Delta has a kitchen fawcet that you can control manually but it will
also toggle on and off by touching the metal part of the fawcet spout or
neck.

I'm wondering if it's possible to buy the electronics and the valve that
performs the touch-control separately (either from Delta or maybe
someone else makes such a kit) so that I can adapt it for operation on
another type of kitchen fawcet.

I know there are many motion-sensing fawcets, but I'm not interested in
that sort of control mechanism for a kitchen fawcet.

On Jan 16, 12:38*pm, House Guy wrote:
Delta has a kitchen fawcet that you can control manually but it will
also toggle on and off by touching the metal part of the fawcet spout or
neck.

I'm wondering if it's possible to buy the electronics and the valve that
performs the touch-control separately (either from Delta or maybe
someone else makes such a kit) so that I can adapt it for operation on
another type of kitchen fawcet.

I know there are many motion-sensing fawcets, but I'm not interested in
that sort of control mechanism for a kitchen fawcet.

I would suggest going to Delta's website & see what the control module
looks like.

I'm guessing that is it somewhat proprietary and not easily amenable
to pirating it over to another faucet. But if you;re handy near
anything is possible.

cheers
Bob

DD_BobK wrote:

Delta has a kitchen faucet that you can control manually but it
will also toggle on and off by touching the metal part of the
faucet spout or neck.

I'm wondering if it's possible to buy the electronics and the
valve that performs the touch-control separately

I would suggest going to Delta's website & see what the control
module looks like. I'm guessing that is it somewhat proprietary
and not easily amenable to pirating it over to another faucet.

A patent was filed by a couple of guys in 2004 for this touch-control
mechanism. Such a simple idea - I'm surprised it was filed so recently.

The patent was assigned to Masco, which owns the Delta, Peerless and
Brizo brands. This touch-control mechanism was introduced by Delta in
it's "Pilar" model kitchen faucet almost a year ago (no other models
have it). Brizo also has one model with the touch control. No Peerless
models have it (as you'd expect).

When I look at the parts and installation diagrams, other than perhaps
having difficulty with the hose fittings to/from the control unit, it
seems quite possible to use the control module with another faucet. The
trick would be to insure that the faucet spout was electrically
insulated from counter-top or sink (assuming one or both are metallic).

Alternatively, given a metallic sink (above-counter mounted) on a
non-metallic counter, it should be possible to connect the sense-wire to
both the spout and the sink. That would mean that controlling the water
flow could be done by just touching anywhere on the sink surface.

Alternatively, if there is some other insulated metal structure nearby
(mounted to a wall, or the counter) then that could serve as the
touch-control surface. Even a decorative item like trim installed for
just that purpose.

On Jan 17, 1:36*pm, House Guy wrote:
DD_BobK wrote:
Delta has a kitchen faucet that you can control manually but it
will also toggle on and off by touching the metal part of the
faucet spout or neck.

I'm wondering if it's possible to buy the electronics and the
valve that performs the touch-control separately

I would suggest going to Delta's website & see what the control
module looks like. *I'm guessing that is it somewhat proprietary
and not easily amenable to pirating it over to another faucet.

A patent was filed by a couple of guys in 2004 for this touch-control
mechanism. *Such a simple idea - I'm surprised it was filed so recently..

The patent was assigned to Masco, which owns the Delta, Peerless and
Brizo brands. *This touch-control mechanism was introduced by Delta in
it's "Pilar" model kitchen faucet almost a year ago (no other models
have it). *Brizo also has one model with the touch control. *No Peerless
models have it (as you'd expect).

When I look at the parts and installation diagrams, other than perhaps
having difficulty with the hose fittings to/from the control unit, it
seems quite possible to use the control module with another faucet. *The
trick would be to insure that the faucet spout was electrically
insulated from counter-top or sink (assuming one or both are metallic).

Alternatively, given a metallic sink (above-counter mounted) on a
non-metallic counter, it should be possible to connect the sense-wire to
both the spout and the sink. *That would mean that controlling the water
flow could be done by just touching anywhere on the sink surface. *

Alternatively, if there is some other insulated metal structure nearby
(mounted to a wall, or the counter) then that could serve as the
touch-control surface. *Even a decorative item like trim installed for
just that purpose.

Have you considered a foot operated switch? Hands-free.

R

On Jan 17, 12:49*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Jan 17, 1:36*pm, House Guy wrote:





DD_BobK wrote:
Delta has a kitchen faucet that you can control manually but it
will also toggle on and off by touching the metal part of the
faucet spout or neck.

I'm wondering if it's possible to buy the electronics and the
valve that performs the touch-control separately

I would suggest going to Delta's website & see what the control
module looks like. *I'm guessing that is it somewhat proprietary
and not easily amenable to pirating it over to another faucet.

A patent was filed by a couple of guys in 2004 for this touch-control
mechanism. *Such a simple idea - I'm surprised it was filed so recently.

The patent was assigned to Masco, which owns the Delta, Peerless and
Brizo brands. *This touch-control mechanism was introduced by Delta in
it's "Pilar" model kitchen faucet almost a year ago (no other models
have it). *Brizo also has one model with the touch control. *No Peerless
models have it (as you'd expect).

When I look at the parts and installation diagrams, other than perhaps
having difficulty with the hose fittings to/from the control unit, it
seems quite possible to use the control module with another faucet. *The
trick would be to insure that the faucet spout was electrically
insulated from counter-top or sink (assuming one or both are metallic).

Alternatively, given a metallic sink (above-counter mounted) on a
non-metallic counter, it should be possible to connect the sense-wire to
both the spout and the sink. *That would mean that controlling the water
flow could be done by just touching anywhere on the sink surface. *

Alternatively, if there is some other insulated metal structure nearby
(mounted to a wall, or the counter) then that could serve as the
touch-control surface. *Even a decorative item like trim installed for
just that purpose.

Have you considered a foot operated switch? *Hands-free.

R- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Think of the module as being like one that turns a lamp on whenever
you touch a metal part of the lamp. Only the output of the module,
instead of going to the bulb in the lamp, goes to a valve in the water
supply line.

On Jan 17, 8:29*pm, "hr(bob) "
wrote:
On Jan 17, 12:49*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Jan 17, 1:36*pm, House Guy wrote:
DD_BobK wrote:

Delta has a kitchen faucet that you can control manually but it
will also toggle on and off by touching the metal part of the
faucet spout or neck.

I'm wondering if it's possible to buy the electronics and the
valve that performs the touch-control separately

I would suggest going to Delta's website & see what the control
module looks like. *I'm guessing that is it somewhat proprietary
and not easily amenable to pirating it over to another faucet.

A patent was filed by a couple of guys in 2004 for this touch-control
mechanism. *Such a simple idea - I'm surprised it was filed so recently.

The patent was assigned to Masco, which owns the Delta, Peerless and
Brizo brands. *This touch-control mechanism was introduced by Delta in
it's "Pilar" model kitchen faucet almost a year ago (no other models
have it). *Brizo also has one model with the touch control. *No Peerless
models have it (as you'd expect).

When I look at the parts and installation diagrams, other than perhaps
having difficulty with the hose fittings to/from the control unit, it
seems quite possible to use the control module with another faucet. *The
trick would be to insure that the faucet spout was electrically
insulated from counter-top or sink (assuming one or both are metallic).

Alternatively, given a metallic sink (above-counter mounted) on a
non-metallic counter, it should be possible to connect the sense-wire to
both the spout and the sink. *That would mean that controlling the water
flow could be done by just touching anywhere on the sink surface. *

Alternatively, if there is some other insulated metal structure nearby
(mounted to a wall, or the counter) then that could serve as the
touch-control surface. *Even a decorative item like trim installed for
just that purpose.

Have you considered a foot operated switch? *Hands-free.

Think of the module as being like one that turns a lamp on whenever
you touch a metal part of the lamp. *Only the output of the module,
instead of going to the bulb in the lamp, goes to a valve in the water
supply line.

I know how the things work, thanks. The foot operated pedals are
something that can be easily retrofitted to any existing faucet and
are readily available. Hands-free operation is superior for most
washing operations.

R

RicodJour wrote:

I know how the things work, thanks. The foot operated pedals are
something that can be easily retrofitted to any existing faucet and
are readily available. Hands-free operation is superior for most
washing operations.

Do you mean a mechanical or electrical foot pedal?

You said that foot pedals are easily retrofitted into any existing
faucet - by that I'm thinking that you mean some sort of
mechanically-operated water valve requiring running new water lines to
the foot pedal. If so, I wouldn't call that an easy retrofit.

If you mean an electrically-operated valve that's operated via foot
pedal, where exactly would you get that?

In any case, the use of a foot pedal to turn a kitchen faucet on and off
is not my idea of ergonomic, as compared to a touch-activated water
valve.

I see that the Delta faucet in question is sold by HomeDepot.com as an
internet-only item, for about $350.

On Jan 17, 11:44*pm, House Guy wrote:
RicodJour wrote:

I know how the things work, thanks. *The foot operated pedals are
something that can be easily retrofitted to any existing faucet and
are readily available. *Hands-free operation is superior for most
washing operations.

Do you mean a mechanical or electrical foot pedal?

I was referring to a mechanical linkage like those used in hospitals
and commercial kitchens. For example:
http://www.metaefficient.com/bathroo...ntrollers.html
http://www.chicagofaucetshoppe.com/S...s.asp?Cat=2577

But there are electrically operated ones that have the same capacitive
control as the Delta Touch faucet:
http://www.footfaucet.net/how_it_works.htm

You said that foot pedals are easily retrofitted into any existing
faucet - by that I'm thinking that you mean some sort of
mechanically-operated water valve requiring running new water lines to
the foot pedal. *If so, I wouldn't call that an easy retrofit.

If someone can swap out a faucet, they can install the pedal operated
switch.

If you mean an electrically-operated valve that's operated via foot
pedal, where exactly would you get that?

See above.

In any case, the use of a foot pedal to turn a kitchen faucet on and off
is not my idea of ergonomic, as compared to a touch-activated water
valve.

People use two hands when they wash dishes - I don't see how you can
wash a pot with one hand. Your hands are often dirty when you are
going to turn on the faucet, and wet when you go to turn it off. The
foot pedals add another dimension in control. You can turn the faucet
on and off easily and repeatedly with foot pedals, and accidentally
brushing the faucet won't accidentally cause something to happen.

There are many times that you need two hands to hold something and
need to turn the water on or off. I suppose that you could get used
to using the back of your wrist to bump the faucet or something, but
that seems awkward. The foot pedal is a more natural added control -
like driving a car.

I see that the Delta faucet in question is sold by HomeDepot.com as an
internet-only item, for about $350.

The Delta faucet requires you to turn on the faucet by hand, then the
touch thing works. You still have to adjust water temperature and
flow rate by hand, whereas the foot-operated pedals allow you to do
that on the fly. Both units have a market, but you brought up
ergonomics, and the foot-pedal operated units win...wait for
it...hands down.

R

RicodJour wrote:

I was referring to a mechanical linkage like those used in
hospitals and commercial kitchens. For example:

(examples of institutional foot pedals)

I can't see that ever working well in a household. Too many stubbed
toes.

But there are electrically operated ones that have the same
capacitive control as the Delta Touch faucet:

http://www.footfaucet.net/how_it_works.htm

That does not show a capacitive touch control. That is an arrangement
of electrical switches with control levers long enough to be operated by
your toes.

If someone can swap out a faucet, they can install the pedal
operated switch.

I can't honestly understand why a mechanical (or even electrical)
foot-operated switch would be preferred over a conveinently-positioned
hand-operated touch control when it comes to turning your kitchen faucet
on or off.

In any case, the use of a foot pedal to turn a kitchen faucet on
and off is not my idea of ergonomic, as compared to a touch-
activated water valve.

People use two hands when they wash dishes - I don't see how you
can wash a pot with one hand.

You should watch the video that Delta has on their website for this
touch-control faucet. You don't have to use your hands. You can use
your forearm, elbow, etc. My idea to extend the touch-control surface
to the actual sink itself (assuming it's stainless steel) would make it
trivial to activate the switch regardless what you're doing with your
hands.

Your hands are often dirty when you are going to turn on the
faucet, and wet when you go to turn it off.

That wouldn't matter with a capacitive touch control.

I see that the Delta faucet in question is sold by HomeDepot.com
as an internet-only item, for about $350.

The Delta faucet requires you to turn on the faucet by hand,
then the touch thing works.

Sort-of. It requires that you adust the temperature mix and flow rate
just like an ordinary faucet, but once that's set, you can turn the
water off and on repeatedly by touching the spout. You could do that
with a foot pedal if you ran the water line from the mixing valves to
the foot pedal and then up to the spout. Controlling the hot and cold
water separately with a foot pedal isn't satisfactory in my opinion
because you can't really control the mix ratio or the volume flow rate
in a satisfactory way.

You still have to adjust water temperature and flow rate by
hand, whereas the foot-operated pedals allow you to do
that on the fly.

I highly doubt that that someone has the dexterity with their feet to be
able to modulate the hot and cold pedals with enough precision to give
them the desired water temperature.

and the foot-pedal operated units win

Sorry, I think a touch-control is more ergonomic, certainly less
expensive and faster to install, more durable and requires less
maintainence.

On Jan 18, 10:02*am, Home Guy wrote:
*My idea to extend the touch-control surface
to the actual sink itself (assuming it's stainless steel) would make it
trivial to activate the switch regardless what you're doing with your
hands.

That is completely retarded. People lean their forearms on the edge of
the sink while washing dishes. People inadverdently touch the sink
when reaching for the next dish to wash. People touch the sink when
they lean over it to look out the kitchen window. People touch the
sink when they put dishes in after a meal (but aren't necessarily
going to wash them RIGHT NOW). Now every time any of those happen, the
water goes on, or off... That would get VERY annoying in short order.

Here's a very common scenario: The sink is full of dishes. The faucet
is aimed at a plate on the top of the stack. Someone pulls in the
driveway. You go up to the kitchen window to see who it is. You lean
ahead to get a better look, placing your hands on the edge of the sink
for stability. BLAMMO! The faucet comes on, and water goes EVERYWHERE!

Yeah, that's real ergonomic. Did you even think about this?

I highly doubt that that someone has the dexterity with their feet to be
able to modulate the hot and cold pedals with enough precision to give
them the desired water temperature.

If they don't have the dexterity to do that, then they don't have the
dexterity to stand.

Foot pedal controls have been used in commercial kitchens for decades.
They seem to work fine there.

Sorry, I think a touch-control is more ergonomic, certainly less
expensive and faster to install, more durable and requires less
maintainence.

Touch-control faucets are a GIMMICK, nothing more. They offer nothing
but a way to separate more money from your wallet. A foot pedal
control offers far better ergonomics no matter how far you shove your
fingers in your ears and scream LA-LA-LA-LA-LA. Unless you hand-wash
dishes for a living, though, it's not worth the expense. Many homes
have automatic dish washers these days, and those that don't probably
can't afford a fancy $350 touch control faucet anyway.

On Jan 18, 10:02*am, Home Guy wrote:
RicodJour wrote:
I was referring to a mechanical linkage like those used in
hospitals and commercial kitchens. *For example:

(examples of institutional foot pedals)

I can't see that ever working well in a household. *Too many stubbed
toes.

People in your household run into the toe kick space often? It's just
as dangerous as a foot pedal on a garbage can - which is not.

But there are electrically operated ones that have the same
capacitive control as the Delta Touch faucet:

http://www.footfaucet.net/how_it_works.htm

That does not show a capacitive touch control. *That is an arrangement
of electrical switches with control levers long enough to be operated by
your toes.

Reading is fundamental - from the bottom of that page:
"For the times when you are bare foot, the Foot Faucet has Patent
Pending touch sensor technology that operates the hot and cold water
by just touching the pedal, no force required. The garbage disposal
pedal does not have the touch sensor feature, that pedal must be
pushed to get it to activate."

Notice the "bare foot", "touch sensor", and "no force required"...? I
can provide information, but I can't make you read it.

If someone can swap out a faucet, they can install the pedal
operated switch.

I can't honestly understand why a mechanical (or even electrical)
foot-operated switch would be preferred over a conveinently-positioned
hand-operated touch control when it comes to turning your kitchen faucet
on or off.

This is apparent.

In any case, the use of a foot pedal to turn a kitchen faucet on
and off is not my idea of ergonomic, as compared to a touch-
activated water valve.

People use two hands when they wash dishes - *I don't see how you
can wash a pot with one hand.

You should watch the video that Delta has on their website for this
touch-control faucet. *You don't have to use your hands. *You can use
your forearm, elbow, etc. *My idea to extend the touch-control surface
to the actual sink itself (assuming it's stainless steel) would make it
trivial to activate the switch regardless what you're doing with your
hands.

Right, of course...how are you going to isolate the sink so it isn't
grounded when it's _full of water_! No one ever touches a sink unless
they want to turn the water on or off? How does one reach in to get a
utensil off of the sink bottom without triggering the water control?

Your hands are often dirty when you are going to turn on the
faucet, and wet when you go to turn it off.

That wouldn't matter with a capacitive touch control.

Sigh. So this miracle Delta faucet is now also self-cleaning?

You have an idea, unfortunately it's faulty. I'm not arguing with
you, as there's no point. You can easily prove me wrong by rigging
your capacitor total sink control and patenting it. I just hope you
have deep pockets and aren't thin-skinned.

R

On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 10:02:16 -0500, Home Guy wrote:

RicodJour wrote:

snip

If someone can swap out a faucet, they can install the pedal
operated switch.

I can't honestly understand why a mechanical (or even electrical)
foot-operated switch would be preferred over a conveinently-positioned
hand-operated touch control when it comes to turning your kitchen faucet
on or off.

Think about cleaning a paint roller. Doctors don't touch *anything*
with their hands after they've scrubbed (other than gloves). The same
theory applies to any hand-washing sink. I'd expect to see more foot
controls, given the H1N1 paranoia.

I can't believe the numb nuts around here.

wrote:

That is completely retarded. People lean their forearms on the
edge of the sink while washing dishes.

Maybe short people do. Short people who have metal-edged counter tops I
guess. Look - clearly if extending the touch-active surface to the sink
itself is problematic, then don't do it. That still leaves the spout
and the faucet control as the touch surface.

I highly doubt that that someone has the dexterity with their
feet to be able to modulate the hot and cold pedals with enough
precision to give them the desired water temperature.

If they don't have the dexterity to do that, then they don't have
the dexterity to stand. Foot pedal controls have been used in
commercial kitchens for decades.

And hospitals, prisons, nursing homes. And that's where they'll stay.

Touch-control faucets are a GIMMICK, nothing more. They offer
nothing but a way to separate more money from your wallet.

At a cost of a few hundred dollars minimum, and require additional
carpentry work to install, foot pedals are more expensive. And I still
say that they are more cumbersome to use. You want the water to keep
flowing? Keep your foot on the pedal. You want to walk away and keep
the water flowing? Sorry, can't do it.

Many homes have automatic dish washers these days, and those
that don't probably can't afford a fancy $350 touch control
faucet anyway.

Have you seen the prices for kitchen faucets with built-in pull-down
heads? And you can get this one with touch-control for $320 at home
depot?

You must own a foot-pedal store to be so passionate about this.

RicodJour wrote:

Right, of course...how are you going to isolate the sink so it
isn't grounded when it's _full of water_!

What happens when all your drain pipes are made of abs plastic? What do
you think the resistance to ground is of a tub of water? And we're not
exactly talking about salt water here.

No one ever touches a sink unless they want to turn the water on
or off? How does one reach in to get a utensil off of the sink
bottom without triggering the water control?

If extending the touch-control surface to the sink itself doesn't work
as intended, then don't do it. This particular Delta faucet doesn't
work that way anyways. Only touching the spout or the control lever
will turn it on or off.

You have an idea, unfortunately it's faulty. I'm not arguing
with you, as there's no point. You can easily prove me wrong
by rigging your capacitor total sink control and patenting it.
I just hope you have deep pockets and aren't thin-skinned.

I have no interest to commercialize any idea. That was never the point
of this thread. I don't know why you're being such an asshole about it.

krw wrote:

I can't honestly understand why a mechanical (or even electrical)
foot-operated switch would be preferred over a conveinently-
positioned hand-operated touch control when it comes to turning
your kitchen faucet on or off.

Think about cleaning a paint roller. Doctors don't touch
*anything* with their hands after they've scrubbed (other than
gloves). The same theory applies to any hand-washing sink.
I'd expect to see more foot controls, given the H1N1 paranoia.

Truth is that metallic surfaces tend to kill a lot of bacteria and
viruses. So there's no point putting a lot of effort into selling foot
pedals on the belief that you're increasing kitchen hygiene.

To compare the average kitchen sink area to that of a surgical scub sink
is absurd.

Even if one of Delta's selling points for a touch-control faucet is
hygiene related, I don't put any stock in it.

On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 20:04:00 -0500, Home Guy wrote:

krw wrote:

I can't honestly understand why a mechanical (or even electrical)
foot-operated switch would be preferred over a conveinently-
positioned hand-operated touch control when it comes to turning
your kitchen faucet on or off.

Think about cleaning a paint roller. Doctors don't touch
*anything* with their hands after they've scrubbed (other than
gloves). The same theory applies to any hand-washing sink.
I'd expect to see more foot controls, given the H1N1 paranoia.

Truth is that metallic surfaces tend to kill a lot of bacteria and
viruses. So there's no point putting a lot of effort into selling foot
pedals on the belief that you're increasing kitchen hygiene.

Sure there is a point in selling hygiene.

To compare the average kitchen sink area to that of a surgical scub sink
is absurd.

Not so much. Think about chicken preparation.

Even if one of Delta's selling points for a touch-control faucet is
hygiene related, I don't put any stock in it.

You may not, but their market may. That's the whole point of
marketing (I did note the H1N1 *paranoia*).