Rod Speed wrote:
Abby Normal wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Abby Normal wrote
Rod Speed wrote
In effect the ductless split system is just like the strips except
that its much more efficient than the strips for when the primary
system doesnt have enough horsepower to come back off setback
quickly enough
Actually with the heat strips in an auxilairy heat function, the
heat strips are in series with the heat pump indoor air coil and
the supply air temperature distributed through out the space is
elevated above what the heat pump can put out. An electrical
analogy would be two heat sources in series.
Irrelevant to it being a more expensive source of that heat.
Well you said the ductless split is just like the strips except...........
So I merely pointed out the fundamental difference you were not aware of.
Couldnt bull**** its way out of a wet paper bag.
You were just making so much progress too.
The ductless booster system will heat up a common area
that would also be recieving heat from the central ducted
system. Now you have two heat sources in parallel so it
already is a smidge different than using the heat strips.
Irrelevant to strips being a more expensive source of that heat.
Just the fundamental difference. The heat strips get the job done but
you have not really thought out this parallel heat scheme of yours in
the central area. You get a little bit of the series action as you try
to trickle heat into the rooms.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you
have never ever had a ****ing clue about the basics.
So to avoid the room getting overly hot
the ductless system would shut off.
ONLY when its got the common area back off setback.
That is what I said. The booster is in the central area, it heats the
central area in addition to the primary system. Therefore it and the
primary system warms up the central area so the booster shuts off and
the primary system shuts off or the central area is overheated. So you
can think about your multiple thermostats and where exactly you are
going to put the primary stat.
Dont need any of that, just a stat for the ductless split system
in the primary area, set a little below the normal temp required.
Rooms will never recover then, think about it. That booster is not
doing much more than recovering the core if you cut it off before the
primary system. You need a booster in every room for this. Like adding
a heat pump to a home that originally had electric baseboard heaters in
each room.
Here is the Parable of the House with Electric baseboard heat that
upgraded to a heat pump
Leave the baseboard heaters in place with their own line voltage stat
set down just a little lower than what the PRIMARY sytem stat is set
for. This is more of an auxiliary heat strategy when the heat pump
cannot keep up to an extreme ambient. You have the heat pump trying to
keep the space warm and if temperature drops, the electric baseboards
kick on.
So you are going to use this scheme for recovery. Except it only gets
close to recovering in one room. Hey I told you to put a ductless split
in each room to have a snowball's hope in hell with your stupid idea.
Maybe even motorized dampers on the primary supply to the
central area. So you shut off the supplies to the central area
so not to overheat but you need to draw return from the central
area to try and get this extra heat to the rooms. Hmm this
depressurizes central area, causes infiltration, increases heat load.
Pathetic, really.
Well the only way you are going to recover with your dog scheme is to
overheat the core.
Don't see you getting out of overheating the central area rocket.
Your problem.
Give up now on the ductless booster its a dog.
A big problem is to get heat to the other areas, you will
most likely find that you need to overheat the central area.
No you dont. The primary system will equalise the temps fine.
How? Little gremlins carry the btus by magic? You have no clue.
Others have pointed out how this wastes energy. I pointed out how it
also reduces the efficiency of the booster in addition to wasting heat.
Not a ****ing clue, as always.
Well work it out, show how it does-- maybe summarize a viable scheme.
Why didn't I think of asking you that before? I think your standard
repettoire is your subconcious coming out, like a freudian slip, but
the problem is you are only describing yourself. I plagerized that from
some one in here, but it seems to be true.
Thats what you want it to do.
You have warmed up the central area but
all the other rooms are still not recovered.
Wrong, the primary system will be circulating that
warmed up air from the central area to the other areas.
It is circulating a mixture of air at various temperatures, the central
area with the booster will be perhaps 4 or 5 degrees F warmer than the
air in the rooms while the remainder of the house is trying to recover.
The primary system heats this air. As you will see, maybe introducing
air at 25 degrees warmer than the room temperatures, maintains the room
at that temperature, and by supplying air a little more than 25 degrees
warmer than the room air temperature it may then elevate or begin to
recover the room temperature back to a comfortable level. It depends on
how your system is tailored
Probably the primary system moves air based on the fact that perhaps
it supplies air maybe 20 degrees F warmer than the room air, and this
is to maintain temperature not recover the temperature.
It doesnt recover the temp, the ductless split system does that, stupid.
It simply heats the rooms, everywhere it is ducted too.
If you would get out a note pad, you could write down a tip. The
sensible heat supplied to the room is proportional to the airflow to
the room. and the temperature differential between the hopefully warm
supply air and the room air. A heat pump extracting heat from a
temperature source near the freezing point of water may elevate the
supply air temperature by upwards to 20 degrees F above the room
temperature.
Now keep reading and maybe we can take a look at how this heat will
transfer without the help of gremlins.
Ouch that must hurt.
Maybe it gets up to a little higher differential in your easy climate
and relatively warm winter ambient maybe you are getting 25 to
30 F degree rise. Okay lets call it a 25 degree rise.
There wont be ANY rise when the stat for the
ductless split system is set to a bit below the
normal temp required and is JUST used to come
back off setback instead of using the strips for that.
LMAO, what the hell did you think I was talking about the room
temperature jumping by 25 degrees, too funny. Mind you by the time you
work out your ductless booster the central area temperature may have
climbed 15F above a 5F setback by the time the rooms recovered. We
already covered the heat wasted with the elevated core temperature so
we can move on.
Grab the same notebook and write this down. In your location in the
land down under, maybe your heat pumps have a warmer ambient heat
source than perhaps 0C. When the temperature source of a heat pump
increases, then the heat output of the heat pump also increases. I
thought you had this concept down before. So possibly with a 7C
ambient, the heat pump may be able to warm the air coming out of the
ducts by 25 degrees F above the room temperature.
For example 65F return, 25 degree rise, maybe a 90F supply plus a
little fan heat.
So when you work out how much heat goes to the rooms, from the primary
system, it will be proportional to the temperature difference between
the room air being drawn into the return and the supply air being
delivered to the room.
Perhaps the core area of the home has 25% of the heat loss and
therefore needs 25% of the air of the primary system. Your booster gets
the core up to 70F quickly and the rooms may have warmed from 65 to 66F
in the time the booster got the central area up to 70F..
The temperature of the air going into the primary heat pump could then
be 0.25x70 +0.75x66=67F
So maybe the supply air, leaving the heat pump to the rooms is now
67+25=92F instead of 66+25=91. You gained some extra heat input into
the rooms as the core area warmed.
Without overheating the open area of the home all that booster does is
help the core recover quick, and gives you a control problem to deal
with. Does not really add that much heat to the rooms.
I hear when you learn something the hard way, you never forget.
Subtract 32 then divide by 1.8, it may be less confusing.
See you are a little vague, and won't
layout exactly what you are proposing,
Lying, as always.
Well summarize exactly what you are proposing, you are simply vague and
the scheme evolves all the time. It was a ducted system, a ductless
system and a swamp cooler last time I heard.
Reams of irrelevant crap flushed where it belongs.
I WASNT DISCUSSING MY PERSONAL SITUATION, APE.
Reams of a pathetic excuse for a troll flushed where it belongs.
So you could keep the all the bedroom doors open to allow them
to gain as much heat as they could from the booster heater in the
living room, but you will not have anything close to uniform heat.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you
have never ever had a ****ing clue about the basics.
AND when people have got up, it doesnt matter if the
bedrooms arent YET back to the normal temp anyway.
Either the bedroom occupant is still in the bed, and has
been at the setback temp up till then, or they have got
up and have moved to the central areas, stupid.
Well you gave up on the morning setback,
Wrong again, just discussing how to do a
system if you dont want a morning setback.
No real point in setting back at all, just keep it cool all the time.
But we were talking about the typical setback.
So lets keep it to Awake Leave Return Sleep. I was saying before that
unless you go to extreme, unviable situations, the heat pump without
strips is going to have a tough time recovering in the morning without
the help of some sunshine. And to recover before the return period, you
will need the help of the sun also. The Sleep Awake setback is the most
challenging one to deal with, so it is convenient when you want to
neglect it.
You actually have a climate where it may be possible to do this,
without the extremes, just I doubt you will be able to figure it out. I
was looking at areas down there average lows in July were like 6 to 9C,
average highs in July were hitting 15C, you should almost be able to do
this. Especially if it is as dry as you say, then you do not have to
worry about the poor dehumidification in the cooling season.
Reams of a pathetic excuse for a troll flushed where it belongs.
This trolling is a lot of work, but your standard repetoire is slowing
down a bit. Seems you get beat up when you deviate from it. Is it
tomorrow there yet, you have been answering me all day. I still have
some line on my reel.
I suspect another round of wet paper bags, blotto, pig ignorant and
HVAC ape to be forthcoming. That keeps you safe at least, because you
are really starting to embarass yourself when you say anything else.