In article ,
PaPaPeng wrote:



I'd like to restate my point as "There is no point building a car like
a tank aka Detroit Iron."

Japan had this must scrap law at least 30 years ago. In their crowded
roads and limited land there were several public policy decisions that
led to the laws. The environmental one of course is to remove older
cars off the roads. Older cars have lower fuel efficiency, contribute
to air pollution as well as road pollution from oil drips. Then there
are safety concerns as older cars tend to be less well maintained yet
requiring more maintenance. The economic one is to keep Japan's car
production lines open and provide a large domestic market for new
models over shorter model change cycles.


That would never fly in the US, although the automakers and UAW
might like the law. Heck we are getting all in a lather over here about
subsidizing High Def TV converters when the change comes about so
people's TVs don't become obsolete. I can only imagine the hooha about
trying to take older cars off the road and out of the hands of the poor,
etc.

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 09:59:48 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

That would never fly in the US, although the automakers and UAW
might like the law. Heck we are getting all in a lather over here about
subsidizing High Def TV converters when the change comes about so
people's TVs don't become obsolete. I can only imagine the hooha about
trying to take older cars off the road and out of the hands of the poor,
etc.

....and rightfully so. The US has a significant love affair with some
of our classic and older cars. Even some of the brand new models are
styled like cars from generations past. A desire for certain aspects
of the past is a permanent epidemic here.

The government does a lot of silly things here, but taking away older
cars is unlikely to ever be one of them.

Bernardo

On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 09:59:48 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

In article ,
PaPaPeng wrote:



I'd like to restate my point as "There is no point building a car like
a tank aka Detroit Iron."

Japan had this must scrap law at least 30 years ago. In their crowded
roads and limited land there were several public policy decisions that
led to the laws. The environmental one of course is to remove older
cars off the roads. Older cars have lower fuel efficiency, contribute
to air pollution as well as road pollution from oil drips. Then there
are safety concerns as older cars tend to be less well maintained yet
requiring more maintenance. The economic one is to keep Japan's car
production lines open and provide a large domestic market for new
models over shorter model change cycles.


That would never fly in the US, although the automakers and UAW
might like the law. Heck we are getting all in a lather over here about
subsidizing High Def TV converters when the change comes about so
people's TVs don't become obsolete. I can only imagine the hooha about
trying to take older cars off the road and out of the hands of the poor,
etc.


There are quite a few societal consequences on car ownership that
comes to mind. I can only describe them as they arise. I don't have
that much interest in cars in general to make the link.

In the crowded Asian lands the limiting factor on car ownership is an
affordable long term parking spot at home and at the office that will
enable one to drive to work. If you live in NY or London you'll grasp
the picture instantly.

Japan has her particular problems. Arable land is scarce. Large City
properties are very expensive and their apartment building structure
limited by earthquake concerns. Townships are therefore built on less
valuable land so far out that a two hour one way commute by Bullet
Train is not uncommon.

Job expectations entails a lot of unrecorded and unpaid overtime.
Then there is that obligatory (work related) male bonding at the bar
after that. It will be a rare occasion that our salaryman gets home
earlier than midnight. He of course has to get ready for the next
day's grind at 4 or 5 am. I don't know how many hours there are in
his day but they have to add up to more than 24.

Its no wonder that the birth rate in Japan is so low that they have a
cabinet level minister for making babies. We hear of Japan's raqpidly
ageing population that will be 40 per cent of her population by 2035
or something like that. When Japanese men travel abroad for vacations
you get the horniest invasion into the fleshpots of Bangkok, Vietnam,
the Philippines and of late, China. They are picky about skin color.

Not to have a car in Singapore or Hongkong is not that big a deal as
both are just big cities and have very good public transit
connections.

In China city parking space is a problem. Labor is so cheap and
plentiful that all legal parking spots are guarded by uniformed
private guards. Yet the very wide city streets are jam-packed. The
car problems in China's cities have arisen only in the past 10 years.
It had always been a bicycle and bus cities where almost everyone
lives close to work. There are no sprawling suburban bedroom
communities. The Beijing municipal authority (with powers equivalent
to a full province) does not allow ostentatious single family homes.
All land is owned by the State and leased for private home developers
for 60 years. Commercial properties may have only 30 year leases with
an option for 30 more. The premise is that by 30 years the land will
be far more valuable for an even grander building. This also means
that the city planning authorities and potential investors can take
the grand long term view to redevelop whole districts without having
to worry about the ownership rights piecemeal. This power of
appropriation is applied very judiciously.

Public transit by bus and subway is extensive and very cheap. The bus
fare is only 1 yuan (7 1/2 cents) from terminus to terminus. China is
on a highway and high speed railway construction binge. If the
Beijing airport highway and the other Beijing highways are any
indication they are of top grade construction, better than any I have
driven on in North America. There is some nightlife in the big
cities, but not much. All remaining major businesses close at 9 pm.
The buses stop running at 10 pm. Everyone gets to go to bed at a
sensible time. For nightbirds, taxis are very cheap. Crime is very
low but not unknown. Single young ladies (walking their pet dogs) and
old ladies often go about alone after 10 pm.

In article ,
PaPaPeng wrote:



In China city parking space is a problem. Labor is so cheap and
plentiful that all legal parking spots are guarded by uniformed
private guards. Yet the very wide city streets are jam-packed. The
car problems in China's cities have arisen only in the past 10 years.
Heck, the last couple of times I've been to Beijing, you couldn't
hardly find places to park a bicycle, let alone a car.

In article , h wrote:

"PaPaPeng" wrote in message One more point. In
China private cars MUST be scrapped at 10 years.
Taxis at 8 years. There is no point making cars that will last 20
years or good for say 300,000 miles.

That's totally insane. I'm in my 50s, and I have NEVER bought a car that
wasn't at least 10 years old with around 150,000 miles, and I usually keep
them for 5-8 years. Do the Chinese just make **** cars or is the government
populated only by control freaks?

Both.


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article , h wrote:

I wouldn't drive German or American if you gave it to me free. Since Subaru
has started making cars in the USA I may have to change brands for my next
car, although that's at least 8 years away.

I'd wait and see what happens. Subaru plant in Lafayette, IN area
has impressed the honchoes with their quality to the point that they
sent a group to JAPAN to help them open up a new plant there.

On Sep 21, 7:56 pm, wrote:
On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 07:41:09 -0700, Too_Many_Tools





wrote:
On Sep 19, 6:55 pm, Lee Ayrton wrote:
On Wed, 19 Sep 2007, Ignoramus29233 wrote:
On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 10:00:26 -0400, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
Ignoramus29233 wrote:

On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 21:47:03 -0700, Too_Many_Tools
wrote:
Why can't the company making $50 shovels make $5 shovels too?

Typically, the reason for doing so is maintaining a "premium brand
identity", which makes perfect sense.
Many do. For instance, many of the store brand products you see in
target or even WalMart are made by the same guys and gals who make the
"brand name" thing you see right next to it.

I also tend to think that if Walmart has products of Company X on its
shelves, then their stuff is probably not worth buying, even not from
Walmart.

Perhaps not or, at least, not from Wal*Mart. It has long been claimed
that Wal*Mart's ability to dictate price to suppliers sometimes causes
manufacturers to compromise on quality or features in order to stay in
business, and the volume of the order makes bottom-line-this quarter sense
to make a production run with deleted features or second-run parts. For
instance: Levis. See:http://www.cio.com/article/31948/Sup...ips_How_Levi_s...

--
"We began to realize, as we plowed on with the destruction of New Jersey,
that the extent of our American lunatic fringe had been underestimated."
Orson Wells on the reaction to the _War Of The Worlds_ broadcast.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There was a business life before Walmart.

If a company doesn't like the business practices of Walmart, they can
make the business decision to find customers elsewhere.

The whining of companies about Walmart's business practice is a red
herring.

TMT

Walmart is simply doing what a vast number of Americans want - selling
a low quality item for a cheap price. If they weren't doing exactly
that then they wouldn't be a success.

You don't get to be a 900 lb. gorilla by selling a product that the
public doesn't want at a price higher then he is willing to pay.

All over the world there are companies selling quality albeit at a
higher price then Walmart. Rolex Watch comes to mind - a really well
made watch for a substantial price. I don't believe that Walmart has
harmed their business at all. Mercedes, Gucci, I could go on and on,
but quality merchandize is there if one wants to buy it.

There is an old saying in Asia, "you pay peanuts, you get monkeys".
The same can be applied to merchandize, "you buy cheap, you get
cheap".

Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Walmart is simply doing what a vast number of Americans want - selling
a low quality item for a cheap price. If they weren't doing exactly
that then they wouldn't be a success.


Agreed on their success...let them continue to sell poisoned products
and see if that success continues....



All over the world there are companies selling quality albeit at a
higher price then Walmart. Rolex Watch comes to mind - a really well
made watch for a substantial price. I don't believe that Walmart has
harmed their business at all. Mercedes, Gucci, I could go on and on,
but quality merchandize is there if one wants to buy it.


Rolex watches don't poison people and pets.

As for buying overpriced merchandise, there are many consumers with
money and no brains.

TMT

On Sep 21, 8:25 pm, jim wrote:
On Sep 21, 7:56 pm, wrote:





On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 07:41:09 -0700, Too_Many_Tools

wrote:
On Sep 19, 6:55 pm, Lee Ayrton wrote:
On Wed, 19 Sep 2007, Ignoramus29233 wrote:
On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 10:00:26 -0400, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
Ignoramus29233 wrote:

On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 21:47:03 -0700, Too_Many_Tools
wrote:
Why can't the company making $50 shovels make $5 shovels too?

Typically, the reason for doing so is maintaining a "premium brand
identity", which makes perfect sense.
Many do. For instance, many of the store brand products you see in
target or even WalMart are made by the same guys and gals who make the
"brand name" thing you see right next to it.

I also tend to think that if Walmart has products of Company X on its
shelves, then their stuff is probably not worth buying, even not from
Walmart.

Perhaps not or, at least, not from Wal*Mart. It has long been claimed
that Wal*Mart's ability to dictate price to suppliers sometimes causes
manufacturers to compromise on quality or features in order to stay in
business, and the volume of the order makes bottom-line-this quarter sense
to make a production run with deleted features or second-run parts. For
instance: Levis. See:http://www.cio.com/article/31948/Sup...ips_How_Levi_s...

--
"We began to realize, as we plowed on with the destruction of New Jersey,
that the extent of our American lunatic fringe had been underestimated."
Orson Wells on the reaction to the _War Of The Worlds_ broadcast.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There was a business life before Walmart.

If a company doesn't like the business practices of Walmart, they can
make the business decision to find customers elsewhere.

The whining of companies about Walmart's business practice is a red
herring.

TMT

Walmart is simply doing what a vast number of Americans want - selling
a low quality item for a cheap price. If they weren't doing exactly
that then they wouldn't be a success.

You don't get to be a 900 lb. gorilla by selling a product that the
public doesn't want at a price higher then he is willing to pay.

All over the world there are companies selling quality albeit at a
higher price then Walmart. Rolex Watch comes to mind - a really well
made watch for a substantial price. I don't believe that Walmart has
harmed their business at all. Mercedes, Gucci, I could go on and on,
but quality merchandize is there if one wants to buy it.

There is an old saying in Asia, "you pay peanuts, you get monkeys".
The same can be applied to merchandize, "you buy cheap, you get
cheap".

Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

As some one who works in the home improvement field Retail consumers
want cheap as I hear it every day and China produces cheap and with
low Quality . You get what you pay for people nothing more if it is
cheaper it is.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Cheap is one thing....deadly is another.

If you sold a product that kills the buyers, how long will you be in
business?

TMT

In article om,
Too_Many_Tools wrote:

If you sold a product that kills the buyers, how long will you be in
business?

Ask the cigarette companies. I guess the secret it not to kill too
quickly.

on 9/24/2007 12:26 PM Too_Many_Tools said the following:
On Sep 21, 8:25 pm, jim wrote:

On Sep 21, 7:56 pm, wrote:






On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 07:41:09 -0700, Too_Many_Tools

wrote:

On Sep 19, 6:55 pm, Lee Ayrton wrote:

On Wed, 19 Sep 2007, Ignoramus29233 wrote:

On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 10:00:26 -0400, Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
Ignoramus29233 wrote:

On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 21:47:03 -0700, Too_Many_Tools
wrote:

Why can't the company making $50 shovels make $5 shovels too?

Typically, the reason for doing so is maintaining a "premium brand
identity", which makes perfect sense.

Many do. For instance, many of the store brand products you see in
target or even WalMart are made by the same guys and gals who make the
"brand name" thing you see right next to it.

I also tend to think that if Walmart has products of Company X on its
shelves, then their stuff is probably not worth buying, even not from
Walmart.

Perhaps not or, at least, not from Wal*Mart. It has long been claimed
that Wal*Mart's ability to dictate price to suppliers sometimes causes
manufacturers to compromise on quality or features in order to stay in
business, and the volume of the order makes bottom-line-this quarter sense
to make a production run with deleted features or second-run parts. For
instance: Levis. See:http://www.cio.com/article/31948/Sup...ips_How_Levi_s...

--
"We began to realize, as we plowed on with the destruction of New Jersey,
that the extent of our American lunatic fringe had been underestimated."
Orson Wells on the reaction to the _War Of The Worlds_ broadcast.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There was a business life before Walmart.

If a company doesn't like the business practices of Walmart, they can
make the business decision to find customers elsewhere.

The whining of companies about Walmart's business practice is a red
herring.

TMT

Walmart is simply doing what a vast number of Americans want - selling
a low quality item for a cheap price. If they weren't doing exactly
that then they wouldn't be a success.

You don't get to be a 900 lb. gorilla by selling a product that the
public doesn't want at a price higher then he is willing to pay.

All over the world there are companies selling quality albeit at a
higher price then Walmart. Rolex Watch comes to mind - a really well
made watch for a substantial price. I don't believe that Walmart has
harmed their business at all. Mercedes, Gucci, I could go on and on,
but quality merchandize is there if one wants to buy it.

There is an old saying in Asia, "you pay peanuts, you get monkeys".
The same can be applied to merchandize, "you buy cheap, you get
cheap".

Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

As some one who works in the home improvement field Retail consumers
want cheap as I hear it every day and China produces cheap and with
low Quality . You get what you pay for people nothing more if it is
cheaper it is.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Cheap is one thing....deadly is another.

If you sold a product that kills the buyers, how long will you be in
business?

TMT


Cigarette manufacturers have been in business a long time.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 10:14:46 -0400, h wrote:


On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 20:57:24 +0700, wrote:

A toyota is for the proletariat...

Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

Or for anyone who doesn't give a rodent's behind about cars or about what
other people think. For me, a car gets me and my stuff from point A to point
B. That's it. Why on earth would I spend money on something I don't care
about? I'm 50, and I'm on my fourth car. I always buy 10 year old cars and
keep them for 8-10 years. I've owned 2 Toyotas and I'm on my second Subaru.
I wouldn't drive German or American if you gave it to me free. Since Subaru
has started making cars in the USA I may have to change brands for my next
car, although that's at least 8 years away.


Doesn't have to be cars, can be anything. The point was that (to
paraphrase) "quality" is very much in the eye of the beholder". If you
need a tool to do one single repetition of a task and the cheap
Chinese tool did it then for that example it was "quality", although
it very likely would not be if you were going to use it continuously
or for a long period.

Back when I was much younger a chevrolet was deemed to be a "good" car
in some parts of the U.S., while in other parts of the country a
Plymouth was seen to be a much better vehicle even though if one
disregarded the sheet metal they were very similar - six cylinder
inline engines, 3 speed manual transmission, hydraulic brakes, etc.,
but people would argue for ever about which one was "better".

Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 09:25:24 -0700, Too_Many_Tools
wrote:

On Sep 21, 7:56 pm, wrote:
On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 07:41:09 -0700, Too_Many_Tools

Much snipped


- Show quoted text -


Walmart is simply doing what a vast number of Americans want - selling
a low quality item for a cheap price. If they weren't doing exactly
that then they wouldn't be a success.


Agreed on their success...let them continue to sell poisoned products
and see if that success continues....



All over the world there are companies selling quality albeit at a
higher price then Walmart. Rolex Watch comes to mind - a really well
made watch for a substantial price. I don't believe that Walmart has
harmed their business at all. Mercedes, Gucci, I could go on and on,
but quality merchandize is there if one wants to buy it.


Rolex watches don't poison people and pets.

As for buying overpriced merchandise, there are many consumers with
money and no brains.

TMT

Sorry, I don't agree with you. Unless a substantial number of people
are actually poisoned and die and criminal charges filed and headlines
in the newspapers, TV, etc., I doubt that Walmart's business will
suffer. If you don't believe me then go down to your local Walmart
next Saturday and count the people coming out with bags of stuff. All
the "news" about the lead paint and the dog food probably hasn't even
made a glitch in their profit for the year.

As for overpriced merchandise, again "quality" is very much in the
mind of the user. In my mind Harbor Freight is a good example of a
company that is selling overpriced goods but from reading this news
group it appears that they are doing a booming business in the U.S.
although I haven't been in a shop in S.E.A. that uses the kind of
stuff that they sell. The Chinese do make industrial machinery that
stands up to commercial use but it isn't sold through Harbor Freight.

Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 09:26:45 -0700, Too_Many_Tools
wrote:

On Sep 21, 8:25 pm, jim wrote:
On Sep 21, 7:56 pm, wrote:

Much snipped


As some one who works in the home improvement field Retail consumers
want cheap as I hear it every day and China produces cheap and with
low Quality . You get what you pay for people nothing more if it is
cheaper it is.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Cheap is one thing....deadly is another.

If you sold a product that kills the buyers, how long will you be in
business?

TMT

How many people has Walmart killed recently?


Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

On Sep 17, 1:01 pm, "Noozer" wrote:
"I will pay more (for toys) because I know it will ensure safety,"
said Lisa Sallese, a Wilton, Conn., mother of a 7-month-old boy and a
2-year-old girl. "But it stinks. It should have been safe to begin
with."

...and she pays twice as much for a insert well known toy company here toy
instead of a Mattel toy, not knowing that both companies had stuff
manufactured at the same plant inChina.

Sounds like a WIN solution for the toy companies. They can double their
prices, citing increased safety costs, while not actually doing anything to
improve safety.

EXACTLY. When my cats began to refuse their favorite store brand cat
food, I switched to Iams. Guess what? That was poisoned, too, although
I didn't know it until March. Now I just make their cat food.

On Sep 16, 2:23 pm, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Sep 15, 10:29 pm, RickH wrote:





On Sep 15, 8:36 pm, Jeff Wisnia wrote:

Automotive fuses...

Today's mail brought me a Safety Recall notice from Harbor Freight
telling me to stop using, remove any in use, and return the 120 piece
Mini-Blade Automotive Fuse Assortment I'd tacked onto an order I placed
with them a few months ago, because getting 120 fuses for $4.99 seemed
like a good deal. (TOO good a deal I guess...)

They're paying the postage, will refund $4.99 and gave me a "$5.00 Off
coupon" good till next February.

The recall notice includes this explanation:

"Specifically, manufacturing inconsistencies max exiat with the
materials, connections or size of the fuse elements which could result
in the fuses failing to protect the circuit from exessive current which
could cause damage to a vehicle and possibly a fire."

What's next folks?

The fuse issue isn't as funny as the "Stove Bolt Assortment" I bought
from Harbor Freight several years ago and stuck on the shelf. When I
finally wanted to use eight matching fasteners rather than the onsies
and twosies I can get from my "hell box" I went to that assortment, only
to find that all the 10-24 nuts in it had missed the threading operation
and had smooth bore holes in them.

Just for ****s and grins I wrote a letter to HF and taped a couple of
the unthreaded nuts to it. I described the problem and explained that I
assumed the threads were on backorder and asked when they expected to
ship them to me. I wasn't sure what that would get me, but figured
someone might get a laugh out of it and maybe send me another box of
fasteners.

Unfortunatly, my letter was answered by some ditzy woman with no sense
of humor because I all I got was a letter from her saying my complaint
exceeded their allowable time limit for returns and there was nothing
they could do about it now.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.98*10^14 fathoms per fortnight.

Sounds like my Chinese kitchen faucet that lasted all of 3 days.

I hear they are planning on importing a $9000 car to the US, the
Cheri, those fuses should work in those.

China can make things real cheap and fast, but they dont believe in QA
departments.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The consumer IS the QA department.

And the irony is that it is American companies that are selling the
stuff to us.

They are the ones who closed their eyes to this developing problem.

And they are as usual trying to pass the buck to the supplier instead
of taking responsiblity themselves.

TMT- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh look...another recall...who would have thought?

TMT

Chinese-made jewelry and toys recalled By CHRISTINE SIMMONS,
Associated Press Writer
Wed Sep 26, 8:03 PM ET



Toys and children's necklaces made in China were recalled Wednesday,
including five more items from the popular Thomas & Friends Wooden
Railway product line, because they contain dangerous levels of lead.

RC2 Corp.'s "Knights of the Sword" series toys and some of its Thomas
and Friends items, along with floor puppet theaters and gardening
tools and chairs for children, were among the more than 601,000 toys
and children's jewelry announced in the recall by the Consumer Product
Safety Commission.

The recalled toys contain high levels of lead in their surface paint,
and the necklaces and jewelry sets contain excessive lead in some of
their metal parts.

Under current regulations, children's products found to have more
than .06 percent lead accessible to users are subject to a recall. The
government warned parents to make sure children are not playing or
using any of the recalled products.

This is the second recall from the Thomas & Friends product line after
RC2 Corp. announced June 13 a recall of 1.5 million wooden railway
toys. The company is recalling five items, totaling about 200,000 toys
in all, of Thomas & Friends toys not included in the first recall.

"I don't think consumers have seen the end to lead paint recalls,"
said Julie Vallese, a spokeswoman for the Consumer Product Safety
Commission.

"There's been a very concentrated, concerted effort by both the CPSC
and the industry to do a top-to-bottom investigation of the products
to make sure they are not in violation with any toy safety standards,"
said Vallese. "Today's recall is a result of that work."

The recalls include:

· About 23,500 more necklaces, bracelets and pendants imported by TOBY
N.Y.C. of New York. This expands the company's recall of jewelry sets
announced on Aug. 22. The recalled products were sold at T.J. Maxx,
Marshalls, A.J. Wright, Cracker Barrel and Shopko stores nationwide
from August 2006 through August 2007. For more information, call the
company at 866-235-0588.

· About 850 children's Spinning Wheel Necklace necklaces, produced by
Rhode Island Novelty of Cumberland, R.I. The necklaces were sold
nationwide from November 2006 through May 2007. For more information,
call the company 800-528-5599 or visit its Web site at http://www.rinovelty..com.

· Happy Giddy Gardening Tools and Children's Sunny Patch Chairs,
imported by Target Corp. of Minneapolis, Minn. The recall involves
350,000 of the toys. The gardening tools and chairs were manufactured
by Starite International Ltd. of Taiwan. The toys were sold nationwide
from August 2006 through August 2007. For more information, contact
Target at 800-440-0680 or visit its Web site at http://www.target.com.

· About 200,000 Thomas and Friends Wood Railway Toys and 800 Britain's
"Knights of the Sword" series toys, distributed by RC2 Corp., of Oak
Brook, Ill. The five recalled Thomas and Friends items, sold
nationwide from March 2003 through September 2007, include the all-
black cargo car, toad vehicle, olive green sodor cargo box and all-
green maple tree top and signal base accessories. The "Knights of the
Sword" recalled toys products include three items: a mounted silver
knight on a red horse with an ax; a mounted silver knight on a red
horse with two hands on a raised weapon; and a mounted silver knight
on a red horse with a lance. The products were sold at specialty toy
stores nationwide from April 2004 through March 2006. For more
information, contact RC2 at 866-725-4407 or visit the firm's Web site
at http://recalls.rc2.com.

· About 16,000 children's toy rakes imported by Jo-Ann Stores Inc., of
Hudson, Ohio. The rakes, each about 24 inches long with a yellow duck
head attached to the green handle, were sold only at Jo-Ann Fabric and
Craft Stores from January 2007 from September 2007. For more
information, contact the company at 888-739-4120, option 7, or visit
the firm's Web site at http://www.joann.com/.

· An estimated 10,000 Floor Puppet Theaters produced by Guidecraft
Inc., of Englewood, N.J. The recalled puppet theaters, each with a
chalkboard surface on the front and colored side panels, were sold
nationwide in specialty toy stores, gift shops, catalogs and Web sites
from June 2006 through August 2007. For more information, contact the
company at 888-824-1308 or visit its Web site at http://www.guidecraft.com.

___

On the Net:

Consumer Product Safety Commission: http://www.cpsc.gov.

On Sep 15, 7:36 pm, Jeff Wisnia wrote:
Automotive fuses...

Today's mail brought me a Safety Recall notice from Harbor Freight
telling me to stop using, remove any in use, and return the 120 piece
Mini-Blade Automotive Fuse Assortment I'd tacked onto an order I placed
with them a few months ago, because getting 120 fuses for $4.99 seemed
like a good deal. (TOO good a deal I guess...)

They're paying the postage, will refund $4.99 and gave me a "$5.00 Off
coupon" good till next February.

The recall notice includes this explanation:

"Specifically, manufacturing inconsistencies max exiat with the
materials, connections or size of the fuse elements which could result
in the fuses failing to protect the circuit from exessive current which
could cause damage to a vehicle and possibly a fire."

What's next folks?

The fuse issue isn't as funny as the "Stove Bolt Assortment" I bought
from Harbor Freight several years ago and stuck on the shelf. When I
finally wanted to use eight matching fasteners rather than the onsies
and twosies I can get from my "hell box" I went to that assortment, only
to find that all the 10-24 nuts in it had missed the threading operation
and had smooth bore holes in them.

Just for ****s and grins I wrote a letter to HF and taped a couple of
the unthreaded nuts to it. I described the problem and explained that I
assumed the threads were on backorder and asked when they expected to
ship them to me. I wasn't sure what that would get me, but figured
someone might get a laugh out of it and maybe send me another box of
fasteners.

Unfortunatly, my letter was answered by some ditzy woman with no sense
of humor because I all I got was a letter from her saying my complaint
exceeded their allowable time limit for returns and there was nothing
they could do about it now.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.98*10^14 fathoms per fortnight.

Check this out....the time for a new Administration is long overdue.

TMT

October 30, 2007
Bigger Budget? No, Responds Safety Agency
By STEPHEN LABATON
WASHINGTON, Oct. 29 - The nation's top official for consumer product
safety has asked Congress in recent days to reject legislation
intended to strengthen the agency, which polices thousands of consumer
goods, from toys to tools.

On the eve of an important Senate committee meeting to consider the
legislation, Nancy A. Nord, the acting chairwoman of the Consumer
Product Safety Commission, has asked lawmakers in two letters not to
approve the bulk of legislation that would increase the agency's
authority, double its budget and sharply increase its dwindling
staff.

Ms. Nord opposes provisions that would increase the maximum penalties
for safety violations and make it easier for the government to make
public reports of faulty products, protect industry whistle-blowers
and prosecute executives of companies that willfully violate laws.

The measure is an effort to buttress an agency that has been under
siege because of a raft of tainted and dangerous products manufactured
both domestically and abroad. In the last two months alone, more than
13 million toys have been recalled after tests indicated lead levels
that sometimes reached almost 200 times the safety limit.

Ms. Nord's opposition to important elements of the legislation is
consistent with the broadly deregulatory approach of the Bush
administration over the last seven years. In a variety of areas, from
antitrust to trucking and worker safety, officials appointed by
President Bush have sought to reduce the role of regulation and
government in the marketplace.

Tony Fratto, a White House spokesman, said that Ms. Nord had not
coordinated her effort to kill the legislation with the White House.
But he said that the administration shared many of her concerns and
that Allan Hubbard, President Bush's top economic adviser at the White
House, was preparing to send a letter to Congress "that is probably
even more forceful than Ms. Nord's."

The Senate Commerce Committee is set to vote on Tuesday on the
legislation, which is sponsored by Senator Daniel K. Inouye, the
Hawaii Democrat who heads the committee, and Senator Mark Pryor, the
Arkansas Democrat who heads the consumer affairs subcommittee.

It would more than double the agency's budget, to $141 million, over
the next seven years, raise staffing levels by about 20 percent, and
give the commission broad new powers to police the marketplace. It
would raise the cap on the maximum penalties to $100 million, from
$1.8 million.

Ms. Nord, who before joining the agency had been a lawyer at Eastman
Kodak and an official at the United States Chamber of Commerce,
criticized the measure in letters sent late last week and on Monday
afternoon to the Democratic leaders of the committee. She was
critical, for instance, of a provision to ban lead from all toys,
saying it was not practical. She said that the proposal to raise the
potential penalty to $100 million "may have the undesired consequence
of firms, as a precautionary measure, flooding the agency with
virtually every consumer complaint and incident." Her concern, she
said, was that the increase in complaints would so overwhelm the
commission that, "true safety issues would go unrecognized in the
process."

She also criticized a provision that would give state prosecutors the
authority to enforce the federal consumer safety laws.

Manufacturers had agreed to another provision that would assign
independent laboratories to test and certify the safety of products,
rather than the agency. But Ms. Nord said she objected to the
provision. She preferred that the agency determine the conditions for
using independent laboratories.

Some of Ms. Nord's complaints were similar to the ones that business
groups and manufacturers have raised, including that the legislation
would be unnecessarily burdensome. But in other areas, like whistle-
blower protection, her complaints went beyond those of industry.

While companies generally have not objected to giving protection to
whistle-blowers in the industries regulated by the commission, for
example, she said it would "dramatically drain the limited resources
of the commission, to the direct detriment of public safety."

While Ms. Nord said she supported the committee's efforts in general,
she issued a more modest proposal than the one under consideration in
the Senate. It would, among other things, increase the maximum amount
of civil penalties to $10 million, create incentives for companies to
halt sales of recalled products quickly, and give the government the
authority to seize assets of a company found to have violated criminal
safety laws.

Senator Pryor said Ms. Nord's objections surprised him.

"It's hard for me to know if it's just ideological or she is just
expressing the wishes of the administration," Mr. Pryor said. "Either
way it comes to the same conclusion, and that is that they say they
want more resources, but they are very reluctant to accept those
resources."

Consumer advocates also said they were stunned by the letter.

"It was remarkable to send a letter like that to a committee, when
you're in dire straits and you need increased funding and you've
acknowledged that," said Ellen Bloom, director of federal policy at
Consumers Union.

The agency has suffered from a steady decline in its budget and
staffing in recent years. Its staff numbers about 420, about half its
size in the 1980s. It has only one full-time employee to test toys.
And 15 inspectors are assigned to police all imports of consumer
products under the agency's supervision, a marketplace that last year
was valued at $614 billion.

Through an agency spokesman, Ms. Nord declined to discuss her
opposition to the legislation.

Ms. Nord's letter was challenged by the Democrat on the commission,
Thomas H. Moore. In a letter last week, Mr. Moore told the lawmakers
that he generally supported the legislation for being "strongly pro-
consumer."

On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:12:27 -0700, Too_Many_Tools
wrote:

On Sep 15, 7:36 pm, Jeff Wisnia wrote:
Automotive fuses...

Today's mail brought me a Safety Recall notice from Harbor Freight
telling me to stop using, remove any in use, and return the 120 piece
Mini-Blade Automotive Fuse Assortment I'd tacked onto an order I placed
with them a few months ago, because getting 120 fuses for $4.99 seemed
like a good deal. (TOO good a deal I guess...)

They're paying the postage, will refund $4.99 and gave me a "$5.00 Off
coupon" good till next February.

The recall notice includes this explanation:

"Specifically, manufacturing inconsistencies max exiat with the
materials, connections or size of the fuse elements which could result
in the fuses failing to protect the circuit from exessive current which
could cause damage to a vehicle and possibly a fire."

What's next folks?

The fuse issue isn't as funny as the "Stove Bolt Assortment" I bought
from Harbor Freight several years ago and stuck on the shelf. When I
finally wanted to use eight matching fasteners rather than the onsies
and twosies I can get from my "hell box" I went to that assortment, only
to find that all the 10-24 nuts in it had missed the threading operation
and had smooth bore holes in them.

Just for ****s and grins I wrote a letter to HF and taped a couple of
the unthreaded nuts to it. I described the problem and explained that I
assumed the threads were on backorder and asked when they expected to
ship them to me. I wasn't sure what that would get me, but figured
someone might get a laugh out of it and maybe send me another box of
fasteners.

Unfortunatly, my letter was answered by some ditzy woman with no sense
of humor because I all I got was a letter from her saying my complaint
exceeded their allowable time limit for returns and there was nothing
they could do about it now.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.98*10^14 fathoms per fortnight.



And you still buy from these crooks??????????

I would not do business with that company if my life depended on it.

I liked your letter to them though. Pretty funny !!!!
I bet that box of nuts and bolts cost you less than $2, which means it
cost them under a buck. This just shows how lousy their business
really is. If they are willing to lose a customer (and the friends of
that customer) over a buck or two, then their whole business is
garbage.

I once bought from another similar ripoff company called Homier. I
bought a $8 plastic guard. When I got home I opened the box and the
whole thing was broken into many pieces. I contacted the company by
email, did not get a reply, I phoned and only got an ans. machine and
never got a return call. After I finally filed a complaint with a
consumer protection agency, they sent me a reply in which they said
that they do not warranty their tools against customer abuse, and
stated that from the damages I described I had abused the thing......
went on to explain how they carefully inspect everything.... blah
blah... also went on that even if the item was defective that it was
beyond their warranty date (even though I had contacted them at least
10 times over an 8 month period, before I filed the formal complaint.

I responded back telling them that they just lost a customer for life
over an $8 item that probably cost them less than $2, and I'd be sure
to tell everyone I know to avoid them.

All of those places are crooks. They get these discarded foreign junk
tools and make a big profit, and dont stand behind their junk. I cant
always afford the top of the line tools like SK or others. Years ago
I would buy Craftsman, but they are not what they used to be now
either. But I refuse to buy that junk stuff from these "disposible"
companies. I find that the tools at places like Ace Hardware are
decent, and are returnable. Sure they cost more than Harbor Freight,
but you get what you pay for. At the same time I have boughten some
of the "house brand" power tools from Menards (knowing I can return
them), and have not been disappointed.

On Oct 31, 7:12 pm, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Sep 15, 7:36 pm, Jeff Wisnia wrote:





Automotive fuses...

Today's mail brought me a Safety Recall notice from Harbor Freight
telling me to stop using, remove any in use, and return the 120 piece
Mini-Blade Automotive Fuse Assortment I'd tacked onto an order I placed
with them a few months ago, because getting 120 fuses for $4.99 seemed
like a good deal. (TOO good a deal I guess...)

They're paying the postage, will refund $4.99 and gave me a "$5.00 Off
coupon" good till next February.

The recall notice includes this explanation:

"Specifically, manufacturing inconsistencies max exiat with the
materials, connections or size of the fuse elements which could result
in the fuses failing to protect the circuit from exessive current which
could cause damage to a vehicle and possibly a fire."

What's next folks?

The fuse issue isn't as funny as the "Stove Bolt Assortment" I bought
from Harbor Freight several years ago and stuck on the shelf. When I
finally wanted to use eight matching fasteners rather than the onsies
and twosies I can get from my "hell box" I went to that assortment, only
to find that all the 10-24 nuts in it had missed the threading operation
and had smooth bore holes in them.

Just for ****s and grins I wrote a letter to HF and taped a couple of
the unthreaded nuts to it. I described the problem and explained that I
assumed the threads were on backorder and asked when they expected to
ship them to me. I wasn't sure what that would get me, but figured
someone might get a laugh out of it and maybe send me another box of
fasteners.

Unfortunatly, my letter was answered by some ditzy woman with no sense
of humor because I all I got was a letter from her saying my complaint
exceeded their allowable time limit for returns and there was nothing
they could do about it now.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.98*10^14 fathoms per fortnight.

Check this out....the time for a new Administration is long overdue.

TMT

October 30, 2007
Bigger Budget? No, Responds Safety Agency
By STEPHEN LABATON
WASHINGTON, Oct. 29 - The nation's top official for consumer product
safety has asked Congress in recent days to reject legislation
intended to strengthen the agency, which polices thousands of consumer
goods, from toys to tools.

On the eve of an important Senate committee meeting to consider the
legislation, Nancy A. Nord, the acting chairwoman of the Consumer
Product Safety Commission, has asked lawmakers in two letters not to
approve the bulk of legislation that would increase the agency's
authority, double its budget and sharply increase its dwindling
staff.

Ms. Nord opposes provisions that would increase the maximum penalties
for safety violations and make it easier for the government to make
public reports of faulty products, protect industry whistle-blowers
and prosecute executives of companies that willfully violate laws.

The measure is an effort to buttress an agency that has been under
siege because of a raft of tainted and dangerous products manufactured
both domestically and abroad. In the last two months alone, more than
13 million toys have been recalled after tests indicated lead levels
that sometimes reached almost 200 times the safety limit.

Ms. Nord's opposition to important elements of the legislation is
consistent with the broadly deregulatory approach of the Bush
administration over the last seven years. In a variety of areas, from
antitrust to trucking and worker safety, officials appointed by
President Bush have sought to reduce the role of regulation and
government in the marketplace.

Tony Fratto, a White House spokesman, said that Ms. Nord had not
coordinated her effort to kill the legislation with the White House.
But he said that the administration shared many of her concerns and
that Allan Hubbard, President Bush's top economic adviser at the White
House, was preparing to send a letter to Congress "that is probably
even more forceful than Ms. Nord's."

The Senate Commerce Committee is set to vote on Tuesday on the
legislation, which is sponsored by Senator Daniel K. Inouye, the
Hawaii Democrat who heads the committee, and Senator Mark Pryor, the
Arkansas Democrat who heads the consumer affairs subcommittee.

It would more than double the agency's budget, to $141 million, over
the next seven years, raise staffing levels by about 20 percent, and
give the commission broad new powers to police the marketplace. It
would raise the cap on the maximum penalties to $100 million, from
$1.8 million.

Ms. Nord, who before joining the agency had been a lawyer at Eastman
Kodak and an official at the United States Chamber of Commerce,
criticized the measure in letters sent late last week and on Monday
afternoon to the Democratic leaders of the committee. She was
critical, for instance, of a provision to ban lead from all toys,
saying it was not practical. She said that the proposal to raise the
potential penalty to $100 million "may have the undesired consequence
of firms, as a precautionary measure, flooding the agency with
virtually every consumer complaint and incident." Her concern, she
said, was that the increase in complaints would so overwhelm the
commission that, "true safety issues would go unrecognized in the
process."

She also criticized a provision that would give state prosecutors the
authority to enforce the federal consumer safety laws.

Manufacturers had agreed to another provision that would assign
independent laboratories to test and certify the safety of products,
rather than the agency. But Ms. Nord said she objected to the
provision. She preferred that the agency determine the conditions for
using independent laboratories.

Some of Ms. Nord's complaints were similar to the ones that business
groups and manufacturers have raised, including that the legislation
would be unnecessarily burdensome. But in other areas, like whistle-
blower protection, her complaints went beyond those of industry.

While companies generally have not objected to giving protection to
whistle-blowers in the industries regulated by the commission, for
example, she said it would "dramatically drain the limited resources
of the commission, to the direct detriment of public safety."

While Ms. Nord said she supported the committee's efforts in general,
she issued a more modest proposal than the one under consideration in
the Senate. It would, among other things, increase the maximum amount
of civil penalties to $10 million, create incentives for companies to
halt sales of recalled products quickly, and give the government the
authority to seize assets of a company found to have violated criminal
safety laws.

Senator Pryor said Ms. Nord's objections surprised him.

"It's hard for me to know if it's just ideological or she is just
expressing the wishes of the administration," Mr. Pryor said. "Either
way it comes to the same conclusion, and that is that they say they
want more resources, but they are very reluctant to accept those
resources."

Consumer advocates also said they were stunned by the letter.

"It was remarkable to send a letter like that to a committee, when
you're in dire straits and you need increased funding and you've
acknowledged that," said Ellen Bloom, director of federal policy at
Consumers Union.

The agency has suffered from a steady decline in its budget and
staffing in recent years. Its staff numbers about 420, about half its
size in the 1980s. It has only one full-time employee to test toys.
And 15 inspectors are assigned to police all imports of consumer
products under the agency's supervision, a marketplace that last year
was valued at $614 billion.

Through an agency spokesman, Ms. Nord declined to discuss her
opposition to the legislation.

Ms. Nord's letter was challenged by the Democrat on the commission,
Thomas H. Moore. In a letter last week, Mr. Moore told the lawmakers
that he generally supported the legislation for being "strongly pro-
consumer."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

FYI...

TMT

Doctors urged on signs of lead poisoning By MIKE STOBBE, AP Medical
Writer
Thu Nov 1, 9:05 PM ET



Children with blood lead levels lower than the U.S. standard may still
suffer lower IQs or other problems, a government advisory panel said
Thursday as it urged doctors to be more alert to signs of lead
poisoning.

The warning, in a report from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and
Prevention, comes amid growing parent concerns over imported toys with
lead.

Lead poisoning can cause irreversible learning disabilities and
behavioral problems and, at very high levels, seizures, coma and even
death.

The CDC has never set a threshold for what defines lead poisoning. But
it created a standard of sorts in 1991 when it said a lead level of 10
micrograms per deciliter of blood should prompt a doctor to assess the
child's environment and take other protective steps.

"You can have toxicity at levels all the way down to zero," said Dr.
Morri Markowitz, director of the pediatric environmental sciences
clinic at New York City's Montefiore Medical Center. He was not
involved in the report.

However, the guideline of 10 micrograms has become the number that
doctors use when deciding to refer a child for further attention. The
same number is used in Canada and Britain.

This is the first time the Advisory Committee on Childhood Lead
Poisoning Prevention has focused on the risks to children with lower
levels of lead in their blood, said Dr. Helen Binns of Northwestern
University, primary author of the report.

The panel isn't proposing a new standard, she said, but is
"emphasizing that all levels are important."

The report is being published in the November issue of the medical
journal Pediatrics.

Children with blood lead levels below 10, or even those up to 20,
exhibit no obvious symptoms. But scientists believe intellectual
development may be affected at lower levels.

The new report was driven by recent research that indicated
differences in intellectual development of children with measurable
levels of lead poisoning as compared to other kids.

The paper advises doctors how to talk to parents of children who have
lower levels of lead and how to describe the risk, nutrition changes
and safeguards to prevent any additional exposure, Binns said.

There's no treatment proven effective at reducing these lead levels in
children, said Mary Jean Brown, chief of the CDC's lead poisoning
prevention branch.

"We don't have an intervention that will lower a blood lead level from
8 to 4," she said.

The paper also recommends that doctors check the labs they use for
testing blood, because some are more exact than others.

Approximately 310,000 U.S. children aged 1-5 years have blood lead
levels greater than 10 micrograms of lead per deciliter of blood,
according to CDC estimates. That's fewer than 2 percent of children in
that age bracket.

______

On the Net:

The CDC report: http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr