Rod Speed wrote:
Abby Normal wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Abby Normal wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Abby Normal wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Corse it will work fine. No reason why the secondary
system cant have a slightly lower than normal temperature
set so it recovers from the setback in a decent time and
then stops and leaves the primary system to get the temp
back up to normal. Thats going to happen fine since the
temp difference is well within its capabilitys.

If you shut the booster off before the central area
gets up to temp and rely on the primary system
then bringing it up to temperature then, this central
area catches up quick compared to the rest of the house.

Wrong. The primary system which keeps the house at a uniform
temp when setback isnt used keeps doing that fine when you
use anything to get the central area back off setback.

Okay, the setback period ends, the primary system is running
steady trying to bring the whole house back up to temperature.
Maybe has to try and bring the whole house up by 5 degrees.

But a second system only serving in the central area also turns on.

So perhaps in one half hours time, the primary system has brought
the whole house temperature up by a degree and the secondary
system has brought up the central area by another 3 degrees.

The secondary system cycles off,

No it doesnt, it hasnt got the central area up to the normal temp, stupid.

and the primary system runs for another hour
has fianlly recovered the 5 degrees of set back.

You are setting the secondary system lower than the
primary system, so the secondary system cylces off first.

ONLY when its got back to the normal temp.

See without clearly summarizing what you are trying to do, you can keep
up this three card monte. At least it expands your vocabulary.

You are already setting the secondary system thermostat lower than the
primary system thermostat, so the secondary system cylces off before it
reaches the temperature set point of the primary system.

The primary system then brings the central area up to temperature then
the heat shuts off otherwise you are overheating the central area.

Wrong again, the new central temp is distributed to the other rooms
by the secondary system and the whole system gets back to the
normal temp as fast as the secondary system can get it back.

The new central temp, that is approaching 70F is distributed
to the other rooms by the ductless secondary system.

Just a type, by the primary system, stupid.

You are not quite coherent here. At least you did not repeat your last
mistake saying a ductless split system is distributing heat through out
the house. You took your eyes off of the cards and confused yourself,
too funny there rocket.

This was done by the primary system supplying two degrees of
reheat and the secondary system providing 3 degrees of reheat.

Wrong, as always.

But now, you need to think about where
that primary system thermostat is.

Nope.

If that primary system thermostat is in the central area,
it is satisified. That means the rest of the house gets
no more heat until the central area cools off.

Wrong, it circulates the normal temp air from the central area
to the other rooms while the central area is recovering from
the setback. It just isnt adding much heat to that circulated air.

Well I guess you could run the fan steady
when the primary thermostat was satisfied,

Dont need to, there's a reason the secondary thermostat
is set a little below the normal temp, stupid.


And by that reason, the secondary system never brings the central area
up to temperature. It stops short of doing so, and forces the primary
system to finally bring up the central area to temperature.

All the secondary system has done, has reduced the run time of the
primary system as the central area warms back up. The other rooms
cannot recover by your scheme.

You know this, it is just in your mind, you are fooling yourself in
thinking that as long as you keep coming back with this drivel, you do
not look like an idiot.

Kind of like a fat chick in tight jeans asking "Do these jeans make my
ass look fat?" You truthfully answer NO as the jeans are not making her
look fat because she already is fat. But hearing that "NO" she then
fools her self into thinking she is a hottie and struts her stuff in
Public.

If the 'chick' term confuses you, substitue the term "shelia" mate.

the room temps will slightly rise and this helps cool down the
central area to the point that the primary system comes back on.

Taint gunna happen, because the primary system has been
distributing the increase temp in the central area right thru the
time when the secondary system is coming back off setback.

Well your reasoning would work if the central area was very hot, but
then that harpoons you one more time.

But the problem is this is a mickey mouse amount of heat

Wrong, as always.

You already mentioned minimal heat, maybe you did not like the disney
reference

and will be at a lower rate than what the
room loses due to the outdoor ambient.


Complete pig ignorant drivel. If that was so, the system wouldnt
be able to maintain temps properly without setback stupid.

Hey you can have a primary system as big as you want, but when its
thermostat says it is warm, it shuts off. So I gave you a hint before
about motorized dampers on the primary supplies to the central area,
just that it creates additional expense and more problems.

Just work it all out and summarize the system. Hey all the power to
you, come on give me one of those nose rubbings you have been bragging
about. Geez man, I have even conceded a dry subtropical climate and you
cannot do it. Does your mother still wipe your ass for you too?

Then the primary system comes on central
area hits 70 and it shuts off again,

Wrong, as always. Its thermostat is set a bit higher
than the one on the secondary system so it will
continue to distribute the central temp to the other rooms,
just like it did right thru the time coming off setback.

Well clarify the the set points of the two systems to make your case
then.

The primary system runs, heats the entire home and then shuts off early
as the central area recovers faster than the rest of the house because
of your stupid booster. So you can overheat the central area and
continue to add heat to the rooms to. You will end up using more heat
and energy than the strips unfortunately.

I already showed you how to work out what the return temperature going
into the heat pump will be, a simple weighted average of the
temperatures of the central area and those of the rooms.

The supply temp to the rooms has to be about 25 degrees warmer than the
room to maintain temperature. If the primary system cycles off the
heat, but the fan keeps running, the elevated return temperature of the
central area only causes a return temperature to the heat pump to be a
couple degrees warmer than the room air temperatures (which have not
yet recovered). So the constant circulation cannot supply enough heat
to even keep up with the heat loss of the rooms, so the rooms start
cooling off as soon as the primary heat system is off.

The WHOLE HOUSE will come back off the setback at a rate
which is determined by how quickly the secondary system can
provide the heat required to come off the setback.

Hey put a mini-split in each room and sure that will work. But you only
have one in the central area rocket.

I think I should promote you from rocket to Appollo. Hey give up now
and you will be Appollo 13, keep going and earn the title Appollo 1.

The secondary system by your own description is set to shut off before
the primary system does. So you have recovered the temperature in the
central area. Not doing much of anything in the rooms tho.

Wrong, as always. The primary system will be distributing that
to the other rooms just like it does with no setback stupid.

If there was no setback at all, and you actually knew how to design a
duct and heating system, then with the primary stat in the central
area, the primary system should be able to maintain the house at a
fairly uniform temperature especially at night.

The air flow to each room incuding the central area, is more or less
sufficient to maintain each room at the desired temperature.

So when you set the system back and then try to recover just using the
primary system, the temperatures start coming back to roughly the same
level at a similar rate. Never exact but close enough.

So now you are turning on a secondary system that just serves the
central area, and there is no longer heat distirbution properly
proportioned in the home, the central area recovers faster.

You are still stupid enough to have a single stat for the primary
system in the central area, so the central area warms up to temperature
and the primary system stops supplying heat. Keeping the fan running
does not help your case at all. It is like the fat sheila wearing
vertical stripes, she sitll is fat.

So the rooms have recovered two degrees of
heat (actually probably a slight amount more)

The WHOLE HOUSE comes back off the setback
because the central air is still circulated by the
primary system, just like it is when no setback is used.

When no setback is used, you have the primary system properly
distributing the heat. When you recover with just the primary system
you still have the primary system properly distributing heat. When you
recover with heat strips, the extra heat of the strips is properly
distributed through out the house, the house then recovovers quickly
and uniformly.

Any recovery scheme needs to properly proportion the 'surplus heat' to
bring the entire house up to a uniform temperature. Your ductless
secondary system can't do this. So maybe try tearing down all the
partition walls and making the house 'open concept.' Or if it was new
construction, use the savings of not having to build partition walls
and pay for the booster heat pump.

Other wise you need a ducted secondary system to do that and that
harpoons your whole plan as you do not know how to make the duct system
work without it being another expense that will never pay for itself.

Or of course you could also just put a little booster in each room as
well.

Maybe tinker with the fact of modifying the swamp cooler so that its
fan and duct work can give you even additional circulation (plus a kW
of fan/motor heat) and you could actually prove that you have been able
to recover on time, just a far cry from being viable. You need to add a
mixing box to get that swamp cooler just to re-circulate return air.

It is a shame an easy climate such as yours and you cannot even prove
that you can recover temperature.


and the primary system is off.

I'll tell you what, if you want a piping hot wood stove or the
fireplace in the central area and you crank up the heat in that
central area, then by running the fan of a 'primary system'
you are going to get some heat into the rooms. The
central area is going to be quite warm for this to happen.

Wrong again when coming off setback.

Reams of your pathetic attempt at a troll flushed where it belongs.

Ream, dream, drink some Jim Beam. You might as well you cannot even
come up with a Goldberg solution.


No wonder the best you have ever been able to
manage is drunken unemployable HVAC ape.

Please, I told you it is Mr. Ape Sir. When you figure out how you can
recover from a night time setback with a heat pump in a subtropical
climate then you may revert back to addressing me as lowly drunk ape.

On the sixth day of christmas appollo gave to me....................