I'm looking for suggestions for landlord software. Or do you just keep
records in a simple spreadsheet? We'll have probably 15 to 20 single family
houses by the end.

thanks!

--
Steve Barker

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
I'm looking for suggestions for landlord software. Or do you just keep
records in a simple spreadsheet? We'll have probably 15 to 20 single
family houses by the end.

thanks!

--
Steve Barker


The accounting function I do in Quicken and have for a number of years. I
have it set up so that I can get a combined report or a single property
report. No partners or LLCs so all the rental income goes into the same bank
account.

The escrow account is for the deposits and expenses are charged to the
property to which they belong.

Willing to share the details of how I set that up with you.

Colbyt

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
| I'm looking for suggestions for landlord software. Or do you just
keep
| records in a simple spreadsheet? We'll have probably 15 to 20 single
family
| houses by the end.


by the end of what?

just what we need, another slum lord who doesn't pay his taxes or repair
his property.
stick to owning a few rentals so you can maintain them for your paying
tenants.

are all your properties near the train tracks?
Instead of chasing trains you should be lying on the tracks like you lie
in AHR..


the sagacious dolt

I don't really know what I did to **** you off. By the end, I meant our
life. And who said anything about not paying taxes or repairing property??
And what did I lie about?

--
Steve Barker



" the sagacious dolt" wrote in message
...

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
| I'm looking for suggestions for landlord software. Or do you just
keep
| records in a simple spreadsheet? We'll have probably 15 to 20 single
family
| houses by the end.


by the end of what?

just what we need, another slum lord who doesn't pay his taxes or repair
his property.
stick to owning a few rentals so you can maintain them for your paying
tenants.

are all your properties near the train tracks?
Instead of chasing trains you should be lying on the tracks like you lie
in AHR..


the sagacious dolt

On Jan 17, 8:45 am, "Steve Barker" wrote:
I don't really know what I did to **** you off. By the end, I meant our
life. And who said anything about not paying taxes or repairing property??
And what did I lie about?

Don't take it personally, Steve; it's that there are so many people out
there looking to make a quick buck by purchasing real estate, making
the bare minimum of repairs, and rent 'em out for top dollar. And some
of 'em come in here looking for free advice on complicated issues
rather than spending a few coins to hire a professional to take care of
the problem properly.

I get some of the same looks simply for owning an investment home which
my wife and I have fixed up and rent out. Of course, the critics would
be/are silent as soon as they see the before and after photos of what
we did to the house. (http://www.chillweb.net/KathyAndKyle/KirkwallCt/)
Heck, we would have moved into the house and rented out our current
home (to get off a noisy main street) were it not for the fact the
investment home doesn't have a fireplace, that's the kind of work we do.

Thanks for the reasonable reply. My wife and I live near a town chock full
of 80-100 year old house in need of much TLC. Our plan is to add one rental
to our collection per year, and try to flip 2 or 3 per year for cash flow.
We have no intention of being "slum lords" and have every intention of
improving these homes and the area they sit in. In fact, I've already
purchased electrical components to upgrade one we haven't closed on yet.
G. I'll check out your website, it looks like we have similar interests
and intents.

--
Steve Barker



"Kyle" wrote in message
s.com...

Don't take it personally, Steve; it's that there are so many people out
there looking to make a quick buck by purchasing real estate, making
the bare minimum of repairs, and rent 'em out for top dollar. And some
of 'em come in here looking for free advice on complicated issues
rather than spending a few coins to hire a professional to take care of
the problem properly.

I get some of the same looks simply for owning an investment home which
my wife and I have fixed up and rent out. Of course, the critics would
be/are silent as soon as they see the before and after photos of what
we did to the house. (http://www.chillweb.net/KathyAndKyle/KirkwallCt/)
Heck, we would have moved into the house and rented out our current
home (to get off a noisy main street) were it not for the fact the
investment home doesn't have a fireplace, that's the kind of work we do.

On Jan 16, 8:59 pm, "Steve Barker" wrote:
I'm looking for suggestions for landlord software. Or do you just keep
records in a simple spreadsheet? We'll have probably 15 to 20 single family
houses by the end.

I would strongly advise against any so-called "simple" route like
trying to keep it all in Excel or a paper accounting ledger. One
property, maybe, but if you're talking about acquiring a number of
properties in short order, you'll want a comprehensive package that
includes both forms (legal, contractual, tracking forms and the like)
as well as some sort of financial aspect that will enable you to
monitor expenses, income, manage escrow for purchases of new properties
and security deposits, stuff like that.

Apparently Quicken has something they've offered (I saw a Google ad)
that might be of interest.

And using a search engine will be helpful, but don't use "landlord" or
"landlording" as a search term, but use words like "property
management" or "investment properties" and the like.

Let us know what you find and what you choose, as well - there are a
few of us in this newsgroup who don't want to be slumlords but want to
do a good job, and would appreciate knowing how you do.

If you are just interested in financial records, then think of it as a
business. Use business accounting software. Best to have a CPA set up your
record keeping for you so it is right from the get go.

Then get a file cabinet and have a file for each property. Might also want
to have a separate file for each renter by their name on the tab. I assume
you will be running background checks on each renter, using rental
agreements, keeping records of deposits, etc. You could make your own forms
for this and keep them in each renters file.

Since all this stuff starts with paperwork, it would be a lot more work to
enter all the information into a computer. Less work to use a file/paperwork
record system for each renter.

With Microsoft word, you can make a "table" with columns. 1st column renters
name, 2nd column property address, 3rd column renter's phone number(s). Then
you can sort this list by name, or by property address. (Highlight
everything in one column and then sort it.) So you could then have a
handy-dandy list of the names of renters for each property and their contact
info. Just keep the list updated as renters change.

My want to find a local landlord association. Here is a national
association... (search google.com for landlord association [your state])
http://nail-usa.com


"Steve Barker" wrote in message
I'm looking for suggestions for landlord software. Or do you just keep
records in a simple spreadsheet? We'll have probably 15 to 20 single
family houses by the end.

thanks!

--
Steve Barker

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
I'm looking for suggestions for landlord software. Or do you just keep
records in a simple spreadsheet? We'll have probably 15 to 20 single
family houses by the end.

thanks!

--
Steve Barker

Imagine Rod Serling's voice .............

A small town. Rental houses with a history, each one a study in Americana
...............

We have vacation rentals in Las Vegas and Southern Utah. Right now, we have
four. We advertise them through vrbo.com and get tons of exposure. IIRC,
about $150 per year each.

Our occupancy percentages are 21 days a month.

The difference is ............ mortgage payments on each house is about $600
per month, and we charge that for a three day minimum stay. $1500 per week,
or $3500 per month. Lots less wear and tear than regular renters, and way
more income.

Were we to rent the same houses, we could get maybe $1300 a month, but that
is eaten up by a lot of upkeep. On most rentals, all the landlord is
looking for is a way to break even and make equity. But it is a slow
process. We take the overage from the rentals and buy first deeds of trust
in $10,000 multiples, and get from 14% to 28% on them, and they mature in
six to eighteen months.

The downside is that they have to be located in good areas of town, that
they have to be attractive furnished houses, but that is offset by the
income. You need to be the cleaning/turn around team to get them ready for
the next tenant, or have a good team of maids, gardeners, pool guys, spa
guys, etc. But, as I say, the benefits far exceed the costs. So far in
three years we have had no theft or broken items, save a dishwasher, coffee
pot and garbage disposal that died natural deaths. A couple of service
calls for the AC.

We get paid $400 to hold the dates. We get paid in full before arrival. We
do it all on credit cards over the phone, or CASH ON ARRIVAL. We love that.
;-) If all is well upon departing, the guest gets back their refund within
a week by electronic means. We have traded weeks with other vacation
rentals owners all over the world. An even swap.

I am not saying that you should do all your properties this way, or any of
them. It depends on where you are, the market, and lots of things. But
consider the idea, maybe if even for a few of them. One company here in
Vegas has about 500 of them. I can't imagine how much he makes off these.

You will net out a lot more money on vacation rental vs. normal rentals.
Better tenants, less headaches, less drama.

Oh, yeah. To answer your question, we just use Quick Books Pro. NObody
uses spread sheets any more. Even Excel would do it.

Steve

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
I'm looking for suggestions for landlord software. Or do you just keep
records in a simple spreadsheet? We'll have probably 15 to 20 single
family houses by the end.

thanks!

--
Steve Barker


I don't use "can" retail programs because its set up one way and I couldn't
change it to do things my way. At first I use a compiler to write my own
simple routines then switched to a database software but I found the
spreadsheet is easier and more flexible. The rental info in my spreadsheets
is linked to my tax return program which is also in spreadsheet format.

Why so many houses Steve? If you don't use property management those rentals
will drive you nuts not to mention Schedule E, deprecation and the ever
changing tenant/landlord laws. Have you looked into REITs or TICs?

Isn't that what being a landlord is about? Why make it so nice and
spend too much money? Tenants should only be renting temporarily
anyway and try to buy a home.

Kyle wrote:
On Jan 17, 8:45 am, "Steve Barker" wrote:
I don't really know what I did to **** you off. By the end, I meant our
life. And who said anything about not paying taxes or repairing property??
And what did I lie about?

Don't take it personally, Steve; it's that there are so many people out
there looking to make a quick buck by purchasing real estate, making
the bare minimum of repairs, and rent 'em out for top dollar. And some
of 'em come in here looking for free advice on complicated issues
rather than spending a few coins to hire a professional to take care of
the problem properly.

I get some of the same looks simply for owning an investment home which
my wife and I have fixed up and rent out. Of course, the critics would
be/are silent as soon as they see the before and after photos of what
we did to the house. (http://www.chillweb.net/KathyAndKyle/KirkwallCt/)
Heck, we would have moved into the house and rented out our current
home (to get off a noisy main street) were it not for the fact the
investment home doesn't have a fireplace, that's the kind of work we do.

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 19:59:00 -0600, "Steve Barker"
wrote:

I'm looking for suggestions for landlord software. Or do you just keep
records in a simple spreadsheet? We'll have probably 15 to 20 single family
houses by the end.

thanks!

Establish a bank account for each property; giving the address on each
checking account, also the checks will be your mail address. Bring
this into an accounting software like Intuit and see your tax man and
your head doctor with that many headaches.


rots of ruck ree-roy


--
Oren

"Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."

Thanks for the reply Fred. It's probably an unrealistic goal. We're just
getting started, and will do it one at a time. The only thing we know for
sure is that neither of us wants to go back to 9 to 5.

--
Steve Barker



"# Fred #" wrote in message
. ..

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
I'm looking for suggestions for landlord software. Or do you just keep
records in a simple spreadsheet? We'll have probably 15 to 20 single
family houses by the end.

thanks!

--
Steve Barker


I don't use "can" retail programs because its set up one way and I
couldn't change it to do things my way. At first I use a compiler to write
my own simple routines then switched to a database software but I found
the spreadsheet is easier and more flexible. The rental info in my
spreadsheets is linked to my tax return program which is also in
spreadsheet format.

Why so many houses Steve? If you don't use property management those
rentals will drive you nuts not to mention Schedule E, deprecation and the
ever changing tenant/landlord laws. Have you looked into REITs or TICs?

Thanks to everyone who replied. I have printed out the replies and review
them I'm sure many times. G

--
Steve Barker

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 19:59:00 -0600, "Steve Barker"
wrote:

I'm looking for suggestions for landlord software. Or do you just keep
records in a simple spreadsheet? We'll have probably 15 to 20 single family
houses by the end.

thanks!

Gee, other guys answering you seem to do it in a very complex ways.

I keep a composition notebook for each property (have managed 15
multi-family houses for nearly 20 years). I put expenses on the right
pages and income on the right. (yep, I'm also wearing my visor and
using my quill pen...)
:-)

At the end of each tax year, I total the gross income for each
property. I then categorize each expense item into the standard IRS
categories. After doing that once, it's child's play.

Entering the data into Turbotax is easy. After the first year it does
all my depreciation schedules for me, fills out form 4562, schedule
E's and all that. The year end accounting and tax filing, from start
to finish takes me about 6 hours.

I've kept up with most IRS regulations and probably have saved money
by NOT using an accountant (Turbotax is wonderful in its ability to do
what if? scenarios, to rapidly change the entire return and does year
to year comparisons).

I used to use a computer but got tired of firing up the computer to
enter every tiny expense. I just slide my book for that property off
the shelf and make the entry in 30 seconds. All income is kept in one
account (with the exception of tenant security deposits that, by law
in my state, must be kept separately).

Primitive? Yep...
Effective and simple?
Yep...

Our society seem to be increasingly hooked on computerizing
everything. Sometimes it just ain't necessary.

Doug

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
| Thanks for the reasonable reply. My wife and I live near a town chock
full
| of 80-100 year old house in need of much TLC. Our plan is to add one
rental
| to our collection per year, and try to flip 2 or 3 per year for cash
flow.

I think you watch too much tv.
get out into the real world and forget this "flipping" craze.
even the idiots that host that lame show "flip this house" have many
lawsuits against them and have filed for bankrupsy.
It is not as easy as it seems you know.

do not listen to the man behind the curtain.
it may not even be a man.




| We have no intention of being "slum lords" and have every intention of
| improving these homes and the area they sit in. In fact, I've already
| purchased electrical components to upgrade one we haven't closed on
yet.
| G. I'll check out your website, it looks like we have similar
interests
| and intents.
|
| --
| Steve Barker
|
|
|
| "Kyle" wrote in message
| s.com...
|
| Don't take it personally, Steve; it's that there are so many people
out
| there looking to make a quick buck by purchasing real estate, making
| the bare minimum of repairs, and rent 'em out for top dollar. And
some
| of 'em come in here looking for free advice on complicated issues
| rather than spending a few coins to hire a professional to take care
of
| the problem properly.
|
| I get some of the same looks simply for owning an investment home
which
| my wife and I have fixed up and rent out. Of course, the critics
would
| be/are silent as soon as they see the before and after photos of
what
| we did to the house.
(http://www.chillweb.net/KathyAndKyle/KirkwallCt/)
| Heck, we would have moved into the house and rented out our current
| home (to get off a noisy main street) were it not for the fact the
| investment home doesn't have a fireplace, that's the kind of work we
do.
|
|
|

Doug, I appreciate your down to earth approach. While I'm hooked on
computers, I still use a rolodex also. I can recognize when the computer is
a hindrance. Also, I can see when an accountant is not necessary. I have
printed out your reply and will take the advice seriously.

thanks again,
--
Steve Barker


"Doug" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 19:59:00 -0600, "Steve Barker"
wrote:

I'm looking for suggestions for landlord software. Or do you just keep
records in a simple spreadsheet? We'll have probably 15 to 20 single
family
houses by the end.

thanks!

Gee, other guys answering you seem to do it in a very complex ways.

I keep a composition notebook for each property (have managed 15
multi-family houses for nearly 20 years). I put expenses on the right
pages and income on the right. (yep, I'm also wearing my visor and
using my quill pen...)
:-)

At the end of each tax year, I total the gross income for each
property. I then categorize each expense item into the standard IRS
categories. After doing that once, it's child's play.

Entering the data into Turbotax is easy. After the first year it does
all my depreciation schedules for me, fills out form 4562, schedule
E's and all that. The year end accounting and tax filing, from start
to finish takes me about 6 hours.

I've kept up with most IRS regulations and probably have saved money
by NOT using an accountant (Turbotax is wonderful in its ability to do
what if? scenarios, to rapidly change the entire return and does year
to year comparisons).

I used to use a computer but got tired of firing up the computer to
enter every tiny expense. I just slide my book for that property off
the shelf and make the entry in 30 seconds. All income is kept in one
account (with the exception of tenant security deposits that, by law
in my state, must be kept separately).

Primitive? Yep...
Effective and simple?
Yep...

Our society seem to be increasingly hooked on computerizing
everything. Sometimes it just ain't necessary.

Doug

You're a renter. Aren't you? And one that smokes and has dogs. Probably
pit bulls. Your name is correct. DOLT.

--
Steve Barker

" the sagacious dolt" wrote in message
...

I think you watch too much tv.
get out into the real world and forget this "flipping" craze.
even the idiots that host that lame show "flip this house" have many
lawsuits against them and have filed for bankrupsy.
It is not as easy as it seems you know.

do not listen to the man behind the curtain.
it may not even be a man.

"John~ "
wrote

other excellent comments snipped

I tried MYOB and Quicken, but it was a hassle for only a few entries a
month. The K-I-S-S principle works just fine for me.

John

Most anything works IF, and I repeat IF, you just keep up with it. Keep
those receipts. Make entries weekly or monthly, or just when the
transaction takes place.

That's what screws most people up is not doing it as they go along, and then
there's a mountain of paper to decipher and enter.

At least, that has been my experience.

Steve

Thanks for the reply.

--
Steve Barker


"John~ "
wrote in message
. net...

Congratulations on leading "The Simple Life"g. I have used a similar
system for twelve years and it works fine.

In my case I use a "Six Column Analysis Pad" that I get at Office
Creepo. I list the properties down the side and label the columns
exactly like the 1040 Schedule E, i.e. Rent, Utilities, Supplies,
Repairs, Cleaning&Maintenance, etc. I have a page for each month and
page 13 is a "Recap" which includes annual totals that go directly into
Turbo Tax.

I also have a dedicated credit card account that is used solely for
rental property purchases. I have the ultimate high tech system to
organize purchase receipts; it's called a plastic shoebox. There is a
binder clip on the edge of the box that holds cash receipts for $1.98
purchases that aren't worth using plastic for. When I accumulate a
pile of them, I total them, staple them together, write myself a check
and toss them in the box.

I tried MYOB and Quicken, but it was a hassle for only a few entries a
month. The K-I-S-S principle works just fine for me.

John

wrote:
Isn't that what being a landlord is about? Why make it so nice and
spend too much money? Tenants should only be renting temporarily
anyway and try to buy a home.

Not necessarily. There are financial situations where it is better for
someone(s) to rent instead of buy a house, and take the difference
between what they'd pay on a mortgage and what they're paying in rent
and plow it into an investment with a higher return than real estate.

Yes, you miss out on the tax deductions you receive as a homeowner, but
apparently there is a way to ameliorate that loss in other ways.

I'm not entirely sure how it works, but I do know a financial adviser I
knew (and trusted) 15 years ago wanted me to go this route, but I moved
so it became a moot point.

Establish a bank account for each property; giving the address on each
checking account, also the checks will be your mail address. Bring
this into an accounting software like Intuit and see your tax man and
your head doctor with that many headaches.

I just have one account for multiple properties - just note on the journal
which is for what. I have even purchased common things like office supplies,
repair material, landscape goods, etc. and don't even note which is for what
but just divided it equally amongst the properties. Done this for many
years, no headaches and no complains from the IRS so far.

The headaches comes from doing what if games on the spreadsheet as to put
what expenses where and on which forms to achieve the minimum tax payment on
the afternoon of April 15. But I have so much deprecation now that no matter
how I do the returns, I still pay no tax. Actually, I rather pay huge taxes
and have a huge cash flow.

"Kyle" wrote in message
oups.com...
wrote:
Isn't that what being a landlord is about? Why make it so nice and
spend too much money? Tenants should only be renting temporarily
anyway and try to buy a home.

Not necessarily. There are financial situations where it is better for
someone(s) to rent instead of buy a house, and take the difference
between what they'd pay on a mortgage and what they're paying in rent
and plow it into an investment with a higher return than real estate.


This situation applies in places like the Bay Area where you have over
priced houses and low rent relative to the value of the houses. Assume the
landlord just purchased a rental and if you look at his cash outflow he is
actually paying you to rent out his property! In other words, its better to
be a renter rather than a landlord until the next real estate cycle where at
some point you need to buy.


Yes, you miss out on the tax deductions you receive as a homeowner, but
apparently there is a way to ameliorate that loss in other ways.

I'm not entirely sure how it works, but I do know a financial adviser I
knew (and trusted) 15 years ago wanted me to go this route, but I moved
so it became a moot point.


There is renters' credit in California and if you have a home business that
portion used in the rental could be written off in the tax return.

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the reply Fred. It's probably an unrealistic goal. We're just
getting started, and will do it one at a time. The only thing we know for
sure is that neither of us wants to go back to 9 to 5.

--
Steve Barker


I heard of people with over a thousand investment properties in and outside
of the US. But they must have help or professionally managed. It's a full
time job just to manage the property managers.

I'll try not to get that big. G

--
Steve Barker


"# Fred #" wrote in message
. ..

I heard of people with over a thousand investment properties in and
outside of the US. But they must have help or professionally managed. It's
a full time job just to manage the property managers.

Steve Barker wrote:
I'm looking for suggestions for landlord software. Or do you just keep
records in a simple spreadsheet? We'll have probably 15 to 20 single family
houses by the end.

Check out "http://www.rent-right.com/". I used it for a while when I was
a beta tester for them. However it provided a lot more capability than I
needed, and I went back to using a spreadsheet.

thanks for the reply. I had the "rent right" demo. Then I bought the $99
quicken rental property manager on ebay for $26. I seems like it will do
more than we'll need.

--
Steve Barker

"SMS" wrote in message
...

Check out "http://www.rent-right.com/". I used it for a while when I was a
beta tester for them. However it provided a lot more capability than I
needed, and I went back to using a spreadsheet.