My wife and I had a house built in a new development which was on a
culdesac a couple years ago. It was nice and quiet, we took months to
find and pick the perfect spot. The builder was going to continue
building in the development but this was to stay a culdesac. He bailed
out right after we bought and sold off the land. The new builder's are
adding a street right next to our house.

This means now we lose all of our side property as it becomes an
easement. We can't put up a fence due to zoning laws on corner houses
here. Also some have said our taxes will increase being a corner lot!


We are getting ready for our first born and wouldn't have bought a
corner lot with a lot of traffic. We also were getting ready to put up
the backyard fence and now find we can't. I feel betrayed. I don't
think there's anything i can do outside of selling, but wanted to know
for sure.

"69strat" writes:
My wife and I had a house built in a new development which was on a
culdesac a couple years ago. It was nice and quiet, we took months to
find and pick the perfect spot. The builder was going to continue
building in the development but this was to stay a culdesac.

Oy. That sucks. Do you have anything in writing to that effect?

He bailed out right after we bought and sold off the land. The new
builder's are adding a street right next to our house.

This means now we lose all of our side property as it becomes an
easement. We can't put up a fence due to zoning laws on corner houses
here. Also some have said our taxes will increase being a corner
lot!

We are getting ready for our first born and wouldn't have bought a
corner lot with a lot of traffic. We also were getting ready to put up
the backyard fence and now find we can't. I feel betrayed. I don't
think there's anything i can do outside of selling, but wanted to know
for sure.

You have a legitimate gripe. I'd take it up locally with whatever
body rules on zoning. Perhaps you can get at least a variance to
allow you to erect some sort of fence to contain you progreny.
Otherwise, a move is the only likely recourse. A consultation with a
lawyer wise in real estate _litigation_ (as opposed to your garden
variety real estate attorney, but one of those might be able to help
too) might be money well spent too, to further assess your situation
and see what options might be available.

Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

Before a builder can put in a new street like that, he has to get
approval from the municipality. Were you informed of this before it was
granted? As it affects your property, in most areas, to get this type
of approval requires notifying nearby properties so that they are
informed and can voice their opinions. I would think that you would
most certainly have to notified if you are losing your side yard to an
easement. Wha't the easement for? Sidewalk and room on the side of
the new street?

If the builder didn't follow the correct procedure, then you would be
in a good position to challenge it. If they did it correctly, you're
not in a very good position at this point. I'd consult an attorney
that has done real estate work in that town, ie representing clients
before planning boards, zoning boards, etc.

In article . com,
"69strat" wrote:

My wife and I had a house built in a new development which was on a
culdesac a couple years ago. It was nice and quiet, we took months to
find and pick the perfect spot. The builder was going to continue
building in the development but this was to stay a culdesac. He bailed
out right after we bought and sold off the land. The new builder's are
adding a street right next to our house.

What does your lawyer say about this?


This means now we lose all of our side property as it becomes an
easement.

Not unless you previously agreed to that or sold the rights to the new
owners.

We can't put up a fence due to zoning laws on corner houses
here. Also some have said our taxes will increase being a corner lot!


We are getting ready for our first born and wouldn't have bought a
corner lot with a lot of traffic. We also were getting ready to put up
the backyard fence and now find we can't. I feel betrayed. I don't
think there's anything i can do outside of selling, but wanted to know
for sure.

What does your lawyer say about this?

"69strat" wrote:

My wife and I had a house built in a new development which was on a
culdesac a couple years ago. It was nice and quiet, we took months to
find and pick the perfect spot. The builder was going to continue
building in the development but this was to stay a culdesac. He bailed
out right after we bought and sold off the land. The new builder's are
adding a street right next to our house.

This means now we lose all of our side property as it becomes an
easement. We can't put up a fence due to zoning laws on corner houses
here. Also some have said our taxes will increase being a corner lot!


We are getting ready for our first born and wouldn't have bought a
corner lot with a lot of traffic. We also were getting ready to put up
the backyard fence and now find we can't. I feel betrayed. I don't
think there's anything i can do outside of selling, but wanted to know
for sure.


Sorry, somethings not right with this.

In most areas of the US, streets & subdivisions are platted long before the
first foundation or curb gets put in. Changing that plat requires the permission
of the appropriate authority, which in turn usual means hearings and
notifications to the propery owners affected within a certain distance.

If you bought into a private subdivision, have you significantly less protection
from changes, but there should still be some sort of planning approval process
followed.

Did you review the official property plat before you purchased the house? Note
that builder marketing material does not constitute a binding document.

Second, have you checked with your municipality planning department and see if
all the proper procedures were followed for changing the plat?

Thanks for the ideas and help everyone. I have not contacted a lawyer
yet. This is our first house and well, not sure about all this.

I contacted the zoning dept. and he said "you surely had to know about
this when you bought the house". I said we did not and the builder
sold the land. Plans were then changed. Why would the builder pay for
all that extra concrete for the culdesac, if he planned on putting a
through street in.?

I was talking to the builder on some other issues and he confirmed that
this was supposed to remain a culdesac.

The easement is for sidewalk and "aesthetics" according to the zoning
official. We were not informed of any of this. We just woke up one
morning and see them digging next to us and in our front yard!

We have electrical/phone/cable box all on the property line that was
next to the field as there was no house on this side. Every house in
here shares that with another house. Originally another house was
suppose to go next to us and share the utilites boxes on the lot.
There is no house in this development that has all the utlities on the
corner lot!

Besides the culdesac this is also showing that there originally was no
designs for a street here.

"Thanks for the ideas and help everyone. I have not contacted a lawyer

yet. This is our first house and well, not sure about all this.

I contacted the zoning dept. and he said "you surely had to know about
this when you bought the house". I said we did not and the builder
sold the land. Plans were then changed. Why would the builder pay for

all that extra concrete for the culdesac, if he planned on putting a
through street in.? "

I'd get over to town hall immediately and find out exactly what
happened. I'd be nice about it. Just explain what happened from your
point of view as you outlined aboove and ask them to show you
documents, applications, approvals, permits, etc that show the sequence
of events. It certainly is strange to put in a culdesac and then add a
road. If the builder originally had it planned for a culdesac and did
not follow the correct approval process to add a road, you are in a
good position. In every place I know of, this could not have happened
without notifying people with properties that are close by. Did you
ask neighbors what they know? You may be able to get them to share the
cost of a lawyer. (BTW, if you do that, draw up a simple agreement in
writing to share the cost and get them to sign it).

If the builder did have the new street in the original plans and
marketed the homes on the culdesac as such, without telling you that a
street would be added, I think all of the homeowners on the culdesac,
especially you, have a good case against him for fraud. In any case,
I'd get my ass in gear right now. If the facts are on your side, a
lawyer could get an injunction to halt what they are doing until the
case is heard. That alone is a powerful weapon. The longer it goes on
and the more work that is done, the worse position you are in, at least
as far as having it undone.

I just talked with a lawyer who specializes in real estate, and he said
that unless I have in writing that it was to remain a culdesac, there
is nothing I can do. He went on to say, the original builder sold the
land to someone else and they can do what they want with the property.
The land next to us was unfinished land and were sold off to the new
builders on this culdesac. The house across the culdesac and us are
the only ones on the circle. There was room for two more houses here
on the culdesac.

I feel sick!

"Whoa! Stop right there. It's not YOUR property if they are building
on
it. It may LOOK like yours since there are no physical boundaries. "

If you follow what's happening, they aren't building on his property,
they are putting a street next to his property, and putting a sidewalk
and utility boxes on his property. It's not unusual for towns to have
easements for sidewalks and/or right of ways on some pieces of property
for things like expansion of a roadway. Technically, the property
owner does in fact own it. I own the land that the utility boxes sit
on in front of my house. But the town can come along and use it for
sidewalks, etc whenever they please. It sounds like somthing similar
happened here. What's not clear is if this was all in the original
site plans and deed when he bought it.

"69strat" writes:
I just talked with a lawyer who specializes in real estate, and he said
that unless I have in writing that it was to remain a culdesac, there
is nothing I can do. He went on to say, the original builder sold the
land to someone else and they can do what they want with the
property.

While that is generally true (and certainly the easiest and least-work
thing for the attorney to say) there are possibly other avenues to at
least getting a fence up, or working with the local process.

The land next to us was unfinished land and were sold off to the new
builders on this culdesac.

Hopefully you weren't under the mistaken assumption that this land
would remain vacant forever though.

The house across the culdesac and us are the only ones on the
circle. There was room for two more houses here on the culdesac.

I feel sick!

That blow. I feel bad for ya.

I might be getting that thing on the market pronto and seeing if you
can find a buyer, or planning to dig in and wait it out, and see what
you can do in fighting city hall as it were. But, in general, if you
don't own it, you can't control it, and if it's not in writing, all
bets are off. :-\

Good luck!

Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

"I know that. However, if you didn't snip what I replied to, you'd see
that
he said it was his property. "

I didn't take anything out of context. In fact you;ve just clearly
stated it again above. It can be HIS property and the town can put
utilities, sidewalk, etc on it even though he owns it and pays taxes on
it. It is in fact still his property.

I should've worded it better guys. What I mean is that our side lot is
pretty big and we lose access to doing anything with it because it
becomes an easement according to the zoning official. I didn't mean
they are actually building on my property.

I did find some other stuff out. On the appraisal report when we
bought it states "culdesac" on there. Also I called the engineering
dept. and they found plans where a revision of this land where the
street is going was made. It was made in Jan '03. We signed our
mortage in spring of '02!

I'm talking to my lawyer again tomorrow.

Around here, corner lots are not in demand. You lose more freedoms and
you have to pay higher taxes. I haven't found out how much, but I
don't want any increase as they are already very high.

"69strat" wrote:

I did find some other stuff out. On the appraisal report when we
bought it states "culdesac" on there. Also I called the engineering
dept. and they found plans where a revision of this land where the
street is going was made. It was made in Jan '03. We signed our
mortage in spring of '02!


The appraisal report won't help you any, no matter what it says. That report was
for the benefit of the mortgage company. And as you say below, the plat change
occured after you bough the house.

OTOH, depending on the local law if you weren't notified of the plat change,
that could be grounds for a suit against the city.

Your lawyer should be able to tell you if the notice the city probably ran in
the classifieds was sufficient to protect them.

I'm talking to my lawyer again tomorrow.


Good move. Please continue to post updates.

Around here, corner lots are not in demand. You lose more freedoms and
you have to pay higher taxes. I haven't found out how much, but I
don't want any increase as they are already very high.

That's been my experience as well. Its difficult to see how your taxes would be
affected as your property value is unlikely to increase, absent any special
assessment districts based on road frontage. OTOH, you lose a portion of your
back yard and typically will see more traffic by your house.

Having two addresses is the way it goes up. That's how it was
explained to me. I don't want two of them! Also paying for upkeep up
two streets instead of one.

What I'm thinking is we bought in '02 and the plat was revised in '03
without our being informed.

I'm just saying it the way the zoning guy told me, Mike. That now,
part of our side property cannot be built on or can't do anything with
as they are allowed to have access to it. That ****es me off.

There are stakes in the ground exactly where my property line is. Well,
once the street is in, I can only build 20' from the property line. I
can no longer have full use of my land.

I bought "X" amount of land and now they are in a sense taking part of
it away as now my rights on how to use it our greatly diminished.

But I still have to mow it, plus the tree lawn they are going to put
down. With gas pricing, I don't want to mow more grass!

69strat wrote:
I should've worded it better guys. What I mean is that our side lot is
pretty big and we lose access to doing anything with it because it
becomes an easement according to the zoning official. I didn't mean
they are actually building on my property.

"Becomes an easment" sounds odd to me, but perhaps this is just
a matter of phrasing. I could understand if someone else (city
or property owner) was given an easment right in your title, but
just now decided to exercise it. Or, I suppose the city could
take an easment right by some kind of eminent domain process
(which I suppose amounts to it having that right beforehand.)
But I don't understand how something "becomes" an easement.
I understand "easement" to mean some kind of right over
a piece of your property that you grant, for some consideration,
to someone else. Just for my curiosity, it would be interesting
if the OP or someone else could explain.

Regards,

--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=
Mike Lacy, Ft Collins CO 80523
Clean out the 'junk' to email me.

69strat wrote:
Thanks for the ideas and help everyone. I have not contacted a lawyer
yet. This is our first house and well, not sure about all this.

I contacted the zoning dept. and he said "you surely had to know about
this when you bought the house". I said we did not and the builder
sold the land. Plans were then changed. Why would the builder pay for
all that extra concrete for the culdesac, if he planned on putting a
through street in.?

I was talking to the builder on some other issues and he confirmed that
this was supposed to remain a culdesac.


The builder does not decide how the land is laid out, the municipality
does. he cant change anything. He must ask for a change from the
municipality. They in turn will likely send out letters indicating a
hearing data, etc..

This has happened to me in some form. The company on one end of my
neighborhood has bought up land and got the city to rezone it so they
can put a road there. This allows them to dump their traffic onto a
side streed as opposed to the main street. it saves them a bit of land
i guess. Sucks for those with houses there. But they did buy some of
those houes. And there were letters and a hearing.

If there is a hearing you should go fully prepared with before and after
pictures and everything you can gather. Cities can sometimes support
developers over residents.

--
Respectfully,


CL Gilbert

The lawyer still thinks it's not enough. he also says he doesn't think
the tax will go up, but that he's not an expert on that.

But he said "it sucks, but you're just screwed on this" made me feel
real good!!

I'll have to do like you say and call the tax official.

"There are stakes in the ground exactly where my property line is.
Well,
once the street is in, I can only build 20' from the property line. I
can no longer have full use of my land. "

If it makes you feel any better, you probably couldn't have built there
anyway. Almost everyplace has sideyard reqts that are somewhere around
that wide anyway.

On your overall problem, I'd gather all the info from the town
regarding the sequence of events in the approval process for the new
street. Particularly why you were not notified of the proposed
addition of a street next to your property before approval was granted.
In every case I've seen of major changes like this, property owners
within a certain radius must be notified BEFORE any such change. Then
I'd go find another lawyer and get a second opinion.

wrote in news:1124971887.150243.234960
@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

It certainly is strange to put in a culdesac and then add a
road. If the builder originally had it planned for a culdesac and did
not follow the correct approval process to add a road, you are in a
good position.

Not as strange as you might think. Our property was a culdesac as
originally platted; the township came back and asked that a right-of-way be
added but not built, and that the CDS be pushed towards the edge of the
property more.

My lot line abuts another parcel and if we didn't do that, they'd
effectively be locked with no way to develop it should the owners decide to
do it. (Which they haven't, and in conversations with them, they won't -
but you know that verbal assurances aren't worth the paper they're printed
on.

Turned my 1.25 acre property into a 1.15 acre property, but it wasn't
approved yet so I didn't have much recourse even if I wanted to fight it.
Which I don't.

--
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens.

It looks like nothing can be done about the street being added
according to the lawyers and city officials. They had these plans
since '99. We bought our house on this culdesac in '02 and were not
told about a street going next to us.

Anyhow this just keeps getting worse. Since they started digging for
the street, I've been getting a lot more water in my basement. It
floods when it rains and my sump pump cannot keep up. I've had
everything checked out, snaked etc. The city did a test on my sump
water making sure that chlorine is not in it (thinking they may have
hit a line somewhere). We can't figure out where all this extra water
is coming from.

Now, recently they actually built the road up and poured it. They
really did a number here on us. They built it up very high (about 3.5'
higher than my land) and my back and side yard, that runs adjacent to
the road, now is very low and sunk in. the ground from the street
slopes down steep to my yard. It rained Saturday, and my backyard was
a lake, even though there is a yard drain there, it was clogged with
mud and way to small to keep up with all the new water.

I'm ****ed as this keeps getting worse. I talked to the builder and he
said he'd put a larger yard drain in for me. I don't want that. I want
him to build up my land, but the problem is, then that will be higher
than my house and water will come towards the house!!!

"69strat" writes:

It looks like nothing can be done about the street being added
according to the lawyers and city officials. They had these plans
since '99. We bought our house on this culdesac in '02 and were not
told about a street going next to us.

Ouch. Man, makes me wonder how much **** you need to check about the
area before making purchase anywhere. Yeah, legally no one would
really have to tell you actively about those plans.

Curious now... where would these plans have been registered? County?
City?

I'm ****ed as this keeps getting worse. I talked to the builder and he
said he'd put a larger yard drain in for me. I don't want that. I want
him to build up my land, but the problem is, then that will be higher
than my house and water will come towards the house!!!

Yeah, negative slope toward the house when you already have a drainage
issue would be a very bad thing. When you go to sell the inspectors
will flag that in a heartbeat and make your house even harder to sell.
I might reconsider the larger yard drain. Anything that gets more
water the heck away from your house should be what you want.

Sounds like you're at least hooked up with the folks who can help you
with this now though. Keeping at them and working with the builder
while they're around is about all you'll be able to do. It sucks
that you were had on the whole culdesac deal though. It's not
something I'd have known to check out either. :-\

Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

Yeah Todd, I am gonna have the larger drain put in, but that's not
enough imo. Putting a larger "mouth" on the same pipe is not going to
help all that much. They aren't going to dig up and re-pipe my whole
drain system through my yard. It runs all the way through to under my
driveway!

The builder seems like he is willing to work with me a bit. I want
something done with the landscaping (slope from the road) to direct the
water away from my land/house. But I don't know how at this point as
it's all sloped towards my house. I had read that there is an
ordinance that a property owner cannot make the adjacent property
higher because each land has to retain it's own natural water
accumulation. I don't know how this applies when there is an easement
or road next to you. that's my next investigation.