Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems.

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Old May 12th 18, 01:34 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,sci.electronics.repair
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Default Folded phone line can mess up DSL.

The networking ng is dormant so I thought I'd report this here.

Folded phone line can mess up DSL.


I think a couple years ago when I had 100 feet of phone line but was
only using 40 feet, but wanted to save the whole 100' in one piec, I had
40 feet played out and 60 feet rolled on the spool, and I asked here or
somewhere else if that could cause a slow DSL connection. And iirc the
answer was no, but I'm not sure of that.

So a couple months ago I finally finish installing my home burglar alarm
and I want to connect it to the monitoring company via the phone line.
Since my main phone connection goes in via the second floor, to the
computer on the 2nd floor, I go to the NIC and put a Y connector in it,
adding back the original wire to the basement. Somewhere I have a 6"
piece of phone wire with modular plugs on the end, but I can't find it,
so I put in one of the cords that comes with most phone devices, maybe 8
feet folded up, maybe 6 circle's-worth, squeezed flat.

This is some time between Thursday and Saturday, and Sunday morning I
leave for two months.

I got back two weeks ago today and the house and car were just the way I
left them, and the computer worked fine. For 3 or 4 days. Then it
stopped loading webpages, except very intermittently (so little as to be
unusable), loaded email and newsgrooups only 20% or 30% of the time.
People told me to call Verizon, as if I hadn't thought of that. But
they charge about $60 if it's not their fault, and anyhow, the point is
to figure it out on my own.

Check the NIC. It's popped open. It's under a roof but maybe it got
wet. Doesn't look wet. After a couple days with no better ideas, I
decide to unplug things in the NIC to give them a chance to dry, and
only then I notice the folded phone cord (with the Y-connector). Take
it out, and everything works fine again.

But how come it worked fine for the first 3 or 4 days I was back? And
at least 12 hours, maybe 2 days, before I left?

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Old May 12th 18, 02:41 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,sci.electronics.repair
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Default Folded phone line can mess up DSL.

In article ,
says...
I go to the NIC and put a Y connector in it,

Are there DSL isolators in line where they should be? I
couldn't tell from your post.

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Old May 12th 18, 02:46 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,sci.electronics.repair
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Default Folded phone line can mess up DSL.

Micky,
I am not going to answer your question as to why. Don't know.
However, with you alarm system connection you need to place
the alarm dialer as the first thing on your phone line from the NIC.
This is done with a RJ31X block properly installed.
Also, depending on your specific use of DSL Filters the line
to the alarm dialer needs to be a DSL Filtered line. Otherwise
the communication can be compromised. Twisted pair cable is most desirable.

Good luck.

Les


On 5/11/2018 8:34 PM, micky wrote:
The networking ng is dormant so I thought I'd report this here.

Folded phone line can mess up DSL.


I think a couple years ago when I had 100 feet of phone line but was
only using 40 feet, but wanted to save the whole 100' in one piec, I had
40 feet played out and 60 feet rolled on the spool, and I asked here or
somewhere else if that could cause a slow DSL connection. And iirc the
answer was no, but I'm not sure of that.

So a couple months ago I finally finish installing my home burglar alarm
and I want to connect it to the monitoring company via the phone line.
Since my main phone connection goes in via the second floor, to the
computer on the 2nd floor, I go to the NIC and put a Y connector in it,
adding back the original wire to the basement. Somewhere I have a 6"
piece of phone wire with modular plugs on the end, but I can't find it,
so I put in one of the cords that comes with most phone devices, maybe 8
feet folded up, maybe 6 circle's-worth, squeezed flat.

This is some time between Thursday and Saturday, and Sunday morning I
leave for two months.

I got back two weeks ago today and the house and car were just the way I
left them, and the computer worked fine. For 3 or 4 days. Then it
stopped loading webpages, except very intermittently (so little as to be
unusable), loaded email and newsgrooups only 20% or 30% of the time.
People told me to call Verizon, as if I hadn't thought of that. But
they charge about $60 if it's not their fault, and anyhow, the point is
to figure it out on my own.

Check the NIC. It's popped open. It's under a roof but maybe it got
wet. Doesn't look wet. After a couple days with no better ideas, I
decide to unplug things in the NIC to give them a chance to dry, and
only then I notice the folded phone cord (with the Y-connector). Take
it out, and everything works fine again.

But how come it worked fine for the first 3 or 4 days I was back? And
at least 12 hours, maybe 2 days, before I left?


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Old May 12th 18, 03:50 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,sci.electronics.repair
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: May 2018
Posts: 3
Default Folded phone line can mess up DSL.

On Fri, 11 May 2018 20:34:49 -0400, micky
wrote:

The networking ng is dormant so I thought I'd report this here.

Folded phone line can mess up DSL.


I think a couple years ago when I had 100 feet of phone line but was
only using 40 feet, but wanted to save the whole 100' in one piec, I had
40 feet played out and 60 feet rolled on the spool, and I asked here or
somewhere else if that could cause a slow DSL connection. And iirc the
answer was no, but I'm not sure of that.

So a couple months ago I finally finish installing my home burglar alarm
and I want to connect it to the monitoring company via the phone line.
Since my main phone connection goes in via the second floor, to the
computer on the 2nd floor, I go to the NIC and put a Y connector in it,
adding back the original wire to the basement. Somewhere I have a 6"
piece of phone wire with modular plugs on the end, but I can't find it,
so I put in one of the cords that comes with most phone devices, maybe 8
feet folded up, maybe 6 circle's-worth, squeezed flat.

This is some time between Thursday and Saturday, and Sunday morning I
leave for two months.

I got back two weeks ago today and the house and car were just the way I
left them, and the computer worked fine. For 3 or 4 days. Then it
stopped loading webpages, except very intermittently (so little as to be
unusable), loaded email and newsgrooups only 20% or 30% of the time.
People told me to call Verizon, as if I hadn't thought of that. But
they charge about $60 if it's not their fault, and anyhow, the point is
to figure it out on my own.

Check the NIC. It's popped open. It's under a roof but maybe it got
wet. Doesn't look wet. After a couple days with no better ideas, I
decide to unplug things in the NIC to give them a chance to dry, and
only then I notice the folded phone cord (with the Y-connector). Take
it out, and everything works fine again.

But how come it worked fine for the first 3 or 4 days I was back? And
at least 12 hours, maybe 2 days, before I left?


On similar lines I was using a network cable that was way
longer than needed and the excess was coiled up.
At 1 gigabit packet loss was around 50%.
I replaced it with a much shorter cable and no packet loss.
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Old May 12th 18, 03:53 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,sci.electronics.repair
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Posts: 3
Default Folded phone line can mess up DSL.

On Fri, 11 May 2018 21:46:29 -0400, ABLE1
wrote:

Micky,
I am not going to answer your question as to why. Don't know.
However, with you alarm system connection you need to place
the alarm dialer as the first thing on your phone line from the NIC.
This is done with a RJ31X block properly installed.
Also, depending on your specific use of DSL Filters the line
to the alarm dialer needs to be a DSL Filtered line. Otherwise
the communication can be compromised. Twisted pair cable is most desirable.

Good luck.

Les


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet_quoting

On 5/11/2018 8:34 PM, micky wrote:
The networking ng is dormant so I thought I'd report this here.

Folded phone line can mess up DSL.


I think a couple years ago when I had 100 feet of phone line but was
only using 40 feet, but wanted to save the whole 100' in one piec, I had
40 feet played out and 60 feet rolled on the spool, and I asked here or
somewhere else if that could cause a slow DSL connection. And iirc the
answer was no, but I'm not sure of that.

So a couple months ago I finally finish installing my home burglar alarm
and I want to connect it to the monitoring company via the phone line.
Since my main phone connection goes in via the second floor, to the
computer on the 2nd floor, I go to the NIC and put a Y connector in it,
adding back the original wire to the basement. Somewhere I have a 6"
piece of phone wire with modular plugs on the end, but I can't find it,
so I put in one of the cords that comes with most phone devices, maybe 8
feet folded up, maybe 6 circle's-worth, squeezed flat.

This is some time between Thursday and Saturday, and Sunday morning I
leave for two months.

I got back two weeks ago today and the house and car were just the way I
left them, and the computer worked fine. For 3 or 4 days. Then it
stopped loading webpages, except very intermittently (so little as to be
unusable), loaded email and newsgrooups only 20% or 30% of the time.
People told me to call Verizon, as if I hadn't thought of that. But
they charge about $60 if it's not their fault, and anyhow, the point is
to figure it out on my own.

Check the NIC. It's popped open. It's under a roof but maybe it got
wet. Doesn't look wet. After a couple days with no better ideas, I
decide to unplug things in the NIC to give them a chance to dry, and
only then I notice the folded phone cord (with the Y-connector). Take
it out, and everything works fine again.

But how come it worked fine for the first 3 or 4 days I was back? And
at least 12 hours, maybe 2 days, before I left?



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Old May 12th 18, 06:30 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,sci.electronics.repair
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Mar 2018
Posts: 6
Default Folded phone line can mess up DSL.

Lucifer Morningstar wrote in
:


On similar lines I was using a network cable that was way
longer than needed and the excess was coiled up.
At 1 gigabit packet loss was around 50%.
I replaced it with a much shorter cable and no packet loss.

That one is easy. Gigabit eathernet is very sensitive to interference.
Having the wires coiled like that very likely degraded the line electrical
characteristics to the point that you were getting a lot of lost/error
packets. CAT5/CAT6 is very sensitive to proper conditions for transmission
and reception. It doesn't take much to degrade a packet to the point that
it is not decipherable at the other end.
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Old May 12th 18, 07:44 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,sci.electronics.repair
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Sep 2016
Posts: 17
Default Folded phone line can mess up DSL.

ABLE1 wrote:
Micky,
I am not going to answer your question as to why. Don't know.
However, with you alarm system connection you need to place
the alarm dialer as the first thing on your phone line from the NIC.
This is done with a RJ31X block properly installed.
Also, depending on your specific use of DSL Filters the line
to the alarm dialer needs to be a DSL Filtered line. Otherwise
the communication can be compromised. Twisted pair cable is most
desirable.

Good luck.

Les


Where I live, they have two practices for ADSL.

The ADSL original setup, they handed out filters
per phone jack in the house. So they would put
four filters in their "kit", as back then the
modem was a rental. This was back in the days
of "no truck roll" installs.

When ADSL2 rolled out, they started using a
tiny whole-house filter, installed at the demarc.
What's supposed to happen in that case, is the
"existing" house phone wiring, is put on the
filtered port. (And the alarm dialer could go
on that network of wires.) Whereas the customer can
run a cable to the ADSL (unfiltered) port on the
filter, to make the ADSL2 modem work properly.
The filter box was pretty small, and only
2x3 inches or so.

Paul
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Old May 12th 18, 07:22 PM posted to sci.electronics.repair
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Posts: 136
Default Folded phone line can mess up DSL.

There is a minimum bend radius of at least 1" for CAT5. See

*https://www.cablinginstall.com/artic...nd-radius.html
https://www.cablinginstall.com/articles/print/volume-6/issue-6/contents/standards/the-case-for-a-2-inch-cable-bend-radius.html*
Silver Satin cables are bad news. I don't know if that's the type of cable
your using. The wires are all parallel and not twisted.

My house has many phone locations, more than 8, and not home run. Nearly
everything is wired with quad wire. This won;t support DSL filters,

So, the best way to handle it was to install a DSL splitter at the NID.

When I upgraded from WIFI based dial-up to DSL, I did things right. The
NID to DSL port is only about 4 foot long. Then i found a 5' length of
CAT4/CAT5 6P4S straight-thru cables that run to teh DSL modem. Now that
distance is short.

Then I ran the LAN port via power line Ethernet to the center of the
basement where it should be. The AP (Wireless) should really be centrally
located which it is.

Later, that power line Ethernet connection was upgraded to wired. It also
broke.

The telco guy said that I had pristine DSL. During one of the service
calls, the guy brought back a 12" piece of cable where the insulation was
eaten. He also said he removed 1000' of length of cable.

There is no way I could have this pristine DSL if it wasn't done right from
the beginning.

I do have some upgrade plans, but they have not been implemented yet..

One thing I must have is the ability to easily switch out a stand-alone
modem to wired `Ethernet for the normal one in Bridge mode.
I will eventually be able to do this with a push of a few buttons. Anytime
trouble shooting needs to be done, I have to eliminate nearly everything at
my end.
The older modems have better trouble-shooting information.

Then I started the "structured wiring" panels. They are mounted, but not
connected. Some locations have low voltage plates, but unconnected too.
Everything will be CAT6 RJ45's. If the jacks are telco, they will be
reduced to 6 pin jacks using sleeves.

I want to install a 24 port POE switch as well which I also have.
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Old May 13th 18, 04:22 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,sci.electronics.repair
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Default Folded phone line can mess up DSL.

In article [email protected]
69.16.179.28, says...
Having the wires coiled like that very likely degraded the line electrical
characteristics to the point that you were getting a lot of lost/error
packets.


Why? Twisted pairs are resistant to interference.
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Old May 13th 18, 05:34 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,sci.electronics.repair
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Posts: 19
Default Folded phone line can mess up DSL.

On 5/12/2018 8:22 PM, Jason wrote:
In article [email protected]
69.16.179.28, says...
Having the wires coiled like that very likely degraded the line electrical
characteristics to the point that you were getting a lot of lost/error
packets.


Why? Twisted pairs are resistant to interference.


Absolutely, the twisted repairs counteract interference, and each pair
is twisted at a slightly different rate to reduce crosstalk between the
pairs. Here's a simple summary.

https://www.quora.com/How-does-twist...ween-the-wires



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