I have DSL, which of course uses standard copper phone lines. (All 4
wires, or just the red and green?)

Phone line out, DSL line in. Phone is always busy to callers from
outside. No dial tone for me, just silence.

How can this be?

Because some of my phone jacks weren't working, about 10 years ago, I
disconnected the line from the NIC to the basement, and ran a line up
the front of the house to the second floor, though the spare b'room and
to the DSL modem in the office. This also meant, even when I had
dial-up, that the computer got the freshest phone signal in the house.

The problem is probably where the round white solid 4-conductor phone
wire goes between the window and the window frame.

But my question is, how can the phone line be shorted while the DSL
works fine???. Aren't they both using the same 2 wires? (even though
there are 4 wires.)



BTW, I used to use thinner wire, but I've been using this stuff for the
last two years. I'm already planning to buy some shielded wire, to
replace the current round phone wire, so I can close the window better.

On 30.05.14 4:14, micky wrote:

I have DSL, which of course uses standard copper phone lines. (All 4
wires, or just the red and green?)

Phone line out, DSL line in. Phone is always busy to callers from
outside. No dial tone for me, just silence.

How can this be?

Because some of my phone jacks weren't working, about 10 years ago, I
disconnected the line from the NIC to the basement, and ran a line up
the front of the house to the second floor, though the spare b'room and
to the DSL modem in the office. This also meant, even when I had
dial-up, that the computer got the freshest phone signal in the house.

The problem is probably where the round white solid 4-conductor phone
wire goes between the window and the window frame.

But my question is, how can the phone line be shorted while the DSL
works fine???. Aren't they both using the same 2 wires? (even though
there are 4 wires.)



BTW, I used to use thinner wire, but I've been using this stuff for the
last two years. I'm already planning to buy some shielded wire, to
replace the current round phone wire, so I can close the window better.

They hook your phone wires through a dsl unit in the
switch room. That means, that even with the input wires
broken or disconnected, the outgoing wires from the
dsl unit still carry the dsl signal.
So, yes ,your scenario is quite possible.

On 5/29/2014 7:14 PM, micky wrote:

I have DSL, which of course uses standard copper phone lines. (All 4
wires, or just the red and green?)

Phone line out, DSL line in. Phone is always busy to callers from
outside. No dial tone for me, just silence.

How can this be?

Because some of my phone jacks weren't working, about 10 years ago, I
disconnected the line from the NIC to the basement, and ran a line up
the front of the house to the second floor, though the spare b'room and
to the DSL modem in the office. This also meant, even when I had
dial-up, that the computer got the freshest phone signal in the house.

The problem is probably where the round white solid 4-conductor phone
wire goes between the window and the window frame.

But my question is, how can the phone line be shorted while the DSL
works fine???. Aren't they both using the same 2 wires? (even though
there are 4 wires.)



BTW, I used to use thinner wire, but I've been using this stuff for the
last two years. I'm already planning to buy some shielded wire, to
replace the current round phone wire, so I can close the window better.

I just went thru this.
No dial tone, but DSL worked.
I disconnected the line. Had -50V on one wire and zero on the other.
Looks good to me...
but it wasn't zero because it was the ground return.
It was zero because squirrels had chewed thru it half a mile
away and that line was open.
The DSL managed to get thru the hot wire and the earth ground at the
junction
box. The phone needed a good return line.
Sounds like yours might be shorted somewhere keeping the line off-hook.

In article , micky
writes

But my question is, how can the phone line be shorted while the DSL
works fine???

One of the 2 wires is broken somewhere. That would kill phone service
but DSL still works because it's near radio frequencies and the single
wire still connected acts as an antenna.

Aren't they both using the same 2 wires?

Yes

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On 05/29/2014 10:41 PM, Sjouke Burry wrote:


They hook your phone wires through a dsl unit in the
switch room. That means, that even with the input wires
broken or disconnected, the outgoing wires from the
dsl unit still carry the dsl signal.
So, yes ,your scenario is quite possible.

Here the DSL is sent over the POTS twisted pair from a box on the next
block, thus negating the "maximum" distance problem with using a 3KHz
distribution system for 10Mhz or more signals.

If you don't have one, get a DSL splitter (outside)and use new wiring to
your DSL Modem. Even if it's a modular cable from Rat Shack or Beast
Buy, it's probably better than whatever's in your walls. Here we can't
get DSL without voice.

On Thu, 29 May 2014 23:05:16 -0700, mike wrote:

...snip...
I just went thru this.
No dial tone, but DSL worked.
I disconnected the line. Had -50V on one wire and zero on the other.
Looks good to me...
but it wasn't zero because it was the ground return.
It was zero because squirrels had chewed thru it half a mile
away and that line was open.
The DSL managed to get thru the hot wire and the earth ground at the
junction
box. The phone needed a good return line.
Sounds like yours might be shorted somewhere keeping the line off-hook.

Yours was open fialed the low frequency stuff, of course, but the high
frequency could still get through.

OP might have a 'short'which caused the switch house to 'think' he's
always OFF HOOK, probably went through that sequence of loud recording
followed by no more POT line power, thus he hears dead silence, no calls
come through and callers get BUSY tones.

So, disconnect your line from the houw wiring, measure the impedance
between lines at your box, if it's not you call the phone company. If it's
you, start tracing down the problem.

On Thursday, May 29, 2014 7:14:24 PM UTC-7, micky wrote:
I have DSL, which of course uses standard copper phone lines. (All 4
wires, or just the red and green?)

Phone line out, DSL line in. Phone is always busy to callers from
outside. No dial tone for me, just silence.

When this happened to me, it was traced to a short-circuit between my house and the SLC terminal. One symptom was that the on-hook voltage was about 3V, which was attributed to corrosion between the splices of the wire pair (underground, about 10m from my house). There was enough signal getting through for my DSL to work, but the system thought my telephone was off-hook.

On Fri, 30 May 2014 07:39:47 -0700, RobertMacy
wrote:

On Thu, 29 May 2014 23:05:16 -0700, mike wrote:

...snip...
I just went thru this.
No dial tone, but DSL worked.
I disconnected the line. Had -50V on one wire and zero on the other.
Looks good to me...
but it wasn't zero because it was the ground return.
It was zero because squirrels had chewed thru it half a mile
away and that line was open.
The DSL managed to get thru the hot wire and the earth ground at the
junction
box. The phone needed a good return line.
Sounds like yours might be shorted somewhere keeping the line off-hook.

Yours was open fialed the low frequency stuff, of course, but the high
frequency could still get through.

OP might have a 'short'which caused the switch house to 'think' he's
always OFF HOOK, probably went through that sequence of loud recording
followed by no more POT line power, thus he hears dead silence, no calls
come through and callers get BUSY tones.

So, disconnect your line from the houw wiring, measure the impedance
between lines at your box, if it's not you call the phone company. If it's
you, start tracing down the problem.

As to the question, everyone who attributed the DSL working to high
frequencies was probably right. The Verizon woman on the phone also
said the phone and dsl used different frequencies. Thanks everyone.

As to the problem, I was going to measure voltages, but first I went
outside to check things. Verizon will now check one's line and she
said they could tell if the problem was at their end or mine. She said
she got a green meaning the phone company's situation was good. One
can also do the same test online, and then it follows with more
instructions on testing (which I assumed would be helpful but later
realized it was no more than what I already knew (disconnect each wired
to see if the dial tone comes back) , and arranged in an order that
wasn't best for me.)

So I did get a dialtone outside the house, and then I tugged on the ends
and pushed in on the ends of the 12 inch modular wire I was using to
connect to the round wire. Then I went in and for a few reasons forgot
to test for 5 more hours, at which time everything worked.

So it either fixed itself after 32 hours or more, or my fiddling with
the wire restored a connection. Thanks everyone for the help.

I'm going to replace the chain of modular wire - round wire - modular
wire with

dave wrote:

On 05/29/2014 10:41 PM, Sjouke Burry wrote:


They hook your phone wires through a dsl unit in the
switch room. That means, that even with the input wires
broken or disconnected, the outgoing wires from the
dsl unit still carry the dsl signal.
So, yes ,your scenario is quite possible.

Here the DSL is sent over the POTS twisted pair from a box on the next
block, thus negating the "maximum" distance problem with using a 3KHz
distribution system for 10Mhz or more signals.

The real reason for those RTs (Remote Terminals, a Central Office in a
box) is the lack of useable copper pair capacity from the old big
building COs. Not only has there been a lot of growth in population
density, but much of that old copper infrastructure is in bad shape and
many pairs in it are unusable.

One big problem with those RTs is the lack of backup power. They have
batteries which will hold them for eight hours or so when new, and a lot
less in a few years of baking in the sun and freezing in the winter.
Unlike big building COs they do not have permanently installed backup
generators.

The Telco has towable generators to theoretically back up the RTs,
however the ration of RTs to generators is large and a big storm can
both exhaust the generator supply and also make towing them to some RT
locations difficult with flooding, downed trees, etc. Cell service is
now more reliable than land lines, since the cell sites do have
generators and fuel supplies to last at least a few days.

As for DSL working and voice getting a busy signal, remember that it
does not take a short to take a line "off hook", rather it takes a
certain amount of current flow which means that a corroded damaged cable
could provide a partial short enough to take the line "off hook", but
not prevent the DSL from working to at least some extent.

DSL uses the same two lines as the phone. No one mentioned a splitter or filters.

Have Verizon install one for you OUTSIDE in the NID. There new ones are really cool in terms of what you can do testing wise.

The NID typically presents a 1/2 ringer load.

The splitter basically brakes up the DC and ring signals and passes the voice band which includes about 3 Khz. Frequencies up to about 5 MHz are used by the DSL modem in bands.

I have the worst interior lines in terms of number of phones, locations, bells and non-home run, Mostly quad wire. The Telco guy says the DSL is pristine though. The original splitter I installed in the NID. When the NID was installed a length of 4-pair was run inside the house.

The highest pair, I reserved for DSL. The DSL section is about 3" to a punch down block and then to a CAT3 RJ11. I run CAT4 RJ11 direct to the modem about 5 feet away. The DSL line can be polarity reversed, so I use a straight thru Cat4 RJ11 cable.

Telco is a hodge-podge mess mostly installed by the phone company in the 60's. There are basically two origin points and some piggy backing off of existing jacks.

I'm planning a switch at the DSL modem that will do modem #1, modem #2, Reverse, normal. but I haven't rewired the switch to CAT5.

So, telco goes to a carbon surge protector/studs on the inside, which I could pull the carbon out because surge suppression is also done in the NID.

For now, it works, but a few internal lines have been disconnected. Spiders and water. I did make a few quad wire to CAT4 spice boxes. The first one is not quite in service yet, A non-removable terminal strip for the quad wire and a removable strip for the CAT4 so I can easily disconnect the one that likes to get water in it. I'm in the process of installing a CAT6 patch panel for network and phone. It's currently vacant right now,

Anyway back to DSL. If the Modem is connected and powered on to the DSL line without a filter or splitter you will hear a high frequency hiss in any phone without a filter, Turn off the modem and the hiss goes away. Picking up a phone could cause modem issues if turned on.

The phone will work if the DSL modem is off and the modem will work as long as no phone is picked up if there is no splitter or filter.

Filters are limited to 4 or 5, I think 4. You only need a single splitter and the DSL quality goes up.