Check out my problem:

http://www.704westjoppa.com/ba1.gif
http://www.704westjoppa.com/ba2.gif

After losing my balance in the shower and putting my weight against the
left wall of the shower, the whole wall flexed. Uh oh. The tiles peeled
off the wall like stickers, and there was little left of the original
green board behind the tile, except, of course, for lots of nice black
mold.

I've owned the house for just 10 months and this has been the biggest
of my surprises.

I obviously have to redo the entire shower: three walls surrounding the
tub plus the ceiling above the tub. I'm looking for suggestions as to
the combination of materials to be used here. Special considerations go
to the window (1-yr old full vinyl) since it is hit directly by the
shower spray (what were they thinking when they installed this here?!).
There is also a light in the shower ceiling.

Here's the current plan:

1. Replace insulation (studs seem to free from rot)
2.15lb roofing felt stapled over studs
3. 1/2" Durock backerboard
4. 6x6 ceramic tiles laid with thinset mortar

Obviously this is an oversimplification, but I just want to make sure
no big steps are missing here, particularly with the moisture barrier.
We just redid the entire kitchen right below this tub and I need to be
100% sure I am not going to get any leaks from either the walls or the
window. I can't afford drywall repairs in the kitchen! So what part of
this doesn't make sense or could be done better?

This will likely be a DIY project, although I may split the work with a
local tile guy who has done small jobs for me before. I would do the
demo and hang the new board. He would do the tile install. With little
tile experience, what are my biggest challenges?

Thanks for any help! It's a small bathroom, but a big pain for me!

"WirelessNut" wrote in message
oups.com...
Check out my problem:

http://www.704westjoppa.com/ba1.gif
http://www.704westjoppa.com/ba2.gif

Damn! I feel much better now about my leaky tub faucet, and stupid wallpaper
that the previous owners should never have installed in a wet area!

Although some of them are tacky & ugly, there are some ready-made shower
wall systems that look pretty classy. Have you explored that option yet,
just so you're sure you don't want it?

WirelessNut wrote:

Check out my problem:

http://www.704westjoppa.com/ba1.gif
http://www.704westjoppa.com/ba2.gif

After losing my balance in the shower and putting my weight against the
left wall of the shower, the whole wall flexed. Uh oh. The tiles peeled
off the wall like stickers, and there was little left of the original
green board behind the tile, except, of course, for lots of nice black
mold.

I've owned the house for just 10 months and this has been the biggest
of my surprises.

I obviously have to redo the entire shower: three walls surrounding the
tub plus the ceiling above the tub. I'm looking for suggestions as to
the combination of materials to be used here. Special considerations go
to the window (1-yr old full vinyl) since it is hit directly by the
shower spray (what were they thinking when they installed this here?!).
There is also a light in the shower ceiling.

SNIP

Leaving the tiling problems aside,

1) Any chance that the window could simply be eliminated?
It seems to defeat all the effort that will go into a new
tile job.

2) Give some thought to providing grab bars. Lay out a plan
for them. Then install suitable bracing between studs to
bolt them to.

If the soap dish had a built-in grab, get rid of it.

3) As long as the wall will be open, consider replacing the
3-handle tub control. If you're perfectly happy with it, OK.

Jim

Jim,

I didn't want to bore everyone with ALL the details, but we will
replace the three-handle with a single handle control.

Scrapping the window is probably not an option, since I can't get into
the exterior work required to flll the hole right now. It's an old Cape
Cod with asbestos shingles that we'll eventually replace, but my home
equity loan is maxrd out, so where not going there!

Doug,

We thought about a surround, but the nice ones are as much or more than
the materials/labor for the tile job, which will look nicer.

"WirelessNut" wrote in message
oups.com...
Check out my problem:

http://www.704westjoppa.com/ba1.gif
http://www.704westjoppa.com/ba2.gif

After losing my balance in the shower and putting my weight against the
left wall of the shower, the whole wall flexed. Uh oh. The tiles peeled
off the wall like stickers, and there was little left of the original
green board behind the tile, except, of course, for lots of nice black
mold.

I've owned the house for just 10 months and this has been the biggest
of my surprises.

I obviously have to redo the entire shower: three walls surrounding the
tub plus the ceiling above the tub. I'm looking for suggestions as to
the combination of materials to be used here. Special considerations go
to the window (1-yr old full vinyl) since it is hit directly by the
shower spray (what were they thinking when they installed this here?!).
There is also a light in the shower ceiling.

Here's the current plan:

1. Replace insulation (studs seem to free from rot)
2.15lb roofing felt stapled over studs
3. 1/2" Durock backerboard
4. 6x6 ceramic tiles laid with thinset mortar



First you need to:
1/. Get a dust mask for working around the mold or call a
professional(better option, but more expense).
2/. If you have air exchange shut it off or the mold spores will lodge into
it and you'll need to clean that out as well.
3/. Seal the doorway before starting any work.Heavy plastic will be fine.
4/. Remove any and all contaminated material and material you'll be
replacing.
5/. Clean the mold from the studs as well as anything else that there is
mold adhering to.
6/. Reinsulate and vapour Barrier. Be sure to seal the edges of the vapour
barrier all around with tape or sealant.
7/. use concrete board for the walls in the shower area, it's more expensive
then drywall but it's made for the area.
8/. Get the roll of waterproof sealer and attatch to the walls for extra
waterproofing.
9/. Proceed to tile to specifications.

Hope this helps.




Obviously this is an oversimplification, but I just want to make sure
no big steps are missing here, particularly with the moisture barrier.
We just redid the entire kitchen right below this tub and I need to be
100% sure I am not going to get any leaks from either the walls or the
window. I can't afford drywall repairs in the kitchen! So what part of
this doesn't make sense or could be done better?

This will likely be a DIY project, although I may split the work with a
local tile guy who has done small jobs for me before. I would do the
demo and hang the new board. He would do the tile install. With little
tile experience, what are my biggest challenges?

Thanks for any help! It's a small bathroom, but a big pain for me!

Where in the sandwhich would the "roll of waterproof sealer" go (as you
mention in #8)? On top of the concrete board? This is in addition to
the roofing felt, yes?

You shouldn't use roofing felt on the inside of the house. It is a tar
product. The roll of waterproof sealer is what you will need.


"WirelessNut" wrote in message
oups.com...
Where in the sandwhich would the "roll of waterproof sealer" go (as you
mention in #8)? On top of the concrete board? This is in addition to
the roofing felt, yes?

"WirelessNut" wrote in message
oups.com...
Where in the sandwhich would the "roll of waterproof sealer" go (as you
mention in #8)? On top of the concrete board? This is in addition to
the roofing felt, yes?

I wouldn't use it. Not really nesecary. if you did it would go behind the
backerboard, in place of the roofing felt. Nothing should go between the
tile and backerboard except the thinset or mastic.

On 23 Feb 2006 06:25:36 -0800, "WirelessNut"
wrote:

Check out my problem:

http://www.704westjoppa.com/ba1.gif
http://www.704westjoppa.com/ba2.gif

After losing my balance in the shower and putting my weight against the
left wall of the shower, the whole wall flexed. Uh oh. The tiles peeled
off the wall like stickers, and there was little left of the original
green board behind the tile, except, of course, for lots of nice black

Here's the current plan:

1. Replace insulation (studs seem to free from rot)
2.15lb roofing felt stapled over studs
3. 1/2" Durock backerboard
4. 6x6 ceramic tiles laid with thinset mortar

Drop a couple of mothballs in the wall cavities,
to keep the mold/mildew beat back after you seal
it up.

While you've got the wall open, let in a
backer-board for a real grab-bar,
so you don't have to worry about finding the
studs, later.
-------------------

This is not a suggestion, it's a question:
Why roofing felt instead of plastic sheet,
under the backerboard?

--Goedjn

"HotRod" wrote in message
...
1) Replace the window with some glass block and tile right up to it
without a ledge.
2) I've used 1/2 plywood with a coat of mastic glue (to seal it) with
great success. THis leaves the option to install a grab bar anywhere you
like.


Mount a safety bar right to 1/2" plywood? Might work, but it's easy to
envision a situation where it would not.

We thought about glass block. Might still do it. We have little
vetilation on the this floor, though, and the added air through the
window is nice in this non-air conditioned house.

I might have to do the tile, too, due to budget constraints.

Goedjn, the roofing felt was a suggestion from a well-regarded web
site: http://www.thetiledoctor.com/index.cfm

"WirelessNut" wrote in message
oups.com...
We thought about glass block. Might still do it. We have little
vetilation on the this floor, though, and the added air through the
window is nice in this non-air conditioned house.

I might have to do the tile, too, due to budget constraints.

Goedjn, the roofing felt was a suggestion from a well-regarded web
site: http://www.thetiledoctor.com/index.cfm


If you don't have a fan in that bathroom, a functional window's a good idea.

WirelessNut wrote:
Check out my problem:

http://www.704westjoppa.com/ba1.gif
http://www.704westjoppa.com/ba2.gif

After losing my balance in the shower and putting my weight against the
left wall of the shower, the whole wall flexed. Uh oh. The tiles peeled
off the wall like stickers, and there was little left of the original
green board behind the tile, except, of course, for lots of nice black
mold.

I've owned the house for just 10 months and this has been the biggest
of my surprises.

I obviously have to redo the entire shower: three walls surrounding the
tub plus the ceiling above the tub. I'm looking for suggestions as to
the combination of materials to be used here. Special considerations go
to the window (1-yr old full vinyl) since it is hit directly by the
shower spray (what were they thinking when they installed this here?!).
There is also a light in the shower ceiling.

Here's the current plan:

1. Replace insulation (studs seem to free from rot)
2.15lb roofing felt stapled over studs
3. 1/2" Durock backerboard
4. 6x6 ceramic tiles laid with thinset mortar

Obviously this is an oversimplification, but I just want to make sure
no big steps are missing here, particularly with the moisture barrier.
We just redid the entire kitchen right below this tub and I need to be
100% sure I am not going to get any leaks from either the walls or the
window. I can't afford drywall repairs in the kitchen! So what part of
this doesn't make sense or could be done better?

This will likely be a DIY project, although I may split the work with a
local tile guy who has done small jobs for me before. I would do the
demo and hang the new board. He would do the tile install. With little
tile experience, what are my biggest challenges?

Thanks for any help! It's a small bathroom, but a big pain for me!

hey there doug,

i have been laying tile now for 13 yrs. i don't suggest that anybody
use durock for anything. in a bathroom shower area i use hardi- backer
it a lot better than durock. instead of thinset use mastic its better
for walls and there is no mixing. it comes in a 1 or 3 gallon bucket.
if you have a home depot near you buy it from there. the brand name of
the mastic is custom products. its the best on the market. when using
the hardi backer just make sure that the screws are flush against the
board. and also remember that you must have the screws 8" apart from
each other too.

i hope this will help you .

bill

Thanks, Bill. I have gotten lots of recommendations on hardibacker and
will ook into it. I was just at HD last night wondering about the
mastic since it seemed easier than the thinset. Does the mastic do as
good a job keeping the water out?

BTW, are you the same Bill who posts over at GardenWeb? If so, thanks
for all your posts on tile backsplashes! They really helped us finish
ours last year!

Look into the roll of waterproofing fabric. It's pink in color. Not sure the
actual name. This will protect the walls from possible mold reinfesting due
to water seepage. Make sure all the mold is cleaned up before you close up
the wall again or you just covered over a serious problem that will continue
to cause problems for you and your family.

"Charles Spitzer" wrote in message
...

"WirelessNut" wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks, Bill. I have gotten lots of recommendations on hardibacker and
will ook into it. I was just at HD last night wondering about the
mastic since it seemed easier than the thinset. Does the mastic do as
good a job keeping the water out?

BTW, are you the same Bill who posts over at GardenWeb? If so, thanks
for all your posts on tile backsplashes! They really helped us finish
ours last year!

mastic and thinset hold the tiles on. they are not waterproofing.

I hesisate to suggest seeing a lawer, but this didnt go bad overnite.
Was there ANY indication of a earlier problem / fix and more important
was this area disdclosed before sale to have troubles?

If they knew and covered it up the old wwners are on the hook for $$
repair cost!

I sold a home just over a year ago and discllosed everything, so they
couldnt come back and get me for repairs

"Marc_G" wrote in message
. ..

Ack! I used to have 3-handle controls and loved them; our new (built
2000) house has a single round control. Given similar pressure on the
water line, it lets less water through to the shower head, and the one
we have doesn't even give flow control. It's either on or off, you just
get to choose the temp by rotating it.

You can still find single control faucets with a lever instead of a round
knob. That gives you much finer control over water volume.

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 13:18:17 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Marc_G" wrote in message
...

Ack! I used to have 3-handle controls and loved them; our new (built
2000) house has a single round control. Given similar pressure on the
water line, it lets less water through to the shower head, and the one
we have doesn't even give flow control. It's either on or off, you just
get to choose the temp by rotating it.

You can still find single control faucets with a lever instead of a round
knob. That gives you much finer control over water volume.

Mine's push/pull to control volume, and twist for temp.

I'm not sure I understand how you COULD build a mechanical
faucet that doesn't have variable volume, much less
why anyone would.

On 23 Feb 2006 17:49:28 -0800, "
wrote:

I hesisate to suggest seeing a lawer.

No you don't.

"Goedjn" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 13:18:17 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Marc_G" wrote in message
m...

Ack! I used to have 3-handle controls and loved them; our new (built
2000) house has a single round control. Given similar pressure on the
water line, it lets less water through to the shower head, and the one
we have doesn't even give flow control. It's either on or off, you just
get to choose the temp by rotating it.

You can still find single control faucets with a lever instead of a round
knob. That gives you much finer control over water volume.

Mine's push/pull to control volume, and twist for temp.

I'm not sure I understand how you COULD build a mechanical
faucet that doesn't have variable volume, much less
why anyone would.



As minerals build up in either kind, I think the round ones become harder to
control. You tend to pull or push harder, which can result in larger changes
in volume. The lever type is easier to control.

Hi just a cheap/ easy suggestion on the window. I had an apt. with a
similar situation once and just used plastic miniblind with slats
facing down when I showered. It was very effective. You do say, though,
that shower spray hits window directly- mine was a glancing flow- might
be a bit tougher challenge- get one and test it if possible. Also, you
could build up/ replace sill so that it slopes into tub, sand/prime
paint all woodwork with 2-3 coats marine paint. It would be good to
keep window- and use it- to vent out moisture. Depending where you
live it can be very pleasant to shower with outside sounds, scents. Or
consider putting in exhaust fan- you did say you're doing ceiling,
too, no?

"No" wrote in message ...
"WirelessNut" wrote in message
oups.com...
Where in the sandwhich would the "roll of waterproof sealer" go (as you
mention in #8)? On top of the concrete board? This is in addition to
the roofing felt, yes?

I wouldn't use it. Not really nesecary. if you did it would go behind the
backerboard, in place of the roofing felt. Nothing should go between the
tile and backerboard except the thinset or mastic.


Actually the waterproof fabric goes over the backerboard to prevent water
from hitting the backerboard and is attached using thinset. Thinset is then
used on top of that to attach the tile. It completely waterproofs the area
from water penetration due to leaks and spills. It would go over the walls
and across the floor if the floor is tiled.Every join would be overlapped
causing a completely sealed area. Roofing felt is an exterior product and
should not be used inside a dwelling.

WirelessNut wrote:
Jim,

I didn't want to bore everyone with ALL the details, but we will
replace the three-handle with a single handle control.

Scrapping the window is probably not an option, since I can't get into
the exterior work required to flll the hole right now. It's an old Cape
Cod with asbestos shingles that we'll eventually replace, but my home
equity loan is maxrd out, so where not going there!

Doug,

We thought about a surround, but the nice ones are as much or more than
the materials/labor for the tile job, which will look nicer.

May want to think about glass block to replace the window, still lets
light in.

There are pricey temp adjust controls available today, you set the temp
with a LED readout and it stays there forever provided theres enough
hot water.

I was told there about a 1000 bucks, costly but how often o you replace
a shower faucet? with the temp preset how much water / sewer/ heating
water energy will you save in a lifetime?

On 2/23/2006 7:49 PM or thereabouts, appears, somewhat
unbelievably, to have opined:

I hesisate to suggest seeing a lawer, but this didnt go bad overnite.
Was there ANY indication of a earlier problem / fix and more important
was this area disdclosed before sale to have troubles?

If they knew and covered it up the old wwners are on the hook for $$
repair cost!

I sold a home just over a year ago and discllosed everything, so they
couldnt come back and get me for repairs


It will be virtually impossible to prove that the seller was aware of
the problem. Such proof is required in order to obtain a judgement
against him.

--
As a child, my parents thought I was an idiot-savant.
Now, however, it is rather clear that I'm simply an idiot.

wrote in message
oups.com...
There are pricey temp adjust controls available today, you set the temp
with a LED readout and it stays there forever provided theres enough
hot water.

I was told there about a 1000 bucks, costly but how often o you replace
a shower faucet? with the temp preset how much water / sewer/ heating
water energy will you save in a lifetime?


The temp presets are there for safety, not to save money on heating water.