Rod Speed wrote:
Abby Normal wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Abby Normal wrote
Rod Speed wrote

In effect the ductless split system is just like the strips except
that its much more efficient than the strips for when the primary
system doesnt have enough horsepower to come back off setback
quickly enough

Actually with the heat strips in an auxilairy heat function, the
heat strips are in series with the heat pump indoor air coil and
the supply air temperature distributed through out the space is
elevated above what the heat pump can put out. An electrical
analogy would be two heat sources in series.

Irrelevant to it being a more expensive source of that heat.

Well you said the ductless split is just like the strips except...........

So I merely pointed out the fundamental difference you were not aware of.

Couldnt bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

You were just making so much progress too.

The ductless booster system will heat up a common area
that would also be recieving heat from the central ducted
system. Now you have two heat sources in parallel so it
already is a smidge different than using the heat strips.

Irrelevant to strips being a more expensive source of that heat.

Just the fundamental difference. The heat strips get the job done but
you have not really thought out this parallel heat scheme of yours in
the central area. You get a little bit of the series action as you try
to trickle heat into the rooms.

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you
have never ever had a ****ing clue about the basics.

So to avoid the room getting overly hot
the ductless system would shut off.

ONLY when its got the common area back off setback.

That is what I said. The booster is in the central area, it heats the
central area in addition to the primary system. Therefore it and the
primary system warms up the central area so the booster shuts off and
the primary system shuts off or the central area is overheated. So you
can think about your multiple thermostats and where exactly you are
going to put the primary stat.

Dont need any of that, just a stat for the ductless split system
in the primary area, set a little below the normal temp required.

Rooms will never recover then, think about it. That booster is not
doing much more than recovering the core if you cut it off before the
primary system. You need a booster in every room for this. Like adding
a heat pump to a home that originally had electric baseboard heaters in
each room.


Here is the Parable of the House with Electric baseboard heat that
upgraded to a heat pump

Leave the baseboard heaters in place with their own line voltage stat
set down just a little lower than what the PRIMARY sytem stat is set
for. This is more of an auxiliary heat strategy when the heat pump
cannot keep up to an extreme ambient. You have the heat pump trying to
keep the space warm and if temperature drops, the electric baseboards
kick on.

So you are going to use this scheme for recovery. Except it only gets
close to recovering in one room. Hey I told you to put a ductless split
in each room to have a snowball's hope in hell with your stupid idea.

Maybe even motorized dampers on the primary supply to the
central area. So you shut off the supplies to the central area
so not to overheat but you need to draw return from the central
area to try and get this extra heat to the rooms. Hmm this
depressurizes central area, causes infiltration, increases heat load.

Pathetic, really.

Well the only way you are going to recover with your dog scheme is to
overheat the core.

Don't see you getting out of overheating the central area rocket.

Your problem.

Give up now on the ductless booster its a dog.

A big problem is to get heat to the other areas, you will
most likely find that you need to overheat the central area.

No you dont. The primary system will equalise the temps fine.

How? Little gremlins carry the btus by magic? You have no clue.

Others have pointed out how this wastes energy. I pointed out how it
also reduces the efficiency of the booster in addition to wasting heat.

Not a ****ing clue, as always.

Well work it out, show how it does-- maybe summarize a viable scheme.
Why didn't I think of asking you that before? I think your standard
repettoire is your subconcious coming out, like a freudian slip, but
the problem is you are only describing yourself. I plagerized that from
some one in here, but it seems to be true.

Thats what you want it to do.

You have warmed up the central area but
all the other rooms are still not recovered.

Wrong, the primary system will be circulating that
warmed up air from the central area to the other areas.

It is circulating a mixture of air at various temperatures, the central
area with the booster will be perhaps 4 or 5 degrees F warmer than the
air in the rooms while the remainder of the house is trying to recover.

The primary system heats this air. As you will see, maybe introducing
air at 25 degrees warmer than the room temperatures, maintains the room
at that temperature, and by supplying air a little more than 25 degrees
warmer than the room air temperature it may then elevate or begin to
recover the room temperature back to a comfortable level. It depends on
how your system is tailored


Probably the primary system moves air based on the fact that perhaps
it supplies air maybe 20 degrees F warmer than the room air, and this
is to maintain temperature not recover the temperature.

It doesnt recover the temp, the ductless split system does that, stupid.

It simply heats the rooms, everywhere it is ducted too.

If you would get out a note pad, you could write down a tip. The
sensible heat supplied to the room is proportional to the airflow to
the room. and the temperature differential between the hopefully warm
supply air and the room air. A heat pump extracting heat from a
temperature source near the freezing point of water may elevate the
supply air temperature by upwards to 20 degrees F above the room
temperature.

Now keep reading and maybe we can take a look at how this heat will
transfer without the help of gremlins.

Ouch that must hurt.

Maybe it gets up to a little higher differential in your easy climate
and relatively warm winter ambient maybe you are getting 25 to
30 F degree rise. Okay lets call it a 25 degree rise.

There wont be ANY rise when the stat for the
ductless split system is set to a bit below the
normal temp required and is JUST used to come
back off setback instead of using the strips for that.

LMAO, what the hell did you think I was talking about the room
temperature jumping by 25 degrees, too funny. Mind you by the time you
work out your ductless booster the central area temperature may have
climbed 15F above a 5F setback by the time the rooms recovered. We
already covered the heat wasted with the elevated core temperature so
we can move on.

Grab the same notebook and write this down. In your location in the
land down under, maybe your heat pumps have a warmer ambient heat
source than perhaps 0C. When the temperature source of a heat pump
increases, then the heat output of the heat pump also increases. I
thought you had this concept down before. So possibly with a 7C
ambient, the heat pump may be able to warm the air coming out of the
ducts by 25 degrees F above the room temperature.

For example 65F return, 25 degree rise, maybe a 90F supply plus a
little fan heat.

So when you work out how much heat goes to the rooms, from the primary
system, it will be proportional to the temperature difference between
the room air being drawn into the return and the supply air being
delivered to the room.

Perhaps the core area of the home has 25% of the heat loss and
therefore needs 25% of the air of the primary system. Your booster gets
the core up to 70F quickly and the rooms may have warmed from 65 to 66F
in the time the booster got the central area up to 70F..

The temperature of the air going into the primary heat pump could then
be 0.25x70 +0.75x66=67F

So maybe the supply air, leaving the heat pump to the rooms is now
67+25=92F instead of 66+25=91. You gained some extra heat input into
the rooms as the core area warmed.

Without overheating the open area of the home all that booster does is
help the core recover quick, and gives you a control problem to deal
with. Does not really add that much heat to the rooms.

I hear when you learn something the hard way, you never forget.

Subtract 32 then divide by 1.8, it may be less confusing.

See you are a little vague, and won't
layout exactly what you are proposing,

Lying, as always.


Well summarize exactly what you are proposing, you are simply vague and
the scheme evolves all the time. It was a ducted system, a ductless
system and a swamp cooler last time I heard.

Reams of irrelevant crap flushed where it belongs.

I WASNT DISCUSSING MY PERSONAL SITUATION, APE.

Reams of a pathetic excuse for a troll flushed where it belongs.

So you could keep the all the bedroom doors open to allow them
to gain as much heat as they could from the booster heater in the
living room, but you will not have anything close to uniform heat.

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you
have never ever had a ****ing clue about the basics.

AND when people have got up, it doesnt matter if the
bedrooms arent YET back to the normal temp anyway.
Either the bedroom occupant is still in the bed, and has
been at the setback temp up till then, or they have got
up and have moved to the central areas, stupid.

Well you gave up on the morning setback,

Wrong again, just discussing how to do a
system if you dont want a morning setback.

No real point in setting back at all, just keep it cool all the time.
But we were talking about the typical setback.

So lets keep it to Awake Leave Return Sleep. I was saying before that
unless you go to extreme, unviable situations, the heat pump without
strips is going to have a tough time recovering in the morning without
the help of some sunshine. And to recover before the return period, you
will need the help of the sun also. The Sleep Awake setback is the most
challenging one to deal with, so it is convenient when you want to
neglect it.

You actually have a climate where it may be possible to do this,
without the extremes, just I doubt you will be able to figure it out. I
was looking at areas down there average lows in July were like 6 to 9C,
average highs in July were hitting 15C, you should almost be able to do
this. Especially if it is as dry as you say, then you do not have to
worry about the poor dehumidification in the cooling season.


Reams of a pathetic excuse for a troll flushed where it belongs.

This trolling is a lot of work, but your standard repetoire is slowing
down a bit. Seems you get beat up when you deviate from it. Is it
tomorrow there yet, you have been answering me all day. I still have
some line on my reel.

I suspect another round of wet paper bags, blotto, pig ignorant and
HVAC ape to be forthcoming. That keeps you safe at least, because you
are really starting to embarass yourself when you say anything else.

Abby Normal wrote:

This trolling is a lot of work, but your standard repetoire is slowing
down a bit. Seems you get beat up when you deviate from it. Is it
tomorrow there yet, you have been answering me all day. I still have
some line on my reel.

I suspect another round of wet paper bags, blotto, pig ignorant and
HVAC ape to be forthcoming. That keeps you safe at least, because you
are really starting to embarass yourself when you say anything else.

Like others here I tried to debate Rod . As in this thread whenever
the facts contradicted his claims he reverted to the "reams" and similar
auto responses.
There was a discussion here about whether non-citizens were covered
by the Bill of Rights. He insisted they were not. I posted a Supreme
Court decision showing that they ,in fact, were covered. His rebuttal
consisted of "irrelevant"
It appears that he is a lifetime welfare recipient lacking
education,income and social or communication skills.He also seemed
obsessed with the fact that I have a good paying sales job, something
that semi-literate, uneducated ill mannered dolts can never achieve,
I find the group to be more pleasant after I kill filed the child as
I now only see his repetitive non-responses when someone quotes him.

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PS- I will never see it but his predictable response will be something
along the lines of "no wonder the only job the ****wit can manage is
sales fool"
The only thing sadder than his stock replies is when he tries to say
something beyond that.


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Abby Normal wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Corse it will work fine. No reason why the secondary
system cant have a slightly lower than normal temperature
set so it recovers from the setback in a decent time and
then stops and leaves the primary system to get the temp
back up to normal. Thats going to happen fine since the
temp difference is well within its capabilitys.

If you shut the booster off before the central area
gets up to temp and rely on the primary system
then bringing it up to temperature then, this central
area catches up quick compared to the rest of the house.

Wrong. The primary system which keeps the house at a uniform
temp when setback isnt used keeps doing that fine when you
use anything to get the central area back off setback.

Doesnt matter if thats a ductless split system,
solar, a wood stove, or even a furnace etc.

Not much heat from that booster trickling
into the rooms in that time frame.

Complete pig ignorant drivel.

Maybe the central area gets back 4 out of 5 degrees
in one half hour, and in another hour, the central area
warms up the last degree. Primary system is off.

No it aint. Thats why you set the stat on the ductless split system
to a bit below the normal temp that the primary stat is set to.

The primary system has enough capacity to maintain
the temps properly without setback, the only problem
is that it needs to use the strips to come back off setback
quickly enough. The secondary system JUST replaces
the strips and is a lot cheaper to run than the strips.

No heat to the rooms.

Wrong, as always. Same heat to the rooms
as you get without setback being used.

So you really need to think about your controls
and where exactly to put that primary stat.

No you dont, whatever works fine with no setback
will still work fine with setback and some system
to replace the strips when coming back off setback.

Rooms are no where close to warming up. Only way
to warm up rooms is to over heat the central area.

Thanks for that completey superfluous proof that you have
never ever had a ****ing clue about the basics, and why
the best you have ever managed is drunken HVAC ape.

Strips will warm the whole place up. The ductless
booster can't without overheating the 'core'.

Thanks for that completey superfluous proof that you have
never ever had a ****ing clue about the basics, and why
the best you have ever managed is drunken HVAC ape.

Reams of pathetic attempt at a troll that any 2 year
old could leave for dead flushed where it belongs.

Abby Normal wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Abby Normal wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Abby Normal wrote
Rod Speed wrote

In effect the ductless split system is just like the strips
except that its much more efficient than the strips for
when the primary system doesnt have enough horsepower
to come back off setback quickly enough

Actually with the heat strips in an auxilairy heat function, the
heat strips are in series with the heat pump indoor air coil and
the supply air temperature distributed through out the space is
elevated above what the heat pump can put out. An electrical
analogy would be two heat sources in series.

Irrelevant to it being a more expensive source of that heat.

Well you said the ductless split is just like the strips except...........

So I merely pointed out the fundamental difference you were not aware of.

Couldnt bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

You were just making so much progress too.

Couldnt bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

The ductless booster system will heat up a common area
that would also be recieving heat from the central ducted
system. Now you have two heat sources in parallel so it
already is a smidge different than using the heat strips.

Irrelevant to strips being a more expensive source of that heat.

Just the fundamental difference. The heat strips get the job
done but you have not really thought out this parallel heat
scheme of yours in the central area. You get a little bit of
the series action as you try to trickle heat into the rooms.

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you
have never ever had a ****ing clue about the basics.

So to avoid the room getting overly hot
the ductless system would shut off.

ONLY when its got the common area back off setback.

That is what I said. The booster is in the central area, it heats
the central area in addition to the primary system. Therefore it
and the primary system warms up the central area so the booster
shuts off and the primary system shuts off or the central area is
overheated. So you can think about your multiple thermostats
and where exactly you are going to put the primary stat.

Dont need any of that, just a stat for the ductless split system
in the primary area, set a little below the normal temp required.

Rooms will never recover then,

Wrong, as always. The primary system is clearly quite adequate
to keep the temps in the house uniform if setback isnt used.

Nothing changes on that when setback is used and a ductless
split system or anything else is used to come back off the
setback quicker than the primary system can achieve.

think about it. That booster is not doing much more than
recovering the core if you cut it off before the primary system.

Wrong when the primary system is perfectly capable of keeping
the temps uniform in the house when setback isnt used.

You need a booster in every room for this.

Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have
never ever had a ****ing clue about the basics and why the
best you have ever been able to manage is drunken HVAC ape.

Like adding a heat pump to a home that originally
had electric baseboard heaters in each room.

Nothing like if the heap pump has a properly
designed duct system added with it.

Reams of terminally silly completely irrelevant crap
that isnt even a viable troll flushed where it belongs.

Maybe even motorized dampers on the primary supply to the
central area. So you shut off the supplies to the central area
so not to overheat but you need to draw return from the central
area to try and get this extra heat to the rooms. Hmm this
depressurizes central area, causes infiltration, increases heat load.

Pathetic, really.

Well the only way you are going to recover
with your dog scheme is to overheat the core.

Wrong, as always.

Don't see you getting out of overheating the central area rocket.

Your problem.

Give up now on the ductless booster its a dog.

A big problem is to get heat to the other areas, you will
most likely find that you need to overheat the central area.

No you dont. The primary system will equalise the temps fine.

How?

Same way it does when setback aint used, stupid.

Others have pointed out how this wastes energy. I pointed out how it
also reduces the efficiency of the booster in addition to wasting heat.

Not a ****ing clue, as always.

Reams of your pathetic excuse for a troll flushed where it belongs.

Thats what you want it to do.

You have warmed up the central area but
all the other rooms are still not recovered.

Wrong, the primary system will be circulating that
warmed up air from the central area to the other areas.

It is circulating a mixture of air at various temperatures,

Wrong, as always.

the central area with the booster will be perhaps
4 or 5 degrees F warmer than the air in the rooms
while the remainder of the house is trying to recover.

That happens when the sun shines on some
of the rooms and not the others, stupid.

The primary system heats this air. As you will see, maybe introducing
air at 25 degrees warmer than the room temperatures, maintains the
room at that temperature, and by supplying air a little more than 25
degrees warmer than the room air temperature it may then elevate or
begin to recover the room temperature back to a comfortable level. It
depends on how your system is tailored

The bulk of the air will be coming from the central area, where it will be
close to the temp you want, just like it is when setback aint used, stupid.

Probably the primary system moves air based on the fact that perhaps
it supplies air maybe 20 degrees F warmer than the room air, and
this is to maintain temperature not recover the temperature.

It doesnt recover the temp, the ductless split system does that, stupid.

It simply heats the rooms, everywhere it is ducted too.

With mostly air from the central area which has been recovered
to close to normal temp by whatever you chose to use to get
the central area back off the setback in a decent time, stupid.

If you would get out a note pad, you could write down a tip. The
sensible heat supplied to the room is proportional to the airflow to
the room. and the temperature differential between the hopefully warm
supply air and the room air. A heat pump extracting heat from a
temperature source near the freezing point of water may elevate the
supply air temperature by upwards to 20 degrees F above the room
temperature.

All completely irrelevant to what happens when the central area
has been recovered to about the normal temp by whatever you
choose to use to get back off the setback in a reasonable time.

Reams of your pathetic excuse for a troll flushed where it belongs.

None of the rest of your even sillier **** worth
bothering with, all flushed where it belongs.

Some pathological liar sales ****wit claiming to be
George Grapman wrote

Reams of your pathological lying flushed where it belongs.

It appears that he is a lifetime welfare recipient

You've been told REPEATEDLY that I have never ever recieved
even a CENT of welfare, EVER. You just keep lying about that.

lacking education, income

You've been told REPEATEDLY that that is just another lie.

My education and income leaves yours for dead liar.

No surprise that the best you have ever been able to
manage is sales ****wit. Ideal 'job' for a pathological liar.

I find the group to be more pleasant after I kill filed the child as
I now only see his repetitive non-responses when someone quotes him.

You're lying about that too.

latmu wrote:
Some pathological liar sales ****wit claiming to be
George Grapman wrote

Reams of your pathological lying flushed where it belongs.

It appears that he is a lifetime welfare recipient

You've been told REPEATEDLY that I have never ever recieved
even a CENT of welfare, EVER. You just keep lying about that.

lacking education, income

You've been told REPEATEDLY that that is just another lie.

My education and income leaves yours for dead liar.

No surprise that the best you have ever been able to
manage is sales ****wit. Ideal 'job' for a pathological liar.

I find the group to be more pleasant after I kill filed the child as
I now only see his repetitive non-responses when someone quotes him.

You're lying about that too.


Only way I see is is when others quote you or when, as in this case,
you forge your address.
Regards to sam jones from Russia.
If someone said I was on welfare I would laugh but, for some reason,
it seems to upset you.

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I am very impressed that Rod cares so much about my seeing his rants
that he forged his name.


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George Grapman wrote:
latmu wrote:
Some pathological liar sales ****wit claiming to be
George Grapman wrote

Reams of your pathological lying flushed where it belongs.

It appears that he is a lifetime welfare recipient

You've been told REPEATEDLY that I have never ever recieved
even a CENT of welfare, EVER. You just keep lying about that.

lacking education, income

You've been told REPEATEDLY that that is just another lie.

My education and income leaves yours for dead liar.

No surprise that the best you have ever been able to
manage is sales ****wit. Ideal 'job' for a pathological liar.

I find the group to be more pleasant after I kill filed the child as
I now only see his repetitive non-responses when someone quotes him.

You're lying about that too.

Only way I see is is when others quote you or when, as in this case, you forge
your address.

Lying, as always.

If someone said I was on welfare I would laugh but, for some reason, it seems
to upset you.

No it doesnt, its just the proof that you are a pathological liar.

No surprise that the best you have ever been able to
manage is sales ****wit. Ideal 'job' for a pathological liar.

Rod Speed wrote:
Abby Normal wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Corse it will work fine. No reason why the secondary
system cant have a slightly lower than normal temperature
set so it recovers from the setback in a decent time and
then stops and leaves the primary system to get the temp
back up to normal. Thats going to happen fine since the
temp difference is well within its capabilitys.

If you shut the booster off before the central area
gets up to temp and rely on the primary system
then bringing it up to temperature then, this central
area catches up quick compared to the rest of the house.

Wrong. The primary system which keeps the house at a uniform
temp when setback isnt used keeps doing that fine when you
use anything to get the central area back off setback.

Okay, the setback period ends, the primary system is running steady
trying to bring the whole house back up to temperature. Maybe has to
try and bring the whole house up by 5 degrees.

But a second system only serving in the central area also turns on.

So perhaps in one half hours time, the primary system has brought the
whole house temperature up by a degree and the secondary system has
brought up the central area by another 3 degrees.

The secondary system cycles off, and the primary system runs for
another hour has fianlly recovered the 5 degrees of set back. This was
done by the primary system supplying two degrees of reheat and the
secondary system providing 3 degrees of reheat.

But now, you need to think about where that primary system thermostat
is.

If that primary system thermostat is in the central area, it is
satisified. That means the rest of the house gets no more heat until
the central area cools off. So the rooms have recovered two degrees of
heat (actually probably a slight amount more) and the primary system is
off.

So you really need to think, of a better way to control the primary
system it is a doomed system to have the stat in the central area. You
also need to think about how to get extra heat above what the primary
system can normally supply to the rooms to assist them in recovery.

Doesnt matter if thats a ductless split system,
solar, a wood stove, or even a furnace etc.

Hey could be an electric heater in that room, will not work as well as
the strips. Solar will help after your scheme fails, it would warm up
the east rooms anyways.

Not much heat from that booster trickling
into the rooms in that time frame.

When the primary system is running and the central area has recovered,
the average return air temperature to the primary system will elevate
slightly. This results in a slightly elevated supply temperature to the
cool rooms and marginally helps them recover.

Complete pig ignorant drivel.

Maybe the central area gets back 4 out of 5 degrees
in one half hour, and in another hour, the central area
warms up the last degree. Primary system is off.

Maybe read above and other posts and you will finally see the light. I
feel bad beating you up here.

No it aint. Thats why you set the stat on the ductless split system
to a bit below the normal temp that the primary stat is set to.


Try it one more time grasshopper

You set the stat on the ductless split system lower than the primary
system. So the central area was set back to 65F. The primary stat is
set for 70F when setback ends and the ductless split stat is set for
69F when setback ends.

So at the end of the setback period, the room is 65F and that just
happens to be lower than the setting of the primary system stat and the
booster system stat. Guess what, both systems run.

So the primary system puts a portion of its heat output to the central
area and the remainder to the rest of the house and the ductless system
puts its entire heat output in the central area.

The heat output of two systems to the central area, elevates the
temperature area of the central area much faster than in the rooms.

So by the time the ductless system has switched off, the central area
is now 69F and the remainder of the house maybe 66F.

The primary system keeps running and it raisws the central area by
another degree without the help of the ductless system and the central
area is now 70F, and the primary systems TURNS OFF.

In the same time period, the rooms have also been heated by an
additional degree and they are now at 67F. But the primary system is
OFF, until the central area cools off and the primary system comes back
on. But the rooms cool off a little bit too.

So you are not going to recover the room temperature with any success
with the ductless split in the central area only.

The primary system has enough capacity to maintain
the temps properly without setback, the only problem
is that it needs to use the strips to come back off setback
quickly enough. The secondary system JUST replaces
the strips and is a lot cheaper to run than the strips.

No heat to the rooms.

Wrong, as always. Same heat to the rooms
as you get without setback being used.

The rooms will not recover with the auxiliary heat source in the
central area.

So you really need to think about your controls
and where exactly to put that primary stat.

No you dont, whatever works fine with no setback
will still work fine with setback and some system
to replace the strips when coming back off setback.

The central area being warmed up does not help the rooms much, maybe a
4 to 8 percent heat boost to the rooms above what the primary system
would normally supply.

Rooms are no where close to warming up. Only way
to warm up rooms is to over heat the central area.

Thanks for that completey superfluous proof that you have
never ever had a ****ing clue about the basics, and why
the best you have ever managed is drunken HVAC ape.

Strips will warm the whole place up. The ductless
booster can't without overheating the 'core'.

Strips will warm up the whole place-- thats an apple

The booster in the central area will warm up mainly the central area,
that is the pathetic orange. The primary system has warmed up the rooms
as much as it can. The rooms do not benefit much from the central
booster system.

If you elevate the temperature in the central area with the booster
system, then it will help the rooms recover, but it is just a stupid
idea.

Thanks for that completey superfluous proof that you have
never ever had a ****ing clue about the basics, and why
the best you have ever managed is drunken HVAC ape.

Reams of pathetic attempt at a troll that any 2 year
old could leave for dead flushed where it belongs.

I think you should drop the '****ing clue about the basics' from you
repettoire, it makes you look the most foolish of them all.

Read this one over a few times grasshoopper and think.

Abby Normal wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Abby Normal wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Corse it will work fine. No reason why the secondary
system cant have a slightly lower than normal temperature
set so it recovers from the setback in a decent time and
then stops and leaves the primary system to get the temp
back up to normal. Thats going to happen fine since the
temp difference is well within its capabilitys.

If you shut the booster off before the central area
gets up to temp and rely on the primary system
then bringing it up to temperature then, this central
area catches up quick compared to the rest of the house.

Wrong. The primary system which keeps the house at a uniform
temp when setback isnt used keeps doing that fine when you
use anything to get the central area back off setback.

Okay, the setback period ends, the primary system is running
steady trying to bring the whole house back up to temperature.
Maybe has to try and bring the whole house up by 5 degrees.

But a second system only serving in the central area also turns on.

So perhaps in one half hours time, the primary system has brought
the whole house temperature up by a degree and the secondary
system has brought up the central area by another 3 degrees.

The secondary system cycles off,

No it doesnt, it hasnt got the central area up to the normal temp, stupid.

and the primary system runs for another hour
has fianlly recovered the 5 degrees of set back.

Wrong again, the new central temp is distributed to the other rooms
by the secondary system and the whole system gets back to the
normal temp as fast as the secondary system can get it back.

This was done by the primary system supplying two degrees of
reheat and the secondary system providing 3 degrees of reheat.

Wrong, as always.

But now, you need to think about where
that primary system thermostat is.

Nope.

If that primary system thermostat is in the central area,
it is satisified. That means the rest of the house gets
no more heat until the central area cools off.

Wrong, it circulates the normal temp air from the central area
to the other rooms while the central area is recovering from
the setback. It just isnt adding much heat to that circulated air.

The WHOLE HOUSE will come back off the setback at a rate
which is determined by how quickly the secondary system can
provide the heat required to come off the setback.

So the rooms have recovered two degrees of
heat (actually probably a slight amount more)

The WHOLE HOUSE comes back off the setback
because the central air is still circulated by the
primary system, just like it is when no setback is used.

and the primary system is off.

No it isnt.

So you really need to think, of a better way to control the primary
system it is a doomed system to have the stat in the central area.

That wont give a uniform temp in the house with no setback used, stupid.

You also need to think about how to get extra heat above what the primary
system can normally supply to the rooms to assist them in recovery.

Nope, that comes from the secondary system, circulated by the primary system.

Doesnt matter if thats a ductless split system,
solar, a wood stove, or even a furnace etc.

Hey could be an electric heater in that
room, will not work as well as the strips.

Well enough.

Solar will help after your scheme fails, it
would warm up the east rooms anyways.

The primary system has to be able to handle the
inevitable that the rooms on the sunny side will get
solar and the rooms on the other side wont, stupid.

Not much heat from that booster trickling
into the rooms in that time frame.

Complete pig ignorant drivel.

When the primary system is running and the central
area has recovered, the average return air temperature
to the primary system will elevate slightly.

Lot more than slightly because its the central area, stupid.

This results in a slightly elevated supply temperature
to the cool rooms and marginally helps them recover.

The primary system keeps the temperature uniform,
just like it does with no setback used, stupid.

Reams of your pathetic excuse for a troll flushed where it belongs.

No wonder the best you have ever been able to
manage is drunken unemployable HVAC ape.

You want some other system besides the strips, then get some other
system inline with the air coming off the primary system.

Or put a booster unit in each room

Or put another ducted system in, either figure out how to make it share
the same ductwork or put in its own ductwork.

Any way you look at it, the central booster is a dog. And that dog
don't hunt.

And in the furture, it's Mr. Ape Sir to you punk.

Abby Normal wrote:

Rod Speed wrote:

Abby Normal wrote

Rod Speed wrote

Corse it will work fine. No reason why the secondary
system cant have a slightly lower than normal temperature
set so it recovers from the setback in a decent time and
then stops and leaves the primary system to get the temp
back up to normal. Thats going to happen fine since the
temp difference is well within its capabilitys.

If you shut the booster off before the central area
gets up to temp and rely on the primary system
then bringing it up to temperature then, this central
area catches up quick compared to the rest of the house.

Wrong. The primary system which keeps the house at a uniform
temp when setback isnt used keeps doing that fine when you
use anything to get the central area back off setback.


Okay, the setback period ends, the primary system is running steady
trying to bring the whole house back up to temperature. Maybe has to
try and bring the whole house up by 5 degrees.

But a second system only serving in the central area also turns on.

So perhaps in one half hours time, the primary system has brought the
whole house temperature up by a degree and the secondary system has
brought up the central area by another 3 degrees.

The secondary system cycles off, and the primary system runs for
another hour has fianlly recovered the 5 degrees of set back. This was
done by the primary system supplying two degrees of reheat and the
secondary system providing 3 degrees of reheat.

But now, you need to think about where that primary system thermostat
is.

If that primary system thermostat is in the central area, it is
satisified. That means the rest of the house gets no more heat until
the central area cools off. So the rooms have recovered two degrees of
heat (actually probably a slight amount more) and the primary system is
off.

So you really need to think, of a better way to control the primary
system it is a doomed system to have the stat in the central area. You
also need to think about how to get extra heat above what the primary
system can normally supply to the rooms to assist them in recovery.


Doesnt matter if thats a ductless split system,
solar, a wood stove, or even a furnace etc.


Hey could be an electric heater in that room, will not work as well as
the strips. Solar will help after your scheme fails, it would warm up
the east rooms anyways.


Not much heat from that booster trickling
into the rooms in that time frame.


When the primary system is running and the central area has recovered,
the average return air temperature to the primary system will elevate
slightly. This results in a slightly elevated supply temperature to the
cool rooms and marginally helps them recover.


Complete pig ignorant drivel.


Maybe the central area gets back 4 out of 5 degrees
in one half hour, and in another hour, the central area
warms up the last degree. Primary system is off.


Maybe read above and other posts and you will finally see the light. I
feel bad beating you up here.


No it aint. Thats why you set the stat on the ductless split system
to a bit below the normal temp that the primary stat is set to.



Try it one more time grasshopper

You set the stat on the ductless split system lower than the primary
system. So the central area was set back to 65F. The primary stat is
set for 70F when setback ends and the ductless split stat is set for
69F when setback ends.

So at the end of the setback period, the room is 65F and that just
happens to be lower than the setting of the primary system stat and the
booster system stat. Guess what, both systems run.

So the primary system puts a portion of its heat output to the central
area and the remainder to the rest of the house and the ductless system
puts its entire heat output in the central area.

The heat output of two systems to the central area, elevates the
temperature area of the central area much faster than in the rooms.

So by the time the ductless system has switched off, the central area
is now 69F and the remainder of the house maybe 66F.

The primary system keeps running and it raisws the central area by
another degree without the help of the ductless system and the central
area is now 70F, and the primary systems TURNS OFF.

In the same time period, the rooms have also been heated by an
additional degree and they are now at 67F. But the primary system is
OFF, until the central area cools off and the primary system comes back
on. But the rooms cool off a little bit too.

So you are not going to recover the room temperature with any success
with the ductless split in the central area only.


The primary system has enough capacity to maintain
the temps properly without setback, the only problem
is that it needs to use the strips to come back off setback
quickly enough. The secondary system JUST replaces
the strips and is a lot cheaper to run than the strips.


No heat to the rooms.

Wrong, as always. Same heat to the rooms
as you get without setback being used.


The rooms will not recover with the auxiliary heat source in the
central area.


So you really need to think about your controls
and where exactly to put that primary stat.

No you dont, whatever works fine with no setback
will still work fine with setback and some system
to replace the strips when coming back off setback.


The central area being warmed up does not help the rooms much, maybe a
4 to 8 percent heat boost to the rooms above what the primary system
would normally supply.


Rooms are no where close to warming up. Only way
to warm up rooms is to over heat the central area.

Thanks for that completey superfluous proof that you have
never ever had a ****ing clue about the basics, and why
the best you have ever managed is drunken HVAC ape.


Strips will warm the whole place up. The ductless
booster can't without overheating the 'core'.


Strips will warm up the whole place-- thats an apple

The booster in the central area will warm up mainly the central area,
that is the pathetic orange. The primary system has warmed up the rooms
as much as it can. The rooms do not benefit much from the central
booster system.

If you elevate the temperature in the central area with the booster
system, then it will help the rooms recover, but it is just a stupid
idea.


Thanks for that completey superfluous proof that you have
never ever had a ****ing clue about the basics, and why
the best you have ever managed is drunken HVAC ape.

Reams of pathetic attempt at a troll that any 2 year
old could leave for dead flushed where it belongs.


I think you should drop the '****ing clue about the basics' from you
repettoire, it makes you look the most foolish of them all.

Read this one over a few times grasshoopper and think.

You seem to be enjoying this
I think he gets that he's cornered, but he's a fighter. He might run out
and bite your ankle though if you keep tormenting him. The fight or
flight response reduces to only the fight response when there is nowhere
to run. A cornered animal would never contemplate defeat, it isn't in
their nature.

hvacrmedic

Abby Normal wrote

You want some other system besides the strips, then get some
other system inline with the air coming off the primary system.

Sure, you could put the ductless split system output there.

It'll work fine in the central area tho.

Or put a booster unit in each room

No need.

Or put another ducted system in,

Stupid approach.

either figure out how to make it share the
same ductwork or put in its own ductwork.

Any way you look at it, the central booster
is a dog. And that dog don't hunt.

Wrong, as always.

No surprise that you are a drunken unemployable HVAC ape.

Abby Normal wrote

You want some other system besides the strips, then get some
other system inline with the air coming off the primary system.

Sure, you could put the ductless split system output there.

It'll work fine in the central area tho.

Or put a booster unit in each room

No need.

Or put another ducted system in,

Stupid approach.

either figure out how to make it share the
same ductwork or put in its own ductwork.

Any way you look at it, the central booster
is a dog. And that dog don't hunt.

Wrong, as always.

And your original pig ignorant claim that setback cant work with
heat pumps clearly always was just plain pig ignorant drivel.

No surprise that you are a drunken unemployable HVAC ape.

Rod Speed wrote:
Abby Normal wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Abby Normal wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Corse it will work fine. No reason why the secondary
system cant have a slightly lower than normal temperature
set so it recovers from the setback in a decent time and
then stops and leaves the primary system to get the temp
back up to normal. Thats going to happen fine since the
temp difference is well within its capabilitys.

If you shut the booster off before the central area
gets up to temp and rely on the primary system
then bringing it up to temperature then, this central
area catches up quick compared to the rest of the house.

Wrong. The primary system which keeps the house at a uniform
temp when setback isnt used keeps doing that fine when you
use anything to get the central area back off setback.

Okay, the setback period ends, the primary system is running
steady trying to bring the whole house back up to temperature.
Maybe has to try and bring the whole house up by 5 degrees.

But a second system only serving in the central area also turns on.

So perhaps in one half hours time, the primary system has brought
the whole house temperature up by a degree and the secondary
system has brought up the central area by another 3 degrees.

The secondary system cycles off,

No it doesnt, it hasnt got the central area up to the normal temp, stupid.

and the primary system runs for another hour
has fianlly recovered the 5 degrees of set back.

You are setting the secondary system lower than the primary system, so
the secondary system cylces off first.

Wrong again, the new central temp is distributed to the other rooms
by the secondary system and the whole system gets back to the
normal temp as fast as the secondary system can get it back.

The new central temp, that is approaching 70F is distributed to the
other rooms by the ductless secondary system. Hey that sure works. 70F
air to a cold room teleported magically ought to just recover great.
Anyone with enough brains to cash a welfare cheque can't be that
stupid, you are just trying to steal the fishing rod from me.


This was done by the primary system supplying two degrees of
reheat and the secondary system providing 3 degrees of reheat.

Wrong, as always.

But now, you need to think about where
that primary system thermostat is.

Nope.

If that primary system thermostat is in the central area,
it is satisified. That means the rest of the house gets
no more heat until the central area cools off.

Wrong, it circulates the normal temp air from the central area
to the other rooms while the central area is recovering from
the setback. It just isnt adding much heat to that circulated air.

Well I guess you could run the fan steady when the primary thermostat
was satisfied, the room temps will slightly rise and this helps cool
down the central area to the point that the primary system comes back
on. But the problem is this is a mickey mouse amount of heat and will
be at a lower rate than what the room loses due to the outdoor ambient.


Then the primary system comes on central area hits 70 and it shuts off
again, repeats over and over until finally, until long after everyone
froze their ass off in the shower, went to work, the outdoor ambinet
rises, the sun starts shining and the house finally recovers.

The central booster is worse than Zeno's paradox or is it Xeno? You got
a dead dog rocket.


The WHOLE HOUSE will come back off the setback at a rate
which is determined by how quickly the secondary system can
provide the heat required to come off the setback.

The secondary system by your own description is set to shut off before
the primary system does. So you have recovered the temperature in the
central area. Not doing much of anything in the rooms tho.

So the rooms have recovered two degrees of
heat (actually probably a slight amount more)

The WHOLE HOUSE comes back off the setback
because the central air is still circulated by the
primary system, just like it is when no setback is used.

and the primary system is off.

I'll tell you what, if you want a piping hot wood stove or the
fireplace in the central area and you crank up the heat in that central
area, then by running the fan of a 'primary system' you are going to
get some heat into the rooms. The central area is going to be quite
warm for this to happen.

So maybe you have some scrap wood or dried up kangaroo dung to burn and
get some free heat and an elevated temp in the central area hey, you
have proven you can circulate air and warm up rooms. You want to get
the same elevated temperature using a ductless heat pump in a central
area and you are using more power than a heat strip.

Really if you have enough brains to fill out a form to apply for
welfare, how can you even think this.

Man oh man, I thought I was trolling the troll. Now the fish is
fighting back. I think I am just going to have to reel it in and club
it now.

No it isnt.

So you really need to think, of a better way to control the primary
system it is a doomed system to have the stat in the central area.

That wont give a uniform temp in the house with no setback used, stupid.

You also need to think about how to get extra heat above what the primary
system can normally supply to the rooms to assist them in recovery.

Nope, that comes from the secondary system, circulated by the primary system.

Doesnt matter if thats a ductless split system,
solar, a wood stove, or even a furnace etc.

Hey could be an electric heater in that
room, will not work as well as the strips.

Well enough.

Solar will help after your scheme fails, it
would warm up the east rooms anyways.

The primary system has to be able to handle the
inevitable that the rooms on the sunny side will get
solar and the rooms on the other side wont, stupid.

I will translate it for you then. Your set back scheme does not work so
they freeze their asses of in the morning. However after the sun
finally rises the east side of the house may recover.

Not much heat from that booster trickling
into the rooms in that time frame.

Complete pig ignorant drivel.

When the primary system is running and the central
area has recovered, the average return air temperature
to the primary system will elevate slightly.

Lot more than slightly because its the central area, stupid.

Sure can be a lot more if you crank up the secondary system to get it
up to 80 in the central area. You are trying too hard to get that
fishing rod back.

This results in a slightly elevated supply temperature
to the cool rooms and marginally helps them recover.

The primary system keeps the temperature uniform,
just like it does with no setback used, stupid.

Try a code system

assign numeric values to strings such as "primary", "uniform", "pig"
etc, then use a random number generator. Write a little program to
convert the random numbers back to strings and you have more sensible
sounding responses.

If you can't access a random number generator maybe do like the old
'numbers' gambling system. A good source of numbers to use and later
convert to strings could be the cheque numbers on your welfare cheques.

You spell with the Queen's English down there right?

Reams of your pathetic excuse for a troll flushed where it belongs.

No wonder the best you have ever been able to
manage is drunken unemployable HVAC ape.

Rod Speed wrote:
Abby Normal wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Abby Normal wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Corse it will work fine. No reason why the secondary
system cant have a slightly lower than normal temperature
set so it recovers from the setback in a decent time and
then stops and leaves the primary system to get the temp
back up to normal. Thats going to happen fine since the
temp difference is well within its capabilitys.

If you shut the booster off before the central area
gets up to temp and rely on the primary system
then bringing it up to temperature then, this central
area catches up quick compared to the rest of the house.

Wrong. The primary system which keeps the house at a uniform
temp when setback isnt used keeps doing that fine when you
use anything to get the central area back off setback.

Okay, the setback period ends, the primary system is running
steady trying to bring the whole house back up to temperature.
Maybe has to try and bring the whole house up by 5 degrees.

But a second system only serving in the central area also turns on.

So perhaps in one half hours time, the primary system has brought
the whole house temperature up by a degree and the secondary
system has brought up the central area by another 3 degrees.

The secondary system cycles off,

No it doesnt, it hasnt got the central area up to the normal temp, stupid.

and the primary system runs for another hour
has fianlly recovered the 5 degrees of set back.

You are setting the secondary system lower than the primary system, so
the secondary system cylces off first.

Wrong again, the new central temp is distributed to the other rooms
by the secondary system and the whole system gets back to the
normal temp as fast as the secondary system can get it back.

The new central temp, that is approaching 70F is distributed to the
other rooms by the ductless secondary system. Hey that sure works. 70F
air to a cold room teleported magically ought to just recover great.
Anyone with enough brains to cash a welfare cheque can't be that
stupid, you are just trying to steal the fishing rod from me.


This was done by the primary system supplying two degrees of
reheat and the secondary system providing 3 degrees of reheat.

Wrong, as always.

But now, you need to think about where
that primary system thermostat is.

Nope.

If that primary system thermostat is in the central area,
it is satisified. That means the rest of the house gets
no more heat until the central area cools off.

Wrong, it circulates the normal temp air from the central area
to the other rooms while the central area is recovering from
the setback. It just isnt adding much heat to that circulated air.

Well I guess you could run the fan steady when the primary thermostat
was satisfied, the room temps will slightly rise and this helps cool
down the central area to the point that the primary system comes back
on. But the problem is this is a mickey mouse amount of heat and will
be at a lower rate than what the room loses due to the outdoor ambient.


Then the primary system comes on central area hits 70 and it shuts off
again, repeats over and over until finally, until long after everyone
froze their ass off in the shower, went to work, the outdoor ambinet
rises, the sun starts shining and the house finally recovers.

The central booster is worse than Zeno's paradox or is it Xeno? You got
a dead dog rocket.


The WHOLE HOUSE will come back off the setback at a rate
which is determined by how quickly the secondary system can
provide the heat required to come off the setback.

The secondary system by your own description is set to shut off before
the primary system does. So you have recovered the temperature in the
central area. Not doing much of anything in the rooms tho.

So the rooms have recovered two degrees of
heat (actually probably a slight amount more)

The WHOLE HOUSE comes back off the setback
because the central air is still circulated by the
primary system, just like it is when no setback is used.

and the primary system is off.

I'll tell you what, if you want a piping hot wood stove or the
fireplace in the central area and you crank up the heat in that central
area, then by running the fan of a 'primary system' you are going to
get some heat into the rooms. The central area is going to be quite
warm for this to happen.

So maybe you have some scrap wood or dried up kangaroo dung to burn and
get some free heat and an elevated temp in the central area hey, you
have proven you can circulate air and warm up rooms. You want to get
the same elevated temperature using a ductless heat pump in a central
area and you are using more power than a heat strip.

Really if you have enough brains to fill out a form to apply for
welfare, how can you even think this.

Man oh man, I thought I was trolling the troll. Now the fish is
fighting back. I think I am just going to have to reel it in and club
it now.

No it isnt.

So you really need to think, of a better way to control the primary
system it is a doomed system to have the stat in the central area.

That wont give a uniform temp in the house with no setback used, stupid.

You also need to think about how to get extra heat above what the primary
system can normally supply to the rooms to assist them in recovery.

Nope, that comes from the secondary system, circulated by the primary system.

Doesnt matter if thats a ductless split system,
solar, a wood stove, or even a furnace etc.

Hey could be an electric heater in that
room, will not work as well as the strips.

Well enough.

Solar will help after your scheme fails, it
would warm up the east rooms anyways.

The primary system has to be able to handle the
inevitable that the rooms on the sunny side will get
solar and the rooms on the other side wont, stupid.

I will translate it for you then. Your set back scheme does not work so
they freeze their asses of in the morning. However after the sun
finally rises the east side of the house may recover.

Not much heat from that booster trickling
into the rooms in that time frame.

Complete pig ignorant drivel.

When the primary system is running and the central
area has recovered, the average return air temperature
to the primary system will elevate slightly.

Lot more than slightly because its the central area, stupid.

Sure can be a lot more if you crank up the secondary system to get it
up to 80 in the central area. You are trying too hard to get that
fishing rod back.

This results in a slightly elevated supply temperature
to the cool rooms and marginally helps them recover.

The primary system keeps the temperature uniform,
just like it does with no setback used, stupid.

Try a code system

assign numeric values to strings such as "primary", "uniform", "pig"
etc, then use a random number generator. Write a little program to
convert the random numbers back to strings and you have more sensible
sounding responses.

If you can't access a random number generator maybe do like the old
'numbers' gambling system. A good source of numbers to use and later
convert to strings could be the cheque numbers on your welfare cheques.

You spell with the Queen's English down there right?

Reams of your pathetic excuse for a troll flushed where it belongs.

No wonder the best you have ever been able to
manage is drunken unemployable HVAC ape.

RP wrote:
You seem to be enjoying this
I think he gets that he's cornered, but he's a fighter. He might run out
and bite your ankle though if you keep tormenting him. The fight or
flight response reduces to only the fight response when there is nowhere
to run. A cornered animal would never contemplate defeat, it isn't in
their nature.

hvacrmedic

A cornered animal perhaps, but more like turtle. I gave him an out, but
he refuses to try.

He will retract into his shell and just counter with his standard
repettoire. The trick is to get him to stick his head out of the shell.

You need to get him to say something other than the repettoire and he
crucifies himself.

I think he figures he is trying the Ali Rope-a-Dope, but he needs to
look out for the Parkinsons.

Abby Normal wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Abby Normal wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Abby Normal wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Corse it will work fine. No reason why the secondary
system cant have a slightly lower than normal temperature
set so it recovers from the setback in a decent time and
then stops and leaves the primary system to get the temp
back up to normal. Thats going to happen fine since the
temp difference is well within its capabilitys.

If you shut the booster off before the central area
gets up to temp and rely on the primary system
then bringing it up to temperature then, this central
area catches up quick compared to the rest of the house.

Wrong. The primary system which keeps the house at a uniform
temp when setback isnt used keeps doing that fine when you
use anything to get the central area back off setback.

Okay, the setback period ends, the primary system is running
steady trying to bring the whole house back up to temperature.
Maybe has to try and bring the whole house up by 5 degrees.

But a second system only serving in the central area also turns on.

So perhaps in one half hours time, the primary system has brought
the whole house temperature up by a degree and the secondary
system has brought up the central area by another 3 degrees.

The secondary system cycles off,

No it doesnt, it hasnt got the central area up to the normal temp, stupid.

and the primary system runs for another hour
has fianlly recovered the 5 degrees of set back.

You are setting the secondary system lower than the
primary system, so the secondary system cylces off first.

ONLY when its got back to the normal temp.

Wrong again, the new central temp is distributed to the other rooms
by the secondary system and the whole system gets back to the
normal temp as fast as the secondary system can get it back.

The new central temp, that is approaching 70F is distributed
to the other rooms by the ductless secondary system.

Just a type, by the primary system, stupid.

This was done by the primary system supplying two degrees of
reheat and the secondary system providing 3 degrees of reheat.

Wrong, as always.

But now, you need to think about where
that primary system thermostat is.

Nope.

If that primary system thermostat is in the central area,
it is satisified. That means the rest of the house gets
no more heat until the central area cools off.

Wrong, it circulates the normal temp air from the central area
to the other rooms while the central area is recovering from
the setback. It just isnt adding much heat to that circulated air.

Well I guess you could run the fan steady
when the primary thermostat was satisfied,

Dont need to, there's a reason the secondary thermostat
is set a little below the normal temp, stupid.

the room temps will slightly rise and this helps cool down the
central area to the point that the primary system comes back on.

Taint gunna happen, because the primary system has been
distributing the increase temp in the central area right thru the
time when the secondary system is coming back off setback.

But the problem is this is a mickey mouse amount of heat

Wrong, as always.

and will be at a lower rate than what the
room loses due to the outdoor ambient.

Complete pig ignorant drivel. If that was so, the system wouldnt
be able to maintain temps properly without setback stupid.

Then the primary system comes on central
area hits 70 and it shuts off again,

Wrong, as always. Its thermostat is set a bit higher
than the one on the secondary system so it will
continue to distribute the central temp to the other rooms,
just like it did right thru the time coming off setback.

The WHOLE HOUSE will come back off the setback at a rate
which is determined by how quickly the secondary system can
provide the heat required to come off the setback.

The secondary system by your own description is set to shut off before
the primary system does. So you have recovered the temperature in the
central area. Not doing much of anything in the rooms tho.

Wrong, as always. The primary system will be distributing that
to the other rooms just like it does with no setback stupid.

So the rooms have recovered two degrees of
heat (actually probably a slight amount more)

The WHOLE HOUSE comes back off the setback
because the central air is still circulated by the
primary system, just like it is when no setback is used.

and the primary system is off.

I'll tell you what, if you want a piping hot wood stove or the
fireplace in the central area and you crank up the heat in that
central area, then by running the fan of a 'primary system'
you are going to get some heat into the rooms. The
central area is going to be quite warm for this to happen.

Wrong again when coming off setback.

Reams of your pathetic attempt at a troll flushed where it belongs.

No wonder the best you have ever been able to
manage is drunken unemployable HVAC ape.

George Grapman wrote:
I am very impressed that Rod cares so much about my seeing his rants
that he forged his name.


--
To reply via e-mail please delete 1 c from paccbell

Yes it shows you can effectively make him dance for you.

Rod Speed wrote:
Abby Normal wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Abby Normal wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Abby Normal wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Corse it will work fine. No reason why the secondary
system cant have a slightly lower than normal temperature
set so it recovers from the setback in a decent time and
then stops and leaves the primary system to get the temp
back up to normal. Thats going to happen fine since the
temp difference is well within its capabilitys.

If you shut the booster off before the central area
gets up to temp and rely on the primary system
then bringing it up to temperature then, this central
area catches up quick compared to the rest of the house.

Wrong. The primary system which keeps the house at a uniform
temp when setback isnt used keeps doing that fine when you
use anything to get the central area back off setback.

Okay, the setback period ends, the primary system is running
steady trying to bring the whole house back up to temperature.
Maybe has to try and bring the whole house up by 5 degrees.

But a second system only serving in the central area also turns on.

So perhaps in one half hours time, the primary system has brought
the whole house temperature up by a degree and the secondary
system has brought up the central area by another 3 degrees.

The secondary system cycles off,

No it doesnt, it hasnt got the central area up to the normal temp, stupid.

and the primary system runs for another hour
has fianlly recovered the 5 degrees of set back.

You are setting the secondary system lower than the
primary system, so the secondary system cylces off first.

ONLY when its got back to the normal temp.

See without clearly summarizing what you are trying to do, you can keep
up this three card monte. At least it expands your vocabulary.

You are already setting the secondary system thermostat lower than the
primary system thermostat, so the secondary system cylces off before it
reaches the temperature set point of the primary system.

The primary system then brings the central area up to temperature then
the heat shuts off otherwise you are overheating the central area.

Wrong again, the new central temp is distributed to the other rooms
by the secondary system and the whole system gets back to the
normal temp as fast as the secondary system can get it back.

The new central temp, that is approaching 70F is distributed
to the other rooms by the ductless secondary system.

Just a type, by the primary system, stupid.

You are not quite coherent here. At least you did not repeat your last
mistake saying a ductless split system is distributing heat through out
the house. You took your eyes off of the cards and confused yourself,
too funny there rocket.

This was done by the primary system supplying two degrees of
reheat and the secondary system providing 3 degrees of reheat.

Wrong, as always.

But now, you need to think about where
that primary system thermostat is.

Nope.

If that primary system thermostat is in the central area,
it is satisified. That means the rest of the house gets
no more heat until the central area cools off.

Wrong, it circulates the normal temp air from the central area
to the other rooms while the central area is recovering from
the setback. It just isnt adding much heat to that circulated air.

Well I guess you could run the fan steady
when the primary thermostat was satisfied,

Dont need to, there's a reason the secondary thermostat
is set a little below the normal temp, stupid.


And by that reason, the secondary system never brings the central area
up to temperature. It stops short of doing so, and forces the primary
system to finally bring up the central area to temperature.

All the secondary system has done, has reduced the run time of the
primary system as the central area warms back up. The other rooms
cannot recover by your scheme.

You know this, it is just in your mind, you are fooling yourself in
thinking that as long as you keep coming back with this drivel, you do
not look like an idiot.

Kind of like a fat chick in tight jeans asking "Do these jeans make my
ass look fat?" You truthfully answer NO as the jeans are not making her
look fat because she already is fat. But hearing that "NO" she then
fools her self into thinking she is a hottie and struts her stuff in
Public.

If the 'chick' term confuses you, substitue the term "shelia" mate.

the room temps will slightly rise and this helps cool down the
central area to the point that the primary system comes back on.

Taint gunna happen, because the primary system has been
distributing the increase temp in the central area right thru the
time when the secondary system is coming back off setback.

Well your reasoning would work if the central area was very hot, but
then that harpoons you one more time.

But the problem is this is a mickey mouse amount of heat

Wrong, as always.

You already mentioned minimal heat, maybe you did not like the disney
reference

and will be at a lower rate than what the
room loses due to the outdoor ambient.


Complete pig ignorant drivel. If that was so, the system wouldnt
be able to maintain temps properly without setback stupid.

Hey you can have a primary system as big as you want, but when its
thermostat says it is warm, it shuts off. So I gave you a hint before
about motorized dampers on the primary supplies to the central area,
just that it creates additional expense and more problems.

Just work it all out and summarize the system. Hey all the power to
you, come on give me one of those nose rubbings you have been bragging
about. Geez man, I have even conceded a dry subtropical climate and you
cannot do it. Does your mother still wipe your ass for you too?

Then the primary system comes on central
area hits 70 and it shuts off again,

Wrong, as always. Its thermostat is set a bit higher
than the one on the secondary system so it will
continue to distribute the central temp to the other rooms,
just like it did right thru the time coming off setback.

Well clarify the the set points of the two systems to make your case
then.

The primary system runs, heats the entire home and then shuts off early
as the central area recovers faster than the rest of the house because
of your stupid booster. So you can overheat the central area and
continue to add heat to the rooms to. You will end up using more heat
and energy than the strips unfortunately.

I already showed you how to work out what the return temperature going
into the heat pump will be, a simple weighted average of the
temperatures of the central area and those of the rooms.

The supply temp to the rooms has to be about 25 degrees warmer than the
room to maintain temperature. If the primary system cycles off the
heat, but the fan keeps running, the elevated return temperature of the
central area only causes a return temperature to the heat pump to be a
couple degrees warmer than the room air temperatures (which have not
yet recovered). So the constant circulation cannot supply enough heat
to even keep up with the heat loss of the rooms, so the rooms start
cooling off as soon as the primary heat system is off.

The WHOLE HOUSE will come back off the setback at a rate
which is determined by how quickly the secondary system can
provide the heat required to come off the setback.

Hey put a mini-split in each room and sure that will work. But you only
have one in the central area rocket.

I think I should promote you from rocket to Appollo. Hey give up now
and you will be Appollo 13, keep going and earn the title Appollo 1.

The secondary system by your own description is set to shut off before
the primary system does. So you have recovered the temperature in the
central area. Not doing much of anything in the rooms tho.

Wrong, as always. The primary system will be distributing that
to the other rooms just like it does with no setback stupid.

If there was no setback at all, and you actually knew how to design a
duct and heating system, then with the primary stat in the central
area, the primary system should be able to maintain the house at a
fairly uniform temperature especially at night.

The air flow to each room incuding the central area, is more or less
sufficient to maintain each room at the desired temperature.

So when you set the system back and then try to recover just using the
primary system, the temperatures start coming back to roughly the same
level at a similar rate. Never exact but close enough.

So now you are turning on a secondary system that just serves the
central area, and there is no longer heat distirbution properly
proportioned in the home, the central area recovers faster.

You are still stupid enough to have a single stat for the primary
system in the central area, so the central area warms up to temperature
and the primary system stops supplying heat. Keeping the fan running
does not help your case at all. It is like the fat sheila wearing
vertical stripes, she sitll is fat.

So the rooms have recovered two degrees of
heat (actually probably a slight amount more)

The WHOLE HOUSE comes back off the setback
because the central air is still circulated by the
primary system, just like it is when no setback is used.

When no setback is used, you have the primary system properly
distributing the heat. When you recover with just the primary system
you still have the primary system properly distributing heat. When you
recover with heat strips, the extra heat of the strips is properly
distributed through out the house, the house then recovovers quickly
and uniformly.

Any recovery scheme needs to properly proportion the 'surplus heat' to
bring the entire house up to a uniform temperature. Your ductless
secondary system can't do this. So maybe try tearing down all the
partition walls and making the house 'open concept.' Or if it was new
construction, use the savings of not having to build partition walls
and pay for the booster heat pump.

Other wise you need a ducted secondary system to do that and that
harpoons your whole plan as you do not know how to make the duct system
work without it being another expense that will never pay for itself.

Or of course you could also just put a little booster in each room as
well.

Maybe tinker with the fact of modifying the swamp cooler so that its
fan and duct work can give you even additional circulation (plus a kW
of fan/motor heat) and you could actually prove that you have been able
to recover on time, just a far cry from being viable. You need to add a
mixing box to get that swamp cooler just to re-circulate return air.

It is a shame an easy climate such as yours and you cannot even prove
that you can recover temperature.


and the primary system is off.

I'll tell you what, if you want a piping hot wood stove or the
fireplace in the central area and you crank up the heat in that
central area, then by running the fan of a 'primary system'
you are going to get some heat into the rooms. The
central area is going to be quite warm for this to happen.

Wrong again when coming off setback.

Reams of your pathetic attempt at a troll flushed where it belongs.

Ream, dream, drink some Jim Beam. You might as well you cannot even
come up with a Goldberg solution.


No wonder the best you have ever been able to
manage is drunken unemployable HVAC ape.

Please, I told you it is Mr. Ape Sir. When you figure out how you can
recover from a night time setback with a heat pump in a subtropical
climate then you may revert back to addressing me as lowly drunk ape.

On the sixth day of christmas appollo gave to me....................

close but no cigar, you forgot to allow for the 'pathological'
variation.

George you seem to have struck a nerve with welfare, could be a case of
the truth hurting.

I tried copying it but he would not bite the second time in a row. (:

Logan Shaw wrote:
Abby Normal wrote:
Rod Speed wrote:

Abby Normal wrote


come back and see me when you figured out how to
get multiple systems to share common duct work rookie.

Dont have to share the same ductwork, ****wit.

okay so you are going to instal 3 systems now, three independent duct
systems

I hate to say it, but I have to concur with Rod on this one. His
style of argumentation leaves a lot to be desired, but in this case,
I agree with his conclusion.

If you are coming off setback and using a secondary heat pump to
do only that, it doesn't need duct work. If it just heats the
air in one room, the primary system will be running continuously
(or nearly) and will be circulating the air around the house
anyway. Even if the secondary heat pump heats the air in one room
up to 95F in the process, eventually that'll even out as the other
system recirculates everything. And heating the air up to such a
high temperature is unlikely anyway, since by definition when
you are recovering from setback, the temperature is colder than
you'd really like it.

However, I do have to admit there could be problems if the secondary
heat pump (that's used only during recovery) is putting heat mainly
into the room with the thermostat. If the temperature in that room
rises faster than in the rest of the house, it could cause the
system to think recovery has finished when it hasn't yet gotten to
that point. And if the secondary heat pump is too far away from
the thermostat, it could cause the system to overshoot the target
and heat up the house too much. But, those are control issues
rather than duct issues, and they seem solvable.

- Logan

See rocket

Mr Logan thought you had a valid point there for a minute, you got a
little cocky, you ended up saying more than your usual reppettoire and
you hung yourself.

Abby Normal wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Abby Normal wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Abby Normal wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Abby Normal wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Corse it will work fine. No reason why the secondary
system cant have a slightly lower than normal temperature
set so it recovers from the setback in a decent time and
then stops and leaves the primary system to get the temp
back up to normal. Thats going to happen fine since the
temp difference is well within its capabilitys.

If you shut the booster off before the central area
gets up to temp and rely on the primary system
then bringing it up to temperature then, this central
area catches up quick compared to the rest of the house.

Wrong. The primary system which keeps the house at a uniform
temp when setback isnt used keeps doing that fine when you
use anything to get the central area back off setback.

Okay, the setback period ends, the primary system is running
steady trying to bring the whole house back up to temperature.
Maybe has to try and bring the whole house up by 5 degrees.

But a second system only serving in the central area also turns on.

So perhaps in one half hours time, the primary system has brought
the whole house temperature up by a degree and the secondary
system has brought up the central area by another 3 degrees.

The secondary system cycles off,

No it doesnt, it hasnt got the central area up to the normal temp, stupid.

and the primary system runs for another hour
has fianlly recovered the 5 degrees of set back.

You are setting the secondary system lower than the
primary system, so the secondary system cylces off first.

ONLY when its got back to the normal temp.

See without clearly summarizing what you are trying to do, you can
keep up this three card monte. At least it expands your vocabulary.

Couldnt bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

None of the rest of your pathetic excuse for a troll
worth bothering with, all flushed where it belongs.

No surprise that the best you have ever managed is drunken unemployable HVAC
ape.

Steve Scott wrote

Actually, without the sale, nothing else happens.

You dont need a sales ****wit to have a sale.

Even you should have noticed that it can be completely automated now.

Then you dont have the problem with pathological liars either.


latmu wrote

No surprise that the best you have ever been able to
manage is sales ****wit. Ideal 'job' for a pathological liar.

Abby Normal wrote

Couldnt bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

No surprise that the best its ever been able to manage
is drunken completely unemployable HVAC ape.

Rod Speed wrote:
Abby Normal wrote

Couldnt bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

No surprise that the best its ever been able to manage
is drunken completely unemployable HVAC ape.


Still taking about yourself, Mr. Welfare?

Rod Speed wrote:
Abby Normal wrote

Couldnt bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

No surprise that the best its ever been able to manage
is drunken completely unemployable HVAC ape.



As usual, refuted by facts Mr. Welfare can only reply with the usual
nonsense, a tacit admission that the welfare leech is wrong.

latmu wrote:
Steve Scott wrote

Actually, without the sale, nothing else happens.

You dont need a sales ****wit to have a sale.

Even you should have noticed that it can be completely automated now.

Then you dont have the problem with pathological liars either.


Oh, lookee. Mr Welfare made up a new name. Just because your welfare
check is automated does not mean real jobs are.
Tell us how an open house for real estate is automated. How about a
test drive for a car? Tell us how a retailer automates the layout and
text of an advertisement. How about a tv commercial?
While lonely welfare dolts might cherish automated phone calls to
solicit business real people respond better to a live call.


latmu wrote

No surprise that the best you have ever been able to
manage is sales ****wit. Ideal 'job' for a pathological liar.



What jobs have you managed, Mr. Welfare? Oh right, a fast food job
that lasted a few hours.

Rod Speed wroteur vocabulary.

Couldnt bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

None of the rest of your pathetic excuse for a troll
worth bothering with, all flushed where it belongs.

No surprise that the best you have ever managed is drunken unemployable HVAC
ape.



Another admission of failure from Mr. Welfare.


--
To reply via e-mail please delete 1 c from paccbell

William Souden wrote:
Rod Speed wrote:
Abby Normal wrote

Couldnt bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

No surprise that the best its ever been able to manage
is drunken completely unemployable HVAC ape.


Still taking about yourself, Mr. Welfare?

It obvious to see why he got laid off from HVAC. I hear there is a
shortage of manpower in New Zealand to clean cooling towers. Maybe he
could emigrate and get off the dole. Or is the dole just a pommie term?

Abby Normal wrote:

It obvious to see why he got laid off from HVAC. I hear there is a
shortage of manpower in New Zealand to clean cooling towers. Maybe he
could emigrate and get off the dole. Or is the dole just a pommie term?


He never worked in that field He has had one job. He was working in
fast food place. Unwilling to be civil to customers he was moved to the
grill. When he dropped a burger the manager told him not to worry as we
all make mistakes. Rod got upset , said he never makes mistakes, and
blamed others. At that point he was assigned to cleaning the rest rooms
but all he did was repeatedly flush the toilet while yelling "reams of
puerile **** flushed down the toilet".
He was fired in less than three hours and went back on welfare.
Each no case worker is given his file and the pray from the day when
some new employee is hired.
Ros is no different fro the rest of use save for the fact that he
lacks a job, education, logic, knowledge, social skill, grammar,
spelling, social skills, friends and a life.

Was it the Golden Arches or Billabong Burger?

Abby Normal wrote

Couldnt bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

No surprise that the best its ever been able to manage
is drunken completely unemployable HVAC ape.

The Rod Speed FAQ

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Who or What is Rod Speed?

Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed is an
insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can enhance his own
self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard man" on the InterNet.

Why is Rod Speed worth a FAQ?

You need to brush up on your NetSpeak. Rod most certainly isn't worth a
FUQ in anybody's opinion except his own.

Rod certainly posts a lot. Why is that?

It relates back to the point about boosting his own self esteem by what
amounts to effectively having a wank in public. Rod's personality, as
exemplified by his posts, means he is practically unemployable which means
he sits around at home all day festering away and getting worse and worse.
This means he posts more and more try and boost the old failing self
esteem. Being unemployed also means he has a lot of time on his hands to
post in the first place.

But maybe Rod really is a very clever and knowledgable person?

Clever? His posts wouldn't support that theory. As far as being
knowledgable, well, Rod has posted to various aus newsgroups including
invest, comms, and politics. He has posted to all as a self professed
"expert" and flames any and all who disagree with him. Logically, there's
no way any single individual could be more than a jack of all trades across
such a wide spread of subject matter.

But maybe Rod really is an expert in some areas?

Possibly. However, his "bedside manner" prevents him from being taken
seriously by most normal people. Also, he has damaged his credibility in
areas where he might know what he's on about by shooting himself in the foot
in areas where he does not. For example, in the case of subject matter such
as politics, even a view held by Albert Einstein cannot be little more than
an opinion and to vociferously denigrate an opposing opinion is simply small
mindedness and bigotry, the kind of which Einstein himself fought against
his whole life.

What is Rod Speed's main modus operandi?

Simple! He shoots off a half brained opinion in response to any other post
and touts that opinion as fact. When challenged, he responds with
vociferous and rabid denigration. He has an instantly recognisable set of
schoolboy put downs limited pretty much to the following: "Pathetic,
Puerile, Little Boy, try harder, trivial, more lies, gutless wonder, ******,
etc etc". The fact that Rod has been unable to come up with any new
insults says a lot about his outlook and intelligence.

But why do so many people respond to Rod in turn?

It has to do with effrontery and a lack of logic. Most people who post
have some basis of reason for what they write and when Rod retorts with his
usual denigration and derision they respond emotionally rather than
logically. It's like a teacher in a class room who has a misbehaving
pupil. The teacher challenges the pupil to explain himself and the student
responds with "**** off, Big Nose!" Even thought the teacher has a fairly
normal proboscis, he gets a dent in his self-esteem and might resort to an
emotional repsonse like "yeah? well your dick wouldn't fill a pop rivet,
punk", which merely invites some oneupmanship from the naughty pupil. Of
course, the teacher should not have justified the initial comment with a
response, especially in front of the class. The correct response was
"please report to the headmaster's office right NOW!"

What is a "RodBot"?

Some respondents in aus.invest built a "virtual Rod" which was indiscernable
from the "real" Rod. Net users could enter an opinion or even a fact and
the RodBot would tell them they were pathetic lying schoolboys who should be
able to do better or some equally pithy Rod Speedism.

Are you saying that Rod Speed is a Troll?

You got it!

What is the best way to handle Rod Speed?

KillFile!

Steve Scott wrote
latmu wrote
Steve Scott wrote

Actually, without the sale, nothing else happens.

You dont need a sales ****wit to have a sale.

Seems like you should really consider the sales field then.

Must be a sales ****wit.

Even you should have noticed that it can be completely automated now.

For small sales, yes. We happened to buy
our last car, couch, bed all belly to belly.

Your problem. I'd personally buy all of those online myself.

Ideally have an ape deliver the car to my house unless it
would be cheaper to order it online and pick it up in person.

I order the gigantic widescreen TV online, on ebay actually,
and got the replacement hot water service online too.

The last thing I ever need is any damned fool sales ****wit involved.

Then you dont have the problem with pathological liars either.

Well, that'd be fortunate as you certainly
have to deal with them on the net.

Not when buying stuff I dont. The consumer legislation and using a
card or paypal to buy them fixes that problem very effectively indeed.

Sales ****wits completey automated out of existence ? Sooner the better.

Welfare leech, unemployable Rod Speed posting as latmu wrote:
Steve Scott wrote
latmu wrote
Steve Scott wrote

Actually, without the sale, nothing else happens.

You dont need a sales ****wit to have a sale.

Seems like you should really consider the sales field then.

Must be a sales ****wit.

Even you should have noticed that it can be completely automated now.

For small sales, yes. We happened to buy
our last car, couch, bed all belly to belly.

Your problem. I'd personally buy all of those online myself.

Ideally have an ape deliver the car to my house unless it
would be cheaper to order it online and pick it up in person.

I order the gigantic widescreen TV online, on ebay actually,
and got the replacement hot water service online too.

The last thing I ever need is any damned fool sales ****wit involved.

Then you dont have the problem with pathological liars either.

Well, that'd be fortunate as you certainly
have to deal with them on the net.

Not when buying stuff I dont. The consumer legislation and using a
card or paypal to buy them fixes that problem very effectively indeed.

Sales ****wits completey automated out of existence ? Sooner the better.


First of all a welfare leech like you can not afford those things.
Secondly tell us how a house or a car (especially a used one) can be
sold without a sales rep?
Do you think tv and radio stations along with newspapers just sit and
wait for advertising to walk in the door? Lacking any job experience you
might believe that.
My guess is that you once tried some menial sales job such as magazine
subscriptions on the phone and, for obvious reasons, were turned down.
We understand your bitterness as you have no job,life,money, skills,
education, communication skills or friends.
That Rod Speed FAQ says it all.

"Abby Normal" wrote in message
oups.com...

William Souden wrote:
Rod Speed wrote:
Abby Normal wrote

Couldnt bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

No surprise that the best its ever been able to manage
is drunken completely unemployable HVAC ape.


Still taking about yourself, Mr. Welfare?

It obvious to see why he got laid off from HVAC. I hear there is a
shortage of manpower in New Zealand to clean cooling towers. Maybe he
could emigrate and get off the dole. Or is the dole just a pommie term?


Dole has great fruit cocktail.....

"Red Neckerson" wrote in message
newsuwqf.7146$vJ4.4903@trnddc07...

"Abby Normal" wrote in message
oups.com...

William Souden wrote:
Rod Speed wrote:
Abby Normal wrote

Couldnt bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.

No surprise that the best its ever been able to manage
is drunken completely unemployable HVAC ape.


Still taking about yourself, Mr. Welfare?

It obvious to see why he got laid off from HVAC. I hear there is a
shortage of manpower in New Zealand to clean cooling towers. Maybe he
could emigrate and get off the dole. Or is the dole just a pommie term?


Dole has great fruit cocktail.....


No ****. Dump in some Sangria or even some gin or rum and it gets even
better!