I heard that in another year or so we will all be forced to either buy
a HDTV or buy a converter. Having all standard tv sets, and I am
neither able to afford a HDTV, nor am I impressed by their picture, I
am not at all happy about this. I live in the country where the only
means to get tv channels is to either spend half my paycheck on
satellite, or use an antenna on the roof. I chose the antenna, and
most of the time I get fairly good reception on a few local channels.

I suppose I will have no choice but to buy a convertor, but I surely
will make a big fuss about it with whatever governmental agency is
behind this conspiracy to promote the sales of HDTVs and the crappy
broken up and spotty pictures they produce. I sure hope that the
convertor will produce a better picture on a standard tv than that on
the actual hdtvs.

Anyhow, my question is whether I will also have to buy a new rooftop
antenna. My present antenna broke during a windstorm and I
temporarily fixed it with some tubing and ducttape. I was planning to
buy a new antenna when a friend told me that he thinks I will need a
HDTV antenna too, but was not sure if an old antenna would also work.
Does anyone know? Will I be able to use the same rotor or does that
need to be changed too?

If anyone knows what government agency to file a complaint about this
HDTV conspiracy, please let me know. Tv channels have been the same
since the beginning of television, and now we got these republican
morons forcing us to change just so the HDTV companies can rob people
charging them ten or more times the price of a regular tv and giving
them a lousy picture. Just the same story as always these days, pay
more, and get less..... I wonder how much money the republicans are
getting to shove this HDTV **** on us?

James

wrote in message
...
I heard that in another year or so we will all be forced to either buy
a HDTV or buy a converter. Having all standard tv sets, and I am
neither able to afford a HDTV, nor am I impressed by their picture, I
am not at all happy about this. I live in the country where the only
means to get tv channels is to either spend half my paycheck on
satellite, or use an antenna on the roof. I chose the antenna, and
most of the time I get fairly good reception on a few local channels.

I suppose I will have no choice but to buy a convertor, but I surely
will make a big fuss about it with whatever governmental agency is
behind this conspiracy to promote the sales of HDTVs and the crappy
broken up and spotty pictures they produce. I sure hope that the
convertor will produce a better picture on a standard tv than that on
the actual hdtvs.

Anyhow, my question is whether I will also have to buy a new rooftop
antenna. My present antenna broke during a windstorm and I
temporarily fixed it with some tubing and ducttape. I was planning to
buy a new antenna when a friend told me that he thinks I will need a
HDTV antenna too, but was not sure if an old antenna would also work.
Does anyone know? Will I be able to use the same rotor or does that
need to be changed too?

If anyone knows what government agency to file a complaint about this
HDTV conspiracy, please let me know. Tv channels have been the same
since the beginning of television, and now we got these republican
morons forcing us to change just so the HDTV companies can rob people
charging them ten or more times the price of a regular tv and giving
them a lousy picture. Just the same story as always these days, pay
more, and get less..... I wonder how much money the republicans are
getting to shove this HDTV **** on us?

James

Unless the program you are viewing on a HDTV is broadcast in HD, your
picture will not be very good. If fact it probably wont be as good as the
ones you receive on a regular TV set. However, if it is a HD program the
picture will be extremely clear and beautiful when viewed on A HDTV, if not
something is very wrong.

My roof antenna gets crystal clear HD signal. Better than satellite

On Aug 20, 4:18 am, wrote:
I heard that in another year or so we will all be forced to either buy
a HDTV or buy a converter. Having all standard tv sets, and I am
neither able to afford a HDTV, nor am I impressed by their picture, I
am not at all happy about this. I live in the country where the only
means to get tv channels is to either spend half my paycheck on
satellite, or use an antenna on the roof. I chose the antenna, and
most of the time I get fairly good reception on a few local channels.

I suppose I will have no choice but to buy a convertor, but I surely
will make a big fuss about it with whatever governmental agency is
behind this conspiracy to promote the sales of HDTVs and the crappy
broken up and spotty pictures they produce. I sure hope that the
convertor will produce a better picture on a standard tv than that on
the actual hdtvs.

Anyhow, my question is whether I will also have to buy a new rooftop
antenna. My present antenna broke during a windstorm and I
temporarily fixed it with some tubing and ducttape. I was planning to
buy a new antenna when a friend told me that he thinks I will need a
HDTV antenna too, but was not sure if an old antenna would also work.
Does anyone know? Will I be able to use the same rotor or does that
need to be changed too?

If anyone knows what government agency to file a complaint about this
HDTV conspiracy, please let me know. Tv channels have been the same
since the beginning of television, and now we got these republican
morons forcing us to change just so the HDTV companies can rob people
charging them ten or more times the price of a regular tv and giving
them a lousy picture. Just the same story as always these days, pay
more, and get less..... I wonder how much money the republicans are
getting to shove this HDTV **** on us?

James

On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 03:18:40 -0500, wrote:
I heard that in another year or so we will all be forced to either buy
a HDTV or buy a converter. Having all standard tv sets, and I am
neither able to afford a HDTV, nor am I impressed by their picture, I
am not at all happy about this. I live in the country where the only
means to get tv channels is to either spend half my paycheck on
satellite, or use an antenna on the roof. I chose the antenna, and
most of the time I get fairly good reception on a few local channels.

I suppose I will have no choice but to buy a convertor, but I surely
will make a big fuss about it with whatever governmental agency is
behind this conspiracy to promote the sales of HDTVs and the crappy
broken up and spotty pictures they produce. I sure hope that the
convertor will produce a better picture on a standard tv than that on
the actual hdtvs.

Anyhow, my question is whether I will also have to buy a new rooftop
antenna. My present antenna broke during a windstorm and I
temporarily fixed it with some tubing and ducttape. I was planning to
buy a new antenna when a friend told me that he thinks I will need a
HDTV antenna too, but was not sure if an old antenna would also work.
Does anyone know? Will I be able to use the same rotor or does that
need to be changed too?

If anyone knows what government agency to file a complaint about this
HDTV conspiracy, please let me know. Tv channels have been the same
since the beginning of television, and now we got these republican
morons forcing us to change just so the HDTV companies can rob people
charging them ten or more times the price of a regular tv and giving
them a lousy picture. Just the same story as always these days, pay
more, and get less..... I wonder how much money the republicans are
getting to shove this HDTV **** on us?

James

Check out http://www.dtv.gov

--
Art Greenberg
artg at eclipse dot net

wrote:

If anyone knows what government agency to file a complaint about this
HDTV conspiracy, please let me know. Tv channels have been the same
since the beginning of television, and now we got these republican
morons forcing us to change just so the HDTV companies can rob people
charging them ten or more times the price of a regular tv and giving
them a lousy picture. Just the same story as always these days, pay
more, and get less..... I wonder how much money the republicans are
getting to shove this HDTV **** on us?


Sorry, it was the Democrat morons. The whole enchilada was approved by the
FCC in December 1966.

When the FCC is run by Republicans, they tend to let the market sort things
out, rather than edict and fiat from Washington.

On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 05:28:56 -0400, "Freckles"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
I heard that in another year or so we will all be forced to either buy
a HDTV or buy a converter. Having all standard tv sets, and I am
neither able to afford a HDTV, nor am I impressed by their picture, I
am not at all happy about this. I live in the country where the only
means to get tv channels is to either spend half my paycheck on
satellite, or use an antenna on the roof. I chose the antenna, and
most of the time I get fairly good reception on a few local channels.

I suppose I will have no choice but to buy a convertor, but I surely
will make a big fuss about it with whatever governmental agency is
behind this conspiracy to promote the sales of HDTVs and the crappy
broken up and spotty pictures they produce. I sure hope that the
convertor will produce a better picture on a standard tv than that on
the actual hdtvs.

Anyhow, my question is whether I will also have to buy a new rooftop
antenna. My present antenna broke during a windstorm and I
temporarily fixed it with some tubing and ducttape. I was planning to
buy a new antenna when a friend told me that he thinks I will need a
HDTV antenna too, but was not sure if an old antenna would also work.
Does anyone know? Will I be able to use the same rotor or does that
need to be changed too?

If anyone knows what government agency to file a complaint about this
HDTV conspiracy, please let me know. Tv channels have been the same
since the beginning of television, and now we got these republican
morons forcing us to change just so the HDTV companies can rob people
charging them ten or more times the price of a regular tv and giving
them a lousy picture. Just the same story as always these days, pay
more, and get less..... I wonder how much money the republicans are
getting to shove this HDTV **** on us?

James

Unless the program you are viewing on a HDTV is broadcast in HD, your
picture will not be very good. If fact it probably wont be as good as the
ones you receive on a regular TV set. However, if it is a HD program the
picture will be extremely clear and beautiful when viewed on A HDTV, if not
something is very wrong.



They have a big screen HDTV at a local fast food restaurant. It's
always tuned to CNN News. (I guess that helps a person digest their
food). Anyhow, I cant get CNN news on my antenna, so I assume the
restaurant is connected to cable tv. Wouldn't cable tv be sending in
HDTV format? All I know is that the picture seems to have sparklers
as I'd descibe them. Sort of like the 4th of july sparklers. Small
flashes of light that are very irritating. Another thing, the faces
are off color, appearing to have like shades of blue and green for
shadows. The faces look real fake, more like a drawn cartoon than an
actual person. The most annoying thing is that the picture often
seems to get stuck for a second or so, kind of like watching a
streaming video on the computer (using a 56k modem) and the video is
not downloading fast enough. I sometimes get a little "snow" on my
standard tv, but I can live with that much better than flashes of
light, fake looking people, and picture delays.

I also saw a demo HDTV at a department store that had the picture in
blocks. It looked like someone took a 200X200 pixel photo on a
computer and blew it up to 1200X1200. It was all large blocks of of
broken up picture that seemed like it could not keep up with the speed
of the change in the pciture. My guess would be that this set was
defective, but not the one at the restaurrant. How the store expects
to sell hdtvs using that POS for a demo is beyond me.

first the stupidly mandated conversion is to digital tv not high def.
the content will be whatever the provider sends, and there are 25
standards varying from awesome to junk.

buy the best boom antenna you can afford severe fringe one to minimize
poor operation the sparles are followed by blank screen.

call your coongressmen today and complain before service is cut off.,
the whole thing was about selling the analog bandwidth for profit

On Aug 20, 7:38 am, "HeyBub" wrote:
wrote:

it was the Democrat morons. The whole enchilada was approved by the
FCC in December 1966.

When the FCC is run by Republicans, they tend to let the market sort things
out, rather than edict and fiat from Washington.



Yeah, it amazes me how somebody so ignorant of everything about HDTV
immediately tries to blame this on Republicans. The move to digital
broadcasting was begun years ago, was fully vetted before many
Congresses and the actual standards we're using today were put in
place in 1995, when Clinton was in office.

To address the issues raised:

"I heard that in another year or so we will all be forced to either
buy
a HDTV or buy a converter. "

The deadline for turn off of over the air NTSC broadcasting is now set
for 2/09. It's been pushed out before and could be pushed out again.



" Having all standard tv sets, and I am
neither able to afford a HDTV, nor am I impressed by their picture, I
am not at all happy about this. I live in the country where the only
means to get tv channels is to either spend half my paycheck on
satellite, or use an antenna on the roof. I chose the antenna, and
most of the time I get fairly good reception on a few local channels.
"

You don't need an HDTV. All you need is an ATSC digital tuner which
will deliver a signal compatible with your existing TV. The govt has
approved a plan to give consumers two $40 coupons that can be used
toward the purchase of two converter boxes. These tuners are already
available for under $100, and will likely be $50-75 by the time you
need them.



"I suppose I will have no choice but to buy a convertor, but I surely
will make a big fuss about it with whatever governmental agency is
behind this conspiracy to promote the sales of HDTVs and the crappy
broken up and spotty pictures they produce. I sure hope that the
convertor will produce a better picture on a standard tv than that on
the actual hdtvs. "

So, you expect your current TV, which displays at NTSC resolution,
which is a max of 480 lines, to display a better picture than a new
HDTV set that displays at 1080 lines? I doubt you have even seen an
HDTV set, with a true HDTV source or you wouldn't think it looks like
crap. There are tens of millions of then out there and the look
great,




"Anyhow, my question is whether I will also have to buy a new rooftop
antenna. "

Probably not. If you have a decent VHF/UHF antenna, it should work
fine. Just about all digital is now on UHF, so that is the most
important part.




" My present antenna broke during a windstorm and I
temporarily fixed it with some tubing and ducttape. I was planning
to
buy a new antenna when a friend told me that he thinks I will need a
HDTV antenna too, but was not sure if an old antenna would also work.
Does anyone know? Will I be able to use the same rotor or does that
need to be changed too?"

Rotor has nothing to do with ATSC or NTSC, it just points the
antenna. Check out antennaweb.org, where you can put in your zipcode
and find out where the transmitters are located.


"If anyone knows what government agency to file a complaint about
this
HDTV conspiracy, please let me know. Tv channels have been the same
since the beginning of television, and now we got these republican
morons forcing us to change just so the HDTV companies can rob people
charging them ten or more times the price of a regular tv and giving
them a lousy picture. Just the same story as always these days, pay
more, and get less..... I wonder how much money the republicans are
getting to shove this HDTV **** on us? "


If you want to bitch, I suggest calling your Congressman and
Senators. But only if their Democrats. LOL

wrote:
first the stupidly mandated conversion is to digital tv not high def.
the content will be whatever the provider sends, and there are 25
standards varying from awesome to junk.

The marketing folks conveniently seem to forget that part with their HD
touts.


buy the best boom antenna you can afford severe fringe one to minimize
poor operation the sparles are followed by blank screen.

call your coongressmen today and complain before service is cut off.,
the whole thing was about selling the analog bandwidth for profit



The government always proclaim the fees they get from sprectrum
lotteries are profits. But isn't the "profit" just another hidden tax?
Lets say company "B" wins the spectrum lottery for the 700 MHz band and
they pay lets say $3 Billion for it. Won't the winners of the lottery
need to charge their users extra to recover the $3 Billion?

wrote:


If anyone knows what government agency to file a complaint about this
HDTV conspiracy, please let me know. Tv channels have been the same
since the beginning of television, and now we got these republican
morons forcing us to change just so the HDTV companies can rob people
charging them ten or more times the price of a regular tv and giving
them a lousy picture. Just the same story as always these days, pay
more, and get less..... I wonder how much money the republicans are
getting to shove this HDTV **** on us?

James

It is a little late to complain now. DTV was put into place during the
mid 90's (the clinton years).

On Aug 20, 7:50 am, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 05:28:56 -0400, "Freckles"





wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
I heard that in another year or so we will all be forced to either buy
a HDTV or buy a converter. Having all standard tv sets, and I am
neither able to afford a HDTV, nor am I impressed by their picture, I
am not at all happy about this. I live in the country where the only
means to get tv channels is to either spend half my paycheck on
satellite, or use an antenna on the roof. I chose the antenna, and
most of the time I get fairly good reception on a few local channels.

I suppose I will have no choice but to buy a convertor, but I surely
will make a big fuss about it with whatever governmental agency is
behind this conspiracy to promote the sales of HDTVs and the crappy
broken up and spotty pictures they produce. I sure hope that the
convertor will produce a better picture on a standard tv than that on
the actual hdtvs.

Anyhow, my question is whether I will also have to buy a new rooftop
antenna. My present antenna broke during a windstorm and I
temporarily fixed it with some tubing and ducttape. I was planning to
buy a new antenna when a friend told me that he thinks I will need a
HDTV antenna too, but was not sure if an old antenna would also work.
Does anyone know? Will I be able to use the same rotor or does that
need to be changed too?

If anyone knows what government agency to file a complaint about this
HDTV conspiracy, please let me know. Tv channels have been the same
since the beginning of television, and now we got these republican
morons forcing us to change just so the HDTV companies can rob people
charging them ten or more times the price of a regular tv and giving
them a lousy picture. Just the same story as always these days, pay
more, and get less..... I wonder how much money the republicans are
getting to shove this HDTV **** on us?

James

Unless the program you are viewing on a HDTV is broadcast in HD, your
picture will not be very good. If fact it probably wont be as good as the
ones you receive on a regular TV set. However, if it is a HD program the
picture will be extremely clear and beautiful when viewed on A HDTV, if not
something is very wrong.

They have a big screen HDTV at a local fast food restaurant. It's
always tuned to CNN News. (I guess that helps a person digest their
food). Anyhow, I cant get CNN news on my antenna, so I assume the
restaurant is connected to cable tv. Wouldn't cable tv be sending in
HDTV format? All I know is that the picture seems to have sparklers
as I'd descibe them. Sort of like the 4th of july sparklers. Small
flashes of light that are very irritating. Another thing, the faces
are off color, appearing to have like shades of blue and green for
shadows. The faces look real fake, more like a drawn cartoon than an
actual person. The most annoying thing is that the picture often
seems to get stuck for a second or so, kind of like watching a
streaming video on the computer (using a 56k modem) and the video is
not downloading fast enough. I sometimes get a little "snow" on my
standard tv, but I can live with that much better than flashes of
light, fake looking people, and picture delays.

I also saw a demo HDTV at a department store that had the picture in
blocks. It looked like someone took a 200X200 pixel photo on a
computer and blew it up to 1200X1200. It was all large blocks of of
broken up picture that seemed like it could not keep up with the speed
of the change in the pciture. My guess would be that this set was
defective, but not the one at the restaurrant. How the store expects
to sell hdtvs using that POS for a demo is beyond me.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes the people on wide screen tv's "lose their necks" and look
deformed and abnormal. It's just something we have to live with I
guess. I have not seen the sparlky problem, but I cant stand watching
tv at anybodys house who has a widescreen because the people frankly
look like "midgets" (if you know what I mean, not to be derrogatory to
midgets). My area is the last in the country where any of the local
stations are broadcasting HD, so I'll wait and just use my 2 free
government-provided converter boxes.

On Aug 20, 4:28 am, "Freckles" wrote:
wrote in message

...





I heard that in another year or so we will all be forced to either buy
a HDTV or buy a converter. Having all standard tv sets, and I am
neither able to afford a HDTV, nor am I impressed by their picture, I
am not at all happy about this. I live in the country where the only
means to get tv channels is to either spend half my paycheck on
satellite, or use an antenna on the roof. I chose the antenna, and
most of the time I get fairly good reception on a few local channels.

I suppose I will have no choice but to buy a convertor, but I surely
will make a big fuss about it with whatever governmental agency is
behind this conspiracy to promote the sales of HDTVs and the crappy
broken up and spotty pictures they produce. I sure hope that the
convertor will produce a better picture on a standard tv than that on
the actual hdtvs.

Anyhow, my question is whether I will also have to buy a new rooftop
antenna. My present antenna broke during a windstorm and I
temporarily fixed it with some tubing and ducttape. I was planning to
buy a new antenna when a friend told me that he thinks I will need a
HDTV antenna too, but was not sure if an old antenna would also work.
Does anyone know? Will I be able to use the same rotor or does that
need to be changed too?

If anyone knows what government agency to file a complaint about this
HDTV conspiracy, please let me know. Tv channels have been the same
since the beginning of television, and now we got these republican
morons forcing us to change just so the HDTV companies can rob people
charging them ten or more times the price of a regular tv and giving
them a lousy picture. Just the same story as always these days, pay
more, and get less..... I wonder how much money the republicans are
getting to shove this HDTV **** on us?

James

Unless the program you are viewing on a HDTV is broadcast in HD, your
picture will not be very good. If fact it probably wont be as good as the
ones you receive on a regular TV set.

And on what basis are you making this claim that a std def picture on
ATSC isn't going to look as good as it would on NTSC? The picture
should be better. No more ghosting, no more snow. Now, I'm sure
there are pathological cases, where the ATSC transmitter is located
somewhere different from the NTSC one, blocked, greater distance,
etc. But that is the exception, not typical.



However, if it is a HD program the
picture will be extremely clear and beautiful when viewed on A HDTV, if not
something is very wrong.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Please! Please!! Please!!! Please!!!! Please!!!!!

The bushels of rationalizations that they offer be damned.

The primary objectives of the "Digital tv changeover" are -only- as
follows:

a.) To assuage the interests of the "Entertainment Industry" (which
donates copiously to -both- parties). "Bought And Paid-For!"
b.) To raise cash for the Fedral Gummint (sale of bandwidth).

'Tis an exercise in what they can get away with in terms of shoving
insane stuff down the public throat.

What will they do with the cash from sale of bandwidth? Consider the
case of the poison Chinee food. Congress appropriated additional
funding for the FDA so they could increase inspections, turn back
pizen. What does the FDA do in their infinite wisdom? They increase
salaries of existing employees and fail to hire new inspectors.

(Please to) KNOW When And How Your Fedral Gummint Is Abusing The Public! :-)

AQ


On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 03:18:40 -0500, wrote:

I heard that in another year or so we will all be forced to either buy
a HDTV or buy a converter. Having all standard tv sets, and I am
neither able to afford a HDTV, nor am I impressed by their picture, I
am not at all happy about this. I live in the country where the only
means to get tv channels is to either spend half my paycheck on
satellite, or use an antenna on the roof. I chose the antenna, and
most of the time I get fairly good reception on a few local channels.

I suppose I will have no choice but to buy a convertor, but I surely
will make a big fuss about it with whatever governmental agency is
behind this conspiracy to promote the sales of HDTVs and the crappy
broken up and spotty pictures they produce. I sure hope that the
convertor will produce a better picture on a standard tv than that on
the actual hdtvs.

Anyhow, my question is whether I will also have to buy a new rooftop
antenna. My present antenna broke during a windstorm and I
temporarily fixed it with some tubing and ducttape. I was planning to
buy a new antenna when a friend told me that he thinks I will need a
HDTV antenna too, but was not sure if an old antenna would also work.
Does anyone know? Will I be able to use the same rotor or does that
need to be changed too?

If anyone knows what government agency to file a complaint about this
HDTV conspiracy, please let me know. Tv channels have been the same
since the beginning of television, and now we got these republican
morons forcing us to change just so the HDTV companies can rob people
charging them ten or more times the price of a regular tv and giving
them a lousy picture. Just the same story as always these days, pay
more, and get less..... I wonder how much money the republicans are
getting to shove this HDTV **** on us?

James

"The monkey and the baboon was playing 7-up.
The monkey won the money but he scared to pick it up.
The monkey stumbled, mama.
The baboon fell.
The monkey grab the money and he run like hell!"
- from "Dirty Motherfuyer", Roosevelt Sykes, around 1935

wrote:
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 05:28:56 -0400, "Freckles"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..

I heard that in another year or so we will all be forced to either buy
a HDTV or buy a converter. Having all standard tv sets, and I am
neither able to afford a HDTV, nor am I impressed by their picture, I
am not at all happy about this. I live in the country where the only
means to get tv channels is to either spend half my paycheck on
satellite, or use an antenna on the roof. I chose the antenna, and
most of the time I get fairly good reception on a few local channels.

I suppose I will have no choice but to buy a convertor, but I surely
will make a big fuss about it with whatever governmental agency is
behind this conspiracy to promote the sales of HDTVs and the crappy
broken up and spotty pictures they produce. I sure hope that the
convertor will produce a better picture on a standard tv than that on
the actual hdtvs.

Anyhow, my question is whether I will also have to buy a new rooftop
antenna. My present antenna broke during a windstorm and I
temporarily fixed it with some tubing and ducttape. I was planning to
buy a new antenna when a friend told me that he thinks I will need a
HDTV antenna too, but was not sure if an old antenna would also work.
Does anyone know? Will I be able to use the same rotor or does that
need to be changed too?

If anyone knows what government agency to file a complaint about this
HDTV conspiracy, please let me know. Tv channels have been the same
since the beginning of television, and now we got these republican
morons forcing us to change just so the HDTV companies can rob people
charging them ten or more times the price of a regular tv and giving
them a lousy picture. Just the same story as always these days, pay
more, and get less..... I wonder how much money the republicans are
getting to shove this HDTV **** on us?

James

Unless the program you are viewing on a HDTV is broadcast in HD, your
picture will not be very good. If fact it probably wont be as good as the
ones you receive on a regular TV set. However, if it is a HD program the
picture will be extremely clear and beautiful when viewed on A HDTV, if not
something is very wrong.




They have a big screen HDTV at a local fast food restaurant. It's
always tuned to CNN News. (I guess that helps a person digest their
food). Anyhow, I cant get CNN news on my antenna, so I assume the
restaurant is connected to cable tv. Wouldn't cable tv be sending in
HDTV format? All I know is that the picture seems to have sparklers
as I'd descibe them. Sort of like the 4th of july sparklers. Small
flashes of light that are very irritating. Another thing, the faces
are off color, appearing to have like shades of blue and green for
shadows. The faces look real fake, more like a drawn cartoon than an
actual person. The most annoying thing is that the picture often
seems to get stuck for a second or so, kind of like watching a
streaming video on the computer (using a 56k modem) and the video is
not downloading fast enough. I sometimes get a little "snow" on my
standard tv, but I can live with that much better than flashes of
light, fake looking people, and picture delays.

I also saw a demo HDTV at a department store that had the picture in
blocks. It looked like someone took a 200X200 pixel photo on a
computer and blew it up to 1200X1200. It was all large blocks of of
broken up picture that seemed like it could not keep up with the speed
of the change in the pciture. My guess would be that this set was
defective, but not the one at the restaurrant. How the store expects
to sell hdtvs using that POS for a demo is beyond me.
Hi,
HDTV sets come in many different shape and forms, Plasma, LCD,
projection(LCD, DLP) and different quality. It's not a matter of only
watching off the air program(some HD, some standard old format but more
and more HD now). Also when you play DVD material on HDTV set you'll
notice huge difference. And you can add good surround sound system to
create a home theater. Good picture is only half of it unless you
complement it with a good sound system.

HeyBub wrote:

wrote:

If anyone knows what government agency to file a complaint about this
HDTV conspiracy, please let me know. Tv channels have been the same
since the beginning of television, and now we got these republican
morons forcing us to change just so the HDTV companies can rob people
charging them ten or more times the price of a regular tv and giving
them a lousy picture. Just the same story as always these days, pay
more, and get less..... I wonder how much money the republicans are
getting to shove this HDTV **** on us?



Sorry, it was the Democrat morons. The whole enchilada was approved by the
FCC in December 1966.

When the FCC is run by Republicans, they tend to let the market sort things
out, rather than edict and fiat from Washington.


Hi,
Technology has to move on. NTSC was lame duck even on it' own time.
PAL was better system. Now digital rules everything. Look at how much
energy old CRT TV set uses vs today's new bigger TV sets.

In article . com,
RickH wrote:

On Aug 20, 7:50 am, wrote:
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 05:28:56 -0400, "Freckles"





wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
I heard that in another year or so we will all be forced to either buy
a HDTV or buy a converter. Having all standard tv sets, and I am
neither able to afford a HDTV, nor am I impressed by their picture, I
am not at all happy about this. I live in the country where the only
means to get tv channels is to either spend half my paycheck on
satellite, or use an antenna on the roof. I chose the antenna, and
most of the time I get fairly good reception on a few local channels.

I suppose I will have no choice but to buy a convertor, but I surely
will make a big fuss about it with whatever governmental agency is
behind this conspiracy to promote the sales of HDTVs and the crappy
broken up and spotty pictures they produce. I sure hope that the
convertor will produce a better picture on a standard tv than that on
the actual hdtvs.

Anyhow, my question is whether I will also have to buy a new rooftop
antenna. My present antenna broke during a windstorm and I
temporarily fixed it with some tubing and ducttape. I was planning to
buy a new antenna when a friend told me that he thinks I will need a
HDTV antenna too, but was not sure if an old antenna would also work.
Does anyone know? Will I be able to use the same rotor or does that
need to be changed too?

If anyone knows what government agency to file a complaint about this
HDTV conspiracy, please let me know. Tv channels have been the same
since the beginning of television, and now we got these republican
morons forcing us to change just so the HDTV companies can rob people
charging them ten or more times the price of a regular tv and giving
them a lousy picture. Just the same story as always these days, pay
more, and get less..... I wonder how much money the republicans are
getting to shove this HDTV **** on us?

James

Unless the program you are viewing on a HDTV is broadcast in HD, your
picture will not be very good. If fact it probably wont be as good as the
ones you receive on a regular TV set. However, if it is a HD program the
picture will be extremely clear and beautiful when viewed on A HDTV, if not
something is very wrong.

They have a big screen HDTV at a local fast food restaurant. It's
always tuned to CNN News. (I guess that helps a person digest their
food). Anyhow, I cant get CNN news on my antenna, so I assume the
restaurant is connected to cable tv. Wouldn't cable tv be sending in
HDTV format? All I know is that the picture seems to have sparklers
as I'd descibe them. Sort of like the 4th of july sparklers. Small
flashes of light that are very irritating. Another thing, the faces
are off color, appearing to have like shades of blue and green for
shadows. The faces look real fake, more like a drawn cartoon than an
actual person. The most annoying thing is that the picture often
seems to get stuck for a second or so, kind of like watching a
streaming video on the computer (using a 56k modem) and the video is
not downloading fast enough. I sometimes get a little "snow" on my
standard tv, but I can live with that much better than flashes of
light, fake looking people, and picture delays.

I also saw a demo HDTV at a department store that had the picture in
blocks. It looked like someone took a 200X200 pixel photo on a
computer and blew it up to 1200X1200. It was all large blocks of of
broken up picture that seemed like it could not keep up with the speed
of the change in the pciture. My guess would be that this set was
defective, but not the one at the restaurrant. How the store expects
to sell hdtvs using that POS for a demo is beyond me.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes the people on wide screen tv's "lose their necks" and look
deformed and abnormal. It's just something we have to live with I
guess. I have not seen the sparlky problem, but I cant stand watching
tv at anybodys house who has a widescreen because the people frankly
look like "midgets" (if you know what I mean, not to be derrogatory to
midgets). My area is the last in the country where any of the local
stations are broadcasting HD, so I'll wait and just use my 2 free
government-provided converter boxes.

That particular phenomenon has nothing to do with digital *or* hdtv.
That's called "aspect ratio" and it's something that the television user
can (and should) adjust to match the source material. DAGS.

In article QVhyi.73809$fJ5.49034@pd7urf1no,
Tony Hwang wrote:

Good picture is only half of it unless you
complement it with a good sound system.

So is good picture all of it if you complement it with a good sound
system?

Smitty Two wrote in
news


That particular phenomenon has nothing to do with digital *or* hdtv.
That's called "aspect ratio" and it's something that the television
user can (and should) adjust to match the source material. DAGS.


Aspect ratio should be automatic.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

wrote in
ps.com:

On Aug 20, 4:28 am, "Freckles" wrote:
wrote in message

...





I heard that in another year or so we will all be forced to either
buy
a HDTV or buy a converter. Having all standard tv sets, and I am
neither able to afford a HDTV, nor am I impressed by their picture,
I am not at all happy about this. I live in the country where the
only means to get tv channels is to either spend half my paycheck
on satellite, or use an antenna on the roof. I chose the antenna,
and most of the time I get fairly good reception on a few local
channels.

I suppose I will have no choice but to buy a convertor, but I
surely will make a big fuss about it with whatever governmental
agency is behind this conspiracy to promote the sales of HDTVs and
the crappy broken up and spotty pictures they produce. I sure hope
that the convertor will produce a better picture on a standard tv
than that on the actual hdtvs.

Anyhow, my question is whether I will also have to buy a new
rooftop antenna. My present antenna broke during a windstorm and I
temporarily fixed it with some tubing and ducttape. I was planning
to buy a new antenna when a friend told me that he thinks I will
need a HDTV antenna too, but was not sure if an old antenna would
also work. Does anyone know? Will I be able to use the same rotor
or does that need to be changed too?

If anyone knows what government agency to file a complaint about
this HDTV conspiracy, please let me know. Tv channels have been
the same since the beginning of television, and now we got these
republican morons forcing us to change just so the HDTV companies
can rob people charging them ten or more times the price of a
regular tv and giving them a lousy picture. Just the same story as
always these days, pay more, and get less..... I wonder how much
money the republicans are getting to shove this HDTV **** on us?

James

Unless the program you are viewing on a HDTV is broadcast in HD, your
picture will not be very good. If fact it probably wont be as good as
the ones you receive on a regular TV set.

And on what basis are you making this claim that a std def picture on
ATSC isn't going to look as good as it would on NTSC? The picture
should be better. No more ghosting, no more snow.


also,no gradual degradation of picture;DTV either works great,or
freezes/pixellates and drops out.

Analog NTSC TV can get snowy,and/or ghost,but still be watchable.


--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

wrote in message
ps.com...
On Aug 20, 4:28 am, "Freckles" wrote:
wrote in message

...





I heard that in another year or so we will all be forced to either buy
a HDTV or buy a converter. Having all standard tv sets, and I am
neither able to afford a HDTV, nor am I impressed by their picture, I
am not at all happy about this. I live in the country where the only
means to get tv channels is to either spend half my paycheck on
satellite, or use an antenna on the roof. I chose the antenna, and
most of the time I get fairly good reception on a few local channels.

I suppose I will have no choice but to buy a convertor, but I surely
will make a big fuss about it with whatever governmental agency is
behind this conspiracy to promote the sales of HDTVs and the crappy
broken up and spotty pictures they produce. I sure hope that the
convertor will produce a better picture on a standard tv than that on
the actual hdtvs.

Anyhow, my question is whether I will also have to buy a new rooftop
antenna. My present antenna broke during a windstorm and I
temporarily fixed it with some tubing and ducttape. I was planning to
buy a new antenna when a friend told me that he thinks I will need a
HDTV antenna too, but was not sure if an old antenna would also work.
Does anyone know? Will I be able to use the same rotor or does that
need to be changed too?

If anyone knows what government agency to file a complaint about this
HDTV conspiracy, please let me know. Tv channels have been the same
since the beginning of television, and now we got these republican
morons forcing us to change just so the HDTV companies can rob people
charging them ten or more times the price of a regular tv and giving
them a lousy picture. Just the same story as always these days, pay
more, and get less..... I wonder how much money the republicans are
getting to shove this HDTV **** on us?

James

Unless the program you are viewing on a HDTV is broadcast in HD, your
picture will not be very good. If fact it probably wont be as good as the
ones you receive on a regular TV set.

And on what basis are you making this claim that a std def picture on
ATSC isn't going to look as good as it would on NTSC? The picture
should be better. No more ghosting, no more snow. Now, I'm sure
there are pathological cases, where the ATSC transmitter is located
somewhere different from the NTSC one, blocked, greater distance,
etc. But that is the exception, not typical.

From personal experience and the experiences of many family members and
friends.

However, if it is a HD program the
picture will be extremely clear and beautiful when viewed on A HDTV, if
not
something is very wrong.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Jim Yanik wrote:
Smitty Two wrote in
news

That particular phenomenon has nothing to do with digital *or* hdtv.
That's called "aspect ratio" and it's something that the television
user can (and should) adjust to match the source material. DAGS.


Aspect ratio should be automatic.

DTVs seem to have a feature which you can toggle on to fill the whole
screen. If you happen to be watching 4:5 programming it stretches
everything out. It drives me nuts but when I mentioned it out to a few
people they couldn't get it even when I pointed out that round things
shouldn't look ovals and everyone shouldn't look like a sumo wrestler.

On Aug 20, 1:45 pm, "Freckles" wrote:
wrote in message

ps.com...





On Aug 20, 4:28 am, "Freckles" wrote:
wrote in message

. ..

I heard that in another year or so we will all be forced to either buy
a HDTV or buy a converter. Having all standard tv sets, and I am
neither able to afford a HDTV, nor am I impressed by their picture, I
am not at all happy about this. I live in the country where the only
means to get tv channels is to either spend half my paycheck on
satellite, or use an antenna on the roof. I chose the antenna, and
most of the time I get fairly good reception on a few local channels.

I suppose I will have no choice but to buy a convertor, but I surely
will make a big fuss about it with whatever governmental agency is
behind this conspiracy to promote the sales of HDTVs and the crappy
broken up and spotty pictures they produce. I sure hope that the
convertor will produce a better picture on a standard tv than that on
the actual hdtvs.

Anyhow, my question is whether I will also have to buy a new rooftop
antenna. My present antenna broke during a windstorm and I
temporarily fixed it with some tubing and ducttape. I was planning to
buy a new antenna when a friend told me that he thinks I will need a
HDTV antenna too, but was not sure if an old antenna would also work.
Does anyone know? Will I be able to use the same rotor or does that
need to be changed too?

If anyone knows what government agency to file a complaint about this
HDTV conspiracy, please let me know. Tv channels have been the same
since the beginning of television, and now we got these republican
morons forcing us to change just so the HDTV companies can rob people
charging them ten or more times the price of a regular tv and giving
them a lousy picture. Just the same story as always these days, pay
more, and get less..... I wonder how much money the republicans are
getting to shove this HDTV **** on us?

James

Unless the program you are viewing on a HDTV is broadcast in HD, your
picture will not be very good. If fact it probably wont be as good as the
ones you receive on a regular TV set.

And on what basis are you making this claim that a std def picture on
ATSC isn't going to look as good as it would on NTSC? The picture
should be better. No more ghosting, no more snow. Now, I'm sure
there are pathological cases, where the ATSC transmitter is located
somewhere different from the NTSC one, blocked, greater distance,
etc. But that is the exception, not typical.

From personal experience and the experiences of many family members and
friends.



Without clarification of what you were watching and on what eqpt, the
above statement is just about meaningless. For example,you could
take an ATSC signal that is being broadcast at low resolution, ie
programming that is not offered in HD and watch it on a 65" HDTV. Of
course that will look like crap, because you're blowing up a low
resolution signal. You could take the same programming in NTSC, put
it on the same big set and it will look like crap too. Put the same
thing on a small TV and it will look as good as NTSC. But some people
seeing it on the big TV attribute the problem to ATSC, or HDTV.







However, if it is a HD program the
picture will be extremely clear and beautiful when viewed on A HDTV, if
not
something is very wrong.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

wrote in message
oups.com...
On Aug 20, 1:45 pm, "Freckles" wrote:
wrote in message

ps.com...





On Aug 20, 4:28 am, "Freckles" wrote:
wrote in message

. ..

I heard that in another year or so we will all be forced to either
buy
a HDTV or buy a converter. Having all standard tv sets, and I am
neither able to afford a HDTV, nor am I impressed by their picture,
I
am not at all happy about this. I live in the country where the
only
means to get tv channels is to either spend half my paycheck on
satellite, or use an antenna on the roof. I chose the antenna, and
most of the time I get fairly good reception on a few local
channels.

I suppose I will have no choice but to buy a convertor, but I surely
will make a big fuss about it with whatever governmental agency is
behind this conspiracy to promote the sales of HDTVs and the crappy
broken up and spotty pictures they produce. I sure hope that the
convertor will produce a better picture on a standard tv than that
on
the actual hdtvs.

Anyhow, my question is whether I will also have to buy a new rooftop
antenna. My present antenna broke during a windstorm and I
temporarily fixed it with some tubing and ducttape. I was planning
to
buy a new antenna when a friend told me that he thinks I will need a
HDTV antenna too, but was not sure if an old antenna would also
work.
Does anyone know? Will I be able to use the same rotor or does that
need to be changed too?

If anyone knows what government agency to file a complaint about
this
HDTV conspiracy, please let me know. Tv channels have been the same
since the beginning of television, and now we got these republican
morons forcing us to change just so the HDTV companies can rob
people
charging them ten or more times the price of a regular tv and giving
them a lousy picture. Just the same story as always these days, pay
more, and get less..... I wonder how much money the republicans are
getting to shove this HDTV **** on us?

James

Unless the program you are viewing on a HDTV is broadcast in HD, your
picture will not be very good. If fact it probably wont be as good as
the
ones you receive on a regular TV set.

And on what basis are you making this claim that a std def picture on
ATSC isn't going to look as good as it would on NTSC? The picture
should be better. No more ghosting, no more snow. Now, I'm sure
there are pathological cases, where the ATSC transmitter is located
somewhere different from the NTSC one, blocked, greater distance,
etc. But that is the exception, not typical.

From personal experience and the experiences of many family members and
friends.



Without clarification of what you were watching and on what eqpt, the
above statement is just about meaningless. For example,you could
take an ATSC signal that is being broadcast at low resolution, ie
programming that is not offered in HD and watch it on a 65" HDTV. Of
course that will look like crap, because you're blowing up a low
resolution signal. You could take the same programming in NTSC, put
it on the same big set and it will look like crap too. Put the same
thing on a small TV and it will look as good as NTSC. But some people
seeing it on the big TV attribute the problem to ATSC, or HDTV.

What's so difficult to understand? When a program is broadcast in HD and
received on a HDTV the picture is fantastic, regardless of the TV size. If
the program is not HD and it is received on a HDTV, the picture quality is
not very good regardless of the screen size.

I spent many hours in a number of different stores looking at and finding
out about the different HDTVs because I'm in the market to buy one. NTSC and
ATSC are meaningless to me and I would bet to most other TV shoppers also.

I've been looking into HDTV's for a couple of years now, and the quality of
HDTVs keep going up and the prices keep going down. By February of 2009,
quality will most likely be even better and prices even lower.


However, if it is a HD program the
picture will be extremely clear and beautiful when viewed on A HDTV,
if
not
something is very wrong.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

wrote:

SNIP HAPPENS



You don't need an HDTV. All you need is an ATSC digital tuner which
will deliver a signal compatible with your existing TV. The govt has
approved a plan to give consumers two $40 coupons that can be used
toward the purchase of two converter boxes. These tuners are already
available for under $100, and will likely be $50-75 by the time you
need them.


Interesting. First I have heard of the coupon thing. Sure hope it
happens.
There are 8 NTSC TVs in this house, as well as 3 NTSC VCRs. All
are on a Comcast "Basic" cale, not HD cable.

I am *not* looking forward to what this "improvement" is going to cost me.

On Aug 20, 4:55 pm, jJim McLaughlin
wrote:
wrote:

SNIP HAPPENS



You don't need an HDTV. All you need is an ATSC digital tuner which
will deliver a signal compatible with your existing TV. The govt has
approved a plan to give consumers two $40 coupons that can be used
toward the purchase of two converter boxes. These tuners are already
available for under $100, and will likely be $50-75 by the time you
need them.

Interesting. First I have heard of the coupon thing. Sure hope it
happens.
There are 8 NTSC TVs in this house, as well as 3 NTSC VCRs. All
are on a Comcast "Basic" cale, not HD cable.

I am *not* looking forward to what this "improvement" is going to cost me.

If you have cable, the improvement will cost you zippo. The cable box
already supplies NTSC, S Video, Component, whatever you're using.
That isn't going to change. The only folks impacted are those that
receive NTSC over the air.

The coupon thing is a done deal. You can google or check the FCC.

On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 21:59:33 -0000, wrote:

On Aug 20, 4:55 pm, jJim McLaughlin
wrote:
wrote:

SNIP HAPPENS



You don't need an HDTV. All you need is an ATSC digital tuner which
will deliver a signal compatible with your existing TV. The govt has
approved a plan to give consumers two $40 coupons that can be used
toward the purchase of two converter boxes. These tuners are already
available for under $100, and will likely be $50-75 by the time you
need them.

Interesting. First I have heard of the coupon thing. Sure hope it
happens.
There are 8 NTSC TVs in this house, as well as 3 NTSC VCRs. All
are on a Comcast "Basic" cale, not HD cable.

I am *not* looking forward to what this "improvement" is going to cost me.

If you have cable, the improvement will cost you zippo. The cable box
already supplies NTSC, S Video, Component, whatever you're using.
That isn't going to change.

'Scuse me, but how in the hull do *you* know what Comcast, TW,
Charter, etc are going to do in the coming years? Some doubt they
know they-own-selves.

Several years ago I could get premium (HBO, etc) channels on my NTSC
tuners. Not no' mo': gotta have a (Charter) Digital-Garbage Box (and
pay rent on it).

Last I looked, there were incentives for cable vendors to further
convert to "digital". Not directly connected to the 2009 ATSC
changeover.

...

Puddin'

"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!"
-Friedrich Schiller

On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 03:18:40 -0500, wrote:

I suppose I will have no choice but to buy a convertor, but I surely
will make a big fuss about it with whatever governmental agency is
behind this conspiracy to promote the sales of HDTVs

The only argument in the government's favor is that HDTV transmissions
are digital and require only a narrow bandwidth. This frees up a lot
of very valuable bandwidth for other non-TV applications. Digital
signals of course allow a lot of extra services, interactive services,
etc. Offhand I can't think of any compelling ones yet that wil make
me want to buy a HDTV set .

wrote:
On Aug 20, 4:55 pm, jJim McLaughlin
wrote:

wrote:

SNIP HAPPENS




You don't need an HDTV. All you need is an ATSC digital tuner which
will deliver a signal compatible with your existing TV. The govt has
approved a plan to give consumers two $40 coupons that can be used
toward the purchase of two converter boxes. These tuners are already
available for under $100, and will likely be $50-75 by the time you
need them.

Interesting. First I have heard of the coupon thing. Sure hope it
happens.
There are 8 NTSC TVs in this house, as well as 3 NTSC VCRs. All
are on a Comcast "Basic" cale, not HD cable.

I am *not* looking forward to what this "improvement" is going to cost me.


If you have cable, the improvement will cost you zippo. The cable box
already supplies NTSC, S Video, Component, whatever you're using.
That isn't going to change. The only folks impacted are those that
receive NTSC over the air.

I did not know that.

Thanks for the good news.


The coupon thing is a done deal. You can google or check the FCC.


I'll look forward to seeing if there is a secondary market for the coupons.

On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 17:52:22 -0400, "Freckles"
wrote:

I've been looking into HDTV's for a couple of years now, and the quality of
HDTVs keep going up and the prices keep going down. By February of 2009,
quality will most likely be even better and prices even lower.

A smart approach. If I guess - my 50" Plasma is eighth generation
plasma panel. Ninth or tenth generation panels have to be out by now.

The early fear of screen "burn-in" is now dissipated (I call it
similar to a screen saver for pc monitors in the new panel...)

Buy the latest/current generation when you buy. Buying in a store can
be deceptive under various lighting conditions.

--
Oren

"The voices in my head may not be real, but they have some good ideas!"

On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 14:53:36 GMT, Tony Hwang wrote:


...

HDTV sets come in many different shape and forms, Plasma, LCD,
projection(LCD, DLP) and different quality. It's not a matter of only
watching off the air program(some HD, some standard old format but more
and more HD now). Also when you play DVD material on HDTV set you'll
notice huge difference. And you can add good surround sound system to
create a home theater. Good picture is only half of it unless you
complement it with a good sound system.

The entertainment industry in gen'l and tv in particular has gotten
so abusive of the viewing public that it is patently insane.

Screwy schedules, garbage-coverage, ram-it-down-your-throat IIGA's
(Idiot, Idiot Garbage Ads). There's no end to what the public
will accept.

400,000 spin doctors congregated at the bottom of the sea couldn't
completely separate fact from fiction from folderol, etc.

"The TV Industry Is Programming For An Audience Of Flogging Zombies!".

A few hundred more for this, a few hundred more for that,
pretty soon it's thousands (and they *love* it). Any price for
a Pretty, Pretty Picture.

It's gotten to be Cultural Horse****: they oughta be paying me
thousands to watch -any- of it.

AQ

On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 03:18:40 -0500, wrote:

I heard that in another year or so we will all be forced to either buy
a HDTV or buy a converter. Having all standard tv sets, and I am
neither able to afford a HDTV, nor am I impressed by their picture, I
am not at all happy about this. I live in the country where the only
means to get tv channels is to either spend half my paycheck on
satellite, or use an antenna on the roof. I chose the antenna, and
most of the time I get fairly good reception on a few local channels.

I suppose I will have no choice but to buy a convertor, but I surely
will make a big fuss about it with whatever governmental agency is
behind this conspiracy to promote the sales of HDTVs and the crappy
broken up and spotty pictures they produce. I sure hope that the
convertor will produce a better picture on a standard tv than that on
the actual hdtvs.

Anyhow, my question is whether I will also have to buy a new rooftop
antenna. My present antenna broke during a windstorm and I
temporarily fixed it with some tubing and ducttape. I was planning to
buy a new antenna when a friend told me that he thinks I will need a
HDTV antenna too, but was not sure if an old antenna would also work.
Does anyone know? Will I be able to use the same rotor or does that
need to be changed too?

If anyone knows what government agency to file a complaint about this
HDTV conspiracy, please let me know. Tv channels have been the same
since the beginning of television, and now we got these republican
morons forcing us to change just so the HDTV companies can rob people
charging them ten or more times the price of a regular tv and giving
them a lousy picture. Just the same story as always these days, pay
more, and get less..... I wonder how much money the republicans are
getting to shove this HDTV **** on us?

James

Nobody has related any real life experiences with watching DTV on a
regularTV so I will.

I live in a rural area where analog TV reception can at best be
classified as awful. Scratchy, staticy, ghosty, fluttery, you name it,
it was in the picture. But I put up with it. Until a few years ago
when I had had enough and I bought a converter box for my TV. Man!
let me tell you. It was like moving the studio into your living room.
It was a crystal clear perfect picture the likes of which I had never
seen before. Sure it had some problems with pixelation and an
occasion freeze, but it was a friggin perfect picture!

So stop complaining about your crappy picture and go out and buy a
converter box. Sure they'll be cheaper in a year when the government
starts handing out the rebates, but then you'll have missed out on
doing the one thing that can improve your picture the most for those
months you've waited.

Go to www.antennaweb.org and see if it says you can pick up any DTV
stations and then just go for it.

-dickm

On Aug 20, 5:19 pm, Puddin' Man wrote:
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 21:59:33 -0000, wrote:
On Aug 20, 4:55 pm, jJim McLaughlin
wrote:
wrote:

SNIP HAPPENS

You don't need an HDTV. All you need is an ATSC digital tuner which
will deliver a signal compatible with your existing TV. The govt has
approved a plan to give consumers two $40 coupons that can be used
toward the purchase of two converter boxes. These tuners are already
available for under $100, and will likely be $50-75 by the time you
need them.

Interesting. First I have heard of the coupon thing. Sure hope it
happens.
There are 8 NTSC TVs in this house, as well as 3 NTSC VCRs. All
are on a Comcast "Basic" cale, not HD cable.

I am *not* looking forward to what this "improvement" is going to cost me.

If you have cable, the improvement will cost you zippo. The cable box
already supplies NTSC, S Video, Component, whatever you're using.
That isn't going to change.

'Scuse me, but how in the hull do *you* know what Comcast, TW,
Charter, etc are going to do in the coming years? Some doubt they
know they-own-selves.

Look, first, it's not years away, ATSC is already up and running.
HDTV programming is available right now through OTA, cable, and Sat.
It coexists with std def right now. You can watch much of prime time
in HD or std right now via cable. All those cable companies now
deliver a signal that works with your NTSC TV. And the signal from
most cable companies is already digital to the set top box, regardless
of whether the output is NTSC or HD. In Feb 2009, the only thing
that happens is NTSC OTA gets turned off.

If you don't believe me, call your cable company and ask or do a bit
of research on the web.




Several years ago I could get premium (HBO, etc) channels on my NTSC
tuners. Not no' mo': gotta have a (Charter) Digital-Garbage Box (and
pay rent on it).

I assure you that you can get it right now. Just call up and pay for
it instead of stealing it.



Last I looked, there were incentives for cable vendors to further
convert to "digital". Not directly connected to the 2009 ATSC
changeover.

That's right, the incentives are to cram more channels down that
pipe. It's been going on, it works, so why should we expect it's
gonna disappear, just because broadcasters shutdown the NTSC
transmitters?




...

Puddin'

"Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens!"
-Friedrich Schiller- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"jJim McLaughlin" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:
On Aug 20, 4:55 pm, jJim McLaughlin
wrote:

(snip)
are on a Comcast "Basic" cale, not HD cable.

I am *not* looking forward to what this "improvement" is going to cost
me.


If you have cable, the improvement will cost you zippo. The cable box
already supplies NTSC, S Video, Component, whatever you're using.
That isn't going to change. The only folks impacted are those that
receive NTSC over the air.

I did not know that.

Thanks for the good news.

Uh, not entirely true- in some areas served by the biggies, and especially
tiny 'house' cable systems like some apartments use, if you only have basic
cable, no set-top box is involved. 1 cable, wall jack to 'cable ready' TV.
(the apartments I lived in until recently were like that, and the basic
cable my sister had at her house were like that.) Or are they going to start
converting the signal at the head end before they send it down the wire?

aem sends....

On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 23:16:46 -0000, wrote:

In Feb 2009, the only thing
that happens is NTSC OTA gets turned off.

No more black and white Roy Rogers and Dale Evans or Lassie? OTA? (g).


--
Oren

"The voices in my head may not be real, but they have some good ideas!"

"George" wrote in message
...
Jim Yanik wrote:
Smitty Two wrote in
news
That particular phenomenon has nothing to do with digital *or* hdtv.
That's called "aspect ratio" and it's something that the television
user can (and should) adjust to match the source material. DAGS.


Aspect ratio should be automatic.
DTVs seem to have a feature which you can toggle on to fill the whole
screen. If you happen to be watching 4:5 programming it stretches
everything out. It drives me nuts but when I mentioned it out to a few
people they couldn't get it even when I pointed out that round things
shouldn't look ovals and everyone shouldn't look like a sumo wrestler.

Chuckle. Same problem with wide PC monitors stuck on old PCs that don't
support that native resolution.

aem sends....

On Aug 20, 6:25 pm, "aemeijers" wrote:
"jJim McLaughlin" wrote in message

. ..



wrote:
On Aug 20, 4:55 pm, jJim McLaughlin
wrote:

(snip)
are on a Comcast "Basic" cale, not HD cable.

I am *not* looking forward to what this "improvement" is going to cost
me.

If you have cable, the improvement will cost you zippo. The cable box
already supplies NTSC, S Video, Component, whatever you're using.
That isn't going to change. The only folks impacted are those that
receive NTSC over the air.

I did not know that.

Thanks for the good news.

Uh, not entirely true- in some areas served by the biggies, and especially
tiny 'house' cable systems like some apartments use, if you only have basic
cable, no set-top box is involved. 1 cable, wall jack to 'cable ready' TV.
(the apartments I lived in until recently were like that, and the basic
cable my sister had at her house were like that.) Or are they going to start
converting the signal at the head end before they send it down the wire?


Well, let's see the cable company can either take the broadcast feed
that's provided in std def as well as hi def and continue to supply a
signal just like they do now that comes out of the cable box (or wire
if you have no cable box), or they could commit suicide and let most
of their customers go dark in Feb 2009. Which do you think their
gonna do?




aem sends....- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Aug 20, 5:19 pm, PaPaPeng wrote:
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 03:18:40 -0500, wrote:
I suppose I will have no choice but to buy a convertor, but I surely
will make a big fuss about it with whatever governmental agency is
behind this conspiracy to promote the sales of HDTVs

The only argument in the government's favor is that HDTV transmissions
are digital and require only a narrow bandwidth. This frees up a lot
of very valuable bandwidth for other non-TV applications. Digital
signals of course allow a lot of extra services, interactive services,
etc.

Wrong again Pa Pa. The move from NTSC to ATSC that you have your
shorts in a know about, has zippo to do with "interactive services"
And that's because last time I checked ATSC, just like NTSC is one
way, ie from the transmitter to your antenna. There is no channel in
the other direction to support interactive anything.


Offhand I can't think of any compelling ones yet that wil make
me want to buy a HDTV set .


And why am I not surprised? LOL

On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 23:45:26 -0000, wrote:

Wrong again Pa Pa. The move from NTSC to ATSC that you have your
shorts in a know about, has zippo to do with "interactive services"
And that's because last time I checked ATSC, just like NTSC is one
way, ie from the transmitter to your antenna. There is no channel in
the other direction to support interactive anything.


Point conceded. I haven't kept up with the technology news. I still
think interactive services can still be piggybacked in the cable
company feeds though. These services will be custom cable company
offerings, not broadcast company services. That said only likely
popular service may be videogames that involve multiple remote
players. I don't play videogames myself or shop online.

On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 21:59:33 -0000, wrote:

On Aug 20, 4:55 pm, jJim McLaughlin
wrote:
wrote:

SNIP HAPPENS



You don't need an HDTV. All you need is an ATSC digital tuner which
will deliver a signal compatible with your existing TV. The govt has
approved a plan to give consumers two $40 coupons that can be used
toward the purchase of two converter boxes. These tuners are already
available for under $100, and will likely be $50-75 by the time you
need them.

Interesting. First I have heard of the coupon thing. Sure hope it
happens.
There are 8 NTSC TVs in this house, as well as 3 NTSC VCRs. All
are on a Comcast "Basic" cale, not HD cable.

I am *not* looking forward to what this "improvement" is going to cost me.

If you have cable, the improvement will cost you zippo. The cable box
already supplies NTSC, S Video, Component, whatever you're using.
That isn't going to change. The only folks impacted are those that
receive NTSC over the air.

The coupon thing is a done deal. You can google or check the FCC.

WHAT cable box?

With basic cable, there is no cable box. The analog NTSC signal is fed
right into the TV's tuner.

Doug

In article . com, writes:

| You don't need an HDTV. All you need is an ATSC digital tuner which
| will deliver a signal compatible with your existing TV. The govt has
| approved a plan to give consumers two $40 coupons that can be used
| toward the purchase of two converter boxes. These tuners are already
| available for under $100, and will likely be $50-75 by the time you
| need them.

Do you know of any ATSC tuners (being under $100 would be a bonus) that
support NTSC recording devices (VCR, DVR, etc.) in the following sense?

-They include a timer with a reasonable number of programs.
-They include a stretch/fill/what-have-you mode to render pillar-boxed
4:3 material as full screen rather than letter-boxed.
-The timer allows selection of the stretch/fill/what-have-you mode on
a per-program basis.

Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com