I'm soon to begin constructing a ground level (i.e. 14" above ground) cedar
deck off the back of my house, and so right now I'm in the process of
determining all that I will need to purchase before I begin, including a few
new power tools. For example, the circular saw I have is okay for
occasional use but I dread using it for a whole project, so I want to buy
myself a considerably better one. Now, aside from value-per-price
considerations, what should I look for in shopping for a very-good to high
quality circular saw? And in particular, what should I make of "worm-drive"
versus the more common, "side-winder", type saws?

A couple of acquaintances of mine praise their worm-drives as being
inherently superior in every way to the ordinary (i.e. side-winder) type.
But I've noticed that these worm-drive saws are comparatively heavier (which
might not be ergonominally advantageous, I don't know). And the position of
the handles on these saws just looks (to my minds eye, at least) to be
awkward to handle and perhaps not intended for close, precision or finishing
work.

Of course, since I haven't actually ever used a worm-drive saw, my untested
perceptions of it don't necessarily mean a thing. Hence, I'm posting this
message in the hopes someone might 'enlighten' me in this before I come to a
decision what to buy. Thanks in advance...

Ken

Makita makes a fantastic worm drive saw. The heft or feel is an important
aspect of the tool to the end user. You will learn to love and respect it.
Avoid any tools made in the USA. Good news is, way things are going not
much is being made there due to high defect rates.

--


Remove the obvious to reply. Experienced and reliable
Concrete Finishing and Synthetic Stucco application in the GTA.
"Ken Moiarty" wrote in message
news:F5Pqe.1653294$6l.567253@pd7tw2no...
I'm soon to begin constructing a ground level (i.e. 14" above ground)
cedar
deck off the back of my house, and so right now I'm in the process of
determining all that I will need to purchase before I begin, including a
few
new power tools. For example, the circular saw I have is okay for
occasional use but I dread using it for a whole project, so I want to buy
myself a considerably better one. Now, aside from value-per-price
considerations, what should I look for in shopping for a very-good to high
quality circular saw? And in particular, what should I make of
"worm-drive"
versus the more common, "side-winder", type saws?

A couple of acquaintances of mine praise their worm-drives as being
inherently superior in every way to the ordinary (i.e. side-winder) type.
But I've noticed that these worm-drive saws are comparatively heavier
(which
might not be ergonominally advantageous, I don't know). And the position
of
the handles on these saws just looks (to my minds eye, at least) to be
awkward to handle and perhaps not intended for close, precision or
finishing
work.

Of course, since I haven't actually ever used a worm-drive saw, my
untested
perceptions of it don't necessarily mean a thing. Hence, I'm posting this
message in the hopes someone might 'enlighten' me in this before I come to
a
decision what to buy. Thanks in advance...

Ken

The biggest advantage of the worm gear drive saw is that the blade is on the
opposite side of the saw.
If you are right handed you can follow a line much better with a worm gear
saw.
They also make a "sidewinder" saw with the blade on the left side.
If you are right handed get a saw with the blade on the left.
If you are left handed, get a saw with the blade on the right.


--
JerryD(upstateNY)
"Ken Moiarty" wrote in message
news:F5Pqe.1653294$6l.567253@pd7tw2no...
I'm soon to begin constructing a ground level (i.e. 14" above ground) cedar
deck off the back of my house, and so right now I'm in the process of
determining all that I will need to purchase before I begin, including a few
new power tools. For example, the circular saw I have is okay for
occasional use but I dread using it for a whole project, so I want to buy
myself a considerably better one. Now, aside from value-per-price
considerations, what should I look for in shopping for a very-good to high
quality circular saw? And in particular, what should I make of "worm-drive"
versus the more common, "side-winder", type saws?

A couple of acquaintances of mine praise their worm-drives as being
inherently superior in every way to the ordinary (i.e. side-winder) type.
But I've noticed that these worm-drive saws are comparatively heavier (which
might not be ergonominally advantageous, I don't know). And the position of
the handles on these saws just looks (to my minds eye, at least) to be
awkward to handle and perhaps not intended for close, precision or finishing
work.

Of course, since I haven't actually ever used a worm-drive saw, my untested
perceptions of it don't necessarily mean a thing. Hence, I'm posting this
message in the hopes someone might 'enlighten' me in this before I come to a
decision what to buy. Thanks in advance...

Ken

Joe wrote:
The biggest advantage of the worm gear drive saw is that the blade is on the
opposite side of the saw.
If you are right handed you can follow a line much better with a worm gear
saw.
They also make a "sidewinder" saw with the blade on the left side.
If you are right handed get a saw with the blade on the left.
If you are left handed, get a saw with the blade on the right.



Worm drive has the definite power advantage. I have a 20 year
old Milwaukee side winder. Nice saw but it will bog down on some
cuts. You’ll get accustom to the weight, go worm drive.

"ConcreteFinishing&StuccoGuy" wrote in
message ...
Makita makes a fantastic worm drive saw. The heft or feel is an important
aspect of the tool to the end user. You will learn to love and respect
it.
Avoid any tools made in the USA. Good news is, way things are going not
much is being made there due to high defect rates.



Your not only obnoxious and an obvious troll but inaccurate as
well.....While the U.S. imports more than anyone else in the world we also
export more than anyone as well.....As the most productive country in the
world we simply smile at our less fortunate (ride on our coattails) Northern
neighborsG.

Saw wise I vote for my Mag Skil wormdrive...in fact I voted twice since the
first was lost/stolen

Rod

Skill77. (worm drive) Been in construction for 25 years. Best hand saw
going. Used up my first one about 8 years ago I am now on #2. I also have a
direct drive Makita I bought to cut out mitered risers on stringers. (need a
left tilt saw and a right tilt saw for this type of work) The worm is
superior in handling and power (gear reduction).

"Ken Moiarty" wrote in message
news:F5Pqe.1653294$6l.567253@pd7tw2no...
I'm soon to begin constructing a ground level (i.e. 14" above ground)
cedar deck off the back of my house, and so right now I'm in the process
of determining all that I will need to purchase before I begin, including
a few new power tools. For example, the circular saw I have is okay for
occasional use but I dread using it for a whole project, so I want to buy
myself a considerably better one. Now, aside from value-per-price
considerations, what should I look for in shopping for a very-good to high
quality circular saw? And in particular, what should I make of
"worm-drive" versus the more common, "side-winder", type saws?

A couple of acquaintances of mine praise their worm-drives as being
inherently superior in every way to the ordinary (i.e. side-winder) type.
But I've noticed that these worm-drive saws are comparatively heavier
(which might not be ergonominally advantageous, I don't know). And the
position of the handles on these saws just looks (to my minds eye, at
least) to be awkward to handle and perhaps not intended for close,
precision or finishing work.

Of course, since I haven't actually ever used a worm-drive saw, my
untested perceptions of it don't necessarily mean a thing. Hence, I'm
posting this message in the hopes someone might 'enlighten' me in this
before I come to a decision what to buy. Thanks in advance...

Ken

i happen to like my porter-cable just fine.

On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 04:45:25 GMT, "Ken Moiarty"
wrote:

I'm soon to begin constructing a ground level (i.e. 14" above ground) cedar
deck off the back of my house, and so right now I'm in the process of
determining all that I will need to purchase before I begin, including a few
new power tools. For example, the circular saw I have is okay for
occasional use but I dread using it for a whole project, so I want to buy
myself a considerably better one. Now, aside from value-per-price
considerations, what should I look for in shopping for a very-good to high
quality circular saw? And in particular, what should I make of "worm-drive"
versus the more common, "side-winder", type saws?

A couple of acquaintances of mine praise their worm-drives as being
inherently superior in every way to the ordinary (i.e. side-winder) type.
But I've noticed that these worm-drive saws are comparatively heavier (which
might not be ergonominally advantageous, I don't know). And the position of
the handles on these saws just looks (to my minds eye, at least) to be
awkward to handle and perhaps not intended for close, precision or finishing
work.

Of course, since I haven't actually ever used a worm-drive saw, my untested
perceptions of it don't necessarily mean a thing. Hence, I'm posting this
message in the hopes someone might 'enlighten' me in this before I come to a
decision what to buy. Thanks in advance...

Ken


Ken,

You might want to read the review of worm drive saws he

http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/default.asp

(click on on corded tools, then tool tests)

It's a few years old, but has lots of good info about the pros/cons.

HTH,

Paul

Worm drive. The mag is lighter but more expensive, probably not worth the
money for a homeowner.
The weight of the saw can actually be an advantage when cutting lumber. Hold
the board at an angle and instead of you pushing, the saw uses gravity and
just falls through the board. All you have to do is steer the thing in a
straight line.
I don't know about others, but I can cut much more accurately with a worm
drive as opposed to a sidewinder.

Buy one, you won't regret it. Don't forget the carbide blade.

CR

"Ken Moiarty" wrote in message


And in particular, what should I make of "worm-drive" versus the more
common, "side-winder", type saws?

A couple of acquaintances of mine praise their worm-drives as being
inherently superior in every way to the ordinary (i.e. side-winder) type.


Nothing to do with which is better, but I recently read that on t he west
coast the work drive is more popular while on the east coast the direct
drive is. Probably more of a case of what they learned to use early on and
the tradition remains.

Never used a worm drive so I have no preference. Being left handed, any
circular saw is a PITA to use. One of these day I'll get a left handed
model.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

Simply as an aside, not any of real value to most.

Many years ago, when I was doing HVAC installs, we had the 'opportunity' to
work with a certain framing crew. All of our installers were warned not to
let them borrow anyone's circular saw. This framing crew would go to a tool
outlet and purchase a reconditioned saw. This recon saw might last through
half the framing job on a 1500 square foot house. Almost invariably, the
recon saw would conk out not long after they boss would leave with the truck
to look at the next job and the framers would try to borrow a saw. (this
was long before cell phones) The boss would come back and scream
obscenities at the crew at the top of his lungs that nothing had been done
for 2 to 4 hours. The boss would haul a** to the tool outlet and buy
*another* recon saw. Then it would start all over again. I had a chance to
look in the back of the bosses truck once and saw about 10-12 burned out
saws...

They never bout a new saw, much less a worm drive saw.


"Ken Moiarty" wrote in message
news:F5Pqe.1653294$6l.567253@pd7tw2no...
I'm soon to begin constructing a ground level (i.e. 14" above ground)
cedar
deck off the back of my house, and so right now I'm in the process of
determining all that I will need to purchase before I begin, including a
few
new power tools. For example, the circular saw I have is okay for
occasional use but I dread using it for a whole project, so I want to buy
myself a considerably better one. Now, aside from value-per-price
considerations, what should I look for in shopping for a very-good to high
quality circular saw? And in particular, what should I make of
"worm-drive"
versus the more common, "side-winder", type saws?

A couple of acquaintances of mine praise their worm-drives as being
inherently superior in every way to the ordinary (i.e. side-winder) type.
But I've noticed that these worm-drive saws are comparatively heavier
(which
might not be ergonominally advantageous, I don't know). And the position
of
the handles on these saws just looks (to my minds eye, at least) to be
awkward to handle and perhaps not intended for close, precision or
finishing
work.

Of course, since I haven't actually ever used a worm-drive saw, my
untested
perceptions of it don't necessarily mean a thing. Hence, I'm posting this
message in the hopes someone might 'enlighten' me in this before I come to
a
decision what to buy. Thanks in advance...

Ken

On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 04:45:25 GMT, "Ken Moiarty"
wrote:

Now, aside from value-per-price
considerations, what should I look for in shopping for a very-good to high
quality circular saw? And in particular, what should I make of "worm-drive"
versus the more common, "side-winder", type saws?

First I'll say that I'm partial to left blade saws as I can see the
line better without leaning over the saw. I have an old Skil worm
drive that I've used for over 20 years and it's a real work horse.
I'll use it 90% of the time as opposed to standard circular saws. Last
year I bought a Porter Cable 743K and I now find myself grabbing it
for all but the heaviest jobs. It has plenty of power, is relatively
light weight, has a left handed blade and if you need to use a guide
you can just measure 1 1/2" off center in one direction or 5" off
center in the other and the blade will run right down the line. I'm
sure there are others just as good or maybe better but I've sure been
pleased with it.

On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 06:04:38 GMT, "Joe"
scribbled this interesting note:

The biggest advantage of the worm gear drive saw is that the blade is on the
opposite side of the saw.
If you are right handed you can follow a line much better with a worm gear
saw.
They also make a "sidewinder" saw with the blade on the left side.
If you are right handed get a saw with the blade on the left.
If you are left handed, get a saw with the blade on the right.

There is another advantage to the worm drive saw-at least the Skil
that I prefer. The handle is more-or-less in line with the blade,
meaning there is far less torque from your hand as you move the saw
across the cut. With the various circular saws that are most common,
(blade on the right, handle on the left, the reverse is the case if
you buy the other option) your hand is attempting to force the blade
in a circle to the right, or left if you got the other kind. Put the
handle in just about the same plane as the blade and there is far less
sideways force attempting to distort your cut.


--
John Willis
(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 10:34:50 -0400, "HeatMan"
scribbled this interesting note:

Simply as an aside, not any of real value to most.

Many years ago, when I was doing HVAC installs, we had the 'opportunity' to
work with a certain framing crew. All of our installers were warned not to
let them borrow anyone's circular saw. This framing crew would go to a tool
outlet and purchase a reconditioned saw. This recon saw might last through
half the framing job on a 1500 square foot house. Almost invariably, the
recon saw would conk out not long after they boss would leave with the truck
to look at the next job and the framers would try to borrow a saw. (this
was long before cell phones) The boss would come back and scream
obscenities at the crew at the top of his lungs that nothing had been done
for 2 to 4 hours. The boss would haul a** to the tool outlet and buy
*another* recon saw. Then it would start all over again. I had a chance to
look in the back of the bosses truck once and saw about 10-12 burned out
saws...

They never bout a new saw, much less a worm drive saw.

This has everything to do with the question. It is easy to burn out
those cheap saws. A good, heavy duty saw will last decades through all
kinds of abuse.


--
John Willis
(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

"Ken Moiarty" wrote in message
news:F5Pqe.1653294$6l.567253@pd7tw2no...
I'm soon to begin constructing a ground level (i.e. 14" above ground)
cedar
deck off the back of my house, and so right now I'm in the process of
determining all that I will need to purchase before I begin, including a
few
new power tools. For example, the circular saw I have is okay for
occasional use but I dread using it for a whole project, so I want to buy
myself a considerably better one. Now, aside from value-per-price
considerations, what should I look for in shopping for a very-good to high
quality circular saw? And in particular, what should I make of
"worm-drive"
versus the more common, "side-winder", type saws?

Snip

As long as you're committed to spending money on tools, you should consider
a good compound miter saw, and/or radial arm saw. In the long run you'll
have much more versatility.

"PhotoMan" wrote in message
...

"Ken Moiarty" wrote in message
news:F5Pqe.1653294$6l.567253@pd7tw2no...
I'm soon to begin constructing a ground level (i.e. 14" above ground)
cedar
deck off the back of my house, and so right now I'm in the process of
determining all that I will need to purchase before I begin, including a
few
new power tools. For example, the circular saw I have is okay for
occasional use but I dread using it for a whole project, so I want to
buy
myself a considerably better one. Now, aside from value-per-price
considerations, what should I look for in shopping for a very-good to
high
quality circular saw? And in particular, what should I make of
"worm-drive"
versus the more common, "side-winder", type saws?

Snip

As long as you're committed to spending money on tools, you should
consider
a good compound miter saw, and/or radial arm saw. In the long run you'll
have much more versatility.


Miter saws, and/or radial arm saws are much more versatile? Good for trim
and finish work, but I have always found them a little cumbersome when
trying to follow a caulk line on a roof or on a deck when trimming off the
ends. Maybe I'm not holding them right?

CR

"CR" wrote in message
...

"PhotoMan" wrote in message
...
As long as you're committed to spending money on tools, you should
consider
a good compound miter saw, and/or radial arm saw. In the long run you'll
have much more versatility.


Miter saws, and/or radial arm saws are much more versatile? Good for trim
and finish work, but I have always found them a little cumbersome when
trying to follow a caulk line on a roof or on a deck when trimming off the
ends. Maybe I'm not holding them right?

I guess I wasn't very clear with my response. I didn't mean 'instead of' -
rather 'in addition to'. When I built my own deck, my miter saw/roller
support helped make the cuts much more accurate. I don't really have a
preference with circular saws.

"CR" wrote in message
...

"PhotoMan" wrote in message
...

"Ken Moiarty" wrote in message
news:F5Pqe.1653294$6l.567253@pd7tw2no...
I'm soon to begin constructing a ground level (i.e. 14"
above ground)
cedar
deck off the back of my house, and so right now I'm in
the process of
determining all that I will need to purchase before I
begin, including a
few
new power tools. For example, the circular saw I have
is okay for
occasional use but I dread using it for a whole project,
so I want to
buy
myself a considerably better one. Now, aside from
value-per-price
considerations, what should I look for in shopping for a
very-good to
high
quality circular saw? And in particular, what should I
make of
"worm-drive"
versus the more common, "side-winder", type saws?

Snip

As long as you're committed to spending money on tools,
you should
consider
a good compound miter saw, and/or radial arm saw. In the
long run you'll
have much more versatility.


Miter saws, and/or radial arm saws are much more versatile?
Good for trim
and finish work, but I have always found them a little
cumbersome when
trying to follow a caulk line on a roof or on a deck when
trimming off the
ends. Maybe I'm not holding them right?


Hey flattracker,,,what are you running? Im running an ATK
600 on the quarter mile dirt ovals, not bad for age 64 no?

Saw wize I have almost a dozen. including a 16" makita miter
saw, and porter cable side wider I built a large blade guard
onto so it takes a 12" blade. Thats handy.

and a chinese 12" compound sliding miter saw.. 200 bucks..it
will come in handy one of these days.




Phil Scott



CR

"ConcreteFinishing&StuccoGuy" wrote

Avoid any tools made in the USA.


I find this hard to believe. As a Canadian living close to the border, I
often prefer to shop for products of all kinds in the states, not just
because there's almost always a greater selection in the stores there, but
also because I can specifically find tools that state "made in the U.S.A.".
Of course, this is only my bias and says nothing about the facts related to
tool products. But I do know that, in broad terms, North American products
in general (whether made in Canada or the U.S., doesn't matter) are made
less for quality in favor of affordability; in contrast to say, European
manufacturers for example, who make more expensive "high end" products,
frequently of exquisite quality. But none of this means that North American
made products are not good. Just that they're not usually the very best
that money can buy.

Good news is, way things are going not much is being made there due to
high defect rates.

No. Manufacturers all over the world are using factories in China to take
advantage of the cheap labour there. And products made in China, at least
to my mind, seem to have higher defect rates (although I see no reason to
doubt that that will change in the future).

Ken

Ken Moiarty wrote:
"ConcreteFinishing&StuccoGuy" wrote

Avoid any tools made in the USA.

I find this hard to believe. As a Canadian living close to the border, I
often prefer to shop for products of all kinds in the states, not just
because there's almost always a greater selection in the stores there, but
also because I can specifically find tools that state "made in the U.S.A.".
Of course, this is only my bias and says nothing about the facts related to
tool products. But I do know that, in broad terms, North American products
in general (whether made in Canada or the U.S., doesn't matter) are made
less for quality in favor of affordability; in contrast to say, European
manufacturers for example, who make more expensive "high end" products,
frequently of exquisite quality. But none of this means that North American
made products are not good. Just that they're not usually the very best
that money can buy.

Like Festo or Fein? Remember when the Fein triangular blade detail
sander was first sold in North America? It was around $600. Nice
tool, serious money. Then the Japanese and American companies glommed
onto the idea, put out their versions, cut the price by two-thirds and
now the Fein is selling for the same price. Nice tools though.

Good news is, way things are going not much is being made there due to
high defect rates.

No. Manufacturers all over the world are using factories in China to take
advantage of the cheap labour there. And products made in China, at least
to my mind, seem to have higher defect rates (although I see no reason to
doubt that that will change in the future).

When people bring up the quality of Chinese production, I point to the
bicycle factories in Taiwan. You specify the degree of quality, you
pay for it, you get it. Same most places.

As far as the choice between saws, if it's your only saw, 60-40 in
favor of the sidewinder. Get a higher end DeWalt, Makita or the like.

R

Ken Moiarty wrote:
"ConcreteFinishing&StuccoGuy" wrote

Avoid any tools made in the USA.


I find this hard to believe. As a Canadian living close to the border, I
often prefer to shop for products of all kinds in the states, not just
because there's almost always a greater selection in the stores there, but
also because I can specifically find tools that state "made in the U.S.A.".
Of course, this is only my bias and says nothing about the facts related to
tool products. But I do know that, in broad terms, North American products
in general (whether made in Canada or the U.S., doesn't matter) are made
less for quality in favor of affordability; in contrast to say, European
manufacturers for example, who make more expensive "high end" products,
frequently of exquisite quality. But none of this means that North American
made products are not good. Just that they're not usually the very best
that money can buy.

Good news is, way things are going not much is being made there due to
high defect rates.

No. Manufacturers all over the world are using factories in China to take
advantage of the cheap labour there. And products made in China, at least
to my mind, seem to have higher defect rates (although I see no reason to
doubt that that will change in the future).

Ken

"Ken Moiarty" wrote
I'm soon to begin constructing a ground level (i.e. 14" above ground)
cedar
deck off the back of my house, and so right now I'm in the process of
determining all that I will need to purchase before I begin, including a
few
snip

A couple of acquaintances of mine praise their worm-drives as being
inherently superior in every way to the ordinary (i.e. side-winder) type.
But I've noticed that these worm-drive saws are comparatively heavier
(which
might not be ergonominally advantageous, I don't know). And the position
of
the handles on these saws just looks (to my minds eye, at least) to be
awkward to handle and perhaps not intended for close, precision or
finishing
work.

I have both types, but would recommend for the novice, a cheap sidewinder
with a superior carbide blade. IMHO, good blades make the best of the saw
come out.

Unless you have built yourself a set of carpenter forearms, you're correct
the worm drive may not be for you.

The Makita sidewider is nice, but I have one complaint about it. If you do
any guide work on sheet goods, the shoe being flat, likes to slip under the
guide work. The cheap model saws with a steel shoe, have a curve on them
which prevent the shoe from slipping under guide work.

Last year I bought a Porter Cable 743K and I now find myself grabbing it for all but the heaviest jobs. It has plenty of power, is relatively light weight, has a left handed blade and...

That's the one I have.

"ConcreteFinishing&StuccoGuy" wrote in message
...
Makita makes a fantastic worm drive saw. The heft or feel is an important
aspect of the tool to the end user. You will learn to love and respect it.
Avoid any tools made in the USA. Good news is, way things are going not
much is being made there due to high defect rates.

--



this is Turtle.

your ideal might be good but we might try to buy the tools that Cuba , Libia, or
maybe France. i sure like to help out other country that love us so much.

One point here is your telling this man to pay about 3 times what a normal saw
will cost from the states and use it one time a lot and use it maybe 5 or 6 time
in the next 20 years. he will never get the use out of it to try to get his
money back on paying 3 times as much. Now he could put it on display in his
living room and set up at nite and say, that's a very nice say and i love it to
death. Worm gear saws are only for people who really use them a great bit and
not a hobby wood worker. Also the worm type will wear you out just picking it up
in use as being heavier in weight. I have had 4 Skill saws in my life and never
wore one out yet. One went with 230 volts plugged to it and the other one went
with Van run over it. the other 2 is still in my Van being used. So Skill tools
are not all that bad of stuff as you speak here.

TURTLE

Did you jump onto someone's porch and plug it in? Was that how?

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"TURTLE" wrote in message
. ..


this is Turtle.

4 Skill saws in my life and never
wore one out yet. One went with 230 volts plugged to it and

TURTLE

In theory, using good quality tools is less expensive in the long run.
However, I will admit to buying junk tools on a sob regular basis.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"HeatMan" wrote in message
...
Simply as an aside, not any of real value to most.

Many years ago, when I was doing HVAC installs, we had the 'opportunity' to
work with a certain framing crew. All of our installers were warned not to
let them borrow anyone's circular saw. This framing crew would go to a tool
outlet and purchase a reconditioned saw. This recon saw might last through
half the framing job on a 1500 square foot house. Almost invariably, the
recon saw would conk out not long after they boss would leave with the truck
to look at the next job and the framers would try to borrow a saw. (this
was long before cell phones) The boss would come back and scream
obscenities at the crew at the top of his lungs that nothing had been done
for 2 to 4 hours. The boss would haul a** to the tool outlet and buy
*another* recon saw. Then it would start all over again. I had a chance to
look in the back of the bosses truck once and saw about 10-12 burned out
saws...

They never bout a new saw, much less a worm drive saw.


"Ken Moiarty" wrote in message
news:F5Pqe.1653294$6l.567253@pd7tw2no...
I'm soon to begin constructing a ground level (i.e. 14" above ground)
cedar
deck off the back of my house, and so right now I'm in the process of
determining all that I will need to purchase before I begin, including a
few
new power tools. For example, the circular saw I have is okay for
occasional use but I dread using it for a whole project, so I want to buy
myself a considerably better one. Now, aside from value-per-price
considerations, what should I look for in shopping for a very-good to high
quality circular saw? And in particular, what should I make of
"worm-drive"
versus the more common, "side-winder", type saws?

A couple of acquaintances of mine praise their worm-drives as being
inherently superior in every way to the ordinary (i.e. side-winder) type.
But I've noticed that these worm-drive saws are comparatively heavier
(which
might not be ergonominally advantageous, I don't know). And the position
of
the handles on these saws just looks (to my minds eye, at least) to be
awkward to handle and perhaps not intended for close, precision or
finishing
work.

Of course, since I haven't actually ever used a worm-drive saw, my
untested
perceptions of it don't necessarily mean a thing. Hence, I'm posting this
message in the hopes someone might 'enlighten' me in this before I come to
a
decision what to buy. Thanks in advance...

Ken

On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 10:32:45 -0500, PhotoMan wrote:
determining all that I will need to purchase before I begin, including a
new power tools. For example, the circular saw I have is okay for
...
considerations, what should I look for in shopping for a very-good to high
quality circular saw? And in particular, what should I make of

As long as you're committed to spending money on tools, you should consider
a good compound miter saw, and/or radial arm saw. In the long run you'll

Yup. After a circular saw, for general construction a (sliding)
compound miter or the more expensive radial arm saw is very handy.

While this may be heretical, I'm quite happy with my #90891 from Harbor
Freight (regularly comes on sale for $99, and is almost identical to a
previous model Makita). Best $100 tool bargain I've purchased. Might
not hold up or satisfy a professional, but it performs well.

sdb
--
Wanted: Omnibook 800 & accessories, cheap, working or not
sdbuse1 on mailhost bigfoot.com

Magnesium case. worm drive..Last one you'll buy

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Did you jump onto someone's porch and plug it in? Was that how?

--

Christopher A. Young

This is Turtle.

No , on top of a school where they had a Diconnect box with 230 volt 3 phase and
the help hooked on to two hots with alligator clips and sawed about 1 inches. I
do all the hooking up from that time on.

TURTLE

"Ken Moiarty" wrote in message
news:F5Pqe.1653294$6l.567253@pd7tw2no...
I'm soon to begin constructing a ground level (i.e. 14" above ground)
cedar
deck off the back of my house, and so right now I'm in the process of
determining all that I will need to purchase before I begin, including a
few
new power tools. For example, the circular saw I have is okay for
occasional use but I dread using it for a whole project, so I want to buy
myself a considerably better one. Now, aside from value-per-price
considerations, what should I look for in shopping for a very-good to high
quality circular saw? And in particular, what should I make of
"worm-drive"
versus the more common, "side-winder", type saws?

A couple of acquaintances of mine praise their worm-drives as being
inherently superior in every way to the ordinary (i.e. side-winder) type.
But I've noticed that these worm-drive saws are comparatively heavier
(which
might not be ergonominally advantageous, I don't know). And the position
of
the handles on these saws just looks (to my minds eye, at least) to be
awkward to handle and perhaps not intended for close, precision or
finishing
work.

Of course, since I haven't actually ever used a worm-drive saw, my
untested
perceptions of it don't necessarily mean a thing. Hence, I'm posting this
message in the hopes someone might 'enlighten' me in this before I come to
a
decision what to buy. Thanks in advance...

Ken



If you choose to buy a less expensive circular saw, be careful. An aluminum
table bevel arm, and depth arm can easily bend. Very difficult to
straighten correctly without dismantling the table entirely. The blade may
head in one direction, and the table edge may slighly off-direction in case
of aluminum tables on some less expensive circular saws. I built a one car
garage/workshop with such a circular saw. Ignored the table edge and
followed the line with the saw blade instead.

Critical bevel cuts, like in fascia, I used a miter/drop saw. Mass-produced
common rafters with the same miter saw as well, with an 8' table on either
side of the miter saw. A miter saw won't try to walk off a cross-cut line,
like some circular saws do. Miter saws are not influenced by cupping or
minor surface defects in the wood.

Worm-drive saws are heavy in weight compared to the less expensive circular
saws. I doubt if you can bend their tables by typical bumps and short drops
to the earth. They tend to have more amperage to cut with, generally do a
good line cut without much user guidance.

Right now, after finishing the garage, painting a house interior, trenching
mostly rock for water pipe and conduit to the house and garage, am suffering
from strained tendons in my right elbow area. Doc is treating me with
localized cortisone shots. If I had been using a worm drive saw on that
garage, suspect I would be hurting a bit more. You're right, ergonomics is
a factor.

"John Willis" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 10:34:50 -0400, "HeatMan"
scribbled this interesting note:

Simply as an aside, not any of real value to most.

Many years ago, when I was doing HVAC installs, we had the 'opportunity'
to
work with a certain framing crew. All of our installers were warned not
to
let them borrow anyone's circular saw. This framing crew would go to a
tool
outlet and purchase a reconditioned saw. This recon saw might last
through
half the framing job on a 1500 square foot house. Almost invariably, the
recon saw would conk out not long after they boss would leave with the
truck
to look at the next job and the framers would try to borrow a saw.
(this
was long before cell phones) The boss would come back and scream
obscenities at the crew at the top of his lungs that nothing had been
done
for 2 to 4 hours. The boss would haul a** to the tool outlet and buy
*another* recon saw. Then it would start all over again. I had a chance
to
look in the back of the bosses truck once and saw about 10-12 burned out
saws...

They never bout a new saw, much less a worm drive saw.

This has everything to do with the question. It is easy to burn out
those cheap saws. A good, heavy duty saw will last decades through all
kinds of abuse.



Yep, that was the point I was making, about the good saw lasting.....

"TURTLE" wrote in message
. ..

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Did you jump onto someone's porch and plug it in? Was that how?

--

Christopher A. Young

This is Turtle.

No , on top of a school where they had a Diconnect box with 230 volt 3
phase and
the help hooked on to two hots with alligator clips and sawed about 1
inches. I
do all the hooking up from that time on.


I did that to a vaccumn pump once. It didn't let out the magic smoke, but
didn't pump too well. As soon as I realized what I had done, and that
didn't take too long, I corrected the wiring. It's still running years
later.

"HeatMan" wrote in message
. ..

"TURTLE" wrote in message
. ..

This is Turtle.

No , on top of a school where they had a Diconnect box with 230 volt 3
phase and
the help hooked on to two hots with alligator clips and sawed about 1
inches. I
do all the hooking up from that time on.


I did that to a vaccumn pump once. It didn't let out the magic smoke, but
didn't pump too well. As soon as I realized what I had done, and that
didn't take too long, I corrected the wiring. It's still running years
later.

Saws, computers, and most appliances run on smoke. When the smoke gets out
they stop running.

Hopkins wrote:
i happen to like my porter-cable just fine.


I have one too and am finally getting used to the left hand blade. The
only negative is the lower guard, it usually refuses to open without
manually lifting it.
Any ideas for modification?


Stormin

The worm drives are better build and have more torque. The Skill 77 , IIRC,
is the standard here. Bosch has a good worm drive with a top mount handle. I
own it and like it fine. I also own a Porter cable sidewinder which is also
great. The PC saw took a 1 1/2 story fall off a roof a couple of weeks ago
and is still going strong!

The Worm drives the blade is installed backwards and also require a blade
with a knockout. Not a problem really, they are everywhere. Only problem is
once the knockout is punched you cant use the blade on a sidewinder. Also,
the cheapie blades do not have the knockout. Not sure if the Skill uses the
knockout blades. The Bosch does.

Here is a link to my Bosch worm drive saw (with top handle like a
sidewinder)
http://www.boschtools.com/tools/tool...=54930&I=55122

Now - Put the circ saw discussion aside. For your project I would rather use
a SCMS with a stand.

There I use a Makita ls1013 with a TrackRack. IMO a miter saw has about 10x
more utility with a good stand.
See http://www.tracrac.com/workstation/workstation.html

Disclaimer - I am not affiliated in anyway with the above mentioned products
or companies.


"Ken Moiarty" wrote in message
news:F5Pqe.1653294$6l.567253@pd7tw2no...
I'm soon to begin constructing a ground level (i.e. 14" above ground)
cedar deck off the back of my house, and so right now I'm in the process
of determining all that I will need to purchase before I begin, including
a few new power tools. For example, the circular saw I have is okay for
occasional use but I dread using it for a whole project, so I want to buy
myself a considerably better one. Now, aside from value-per-price
considerations, what should I look for in shopping for a very-good to high
quality circular saw? And in particular, what should I make of
"worm-drive" versus the more common, "side-winder", type saws?

A couple of acquaintances of mine praise their worm-drives as being
inherently superior in every way to the ordinary (i.e. side-winder) type.
But I've noticed that these worm-drive saws are comparatively heavier
(which might not be ergonominally advantageous, I don't know). And the
position of the handles on these saws just looks (to my minds eye, at
least) to be awkward to handle and perhaps not intended for close,
precision or finishing work.

Of course, since I haven't actually ever used a worm-drive saw, my
untested perceptions of it don't necessarily mean a thing. Hence, I'm
posting this message in the hopes someone might 'enlighten' me in this
before I come to a decision what to buy. Thanks in advance...

Ken

No wrote:


The Worm drives the blade is installed backwards and also require a blade
with a knockout. Not a problem really, they are everywhere. Only problem is
once the knockout is punched you cant use the blade on a sidewinder.


Wtf are you talking about, backwards? Also you're wrong about not being
able to use the blade on a sidewinder. Save the knockout and just put
the knockout back in the blade and it can be used on the other type of
saw. Tighten the nut and oila! Are you sure you own either of those saws?

"RicodJour" wrote in message
oups.com...
Ken Moiarty wrote:
"ConcreteFinishing&StuccoGuy"
wrote

Avoid any tools made in the USA.

I find this hard to believe. As a Canadian living close
to the border, I
often prefer to shop for products of all kinds in the
states, not just
because there's almost always a greater selection in the
stores there, but
also because I can specifically find tools that state
"made in the U.S.A.".
Of course, this is only my bias and says nothing about the
facts related to
tool products. But I do know that, in broad terms, North
American products
in general (whether made in Canada or the U.S., doesn't
matter) are made
less for quality in favor of affordability; in contrast to
say, European
manufacturers for example, who make more expensive "high
end" products,
frequently of exquisite quality. But none of this means
that North American
made products are not good. Just that they're not usually
the very best
that money can buy.

Like Festo or Fein? Remember when the Fein triangular blade
detail
sander was first sold in North America? It was around $600.
Nice
tool, serious money. Then the Japanese and American
companies glommed
onto the idea, put out their versions, cut the price by
two-thirds and
now the Fein is selling for the same price. Nice tools
though.

Good news is, way things are going not much is being
made there due to
high defect rates.

No. Manufacturers all over the world are using factories
in China to take
advantage of the cheap labour there. And products made in
China, at least
to my mind, seem to have higher defect rates (although I
see no reason to
doubt that that will change in the future).

When people bring up the quality of Chinese production, I
point to the
bicycle factories in Taiwan. You specify the degree of
quality, you
pay for it, you get it. Same most places.

As far as the choice between saws, if it's your only saw,
60-40 in
favor of the sidewinder. Get a higher end DeWalt, Makita or
the like.


Every time I do a job I budget 10% for tools... my little
giftie for having to sweat ...so now I have maybe 4or 5 side
widers 5" to 12"... an 8.5 skill worm drive, a 16" miter saw,
and 3 smaller ones..and a 12" chinese sliding compound miter
saw...they gatther a lot of dust but boy am I ready to saw the
hell out of anything on a moments notice. I'm a hell of a
driller too.. you name it and I can drill the hell out of it.

Same with torches and electrical gismo's... So now mini
warehouse storages in 6k a year... brilliant hu?




Phil Scott

R

"Lil' Dave" wrote in message
nk.net...
"Ken Moiarty" wrote in message
news:F5Pqe.1653294$6l.567253@pd7tw2no...
I'm soon to begin constructing a ground level (i.e. 14"
above ground)
cedar
deck off the back of my house, and so right now I'm in the
process of
determining all that I will need to purchase before I
begin, including a
few
new power tools. For example, the circular saw I have is
okay for
occasional use but I dread using it for a whole project,
so I want to buy
myself a considerably better one. Now, aside from
value-per-price
considerations, what should I look for in shopping for a
very-good to high
quality circular saw? And in particular, what should I
make of
"worm-drive"
versus the more common, "side-winder", type saws?

A couple of acquaintances of mine praise their worm-drives
as being
inherently superior in every way to the ordinary (i.e.
side-winder) type.
But I've noticed that these worm-drive saws are
comparatively heavier
(which
might not be ergonominally advantageous, I don't know).
And the position
of
the handles on these saws just looks (to my minds eye, at
least) to be
awkward to handle and perhaps not intended for close,
precision or
finishing
work.

Of course, since I haven't actually ever used a worm-drive
saw, my
untested
perceptions of it don't necessarily mean a thing. Hence,
I'm posting this
message in the hopes someone might 'enlighten' me in this
before I come to
a
decision what to buy. Thanks in advance...

Ken



If you choose to buy a less expensive circular saw, be
careful. An aluminum
table bevel arm, and depth arm can easily bend. Very
difficult to
straighten correctly without dismantling the table entirely.
The blade may
head in one direction, and the table edge may slighly
off-direction in case
of aluminum tables on some less expensive circular saws. I
built a one car
garage/workshop with such a circular saw. Ignored the table
edge and
followed the line with the saw blade instead.

Critical bevel cuts, like in fascia, I used a miter/drop
saw. Mass-produced
common rafters with the same miter saw as well, with an 8'
table on either
side of the miter saw. A miter saw won't try to walk off a
cross-cut line,
like some circular saws do. Miter saws are not influenced
by cupping or
minor surface defects in the wood.

Worm-drive saws are heavy in weight compared to the less
expensive circular
saws. I doubt if you can bend their tables by typical bumps
and short drops
to the earth. They tend to have more amperage to cut with,
generally do a
good line cut without much user guidance.

Right now, after finishing the garage, painting a house
interior, trenching
mostly rock for water pipe and conduit to the house and
garage, am suffering
from strained tendons in my right elbow area. Doc is
treating me with
localized cortisone shots. If I had been using a worm drive
saw on that
garage, suspect I would be hurting a bit more. You're
right, ergonomics is
a factor.

I have a super light craftsman 5" side wider for a lot of
work...very handy. doesnt wear you out..but its slower than a
bigger saw. It cuts a 2x4 narrow with in one cut, straight
but not beveled of course..and its great for overhead work.
Its half the wt of a larger saw.



Phil Scott

"No" wrote in message
...
The worm drives are better build and have more torque. The
Skill 77 , IIRC,
is the standard here. Bosch has a good worm drive with a top
mount handle. I
own it and like it fine. I also own a Porter cable
sidewinder which is also
great. The PC saw took a 1 1/2 story fall off a roof a
couple of weeks ago
and is still going strong!

My 25year old craftsman 3/8 drill sank with a house boat into
salt water for two weeks... I dried it out and it still works
fine.

The chinese jobbies suffered vibrating bearings after than and
had to be euthanized...but were OK electrically...same with
the Riobi table saw and router..




Phil Scott


The Worm drives the blade is installed backwards and also
require a blade
with a knockout. Not a problem really, they are everywhere.
Only problem is
once the knockout is punched you cant use the blade on a
sidewinder. Also,
the cheapie blades do not have the knockout. Not sure if the
Skill uses the
knockout blades. The Bosch does.

Here is a link to my Bosch worm drive saw (with top handle
like a
sidewinder)

http://www.boschtools.com/tools/tool...=54930&I=55122

Now - Put the circ saw discussion aside. For your project I
would rather use
a SCMS with a stand.

There I use a Makita ls1013 with a TrackRack. IMO a miter
saw has about 10x
more utility with a good stand.
See http://www.tracrac.com/workstation/workstation.html

Disclaimer - I am not affiliated in anyway with the above
mentioned products
or companies.


"Ken Moiarty" wrote in message
news:F5Pqe.1653294$6l.567253@pd7tw2no...
I'm soon to begin constructing a ground level (i.e. 14"
above ground)
cedar deck off the back of my house, and so right now I'm
in the process
of determining all that I will need to purchase before I
begin, including
a few new power tools. For example, the circular saw I
have is okay for
occasional use but I dread using it for a whole project,
so I want to buy
myself a considerably better one. Now, aside from
value-per-price
considerations, what should I look for in shopping for a
very-good to high
quality circular saw? And in particular, what should I
make of
"worm-drive" versus the more common, "side-winder", type
saws?

A couple of acquaintances of mine praise their worm-drives
as being
inherently superior in every way to the ordinary (i.e.
side-winder) type.
But I've noticed that these worm-drive saws are
comparatively heavier
(which might not be ergonominally advantageous, I don't
know). And the
position of the handles on these saws just looks (to my
minds eye, at
least) to be awkward to handle and perhaps not intended
for close,
precision or finishing work.

Of course, since I haven't actually ever used a worm-drive
saw, my
untested perceptions of it don't necessarily mean a thing.
Hence, I'm
posting this message in the hopes someone might
'enlighten' me in this
before I come to a decision what to buy. Thanks in
advance...

Ken

Yea, I own them. I have never saved the knockout. I keep the 2 saws at
different locations.

Anyway.

The Blade install is opposite for the two saws, backwards if you will.
Please refer to the owners manual, page 8, for the Bosch.
http://66.77.255.87/Images/BOSCHPDF/...-03%201678.pdf

And to Page 8 of the PC saw manual
http://media.ptg-online.com/20040115...3-12-10-03.pdf

Now - Notice a typical Circ saw blade....
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/pho...6299/46253.gif
(I have never bought this particular blade, just a decent picture)

The teeth point to the left at the top of the blade. The arrows on the blade
indicate a counter clockwise rotation. Put that on the PC saw label out.
You put that on the Bosch, assuming it had a knockout, label IN. In other
words backwards.

This is typical for blade left designs, I think. I know this is how it is
for the saw I own. I'm not sure if that is the case with other worm saws as
I have never changed a blade on any worm saw but my own.

"G Henslee" wrote in message
...
No wrote:


The Worm drives the blade is installed backwards and also require a blade
with a knockout. Not a problem really, they are everywhere. Only problem
is once the knockout is punched you cant use the blade on a sidewinder.


Wtf are you talking about, backwards? Also you're wrong about not being
able to use the blade on a sidewinder. Save the knockout and just put the
knockout back in the blade and it can be used on the other type of saw.
Tighten the nut and oila! Are you sure you own either of those saws?