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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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Sony picture tube
Where can I find a picture tube (cylindrical shape, 1990) and a service
manual for a Sony KV-20EXR10 on the internet? I understand it probably won't be worth doing. However, the image geometry of the current flat direct view sets is unacceptable to me. Thanks, Dave M. |
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Sony picture tube
"Dave M." wrote in message ... Where can I find a picture tube (cylindrical shape, 1990) and a service manual for a Sony KV-20EXR10 on the internet? I understand it probably won't be worth doing. However, the image geometry of the current flat direct view sets is unacceptable to me. Thanks, Dave M. Hmmm, with the pitiful commercial tv fare offered today, it's a wonder you noticed image geometry distortion. /regards, Tom |
#3
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Sony picture tube
I have no idea about the net, but you will have to find a scrapper set with
a good tube in it. This will be a very rare find! The tube for your set is not available from Sony any more. There are some CRT rebuilders around that may be able to rebuild the old one. If they can have the electron-gun, they will replace it. The cost is not cheap. With a rebuilt tube, you are stuck with the old phosphors. If the phosphors have some burns or wear, you would be stuck with that. But, if they are acceptable you will have a renewed tube. The rebuilts generally last about 2 to 3 years. I myself would prefer a new Wega over the old EXR series. The cost for the rebuilt tube, including the transport will come close to the same as a new set, and that is if you do your own installation work. As for the service manual, there is a chance that it is still available from Sony. I think it used to cost about $40 to $60 US from Sony, plus the mailing charge, if I remember correctly. Remember that when replacing a tube on a very old set with a lot of years on it, there are many other components that can easily fail soon after. If non available components fail, you will be out a lot of bucks, having a set with a newly rebuilt tube, and not repairable. I have seen this from time to time with persistent customers, when I was in this business. If you call a Sony service centre in your area, they can tell you where they are going to have their CRT's rebuilt, if they are doing this type of service for their customers. Also, they may want to sell you the rebuilt tube, rather than you going directly. -- Greetings, Jerry Greenberg GLG Technologies GLG ========================================= WebPage http://www.zoom-one.com Electronics http://www.zoom-one.com/electron.htm ========================================= "Dave M." wrote in message ... Where can I find a picture tube (cylindrical shape, 1990) and a service manual for a Sony KV-20EXR10 on the internet? I understand it probably won't be worth doing. However, the image geometry of the current flat direct view sets is unacceptable to me. Thanks, Dave M. |
#4
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Sony picture tube
Then you need to check into the new Panasonic flat screen sets they have
a better picture than the new sonys . |
#5
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Sony picture tube
"Ken G." wrote in message
... Then you need to check into the new Panasonic flat screen sets they have a better picture than the new sonys . What "flat screens" exactly are you referring to? Flat CRTs, PDPs? "Better picture" is also a very vague statement. In the case of PDPs the Panasonics have always been a better choice than the Sonys. The most recent Sonys are actually closer to the Panasonics in performance than previous models, though the Pansonic is easily a better display. In the case of flat CRTs, the differences between the Panasonic and Sony are typical of those of the past many years. Geometry, purity, and convergence are similar. Ability to resolve detail is slightly better on good signals on the Sony. The Panasonics have a softer look that is more forgiving of lousy signals. The Sony sets seem to over enhance any noise, while the Panasonics have less of a tendency to do so. Likely due to flatter video response in the Panasonic and a slightly softer look in the CRT. In terms of design, personally, I like the newest Sony sets as they seem to be somewhat more robust, but time will tell in this matter. Leonard Caillouet |
#6
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Sony picture tube
I agree, It's a big investment, but the quality control of this set is very
tight as far as convergence geometry, etc.. , but, I had to replace the STK series triple regulator twice in this set. Sony must have had a problem with this chip. The third chip was replaced with an ECG series device. It's been four years with no problem. I'm worried, because a new set might not satisfy me. "Jerry G." wrote in message ... I have no idea about the net, but you will have to find a scrapper set with a good tube in it. This will be a very rare find! The tube for your set is not available from Sony any more. There are some CRT rebuilders around that may be able to rebuild the old one. If they can have the electron-gun, they will replace it. The cost is not cheap. With a rebuilt tube, you are stuck with the old phosphors. If the phosphors have some burns or wear, you would be stuck with that. But, if they are acceptable you will have a renewed tube. The rebuilts generally last about 2 to 3 years. I myself would prefer a new Wega over the old EXR series. The cost for the rebuilt tube, including the transport will come close to the same as a new set, and that is if you do your own installation work. As for the service manual, there is a chance that it is still available from Sony. I think it used to cost about $40 to $60 US from Sony, plus the mailing charge, if I remember correctly. Remember that when replacing a tube on a very old set with a lot of years on it, there are many other components that can easily fail soon after. If non available components fail, you will be out a lot of bucks, having a set with a newly rebuilt tube, and not repairable. I have seen this from time to time with persistent customers, when I was in this business. If you call a Sony service centre in your area, they can tell you where they are going to have their CRT's rebuilt, if they are doing this type of service for their customers. Also, they may want to sell you the rebuilt tube, rather than you going directly. -- Greetings, Jerry Greenberg GLG Technologies GLG ========================================= WebPage http://www.zoom-one.com Electronics http://www.zoom-one.com/electron.htm ========================================= "Dave M." wrote in message ... Where can I find a picture tube (cylindrical shape, 1990) and a service manual for a Sony KV-20EXR10 on the internet? I understand it probably won't be worth doing. However, the image geometry of the current flat direct view sets is unacceptable to me. Thanks, Dave M. |
#7
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Sony picture tube
"Ken G." wrote in message ... Then you need to check into the new Panasonic flat screen sets they have a better picture than the new sonys . I've always been a fan of Panasonic and not just TV's. The problem with all three gun sets is the image texture the aperture or shadow mask creates (Sony's don't do that). Things look smoother. Also, The single beam seams not to diffuse as much as triple beams in the highlights. |
#8
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Sony picture tube
"Leonard Caillouet" wrote in message news:MgZIb.31853$F22.24081@lakeread02... "Ken G." wrote in message ... Then you need to check into the new Panasonic flat screen sets they have a better picture than the new sonys . What "flat screens" exactly are you referring to? Flat CRTs, PDPs? "Better picture" is also a very vague statement. In the case of PDPs the Panasonics have always been a better choice than the Sonys. The most recent Sonys are actually closer to the Panasonics in performance than previous models, though the Pansonic is easily a better display. In the case of flat CRTs, the differences between the Panasonic and Sony are typical of those of the past many years. Geometry, purity, and convergence are similar. Ability to resolve detail is slightly better on good signals on the Sony. The Panasonics have a softer look that is more forgiving of lousy signals. The Sony sets seem to over enhance any noise, while the Panasonics have less of a tendency to do so. Likely due to flatter video response in the Panasonic and a slightly softer look in the CRT. I've always attributed these softness problems to the three beam system. However, three beam tubes such as Toshibas can be much brighter. Panasonics look dim to me. In terms of design, personally, I like the newest Sony sets as they seem to be somewhat more robust, but time will tell in this matter. Leonard Caillouet |
#9
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Sony picture tube
Try here.
http://www.partsolver.com/search.asp...+Parts&s=Googl e I saw a manual and lots of parts. Not sure if you will find what you need. They have a 1-800 number to call and ask for the part. "Dave M." wrote in message ... Where can I find a picture tube (cylindrical shape, 1990) and a service manual for a Sony KV-20EXR10 on the internet? I understand it probably won't be worth doing. However, the image geometry of the current flat direct view sets is unacceptable to me. Thanks, Dave M. |
#10
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Sony picture tube
On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 22:34:59 GMT, "Dave M."
wrote: I've always attributed these softness problems to the three beam system. However, three beam tubes such as Toshibas can be much brighter. Panasonics look dim to me. Three beam system? Even sony wega still has three guns. Softness or hardness of details comes from both circuit (filtering & shaping waveforms) and quality of flyback transformer to supply stable & clean focus supply. I know because RCA CRT were used in so many brands, Daewoo has same CRT (exact same part number) as in other JVC and RCA 27" sets and both JVC and RCA has good sharpness while Daewoo has nasty too soft look, ditto to Philips's even on their newest flat CRT, looks nasty and cheap where flat crt is expected to give stunning pix and quality but wasn't. Cheers, Wizard In terms of design, personally, I like the newest Sony sets as they seem to be somewhat more robust, but time will tell in this matter. Leonard Caillouet |
#11
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Sony picture tube
Very interesting . I work with both of these sets 02 and 03 Sony and
Panasonics from 27`` on up to 36`` all flat CRT sets . These are sitting on a shelf in a store together with the same signal . The Panasonic always has the better picture deeper contrast . Both sets have a very bright picture if you like it up that bright . The Sonys look great but kinda washed out even with the contrast all the way up . Customers and other employees agree . The 36`` Sonys put out some sort of wierd signal that causes lines in several sets on the same coax line . The sonys sell slow because of the over high price . I dont think much of Sharp brand tubed tv`s but their new flat 32`` set even looks better and deeper than a Sony . If you plopped a new Panasonic down in your house and watched it for a couple weeks you would never miss the old Sony |
#12
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Sony picture tube
"Jason D." wrote in message ... On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 22:34:59 GMT, "Dave M." wrote: I've always attributed these softness problems to the three beam system. However, three beam tubes such as Toshibas can be much brighter. Panasonics look dim to me. This was a very vague generalization that does not fit with my experience, but then the "dimness" of the Panasonic is not how I would describe the pix. He is likely confusing sharpness with contrast. One impacts the other to the extent that transitions in the image give the impression of sharpness due to a contrast difference, but the real difference that is pervasive in Panasonics is the lack of excessive edge enhancement. Look at a mutiburst pattern and the resulting output on a Panasonic compared to a Sony sometime and it is clear that the video response is flatter on a Panasonic more often than on a Sony. I have been told that the same is true in their professional products. The Sony may be less "correct" but may look better on certain material. My point was that some people may like one better and some may like the other and it is source quality dependent as well. Making assumptions about which is "best" is less effective than just looking at them on varied sources and learning how to adjsut them properly. Three beam system? Even sony wega still has three guns. Softness or hardness of details comes from both circuit (filtering & shaping waveforms) and quality of flyback transformer to supply stable & clean focus supply. I am sure he was referring (poorly said) to the fact that the Sony uses a "unitized" cathode design. Of course all direct view color CRTs use three cathodes...read up on the differences in CRT design... I know because RCA CRT were used in so many brands, Daewoo has same CRT (exact same part number) as in other JVC and RCA 27" sets and both JVC and RCA has good sharpness while Daewoo has nasty too soft look, ditto to Philips's even on their newest flat CRT, looks nasty and cheap where flat crt is expected to give stunning pix and quality but wasn't. So are you saying that CRTs don't make a difference? That is as silly a generalization as the poster you replied to made. Certainly the "look" of a set has to do with the CRT design and execution as well as with the associated video processing, deflection and high voltage control. Even the generalizations that I made in my previous post have to be qualified. Making sweeping assumptions is the best way to be wrong. Leonard Caillouet |
#13
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Sony picture tube
If you plopped a new Panasonic down in your house and watched it for a
couple weeks you would never miss the old Sony Since I play with DVDs quite a bit, I have to stick with Sony. Panasonic hasn't made a 4:3 display with 16:9 "squeeze" as far as I know. Besides, when *calibrated properly* (read with no velocity scan modulation and proper adjustments in the user and service settings) the Sonys are mind blowing in terms of their picture quality, especially when you see it in action with a high resolution video source. As for reliability, I have to agree with Mr. Caillouet. The Sonys have a better design of the horizontal drive than the Panasonics, for instance. Plus, with the Pannys, you still have to deal with the inherent weakness of the shadow mask, while the inherent weakness of the aperture grille doesn't even compare. The 36`` Sonys put out some sort of wierd signal that causes lines in several sets on the same coax line . Have you tried turning off velocity scanning modulation? As for my choice if I couldn't get Sony. I'd buy a Toshiba over a Panasonic anyday. - Reinhart |
#14
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Sony picture tube
As I've always seen them, Sony direct view crt sets process poor signals
better with purer color and produce sharper bright detail such as white text... better than any other set that I've seen. It's indisputable. "Leonard Caillouet" wrote in message news:a2eJb.32265$F22.4949@lakeread02... "Jason D." wrote in message ... On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 22:34:59 GMT, "Dave M." wrote: I've always attributed these softness problems to the three beam system. However, three beam tubes such as Toshibas can be much brighter. Panasonics look dim to me. This was a very vague generalization that does not fit with my experience, but then the "dimness" of the Panasonic is not how I would describe the pix. He is likely confusing sharpness with contrast. One impacts the other to the extent that transitions in the image give the impression of sharpness due to a contrast difference, but the real difference that is pervasive in Panasonics is the lack of excessive edge enhancement. Look at a mutiburst pattern and the resulting output on a Panasonic compared to a Sony sometime and it is clear that the video response is flatter on a Panasonic more often than on a Sony. I have been told that the same is true in their professional products. The Sony may be less "correct" but may look better on certain material. My point was that some people may like one better and some may like the other and it is source quality dependent as well. Making assumptions about which is "best" is less effective than just looking at them on varied sources and learning how to adjsut them properly. Three beam system? Even sony wega still has three guns. Softness or hardness of details comes from both circuit (filtering & shaping waveforms) and quality of flyback transformer to supply stable & clean focus supply. I am sure he was referring (poorly said) to the fact that the Sony uses a "unitized" cathode design. Of course all direct view color CRTs use three cathodes...read up on the differences in CRT design... I know because RCA CRT were used in so many brands, Daewoo has same CRT (exact same part number) as in other JVC and RCA 27" sets and both JVC and RCA has good sharpness while Daewoo has nasty too soft look, ditto to Philips's even on their newest flat CRT, looks nasty and cheap where flat crt is expected to give stunning pix and quality but wasn't. So are you saying that CRTs don't make a difference? That is as silly a generalization as the poster you replied to made. Certainly the "look" of a set has to do with the CRT design and execution as well as with the associated video processing, deflection and high voltage control. Even the generalizations that I made in my previous post have to be qualified. Making sweeping assumptions is the best way to be wrong. Leonard Caillouet |
#15
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Sony picture tube
Oh boy! I was already there. With the part number of the tube. It's not
available, but I think the manual is. Thanks anyway. "King David" wrote in message news:gQ1Jb.188634$8y1.605376@attbi_s52... Try here. http://www.partsolver.com/search.asp...+Parts&s=Googl e I saw a manual and lots of parts. Not sure if you will find what you need. They have a 1-800 number to call and ask for the part. "Dave M." wrote in message ... Where can I find a picture tube (cylindrical shape, 1990) and a service manual for a Sony KV-20EXR10 on the internet? I understand it probably won't be worth doing. However, the image geometry of the current flat direct view sets is unacceptable to me. Thanks, Dave M. |
#16
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Sony picture tube
"Jason D." wrote in message ... On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 22:34:59 GMT, "Dave M." wrote: I've always attributed these softness problems to the three beam system. However, three beam tubes such as Toshibas can be much brighter. Panasonics look dim to me. Three beam system? Even sony wega still has three guns. Softness or hardness of details comes from both circuit (filtering & shaping waveforms) and quality of flyback transformer to supply stable & clean focus supply. Sony developed an alternative tube technology known as Trinitron. It combined the three separate electron guns into one device: Sony refers to this as a Pan Focus gun. Most interesting of all, Trinitron tubes were made from sections of a cylinder, vertically flat and horizontally curved, as opposed to conventional tubes using sections of a sphere which are curved in both axes. Rather than grouping dots of red, green and blue phosphor in triads, Trinitron tubes lay their coloured phosphors down in uninterrupted vertical stripes. I know because RCA CRT were used in so many brands, Daewoo has same CRT (exact same part number) as in other JVC and RCA 27" sets and both JVC and RCA has good sharpness while Daewoo has nasty too soft look, ditto to Philips's even on their newest flat CRT, looks nasty and cheap where flat crt is expected to give stunning pix and quality but wasn't. Cheers, Wizard In terms of design, personally, I like the newest Sony sets as they seem to be somewhat more robust, but time will tell in this matter. Leonard Caillouet |
#17
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Sony picture tube
If it is indisputable then I suppose that I stand corrected. Everyone
should own a Sony and everyone will always have picture postcard perfect images at all times. No need for HDTV. It is indisputable. Leonard Caillouet "Dave M." wrote in message ... As I've always seen them, Sony direct view crt sets process poor signals better with purer color and produce sharper bright detail such as white text... better than any other set that I've seen. It's indisputable. "Leonard Caillouet" wrote in message news:a2eJb.32265$F22.4949@lakeread02... "Jason D." wrote in message ... On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 22:34:59 GMT, "Dave M." wrote: I've always attributed these softness problems to the three beam system. However, three beam tubes such as Toshibas can be much brighter. Panasonics look dim to me. This was a very vague generalization that does not fit with my experience, but then the "dimness" of the Panasonic is not how I would describe the pix. He is likely confusing sharpness with contrast. One impacts the other to the extent that transitions in the image give the impression of sharpness due to a contrast difference, but the real difference that is pervasive in Panasonics is the lack of excessive edge enhancement. Look at a mutiburst pattern and the resulting output on a Panasonic compared to a Sony sometime and it is clear that the video response is flatter on a Panasonic more often than on a Sony. I have been told that the same is true in their professional products. The Sony may be less "correct" but may look better on certain material. My point was that some people may like one better and some may like the other and it is source quality dependent as well. Making assumptions about which is "best" is less effective than just looking at them on varied sources and learning how to adjsut them properly. Three beam system? Even sony wega still has three guns. Softness or hardness of details comes from both circuit (filtering & shaping waveforms) and quality of flyback transformer to supply stable & clean focus supply. I am sure he was referring (poorly said) to the fact that the Sony uses a "unitized" cathode design. Of course all direct view color CRTs use three cathodes...read up on the differences in CRT design... I know because RCA CRT were used in so many brands, Daewoo has same CRT (exact same part number) as in other JVC and RCA 27" sets and both JVC and RCA has good sharpness while Daewoo has nasty too soft look, ditto to Philips's even on their newest flat CRT, looks nasty and cheap where flat crt is expected to give stunning pix and quality but wasn't. So are you saying that CRTs don't make a difference? That is as silly a generalization as the poster you replied to made. Certainly the "look" of a set has to do with the CRT design and execution as well as with the associated video processing, deflection and high voltage control. Even the generalizations that I made in my previous post have to be qualified. Making sweeping assumptions is the best way to be wrong. Leonard Caillouet |
#18
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Sony picture tube
On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 08:06:15 -0500, "Leonard Caillouet"
wrote: "Jason D." wrote in message ... On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 22:34:59 GMT, "Dave M." wrote: I've always attributed these softness problems to the three beam system. However, three beam tubes such as Toshibas can be much brighter. Panasonics look dim to me. This was a very vague generalization that does not fit with my experience, but then the "dimness" of the Panasonic is not how I would describe the pix. Snip assumptions about which is "best" is less effective than just looking at them on varied sources and learning how to adjsut them properly. Hmm, I find that decent design in electronics and known decent CRTs like JVC, RCA, mitsubishi etc produced very nice pictures and excellent life. I still want no AKB through. it is bit too hard on CRTs and prematurely cuts down on useful life because most consumers don't mind that knowing their TV is already older and do have acceptable picture and still want theirs fixed to extend their current set for awhile till picture go really lousy or repair cost becomes too high. Three beam system? Even sony wega still has three guns. Softness or hardness of details comes from both circuit (filtering & shaping waveforms) and quality of flyback transformer to supply stable & clean focus supply. I am sure he was referring (poorly said) to the fact that the Sony uses a "unitized" cathode design. Of course all direct view color CRTs use three cathodes...read up on the differences in CRT design... Oh? I had taken the books on the CRTs and even broken up few CRTs including Sony's, we have an Sony 19 shadow mask & frame hanging on the wall nail & a RCA 13" CRT shadow mask. I took many gun assemblies from duds. I know because RCA CRT were used in so many brands, Daewoo has same CRT (exact same part number) as in other JVC and RCA 27" sets and both JVC and RCA has good sharpness while Daewoo has nasty too soft look, ditto to Philips's even on their newest flat CRT, looks nasty and cheap where flat crt is expected to give stunning pix and quality but wasn't. So are you saying that CRTs don't make a difference? That is as silly a generalization as the poster you replied to made. Certainly the "look" of a set has to do with the CRT design and execution as well as with the associated video processing, deflection and high voltage control. uh huh. Look again, point is even a outstanding CRT can be nullifed by a poor electronic design (Daewoo's awful chassis using RCA CRT also looks awful). Keep in mind that RCA produced so many CRTs with rebranded stickers but the RCA's unique stickers with their unique fonts and bonded yokes gave source of origin away. Some JVC sets (usually 32") also used panasonic CRTs and looked really good but all panasonic sets looks soft and somewhat poor contrast. I like excellent focus without SVM and best contrast and correct amount of brightness. There's no denying that some CRTs is awful especially philips's but even a awful tube can be still improved with good flyback transformer design & overall chassis design. Zenith CRT is no contest, it's total trash. Leonard Caillouet Cheers, Wizard |
#19
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Sony picture tube
"Leonard Caillouet" wrote in message news:P%oJb.33810$F22.20083@lakeread02... If it is indisputable then I suppose that I stand corrected. Everyone should own a Sony and everyone will always have picture postcard perfect images at all times. No need for HDTV. It is indisputable. Leonard Caillouet Well he did give a rather specific condition under which Sony does a better job, either way I would tend to agree that Sony TV's look significantly better than anything else I've seen, they're not for everybody because they're expensive and not everyone cares enough about pic quality. HDTV is a different beast, Sony makes those too of course, I haven't spent any time comparing them though. |
#20
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Sony picture tube
Well he did give a rather specific condition under which Sony does a better
job, either way I would tend to agree that Sony TV's look significantly better than anything else I've seen, they're not for everybody because they're expensive and not everyone cares enough about pic quality. HDTV is a different beast, Sony makes those too of course, I haven't spent any time comparing them though. Sony is nice sets but cost, oh my. And WAS former of one, sony 27" and it only lasted 3 yr for 800 cdn from sears, (around 1997 or 98) 1 yr warrenty that's bad deal. Tube wore out prematurely, luckily we got JVC instead on sears's goodwill, still going strong. JVC and RCA has nice CRT life, mostly have no AKB but note some of current RCA sets has AKB, and very few JVC models (usually high end) has AKB. Speaking of AKB, citizen has it now for quite while now. A ideal TV I'd be rather like to see SONY's circuitry with manual convergence (already done in Sony & rebadged Sony monitors) to a regular pincushion capable RCA CRT without AKB or switcheable off. This turning off or on AKB was good idea in recent Samsung sets (again using RCA CRT), I had to troubleshoot this samsung tv by turning AKB off via service menu and picture finally popped up making fault symptoms identifable & successfully fixed. Was one small ceramic disk capacitor (10pF, 50V) gone high resistance made diffcult to find if without able to switch AKB off. This is one of those newer samsung tv that plays short melody on power off or on. Cheers, Wizard |
#21
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Sony picture tube
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#22
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Sony picture tube
I think the sony name is an emotional thing with some people therefor it
has to be better . |
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