1) Why is it that the insturctions for dishwashing tablets, all 3
brands that I checked, say to put the tablet in the "main dispenser"?
And which is the "main dispenser"? They are the same size. How am I
know to know which is main and which isn't?

Is it the one that dispenses first? I've figured out which one that
is, but I'll be most people don't even think about it. And although
which that is is clear, somehow it seems counter-intuitive to me (not
counter-logical, just counter intuitive. And why should the one that
dispenses first be considered the main one. And which of the cups is
the main one?

2) I got some free-offer electrosol Dishwasher tablet a few years
ago, and finally used most of them. I also had a full box of powder
that I had to use before going to buy more of something.

By this time, neither Electrol nor Cascade sold the same kind of
tablets. Now they are already part liquid and come in a water soluble
bag, and they warn you not to handle the bags with wet fingers. This
was too much for me so I bought the house brand (Food Lion) They are
still tablets like Electrosol used to sell. But they don't have 2
colors (seemingly two ingredients) like the old Electrosol. I wonder
if they are as good. I wonder if the new semi-liquid things are
better. Anyone know?

If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)

I have always considered the "main" dishwasher compartment to be the one
with the cover, which dispenses second. The first one (the uncovered one) I
believe to be the pre-rinse.

By the way - I also use Electrasol - it's the only thing that gets my tea
stains off my mugs. But they do still have the actual tablets - not just
the gel stuff which I hate. Not sure where you shop but all the groceries I
shop at as well as Wal Mart still carry them - plus they are on their
website
http://www.electrasol.us/whats_new.html

"mm" wrote in message
...
1) Why is it that the insturctions for dishwashing tablets, all 3
brands that I checked, say to put the tablet in the "main dispenser"?
And which is the "main dispenser"? They are the same size. How am I
know to know which is main and which isn't?

Is it the one that dispenses first? I've figured out which one that
is, but I'll be most people don't even think about it. And although
which that is is clear, somehow it seems counter-intuitive to me (not
counter-logical, just counter intuitive. And why should the one that
dispenses first be considered the main one. And which of the cups is
the main one?

2) I got some free-offer electrosol Dishwasher tablet a few years
ago, and finally used most of them. I also had a full box of powder
that I had to use before going to buy more of something.

By this time, neither Electrol nor Cascade sold the same kind of
tablets. Now they are already part liquid and come in a water soluble
bag, and they warn you not to handle the bags with wet fingers. This
was too much for me so I bought the house brand (Food Lion) They are
still tablets like Electrosol used to sell. But they don't have 2
colors (seemingly two ingredients) like the old Electrosol. I wonder
if they are as good. I wonder if the new semi-liquid things are
better. Anyone know?

If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)

"Lady" wrote in news:rEnfh.5153$bj5.4496@trnddc07:

I have always considered the "main" dishwasher compartment to be the
one with the cover, which dispenses second. The first one (the
uncovered one) I believe to be the pre-rinse.

By the way - I also use Electrasol - it's the only thing that gets my
tea stains off my mugs. But they do still have the actual tablets -
not just the gel stuff which I hate. Not sure where you shop but all
the groceries I shop at as well as Wal Mart still carry them - plus
they are on their website
http://www.electrasol.us/whats_new.html

"mm" wrote in message
...
1) Why is it that the insturctions for dishwashing tablets, all 3
brands that I checked, say to put the tablet in the "main dispenser"?
And which is the "main dispenser"? They are the same size. How am I
know to know which is main and which isn't?

Is it the one that dispenses first? I've figured out which one that
is, but I'll be most people don't even think about it. And although
which that is is clear, somehow it seems counter-intuitive to me (not
counter-logical, just counter intuitive. And why should the one that
dispenses first be considered the main one. And which of the cups is
the main one?

2) I got some free-offer electrosol Dishwasher tablet a few years
ago, and finally used most of them. I also had a full box of powder
that I had to use before going to buy more of something.

By this time, neither Electrol nor Cascade sold the same kind of
tablets. Now they are already part liquid and come in a water
soluble bag, and they warn you not to handle the bags with wet
fingers. This was too much for me so I bought the house brand (Food
Lion) They are still tablets like Electrosol used to sell. But they
don't have 2 colors (seemingly two ingredients) like the old
Electrosol. I wonder if they are as good. I wonder if the new
semi-liquid things are better. Anyone know?

If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)




Just a somewhat related comment. Don't use any kind of powder form if you
have septic. It doesn't all dissolve. Just look at the inlet pipe next
time the tank is pumped. The ones who use powder for washing clothes
and/or/dishes have caked up crystals.

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 19:39:31 -0600, Al Bundy wrote:
Just a somewhat related comment. Don't use any kind of powder form if you
have septic. It doesn't all dissolve. Just look at the inlet pipe next
time the tank is pumped. The ones who use powder for washing clothes
and/or/dishes have caked up crystals.

that's only true if you have really really *really* hard water.

On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 01:32:07 GMT, "Lady" wrote:

I have always considered the "main" dishwasher compartment to be the one
with the cover, which dispenses second.

That sounds fair to me. From my pov, the cover makes it look more
important, "main".

The first one (the uncovered one) I
believe to be the pre-rinse.

Fair enough also. But have you realized that since, with powders, it
is intended that one put soap in both cups, meaning that it is
intended that there be washing with detergent in both cycles. And by
putting the electrosol in the cup that is covered during the first
cycle, there is very little cleaning then, not like with detergent as
was intended.

It's pretty clear to me that, to get the full cleaning effect intended
one must put the tablet in the *uncovered* cup, or into the bottom of
the dishwasher, where it will fall as soon as one shuts the door.

Now I recall that I called their 800 number years ago to inform them
that their instructions were ambiguous and likely misinterpreted by
half or more of those who used the product. I actually forget how the
conversaation went, but that's when they sent me the coupons for the
big cylinder of tablets, and a box of two plastic thimbles with spot
preventer.

So here it is at least 4 years later, and they are still ambiguous. I
thought they would change things after I called, and maybe they did.
IIRC they didn't even use the word "main" 4+ years ago, and maybe they
added the word main, but that doesn't help since no one knows which is
the main one.

Cascade, which didn't make tablets last time I read the Electrosol
instructions, and the house brand, also use the term "main".

By the way - I also use Electrasol - it's the only thing that gets my tea
stains off my mugs. But they do still have the actual tablets - not just
the gel stuff which I hate. Not sure where you shop but all the groceries I
shop at as well as Wal Mart still carry them - plus they are on their
website
http://www.electrasol.us/whats_new.html

Well, good to know. Thanks. I'll look harder next time, but I've
already opened the Food Lion box, which only has one color material.

I always wonder if there is difference in effectiveness or quality or
taste with house brands, in a lot brands, in a lot of products.

I have noticed that canned vegetables seem to have more stems or
whatever that are not very edible, than name brand vegetables, corn at
least.

"mm" wrote in message
.. .
1) Why is it that the insturctions for dishwashing tablets, all 3
brands that I checked, say to put the tablet in the "main dispenser"?
And which is the "main dispenser"? They are the same size. How am I
know to know which is main and which isn't?

Is it the one that dispenses first? I've figured out which one that
is, but I'll be most people don't even think about it. And although
which that is is clear, somehow it seems counter-intuitive to me (not
counter-logical, just counter intuitive. And why should the one that
dispenses first be considered the main one. And which of the cups is
the main one?

2) I got some free-offer electrosol Dishwasher tablet a few years
ago, and finally used most of them. I also had a full box of powder
that I had to use before going to buy more of something.

By this time, neither Electrol nor Cascade sold the same kind of
tablets. Now they are already part liquid and come in a water soluble
bag, and they warn you not to handle the bags with wet fingers. This
was too much for me so I bought the house brand (Food Lion) They are
still tablets like Electrosol used to sell. But they don't have 2
colors (seemingly two ingredients) like the old Electrosol. I wonder
if they are as good. I wonder if the new semi-liquid things are
better. Anyone know?

If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)

It's pretty clear to me that, to get the full cleaning effect intended
one must put the tablet in the *uncovered* cup, or into the bottom of
the dishwasher, where it will fall as soon as one shuts the door.

Maybe so; but that's not what the instructions say to do.

I pick up a package of those tablets to keep around: they don't take much
space and they are insurance when I run out of the cheap powder I usually
use. (God bless Dollar General).

For my dishes and pans I get the best results by using the extra long
"Pre-Wash" cycle on my machine. It's the equivalent of soaking the dishes
in detergent water for 20 or more minutes. With the tablets there would
not be any detergent in that first, long cycle.

On 12/11/06 07:01 pm mm wrote:

1) Why is it that the insturctions for dishwashing tablets, all 3
brands that I checked, say to put the tablet in the "main dispenser"?
And which is the "main dispenser"? They are the same size. How am I
know to know which is main and which isn't?

Is it the one that dispenses first? I've figured out which one that
is, but I'll be most people don't even think about it. And although
which that is is clear, somehow it seems counter-intuitive to me (not
counter-logical, just counter intuitive. And why should the one that
dispenses first be considered the main one. And which of the cups is
the main one?

2) I got some free-offer electrosol Dishwasher tablet a few years
ago, and finally used most of them. I also had a full box of powder
that I had to use before going to buy more of something.

By this time, neither Electrol nor Cascade sold the same kind of
tablets. Now they are already part liquid and come in a water soluble
bag, and they warn you not to handle the bags with wet fingers. This
was too much for me so I bought the house brand (Food Lion) They are
still tablets like Electrosol used to sell. But they don't have 2
colors (seemingly two ingredients) like the old Electrosol. I wonder
if they are as good. I wonder if the new semi-liquid things are
better. Anyone know?


AIUI, the "main" cup is the one from which detergent is released for the
"wash" phase, rather than the one from which detergent is released for
the "pre-wash" phase. The cup for the pre-wash phase may be smaller than
the other; it may not have a cover at all; or it may have a cover with
holes in it.

I have never used dishwashing tablets, as I see no convenient way of
adjusting the amount of the product to take account of water hardness or
the size of the load or the condition of the dishes (Were they rinsed?
Were they left sitting out overnight? How dirty are they?). The
instructions for our new dishwasher suggest a wide range of (powdered)
detergent quantity for each cup, depending on how dirty things are and
how hard the water is.

Perce

John Gilmer wrote:
It's pretty clear to me that, to get the full cleaning effect intended
one must put the tablet in the *uncovered* cup, or into the bottom of
the dishwasher, where it will fall as soon as one shuts the door.

I have always consider the "miain cup" to be the covered one that opens
during the wash cycle. For this reason, I only use the free sample
tablets when I am out of powder. However, you raise an interesting
point - if the tablet falls to the bottom as soon as the door is shut,
then there should be some detergent to use during the pre-wash cycle.
Now I'll need to do a test to see if there is actually any of the
tablet left after the pre-wash cycle if I use the open cup. If so, then
that ay be the correct place to put it. If not, then we have two
choices: no detergent during pre-wash or no detergent during main wash.

Maybe so; but that's not what the instructions say to do.

I pick up a package of those tablets to keep around: they don't take much
space and they are insurance when I run out of the cheap powder I usually
use. (God bless Dollar General).

As noted earlier, I basically do the same thing except I don't buy
them. I just use the fre samples and I always seem to have a couple
lying around.


For my dishes and pans I get the best results by using the extra long
"Pre-Wash" cycle on my machine. It's the equivalent of soaking the dishes
in detergent water for 20 or more minutes.

Please explain this further. I think calling it "equivalent of soaking
the dishes
in detergent water for 20 or more minutes." might be a bit of an
exaggeration. I don't know what your dishwasher does during this cycle,
but I can't imagine that spraying them for any length of time would do
as good a job as immersing them in detergent water for 20 minutes.
Soaking is much more powerful than even a constant, lengthy rinse.

Slightly OT - We transfer our powder detergent into a plastic juice
container - one of the kinds with a handle and a top with a slotted
spout. We find that we have much more control when pouring the
detergent, especially when we buy the extra extra large boxes of powder.

Please explain this further. I think calling it "equivalent of soaking
the dishes
in detergent water for 20 or more minutes." might be a bit of an
exaggeration. I don't know what your dishwasher does during this cycle,
but I can't imagine that spraying them for any length of time would do
as good a job as immersing them in detergent water for 20 minutes.

Well, the dishes (and pans) are kept WET for the entire length of the cycle
and there is a little mechanical action as well. I believe if anything
it's BETTER than just soaking them in detergent water. The only difference
is than when you fill a baking dish with detergent water you tend to be a
little heavy handed with the detergent. But you can be "heavy handed" with
the dishwashing detergent too (that's why I stick with the $2/big box stuff
from Dollar General or clone.)

Soaking is much more powerful than even a constant, lengthy rinse.

You can say that but it doesn't make sense. With a still water "soak," the
water next to the soil gets loaded up and you have to depend upon diffusion
to bring in fresh solution and take out the grease/oil soil. With a spray,
you are continually replacing the loaded up solution with "fresh."

You can, however, "soak" overnight. I'm limited to about 20/25/30 minutes
(never actually timed it) with the dishwasher.


Slightly OT - We transfer our powder detergent into a plastic juice
container - one of the kinds with a handle and a top with a slotted
spout. We find that we have much more control when pouring the
detergent, especially when we buy the extra extra large boxes of powder.

Well, since I want to be a little heavy handed with the stuff and since I
fill both cups at the same time, I don't worry about "control."

As I recall, all the dishwasher instructions I have read indicate that
the main detergent goes into the covered dispenser, where it will be
released for the main wash cycles. The uncovered cup is for optional
additional detergent for the first cycle, to be used if dishes are
extra dirty. If you only put detergent there, it will likely be gone
before the main washing cycles. Plus, at least on some DW, the second
one is smaller than the main.

As far as merits of tablets, powder, etc, Consumer Reports testing
concluded that the main difference with the ones that did the best job
was that they all contained enzymes.

Dear Dirty Dad03,

John Gilmer (if he's not woman, should be) is absolutely correct.

The new dishwashers run 2 - 3 hours depending on the features. I love
heavy wash, sanitize, extra hot water, extra soak, etc. You paid for
those features, USE THEM.

I use only powder (or gel) because of those extra cycles. My dishes
look better than new, but I invest the time each washing.


DerbyDad03 wrote:
John Gilmer wrote:
It's pretty clear to me that, to get the full cleaning effect intended
one must put the tablet in the *uncovered* cup, or into the bottom of
the dishwasher, where it will fall as soon as one shuts the door.

I have always consider the "miain cup" to be the covered one that opens
during the wash cycle. For this reason, I only use the free sample
tablets when I am out of powder. However, you raise an interesting
point - if the tablet falls to the bottom as soon as the door is shut,
then there should be some detergent to use during the pre-wash cycle.
Now I'll need to do a test to see if there is actually any of the
tablet left after the pre-wash cycle if I use the open cup. If so, then
that ay be the correct place to put it. If not, then we have two
choices: no detergent during pre-wash or no detergent during main wash.

Maybe so; but that's not what the instructions say to do.

I pick up a package of those tablets to keep around: they don't take much
space and they are insurance when I run out of the cheap powder I usually
use. (God bless Dollar General).

As noted earlier, I basically do the same thing except I don't buy
them. I just use the fre samples and I always seem to have a couple
lying around.


For my dishes and pans I get the best results by using the extra long
"Pre-Wash" cycle on my machine. It's the equivalent of soaking the dishes
in detergent water for 20 or more minutes.

Please explain this further. I think calling it "equivalent of soaking
the dishes
in detergent water for 20 or more minutes." might be a bit of an
exaggeration. I don't know what your dishwasher does during this cycle,
but I can't imagine that spraying them for any length of time would do
as good a job as immersing them in detergent water for 20 minutes.
Soaking is much more powerful than even a constant, lengthy rinse.

Slightly OT - We transfer our powder detergent into a plastic juice
container - one of the kinds with a handle and a top with a slotted
spout. We find that we have much more control when pouring the
detergent, especially when we buy the extra extra large boxes of powder.

AZ Nomad wrote in
:

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 19:39:31 -0600, Al Bundy
wrote:
Just a somewhat related comment. Don't use any kind of powder form if
you have septic. It doesn't all dissolve. Just look at the inlet pipe
next time the tank is pumped. The ones who use powder for washing
clothes and/or/dishes have caked up crystals.

that's only true if you have really really *really* hard water.


Not sure if I buy into that. When I had a septic in a house I was the
original owner in and had the tank pumped, the septic guy showed me the
crystals at the inlet pipe. I had a large fish tank and that required me to
test the water for PH, total alkalinity and hardness. Nothing needed very
much adjustment when doing water changes over the many years I had the
tank.

We all have our belief systems :-) Thanks for the reply.

On 12 Dec 2006 08:39:14 -0800, wrote:

Dear Dirty Dad03,

John Gilmer (if he's not woman, should be) is absolutely correct.

The new dishwashers run 2 - 3 hours depending on the features. I love
heavy wash, sanitize, extra hot water, extra soak, etc. You paid for
those features, USE THEM.

I would but my washer is 27 years old and has two washes and a rinse,
iirc, and then drying, which has a switch so one can turn off the heat
during drying. So if I'm there, I open it up after the rinse so it
will dry faster with fresh air, while the dishes and water are still
hot.

Total of about 45 minutes, without drying.

The machine has never broken, except once when the thin chicken bone**
next to the drumstick got caught in the antisiphon device (I still
don't know why that kept it from draining the washer, but the moment I
removed the bone, the thing worked again. (I had spent maybe 90
minutes to 2 hours checking the pump and all the the other hoses.

**I don't pre-wash the dishes, and that's on purpose. But I don't
even take off all the food and that's probably laziness. Still,
only one problem in 23 years***, 2 hours to fix, I think I'm ahead of
the game.

***Another guy owned the house the first 4 years)

I use only powder (or gel) because of those extra cycles. My dishes
look better than new, but I invest the time each washing.


If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)

On 12 Dec 2006 08:10:12 -0800, wrote:

As I recall, all the dishwasher instructions I have read indicate that
the main detergent goes into the covered dispenser, where it will be
released for the main wash cycles. The uncovered cup is for optional
additional detergent for the first cycle, to be used if dishes are
extra dirty. If you only put detergent there, it will likely be gone
before the main washing cycles. Plus, at least on some DW, the second
one is smaller than the main.

Well, mine are the same size. In a way the "main" one (You've
convinced me, plus I looked at the package again, which shows a
picture of one with a rotating cover for the main one), in a way the
main one is smaller, because I can fill the one with no cover to
overflowing, but I have to remove soap sometimes in order to close the
Main one.

It looks like I've been doing things wrong. I was confused becuase
the Electrosol are two colors, and I figured they wouldn't degrade
performance from the original, so some soap came off in the first wash
and some in the second. But if it doesn't work that way, and I'll
check too eventually, I'm going to put two tablets in.

Once when I first got here, I don't think I had any stuff, so I used
powdered laundry detergent, in both cups. I also left the house.
Just like an I Love Lucy episode, the kitchen was covered with bubbles
when I got home. In some places 8 inches of bubbles.

As far as merits of tablets, powder, etc, Consumer Reports testing
concluded that the main difference with the ones that did the best job
was that they all contained enzymes.

I didn't really believe there were enzymes in this or laundry soap,
until I heard stories of workers getting sick, or risking getting
sick.

If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)

On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 19:48:18 -0600, Al Bundy
wrote:

AZ Nomad wrote in
:

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 19:39:31 -0600, Al Bundy
wrote:
Just a somewhat related comment. Don't use any kind of powder form if
you have septic. It doesn't all dissolve. Just look at the inlet pipe
next time the tank is pumped. The ones who use powder for washing
clothes and/or/dishes have caked up crystals.

that's only true if you have really really *really* hard water.


Not sure if I buy into that. When I had a septic in a house I was the
original owner in and had the tank pumped, the septic guy showed me the
crystals at the inlet pipe. I had a large fish tank and that required me to
test the water for PH, total alkalinity and hardness. Nothing needed very
much adjustment when doing water changes over the many years I had the
tank.

There is always someone in these arguments who has facts. I hate
that.

We all have our belief systems :-) Thanks for the reply.

Well, I guess as long as it's not the government interfering with
someone's beliefs, maybe it's ok.

If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)

On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 12:43:52 -0500, mm
wrote:

On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 19:48:18 -0600, Al Bundy
wrote:

AZ Nomad wrote in
:

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 19:39:31 -0600, Al Bundy
wrote:
Just a somewhat related comment. Don't use any kind of powder form if
you have septic. It doesn't all dissolve. Just look at the inlet pipe
next time the tank is pumped. The ones who use powder for washing
clothes and/or/dishes have caked up crystals.

that's only true if you have really really *really* hard water.


Not sure if I buy into that. When I had a septic in a house I was the
original owner in and had the tank pumped, the septic guy showed me the
crystals at the inlet pipe. I had a large fish tank and that required me to
test the water for PH, total alkalinity and hardness. Nothing needed very
much adjustment when doing water changes over the many years I had the
tank.

There is always someone in these arguments who has facts. I hate
that.

We all have our belief systems :-) Thanks for the reply.

Well, I guess as long as it's not the government interfering with
someone's beliefs, maybe it's ok.

Duh? You hadn't noticed what the Bushies were doing for the
last six years?

For just ONE example out of thousands: They give our tax
money to Jesus freaks who run programs in prison that
give luxurious privileges to inmates who sign up for their
belief system.

mm wrote in
:

On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 19:48:18 -0600, Al Bundy
wrote:

AZ Nomad wrote in
:

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 19:39:31 -0600, Al Bundy
wrote:
Just a somewhat related comment. Don't use any kind of powder form
if you have septic. It doesn't all dissolve. Just look at the inlet
pipe next time the tank is pumped. The ones who use powder for
washing clothes and/or/dishes have caked up crystals.

that's only true if you have really really *really* hard water.


Not sure if I buy into that. When I had a septic in a house I was the
original owner in and had the tank pumped, the septic guy showed me
the crystals at the inlet pipe. I had a large fish tank and that
required me to test the water for PH, total alkalinity and hardness.
Nothing needed very much adjustment when doing water changes over the
many years I had the tank.

There is always someone in these arguments who has facts. I hate
that.

LOL! As Gilda uses to say, "It just goes to show ya. It's always
sum'tin."

Always possible the septic guy was full of **** ;-)


We all have our belief systems :-) Thanks for the reply.

Well, I guess as long as it's not the government interfering with
someone's beliefs, maybe it's ok.

If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)

Oh pshaw, on Mon 11 Dec 2006 05:01:44p, mm meant to say...

1) Why is it that the insturctions for dishwashing tablets, all 3
brands that I checked, say to put the tablet in the "main dispenser"?
And which is the "main dispenser"? They are the same size. How am I
know to know which is main and which isn't?

Is it the one that dispenses first? I've figured out which one that
is, but I'll be most people don't even think about it. And although
which that is is clear, somehow it seems counter-intuitive to me (not
counter-logical, just counter intuitive. And why should the one that
dispenses first be considered the main one. And which of the cups is
the main one?

2) I got some free-offer electrosol Dishwasher tablet a few years
ago, and finally used most of them. I also had a full box of powder
that I had to use before going to buy more of something.

By this time, neither Electrol nor Cascade sold the same kind of
tablets. Now they are already part liquid and come in a water soluble
bag, and they warn you not to handle the bags with wet fingers. This
was too much for me so I bought the house brand (Food Lion) They are
still tablets like Electrosol used to sell. But they don't have 2
colors (seemingly two ingredients) like the old Electrosol. I wonder
if they are as good. I wonder if the new semi-liquid things are
better. Anyone know?

If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)

All dishwasher detergents that come in tablets or gel-pacs are recommended
to be placed in the "main" detergent cup, which is the one that is covered.
The open cup is for a "pre-wash" cycle, which is a relatively short cycle
at the beginning of the wash.

For years I used powedered deterent, either Electrasol or Cascade.
However, when we moved to another location where the water chemistry was
much different, I began getting some bad deposits on everything I washed.

I switched to the Electrasol tablets and have found it to give a creditable
wash, but sometimes found that there was a bit of an oily residue left on
the dishes. In other words, not "squeaky clean". I attribute that to the
lack of detergent in the pre-wash cycle, which would dissolve most of the
greasy stuff on the dishes and drain it away before the main wash kicked
in.

Someone recommended trying a bottled gel made by Palmolive to use in both
the pre-wash and main cups. Since it contains baking soda, I found that it
left a whitish residue (from the baking soda, no doubt), and that wasn't
acceptable.

The next time I bought detergent they were temporarily out of the solid
tables of Electrasol so I bought the Electrasol gel-pacs instead. They
worked just as well as the solid tablets, but still didn't leave things
speaky clean.

Since I had most of a bottle of the Palmolive still left, I tried filling
the open cup about 1/4-1/2 full of the Palmolive and using a gel-pac in the
main wash. Now I get absolutely spotless and squeaky clean dishes. I will
continue this method.

--
Wayne Boatwright
__________________________________________________

One thing about pain: It proves you're alive.

AIUI, the "main" cup is the one from which detergent is released for the
"wash" phase, rather than the one from which detergent is released for the
"pre-wash" phase. The cup for the pre-wash phase may be smaller than the
other; it may not have a cover at all; or it may have a cover with holes
in it.

On my 8 -- 10 year old GE dishwasher "Main detergent cup for all wash
cycles" is embossed in the plastic door liner with an arrow pointing at the
detergent recess with a cover.

SJF

On 15 Dec 2006 06:44:44 +0200, Wayne Boatwright
wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com wrote:

Oh pshaw, on Mon 11 Dec 2006 05:01:44p, mm meant to say...

1) Why is it that the insturctions for dishwashing tablets, all 3
brands that I checked, say to put the tablet in the "main dispenser"?
And which is the "main dispenser"? They are the same size. How am I
know to know which is main and which isn't?

Is it the one that dispenses first? I've figured out which one that
is, but I'll be most people don't even think about it. And although
which that is is clear, somehow it seems counter-intuitive to me (not
counter-logical, just counter intuitive. And why should the one that
dispenses first be considered the main one. And which of the cups is
the main one?

2) I got some free-offer electrosol Dishwasher tablet a few years
ago, and finally used most of them. I also had a full box of powder
that I had to use before going to buy more of something.

By this time, neither Electrol nor Cascade sold the same kind of
tablets. Now they are already part liquid and come in a water soluble
bag, and they warn you not to handle the bags with wet fingers. This
was too much for me so I bought the house brand (Food Lion) They are
still tablets like Electrosol used to sell. But they don't have 2
colors (seemingly two ingredients) like the old Electrosol. I wonder
if they are as good. I wonder if the new semi-liquid things are
better. Anyone know?

If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)

All dishwasher detergents that come in tablets or gel-pacs are recommended
to be placed in the "main" detergent cup, which is the one that is covered.
The open cup is for a "pre-wash" cycle, which is a relatively short cycle
at the beginning of the wash.

I may just be confusing my dishwasher with my clothes washer, but I
thought in my 27-year-old machine, the first cycle was as long as the
second. I'll have to do another load, or at least look at the knob.
Soon.

For years I used powedered deterent, either Electrasol or Cascade.
However, when we moved to another location where the water chemistry was
much different, I began getting some bad deposits on everything I washed.

I switched to the Electrasol tablets and have found it to give a creditable
wash, but sometimes found that there was a bit of an oily residue left on
the dishes. In other words, not "squeaky clean".

DAng. I have long depended on my dishes for squeaking.

I attribute that to the
lack of detergent in the pre-wash cycle, which would dissolve most of the
greasy stuff on the dishes and drain it away before the main wash kicked
in.

Someone recommended trying a bottled gel made by Palmolive to use in both
the pre-wash and main cups. Since it contains baking soda, I found that it
left a whitish residue (from the baking soda, no doubt), and that wasn't
acceptable.

The next time I bought detergent they were temporarily out of the solid
tables of Electrasol so I bought the Electrasol gel-pacs instead. They
worked just as well as the solid tablets, but still didn't leave things
speaky clean.

Since I had most of a bottle of the Palmolive still left, I tried filling
the open cup about 1/4-1/2 full of the Palmolive and using a gel-pac in the
main wash. Now I get absolutely spotless and squeaky clean dishes. I will
continue this method.

Wow.

Although I could go straight to this method and probably get the
results you did, that is not my style. I will have to examine all
facets of the process, and then maybe do what you are doing. I'm not
being funny. I only fill the washer about once a week, so the
required study will take a long time. I'll try to get back to you
all.

If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)

On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 20:52:21 -0800, "SJF" wrote:

AIUI, the "main" cup is the one from which detergent is released for the
"wash" phase, rather than the one from which detergent is released for the
"pre-wash" phase. The cup for the pre-wash phase may be smaller than the
other; it may not have a cover at all; or it may have a cover with holes
in it.

On my 8 -- 10 year old GE dishwasher "Main detergent cup for all wash
cycles" is embossed in the plastic door liner with an arrow pointing at the
detergent recess with a cover.

Whichever it is, my main cup is incognito. Maybe it is in the Kenmore
tradition, where they don't tell you who made their product.

SJF



If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)

Lady wrote:
I have always considered the "main" dishwasher compartment to be the one
with the cover, which dispenses second. The first one (the uncovered one) I
believe to be the pre-rinse.

By the way - I also use Electrasol - it's the only thing that gets my tea
stains off my mugs. But they do still have the actual tablets - not just
the gel stuff which I hate. Not sure where you shop but all the groceries I
shop at as well as Wal Mart still carry them - plus they are on their
website
http://www.electrasol.us/whats_new.html

Consumer Reports did a test on dishwasher detergent a few months back.
The gel types are not as good, because they can't stabilize enzymes in
the gel state, so only the dry types have enzymes, which make a
difference. They liked Cascade and the Walmart house brand. Last time
they tested a couple of years back, they actually liked the Walmart
house brand better than anything, including Cascade. Of course, it
seems to me that every house and washer has different conditions, so
what works best for egg yolk in a two year old Maytag with hard water
may be different than what works on bacon grease in a ten year old
Whirlpool with soft water....

Yes, you're right.

There have been no improvements in dishwashers in 27 yrs.

Older is better.


mm wrote:
On 12 Dec 2006 08:39:14 -0800, wrote:

Dear Dirty Dad03,

John Gilmer (if he's not woman, should be) is absolutely correct.

The new dishwashers run 2 - 3 hours depending on the features. I love
heavy wash, sanitize, extra hot water, extra soak, etc. You paid for
those features, USE THEM.

I would but my washer is 27 years old and has two washes and a rinse,
iirc, and then drying, which has a switch so one can turn off the heat
during drying. So if I'm there, I open it up after the rinse so it
will dry faster with fresh air, while the dishes and water are still
hot.

Total of about 45 minutes, without drying.

The machine has never broken, except once when the thin chicken bone**
next to the drumstick got caught in the antisiphon device (I still
don't know why that kept it from draining the washer, but the moment I
removed the bone, the thing worked again. (I had spent maybe 90
minutes to 2 hours checking the pump and all the the other hoses.

**I don't pre-wash the dishes, and that's on purpose. But I don't
even take off all the food and that's probably laziness. Still,
only one problem in 23 years***, 2 hours to fix, I think I'm ahead of
the game.

***Another guy owned the house the first 4 years)

I use only powder (or gel) because of those extra cycles. My dishes
look better than new, but I invest the time each washing.


If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)

Yes, you're right.

There have been no improvements in dishwashers in 27 yrs.

Older is better.


mm wrote:
On 12 Dec 2006 08:39:14 -0800, wrote:

Dear Dirty Dad03,

John Gilmer (if he's not woman, should be) is absolutely correct.

The new dishwashers run 2 - 3 hours depending on the features. I love
heavy wash, sanitize, extra hot water, extra soak, etc. You paid for
those features, USE THEM.

I would but my washer is 27 years old and has two washes and a rinse,
iirc, and then drying, which has a switch so one can turn off the heat
during drying. So if I'm there, I open it up after the rinse so it
will dry faster with fresh air, while the dishes and water are still
hot.

Total of about 45 minutes, without drying.

The machine has never broken, except once when the thin chicken bone**
next to the drumstick got caught in the antisiphon device (I still
don't know why that kept it from draining the washer, but the moment I
removed the bone, the thing worked again. (I had spent maybe 90
minutes to 2 hours checking the pump and all the the other hoses.

**I don't pre-wash the dishes, and that's on purpose. But I don't
even take off all the food and that's probably laziness. Still,
only one problem in 23 years***, 2 hours to fix, I think I'm ahead of
the game.

***Another guy owned the house the first 4 years)

I use only powder (or gel) because of those extra cycles. My dishes
look better than new, but I invest the time each washing.


If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)

On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 15:01:28 -0500, mm
wrote:

I may just be confusing my dishwasher with my clothes washer, but I
thought in my 27-year-old machine, the first cycle was as long as the
second. I'll have to do another load, or at least look at the knob.
Soon.

No wonder you keep breaking the dishes.
BG

On 15 Dec 2006 14:24:38 -0800, wrote:

Yes, you're right.

There have been no improvements in dishwashers in 27 yrs.

I read my post again, and I don't think I said that.

Older is better.

But you've convinced me.



mm wrote:
On 12 Dec 2006 08:39:14 -0800, wrote:

Dear Dirty Dad03,

John Gilmer (if he's not woman, should be) is absolutely correct.

The new dishwashers run 2 - 3 hours depending on the features. I love
heavy wash, sanitize, extra hot water, extra soak, etc. You paid for
those features, USE THEM.

I would but my washer is 27 years old and has two washes and a rinse,
iirc, and then drying, which has a switch so one can turn off the heat
during drying. So if I'm there, I open it up after the rinse so it
will dry faster with fresh air, while the dishes and water are still
hot.

Total of about 45 minutes, without drying.

The machine has never broken, except once when the thin chicken bone**
next to the drumstick got caught in the antisiphon device (I still
don't know why that kept it from draining the washer, but the moment I
removed the bone, the thing worked again. (I had spent maybe 90
minutes to 2 hours checking the pump and all the the other hoses.

**I don't pre-wash the dishes, and that's on purpose. But I don't
even take off all the food and that's probably laziness. Still,
only one problem in 23 years***, 2 hours to fix, I think I'm ahead of
the game.

***Another guy owned the house the first 4 years)

I use only powder (or gel) because of those extra cycles. My dishes
look better than new, but I invest the time each washing.


If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)


If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)

On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 17:56:48 -0600, GWB wrote:

On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 15:01:28 -0500, mm
wrote:

I may just be confusing my dishwasher with my clothes washer, but I
thought in my 27-year-old machine, the first cycle was as long as the
second. I'll have to do another load, or at least look at the knob.
Soon.

No wonder you keep breaking the dishes.
BG

LOL

If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)

I have a number of very tall ( 20') windows that I need to wash (outside).
What is the most efficient way of doing this?

On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 21:18:02 -0600, "janerene"
wrote:

I have a number of very tall ( 20') windows that I need to wash (outside).
What is the most efficient way of doing this?

They sell a product that screws to the end of a garden hose. I bought
it but haven't trie dit yet. Anyone know?

If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)

On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 13:42:33 -0800, aspasia wrote:

On Wed, 13 Dec 2006 12:43:52 -0500, mm
wrote:

On Tue, 12 Dec 2006 19:48:18 -0600, Al Bundy
wrote:

AZ Nomad wrote in
:

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006 19:39:31 -0600, Al Bundy
wrote:
Just a somewhat related comment. Don't use any kind of powder form if
you have septic. It doesn't all dissolve. Just look at the inlet pipe
next time the tank is pumped. The ones who use powder for washing
clothes and/or/dishes have caked up crystals.

that's only true if you have really really *really* hard water.


Not sure if I buy into that. When I had a septic in a house I was the
original owner in and had the tank pumped, the septic guy showed me the
crystals at the inlet pipe. I had a large fish tank and that required me to
test the water for PH, total alkalinity and hardness. Nothing needed very
much adjustment when doing water changes over the many years I had the
tank.

There is always someone in these arguments who has facts. I hate
that.

We all have our belief systems :-) Thanks for the reply.

Well, I guess as long as it's not the government interfering with
someone's beliefs, maybe it's ok.

Duh? You hadn't noticed what the Bushies were doing for the
last six years?

Yes, I have noticed. I was talking about one poster to this group
interfering with the beliefs of another poster. Because I was
replying to Al, and I thought that's what he was talking about.

For just ONE example out of thousands: They give our tax
money to Jesus freaks who run programs in prison that
give luxurious privileges to inmates who sign up for their
belief system.

Yes, I know about that, and it's terrible. Both halves. Wasn't that
case heard by the Supreme Court in the past week. You used to be able
to count on the court to do the right thing most of the time, but not
so much anymore.


If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)

Oh pshaw, on Sat 16 Dec 2006 01:56:20a, mm meant to say...

On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 21:18:02 -0600, "janerene"
wrote:

I have a number of very tall ( 20') windows that I need to wash (outside).
What is the most efficient way of doing this?

They sell a product that screws to the end of a garden hose. I bought
it but haven't trie dit yet. Anyone know?

If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)

I had one of those when we had a 2-story home. It had a very long pole/pipe,
and it actually work quite well, although the length could be a little
unwieldly.

-
Wayne Boatwright
__________________________________________________

Of all forms of caution, caution in love is the
most fatal.

On 17 Dec 2006 06:59:58 +0200, Wayne Boatwright
wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com wrote:

Oh pshaw, on Sat 16 Dec 2006 01:56:20a, mm meant to say...

On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 21:18:02 -0600, "janerene"
wrote:

I have a number of very tall ( 20') windows that I need to wash (outside).
What is the most efficient way of doing this?

They sell a product that screws to the end of a garden hose. I bought
it but haven't trie dit yet. Anyone know?

I had one of those when we had a 2-story home. It had a very long pole/pipe,
and it actually work quite well, although the length could be a little
unwieldly.

Not what I have. My pipe from the garden hose to the end is only 7
inches. It uses water pressure to get the stream up to the windows.

If it doesn't work, I'll consider looking for yours. Although it is
possible to wash my windows from inside, by leaning out with a
sponge/squeegee or something, it seemed easier to do it this way, or
maybe your way.
-
Wayne Boatwright


If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)