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RichK
 
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Default cat5e and phone cable


"Ignoramus23410" wrote in message

I am wondering if all 8 wires on a cat5e cable are used for
Ethernet purposes, and if that is not the case, is there a couple I
could use for phone. That way I could save $$ and time by running one
cable instead of two.


No all 8 wires are not used. An Ethernet patch cable has only 4
conductors - there should be a hint in that.

You mention a router... are you using only one port on the router? Not sure
what your plans are.

Rich


  #2   Report Post  
bill a
 
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Cat5 only needs two pairs of wires, but make sure you reserve color pairs.
If you strip back enough of the outer sheath, you'll find that wire pairs
are visible. Each color pair, like blue and white/blue is twisted and this
is important for the cat5 spec.
bill

"Ignoramus23410" wrote in message
...
I need to run about 100-120 feet of cat5e cable to connect our bedroom
to the utility room where the network switch, DSL router etc is. I
ALSO need to run a phone cable, from utility room to the same
bedroom. I am wondering if all 8 wires on a cat5e cable are used for
Ethernet purposes, and if that is not the case, is there a couple I
could use for phone. That way I could save $$ and time by running one
cable instead of two.

i


  #3   Report Post  
badgolferman
 
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Ignoramus23410, 6/6/2005, 9:58:12 AM, wrote:

I need to run about 100-120 feet of cat5e cable to connect our bedroom
to the utility room where the network switch, DSL router etc is. I
ALSO need to run a phone cable, from utility room to the same
bedroom. I am wondering if all 8 wires on a cat5e cable are used for
Ethernet purposes, and if that is not the case, is there a couple I
could use for phone. That way I could save $$ and time by running one
cable instead of two.

i


CAT5e cable is usually used for 100Mbit connections which require only
four wires. However this cable has also been used for 1000Mbit
connections which do require all eight conductors. If you don't plan
on using Gigabit then you should be okay.

--
No matter what happens, someone will find a way to take it too
seriously.
  #4   Report Post  
badgolferman
 
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Ignoramus23410, 6/6/2005, 10:35:11 AM, wrote:

On 06 Jun 2005 14:19:45 GMT, badgolferman
wrote:
Ignoramus23410, 6/6/2005, 9:58:12 AM,
wrote:

I need to run about 100-120 feet of cat5e cable to connect our

bedroom to the utility room where the network switch, DSL router
etc is. I ALSO need to run a phone cable, from utility room to the
same bedroom. I am wondering if all 8 wires on a cat5e cable are
used for Ethernet purposes, and if that is not the case, is there
a couple I could use for phone. That way I could save $$ and time
by running one cable instead of two.

i


CAT5e cable is usually used for 100Mbit connections which require
only four wires. However this cable has also been used for 1000Mbit
connections which do require all eight conductors. If you don't
plan on using Gigabit then you should be okay.


That's cool, I have no gigabit plans at the moment. Question of the
day is, then, which wires are used. I understand that I could pick any
wires as long as I connect them to the jack properly. I use Leviton
jacks from Home Depot.

i


http://www.la-cable.com/telephone_te...ring%20guide%2
0(TIA%20568B%20or%20AT&T)
or
http://tinyurl.com/9yjwr

--
No matter what happens, someone will find a way to take it too
seriously.
  #5   Report Post  
al
 
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100base-T uses two of the four pairs. However, if you're thinking of
upgrading to 1000base-T, you'd be out of luck - gigabit ethernet uses all
four pairs and requires cat6.

I'd choose one of two options:

- Go wireless for both the phone (800mhz/2Ghz) and network (with
encryption)

- Run two separate cables (one being cat6) and be done with it

http://www.zytrax.com/tech/layer_1/cables/tech_lan.htm

AL




"Ignoramus23410" wrote in message
...
I need to run about 100-120 feet of cat5e cable to connect our bedroom
to the utility room where the network switch, DSL router etc is. I
ALSO need to run a phone cable, from utility room to the same
bedroom. I am wondering if all 8 wires on a cat5e cable are used for
Ethernet purposes, and if that is not the case, is there a couple I
could use for phone. That way I could save $$ and time by running one
cable instead of two.

i





  #6   Report Post  
Beachcomber
 
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Default

On 6 Jun 2005 14:35:11 GMT, Ignoramus23410
wrote:

On 06 Jun 2005 14:19:45 GMT, badgolferman wrote:
Ignoramus23410, 6/6/2005, 9:58:12 AM, wrote:

I need to run about 100-120 feet of cat5e cable to connect our bedroom
to the utility room where the network switch, DSL router etc is. I
ALSO need to run a phone cable, from utility room to the same
bedroom. I am wondering if all 8 wires on a cat5e cable are used for
Ethernet purposes, and if that is not the case, is there a couple I
could use for phone. That way I could save $$ and time by running one
cable instead of two.

i


Cat 5 is fine for phone and Cat 5 is fine for Ethernet, but it is bad
practice to mix the two on the same cable. If at any time you have
phone or Ethernet connection problems, you will need to know what
arcane way the system was wired and it can make testing difficult
unless you have good diagrams. The problem becomes more severe as the
complexity of your system grows.

I'm not saying it won't work and it may be the cheapest way to go, but
a Wiring Pro wouldn't do it that way.

Beachcomber


  #8   Report Post  
Beachcomber
 
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- Run two separate cables (one being cat6) and be done with it

http://www.zytrax.com/tech/layer_1/cables/tech_lan.htm


Maybe I will end up doing that. One advantage to dedicating a cable to
ethernet is that it could run two parallel ethernet connections.


A lot of times there is more to Ethernet than meets the eye. It's
very easy to mess up the connectors and put the wrong colored wire in
the wrong crimp slot. Often more is needed than just a simple
continuity check. Running the cable too close to electric conduits or
fluourescent lamps can cause problems. The mere act of stretching the
cable with 25 lbs of force during installation can dramatically
degrade the performance permanantly.

That's why they have guys going around with 5-10 thousand dollar Fluke
meters going around certifying that the cable installation as meeting
the performance standards for Cat 5, 5e, or 6. Many businesses
require this.

For a home installation, you may not have (or even need) the big bucks
fancy meter, but it pays to take extra care in doing the installation
correctly and not mix it with phone wiring, doorbell circuits, etc.

Beachcomber



  #9   Report Post  
Beachcomber
 
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Thanks. I do not understand what's wrong with putting cat5e cables
next to electrical conduits (we have metallic conduits), but the rest
makes sense to me.

i


Here's a tutorial that perhaps might explain some of the restrictions.
If you tied your cables to electrical conduits for any significant
length, it might still work but it could fail certification.

http://www.lanshack.com/cat5e-tutorial.asp


From a physics standpoint, what you are concerned with is
electromagnetic shielding. A grounded conduit provides nearly 100%
electrostatic shielding, but the currents in the electrical conductors
within produce a dynamic magnetic field that leaves the boundary of
the conduit and is almost impossible to shield or contain.

A few years ago, everyone was concerned about these low frequency
magnetic fields but if was difficult to prove that they caused any
health hazards.

They can and do interfere with communications circuits, though, and
this is why there is a specific prohibition about attatching cat5 to
conduit.


Beachcomber

  #10   Report Post  
Calvin Henry-Cotnam
 
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Beachcomber ) said...

[about using a pair of wires in an Ethernet Cat 5 cable for phone]

I'm not saying it won't work and it may be the cheapest way to go, but
a Wiring Pro wouldn't do it that way.


It would likely work, but at what quality? Even with twisted pairs, there
will be some cross talk between them and the question becomes, "How much
can you tolerate"?

For phone users, this cross talk will show up as hiss and other noise in
the call. Depending on how much is introduced, this may not even be
noticable, or it might be downright annoying.

For data, the cross talk will show up as data errors which will only be
noticable as a slow-down in network traffic (as packets with errors are
resent).

--
Calvin Henry-Cotnam
"Never ascribe to malice what can equally be explained by incompetence."
- Napoleon
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  #11   Report Post  
Unrevealed Source
 
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It is common practice to terminate both an ethernet jack and phone line
using one cat5 cable.

"Ignoramus23410" wrote in message
...
I need to run about 100-120 feet of cat5e cable to connect our bedroom
to the utility room where the network switch, DSL router etc is. I
ALSO need to run a phone cable, from utility room to the same
bedroom. I am wondering if all 8 wires on a cat5e cable are used for
Ethernet purposes, and if that is not the case, is there a couple I
could use for phone. That way I could save $$ and time by running one
cable instead of two.

i



  #12   Report Post  
zxcvbob
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Ignoramus23410 wrote:
I need to run about 100-120 feet of cat5e cable to connect our bedroom
to the utility room where the network switch, DSL router etc is. I
ALSO need to run a phone cable, from utility room to the same
bedroom. I am wondering if all 8 wires on a cat5e cable are used for
Ethernet purposes, and if that is not the case, is there a couple I
could use for phone. That way I could save $$ and time by running one
cable instead of two.

i


You can use the center pair of wires (I'm not sure what the color code
is) for telephone. That's why a RJ45 ethernet connector uses pins
1,2,3,6. 4 and 5 were reserved by the old "Starnet" (Xerox?) standard
for telephone. You can plug an RJ11 telephone line into a RJ45 socket
wired this way to get a telephone signal. I have one jack in my
basement wired like that, but I generally run a seperate CAT3 cable for
telephone.

Bob
  #13   Report Post  
zxcvbob
 
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Default

Beachcomber wrote:
Thanks. I do not understand what's wrong with putting cat5e cables
next to electrical conduits (we have metallic conduits), but the rest
makes sense to me.

i



Here's a tutorial that perhaps might explain some of the restrictions.
If you tied your cables to electrical conduits for any significant
length, it might still work but it could fail certification.

http://www.lanshack.com/cat5e-tutorial.asp


From a physics standpoint, what you are concerned with is
electromagnetic shielding. A grounded conduit provides nearly 100%
electrostatic shielding, but the currents in the electrical conductors
within produce a dynamic magnetic field that leaves the boundary of
the conduit and is almost impossible to shield or contain.

A few years ago, everyone was concerned about these low frequency
magnetic fields but if was difficult to prove that they caused any
health hazards.

They can and do interfere with communications circuits, though, and
this is why there is a specific prohibition about attatching cat5 to
conduit.


Beachcomber



I may be wrong but, I don't think that's right. That's why ethernet
uses twisted pairs of wires -- so it can reject common mode
interference. A voltage caused by a stray magnetic field would be
equally induced on both conductors of the pair and would be rejected.

Bob
  #14   Report Post  
Dan C
 
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On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 22:34:41 -0400, Unrevealed Source wrote:

It is common practice to terminate both an ethernet jack and phone line
using one cat5 cable.


Not in my house, it isn't.

--
If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
Linux Registered User #327951

  #15   Report Post  
CL (dnoyeB) Gilbert
 
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Ignoramus23410 wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 10:13:10 -0400, RichK wrote:

"Ignoramus23410" wrote in message


I am wondering if all 8 wires on a cat5e cable are used for
Ethernet purposes, and if that is not the case, is there a couple I
could use for phone. That way I could save $$ and time by running one
cable instead of two.


No all 8 wires are not used. An Ethernet patch cable has only 4
conductors - there should be a hint in that.



thanks.


You mention a router... are you using only one port on the router? Not sure
what your plans are.



The intended topology of our home network is as follows:

Wall
- DSL Jack
- DSL Modem
- Network Switch
- Linux box
- Windows XP box
- LinkSys wireless router
- Laptop 1
- Laptop 2

DSL modem and network switch are in the basement utility room, and
Windows XP box has been relocated to our bedroom on the opposite side
of the house. That necessitates a 120 ft cable run.

i



Also RJ45 and RJ12 plugs are physically compatible. That is you can
plug an RJ12 (phone) into an RJ45(Ethernet). And if you use the proper
wiring convention (forget if its 568A or 568B) the center wires will be
open and you can have both phone and ethernet in the same jack. Not
that you would want too.

At my old home I had 1 pair running up to my computer room that brought
my ISDN line, 1 pair returning to the basement which was one of the
house phone line that ran from my ISDN Adapter, and connected to the
rest of the house phone lines, and 2 pair for ethernet that ran back to
basement for my router in the basement. It was perfect.

--
Respectfully,


CL Gilbert


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Herb Stein
 
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"CL (dnoyeB) Gilbert" wrote in message
...
Ignoramus23410 wrote:
On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 10:13:10 -0400, RichK wrote:

"Ignoramus23410" wrote in message


I am wondering if all 8 wires on a cat5e cable are used for
Ethernet purposes, and if that is not the case, is there a couple I
could use for phone. That way I could save $$ and time by running one
cable instead of two.

No all 8 wires are not used. An Ethernet patch cable has only 4
conductors - there should be a hint in that.



thanks.


You mention a router... are you using only one port on the router? Not
sure
what your plans are.



The intended topology of our home network is as follows:

Wall - DSL Jack - DSL Modem - Network Switch
- Linux box
- Windows XP box
- LinkSys wireless router
- Laptop 1
- Laptop 2

DSL modem and network switch are in the basement utility room, and
Windows XP box has been relocated to our bedroom on the opposite side
of the house. That necessitates a 120 ft cable run.

i



Also RJ45 and RJ12 plugs are physically compatible. That is you can plug
an RJ12 (phone) into an RJ45(Ethernet). And if you use the proper wiring
convention (forget if its 568A or 568B) the center wires will be open and
you can have both phone and ethernet in the same jack. Not that you
would want too.

At my old home I had 1 pair running up to my computer room that brought my
ISDN line, 1 pair returning to the basement which was one of the house
phone line that ran from my ISDN Adapter, and connected to the rest of the
house phone lines, and 2 pair for ethernet that ran back to basement for
my router in the basement. It was perfect.

--
Respectfully,


CL Gilbert


The whole point of 568A ( or B ) is to have 4 and 5 available for the
telephone.
1, 2, 3 and 6 are the data lines.
--
Herb Stein



  #17   Report Post  
Noozer
 
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I am wondering if all 8 wires on a cat5e cable are used for
Ethernet purposes, and if that is not the case, is there a couple I
could use for phone. That way I could save $$ and time by running one
cable instead of two.

No all 8 wires are not used. An Ethernet patch cable has only 4
conductors - there should be a hint in that.


Just to jump into the middle here...

Gigabit ethernet DOES use ALL eight wires...

Even if you only do 100mb networking, having phone on the unused pair will
still introduce noise and degrade your network.

Pull a separate line for telephone! Do NOT mix your networking with any
other signals on the same bundle.


  #18   Report Post  
CL (dnoyeB) Gilbert
 
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Noozer wrote:
I am wondering if all 8 wires on a cat5e cable are used for
Ethernet purposes, and if that is not the case, is there a couple I
could use for phone. That way I could save $$ and time by running one
cable instead of two.

No all 8 wires are not used. An Ethernet patch cable has only 4
conductors - there should be a hint in that.



Just to jump into the middle here...

Gigabit ethernet DOES use ALL eight wires...

Even if you only do 100mb networking, having phone on the unused pair will
still introduce noise and degrade your network.

Pull a separate line for telephone! Do NOT mix your networking with any
other signals on the same bundle.



A phone line on 1 pair will introduce a lot less noise than a network
line on 2 pair. Its negligible. I would mix. Hes not running an ISP
anyway... Of course I am also one of those people that likes to have an
extra pair, so if you can you might as well run 2. 2xcat 5 is preferred
over 1xcat 5 1x phone line.

--
Respectfully,


CL Gilbert
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