (Social
Security, Medicare, WIC, etc.) combined.

Good to hear it was an impartial study whose outcome was not
predetermined.

If Walmart has done so much good, when do we get a refund on our
taxes?

If you do the research, you will find that Walmart guts local
economies in return for cheap Chinese junk.

Fair trade I assume?

TMT

On Sep 16, 6:49 pm, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
"Ed Huntress" wrote:





"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
Too_Many_Tools wrote:

Walmart is doing this for their good...not the good of the consumer.

Dunno about that.

According to a study done by Walmart, the company has provided more
assistance to lower-income Americans than all the welfare programs (Social
Security, Medicare, WIC, etc.) combined.

Hahahahahahaha!...gasp...hoho...

Did the study say they cured cancer, too?

That'd be easy -- richer people are healthier, and their customers save
so much money...

I bet that Walmart study is interesting. Anyone have a cite? They are
the biggest retailer in the US, by a lot.

Joe Gwinn- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

They are responsible for 10% of the retail activity in the United
States.

They are also responsible for 90% of the Chinese stuff that is sold in
the United States.

TMT

On Sep 16, 7:15 pm, cavelamb himself wrote:
Pete C. wrote:
Tom Gardner wrote:

Do CEOs make too much?

A great many do.

Why is that?

Because they are for the most part inherently egotistical and corrupt.

Could it be that they are hired to do
a job and that's what the job is worth?

Not a chance given the many examples of CEOs who have costs the
companies they "worked" for billions yet still managed to extract
millions in golden parachutes when the companies finally kicked their
sorry butts out.

Why do you resent high-paying jobs?

I resent a "job" where the the person in question is able to grossly
enrich themselves at the expense of pretty much the entire company - the
employees that are outsourced, the product lines that are sold for quick
profit, the company reputations that are irreparably damaged by quality
problems caused by profit increasing changes, etc. - and then bail out
with their golden parachute while the remains of the formerly good
company go down in flames.

High paying jobs where the person in question does legitimate work don't
bother me.

Noneof that is important.
The job is entirely about paying the share holders a dividend.

Quarterly....- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The stockholders would get a larger dividend if the CEO got a smaller
salary.

Quarterly...


TMT

Now you are telling us that the consumer wants to give their children
poisonious toys?!?!?!

Nope... Just cheap toys.

You are so full of it.

Tom, just sit back and watch the consumer change Mattel's bottom line.

It'll be forgotten by Christmas. Sure they won't sell as much, but they'll
still make money on the other few dozen items that they brought in from
China, which have less noticable defects.

The CEO and all others responsible deserve what is going to happen to
them.

Be given a multi-million dollar retirement package and spend the rest of
their lives basking in the south of Spain?

According to Jeff Wisnia :

Testing fuses is sort of like testing firecrackers isn't it? The good
ones are rendered unusable if they "pass". G

Depends on what the test is.

a) Does it pass the full rated current for the specified time?

(This one would leave a fully functional fuse if it passed.)

b) Does it blow within the specified time for a specified
overcurrent?

(Here, of course, those which passed would be useless. :-)

Course I suppose if you have knowledge of the resistance versus current
characteristics of a "good" fuse of the same alloy and design, you could
put some current through them and see if what you've got matches
reasonably closely.

A reasonable approach.

When I got the recall notice I thought for a moment about grabbing my
magnifying optical comparitor and looking to see if the links in those
fuses stepped up in size sort of appropriate to their amperage ratings,
but then thought better about that, said, "WTF", and went for a nice end
of summer walk with SWMBO.

A better use of your time, I think. :-)

Let's hear what your examination and tests show, my suspicion is that
someone probably mixed up the metal parts and they ended up in the wrong
fuses.

And since the markings are on the plastic caps ... :-)

Hmm ... I wonder whether there is anything stamped in the
"blades"?

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Too_Many_Tools wrote:


Why don't we ask the stockholders of Mattel what they think of their
CEO right now?

Will he be entitled to his bonus while he is directly responsible for
exposing millions of children to lead poisoning?

I suggest prison time for his bonus so he can readjust his
priorities...proper QA for quality products.

TMT



Problem is that it's still way to early for Christmas.

If this had been big news in November - he'd be in trouble.

But by the time the Christmas season comes along it will be old news.

Yawn.

It's an attention span problem...

Richard

wrote:

Bob Ward wrote:
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 11:23:44 GMT, "Jerry Foster"
wrote:

The chairs were put away and I haven't been able to bring myself to
trust any kind of holder since then, alas.

Jeannie



I don't know the geometry of your chairs, but, in the case of a simple
hammock, the tension on the supports greatly exceeds the weight of
the person in the hammock. How greatly depends on how much the
hammock is allowed to sag.

Jerry


I question your geometry.

I question your trigonometry.

Especially on a simple hammock, where the design requires TWO points
of support. No way can you DOUBLE the user's weight by any kind of
angle trickery.

What is the tangent of 90 degrees?

Xho

Maybe you should explain what kind of hammock you mean. I think I know
what you're getting at, and what the misunderstanding is.

Below is my idea of a hammock. In this type of hammock the fasteners are
attached to the beam. The only force on the fasteners is what is
necessary to hold up the seat and its occupants. (ASCII art,
non-proportional font required for viewing)

_____.___________________________________._____
|_____|___________________________________|_____| -- Beam
|| 0-- Fastener 0 ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||--Support
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| |-- Chain | ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| | _________________________________ | ||
|| |/ \| ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| | Backrest | ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| | _________________________________ | ||
|| |´ `| ||
|| | Seat | ||
|| |___________________________________| ||
|| ||
|| ||
|| ||
|| ||
\\// -- Grass \\//


But I believe you were thinking about something like what I've shown
below. In this type of hammock the force on the fasteners easily exceeds
the weight of the seat with occupants, because of the geometry, just
like you say.

| | | |
| | Fastener Chain | |
|___| / v |___|
|____}------,-----------------------------------,------{____|
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |--Support
| | |-- Chain | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | _________________________________ | | |
| | |/ \| | |
| | | | | |
| | | Backrest | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | _________________________________ | | |
| | |´ `| | |
| | | Seat | | |
| | |___________________________________| | |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
\\||// \\|||//

This should neatly reconcile your different opinions, I hope.

S.

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 18:05:58 -0700, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:



Sit back and watch the toy companies...they are going to be used as a
lesson for the rest of Corporate America as to what happens when you
cut corners to make the CEO bonus larger.

TMT


Do CEOs make too much? Why is that? Could it be that they are hired to do
a job and that's what the job is worth? Why do you resent high-paying jobs?


So you think that CEOs should be rewarded for driving the company toi
the brink of bankruptcy?

Noozer wrote:

HOW in the hell does a hardened drill bit BEND 90 degrees!

You know it can't do that. So it wasn't hardened. Or someone played a
(potentially dangerous) prank on you by heat treating the drill bit to
soften it.

S.

on 9/16/2007 10:23 PM Sevenhundred Elves said the following:
wrote:


Bob Ward wrote:

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 11:23:44 GMT, "Jerry Foster"
wrote:


The chairs were put away and I haven't been able to bring myself to
trust any kind of holder since then, alas.

Jeannie



I don't know the geometry of your chairs, but, in the case of a simple
hammock, the tension on the supports greatly exceeds the weight of
the person in the hammock. How greatly depends on how much the
hammock is allowed to sag.

Jerry


I question your geometry.

I question your trigonometry.

Especially on a simple hammock, where the design requires TWO points
of support. No way can you DOUBLE the user's weight by any kind of
angle trickery.

What is the tangent of 90 degrees?

Xho


Maybe you should explain what kind of hammock you mean. I think I know
what you're getting at, and what the misunderstanding is.

Below is my idea of a hammock. In this type of hammock the fasteners are
attached to the beam. The only force on the fasteners is what is
necessary to hold up the seat and its occupants. (ASCII art,
non-proportional font required for viewing)

_____.___________________________________._____
|_____|___________________________________|_____| -- Beam
|| 0-- Fastener 0 ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||--Support
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| |-- Chain | ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| | _________________________________ | ||
|| |/ \| ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| | Backrest | ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| | _________________________________ | ||
|| |´ `| ||
|| | Seat | ||
|| |___________________________________| ||
|| ||
|| ||
|| ||
|| ||
\\// -- Grass \\//


But I believe you were thinking about something like what I've shown
below. In this type of hammock the force on the fasteners easily exceeds
the weight of the seat with occupants, because of the geometry, just
like you say.

| | | |
| | Fastener Chain | |
|___| / v |___|
|____}------,-----------------------------------,------{____|
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |--Support
| | |-- Chain | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | _________________________________ | | |
| | |/ \| | |
| | | | | |
| | | Backrest | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | _________________________________ | | |
| | |´ `| | |
| | | Seat | | |
| | |___________________________________| | |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
\\||// \\|||//

This should neatly reconcile your different opinions, I hope.

S.


Very nice ASCII art. However, my idea of a hammock is different. To me,
a hammock is for napping in the back yard when you should be doing
something that the SWMBO has told you to do. Usually strung between two
trees, but some come with frames for hanging.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On Sep 16, 2:46 pm, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Sep 16, 8:24 am, George wrote:

RickH wrote:
China can make things real cheap and fast, but they dont believe in QA
departments.

Don't kid yourself. They are quite capable of making quality stuff. Its
the "Walmart mentality" buyers who keep on insisting on even cheaper
prices so then the quality falls as expected.

Correct...and the cheap stuff is sold because it maximizes the profit
for the seller.

What do you think the MBAs do all day? Maximizing profit does not
include maximizing quality.

Walmart is doing this for their good...not the good of the consumer.

TMT

Oh come on American WOMEN rule WalMart, they demand low prices and
they get low prices. The amount of money women spend at Wal Mart is
far greater than the amount men spend there, women are the shoppers in
this country and thus we have Wal Mart and Target. Women dont tend to
look at global economic implications when they are shopping for the
family.

On Sep 16, 3:51 pm, "
wrote:
On Sep 15, 10:29 pm, RickH wrote:

Sounds like my Chinese kitchen faucet that lasted all of 3 days.

I hear they are planning on importing a $9000 car to the US, the
Cheri, those fuses should work in those.

They're trying to import it. Having trouble catching up on safety
though.

Good video of a crash test performed in Russia:http://news.windingroad.com/countrie...y-amulet-fails...

Holy cow, how could anything be worse than the Yugo?

On Sep 16, 9:23 pm, Sevenhundred Elves
wrote:
wrote:
Bob Ward wrote:
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 11:23:44 GMT, "Jerry Foster"
wrote:

The chairs were put away and I haven't been able to bring myself to
trust any kind of holder since then, alas.

Jeannie

I don't know the geometry of your chairs, but, in the case of a simple
hammock, the tension on the supports greatly exceeds the weight of
the person in the hammock. How greatly depends on how much the
hammock is allowed to sag.

Jerry

I question your geometry.

I question your trigonometry.

Especially on a simple hammock, where the design requires TWO points
of support. No way can you DOUBLE the user's weight by any kind of
angle trickery.

What is the tangent of 90 degrees?

Xho

Maybe you should explain what kind of hammock you mean. I think I know
what you're getting at, and what the misunderstanding is.

Below is my idea of a hammock. In this type of hammock the fasteners are
attached to the beam. The only force on the fasteners is what is
necessary to hold up the seat and its occupants. (ASCII art,
non-proportional font required for viewing)

_____.___________________________________._____
|_____|___________________________________|_____| -- Beam
|| 0-- Fastener 0 ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||--Support
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| |-- Chain | ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| | _________________________________ | ||
|| |/ \| ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| | Backrest | ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| | _________________________________ | ||
|| |´ `| ||
|| | Seat | ||
|| |___________________________________| ||
|| ||
|| ||
|| ||
|| ||
\\// -- Grass \\//

But I believe you were thinking about something like what I've shown
below. In this type of hammock the force on the fasteners easily exceeds
the weight of the seat with occupants, because of the geometry, just
like you say.

| | | |
| | Fastener Chain | |
|___| / v |___|
|____}------,-----------------------------------,------{____|
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |--Support
| | |-- Chain | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | _________________________________ | | |
| | |/ \| | |
| | | | | |
| | | Backrest | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | _________________________________ | | |
| | |´ `| | |
| | | Seat | | |
| | |___________________________________| | |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
\\||// \\|||//

This should neatly reconcile your different opinions, I hope.

S.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh my god, you've got way too much free time on your hands

Too_Many_Tools wrote:
The stockholders would get a larger dividend if the CEO got a smaller
salary.

Not if the smaller salary got a less skilled CEO.

--
If you really believe carbon dioxide causes global warming,
you should stop exhaling.

Bob Ward wrote:
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 11:00:18 -0500, wrote:


No, that was probably there. They just forgot to spec "actually test
that products are within spec". That's why sometimes you'll go to the
Circuit City and buy a box that's supposed to have a router in it, and
get home and discover that it's an old phone book.

--
Huey



If it's a Chinese phone book, it's full of Wong numbers to boot!


It's not just a joke any mo

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../wnames112.xml

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.98*10^14 fathoms per fortnight.

On Sep 16, 8:34 pm, "Noozer" wrote:
Now you are telling us that the consumer wants to give their children
poisonious toys?!?!?!

Nope... Just cheap toys.

You are so full of it.

Tom, just sit back and watch the consumer change Mattel's bottom line.

It'll be forgotten by Christmas. Sure they won't sell as much, but they'll
still make money on the other few dozen items that they brought in from
China, which have less noticable defects.

The CEO and all others responsible deserve what is going to happen to
them.

Be given a multi-million dollar retirement package and spend the rest of
their lives basking in the south of Spain?

You must not have kids...parents have long memories for people who
attempt to poison little Johnny.

Mattel is going to get creamed this Christmas.

The retailers who sell toys are breaking records trying to test
product before Christmas...they won't make the deadline.

Many parents I know have already decided to go toy lite this
Christmas...they can't trust the greedy Corporation that wants larger
profits at the expense of their children's health.

TMT

willshak wrote:

on 9/16/2007 10:23 PM Sevenhundred Elves said the following:
wrote:


Bob Ward wrote:

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 11:23:44 GMT, "Jerry Foster"
wrote:


The chairs were put away and I haven't been able to bring myself to
trust any kind of holder since then, alas.

Jeannie



I don't know the geometry of your chairs, but, in the case of a simple
hammock, the tension on the supports greatly exceeds the weight of
the person in the hammock. How greatly depends on how much the
hammock is allowed to sag.

Jerry


I question your geometry.

I question your trigonometry.

Especially on a simple hammock, where the design requires TWO points
of support. No way can you DOUBLE the user's weight by any kind of
angle trickery.

What is the tangent of 90 degrees?

Xho


Maybe you should explain what kind of hammock you mean. I think I know
what you're getting at, and what the misunderstanding is.

Below is my idea of a hammock. In this type of hammock the fasteners are
attached to the beam. The only force on the fasteners is what is
necessary to hold up the seat and its occupants. (ASCII art,
non-proportional font required for viewing)

_____.___________________________________._____
|_____|___________________________________|_____| -- Beam
|| 0-- Fastener 0 ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||--Support
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| |-- Chain | ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| | _________________________________ | ||
|| |/ \| ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| | Backrest | ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| | _________________________________ | ||
|| |´ `| ||
|| | Seat | ||
|| |___________________________________| ||
|| ||
|| ||
|| ||
|| ||
\\// -- Grass \\//


But I believe you were thinking about something like what I've shown
below. In this type of hammock the force on the fasteners easily exceeds
the weight of the seat with occupants, because of the geometry, just
like you say.

| | | |
| | Fastener Chain | |
|___| / v |___|
|____}------,-----------------------------------,------{____|
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |--Support
| | |-- Chain | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | _________________________________ | | |
| | |/ \| | |
| | | | | |
| | | Backrest | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | _________________________________ | | |
| | |´ `| | |
| | | Seat | | |
| | |___________________________________| | |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
\\||// \\|||//

This should neatly reconcile your different opinions, I hope.

S.


Very nice ASCII art. However, my idea of a hammock is different. To me,
a hammock is for napping in the back yard when you should be doing
something that the SWMBO has told you to do. Usually strung between two
trees, but some come with frames for hanging.

Ah, yes, I forgot that these are also called Hammocks in English. Sorry
about that. They have a different name in Swedish, literally translated
it would be "hanging carpet" (hängmatta). But the things I depicted
above are for some reason called hammock in Swedish. We simply borrowed
the English word, I guess. Anyway, the kind of hammock you mean would
also be afflicted by the geometric issue.

S.

RickH wrote:

On Sep 16, 9:23 pm, Sevenhundred Elves
wrote:
wrote:
Bob Ward wrote:
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 11:23:44 GMT, "Jerry Foster"
wrote:

The chairs were put away and I haven't been able to bring myself to
trust any kind of holder since then, alas.

Jeannie

I don't know the geometry of your chairs, but, in the case of a simple
hammock, the tension on the supports greatly exceeds the weight of
the person in the hammock. How greatly depends on how much the
hammock is allowed to sag.

Jerry

I question your geometry.

I question your trigonometry.

Especially on a simple hammock, where the design requires TWO points
of support. No way can you DOUBLE the user's weight by any kind of
angle trickery.

What is the tangent of 90 degrees?

Xho

Maybe you should explain what kind of hammock you mean. I think I know
what you're getting at, and what the misunderstanding is.

Below is my idea of a hammock. In this type of hammock the fasteners are
attached to the beam. The only force on the fasteners is what is
necessary to hold up the seat and its occupants. (ASCII art,
non-proportional font required for viewing)

. .
| | | | -- Beam
|| 0-- Fastener 0 ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||--Support
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| |-- Chain | ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| |/ \| ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| | Backrest | ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| | | ||
|| |´ `| ||
|| | Seat | ||
|| | | ||
|| ||
|| ||
|| ||
|| ||
\\// -- Grass \\//

But I believe you were thinking about something like what I've shown
below. In this type of hammock the force on the fasteners easily exceeds
the weight of the seat with occupants, because of the geometry, just
like you say.

| | | |
| | Fastener Chain | |
| | / v | |
| }------,-----------------------------------,------{ |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |--Support
| | |-- Chain | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | |/ \| | |
| | | | | |
| | | Backrest | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | |´ `| | |
| | | Seat | | |
| | | | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |
\\||// \\|||//

This should neatly reconcile your different opinions, I hope.

S.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh my god, you've got way too much free time on your hands

Couldn't sleep..

S.

On Sep 16, 8:58 pm, cavelamb himself wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:

Why don't we ask the stockholders of Mattel what they think of their
CEO right now?

Will he be entitled to his bonus while he is directly responsible for
exposing millions of children to lead poisoning?

I suggest prison time for his bonus so he can readjust his
priorities...proper QA for quality products.

TMT

Problem is that it's still way to early for Christmas.

If this had been big news in November - he'd be in trouble.

But by the time the Christmas season comes along it will be old news.

Yawn.

It's an attention span problem...

Richard

You too must not have kids....Mattel has to convince millions of
parents that they have safe toys.

Hmmm....buy a toy for little Sally that might poison her or buy
something else that I the parent won't have to worry about....I wonder
what they will do?

And the recall news is at the worst time for the toy industry...the
toys for Christmas are already in transit to the United States. Any
inspection will be at the retailers that sell the toys...and they will
not be able to make the deadline.

TMT

On Sep 16, 9:47 pm, RickH wrote:
On Sep 16, 2:46 pm, Too_Many_Tools wrote:





On Sep 16, 8:24 am, George wrote:

RickH wrote:
China can make things real cheap and fast, but they dont believe in QA
departments.

Don't kid yourself. They are quite capable of making quality stuff. Its
the "Walmart mentality" buyers who keep on insisting on even cheaper
prices so then the quality falls as expected.

Correct...and the cheap stuff is sold because it maximizes the profit
for the seller.

What do you think the MBAs do all day? Maximizing profit does not
include maximizing quality.

Walmart is doing this for their good...not the good of the consumer.

TMT

Oh come on American WOMEN rule WalMart, they demand low prices and
they get low prices. The amount of money women spend at Wal Mart is
far greater than the amount men spend there, women are the shoppers in
this country and thus we have Wal Mart and Target. Women dont tend to
look at global economic implications when they are shopping for the
family.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Women dont tend to look at global economic implications when they are shopping for the family

Do men? LOL

Market studies show that women are much more likely to make economic
decisions that favor the environment and global economic implications
when they are shopping for the family.

Given the information, the consumer does.

That is why companies work so hard to keep the information from
consumers.

Every wonder why companies are working so hard to keep food labeling
limited and prevent source of production labeling? Because the
consumer would rather eat food grown in America.

TMT

On Sep 16, 10:15 pm, clifto wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
The stockholders would get a larger dividend if the CEO got a smaller
salary.

Not if the smaller salary got a less skilled CEO.

--
If you really believe carbon dioxide causes global warming,
you should stop exhaling.

Haven't you heard that paying a higher salary doesn't lead to getting
a better skilled employee?

Every HR department tells that to their employees. LOL

Funny how that doesn't apply to the CEO.

Hypocrites.

Anyone want to come up with a chart that shows that higher salaries
for CEOs lead to higher skill levels? Higher company profits?

TMT