I have a gravel driveway with approximate dimensions of 40 feet x 60
feet. I have friend who has several dump trunks full of asphalt
millings. I would like to excavate the gravel and dirt and put down 4
to 6 inches of the millings. I have access to rollers and compactors
that I'll use while putting it down.

My question: Is there any product available that would help in bonding
the material when I put it down? Or are the retailer sealers adequate?

I have seen mention of emulsifiers that can be added but if anyone
knows of something that would be available at the retail level, that
would be great.

wrote:
I have a gravel driveway with approximate dimensions of 40 feet x 60
feet. I have friend who has several dump trunks full of asphalt
millings. I would like to excavate the gravel and dirt and put down 4
to 6 inches of the millings. I have access to rollers and compactors
that I'll use while putting it down.

My question: Is there any product available that would help in bonding
the material when I put it down? Or are the retailer sealers adequate?

I have seen mention of emulsifiers that can be added but if anyone
knows of something that would be available at the retail level, that
would be great.


Home made asphalt? Sounds a little risky.......I'd do a test batch
about 3' x 3' to make sure it works before I committed to a ~40 yds
potential disaster

How much sealer will you need? Again, a trial batch help answer these
questions

I'm thinking you'd need 100's of gallons.

cheers
Bob

BobK207 wrote:
wrote:
Home made asphalt? Sounds a little risky.......I'd do a test batch
about 3' x 3' to make sure it works before I committed to a ~40 yds
potential disaster

Thanks Bob,

We are already committed to the millings and have no problems using it
just compacted. I wouldn't call it home made ashpalt. Just looking
for a way to cut down on all the loose gravel. W've used the millings
on a couple of driveways, compacted it well and it works just fine.
Typically longer driveways and the millings are a lot better then
gravel.

On this particular driveway, my son in law was wondering about seal
coating or some other substance to keep the excess gravel down and
would that, or something else, help to bond the millings.


How much sealer will you need? Again, a trial batch help answer these
questions

I'm thinking you'd need 100's of gallons.

cheers
Bob

wrote:
I have a gravel driveway with approximate dimensions of 40 feet x 60
feet. I have friend who has several dump trunks full of asphalt
millings. I would like to excavate the gravel and dirt and put down 4
to 6 inches of the millings. I have access to rollers and compactors
that I'll use while putting it down.

My question: Is there any product available that would help in bonding
the material when I put it down? Or are the retailer sealers adequate?

I have seen mention of emulsifiers that can be added but if anyone
knows of something that would be available at the retail level, that
would be great.

I'd look for one of the contractors who does "original-style" macadam
paving,
with sprayer for liquid asphalt. Layer of stone, spray asphalt, top
layer of stone.

Sealer ain't gonna bond anything for long.

HTH,
J

According to webber1998 :

BobK207 wrote:
wrote:
Home made asphalt? Sounds a little risky.......I'd do a test batch
about 3' x 3' to make sure it works before I committed to a ~40 yds
potential disaster

Thanks Bob,

We are already committed to the millings and have no problems using it
just compacted. I wouldn't call it home made ashpalt. Just looking
for a way to cut down on all the loose gravel. W've used the millings
on a couple of driveways, compacted it well and it works just fine.
Typically longer driveways and the millings are a lot better then
gravel.

On this particular driveway, my son in law was wondering about seal
coating or some other substance to keep the excess gravel down and
would that, or something else, help to bond the millings.

Out of curiousity, I looked it up and found this:

http://www.state.nj.us/dep/dshw/rrtp/amgd.htm

[New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection Guidelines]

See section F3 and F4.

Basically, "loose" and "simple compaction" aren't permitted.

A binder (they mention "liquid asphalt" - this isn't driveway
sealer) or heat (essentially using it in a "normal" paving process
- provided that there's enough asphalt in the "millings").
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

Sealer ain't gonna bond anything for long.

HTH,
J

yeah and cost more than asphalt too.

hot tar is the way to go

hot tar is the way to go

I think I would be perfectly happy with compacting and rolling the
millings. I'm not looking for perfection. If I was, I'd just hire
someone to pave it.

Thanks again. !

I have friend who has several dump trunks full of asphalt
millings. I would like to excavate the gravel and dirt and put down 4
to 6 inches of the millings.

By "millings" you mean old waste asphaltic concrete from scarifiers?
"Asphalt" is petroleum tar, not asphaltic concrete (asphalt plus
gravel).

That recycled stuff is basically a low-quality gravel, weak and brittle,
that can only be used in small proportions in new paving material for
the sake of getting rid of it. And that has to be done by lots of heat
and mixing with fresh asphalt in a big mixing plant. Not something you
can accomplish in your driveway.

There's a reason this old material was torn up. It's no good for paving
any more. You might as well try to pave with kitty litter or bread
crumbs.

My question: Is there any product available that would help in
bonding the material when I put it down?

Yeah, it's called asphalt. See above.

Or are the retailer sealers adequate?

You mean the water emulsions of asphalt? Forget it.

Richard J Kinch spake thus:

I have friend who has several dump trunks full of asphalt
millings. I would like to excavate the gravel and dirt and put down 4
to 6 inches of the millings.

By "millings" you mean old waste asphaltic concrete from scarifiers?
"Asphalt" is petroleum tar, not asphaltic concrete (asphalt plus
gravel).

That recycled stuff is basically a low-quality gravel, weak and brittle,
that can only be used in small proportions in new paving material for
the sake of getting rid of it. And that has to be done by lots of heat
and mixing with fresh asphalt in a big mixing plant. Not something you
can accomplish in your driveway.

There's a reason this old material was torn up. It's no good for paving
any more. You might as well try to pave with kitty litter or bread
crumbs.

The OP said he's used it before and it worked well. Why shouldn't we
take his word for it?


--
Napoleon won the battle of Waterloo. The German Wehrmacht won World War
II. The United States won in Vietnam, and the Soviets in Afghanistan.
The Zealots won against the Romans, and Ehud Olmert won the Second
Lebanon War.

- Uri Avnery, Israeli peace activist
(http://counterpunch.org/avnery09022006.html)

Richard J Kinch wrote:

There's a reason this old material was torn up. It's no good for paving
any more. You might as well try to pave with kitty litter or bread
crumbs.

Have you ever tried it?

The county was tearing up the "asphalt" road in front of my home. I
talked the crew into dumping and rolling of load of at the end of my
gravel drive. No special prep, no sealers, no nothing - just dump it,
spread it, and roll it down.

Looks great, wears like iron. Wish they'd done the whole 200 feet.

Ether Jones writes:

No special prep, no sealers, no nothing - just dump it,
spread it, and roll it down.

For loose gravel, OK.

The OP was trying to improvise some kind of concrete from it.

Richard J Kinch spake thus:

Ether Jones writes:

No special prep, no sealers, no nothing - just dump it,
spread it, and roll it down.

For loose gravel, OK.

The OP was trying to improvise some kind of concrete from it.

I don't think so; what they said was "[I've] used the millings
on a couple of driveways, compacted it well and it works just fine.".


--
Napoleon won the battle of Waterloo. The German Wehrmacht won World War
II. The United States won in Vietnam, and the Soviets in Afghanistan.
The Zealots won against the Romans, and Ehud Olmert won the Second
Lebanon War.

- Uri Avnery, Israeli peace activist
(http://counterpunch.org/avnery09022006.html)

Richard J Kinch wrote:
I have friend who has several dump trunks full of asphalt
millings. I would like to excavate the gravel and dirt and put down 4
to 6 inches of the millings.

By "millings" you mean old waste asphaltic concrete from scarifiers?
"Asphalt" is petroleum tar, not asphaltic concrete (asphalt plus
gravel).

That recycled stuff is basically a low-quality gravel, weak and brittle,
that can only be used in small proportions in new paving material for
the sake of getting rid of it. And that has to be done by lots of heat
and mixing with fresh asphalt in a big mixing plant. Not something you
can accomplish in your driveway.

There's a reason this old material was torn up. It's no good for paving
any more. You might as well try to pave with kitty litter or bread
crumbs.

LOL.....re-read my original post.



My question: Is there any product available that would help in
bonding the material when I put it down?

Yeah, it's called asphalt. See above.

Must be in the asphalt business.

A pretty asphalt driveway and parking area is NOT what I'm looking for.
With 125' of driveway and a 40x50' parking area. Forget it. It is
NOT worth the money.

As I said in my original post, I've used this stuff several times
before. It is durable and holds together pretty well, compared to
gravel.... And no, it isn't asphalt.

We have several in the community that have held up really well while
their neighbors stone driveways have been washed several times by
weather.

I was trying to see if anyone knew of any product for helping with the
bonding. I KNOW what it is, HOW I've used it, WHAT to expect and how
WELL it holds up, compared to the gravel driveways.

The best part is the COST. It costs me the FUEL for the dump truck.
I've got access to all the other equipment.


Or are the retailer sealers adequate?

You mean the water emulsions of asphalt? Forget it.

Ether Jones wrote:
Richard J Kinch wrote:

There's a reason this old material was torn up. It's no good for paving
any more. You might as well try to pave with kitty litter or bread
crumbs.

Have you ever tried it?

The county was tearing up the "asphalt" road in front of my home. I
talked the crew into dumping and rolling of load of at the end of my
gravel drive. No special prep, no sealers, no nothing - just dump it,
spread it, and roll it down.

Looks great, wears like iron. Wish they'd done the whole 200 feet.

Thats the best part. Sometimes you can get the stuff for free and put
it down if you have the equipment.

What I have now is 125' that basically looks like a worn asphalt
driveway and it has held up a hell of a lot better then stone EVER
could, but certainly NOT like a new asphalt driveway. The previous
owner did that 5 years ago. And left the driveway near the house
stone. We enlarged this area to a 40' x 50' and are looking to fill
this in. The 125' we will do when it needs it.

Chris Lewis wrote:
According to webber1998 :

BobK207 wrote:
wrote:
Home made asphalt? Sounds a little risky.......I'd do a test batch
about 3' x 3' to make sure it works before I committed to a ~40 yds
potential disaster

Thanks Bob,

We are already committed to the millings and have no problems using it
just compacted. I wouldn't call it home made ashpalt. Just looking
for a way to cut down on all the loose gravel. W've used the millings
on a couple of driveways, compacted it well and it works just fine.
Typically longer driveways and the millings are a lot better then
gravel.

On this particular driveway, my son in law was wondering about seal
coating or some other substance to keep the excess gravel down and
would that, or something else, help to bond the millings.

Out of curiousity, I looked it up and found this:

http://www.state.nj.us/dep/dshw/rrtp/amgd.htm

[New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection Guidelines]

See section F3 and F4.

Basically, "loose" and "simple compaction" aren't permitted.

A binder (they mention "liquid asphalt" - this isn't driveway
sealer) or heat (essentially using it in a "normal" paving process
- provided that there's enough asphalt in the "millings").
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

Thanks for the info... I appreciate it....

Richard J Kinch wrote:
Ether Jones writes:

No special prep, no sealers, no nothing - just dump it,
spread it, and roll it down.

For loose gravel, OK.

The OP was trying to improvise some kind of concrete from it.

No, not trying to improvise ANYTHING.

I know what it is, where its from and how it works. I've used it
before and the previous owner put 125' of it on the length of my
driveway leading to my house and parking area. Would you like a photo
of it after over 5 years ??? IT SURE THE HELL ISN'T GRAVEL.

According to webber1998 :

Richard J Kinch wrote:
Ether Jones writes:

No special prep, no sealers, no nothing - just dump it,
spread it, and roll it down.

For loose gravel, OK.

The OP was trying to improvise some kind of concrete from it.

No, not trying to improvise ANYTHING.

I know what it is, where its from and how it works. I've used it
before and the previous owner put 125' of it on the length of my
driveway leading to my house and parking area. Would you like a photo
of it after over 5 years ??? IT SURE THE HELL ISN'T GRAVEL.

The key to it working is how much asphalt is left, and how badly
it's deteriorated (some of it evaporates, believe it or not).

If it's still "juicy" enough grin, simple compaction will work
if done properly. But mixing it with liquid asphalt will
replenish even real stale asphalt, or applying it with heat
will make it possible to reuse staler asphalt without adding
fresh asphalt.

It's better to avoid taking chances, and use one or the other
to make sure it stays put and doesn't crumble on you.
All the better if it's on a firm packed base. Eg: an
already well-used gravel driveway.

There is road building equipment that drives along, grinds
and picks up asphalt and immediately re-lays it behind.
They do both - add hot tar and heat - the "tar truck" is
ahead of the machine. Then the big rollers come along
and compact it while it's still hot.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

webber1998 writes:

IT SURE THE H*** ISN'T GRAVEL.

The please explain what this term "millings" means.

Asphalt pavement is a concrete consisting of gravel aggregate in asphaltic
cement. Recycled asphaltic pavement consists of the same. Mostly gravel.

Chris Lewis wrote:
According to webber1998 :

Richard J Kinch wrote:
Ether Jones writes:

No special prep, no sealers, no nothing - just dump it,
spread it, and roll it down.

For loose gravel, OK.

The OP was trying to improvise some kind of concrete from it.

No, not trying to improvise ANYTHING.

I know what it is, where its from and how it works. I've used it
before and the previous owner put 125' of it on the length of my
driveway leading to my house and parking area. Would you like a photo
of it after over 5 years ??? IT SURE THE HELL ISN'T GRAVEL.

The key to it working is how much asphalt is left, and how badly
it's deteriorated (some of it evaporates, believe it or not).

If it's still "juicy" enough grin, simple compaction will work
if done properly. But mixing it with liquid asphalt will
replenish even real stale asphalt, or applying it with heat
will make it possible to reuse staler asphalt without adding
fresh asphalt.

It's better to avoid taking chances, and use one or the other
to make sure it stays put and doesn't crumble on you.
All the better if it's on a firm packed base. Eg: an
already well-used gravel driveway.

There is road building equipment that drives along, grinds
and picks up asphalt and immediately re-lays it behind.
They do both - add hot tar and heat - the "tar truck" is
ahead of the machine. Then the big rollers come along
and compact it while it's still hot.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

I went out and checked what they had for me and yes, it is still fairly
"juicy". Yesterday was fairly sunny and it was pretty goopy stuff. (
Love that English ! ). I can get the heat, but not sure about the
liquid asphalt.

Thanks !

According to webber1998 :

I went out and checked what they had for me and yes, it is still fairly
"juicy". Yesterday was fairly sunny and it was pretty goopy stuff. (
Love that English ! ).

Heh. I spent a couple of summers working in a refinery lab, where one
of the most frequent tests I did was on road building asphalt.

It's _startling_ how soft/gooey it is even at room temperature when
in the unmixed state. Took me a while to believe that was what
it was, because I was _sure_ anybody driving on it would sink right
through. In the raw/unmixed state, it starts turning liquid around
85-95F. Yeah, really.

The aggregates mixed into it makes all the difference.

I can get the heat, but not sure about the liquid asphalt.

Well, short of buying a tanker truck full...

It might be worth contacting a driveway paver, and see what they
say about using your material... That'd make things very simple.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

Chris Lewis wrote:
According to webber1998 :


It might be worth contacting a driveway paver, and see what they
say about using your material... That'd make things very simple.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

Thanks for the information....

replying to Richard J Kinch, SEPaving wrote:
For someone who purports to know so much about asphalt pavement, you sure
don't seem to know much about how one is resurfaced. All large asphalt
contractors have been utilizing milling machines to smooth & top-grade
existing roads prior to laying down a new mat of asphalt for the last 15 years
or so. You use a large milling machine & about 70% of the time there is
enough liquid asphalt left in the millings that simply spreading & compacting
the millings will result in a very durable driveway. After a summer or two of
being baked by the sun and driven on normally even a scarifier has a pretty
tough time cutting through the mat this forms.

--
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On 10/11/2017 04:44 PM, SEPaving wrote:
replying to Richard J Kinch, SEPaving wrote:
For someone who purports to know so much about asphalt pavement, you sure
don't seem to know much about how one is resurfaced. All large asphalt
contractors have been utilizing milling machines to smooth & top-grade
existing roads prior to laying down a new mat of asphalt for the last 15
years
or so. You use a large milling machine & about 70% of the time there is
enough liquid asphalt left in the millings that simply spreading &
compacting
the millings will result in a very durable driveway. After a summer or
two of
being baked by the sun and driven on normally even a scarifier has a pretty
tough time cutting through the mat this forms.


I've seen plenty of rotomilling but when they redid the road where I
live they used a technique I hadn't seen. It was chip seal that hadn't
had much maintenance for thirty years I know of. They ground up the
pavement in place and redeposited it with some fairly large chunks.
Riding a bike on it was a real pleasure. Then they went away for a month
or so, let traffic compact it, and came back to lay down real hot top.
We'll see how that goes. Most of the city streets are periodically chip
sealed and they develop deep enough ruts that you have to be careful
when you stop for a light on a bike.

replying to rwebb, Ray B wrote:
Looking at hawk seal mb

--
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