looks like more stain over spray that wasn't cleaned up with the solvent
that caused this problem.


steve


"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 11:25:36 -0500, dpb wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:
...
My skepticism about the barbecue is that, as others have said, it's a
hell of an unlikely place to park a barbecue. Railing in the way, right
in front of the door.

To "park" it yes...to use it from in the kitchen w/o having to walk so
far; not such a stretch...

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squisher/IMG_6627.JPG

Look at the bottom piece of vinyl, between the door and railing. That
piece also seems discolored (hard to tell), so I would guess it is not
the grill if the bottom piece is damaged..


--
Oren

"My doctor says I have a malformed public-duty gland
and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therefore
excused from saving Universes."

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
how the HELL is a wire going to get hot enough to melt vinyl, but not burn
the wood between the wire and the vinyl???? Jeeeeze you people...

So... The sun beating down on the house at 100+ degrees, a hot wire in the
wall also pumping out say 150+ degrees... Vinyl will melt, but wood won't
char.

For the time and cost to open up the wall, I'd do it to be sure.

So,,, this aledged wire that is 150 degrees? Why is it hot and why hasn't
it tripped a breaker? And why hasn't the insulation melted off of it in the
exposed fixtures the OP has shown?

steve


"Noozer" wrote in message
news:tUuri.18686$rX4.4678@pd7urf2no...

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
how the HELL is a wire going to get hot enough to melt vinyl, but not
burn the wood between the wire and the vinyl???? Jeeeeze you people...

So... The sun beating down on the house at 100+ degrees, a hot wire in the
wall also pumping out say 150+ degrees... Vinyl will melt, but wood won't
char.

For the time and cost to open up the wall, I'd do it to be sure.

On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:54:37 -0500, "Steve Barker"
wrote:

looks like more stain over spray that wasn't cleaned up with the solvent
that caused this problem.


steve

And! The bottom vinyl piece did not disfigure like those above; maybe
caused by shade from the railing? I keep waiting for the OP to post.

Or the big area was wiped with the product that contradicts itself as
I read it. Use on any surface, but on the chart VINYL is not
mentioned.





"Oren" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 11:25:36 -0500, dpb wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:
...
My skepticism about the barbecue is that, as others have said, it's a
hell of an unlikely place to park a barbecue. Railing in the way, right
in front of the door.

To "park" it yes...to use it from in the kitchen w/o having to walk so
far; not such a stretch...

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squisher/IMG_6627.JPG

Look at the bottom piece of vinyl, between the door and railing. That
piece also seems discolored (hard to tell), so I would guess it is not
the grill if the bottom piece is damaged..
--
Oren

"I didn’t say it was your fault, I said I was blaming you."

Oren wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:00:11 -0500, dpb wrote:

Oren wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 17:39:32 -0500, dpb wrote:

Oren wrote:
...
The Lift-Off product he used to clean up the over spray lists "trade
secret ingredients", plus Acetone. Not sure what the secret stuff
would do :-))
...

Send in the black helicopters, no doubt...
Hidden away somewhere, no doubt. We will/may never know if this was
chemical damage; by not knowing what was used in clean up :-/
I already "know" -- no chance!

I hope the OP posts pics of the open wall.
Me, too...but I'm pretty sure I know what it's going to show.

Tell me first, I can't wait!!

Illegal electric box in the wall?

You can trust me I'm from the government :-)))

You obviously weren't following earlier...

I'm on the "outside heat source" camp. The inside of the wall is just
fine but since I can't see it close up to confirm what I'm almost 100%
sure the pictures show and the one picture of the sheathing isn't
conclusive, I've been forced to recommend to OP to at least cut back the
Tyvek to see and probably if it isn't clear to him for absolute certain
cut the entry to ensure it.

--

On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:48:25 -0500, "Steve Barker"
wrote:

how the HELL is a wire going to get hot enough to melt vinyl, but not burn
the wood between the wire and the vinyl???? Jeeeeze you people...

If the wire traverses through the wall? I'm asking you.




steve



"Chris Lewis" wrote in message
...

The melt pattern on the Tyvek makes me think hot wiring between the
two indoor outlets. But the vinyl damage seems a bit too widespread
for that.

Chris Lewis,



--
Oren

"I didn’t say it was your fault, I said I was blaming you."

On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:31:42 -0500, dpb wrote:

Oren wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:00:11 -0500, dpb wrote:

Oren wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 17:39:32 -0500, dpb wrote:

Oren wrote:
...
The Lift-Off product he used to clean up the over spray lists "trade
secret ingredients", plus Acetone. Not sure what the secret stuff
would do :-))
...

Send in the black helicopters, no doubt...
Hidden away somewhere, no doubt. We will/may never know if this was
chemical damage; by not knowing what was used in clean up :-/
I already "know" -- no chance!

I hope the OP posts pics of the open wall.
Me, too...but I'm pretty sure I know what it's going to show.

Tell me first, I can't wait!!

Illegal electric box in the wall?

You can trust me I'm from the government :-)))

You obviously weren't following earlier...

I'm on the "outside heat source" camp. The inside of the wall is just
fine but since I can't see it close up to confirm what I'm almost 100%
sure the pictures show and the one picture of the sheathing isn't
conclusive, I've been forced to recommend to OP to at least cut back the
Tyvek to see and probably if it isn't clear to him for absolute certain
cut the entry to ensure it.

I'm on the stain and clean up side.

I followed you. Check it/open the wall, before closing up with new
vinyl; the least one can do for a home. Know nothing is wrong and
finish the wall.

It is like pulling teeth with the OP; as he did not answer Edwin's
question!

I'm on your side. Did you bet in this thread?

Who is an inny or an outty? Pick your odds


--
Oren

"I didn’t say it was your fault, I said I was blaming you."

"Dan Espen" wrote in message

Yep, you keep saying that. But it looks exactly like what I would
expect a grill to do.


It does, but the railing seems to contradict that. If the grill was on one
side or the other, you'd expect the coloring to be more on that side. This
seems too centered over the rail. Then you have the bottom strip on the
right that seems discolored also.

The siding looks as though it is not just discolored, but also deformed.
That suggests heat more than solvent, but some solvents will soften and
allow a plastic to move. But the long time lag suggest it was not.

I think we need to see a piece of the siding in person.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

wrote in message
oups.com...
*extra bull**** snipped*

Doug and Pete.

Where does it end? This isnt a "who's dick is bigger" or "who's
eyesight is bettter" contest. We are trying to help the OP out on
what caused this discoloration. The OP said he was going to open up
the OSB, so lets just wait til he reports back.

Damn..

I'll second that Damn- this thread is just getting silly, and tedious. (And
is probably getting close to and AHR record for the year on posts.)

I still think it is chemical, but we won't know till OP opens up the wall,
takes some decent well-lit closeups, and posts them.

aem sends....

craig t wrote:I guaranty that this wasn't like this two weeks ago. I've
lived in the house 2 years. I have no little kids nor do my older
children hang around on the deck. I charcoal grill about 18 feet from
where the damage is.
----------------------------------- lmao.. i bet
somebody did it with some heat source and is not going to tell. lucas

http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm

On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:08:34 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:



http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squisher/IMG_6627.JPG

Look at the bottom piece of vinyl, between the door and railing. That
piece also seems discolored (hard to tell), so I would guess it is not
the grill if the bottom piece is damaged..

All the more reason that I think it's due to the overspray of the stain and
the solvent the OP used to wipe it up.

I'm not a chemist so don't know what solvent would do to vinyl. The
part I'm missing from your theory is how did the solvent reach the
Tyvek?

--Andy Asberry--
------Texas-----

NO, the bottom did not deform, because it WAS NOT cleaned with the solvent
the upper part was. duh.


steve


"Oren" wrote in message
news

And! The bottom vinyl piece did not disfigure like those above; maybe
caused by shade from the railing? I keep waiting for the OP to post.

Or the big area was wiped with the product that contradicts itself as
I read it. Use on any surface, but on the chart VINYL is not
mentioned.

there are little drain/vent slots all along the bottom edge of each piece of
plastic siding. the solvent would have splashed through those.


steve


"Andy Asberry" wrote in message
...
I'm not a chemist so don't know what solvent would do to vinyl. The
part I'm missing from your theory is how did the solvent reach the
Tyvek?

--Andy Asberry--
------Texas-----

For the same reason that chemicals applied to the outside of the siding
could sit there dormant, through rain and snow, and suddenly cause the vinyl
to warp.

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
So,,, this aledged wire that is 150 degrees? Why is it hot and why
hasn't it tripped a breaker? And why hasn't the insulation melted off of
it in the exposed fixtures the OP has shown?

steve


"Noozer" wrote in message
news:tUuri.18686$rX4.4678@pd7urf2no...

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
how the HELL is a wire going to get hot enough to melt vinyl, but not
burn the wood between the wire and the vinyl???? Jeeeeze you people...

So... The sun beating down on the house at 100+ degrees, a hot wire in
the wall also pumping out say 150+ degrees... Vinyl will melt, but wood
won't char.

For the time and cost to open up the wall, I'd do it to be sure.

In article ,
"CraigT" wrote:

Originaal post:

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squisher/IMG_6627.JPG


There are no heat sources behind that wall besides a toaster oven that sits
on the counter top and is seldom used. I would think any heat source from
inside would have caused some damage to the cabinet directly above. This is
new housing so the walls are insulated.

I haven't used any chemicals on the deck since the spring of '06.

Update:

I got the siding off (hey, it's been raining around here).

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squishe...denosiding.JPG

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Squishe...ecoversoff.JPG

All the electrical wiring and connections look sound and unblemished.

The switch for the outside light is a different circuit, but that outside
outlet is hooked to the kitchen circuit too.

Should I cut a 16" X 8" hole in the sheathing?

So I just googled "vinyl siding melted" (without quotes) and found that,
supposedly, vinyl siding melts at a pretty low temperature (140 F IIRC),
and sunlight reflecting off a window is sufficient to cause that kind of
damage. Apparently somewhat common.

On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 21:37:44 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:



So I just googled "vinyl siding melted" (without quotes) and found that,
supposedly, vinyl siding melts at a pretty low temperature (140 F IIRC),
and sunlight reflecting off a window is sufficient to cause that kind of
damage. Apparently somewhat common.

That would be quite low. Doesn't it get that hot some places, even in
the shade?

According to Steve Barker :
So,,, this aledged wire that is 150 degrees? Why is it hot and why hasn't
it tripped a breaker? And why hasn't the insulation melted off of it in the
exposed fixtures the OP has shown?

Cable defect or punctured with a screw which causes an intermittent
poor conductance short - not enough to blow the breaker, but enough
to heat things up. Could be load related. Could be something
really stupid like an "in-air" splice without proper connectors (cue
other thread). Could be that some dweeb wired it with lamp cord
because he ran out of proper stuff (cue a different thread).

If every "overheat" caused a wholesale fire, there'd be vastly more
houses going up in smoke.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

According to mm :

I have no experience with used tyvek, but nonetheless the damage to
the tyvek seems small, and I can't measure without the siding being
held next to the tyvek, but without that help, it looks close to the
spacing of the siding. Does tyvek never rip on its own accord after
two years, or would it look perfect.

The tyvek clearly shows that it has shrunk over a moderately
wide area but in an unevent way (pull creases), with
the melt/dissolve thru holes in two places. Meaning that
whatever it was, it was most focussed around the holes.

House wrap does deteriorate when exposed to UV (hence there's
a maximum recommended time you can leave Tyvek exposed before
covering it). I _think_ that if it shrank due to UV (or simple
age under the siding) it would look somewhat different. When I
had some vapor barrier let go due to UV exposure, it looked
like it had shattered (star pattern clean rips - UV exposure
about 15 years thru some windows) without signs of shrink
distortion - uniform shrink and embrittlement - snapped rather
than tore.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.