I have a contractor over right now installing a fence and puring a concrete
step. He broke a tool and said that I would have to pay the cost. He won't
be done for a couple of hours still so I'm wondering if I really should be
paying that cost?

How do I know the tool wasn't broken to begin with or worn out so that it
could break at any time?

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

"Vidkid72" wrote in message
.. .
|I have a contractor over right now installing a fence and puring a concrete
| step. He broke a tool and said that I would have to pay the cost. He
won't
| be done for a couple of hours still so I'm wondering if I really should be
| paying that cost?
|
| How do I know the tool wasn't broken to begin with or worn out so that it
| could break at any time?
|
| Any thoughts?
|
| Thanks.
|
|

His tool, he broke, it's his problem (I'd think). All you care of is the job
done right.

Vidkid72 wrote:
I have a contractor over right now installing a fence and puring a concrete
step. He broke a tool and said that I would have to pay the cost. He won't
be done for a couple of hours still so I'm wondering if I really should be
paying that cost?

If his vehicle takes a dump on the way to your house to do your job,
would you pay to fix it?


How do I know the tool wasn't broken to begin with or worn out so that it
could break at any time?

Ask him. He sounds like a completely honest guy...

"Vidkid72" wrote in message
.. .
I have a contractor over right now installing a fence and puring a concrete
step. He broke a tool and said that I would have to pay the cost. He
won't be done for a couple of hours still so I'm wondering if I really
should be paying that cost?

How do I know the tool wasn't broken to begin with or worn out so that it
could break at any time?

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

Are you still laughing? You should be.

Tools are just a part of doing business. They wear out, they break, they
cost money. Not your problem at all. Just tell him he should have been ore
careful and he should buy better tools. Reality is we all pay for the tools
our contractors use. That is part of the price you pay, along with
insurance, his truck payment, pencils and all the cost of doing business.

There may be an exception of a special tool he has to buy up front that
would never be used again. In that case, you would pay for it, but then you
would own it, not him.

Let him take you to court so everyone has a good laugh.

He's absolutely correct, it is your responsibility,in fact if you'd email me
your address, I'd like to stop by with my ailing old work van. I'm sure I
could get it to die on your driveway!!! Just kidding , Legally, unless
you've agreed to something different, his tools are under his care and
control and not your responsibility
"Vidkid72" wrote in message
.. .
I have a contractor over right now installing a fence and puring a concrete
step. He broke a tool and said that I would have to pay the cost. He
won't be done for a couple of hours still so I'm wondering if I really
should be paying that cost?

How do I know the tool wasn't broken to begin with or worn out so that it
could break at any time?

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 18:25:04 GMT, "Ron" wrote:


"Vidkid72" wrote in message
. ..
|I have a contractor over right now installing a fence and puring a concrete
| step. He broke a tool and said that I would have to pay the cost. He
won't
| be done for a couple of hours still so I'm wondering if I really should be
| paying that cost?
|
| How do I know the tool wasn't broken to begin with or worn out so that it
| could break at any time?
|
| Any thoughts?
|
| Thanks.
|
|

His tool, he broke, it's his problem (I'd think). All you care of is the job
done right.

Unless you have a cost-plus contract. Then you pay for worn-out
tools, gas for the generator, etc. I found that out the hard way.

"Vidkid72" wrote in message
.. .
I have a contractor over right now installing a fence and puring a concrete
step. He broke a tool and said that I would have to pay the cost. He
won't be done for a couple of hours still so I'm wondering if I really
should be paying that cost?

How do I know the tool wasn't broken to begin with or worn out so that it
could break at any time?

Any thoughts?

Thanks.


Refuse to pay for it, and if he complains, hand him the telephone number to
the State Contractor's Board. Tell him that you disagree that you should
have to pay for the tool, but will do whatever the Contractor's Arbitration
process instructs you to do. HE must file with the CB, not you. You just
have to answer if he is stupid enough to make a complaint.

If he is a contractor, he knows that what he is asking is laughable. If he
is not a contractor, he won't do a thing.

I recently had a handyman who broke a tool during a remodel. He wanted me
to pay for it. I told him to return items that he kept from during the
remodel, including an expensive saw blade. He changed his mind.

It is a good thing for all to state that a workman covers his own tools, but
it is so laughable. Only the inexperienced or unethical would ask to be
paid.

Steve

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:


"Vidkid72" wrote in message
. ..
I have a contractor over right now installing a fence and puring a concrete
step. He broke a tool and said that I would have to pay the cost. He
won't be done for a couple of hours still so I'm wondering if I really
should be paying that cost?

How do I know the tool wasn't broken to begin with or worn out so that it
could break at any time?

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

Are you still laughing? You should be.

Tools are just a part of doing business. They wear out, they break, they
cost money. Not your problem at all. Just tell him he should have been ore
careful and he should buy better tools. Reality is we all pay for the tools
our contractors use. That is part of the price you pay, along with
insurance, his truck payment, pencils and all the cost of doing business.

There may be an exception of a special tool he has to buy up front that
would never be used again. In that case, you would pay for it, but then you
would own it, not him.

That (cost of tooling) should be in the terms of the deal from the
beginning, just like labor and materials.

Who is this guy? Is he really a Contractor that earns the bulk of his
income from contracting jobs? Or is he just a friend of a friend who is
employed elsewhere and just does odd jobs on the side? Lots of Firemen
moonlight as Contractors.
I can't believe a REAL Contractor would even mention a broken tool. How
expensive is the broken tool to replace? Does the Contractor own the tool,
or did he rent or borrow it?
I would be more concerned that he has Worker's Compensation (may be called
OSHA or something else where you live) coverage in case he gets injured
while working on your property.

Please let us know how this situation turns out.

Des


"Vidkid72" wrote in message
.. .
I have a contractor over right now installing a fence and puring a
concrete
step. He broke a tool and said that I would have to pay the cost. He
won't
be done for a couple of hours still so I'm wondering if I really should be
paying that cost?

How do I know the tool wasn't broken to begin with or worn out so that it
could break at any time?

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

Vidkid72 wrote:
I have a contractor over right now installing a fence and puring a
concrete step. He broke a tool and said that I would have to pay the
cost. He won't be done for a couple of hours still so I'm wondering
if I really should be paying that cost?

How do I know the tool wasn't broken to begin with or worn out so
that it could break at any time?

Any thoughts?

Sign in a children's bookstore (about 3' from the floor): "You bite it, you
bought it."

If you own the tool he owes you !

If he owns the tool he needs to learn how to use it properly so it does
not;t get broken !
"Vidkid72" wrote in message
.. .
I have a contractor over right now installing a fence and puring a concrete
step. He broke a tool and said that I would have to pay the cost. He
won't be done for a couple of hours still so I'm wondering if I really
should be paying that cost?

How do I know the tool wasn't broken to begin with or worn out so that it
could break at any time?

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

You must pay for the tool and any wear and tear on others that are not
broke. It is standard since you hired him as a laborer and any extras are
just that, extras.
Standard is replacement cost plus 10% for overhead and 10% for profit. No
exceptions~!

--


Remove the obvious to reply. Experienced and reliable
Concrete Finishing and Synthetic Stucco application in the GTA.
"barbarow" wrote in message
news:J1Pne.14799$Vm4.11559@trnddc01...
If you own the tool he owes you !

If he owns the tool he needs to learn how to use it properly so it does
not;t get broken !
"Vidkid72" wrote in message
.. .
I have a contractor over right now installing a fence and puring a
concrete
step. He broke a tool and said that I would have to pay the cost. He
won't be done for a couple of hours still so I'm wondering if I really
should be paying that cost?

How do I know the tool wasn't broken to begin with or worn out so that
it
could break at any time?

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

Great humor. Now tell us about Santy Claus and the Easter Bunny.

===========

ConcreteFinishing&StuccoGuy wrote in message ...
You must pay for the tool and any wear and tear on others that are not
broke. It is standard since you hired him as a laborer and any extras are
just that, extras.
Standard is replacement cost plus 10% for overhead and 10% for profit. No
exceptions

"Gideon" wrote in message
...
Great humor. Now tell us about Santy Claus and the Easter Bunny.

===========

ConcreteFinishing&StuccoGuy wrote in message ...
You must pay for the tool and any wear and tear on others that are not
broke. It is standard since you hired him as a laborer and any extras are
just that, extras.
Standard is replacement cost plus 10% for overhead and 10% for profit. No
exceptions



Yeah, I like the ones about Santy, and the Easter Bunny, but this one has
the potential of becoming a REAL classic!

STeve

SteveB wrote:
"Gideon" wrote in message
...

Great humor. Now tell us about Santy Claus and the Easter Bunny.

===========

ConcreteFinishing&StuccoGuy wrote in message ...
You must pay for the tool and any wear and tear on others that are not
broke. It is standard since you hired him as a laborer and any extras are
just that, extras.
Standard is replacement cost plus 10% for overhead and 10% for profit. No
exceptions




Yeah, I like the ones about Santy, and the Easter Bunny, but this one has
the potential of becoming a REAL classic!

STeve



And probably all over a pick handle or a tape measure...

On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 05:28:55 GMT, scribbled this
interesting note:

Where you are asking a trade to risk damage to his equipment outside
normal risk, it is appropriate for him to ask you to indemnify him
against the risk. HOWEVER this should be done in advance.

Ken,


This seems reasonable, but I would further state that if this is the
case, the person doing the hiring, and assuming the risk of damage to
tools, should only be required to replace with like tools, meaning if
a tool is half depreciated and becomes damaged, the replacement tool
should be of like characteristics. It should not be required that a
half worn out tool be replaced with a new one, and if it is replaced
with a new one, then the person assuming the risk should only be
required to pay for half the original purchase price of the now broken
tool, not half the purchase price of a new one.

Personally, I'd shy away from anyone wanting me to replace his
equipment of it breaks while working for me. It is part of the cost of
doing business and replacement of his tools should be built into his
cost structure, since we all know tools wear and eventually break.


--
John Willis
(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

"G Henslee" wrote in message
...
SteveB wrote:
"Gideon" wrote in message
...

Great humor. Now tell us about Santy Claus and the Easter Bunny.

===========

ConcreteFinishing&StuccoGuy wrote in message ...
You must pay for the tool and any wear and tear on others that are not
broke. It is standard since you hired him as a laborer and any extras
are
just that, extras.
Standard is replacement cost plus 10% for overhead and 10% for profit.
No
exceptions




Yeah, I like the ones about Santy, and the Easter Bunny, but this one has
the potential of becoming a REAL classic!

STeve

And probably all over a pick handle or a tape measure...

Yes, GG, but IT'S THE PRINCIPAL OF THE THING! Whoops. Sorry for shouting.
I got carried away thinking of breaking a tape measure ..........

Especially a good one.

Steve

"John Willis" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 05:28:55 GMT, scribbled this
interesting note:

Where you are asking a trade to risk damage to his equipment outside
normal risk, it is appropriate for him to ask you to indemnify him
against the risk. HOWEVER this should be done in advance.

Ken,


This seems reasonable, but I would further state that if this is the
case, the person doing the hiring, and assuming the risk of damage to
tools, should only be required to replace with like tools, meaning if
a tool is half depreciated and becomes damaged, the replacement tool
should be of like characteristics. It should not be required that a
half worn out tool be replaced with a new one, and if it is replaced
with a new one, then the person assuming the risk should only be
required to pay for half the original purchase price of the now broken
tool, not half the purchase price of a new one.

Personally, I'd shy away from anyone wanting me to replace his
equipment of it breaks while working for me. It is part of the cost of
doing business and replacement of his tools should be built into his
cost structure, since we all know tools wear and eventually break.


--
John Willis
(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

And, I believe that it may also become necessary to have a notarized
document prepared by an attorney to cover all codicils, conditions, and
caveats. Of course, the cost of this would have to be borne by the
consumer, non-negotiable, and non-refundable.

And don't forget the clauses if I break a nail, or tear my shirt.

And speaking of shirts, what about depreciation, wear, and cleaning? Uhoh.
Another clause.

Do you know how much they get for a good nail job today? The ones with the
Home Depot appliques? A LOT!

Tool torts. Has kind of a turd hitting the floor ring to it, don't you
think?

Steve

Thanks for the responses guys. We've only hired a contractor once before so
I wasn't really too sure about this and was leaning towards not having to
pay for the tool but wanted to be more sure before disputing it with the
contractor.

This gets better though. He was cutting a rebar in cement and had to rent a
tool to do so. He also needed to buy the blades which he said I'd have to
pay for since he bought them for that only. I don't mind this as its 9.00
and can understand this. He also said that something broke on the tool and
he was charged a 25.00 fee when he returned the item.

Well it just so happens that he left (of all things) the rental agreement
with the tool place close to here after he was done yesterday on the lawn.
I picked it up and read it and it says nothing about any damages and there
was a rental fee of 40.00 for the cutter and 25.00 for something else. I
suspected he wasn't aware of the 25.00 charge for renting this tool and
tried to pass it on to me. After my wife called the tool rental place today
they said nothing was damaged and that the 25.00 charge is an additional
piece that was needed for the primary tool rental.

So now it looks like we have hired a dishonest contractor. He's finishing
up today and I'll post the outcome back here.

Too bad for him because we still need a suspended ceiling and a room built
in the basement and would've more than likely used him again.

Thanks for all the advice.


"SteveB" wrote in message
news:R00oe.765$tr.647@fed1read03...

"John Willis" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 05:28:55 GMT, scribbled this
interesting note:

Where you are asking a trade to risk damage to his equipment outside
normal risk, it is appropriate for him to ask you to indemnify him
against the risk. HOWEVER this should be done in advance.

Ken,


This seems reasonable, but I would further state that if this is the
case, the person doing the hiring, and assuming the risk of damage to
tools, should only be required to replace with like tools, meaning if
a tool is half depreciated and becomes damaged, the replacement tool
should be of like characteristics. It should not be required that a
half worn out tool be replaced with a new one, and if it is replaced
with a new one, then the person assuming the risk should only be
required to pay for half the original purchase price of the now broken
tool, not half the purchase price of a new one.

Personally, I'd shy away from anyone wanting me to replace his
equipment of it breaks while working for me. It is part of the cost of
doing business and replacement of his tools should be built into his
cost structure, since we all know tools wear and eventually break.


--
John Willis
(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

And, I believe that it may also become necessary to have a notarized
document prepared by an attorney to cover all codicils, conditions, and
caveats. Of course, the cost of this would have to be borne by the
consumer, non-negotiable, and non-refundable.

And don't forget the clauses if I break a nail, or tear my shirt.

And speaking of shirts, what about depreciation, wear, and cleaning?
Uhoh. Another clause.

Do you know how much they get for a good nail job today? The ones with
the Home Depot appliques? A LOT!

Tool torts. Has kind of a turd hitting the floor ring to it, don't you
think?

Steve

"Vidkid72" wrote in message
...

He also said that something broke on the tool and
he was charged a 25.00 fee when he returned the item.


He rented it, not you. If he was too stupid or cheap to take the damage
waiver, then he should have paid the damages, of which there were none,
anyway.

I have rented cars and tools, and I believe the damage waiver is cheap and
easy any way you go despite people who will say they are unnecessary and
that they already have enough insurance. I take it every time, because you
just walk away pretty much no matter what happens.

Did you see, "Meet the Fokkers"? A funny situation about not taking the
insurance is in the movie.

Sounds like this guy would not be a candidate for more work, and I would
explain that making a few bucks on this job has cost him a bigger one. But
it sounds like he won't care anyway.

Well, this gives you more experience to handle the next situation. Good
luck. Welcome to home repair.

Steve

Ok all went well other than I know he's a -little- shady now. He ran into 2
problems drilling holes for the fence and the contract says that if there
are any obstacles that its an additional 20.00 per hole. He didn't charge
me that and he also installed an automatic spring door closer since the
fence is around a pool. He also didn't charge me for the blades he had to
buy and lastly I complained that he scratched the heck out of the door frame
and he went and got a replacement.

All in all I am very happy with the outcome. His quote and final price
differed by only 25.00. Considering he was here for 2 days for what
should've been a one day job and that I'm happy with the work he did I think
everything turned out ok.

"Usmiech" wrote in message
news:1117848723.ef6313c43e6fccfa887fbe3b56f18d94@b ubbanews...
He's running a shake down!

"Usmiech" wrote in message
news:1117848723.ef6313c43e6fccfa887fbe3b56f18d94@b ubbanews...
He's running a shake down!

The OP was concerned that he was going to be done in a couple of hours and
demand payment. So far, no follow up. Ask questions, then don't bother to
tell us the result.

Vidkid72, 6/3/2005, 10:22:31 PM, wrote:

Ok all went well other than I know he's a -little- shady now. He ran
into 2 problems drilling holes for the fence and the contract says
that if there are any obstacles that its an additional 20.00 per
hole. He didn't charge me that and he also installed an automatic
spring door closer since the fence is around a pool. He also didn't
charge me for the blades he had to buy and lastly I complained that
he scratched the heck out of the door frame and he went and got a
replacement.

All in all I am very happy with the outcome. His quote and final
price differed by only 25.00. Considering he was here for 2 days for
what should've been a one day job and that I'm happy with the work he
did I think everything turned out ok.

Considering all the huffin' and puffin' going on here you did well not
to antagonize him and wait for the final bill. However considering the
suspicions you have had of him you might reconsider having him do the
future upgrades you wanted.

--
No matter what happens someone will find a way to take it too seriously.

"Vidkid72" wrote in message
.. .
I have a contractor over right now installing a fence and puring a concrete
step. He broke a tool and said that I would have to pay the cost. He won't be
done for a couple of hours still so I'm wondering if I really should be paying
that cost?

How do I know the tool wasn't broken to begin with or worn out so that it
could break at any time?

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

This is Turtle.

i just did a job for you on your HVAC system for a cost of $135.00 and when I
was writting up the invoice for you to sign and pay me. I broke my Rolls Royce
ink pen and I tell you your going to have to pay for my ink pen breakage of a
cost of $14,000.00.

Will you go for that ?

TURTLE

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"Usmiech" wrote in message
news:1117848723.ef6313c43e6fccfa887fbe3b56f18d94@b ubbanews...
He's running a shake down!

The OP was concerned that he was going to be done in a couple of hours and
demand payment. So far, no follow up. Ask questions, then don't bother
to
tell us the result.

Hmmm. I read the OP's two followups before I got to this post. Problems w/
the newsreader?
gene

"gene" wrote in message
.net...

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"Usmiech" wrote in message
news:1117848723.ef6313c43e6fccfa887fbe3b56f18d94@b ubbanews...
He's running a shake down!

The OP was concerned that he was going to be done in a couple of hours
and
demand payment. So far, no follow up. Ask questions, then don't bother
to
tell us the result.

Hmmm. I read the OP's two followups before I got to this post. Problems
w/
the newsreader?
gene


I did see one follow up about 20 minutes after I posted. I'm glad it worked
out OK. Lack of follow up is, unfortunately, too common by most of the
people asking question. This guy did have the courtesy though.

Agree with " ... this guy would not be a candidate for more work, and
I would explain that making a few bucks on this job has cost him a
bigger one. But it sounds like he won't care anyway." and that was I
told the plumber when he charged us for jackhammer rental as his was
broke. Also reported it to local BBB. I should have let him go to
small claims but figured the hassle would be more frustrating.

On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:03:04 -0700, "SteveB"
wrote:


"Vidkid72" wrote in message
m...

He also said that something broke on the tool and
he was charged a 25.00 fee when he returned the item.


He rented it, not you. If he was too stupid or cheap to take the damage
waiver, then he should have paid the damages, of which there were none,
anyway.

I have rented cars and tools, and I believe the damage waiver is cheap and
easy any way you go despite people who will say they are unnecessary and
that they already have enough insurance. I take it every time, because you
just walk away pretty much no matter what happens.

Did you see, "Meet the Fokkers"? A funny situation about not taking the
insurance is in the movie.

Sounds like this guy would not be a candidate for more work, and I would
explain that making a few bucks on this job has cost him a bigger one. But
it sounds like he won't care anyway.

Well, this gives you more experience to handle the next situation. Good
luck. Welcome to home repair.

Steve

In article ,
Vidkid72 wrote:
I have a contractor over right now installing a fence and puring a concrete
step. He broke a tool and said that I would have to pay the cost. He won't
be done for a couple of hours still so I'm wondering if I really should be
paying that cost?

How do I know the tool wasn't broken to begin with or worn out so that it
could break at any time?

Any thoughts?

Thanks.



My thought is, IS THIS FOR REAL?


--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland