I've been thinking of getting DSL. EMBARQ offers what at first glance
seems like a decent deal 19.95/mo but looking at the "fine print" I'm
a bit put off.

-$99 "early termination fee". - So, if you decide the service stinks
and find a better provider, you're obliged to pay them for
approximately the equivalent of 5 months of service to get out of it.
They don't specify what "early" means as far as earlier than what.

But...

-EMBARQ may cancel services or susbstitute similar services at its
sole discretion without notice - How the hell about that. Are they
gonna pay me a $99 early termination fee?

-No minimum level of speed is guaranteed. - How cutting-edge of them
to buck the trend of "quality assurance". And if you decide the
product is no good, not only do you not get a refund, as per above
you're obligated to pay them for months of crappy service you never
received.

-Taxes, fees and surcharges are additional, subject to change without
notice and BASED ON NON-PROMOTIONAL, STANDARD MONTHLY RATE. - So,
they're going to play "let's pretend" and tax you on more than you're
paying.

-Additonal restrictions apply - Well, I'm sure that can only be good
news.

Oh, and they charge 14.95 to ship a modem and a $15 activation fee.

Is this all "normal" as far as such services? Anyone here using
EMBARQ? Thoughts?

Any providers out there that don't have all these kinds of caveats?

Doc wrote:
I've been thinking of getting DSL. EMBARQ offers what at first glance
seems like a decent deal 19.95/mo but looking at the "fine print" I'm
a bit put off.

-$99 "early termination fee". - So, if you decide the service stinks
and find a better provider, you're obliged to pay them for
approximately the equivalent of 5 months of service to get out of it.
They don't specify what "early" means as far as earlier than what.


It is pretty typical to have a 30 day no questions asked return policy
for DSL. Look for language telling you how long you can "date" before
you become married to them.

But...

-EMBARQ may cancel services or susbstitute similar services at its
sole discretion without notice - How the hell about that. Are they
gonna pay me a $99 early termination fee?

Of course not. Megacorps (especially communications companies, love
unilateral terms)


-No minimum level of speed is guaranteed. - How cutting-edge of them
to buck the trend of "quality assurance". And if you decide the
product is no good, not only do you not get a refund, as per above
you're obligated to pay them for months of crappy service you never
received.

-Taxes, fees and surcharges are additional, subject to change without
notice and BASED ON NON-PROMOTIONAL, STANDARD MONTHLY RATE. - So,
they're going to play "let's pretend" and tax you on more than you're
paying.

Might be required by the government who is getting the taxes that taxes
by charged at the before discount rate. But you can call and ask them.


-Additonal restrictions apply - Well, I'm sure that can only be good
news.

Oh, and they charge 14.95 to ship a modem and a $15 activation fee.

Is this all "normal" as far as such services? Anyone here using
EMBARQ? Thoughts?

Any providers out there that don't have all these kinds of caveats?

Doc wrote:
I've been thinking of getting DSL. EMBARQ offers what at first glance
seems like a decent deal 19.95/mo but looking at the "fine print" I'm
a bit put off.

-$99 "early termination fee". - So, if you decide the service stinks
and find a better provider, you're obliged to pay them for
approximately the equivalent of 5 months of service to get out of it.
They don't specify what "early" means as far as earlier than what.

But...

-EMBARQ may cancel services or susbstitute similar services at its
sole discretion without notice - How the hell about that. Are they
gonna pay me a $99 early termination fee?

-No minimum level of speed is guaranteed. - How cutting-edge of them
to buck the trend of "quality assurance". And if you decide the
product is no good, not only do you not get a refund, as per above
you're obligated to pay them for months of crappy service you never
received.

-Taxes, fees and surcharges are additional, subject to change without
notice and BASED ON NON-PROMOTIONAL, STANDARD MONTHLY RATE. - So,
they're going to play "let's pretend" and tax you on more than you're
paying.

-Additonal restrictions apply - Well, I'm sure that can only be good
news.

Oh, and they charge 14.95 to ship a modem and a $15 activation fee.

Is this all "normal" as far as such services? Anyone here using
EMBARQ? Thoughts?

Any providers out there that don't have all these kinds of caveats?

If smells bad don't eat it IF YOU HAVE A CHOICE.

AFAIK That price is for 768 or so speed.

As far as how good they are? Ask neighbors because it varies by area.

EMBARQ is pretty poorly rated for a good reason.

Lou

Doc wrote:

I've been thinking of getting DSL. EMBARQ offers what at first glance seems
like a decent deal 19.95/mo but looking at the "fine print" I'm a bit put off.

Its not the fine print thats the problem, what matters is whether they deliver a decent service.

-$99 "early termination fee". - So, if you decide the service
stinks and find a better provider, you're obliged to pay them for
approximately the equivalent of 5 months of service to get out of it.

Not if they cant deliver a viable service.

They don't specify what "early" means as far as earlier than what.

Earlier than the initial term you sign up for.

But...

-EMBARQ may cancel services or susbstitute similar services
at its sole discretion without notice - How the hell about that.

Thats just some damned lawyer's way of trying to bluff the stupids.

Are they gonna pay me a $99 early termination fee?

Nope. But you dont have to pay them if they cant deliver what you signed up for, legally.

-No minimum level of speed is guaranteed. - How cutting-edge of them
to buck the trend of "quality assurance". And if you decide the product
is no good, not only do you not get a refund, as per above you're
obligated to pay them for months of crappy service you never received.

No you arent if they cant deliver what you signed up for.

-Taxes, fees and surcharges are additional, subject to change without notice
and BASED ON NON-PROMOTIONAL, STANDARD MONTHLY RATE. - So,
they're going to play "let's pretend" and tax you on more than you're paying.

If you dont like that, dont sign up.

-Additonal restrictions apply - Well, I'm sure that can only be good news.

Oh, and they charge 14.95 to ship a modem and a $15 activation fee.

Is this all "normal" as far as such services?

Its not uncommon for the low priced services.

Anyone here using EMBARQ? Thoughts?

Any providers out there that don't have all these kinds of caveats?

Yep, but not as cheap as that.

Remember, most DSL providers promise "up to" a certain speed which
means you have no recourse when you have slower connections. Mine
promise "up to" 3.0 but I rarely get above 2.1 which is fine for my
needs. Might not be as good if I did a lot of downloading.

In article
,
Doc wrote:

I've been thinking of getting DSL.

Even the crappiest DSL beats the hell out of dial-up.

EMBARQ offers what at first glance seems like a decent deal 19.95/mo
but looking at the "fine print" I'm a bit put off.

You're not supposed to read the fine print.

-$99 "early termination fee". - So, if you decide the service stinks
and find a better provider, you're obliged to pay them for
approximately the equivalent of 5 months of service to get out of it.

Yep. It's what you (will have) signed-up for.

They don't specify what "early" means as far as earlier than what.

It will probably be specified in more fine print on whatever it is they have
you sign, if anything.

-EMBARQ may cancel services or susbstitute similar services at its
sole discretion without notice - How the hell about that.

They've been in the provider business longer than you. They know that, in
order to cover their @$$, they have to state that stuff.

Are they gonna pay me a $99 early termination fee?

Why should they? You're the one that (will have) signed such a contract. I
doubt they would sign one should you pay YOUR lawyer to draw-up a contract for
THEM to sign.

-No minimum level of speed is guaranteed. - How cutting-edge of them
to buck the trend of "quality assurance".

This is a common caveat that dates back to the early days of EPA fuel economy
ratings: Your mileage may vary.

Actual "high-speed" internet speeds are affected by the distance you are from
your server, the load on the particular server to which you are connected, the
quality of the physical line(s) over which the signal is passed, your
operating system, the condition of your equipment (virus-protected or
absolutely LOUSY with viruses) and whether Jupiter aligns with Mars.

And if you decide the product is no good, not only do you not get
a refund, as per above you're obligated to pay them for months of
crappy service you never received.

That's right. If you don't wish to take the chance, don't sign a contract.
Instead, sign-up for their "regular" service with no early termination penalty
and pay the higher monthly rate from the start.

-Taxes, fees and surcharges are additional, subject to change without
notice and BASED ON NON-PROMOTIONAL, STANDARD MONTHLY RATE. - So,
they're going to play "let's pretend" and tax you on more than you're
paying.

You're learning.

-Additonal restrictions apply - Well, I'm sure that can only be good
news.

That covers virtually anything they might have overlooked previously.

Oh, and they charge 14.95 to ship a modem and a $15 activation fee.

Did you REALLY think you would get away with a REAL $19.95/month deal? You
obviously haven't been paying attention to wireless phone, Cable TV and other,
such promotions. They're all similar.

Is this all "normal" as far as such services?

Yes.

Anyone here using EMBARQ?

Not I, said the duck. What is the name of your local, "incumbent" telephone
service provider (telephone company)? What is the size of the city in which
you live. If you live in a rural area, your options for high-speed internet
service are probably very limited if available at all.

Any providers out there that don't have all these kinds of caveats?

Not if they are selling a PROMOTIONAL item. They all have virtually the same
restrictions and caveats. Good luck.

There's no such thing as a free lunch.
--

JR

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
Doc wrote:

I've been thinking of getting DSL. EMBARQ offers what at first glance
seems
like a decent deal 19.95/mo but looking at the "fine print" I'm a bit put
off.

Its not the fine print thats the problem, what matters is whether they
deliver a decent service.

-$99 "early termination fee". - So, if you decide the service
stinks and find a better provider, you're obliged to pay them for
approximately the equivalent of 5 months of service to get out of it.

Not if they cant deliver a viable service.

They don't specify what "early" means as far as earlier than what.

Earlier than the initial term you sign up for.

But...

-EMBARQ may cancel services or susbstitute similar services
at its sole discretion without notice - How the hell about that.

Thats just some damned lawyer's way of trying to bluff the stupids.

Are they gonna pay me a $99 early termination fee?

Nope. But you dont have to pay them if they cant deliver what you signed
up for, legally.

-No minimum level of speed is guaranteed. - How cutting-edge of them
to buck the trend of "quality assurance". And if you decide the product
is no good, not only do you not get a refund, as per above you're
obligated to pay them for months of crappy service you never received.

No you arent if they cant deliver what you signed up for.

-Taxes, fees and surcharges are additional, subject to change without
notice
and BASED ON NON-PROMOTIONAL, STANDARD MONTHLY RATE. - So,
they're going to play "let's pretend" and tax you on more than you're
paying.

If you dont like that, dont sign up.

-Additonal restrictions apply - Well, I'm sure that can only be good
news.

Oh, and they charge 14.95 to ship a modem and a $15 activation fee.

Is this all "normal" as far as such services?

Its not uncommon for the low priced services.

Anyone here using EMBARQ? Thoughts?

Any providers out there that don't have all these kinds of caveats?

Yep, but not as cheap as that.

If you're in the former Bell South service area, AT&T has a nice surprise
for you. I think they took over just a year ago, and part of the deal was
that new DLS customers in many areas could get service at $10/month for 30
months, and you're still in that window.

Keith

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20070618/104023.shtml

buffalobill wrote:
On Feb 25, 6:47 am, Doc wrote:
I've been thinking of getting DSL. EMBARQ offers what at first glance
seems like a decent deal 19.95/mo but looking at the "fine print" I'm
a bit put off.

-$99 "early termination fee". - So, if you decide the service stinks
and find a better provider, you're obliged to pay them for
approximately the equivalent of 5 months of service to get out of it.
They don't specify what "early" means as far as earlier than what.

But...

-EMBARQ may cancel services or susbstitute similar services at its
sole discretion without notice - How the hell about that. Are they
gonna pay me a $99 early termination fee?

-No minimum level of speed is guaranteed. - How cutting-edge of them
to buck the trend of "quality assurance". And if you decide the
product is no good, not only do you not get a refund, as per above
you're obligated to pay them for months of crappy service you never
received.

-Taxes, fees and surcharges are additional, subject to change without
notice and BASED ON NON-PROMOTIONAL, STANDARD MONTHLY RATE. - So,
they're going to play "let's pretend" and tax you on more than you're
paying.

-Additonal restrictions apply - Well, I'm sure that can only be good
news.

Oh, and they charge 14.95 to ship a modem and a $15 activation fee.

Is this all "normal" as far as such services? Anyone here using
EMBARQ? Thoughts?

Any providers out there that don't have all these kinds of caveats?

in buffalo ny look at [cable] time warner's roadrunner LITE is on sale
at 14.95/mo for 12 mos thru march 2008, regular 19.95/month.

AT&T offered me $21.95 a month for "up to" 3.0 if I agreed to a two
year contract and automatic billing. I had to jump through hoops to get
the modem rebate and Visa gift card (the funniest excuse was 4 months
later when they said the delay was because they had to verify my address).
Another poster noted that any DSL is better than dial up. I agree. A
few months afterward my modem got fried and it took a week to get a new
one. I had to use dial up and I had forgotten how s-l-o-w it is.
Keep in mind that if you have a dedicated line for your dial up you
will no longer need it thereby offsetting some of the cost.

Anyone here using EMBARQ? Thoughts?
Had their predecessor, "hometown telephone" then United
Utilities then Sprint then Embarq. Aggregate of many small
companies in the Midwest and Northeast US. In the 60's, UU
was #3 in the US. They were the incumbent and rates were
the highest the market will bear. dialphone 1950, tonedial
1975, adsl 2005

If you're in the former Bell South service area
unlikely

AT&T has a nice surprise.
they always have a surprise, sell for less than they and
their competitors costs. Competitor folds, then the
SURPRISE, the rate increases. This month our local service
increased 5%.

-- larry / dallas

"larry" wrote in message
...

Anyone here using EMBARQ? Thoughts?
Had their predecessor, "hometown telephone" then United Utilities then
Sprint then Embarq. Aggregate of many small companies in the Midwest and
Northeast US. In the 60's, UU was #3 in the US. They were the incumbent
and rates were the highest the market will bear. dialphone 1950, tonedial
1975, adsl 2005

If you're in the former Bell South service area
unlikely

AT&T has a nice surprise.
they always have a surprise, sell for less than they and their competitors
costs. Competitor folds, then the SURPRISE, the rate increases. This
month our local service increased 5%.

It's still dsl for ten bucks a month. There is no real 'cost' to provide
dsl once they've installed digital service. Anything they can charge and
get away with is found money for the company. I was replying to the OP,
not looking for a fight.


-- larry / dallas

"Doc" wrote in message
...
I've been thinking of getting DSL. EMBARQ offers what at first glance
seems like a decent deal 19.95/mo but looking at the "fine print" I'm
a bit put off.

-$99 "early termination fee". - So, if you decide the service stinks
and find a better provider, you're obliged to pay them for
approximately the equivalent of 5 months of service to get out of it.
They don't specify what "early" means as far as earlier than what.

That's the real dealbreaker there.



But...

-EMBARQ may cancel services or susbstitute similar services at its
sole discretion without notice - How the hell about that. Are they
gonna pay me a $99 early termination fee?

-No minimum level of speed is guaranteed.

(snip)

Ummmm, you are shopping for DSL. They have to state that no minimum level
of speed is guaranteed. Speed of DSL is dependent on line length and line
condition. Both are unknown quantities unless you want to pay the phone
company to run a brand new line from the CO to your computer area. (You
don't want to know what that would cost.)
Best the phone company can do is ESTIMATE line length from the CO to your
house, and then give you a rough estimate of what speed your DSL -might- be,
after line is provisioned and modem is installed. To over-simplify, shorter
wire length equals faster connection, assuming that the line condition is
OK.
This is not weasel wording by the phone company. The phone company can not
tell you what speed your connection will be until AFTER DSL is "live" at
your house. Therefore, no minimum level of speed is guaranteed. And yes,
they have to spell that out in writing, just so they won't get sued when
that ultra-reliable 800K connection was advertised as "up to 1.5M" or
something like that, and some ignorant consumer misinterpreted that as a
speed guarantee...
I'm not calling you ignorant, btw. It's just that, if you understood the
technology better, you wouldn't be worried about the phone company stating
that no minimum level of speed is guaranteed. All they are really saying is
"We don't have a crystal ball".

-Taxes, fees and surcharges are additional, subject to change without
notice and BASED ON NON-PROMOTIONAL, STANDARD MONTHLY RATE. - So,
they're going to play "let's pretend" and tax you on more than you're
paying.

No, here they are saying that they are going to jack your rates way up after
a few months. Typical, and another dealbreaker.



-Additonal restrictions apply - Well, I'm sure that can only be good
news.

Oh, and they charge 14.95 to ship a modem and a $15 activation fee.

That's about right. Sometimes DSL providers will run specials where the
equipment charge and activation fee are waived. But $30 total shipped and
activated? That's actually pretty cheap.


Is this all "normal" as far as such services? Anyone here using
EMBARQ? Thoughts?

Any providers out there that don't have all these kinds of caveats?

Based on what you wrote, I would steer clear of embarq. DSL is awesome,
MUCH more reliable than cable. Comparing DSL to cable is not really fair.
Cable can be faster, but DSL is more for people who care about CONSISTENT
connection speed. I've seen the same cable modem connection run faster than
DSL and SLOWER than DSL, in the same day. It totally depends on what your
neighbors are up to. With DSL, it's always fairly fast, and there are no
slowdowns, like right after schools let out for the day and the heavy
downloads begin. Now some moron is going to pipe up and say "but it's all
shared bandwidth". Yup, and with DSL, it is shared at a level where it
doesn't affect YOUR connection. So it's more accurate to say that cable
bandwidth is shared, whereas DSL bandwidth is more or less dedicated to YOUR
line.

If you can get DSL from a good provider without a huge early termination
fee, I'd suggest you try it. But don't expect a speed guarantee upfront,
and DO expect to be much happier with DSL than you will ever be with a cable
modem. Unfortunately, where we live, we can't get DSL, so I'm stuck with
cable modem. -Dave

"Dave" wrote in message
...

"Doc" wrote in message
...
I've been thinking of getting DSL. EMBARQ offers what at first glance
seems like a decent deal 19.95/mo but looking at the "fine print" I'm
a bit put off.

-$99 "early termination fee". - So, if you decide the service stinks
and find a better provider, you're obliged to pay them for
approximately the equivalent of 5 months of service to get out of it.
They don't specify what "early" means as far as earlier than what.

That's the real dealbreaker there.

Do they give you "free" equipment though? That is often what the $99
covers.

On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 00:38:31 GMT, George Grapman
wrote:


[snip]


AT&T offered me $21.95 a month for "up to" 3.0 if I agreed to a two
year contract and automatic billing. I had to jump through hoops to get
the modem rebate and Visa gift card (the funniest excuse was 4 months
later when they said the delay was because they had to verify my address).
Another poster noted that any DSL is better than dial up. I agree. A
few months afterward my modem got fried and it took a week to get a new
one. I had to use dial up and I had forgotten how s-l-o-w it is.
Keep in mind that if you have a dedicated line for your dial up you
will no longer need it thereby offsetting some of the cost.

I used to have a dedicated line for dialup. Now I have 8Mb/512Kb cable
for no more than I was paying for that dialup (ISP + phoneline). The
cable internet is more reliable too.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent
force for atheism ever conceived." -- Isaac Asimov

My AT&T dialup increased from 15 to $18. I upgraded to AT&T
Fastaccess DSL Lite which is $20 a month, not a promotion price, free
DSL modem and free installation. For just $2 more a month, I got
broadband and freed up the telephone line (for the first time I can
use the phone and surf at the same time). Comcast runs "specials"
that run out after so many days/months then it goes up to about $80 a
month. Beware of "promotional specials" and various fees. The
"bundle" Phone/Internet/TV for $100 a month is not a good deal.

On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 15:06:31 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 11:50:19 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

cable internet is more reliable too.
You must not have Comcast.

Correct. Other than the newsgroups, I have no experience with Comcast
other than the TV commercials that say "Comcastic" (and is
"televisiphonernetting" theirs too?).

BTW, the lack of DSL here may have something to do with the really
good non-Comcast cable internet here.

My MediaOne was solid as a rock and really fast 5meg or so (one way).
When Comcast took over and "upgraded" to two way the speed dropped to
1.5meg on a good day and reliability sucked. I cancelled them and
restarted a couple of times based on promises they had fixed their
problems and the last time I was down over a week ... because of a
configuration problem on their end they couldn't seem to fix.
Embarq DSL isn't perfect but it does seem more stable and the people
are better when you call.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent
force for atheism ever conceived." -- Isaac Asimov

In article ,
Doc wrote:
I've been thinking of getting DSL. EMBARQ offers what at first glance
seems like a decent deal 19.95/mo but looking at the "fine print" I'm
a bit put off.

I have Embarq DSL. If you are in an Embarq area, its probably the only
DSL provider you can have as opposed to many bell areas where you can
also get Earthlink, Focal and others.

The one thing that really really frosts me is that there is no dial
access that comes with it to use when the DSL is out or you are
traveling. You need a second ISP for that.

A minor annoyance was that if you try to go to a URL and you make a
typo, instead of getting a "no such address" it took you to an Embarq
site to try to sell you on Embarq services of various sorts. However, I
did notice an item on the screen, "check here to disable this "service""
which I have done and it now works properly. Earthlink introduced the
same thing, but to escape you had to go in your internet settings and
change the DNS pointer to an alternate Earthlink DNS server.

I pay $29.95 a month for DSL, but shipping the modem was rebated and I
don't recall any activation fee. Its part of a bundle which includes
local service and unlimited LD service

I don't recall any outages except one a few months ago which involved
physical damage to my phone line (phone also out).
--
Rich Greenberg N Ft Myers, FL, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 239 543 1353
Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67
Canines:Val, Red, Shasta & Casey (RIP), Red & Zero, Siberians Owner:Chinook-L
Retired at the beach Asst Owner:Sibernet-L

Rich Greenberg wrote:
In article ,
Doc wrote:
I've been thinking of getting DSL. EMBARQ offers what at first glance
seems like a decent deal 19.95/mo but looking at the "fine print" I'm
a bit put off.

I have Embarq DSL. If you are in an Embarq area, its probably the only
DSL provider you can have as opposed to many bell areas where you can
also get Earthlink, Focal and others.

The one thing that really really frosts me is that there is no dial
access that comes with it to use when the DSL is out or you are
traveling. You need a second ISP for that.

A minor annoyance was that if you try to go to a URL and you make a
typo, instead of getting a "no such address" it took you to an Embarq
site to try to sell you on Embarq services of various sorts. However, I
did notice an item on the screen, "check here to disable this "service""
which I have done and it now works properly. Earthlink introduced the
same thing, but to escape you had to go in your internet settings and
change the DNS pointer to an alternate Earthlink DNS server.

I pay $29.95 a month for DSL, but shipping the modem was rebated and I
don't recall any activation fee. Its part of a bundle which includes
local service and unlimited LD service

I don't recall any outages except one a few months ago which involved
physical damage to my phone line (phone also out).

Unfortunately the local Embarq service in my area is much more expensive
because you have to pay extra for phone service.

My choice is Embarq or Comcast SIGH Both SUCK

Lou

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 11:50:19 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

cable internet is more reliable too.
You must not have Comcast.
My MediaOne was solid as a rock and really fast 5meg or so (one way).
When Comcast took over and "upgraded" to two way the speed dropped to
1.5meg on a good day and reliability sucked. I cancelled them and
restarted a couple of times based on promises they had fixed their
problems and the last time I was down over a week ... because of a
configuration problem on their end they couldn't seem to fix.
Embarq DSL isn't perfect but it does seem more stable and the people
are better when you call.

The only problem I've had with Comcast in the last couple years was during a big
power outage, for a few days only. Otherwise it's been reliable and fast.

"Doc" ...
I've been thinking of getting DSL. EMBARQ offers what at first glance
seems like a decent deal 19.95/mo but looking at the "fine print" I'm
a bit put off.

-$99 "early termination fee". - So, if you decide the service stinks
and find a better provider, you're obliged to pay them for
approximately the equivalent of 5 months of service to get out of it.
They don't specify what "early" means as far as earlier than what.

But...

-EMBARQ may cancel services or susbstitute similar services at its
sole discretion without notice - How the hell about that. Are they
gonna pay me a $99 early termination fee?

-No minimum level of speed is guaranteed. - How cutting-edge of them
to buck the trend of "quality assurance". And if you decide the
product is no good, not only do you not get a refund, as per above
you're obligated to pay them for months of crappy service you never
received.

-Taxes, fees and surcharges are additional, subject to change without
notice and BASED ON NON-PROMOTIONAL, STANDARD MONTHLY RATE. - So,
they're going to play "let's pretend" and tax you on more than you're
paying.

-Additonal restrictions apply - Well, I'm sure that can only be good
news.

Oh, and they charge 14.95 to ship a modem and a $15 activation fee.

Is this all "normal" as far as such services? Anyone here using
EMBARQ? Thoughts?

Any providers out there that don't have all these kinds of caveats?

Dunno if this is still relevant but I just subscribed to this NG and found
this post....

I have Embarq. The only problem that I have with them is that they do not
support Usenet. Not at all. I had to go find this motzarella.org to use.
Tomes

In article ,
Tomes wrote:

Dunno if this is still relevant but I just subscribed to this NG and found
this post....

I have Embarq. The only problem that I have with them is that they do not
support Usenet. Not at all. I had to go find this motzarella.org to use.

Thats one problem. Another is that they do not have any facilities for
dialup for backup when DSL is down or you are traveling.

--
Rich Greenberg N Ft Myers, FL, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 239 543 1353
Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67
Canines:Val, Red, Shasta & Casey (RIP), Red & Zero, Siberians Owner:Chinook-L
Retired at the beach Asst Owner:Sibernet-L

On Feb 25, 11:45*pm, "Dave" wrote:
"Doc" wrote in message

...

I've been thinking of getting DSL. EMBARQ offers what at first glance
seems like a decent deal 19.95/mo but looking at the "fine print" I'm
a bit put off.

-$99 "early termination fee". - So, if you decide the service stinks
and find a better provider, you're obliged to pay them for
approximately the equivalent of 5 months of service to get out of it.
They don't specify what "early" means as far as earlier than what.

That's the real dealbreaker there.



But...

-EMBARQ may cancel services or susbstitute similar services at its
sole discretion without notice - How the hell about that. Are they
gonna pay me a $99 early termination fee?

-No minimum level of speed is guaranteed.

(snip)

Ummmm, you are shopping for DSL. *They have to state that no minimum level
of speed is guaranteed. *Speed of DSL is dependent on line length and line
condition. *Both are unknown quantities unless you want to pay the phone
company to run a brand new line from the CO to your computer area. *(You
don't want to know what that would cost.)
Best the phone company can do is ESTIMATE line length from the CO to your
house, and then give you a rough estimate of what speed your DSL -might- be,
after line is provisioned and modem is installed. *To over-simplify, shorter
wire length equals faster connection, assuming that the line condition is
OK.
This is not weasel wording by the phone company. *The phone company can not
tell you what speed your connection will be until AFTER DSL is "live" at
your house. *Therefore, no minimum level of speed is guaranteed. *And yes,
they have to spell that out in writing, just so they won't get sued when
that ultra-reliable 800K connection was advertised as "up to 1.5M" or
something like that, and some ignorant consumer misinterpreted that as a
speed guarantee...
I'm not calling you ignorant, btw. *It's just that, if you understood the
technology better, you wouldn't be worried about the phone company stating
that no minimum level of speed is guaranteed. *All they are really saying is
"We don't have a crystal ball".

-Taxes, fees and surcharges are additional, subject to change without
notice and BASED ON NON-PROMOTIONAL, STANDARD MONTHLY RATE. - So,
they're going to play "let's pretend" and tax you on more than you're
paying.

No, here they are saying that they are going to jack your rates way up after
a few months. *Typical, and another dealbreaker.



-Additonal restrictions apply - Well, I'm sure that can only be good
news.

Oh, and they charge 14.95 to ship a modem and a $15 activation fee.

That's about right. *Sometimes DSL providers will run specials where the
equipment charge and activation fee are waived. *But $30 total shipped and
activated? *That's actually pretty cheap.

Is this all "normal" as far as such services? Anyone here using
EMBARQ? Thoughts?

Any providers out there that don't have all these kinds of caveats?

Based on what you wrote, I would steer clear of embarq. *DSL is awesome,
MUCH more reliable than cable. *Comparing DSL to cable is not really fair.

"Anthony Matonak" wrote in message

The big difference is the speed. I went from 768 kbps DSL to 6000 kbps
on cable. I did a quick look at Verizon and see they have a 3000 kbps
offering but that is still half the speed of cable and they can't offer
this kind of speed where I live.

In some areas you can get 6000 kbps. Once the FIOS is complete it can be
even faster, I'm told.


In my opinion, most DSL is just not fast enough to be called broadband.

Your opinion does not count.

Then again... Anything is better than dialup.

Yes, that would be broadband

In article ,
Anthony Matonak wrote:

In my opinion, most DSL is just not fast enough to be called broadband.

Speed has nothing to do with broadband. Broadband is a networking
technology, while speed is a characteristic of a connection. You
can have very slow broadband, just as you can have very fast
baseband. Or you can have any speed you want on some other
networking technology.

-john-

--
================================================== ====================
John A. Weeks III * * * * * 612-720-2854 * * * * *
Newave Communications * * * * * * * * * * * * http://www.johnweeks.com
================================================== ====================

John A. Weeks III wrote
Anthony Matonak wrote

In my opinion, most DSL is just not fast enough to be called broadband.

Speed has nothing to do with broadband.

Wrong, as always.

Broadband is a networking technology,

Wrong, as always.

while speed is a characteristic of a connection. You can have very slow broadband,

Wrong, as always.

just as you can have very fast baseband. Or you can have
any speed you want on some other networking technology.

Networking using bluetooth aint broadband, stupid.

In article ,
"Rod Speed" wrote:

John
while speed is a characteristic of a connection. You can have very slow
broadband,

Wrong, as always.
You obviously haven't had experience with Brighthouse broadband
(g0. Before I yelled at them and they did something, my d/l speed was
actually slower than my upload speed.

Kurt Ullman wrote
Rod Speed wrote
John A. Weeks III wrote
Anthony Matonak wrote

In my opinion, most DSL is just not fast enough to be called broadband.

Speed has nothing to do with broadband.

Wrong, as always.

Broadband is a networking technology,

Wrong, as always.

while speed is a characteristic of a connection.
You can have very slow broadband,

Wrong, as always.

You obviously haven't had experience with Brighthouse broadband
(g0. Before I yelled at them and they did something, my d/l speed
was actually slower than my upload speed.

Thats just ****ed broadband and nothing to do with his stupid claims.

Anthony Matonak wrote:

The big difference is the speed. I went from 768 kbps DSL to 6000 kbps
on cable. I did a quick look at Verizon and see they have a 3000 kbps
offering but that is still half the speed of cable and they can't offer
this kind of speed where I live. The further you are away from the phone
office, the slower your connection speed.

In my opinion, most DSL is just not fast enough to be called broadband.


I have 3000 kbps service, and I am way far away from the switching
station (they put a relay in). It works at 3000 kbps, also.

Cable service around here is limited to Astound or Comcast. I know
nothing about Astound, but I have helped several friends with their
Comcast cable internet, and around here, seriously, the service STINKS.

(If you are in the San Francisco Bay Area, I can wholeheartedly
recommend my ISP, www.sonic.net, to be what I consider to be the world's
best ISP.)

In article
,
"John A. Weeks III" wrote:

Speed has nothing to do with broadband.

Uh, the term is opposed to "narrowband", neither of which were coined
until only a few years ago. "Broadband" was coined to provide
differentiation from the more common dial-up. Speed most certainly has
to do with "broadband".

Broadband is a networking technology

I disagree. "Broadband" is a generic term to describe any of SEVERAL
high-speed connectivity technologies.

speed is a characteristic of a connection.

That goes without saying.

You can have very slow broadband

Sure, relative to a higher rate broadband.

just as you can have very fast baseband.

"Baseband"? My spell-checker doesn't even recognize that one. That is
the first I've heard of it.

Words mean things. Broadband infers high - or higher - speed relative
to older, much slower technologies such as dial-up.

Or you can have any speed you want on some other
networking technology.

Ethernet? Wi-Fi? Bluetooth? Divining Rods?
--

JR

In article
,
Jim Redelfs wrote:

In article
,
"John A. Weeks III" wrote:

Speed has nothing to do with broadband.

Uh, the term is opposed to "narrowband", neither of which were coined
until only a few years ago. "Broadband" was coined to provide
differentiation from the more common dial-up. Speed most certainly has
to do with "broadband".

Broadband is a networking technology

I disagree. "Broadband" is a generic term to describe any of SEVERAL
high-speed connectivity technologies.

speed is a characteristic of a connection.

That goes without saying.

You can have very slow broadband

Sure, relative to a higher rate broadband.

just as you can have very fast baseband.

"Baseband"? My spell-checker doesn't even recognize that one. That is
the first I've heard of it.

So, have you ever heard of 10BaseT Ethernet? The "Base" part
means that it is a baseband signal.

Baseband networking is where the signal is anchored at zero hertz
and goes up from there. 10BaseT uses the first 10 megahertz of
the bandwidth. Broadband means that the signal is not anchored
to zero, and the signal can be relocated in referece to the zero
point. This is important when you are doing multiplexing (ie,
carrying several signals on one line). Just like you can have
10BaseT, which is 10-megabit baseband Ethernet over twisted
pair, you can also have 10BroadT, or other speeds, or other
physical cable mediums.

Words mean things. Broadband infers high - or higher - speed relative
to older, much slower technologies such as dial-up.

I agree that words mean things. That is why I attempted to help
educate you on what Broadband means.

-john-

--
================================================== ====================
John A. Weeks III * * * * * 612-720-2854 * * * * *
Newave Communications * * * * * * * * * * * * http://www.johnweeks.com
================================================== ====================

"John A. Weeks III" ) writes:
In article
,
Jim Redelfs wrote:

In article
,
"John A. Weeks III" wrote:

Speed has nothing to do with broadband.

Uh, the term is opposed to "narrowband", neither of which were coined
until only a few years ago. "Broadband" was coined to provide
differentiation from the more common dial-up. Speed most certainly has
to do with "broadband".

Broadband is a networking technology

I disagree. "Broadband" is a generic term to describe any of SEVERAL
high-speed connectivity technologies.

speed is a characteristic of a connection.

That goes without saying.

You can have very slow broadband

Sure, relative to a higher rate broadband.

just as you can have very fast baseband.

"Baseband"? My spell-checker doesn't even recognize that one. That is
the first I've heard of it.

So, have you ever heard of 10BaseT Ethernet? The "Base" part
means that it is a baseband signal.

Baseband networking is where the signal is anchored at zero hertz
and goes up from there. 10BaseT uses the first 10 megahertz of
the bandwidth. Broadband means that the signal is not anchored
to zero, and the signal can be relocated in referece to the zero
point. This is important when you are doing multiplexing (ie,
carrying several signals on one line). Just like you can have
10BaseT, which is 10-megabit baseband Ethernet over twisted
pair, you can also have 10BroadT, or other speeds, or other
physical cable mediums.

Words mean things. Broadband infers high - or higher - speed relative
to older, much slower technologies such as dial-up.

I agree that words mean things. That is why I attempted to help
educate you on what Broadband means.


But you didn't.

I still have no clue why "baseband" is in this discussion, since it
has no relevance.

"Broadband" means high bandwidth. It's basically a shortened version of
"broadbandwidth".

"Baseband" basically means a signal that isn't riding on top of something.
A video signal out of your VCR is a "baseband" signal, but if you hook your
your VCR to your tv set via channel 3, then the signal is no longer
baseband; the baseband signal is modulating the channel 3 carrier so it's
now radio frequency. "Baseband" is using band in a vein similar to "CB band",
not bandwidth, but what part of the spectrum.

"Broadband" doesn't care how the signal is delivered, so long as it is
high bandwidth. But the name does imply high speed, because otherwise
you don't get the high bandwidth.

Michael

John A. Weeks III wrote:

In article
,
Jim Redelfs wrote:


In article
,
"John A. Weeks III" wrote:


Speed has nothing to do with broadband.

Uh, the term is opposed to "narrowband", neither of which were coined
until only a few years ago. "Broadband" was coined to provide
differentiation from the more common dial-up. Speed most certainly has
to do with "broadband".


Broadband is a networking technology

I disagree. "Broadband" is a generic term to describe any of SEVERAL
high-speed connectivity technologies.


speed is a characteristic of a connection.

That goes without saying.


You can have very slow broadband

Sure, relative to a higher rate broadband.


just as you can have very fast baseband.

"Baseband"? My spell-checker doesn't even recognize that one. That is
the first I've heard of it.


So, have you ever heard of 10BaseT Ethernet? The "Base" part
means that it is a baseband signal.

Baseband networking is where the signal is anchored at zero hertz
and goes up from there. 10BaseT uses the first 10 megahertz of
the bandwidth. Broadband means that the signal is not anchored
to zero, and the signal can be relocated in referece to the zero
point. This is important when you are doing multiplexing (ie,
carrying several signals on one line). Just like you can have
10BaseT, which is 10-megabit baseband Ethernet over twisted
pair, you can also have 10BroadT, or other speeds, or other
physical cable mediums.


Words mean things. Broadband infers high - or higher - speed relative
to older, much slower technologies such as dial-up.


I agree that words mean things. That is why I attempted to help
educate you on what Broadband means.

-john-

Hmmm,
Where is this idea coming from broadband infers to high speed?
Broadband infers carrying capacity(voice, data, video, anakog or
digital)/ Ever heard of wideband? Higher capacity does not necessarily
mean higher speed. Ever heard of throughput?

On Mar 25, 11:39*pm, Tony Hwang wrote:
John A. Weeks III wrote:





In article
,
*Jim Redelfs wrote:

In article
,
"John A. Weeks III" wrote:

Speed has nothing to do with broadband.

Uh, the term is opposed to "narrowband", neither of which were coined
until only a few years ago. *"Broadband" was coined to provide
differentiation from the more common dial-up. *Speed most certainly has
to do with "broadband".

Broadband is a networking technology

I disagree. *"Broadband" is a generic term to describe any of SEVERAL
high-speed connectivity technologies.

speed is a characteristic of a connection.

That goes without saying.

You can have very slow broadband

Sure, relative to a higher rate broadband.

just as you can have very fast baseband.

"Baseband"? *My spell-checker doesn't even recognize that one. *That is
the first I've heard of it.

So, have you ever heard of 10BaseT Ethernet? *The "Base" part
means that it is a baseband signal.

Baseband networking is where the signal is anchored at zero hertz
and goes up from there. *10BaseT uses the first 10 megahertz of
the bandwidth. *Broadband means that the signal is not anchored
to zero, and the signal can be relocated in referece to the zero
point. *This is important when you are doing multiplexing (ie,
carrying several signals on one line). *Just like you can have
10BaseT, which is 10-megabit baseband Ethernet over twisted
pair, you can also have 10BroadT, or other speeds, or other
physical cable mediums.

Words mean things. *Broadband infers high - or higher - speed relative
to older, much slower technologies such as dial-up.

I agree that words mean things. *That is why I attempted to help
educate you on what Broadband means.

-john-

Hmmm,
Where is this idea coming from broadband infers to high speed?

It' obviously coming from people's experience in using it. They went
from dial-up to broadband and therefor think that it's called
broadband because web pages load much faster.

John is correct in pointing out that it actually refers to the fact
that in broadband, the transmission carries multiple frequencies,
which can be used for different purposes. In the case of cable TV,
that means the same cable can carry both digital internet traffic as
well as analog or digital TV encoded on seperate frequencies. In the
case of DSL, the wire can carry both analog voice and the internet
data in different bands.

With baseband, an example of which is ethernet, the frequency spectrum
is not divided up and the whole spectrum is used for the one signal.



Broadband infers carrying capacity(voice, data, video, anakog or
digital)/ Ever heard of wideband? Higher capacity does not necessarily
mean higher speed. Ever heard of throughput?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

wrote:
On Mar 25, 11:39 pm, Tony Hwang wrote:
John A. Weeks III wrote:





In article
,
Jim Redelfs wrote:

In article
,
"John A. Weeks III" wrote:

Speed has nothing to do with broadband.

Uh, the term is opposed to "narrowband", neither of which were
coined until only a few years ago. "Broadband" was coined to
provide differentiation from the more common dial-up. Speed most
certainly has to do with "broadband".

Broadband is a networking technology

I disagree. "Broadband" is a generic term to describe any of
SEVERAL high-speed connectivity technologies.

speed is a characteristic of a connection.

That goes without saying.

You can have very slow broadband

Sure, relative to a higher rate broadband.

just as you can have very fast baseband.

"Baseband"? My spell-checker doesn't even recognize that one. That
is the first I've heard of it.

So, have you ever heard of 10BaseT Ethernet? The "Base" part
means that it is a baseband signal.

Baseband networking is where the signal is anchored at zero hertz
and goes up from there. 10BaseT uses the first 10 megahertz of
the bandwidth. Broadband means that the signal is not anchored
to zero, and the signal can be relocated in referece to the zero
point. This is important when you are doing multiplexing (ie,
carrying several signals on one line). Just like you can have
10BaseT, which is 10-megabit baseband Ethernet over twisted
pair, you can also have 10BroadT, or other speeds, or other
physical cable mediums.

Words mean things. Broadband infers high - or higher - speed
relative to older, much slower technologies such as dial-up.

I agree that words mean things. That is why I attempted to help
educate you on what Broadband means.

-john-

Hmmm,
Where is this idea coming from broadband infers to high speed?

It' obviously coming from people's experience in using it. They went
from dial-up to broadband and therefor think that it's called
broadband because web pages load much faster.

John is correct in pointing out that it actually refers to the fact
that in broadband, the transmission carries multiple frequencies,
which can be used for different purposes.

Nope, its still broadband when its a single frequency with a lot of bandwidth
used for one purpose, most obviously with fibre to the home etc.

In the case of cable TV,

Just one form of broadband.

that means the same cable can carry both digital internet traffic
as well as analog or digital TV encoded on seperate frequencies.

Its still broadband if the same technology is JUST used for net access.

In the case of DSL, the wire can carry both
analog voice and the internet data in different bands.

But naked DSL is STILL broadband, most obviously with ADSL2+

With baseband, an example of which is ethernet, the frequency spectrum
is not divided up and the whole spectrum is used for the one signal.

And gigibit is still broadband. Its just not used for net
access because the distance is much too limited for that.

Fibre optic is tho.

Broadband infers carrying capacity(voice, data, video, anakog or
digital)/ Ever heard of wideband? Higher capacity does not
necessarily mean higher speed. Ever heard of throughput?

On Mar 23, 10:53*pm, "Tomes" wrote:

Dunno if this is still relevant but I just subscribed to this NG and found
this post....

I haveEmbarq. *The only problem that I have with them is that they do not
support Usenet.


By that, you mean you can't access Usenet through your mail reader?
Nothing stopping you from using Google Groups, correct?

Doc wrote:




By that, you mean you can't access Usenet through your mail reader?
Nothing stopping you from using Google Groups, correct?




Google groups is only for spam.

Doc wrote:
On Mar 23, 10:53 pm, "Tomes" wrote:

Dunno if this is still relevant but I just subscribed to this NG and found
this post....

I haveEmbarq. The only problem that I have with them is that they do not
support Usenet.


By that, you mean you can't access Usenet through your mail reader?
Nothing stopping you from using Google Groups, correct?

DO NOT use GG get Thunderbird

"Doc" wrote in message
...
On Mar 23, 10:53 pm, "Tomes" wrote:

Dunno if this is still relevant but I just subscribed to this NG and found
this post....

I haveEmbarq. The only problem that I have with them is that they do not
support Usenet.


By that, you mean you can't access Usenet through your mail reader?
Nothing stopping you from using Google Groups, correct?

_____________________________

Google Groups............ LOL
Tomes

Tomes wrote:

"Doc" wrote in message
...
On Mar 23, 10:53 pm, "Tomes" wrote:

Dunno if this is still relevant but I just subscribed to this NG and
found
this post....

I haveEmbarq. The only problem that I have with them is that they do not
support Usenet.


By that, you mean you can't access Usenet through your mail reader?
Nothing stopping you from using Google Groups, correct?

_____________________________

Google Groups............ LOL
Tomes
He is reading and posting here so it is not the program.