Lived here ~25 years, bought the house March 2000. Soon afterward met a
neighbor who shares a fence with me. We live on cross streets, and my
back fence is his left-side fence, partly. My entire back fence is the
back portion of his left fence.

He's had dogs ever since I've owned the house (i.e. at least 7 years).
If one of his dogs dies, he gets another. We introduced ourselves and in
an effort to seem quite neighborly he offered to lend me tools any time
I need them, should I need them. I've never taken him up on that... I
have a lot of tools and when I don't have some I need but not enough to
buy, I can generally get them at the very local tool lending library
(Berkeley, CA). Under the current circumstances, I would never dream of
asking to borrow a tool:

His dogs' barking has sometimes bothered me a lot but that's not the
subject of this post. The dogs crap a ton just over my back fence, which
is on the left side of the garage my neighbor built a few years ago. It
seems like he never cleans it up. AFAIK, he's NEVER cleaned any of it
up. If I'm near that back fence, I can smell the crap. In the summer
(i.e. now), the smell is so bad I can smell it most times any time I go
in the back yard. Glancing over the fence (wood fence) a couple of days
ago I saw (didn't count) must have been over 100 craps.

I've never mentioned this to anyone except a home-owning friend of mine,
who himself owns two dogs. His reaction is that it's terrible and
"unsanitary." Now, this friend of mine has a history of occasional
serious conflicts with his neighbors, serious enough that he sold his
house and moved into his other house (he buys fixer-uppers and now makes
a living renovating them). I always try to avoid confrontations with my
neighbors. I have enough to concern me without second guessing how I'm
getting along with them, worrying about what they think about me, etc.
I'm wondering if I should or can do a damn thing about the dog crap.
Yeah, I could politely talk to my neighbor, but I don't know what
footing I'm on here. Is this guy required to clean up after the dogs?

TIA for wisdom, etc.

Dan

"Dan_Musicant" wrote in message
...
Lived here ~25 years, bought the house March 2000. Soon afterward met a
neighbor who shares a fence with me. We live on cross streets, and my
back fence is his left-side fence, partly. My entire back fence is the
back portion of his left fence.

He's had dogs ever since I've owned the house (i.e. at least 7 years).
If one of his dogs dies, he gets another. We introduced ourselves and in
an effort to seem quite neighborly he offered to lend me tools any time
I need them, should I need them. I've never taken him up on that... I
have a lot of tools and when I don't have some I need but not enough to
buy, I can generally get them at the very local tool lending library
(Berkeley, CA). Under the current circumstances, I would never dream of
asking to borrow a tool:

His dogs' barking has sometimes bothered me a lot but that's not the
subject of this post. The dogs crap a ton just over my back fence, which
is on the left side of the garage my neighbor built a few years ago. It
seems like he never cleans it up. AFAIK, he's NEVER cleaned any of it
up. If I'm near that back fence, I can smell the crap. In the summer
(i.e. now), the smell is so bad I can smell it most times any time I go
in the back yard. Glancing over the fence (wood fence) a couple of days
ago I saw (didn't count) must have been over 100 craps.

I've never mentioned this to anyone except a home-owning friend of mine,
who himself owns two dogs. His reaction is that it's terrible and
"unsanitary." Now, this friend of mine has a history of occasional
serious conflicts with his neighbors, serious enough that he sold his
house and moved into his other house (he buys fixer-uppers and now makes
a living renovating them). I always try to avoid confrontations with my
neighbors. I have enough to concern me without second guessing how I'm
getting along with them, worrying about what they think about me, etc.
I'm wondering if I should or can do a damn thing about the dog crap.
Yeah, I could politely talk to my neighbor, but I don't know what
footing I'm on here. Is this guy required to clean up after the dogs?

TIA for wisdom, etc.

Dan

Many dog owners are worthless pigs who don't give a damn about their
neighbors, so there's little or no need to be concerned about politeness.
However, for your own reasons, you may choose to at least try to deal with
this without involving police, arson or gunfire.

Based on the distance of your house to the fence, can you realistically tell
him the stink is bothersome when your windows are open, and ask him to clean
it up? Give him 20 minutes or a day, and if it's not done, call the useless
animal control department and find out what's legal. Sometimes, they are
staffed by people who think dogs are cute, and you'll have a hard time
getting a straight answer because they're afraid you might infringe on the
dog's rights, especially in California. In that case, ask a cop.

Dan_Musicant wrote:

.....Yeah, I could politely talk to my neighbor, but I
don't know what footing I'm on here. Is this guy required to clean up
after the dogs?

There are two agencies that you could check with to get up to speed about
what footing you have: the local code enforcement dept. and the health dept.
A third agency would be you animal control, but some jurisdictions are
limited in this regard.

During my 17 years with our health district, we had to deal with this
several times. It does constitute a public health issue with flys and other
vermin. It also may violate public nuisance rules based on the smell. Ther
could also be animal neglect issues from his not cleaning up the feces.

Once you gather the information, you'll have a good idea whether or not you
have any backing. My guess is there will be solid teeth to bite back if you
need to deploy them :-)

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

Dan_Musicant wrote in message ...

His dogs' barking has sometimes bothered me a lot but that's not the
subject of this post. The dogs crap a ton just over my back fence,
which
is on the left side of the garage my neighbor built a few years ago.
It
seems like he never cleans it up. AFAIK, he's NEVER cleaned any of it
up. If I'm near that back fence, I can smell the crap. In the summer
(i.e. now), the smell is so bad I can smell it most times any time I
go
in the back yard. Glancing over the fence (wood fence) a couple of
days
ago I saw (didn't count) must have been over 100 craps.


I'm in CA, and here I have called, animal control for the same
problem. It's not just the stink, it causes a health problem with
flies and other disease carriers. If animal control doesn't do
anything call the health department and complain. Of course, Berkeley
is, and always has been a "different" sort of town, so you might be
sued or arrested for complaining. :-)

Cheri

Dan_Musicant wrote in message ...

His dogs' barking has sometimes bothered me a lot but that's not the
subject of this post. The dogs crap a ton just over my back fence,
which
is on the left side of the garage my neighbor built a few years ago.
It
seems like he never cleans it up. AFAIK, he's NEVER cleaned any of it
up. If I'm near that back fence, I can smell the crap. In the summer
(i.e. now), the smell is so bad I can smell it most times any time I
go
in the back yard. Glancing over the fence (wood fence) a couple of
days
ago I saw (didn't count) must have been over 100 craps.


Dan

Wanting to add that anyone who leaves that amount of dog poop lying
around, probably isn't going to rush out there and clean it up without
somebody "official" telling him to do it. JMO and good luck.

Cheri

"Dan_Musicant" wrote in message
...

He's had dogs ever since I've owned the house (i.e. at least 7 years).
If one of his dogs dies, he gets another. . . .
His dogs' barking has sometimes bothered me a lot but that's not the
subject of this post. The dogs crap a ton just over my back fence, which
is on the left side of the garage my neighbor built a few years ago. It
seems like he never cleans it up. AFAIK, he's NEVER cleaned any of it . .
..

I've never mentioned this to anyone except a home-owning friend . . .
I'm wondering if I should or can do a damn thing about the dog crap.
Yeah, I could politely talk to my neighbor, but I don't know what
footing I'm on here.

Unburied dog poop has presumably been accumulating
for the last seven years or more. What changed so that
only now do you want to do something about it ?

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

Don Phillipson wrote in message ...

Unburied dog poop has presumably been accumulating
for the last seven years or more. What changed so that
only now do you want to do something about it ?

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

Maybe the wind. ;-)

Cheri

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 17:02:08 -0400, "Don Phillipson"
wrote:

:Unburied dog poop has presumably been accumulating
:for the last seven years or more. What changed so that
nly now do you want to do something about it ?
:
:--
on Phillipson
:Carlsbad Springs
Ottawa, Canada)

Nothing has changed. It just happens to be summer and the problem is at
its worst. A bit like A/C. You think to yourself, I should have it when
there's a heatwave. What do you imagine has changed? Well, I only
sounded my dog-owning friend out about it fairly recently, and on top of
that, the weather is warmer and the smell particularly noticeably in my
back yard in general, instead of only when I'm within 10 feet or so of
the back fence (where I don't hang out nearly as much).

The flies noted by other posters is an interesting concern. I try to
always keep my doors closed because it seems that certain times of year
if I leave them open for even 1/2 a minute, I get flies in the house. It
hadn't occurred to me that the dog poop would be part of the reason for
this. I imagine it actually is.

Dan

Dan_Musicant wrote in message ...
On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 17:02:08 -0400, "Don Phillipson"
wrote:

:Unburied dog poop has presumably been accumulating
:for the last seven years or more. What changed so that
nly now do you want to do something about it ?
:
:--
on Phillipson
:Carlsbad Springs
Ottawa, Canada)

Nothing has changed. It just happens to be summer and the problem is
at
its worst. A bit like A/C. You think to yourself, I should have it
when
there's a heatwave. What do you imagine has changed? Well, I only
sounded my dog-owning friend out about it fairly recently, and on top
of
that, the weather is warmer and the smell particularly noticeably in
my
back yard in general, instead of only when I'm within 10 feet or so
of
the back fence (where I don't hang out nearly as much).

The flies noted by other posters is an interesting concern. I try to
always keep my doors closed because it seems that certain times of
year
if I leave them open for even 1/2 a minute, I get flies in the house.
It
hadn't occurred to me that the dog poop would be part of the reason
for
this. I imagine it actually is.

Dan

Trust me, it is. Once the poop gets cleaned up, you'll be amazed at
how the fly population decreases. I know, because I lived with the
same problem, but not for long. I don't understand people and "filth"
issues at times. I was at a store this morning, stepped in to use the
bathroom, and lo and behold, someone had changed a babies dirty diaper
on the changing table, and just left it there. Gack.

Cheri

Cheri

Cheri wrote:
Dan_Musicant wrote in message ...

if I leave them open for even 1/2 a minute, I get flies in the house.
It hadn't occurred to me that the dog poop would be part of the reason
for this. I imagine it actually is.

Dan

Trust me, it is. Once the poop gets cleaned up, you'll be amazed at
how the fly population decreases. I know, because I lived with the
same problem, but not for long. I don't understand people and "filth"
issues at times. I was at a store this morning, stepped in to use the
bathroom, and lo and behold, someone had changed a babies dirty diaper
on the changing table, and just left it there. Gack.

Cheri

LOL, It's amazing the places people will leave these damned things these
days. Did you know?:

Eighty percent of the diaperings in this nation are done with
disposables. That comes to 18 BILLION diapers a year. Each one has an
outer layer of waterproof polypropylene and an inner layer of fluff made
from wood pulp plus super-slurper sodium polyacrylate that can hold a
hundred times its weight in water.

Those 18 billion diapers add up to 82,000 tons of plastic a year and 1.3
million tons of wood pulp -- 250,000 trees. After a few hours of active
service these materials are trucked away, primarily to landfills, where
they sit, neatly wrapped packages of excrement, entombed undegraded for
several hundred years.

Abe wrote:
His dogs' barking has sometimes bothered me a lot but that's not the
subject of this post. The dogs crap a ton just over my back fence,
up. If I'm near that back fence, I can smell the crap. In the summer
(i.e. now), the smell is so bad I can smell it most times any time I go
in the back yard.
I'm wondering if I should or can do a damn thing about the dog crap.
Yeah, I could politely talk to my neighbor, but I don't know what
footing I'm on here. Is this guy required to clean up after the dogs?
If the smell is bothering you, he's creating a nuisance. Talk to him,
and firmly but politely tell him the smell is bothering you, and has
been for years, you just can't stand it anymore, and to please start
cleaning up regularly.

End the conversation right there. Don't get into it with him. If he
doesn't comply, go the official route. Give him a notice in writing
with a firm deadline and request to keep up the cleaning (keep a copy
for yourself). If he still doesn't comply with your request, complain
to animal control and public health. Take pictures before you talk to
him, 5 days later, etc, to document his level of compliance. Officials
won't do anything without evidence.

I would not speak to him about it but go directly to the public health
authorities. Let them handle it. That is why we pay taxes. They have
the clout of fining him if he does not clean up and should not disclose
that you called them and make an enemy of the neighbor.

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 22:48:42 GMT, "F.H."
wrote:

Cheri wrote:
Dan_Musicant wrote in message ...

if I leave them open for even 1/2 a minute, I get flies in the house.
It hadn't occurred to me that the dog poop would be part of the reason
for this. I imagine it actually is.

Dan

Trust me, it is. Once the poop gets cleaned up, you'll be amazed at
how the fly population decreases. I know, because I lived with the
same problem, but not for long. I don't understand people and "filth"
issues at times. I was at a store this morning, stepped in to use the
bathroom, and lo and behold, someone had changed a babies dirty diaper
on the changing table, and just left it there. Gack.

Cheri

LOL, It's amazing the places people will leave these damned things these
days. Did you know?:

Eighty percent of the diaperings in this nation are done with
disposables. That comes to 18 BILLION diapers a year. Each one has an
outer layer of waterproof polypropylene and an inner layer of fluff made
from wood pulp plus super-slurper sodium polyacrylate that can hold a
hundred times its weight in water.

Those 18 billion diapers add up to 82,000 tons of plastic a year and 1.3
million tons of wood pulp -- 250,000 trees. After a few hours of active
service these materials are trucked away, primarily to landfills, where
they sit, neatly wrapped packages of excrement, entombed undegraded for
several hundred years.

130-Year-Old Outhouses Yield Treasures
Pair Of 130-Year-Old Ventura, Calif. Outhouses Yield Odd Collection Of
19th Century Artifacts

"The further you go down, the stronger the smell," archaeologist
Marisa Solorzano said. "But it's not that bad. These privies are
archaeological gold mines."

http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/Link.asp?L=255935



--
Oren

"The voices in my head may not be real, but they have some good ideas!"

i agree........................report him!





"Frank" frankdotlogullo@comcastperiodnet wrote in message
. ..
Abe wrote:
His dogs' barking has sometimes bothered me a lot but that's not the
subject of this post. The dogs crap a ton just over my back fence, up.
If I'm near that back fence, I can smell the crap. In the summer
(i.e. now), the smell is so bad I can smell it most times any time I go
in the back yard. I'm wondering if I should or can do a damn thing about
the dog crap.
Yeah, I could politely talk to my neighbor, but I don't know what
footing I'm on here. Is this guy required to clean up after the dogs?
If the smell is bothering you, he's creating a nuisance. Talk to him,
and firmly but politely tell him the smell is bothering you, and has
been for years, you just can't stand it anymore, and to please start
cleaning up regularly.

End the conversation right there. Don't get into it with him. If he
doesn't comply, go the official route. Give him a notice in writing
with a firm deadline and request to keep up the cleaning (keep a copy
for yourself). If he still doesn't comply with your request, complain
to animal control and public health. Take pictures before you talk to
him, 5 days later, etc, to document his level of compliance. Officials
won't do anything without evidence.

I would not speak to him about it but go directly to the public health
authorities. Let them handle it. That is why we pay taxes. They have
the clout of fining him if he does not clean up and should not disclose
that you called them and make an enemy of the neighbor.

Frank wrote:

I would not speak to him about it but go directly to the public health
authorities. Let them handle it. That is why we pay taxes. They
have the clout of fining him if he does not clean up and should not
disclose that you called them and make an enemy of the neighbor.

I couldn't more heartily disagree. There is plenty of time to use the
nuclear option if the neighbor won't comply. I admire Dan for trying to
resolve this problem without crying to the government to solve the problem
that may not exist: this may be just a thoughtless oversight. Folks should
try to work things out amongst themselves whenever possible.

As to an annonymous complaint, forget it. Having handled complaints in this
category when working for public health, the complainants name becomes part
of the public record. Dan's name might not be released when the
investigation ensues, but it will be when there is a specific action like a
fine. It is part of the 'due process' that takes place, which allows the
subject of the complaint to ask for a hearing with the Board of Health.

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

"Dan_Musicant" wrote
................

His dogs' barking has sometimes bothered me a lot but that's not the
subject of this post. The dogs crap a ton just over my back fence, which
is on the left side of the garage my neighbor built a few years ago. It
seems like he never cleans it up. AFAIK, he's NEVER cleaned any of it
up. If I'm near that back fence, I can smell the crap. In the summer
(i.e. now), the smell is so bad I can smell it most times any time I go
in the back yard. Glancing over the fence (wood fence) a couple of days
ago I saw (didn't count) must have been over 100 craps.
...............................
==
Unsanitary conditions aside, you could plant a living fence of quick
growing,
very tall dense trees/shrubs that would inhibit airflow from his yard.
Inside that fence,
plant some very very fragrant shrubs. Seriously. Also, suggest he frequently
toss some
lime on his yard to keep him from getting some horrible incurable disease.
Make one up.

Dan_Musicant wrote in
:

Lived here ~25 years, bought the house March 2000. Soon afterward met
a neighbor who shares a fence with me. We live on cross streets, and
my back fence is his left-side fence, partly. My entire back fence is
the back portion of his left fence.

He's had dogs ever since I've owned the house (i.e. at least 7 years).
If one of his dogs dies, he gets another. We introduced ourselves and
in an effort to seem quite neighborly he offered to lend me tools any
time I need them, should I need them. I've never taken him up on
that... I have a lot of tools and when I don't have some I need but
not enough to buy, I can generally get them at the very local tool
lending library (Berkeley, CA). Under the current circumstances, I
would never dream of asking to borrow a tool:

His dogs' barking has sometimes bothered me a lot but that's not the
subject of this post. The dogs crap a ton just over my back fence,
which is on the left side of the garage my neighbor built a few years
ago. It seems like he never cleans it up. AFAIK, he's NEVER cleaned
any of it up. If I'm near that back fence, I can smell the crap. In
the summer (i.e. now), the smell is so bad I can smell it most times
any time I go in the back yard. Glancing over the fence (wood fence) a
couple of days ago I saw (didn't count) must have been over 100 craps.

I've never mentioned this to anyone except a home-owning friend of
mine, who himself owns two dogs. His reaction is that it's terrible
and "unsanitary." Now, this friend of mine has a history of occasional
serious conflicts with his neighbors, serious enough that he sold his
house and moved into his other house (he buys fixer-uppers and now
makes a living renovating them). I always try to avoid confrontations
with my neighbors. I have enough to concern me without second guessing
how I'm getting along with them, worrying about what they think about
me, etc. I'm wondering if I should or can do a damn thing about the
dog crap. Yeah, I could politely talk to my neighbor, but I don't know
what footing I'm on here. Is this guy required to clean up after the
dogs?

TIA for wisdom, etc.

Dan


As others have said, try to resolve on a neighborly level. As others
have said, some people are just pigs and don't give a rats-ass.

If it all turns sour, you can cook some corn. WTF has corn do do with it
you ask? Put the cooked corn on a plate by the fence. Flies love to get
all over corn. Now bring the peace offering over to the pig *******. Let
him munch on some of his dogs ****.

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 17:00:54 -0700, "Dave Bugg"
wrote:

Frank wrote:

I would not speak to him about it but go directly to the public health
authorities. Let them handle it. That is why we pay taxes. They
have the clout of fining him if he does not clean up and should not
disclose that you called them and make an enemy of the neighbor.

I couldn't more heartily disagree. There is plenty of time to use the
nuclear option if the neighbor won't comply. I admire Dan for trying to
resolve this problem without crying to the government to solve the problem
that may not exist: this may be just a thoughtless oversight. Folks should
try to work things out amongst themselves whenever possible.

I agree Dave. I might talk across the fence now and then, just chit
chat. I will not go next door for something serious. This puts me in
the "tiger den". I would rather ask the person over for coffee, etc.
Now, he is in my den. Even meeting for breakfast at a neutral
location to "talk". In a neutral location both parties have to be
civil in public!

As to an annonymous complaint, forget it. Having handled complaints in this
category when working for public health, the complainants name becomes part
of the public record. Dan's name might not be released when the
investigation ensues, but it will be when there is a specific action like a
fine. It is part of the 'due process' that takes place, which allows the
subject of the complaint to ask for a hearing with the Board of Health.

"government in the Sunshine"

--
Oren

"The voices in my head may not be real, but they have some good ideas!"

On Jul 19, 3:24 pm, Dan_Musicant wrote:
Lived here ~25 years, bought the house March 2000. Soon afterward met a
neighbor who shares a fence with me. We live on cross streets, and my
back fence is his left-side fence, partly. My entire back fence is the
back portion of his left fence.

He's had dogs ever since I've owned the house (i.e. at least 7 years).
If one of his dogs dies, he gets another. We introduced ourselves and in
an effort to seem quite neighborly he offered to lend me tools any time
I need them, should I need them. I've never taken him up on that... I
have a lot of tools and when I don't have some I need but not enough to
buy, I can generally get them at the very local tool lending library
(Berkeley, CA). Under the current circumstances, I would never dream of
asking to borrow a tool:

His dogs' barking has sometimes bothered me a lot but that's not the
subject of this post. The dogs crap a ton just over my back fence, which
is on the left side of the garage my neighbor built a few years ago. It
seems like he never cleans it up. AFAIK, he's NEVER cleaned any of it
up. If I'm near that back fence, I can smell the crap. In the summer
(i.e. now), the smell is so bad I can smell it most times any time I go
in the back yard. Glancing over the fence (wood fence) a couple of days
ago I saw (didn't count) must have been over 100 craps.

I've never mentioned this to anyone except a home-owning friend of mine,
who himself owns two dogs. His reaction is that it's terrible and
"unsanitary." Now, this friend of mine has a history of occasional
serious conflicts with his neighbors, serious enough that he sold his
house and moved into his other house (he buys fixer-uppers and now makes
a living renovating them). I always try to avoid confrontations with my
neighbors. I have enough to concern me without second guessing how I'm
getting along with them, worrying about what they think about me, etc.
I'm wondering if I should or can do a damn thing about the dog crap.
Yeah, I could politely talk to my neighbor, but I don't know what
footing I'm on here. Is this guy required to clean up after the dogs?

TIA for wisdom, etc.

Dan

How about spreading 'moth crystals' (like crushed moth balls) around
the area?

Lewis.

*****

On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 00:02:53 GMT, "Gini" wrote:

Also, suggest he frequently
toss some
lime on his yard to keep him from getting some horrible incurable disease.

Lime is good. He might need 100 lbs, one lb. for each pile :-))

A liquid spray over the fence might stop the dog from ****ting in the
area.

2/3 water
1/3 veggie oil
cayenne pepper
hot sauce
garlic powder


(I would have to look it up for all ingredients) Mix in spray bottle
and spray. I have used this to stop dogs ****ing in my front lawn.
They just move on. . Rain will wash away, so re-apply.





--
Oren

"The voices in my head may not be real, but they have some good ideas!"

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 19:02:02 -0400, Frank
frankdotlogullo@comcastperiodnet wrote:

Abe wrote:
His dogs' barking has sometimes bothered me a lot but that's not the
subject of this post. The dogs crap a ton just over my back fence,
up. If I'm near that back fence, I can smell the crap. In the summer
(i.e. now), the smell is so bad I can smell it most times any time I go
in the back yard.
I'm wondering if I should or can do a damn thing about the dog crap.
Yeah, I could politely talk to my neighbor, but I don't know what
footing I'm on here. Is this guy required to clean up after the dogs?
If the smell is bothering you, he's creating a nuisance. Talk to him,
and firmly but politely tell him the smell is bothering you, and has
been for years, you just can't stand it anymore, and to please start
cleaning up regularly.

End the conversation right there. Don't get into it with him. If he
doesn't comply, go the official route. Give him a notice in writing
with a firm deadline and request to keep up the cleaning (keep a copy
for yourself). If he still doesn't comply with your request, complain
to animal control and public health. Take pictures before you talk to
him, 5 days later, etc, to document his level of compliance. Officials
won't do anything without evidence.

I would not speak to him about it but go directly to the public health
authorities. Let them handle it. That is why we pay taxes. They have

Even though he has never complained about it before! No, that is not
why we pay taxes. We pay taxes to handle problems we can't handle
ourselves. It's not like his neighbor is going to shoot him for
complaining. The WORST he will do is insult him or ignore him.

the clout of fining him if he does not clean up and should not disclose
that you called them and make an enemy of the neighbor.

That's an argument, but it's not generally good enough. If this is a
concern, there are ways to feel out a neighbor without discussing the
dog problem itself whether he feels he is a good neighbor, and is
likely to respond to a personal request. Depending on the wind
direction, he might not know that there is any problem at all. Or his
nose might be much less sensitive than average.

It would be better to leave a tactful, anonymous note, or to send a
polite letter, with no return address, than to go straight to the
government.

Even in a case where someone has complained before, if a year ago or
more, or in a case like this, even last summer, unless the guy blew
him off, he should talk to him again. That is, if he said, Yeah, I'll
do something, and never did, he should complain directly to the guy
again before going to any agency.

I watch the Piple's Court a lot, and it really ticks a lot of people
off when someone goes to a third party, especially a government
agency, befoer talking to them. It makes them recalcitrant, and they
tend to feel that if the complainer is going to use force, the agency,
then they are only going to respond to force, and they're only going
to do the minimum. If forced, they'll cooperate for a while, and then
they'll stop and then the agrieved party has to go to the authorities
every time he wants anything, an agencyt which may become slower and
slower to respond, in favor of pursuing easier cases first.

People also don't like having a negative mark on their "official"
record, and I agree with them.

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 20:24:23 GMT, Dan_Musicant
wrote:

Lived here ~25 years, bought the house March 2000. Soon afterward met a
neighbor who shares a fence with me. We live on cross streets, and my
back fence is his left-side fence, partly. My entire back fence is the
back portion of his left fence.

He's had dogs ever since I've owned the house (i.e. at least 7 years).
If one of his dogs dies, he gets another. We introduced ourselves and in
an effort to seem quite neighborly he offered to lend me tools any time
I need them, should I need them. I've never taken him up on that... I
have a lot of tools and when I don't have some I need but not enough to
buy, I can generally get them at the very local tool lending library
(Berkeley, CA). Under the current circumstances, I would never dream of
asking to borrow a tool:

His dogs' barking has sometimes bothered me a lot but that's not the
subject of this post. The dogs crap a ton just over my back fence, which
is on the left side of the garage my neighbor built a few years ago. It
seems like he never cleans it up. AFAIK, he's NEVER cleaned any of it
up. If I'm near that back fence, I can smell the crap. In the summer
(i.e. now), the smell is so bad I can smell it most times any time I go
in the back yard. Glancing over the fence (wood fence) a couple of days
ago I saw (didn't count) must have been over 100 craps.

I've never mentioned this to anyone except a home-owning friend of mine,
who himself owns two dogs. His reaction is that it's terrible and
"unsanitary." Now, this friend of mine has a history of occasional
serious conflicts with his neighbors, serious enough that he sold his
house and moved into his other house (he buys fixer-uppers and now makes
a living renovating them). I always try to avoid confrontations with my
neighbors. I have enough to concern me without second guessing how I'm
getting along with them, worrying about what they think about me, etc.
I'm wondering if I should or can do a damn thing about the dog crap.
Yeah, I could politely talk to my neighbor, but I don't know what
footing I'm on here. Is this guy required to clean up after the dogs?

TIA for wisdom, etc.

Dan

I had the same exact problem a few years back with a neighbor who had
2 large Dobermans and 3 miniatures so I can feel your pain (should I
say odor). After trying to be neighborly and asking them to clean it
up in a diplomatic way - which failed, I complained to the local board
of health. Since my town only allows you the right to own 3 dogs, they
were told to get rid of 2 of them. Since this was not an option for
them, they sold the house and moved.

On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 00:20:08 -0000, "
wrote:

How about spreading 'moth crystals' (like crushed moth balls) around
the area?

Lewis.

That will certainly keep the moths off the poo.

--
Oren

"The voices in my head may not be real, but they have some good ideas!"

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 20:36:29 -0400, mm
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 19:02:02 -0400, Frank
frankdotlogullo@comcastperiodnet wrote:

Abe wrote:
His dogs' barking has sometimes bothered me a lot but that's not the
subject of this post. The dogs crap a ton just over my back fence,
up. If I'm near that back fence, I can smell the crap. In the summer
(i.e. now), the smell is so bad I can smell it most times any time I go
in the back yard.
I'm wondering if I should or can do a damn thing about the dog crap.
Yeah, I could politely talk to my neighbor, but I don't know what
footing I'm on here. Is this guy required to clean up after the dogs?
If the smell is bothering you, he's creating a nuisance. Talk to him,
and firmly but politely tell him the smell is bothering you, and has
been for years, you just can't stand it anymore, and to please start
cleaning up regularly.

End the conversation right there. Don't get into it with him. If he
doesn't comply, go the official route. Give him a notice in writing
with a firm deadline and request to keep up the cleaning (keep a copy
for yourself). If he still doesn't comply with your request, complain
to animal control and public health. Take pictures before you talk to
him, 5 days later, etc, to document his level of compliance. Officials
won't do anything without evidence.

I would not speak to him about it but go directly to the public health
authorities. Let them handle it. That is why we pay taxes. They have

Even though he has never complained about it before! No, that is not
why we pay taxes. We pay taxes to handle problems we can't handle
ourselves. It's not like his neighbor is going to shoot him for
complaining. The WORST he will do is insult him or ignore him.

the clout of fining him if he does not clean up and should not disclose
that you called them and make an enemy of the neighbor.

That's an argument, but it's not generally good enough. If this is a
concern, there are ways to feel out a neighbor without discussing the
dog problem itself whether he feels he is a good neighbor, and is
likely to respond to a personal request. Depending on the wind
direction, he might not know that there is any problem at all. Or his
nose might be much less sensitive than average.

It would be better to leave a tactful, anonymous note, or to send a
polite letter, with no return address, than to go straight to the
government.

Even in a case where someone has complained before, if a year ago or
more, or in a case like this, even last summer, unless the guy blew
him off, he should talk to him again. That is, if he said, Yeah, I'll
do something, and never did, he should complain directly to the guy
again before going to any agency.

I watch the Piple's Court a lot, and it really ticks a lot of people
off when someone goes to a third party, especially a government
agency, befoer talking to them. It makes them recalcitrant, and they
tend to feel that if the complainer is going to use force, the agency,
then they are only going to respond to force, and they're only going
to do the minimum. If forced, they'll cooperate for a while, and then
they'll stop and then the agrieved party has to go to the authorities
every time he wants anything, an agencyt which may become slower and
slower to respond, in favor of pursuing easier cases first.

(*recalcitrant* - funny) It can be by nature or learned ;-))

Bring that recalcitrant in here, so we can hurry up and have a fair
trail!


People also don't like having a negative mark on their "official"
record, and I agree with them.

Well you can't be a cowboy without stepping in horse ****! That makes
one official and on record. :0




--
Oren

"The voices in my head may not be real, but they have some good ideas!"

On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 00:02:53 GMT, "Gini" wrote:


==
Unsanitary conditions aside, you could plant a living fence of quick
growing,
very tall dense trees/shrubs that would inhibit airflow from his yard.
Inside that fence,
plant some very very fragrant shrubs. Seriously. Also, suggest he frequently
toss some
lime on his yard to keep him from getting some horrible incurable disease.
Make one up.

Schistosomaisis. Or shocking-diabetes.

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 20:59:17 -0400, DocPapsmear
wrote:



I had the same exact problem a few years back with a neighbor who had
2 large Dobermans and 3 miniatures so I can feel your pain (should I
say odor). After trying to be neighborly and asking them to clean it
up in a diplomatic way - which failed, I complained to the local board
of health. Since my town only allows you the right to own 3 dogs, they
were told to get rid of 2 of them. Since this was not an option for
them, they sold the house and moved.

Wow!

Areason for the OP to find out his rights and their responsibilities
in the first place, without making any complaints to the government.

"Dan_Musicant" wrote in message
...
Lived here ~25 years, bought the house March 2000. Soon afterward
met a
neighbor who shares a fence with me. We live on cross streets, and
my
back fence is his left-side fence, partly. My entire back fence is
the
back portion of his left fence.

The dogs crap a ton just over my back fence, which
is on the left side of the garage my neighbor built a few years ago.
It
seems like he never cleans it up. AFAIK, he's NEVER cleaned any of
it
up. If I'm near that back fence, I can smell the crap. In the summer
(i.e. now), the smell is so bad I can smell it most times any time I
go
in the back yard. Glancing over the fence (wood fence) a couple of
days
ago I saw (didn't count) must have been over 100 craps.


Some day when the conditions are their worst, invite the neighbor
over, and at an opportune time/place mention the problem - where he
can smell it. If he's a good neighbor, that should do it. Otherwise,
check with animal control. Where I live, it is illegal to not clean up
after your dogs. I think it is considered an "animal cruelty" or
animal health issue or something.

Bob

wrote in message
ps.com...
On Jul 19, 3:24 pm, Dan_Musicant wrote:
Lived here ~25 years, bought the house March 2000. Soon afterward met a
neighbor who shares a fence with me. We live on cross streets, and my
back fence is his left-side fence, partly. My entire back fence is the
back portion of his left fence.

He's had dogs ever since I've owned the house (i.e. at least 7 years).
If one of his dogs dies, he gets another. We introduced ourselves and in
an effort to seem quite neighborly he offered to lend me tools any time
I need them, should I need them. I've never taken him up on that... I
have a lot of tools and when I don't have some I need but not enough to
buy, I can generally get them at the very local tool lending library
(Berkeley, CA). Under the current circumstances, I would never dream of
asking to borrow a tool:

His dogs' barking has sometimes bothered me a lot but that's not the
subject of this post. The dogs crap a ton just over my back fence, which
is on the left side of the garage my neighbor built a few years ago. It
seems like he never cleans it up. AFAIK, he's NEVER cleaned any of it
up. If I'm near that back fence, I can smell the crap. In the summer
(i.e. now), the smell is so bad I can smell it most times any time I go
in the back yard. Glancing over the fence (wood fence) a couple of days
ago I saw (didn't count) must have been over 100 craps.

I've never mentioned this to anyone except a home-owning friend of mine,
who himself owns two dogs. His reaction is that it's terrible and
"unsanitary." Now, this friend of mine has a history of occasional
serious conflicts with his neighbors, serious enough that he sold his
house and moved into his other house (he buys fixer-uppers and now makes
a living renovating them). I always try to avoid confrontations with my
neighbors. I have enough to concern me without second guessing how I'm
getting along with them, worrying about what they think about me, etc.
I'm wondering if I should or can do a damn thing about the dog crap.
Yeah, I could politely talk to my neighbor, but I don't know what
footing I'm on here. Is this guy required to clean up after the dogs?

TIA for wisdom, etc.

Dan

How about spreading 'moth crystals' (like crushed moth balls) around
the area?

Lewis.

Nonsense. Nobody should spend a penny to solve problems caused by dog
criminals.

Bob F wrote:
Some day when the conditions are their worst, invite the neighbor
over, and at an opportune time/place mention the problem - where he
can smell it. If he's a good neighbor, that should do it. Otherwise,
check with animal control. Where I live, it is illegal to not clean up
after your dogs. I think it is considered an "animal cruelty" or
animal health issue or something.



To solution to pollution is dilution. My dog craps in a different place every
day.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

Oren wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 22:48:42 GMT, "F.H."
wrote:

Cheri wrote:
Dan_Musicant wrote in message ...
if I leave them open for even 1/2 a minute, I get flies in the house.
It hadn't occurred to me that the dog poop would be part of the reason
for this. I imagine it actually is.

Dan
Trust me, it is. Once the poop gets cleaned up, you'll be amazed at
how the fly population decreases. I know, because I lived with the
same problem, but not for long. I don't understand people and "filth"
issues at times. I was at a store this morning, stepped in to use the
bathroom, and lo and behold, someone had changed a babies dirty diaper
on the changing table, and just left it there. Gack.

Cheri
LOL, It's amazing the places people will leave these damned things these
days. Did you know?:

Eighty percent of the diaperings in this nation are done with
disposables. That comes to 18 BILLION diapers a year. Each one has an
outer layer of waterproof polypropylene and an inner layer of fluff made
from wood pulp plus super-slurper sodium polyacrylate that can hold a
hundred times its weight in water.

Those 18 billion diapers add up to 82,000 tons of plastic a year and 1.3
million tons of wood pulp -- 250,000 trees. After a few hours of active
service these materials are trucked away, primarily to landfills, where
they sit, neatly wrapped packages of excrement, entombed undegraded for
several hundred years.

130-Year-Old Outhouses Yield Treasures
Pair Of 130-Year-Old Ventura, Calif. Outhouses Yield Odd Collection Of
19th Century Artifacts

"The further you go down, the stronger the smell," archaeologist
Marisa Solorzano said. "But it's not that bad. These privies are
archaeological gold mines."

http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/Link.asp?L=255935

LOL, in this case, the "gold" is in the eye of the beholder.

"Bob F" wrote in news:F-
:


"Dan_Musicant" wrote in message
...
Lived here ~25 years, bought the house March 2000. Soon afterward
met a
neighbor who shares a fence with me. We live on cross streets, and
my
back fence is his left-side fence, partly. My entire back fence is
the
back portion of his left fence.

The dogs crap a ton just over my back fence, which
is on the left side of the garage my neighbor built a few years ago.
It
seems like he never cleans it up. AFAIK, he's NEVER cleaned any of
it
up. If I'm near that back fence, I can smell the crap. In the summer
(i.e. now), the smell is so bad I can smell it most times any time I
go
in the back yard. Glancing over the fence (wood fence) a couple of
days
ago I saw (didn't count) must have been over 100 craps.


Some day when the conditions are their worst, invite the neighbor
over,

Corn man! Do the corn!!

and at an opportune time/place mention the problem - where he
can smell it. If he's a good neighbor, that should do it. Otherwise,
check with animal control. Where I live, it is illegal to not clean up
after your dogs. I think it is considered an "animal cruelty" or
animal health issue or something.

Bob

"Dan_Musicant" wrote in message
...
...


His dogs' barking has sometimes bothered me a lot but that's not the
subject of this post. The dogs crap a ton just over my back fence, which
is on the left side of the garage my neighbor built a few years ago. It
seems like he never cleans it up. AFAIK, he's NEVER cleaned any of it
up. If I'm near that back fence, I can smell the crap. In the summer
(i.e. now), the smell is so bad I can smell it most times any time I go
in the back yard. Glancing over the fence (wood fence) a couple of days
ago I saw (didn't count) must have been over 100 craps.

I've never mentioned this to anyone except a home-owning friend of mine,
who himself owns two dogs. His reaction is that it's terrible and
"unsanitary." Now, this friend of mine has a history of occasional
serious conflicts with his neighbors, serious enough that he sold his
house and moved into his other house (he buys fixer-uppers and now makes
a living renovating them). I always try to avoid confrontations with my
neighbors. I have enough to concern me without second guessing how I'm
getting along with them, worrying about what they think about me, etc.
I'm wondering if I should or can do a damn thing about the dog crap.
Yeah, I could politely talk to my neighbor, but I don't know what
footing I'm on here. Is this guy required to clean up after the dogs?

TIA for wisdom, etc.

Dan

Invite him and his other half over for a beer/coffee/snack at the edge of
your garden on a hot day with a light breeze in your general direction. If
he doesn't have a better half to embarrass him then you could always ask a
4-year old to join you - those little kids don't hold much back when it
comes to cold hard facts ;-) [or in this case not so cold, not so hard
facts]

I feel for you ... I've lived happily in my family home for 6 years in
middle-aged suburbia, built a beautiful arbor/porch onto the house at the
end of last summer and some f'r moves in over my rear fence with 3 barking
mongrels and half a frat house that whine, whimper 24/7 and never go inside
even to pee.

PS: I would invite him over to enjoy your poop-free yard for a few hours and
maybe he'll see the light - just maybe.

PK

"mm" wrote
"Gini" wrote:


==
Unsanitary conditions aside, you could plant a living fence of quick
growing,
very tall dense trees/shrubs that would inhibit airflow from his yard.
Inside that fence,
plant some very very fragrant shrubs. Seriously. Also, suggest he
frequently
toss some
lime on his yard to keep him from getting some horrible incurable disease.
Make one up.

Schistosomaisis.
==
I like this one. It sounds like a cemetery parasite. Much more dreadful than
cooties.

Are you actually in Berkeley? Berkeley municipal code states there
should be no more than 4 dogs over age 6 months. If there are more adult
dogs than that, they are required to have a kennel set-up which is
approved by the humane society and there are set-back requirements for
said kennels.

As per recent CA laws regarding dogs being kept/tethered outside, etc.
the following may be helpful:

Section 10.04.140 Care requirements for dogs housed or left outdoors on private premises.

C. Shelter. If a dog is housed or left outdoors, its owner/guardian shall provide a “shelter” structure or other space for the dog ... (f) be kept clean and maintained in a manner designed to insure the
best possible sanitary conditions, e.g. excreta shall be removed from
the shelter as often as necessary,


Good luck dealing with Berkeley bureaucracy, you'll need it...

Karen, who used to live in the East Bay and worked in Berkeley for many
years

Dan_Musicant wrote:
Lived here ~25 years, bought the house March 2000. Soon afterward met a
neighbor who shares a fence with me. We live on cross streets, and my
back fence is his left-side fence, partly. My entire back fence is the
back portion of his left fence.

He's had dogs ever since I've owned the house (i.e. at least 7 years).
If one of his dogs dies, he gets another. We introduced ourselves and in
an effort to seem quite neighborly he offered to lend me tools any time
I need them, should I need them. I've never taken him up on that... I
have a lot of tools and when I don't have some I need but not enough to
buy, I can generally get them at the very local tool lending library
(Berkeley, CA). Under the current circumstances, I would never dream of
asking to borrow a tool:

His dogs' barking has sometimes bothered me a lot but that's not the
subject of this post. The dogs crap a ton just over my back fence, which
is on the left side of the garage my neighbor built a few years ago. It
seems like he never cleans it up. AFAIK, he's NEVER cleaned any of it
up. If I'm near that back fence, I can smell the crap. In the summer
(i.e. now), the smell is so bad I can smell it most times any time I go
in the back yard. Glancing over the fence (wood fence) a couple of days
ago I saw (didn't count) must have been over 100 craps.

I've never mentioned this to anyone except a home-owning friend of mine,
who himself owns two dogs. His reaction is that it's terrible and
"unsanitary." Now, this friend of mine has a history of occasional
serious conflicts with his neighbors, serious enough that he sold his
house and moved into his other house (he buys fixer-uppers and now makes
a living renovating them). I always try to avoid confrontations with my
neighbors. I have enough to concern me without second guessing how I'm
getting along with them, worrying about what they think about me, etc.
I'm wondering if I should or can do a damn thing about the dog crap.
Yeah, I could politely talk to my neighbor, but I don't know what
footing I'm on here. Is this guy required to clean up after the dogs?

TIA for wisdom, etc.

Dan

On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 03:56:33 GMT, "PK"
wrote:

Invite him and his other half over for a beer/coffee/snack at the edge of
your garden on a hot day with a light breeze in your general direction. If
he doesn't have a better half to embarrass him then you could always ask a
4-year old to join you - those little kids don't hold much back when it
comes to cold hard facts ;-) [or in this case not so cold, not so hard
facts]


PS: I would invite him over to enjoy your poop-free yard for a few hours and
maybe he'll see the light - just maybe.

Very good idea. Unless it is strong on the patio, I would take him for
a walk around your yard to show him your plantings. If you don't have
anything interesting to look at, tell him about your planned
plantings. When you're near his dog's place, you could perhaps talk
about how you avoid this part of the yard, and even the patio
sometimes.

Of course, I rarely get subtlety and sometimes when I think I've
gotten something, I'm not sure and I just ignore it, so you might have
to come right out and say the poop is a problem.

PK

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 20:24:23 GMT, Dan_Musicant
wrote:

Lived here ~25 years, bought the house March 2000. Soon afterward met a
snip

footing I'm on here. Is this guy required to clean up after the dogs?

TIA for wisdom, etc.

Dan


There isn't much you can really do and remain on good terms with your
neighbor. At one time my neighbor had 16 (large) dogs and the stench
and flies was intense. Our city requires three unrelated neighbors to
sign a complaint about dogs. You might consider growing mint near the
pile or just stay inside.

"Phisherman" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 20:24:23 GMT, Dan_Musicant
wrote:

Lived here ~25 years, bought the house March 2000. Soon afterward met a
snip

footing I'm on here. Is this guy required to clean up after the dogs?

TIA for wisdom, etc.

Dan


There isn't much you can really do and remain on good terms with your
neighbor. At one time my neighbor had 16 (large) dogs and the stench
and flies was intense. Our city requires three unrelated neighbors to
sign a complaint about dogs. You might consider growing mint near the
pile or just stay inside.


What a stupid response.

get a backbone.. if your on good terms with him allready, just
talk to him about it in a nice way and see what happends... its the
festering ,wondering what to do,getting mad thats unneccesary. lucas

http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm

wrote:
get a backbone.. if your on good terms with him allready,
just talk to him about it in a nice way and see what happends... its
the festering ,wondering what to do,getting mad thats unneccesary.

Spoken like a festering pustule of oozing WebTV goo. Learn how to properly
format a post to usenet.
--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 12:56:55 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Phisherman" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 20:24:23 GMT, Dan_Musicant
wrote:

Lived here ~25 years, bought the house March 2000. Soon afterward met a
snip

footing I'm on here. Is this guy required to clean up after the dogs?

TIA for wisdom, etc.

Dan


There isn't much you can really do and remain on good terms with your
neighbor. At one time my neighbor had 16 (large) dogs and the stench
and flies was intense. Our city requires three unrelated neighbors to
sign a complaint about dogs. You might consider growing mint near the
pile or just stay inside.


What a stupid response.


And yours?

On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 04:51:05 GMT, dkhedmo wrote:

:Are you actually in Berkeley? Berkeley municipal code states there
:should be no more than 4 dogs over age 6 months. If there are more adult
:dogs than that, they are required to have a kennel set-up which is
:approved by the humane society and there are set-back requirements for
:said kennels.
:
:As per recent CA laws regarding dogs being kept/tethered outside, etc.
:the following may be helpful:
:
: Section 10.04.140 Care requirements for dogs housed or left outdoors on private premises.
:
: C. Shelter. If a dog is housed or left outdoors, its owner/guardian shall provide a “shelter” structure or other space for the dog ... (f) be kept clean and maintained in a manner designed to insure the
:best possible sanitary conditions, e.g. excreta shall be removed from
:the shelter as often as necessary,
:
:
:Good luck dealing with Berkeley bureaucracy, you'll need it...
:
:Karen, who used to live in the East Bay and worked in Berkeley for many
:years

Yes, I'm actually in Berkeley and thanks for citing the city code. I'm
pretty sure he has less than 4 dogs, probably two. I figured that
Berkeley doesn't allow this guy to just let his dogs continually crap in
his backyard and never clean it up. I just went to my back fence with my
digicam and took 1/2 a dozen pictures. I hadn't taken the trouble to
look carefully before, but from my single vantage point on the fence I
could see that the dogs aren't just crapping next to the fence, but all
over the portion of his back yard that I can see -- the area in back of
his new garage, an area over 150 square feet, for sure. He just ignores
it, evidently. Many turds, most rather dried up by now, just sitting out
there. Now, I'm certain that it's an egregious code violation.

I've read all the posts up to this one and I'm inclined to agree with
the people who say I should talk to this guy before contemplating going
to the authorities. I can probably find the regulations online, FWIW,
but it isn't my inclination to go to the authorities if there's a chance
I can resolve a problem without doing so, and this situation can very
probably be so resolved. I'm not going over there today, because I want
to think about just what I'm going to say to this guy. He's tried to
come off as a nice guy, easy to get along with and I think if I approach
him in the right manner he will start keeping his back yard reasonably
clean. I don't want to create bad feelings, so I'm going to work on my
attitude, think about how to approach him. I've done many similar things
in the past (I think we all have), so I figure I can probably work this
problem out too. I don't think either of us needs to get belligerent.
It's been years, so there's no rush. I think the first step has been
made, actually, which is simply deciding that I'm going to talk to this
guy. It could happen today, it could happen in two weeks, who knows? But
it WILL happen! I rarely see him. He doesn't hang out in his back yard,
AFAIK. I may wait until I encounter him, or I may knock on his front
door. If I wait until I encounter him he will immediately realize I have
had something on my mind that I've wanted to talk to him about - not a
bad way to start the communication about this.

His house is generally upwind of his back yard, is a big part of the
problem, I figure. I don't think he has a wife. I don't know this for a
fact, but I suspect he lives there alone with his dogs. His house is due
west of the back yard, and the prevailing winds in Berkeley are from the
west or northwest. Only on rare days do we get offshore winds, and only
then would he sense the problem, assuming some of his windows were open.

Dan