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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
Posted to sci.electronics.components, sci.electronics.design, sci.electronics.repair, alt.engineering.electrical
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Multi-conductor control cable: PVC vs.
I need to replace a cable (16-conductor, 28-ish awg, stranded, shielded) on
an industrial machine. Its used to connet a hand controller (small box with rotary encoder and pushbuttons) to the main control panel. The original is a coiled (a la telephone handset) but the replacement doesnt need to be. During use the cable will be splashed with lubricating oil (think dino motor oil) so in the short-term (5 years) it needs to be resistant to this. I found this: http://www.mogamicable.com/category/...ti_core/28awg/ which is cable for the music-concert industry (audio mixers and such). I cant find any rubber-insulated cables (a la SJ or SO cables). How resistant will PVC-jacket be to oil? Thanks. |
#2
Posted to sci.electronics.components,sci.electronics.design,sci.electronics.repair,alt.engineering.electrical
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Multi-conductor control cable: PVC vs.
On 10/11/2015 19:25, DaveC wrote:
I need to replace a cable (16-conductor, 28-ish awg, stranded, shielded) on an industrial machine. Its used to connet a hand controller (small box with rotary encoder and pushbuttons) to the main control panel. The original is a coiled (a la telephone handset) but the replacement doesnt need to be. During use the cable will be splashed with lubricating oil (think dino motor oil) so in the short-term (5 years) it needs to be resistant to this. I found this: http://www.mogamicable.com/category/...ti_core/28awg/ which is cable for the music-concert industry (audio mixers and such). I cant find any rubber-insulated cables (a la SJ or SO cables). How resistant will PVC-jacket be to oil? Thanks. Find some silicone rubber sleeving of the right sort of internal diameter. With a goodly amount of talcum powder , it should be possible to cover some standard cable, using a "peristaltic" or snake-motion sort of action, pushing and pulling, to feed it over the core cabling. |
#3
Posted to sci.electronics.components, sci.electronics.design, sci.electronics.repair, alt.engineering.electrical
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Multi-conductor control cable: PVC vs.
Find some silicone rubber sleeving of the right sort of internal diameter.
With a goodly amount of talcum powder , it should be possible to cover some standard cable, using a "peristaltic" or snake-motion sort of action, pushing and pulling, to feed it over the core cabling. Are you saying that the PVC wont hold up to dino oils? |
#4
Posted to sci.electronics.components,sci.electronics.design,sci.electronics.repair,alt.engineering.electrical
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Multi-conductor control cable: PVC vs.
"DaveC" wrote in message ... I need to replace a cable (16-conductor, 28-ish awg, stranded, shielded) on an industrial machine. Its used to connet a hand controller (small box with rotary encoder and pushbuttons) to the main control panel. The original is a coiled (a la telephone handset) but the replacement doesnt need to be. During use the cable will be splashed with lubricating oil (think dino motor oil) so in the short-term (5 years) it needs to be resistant to this. I found this: http://www.mogamicable.com/category/...ti_core/28awg/ which is cable for the music-concert industry (audio mixers and such). I cant find any rubber-insulated cables (a la SJ or SO cables). How resistant will PVC-jacket be to oil? Thanks. PVC jacketed cables are oil resistant. |
#5
Posted to sci.electronics.components, sci.electronics.design, sci.electronics.repair, alt.engineering.electrical
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Multi-conductor control cable: PVC vs.
You need to find a manufacturer's data sheet to be sure.
http://www.mogamicable.com/category/...ti_core/28awg/ |
#6
Posted to sci.electronics.components, sci.electronics.design,sci.electronics.repair, alt.engineering.electrical
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Multi-conductor control cable: PVC vs.
On Tue, 10 Nov 2015 14:14:18 -0800, DaveC wrote:
You need to find a manufacturer's data sheet to be sure. http://www.mogamicable.com/category/...ti_core/28awg/ No useful info on oil resistance there. The oil resistance of PVC is widely variable, depending on the plasticisers used and possibly other factors, but is generally quite poor. I have never seen any cable rated as oil resistant with a PVC jacket. I have seen PVC swell, lose strength and disintegrate from exposure to oil. A search on the term 'oil resistant cable' should turn up something more likely to hold up well under oil exposure, at a higher cost. |
#8
Posted to sci.electronics.components,sci.electronics.design,sci.electronics.repair,alt.engineering.electrical
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Multi-conductor control cable: PVC vs.
On 11/10/2015 2:44 PM, DaveC wrote:
Find some silicone rubber sleeving of the right sort of internal diameter. With a goodly amount of talcum powder , it should be possible to cover some standard cable, using a "peristaltic" or snake-motion sort of action, pushing and pulling, to feed it over the core cabling. Are you saying that the PVC wont hold up to dino oils? I don't know what "dino" oils are, but PVC seems to be resistant to many things. http://www.plasticsintl.com/plastics...nce_chart.html Looks like there is more than one type of PVC. Why this particular cable company? I wouldn't think the music industry has much in common with machine tools. Why not use a cable from one of the cable companies where they specify it for industrial use around oils? http://www.igus.com/wpck/15050/overv...bles?C=US&L=en http://www.lappusa.com/10150description.htm If this cable will be continually bent and moved, don't you need a special type of cable for that? I would contact one of the cable manufacturers and find out what they recommend. -- Rick |
#9
Posted to sci.electronics.components,sci.electronics.design,sci.electronics.repair
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Multi-conductor control cable: PVC vs.
On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 18:49:21 -0500, rickman Gave us:
I don't know what "dino" oils are, but PVC seems to be resistant to many things. Yeah, right. That's why NASA uses it exactly NOWHERE. The same is true of the makers of nuclear power facilities. Sometimes you show a true lack of knowledge and experience. You remind me of Donald Trump. |
#10
Posted to sci.electronics.components, sci.electronics.design, sci.electronics.repair, alt.engineering.electrical
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Multi-conductor control cable: PVC vs.
Are you saying that the PVC wont hold up to dino oils?
I don't know what "dino" oils are, from crude oil source, as opposed to synthetics but PVC seems to be resistant to many things. http://www.plasticsintl.com/plastics...nce_chart.html Looks like there is more than one type of PVC. Why this particular cable company? I wouldn't think the music industry has much in common with machine tools. The cable is available by-the-foot (I need 12 ft total). The local distributor emailed the Japanese manufacturer who confirmed that they tested this PVC cable with gasoline which flushed out the particular plasticizers and hardened the remaining PVC. So no-go. Why not use a cable from one of the cable companies where they specify it for industrial use around oils? http://www.igus.com/wpck/15050/overv...bles?C=US&L=en http://www.lappusa.com/10150description.htm Specs look good, but minimum order is roll of 100 ft. I might be able to sell remainder on e-Flea but then again, maybe not. Might get mfgr. to sample. Well see€¦ igus.com have a really nice parameter search page: http://www.igus.com/wpck/7101/CF_Productfinder_US This one looks good: http://www.igus.com/iPro/iPro_01_001...18&c=US&l =en If this cable will be continually bent and moved, don't you need a special type of cable for that? I would contact one of the cable manufacturers and find out what they recommend. It will be used occasionally--its a convenience (occasional-use) hand control box. Have requested samples from those that look good. Thanks. |
#11
Posted to sci.electronics.components, sci.electronics.design, sci.electronics.repair, alt.engineering.electrical
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Multi-conductor control cable: PVC vs.
silicone
Jamie Suppliers of such cables? |
#12
Posted to sci.electronics.components,sci.electronics.design,sci.electronics.repair,alt.engineering.electrical
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Multi-conductor control cable: PVC vs.
On 11/15/2015 2:47 PM, DaveC wrote:
silicone Jamie Suppliers of such cables? I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but this is a question that a simple google search should give good results for. Have you tried googling for silicone and the other parameters you require? -- Rick |
#13
Posted to sci.electronics.components,sci.electronics.design,sci.electronics.repair,alt.engineering.electrical
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Multi-conductor control cable: PVC vs.
In article -
september.org, says... silicone Jamie Suppliers of such cables? Really? http://www.awcwire.com/productspec.a...nsulated-hook- up-wire So some leg work.. If you want a large quanity I can hook you up but be prepaired to pay the piper. jamie |
#14
Posted to sci.electronics.components,sci.electronics.design,sci.electronics.repair,alt.engineering.electrical
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Multi-conductor control cable: PVC vs.
In article -
september.org, says... silicone Jamie Suppliers of such cables? Oh that's right, you did say cable http://www.awcwire.com/productspec.a...silicone-cable jamie |
#15
Posted to sci.electronics.components,sci.electronics.design,sci.electronics.repair,alt.engineering.electrical
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Multi-conductor control cable: PVC vs.
On Tue, 10 Nov 2015 11:25:01 -0800, DaveC wrote:
I need to replace a cable (16-conductor, 28-ish awg, stranded, shielded) on an industrial machine. It’s used to connet a hand controller (small box with rotary encoder and pushbuttons) to the main control panel. The original is a coiled (a la telephone handset) but the replacement doesn’t need to be. During use the cable will be splashed with lubricating oil (think dino motor oil) so in the short-term (5 years) it needs to be resistant to this. I found this: http://www.mogamicable.com/category/...ti_core/28awg/ which is cable for the music-concert industry (audio mixers and such). I can’t find any rubber-insulated cables (a la SJ or SO cables). How resistant will PVC-jacket be to oil? Thanks. Try Alpha Wire 'Xtra-Guard' 'High-Flex'. They will pre-cut. UL AWM Styles 2587, 2661, 20234. All oil-resistant PVC. RL |
#16
Posted to alt.engineering.electrical,sci.electronics.components,sci.electronics.design,sci.electronics.repair
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Multi-conductor control cable: PVC vs.
I have forty years experience in designing and building machine tool,
robotic and automations systems. Whenever I require a cable that might be exposed to oil or coolant contamination, or will encounter high rates of flexing I only specify Olflex. It's more expensive than most, but a lot less expensive than failure and replacement. |
#17
Posted to sci.electronics.components, sci.electronics.design, sci.electronics.repair, alt.engineering.electrical
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Multi-conductor control cable: PVC vs.
On 11/15/2015 2:47 PM, DaveC wrote:
silicone Jamie Suppliers of such cables? I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but this is a question that a simple google search should give good results for. Have you tried googling for silicone and the other parameters you require? 16-conductor stranded, 24 awg or smaller, color-coded or numbered, single shield (foil or braid), oil-resistant jacket. Please try yourself. Ive had no luck. Im not saying one doesnt exit, but its not easy to find. OK, people€“ready, set, GO! Thanks. |
#18
Posted to sci.electronics.components, sci.electronics.design, sci.electronics.repair, alt.engineering.electrical
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Multi-conductor control cable: PVC vs.
16-conductor stranded, 24 awg or smaller, color-coded or numbered, single
shield (foil or braid), oil-resistant jacket. Please try yourself. Ive had no luck. Im not saying one doesnt exit, but its not easy to find. And cut to order (no 100 ft rolls, please€“I need only 12 feet). Thanks. |
#19
Posted to alt.engineering.electrical, sci.electronics.components, sci.electronics.design, sci.electronics.repair
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Multi-conductor control cable: PVC vs.
I have forty years experience in designing and building machine tool,
robotic and automations systems. Whenever I require a cable that might be exposed to oil or coolant contamination, or will encounter high rates of flexing I only specify Olflex. It's more expensive than most, but a lot less expensive than failure and replacement. I appreciate that this is, enviably, wonderful cable. But it comes in minimum size of 20 awg. If only it met all my requirements. My need is for a hand-controller (think Atari joystick)€“carrying milliamps. 20 awg is overkill at the expense of weight, diameter, and (arguably) greater flexibility. Thanks. |
#20
Posted to sci.electronics.components,sci.electronics.design,sci.electronics.repair,alt.engineering.electrical
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Multi-conductor control cable: PVC vs.
On 11/17/2015 11:33 PM, DaveC wrote:
16-conductor stranded, 24 awg or smaller, color-coded or numbered, single shield (foil or braid), oil-resistant jacket. Please try yourself. Ive had no luck. Im not saying one doesnt exit, but its not easy to find. And cut to order (no 100 ft rolls, please€“I need only 12 feet). Thanks. Your best and cheapest solution may be to use a VTN-200 heat shrink to cover your standard PVC sheathed multicore. VTN-200 shrink is chemical and oil resistant and easily available. eg. Ebay # 251726064642 Might be an idea NOT to shrink it as it is more flexible unshrunk. |
#21
Posted to sci.electronics.components,sci.electronics.design,sci.electronics.repair,alt.engineering.electrical
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Multi-conductor control cable: PVC vs.
On 11/17/2015 11:33 PM, DaveC wrote:
16-conductor stranded, 24 awg or smaller, color-coded or numbered, single shield (foil or braid), oil-resistant jacket. Please try yourself. Ive had no luck. Im not saying one doesnt exit, but its not easy to find. And cut to order (no 100 ft rolls, please€“I need only 12 feet). I can get you everything but the 12 foot section, and from multiple sources. There are lots of cables that fit your requirements. It will be hard to find such a short length of a specialized cable. You should look for a local supplier. I used to work in a shop where they sold all manner of wires and tubing in short lengths... but then again that place went out of business a long time ago. -- Rick |
#22
Posted to alt.engineering.electrical,sci.electronics.components,sci.electronics.design,sci.electronics.repair
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Multi-conductor control cable: PVC vs.
On Tue, 17 Nov 2015 20:45:05 -0800, DaveC wrote:
I have forty years experience in designing and building machine tool, robotic and automations systems. Whenever I require a cable that might be exposed to oil or coolant contamination, or will encounter high rates of flexing I only specify Olflex. It's more expensive than most, but a lot less expensive than failure and replacement. I appreciate that this is, enviably, wonderful cable. But it comes in minimum size of 20 awg. If only it met all my requirements. My need is for a hand-controller (think Atari joystick)–carrying milliamps. 20 awg is overkill at the expense of weight, diameter, and (arguably) greater flexibility. Thanks. The Alpha products go down to 26AWG ~ typical of com cables, with twisted pair varieties. It's kind of difficult to determine the guages in the Olflex info, due to notation method in product tables, but I'm pretty sure they'll offer the same thing. By the way, PVC=Vinyl, oil and chemical resistant or otherwise. RL |
#23
Posted to alt.engineering.electrical, sci.electronics.components, sci.electronics.design, sci.electronics.repair
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Multi-conductor control cable: PVC vs.
By the way, PVC=Vinyl, oil
and chemical resistant or otherwise. RL Insulation is rarely PVC-only€“€“that would be plumbing pipe. Its the plasticizers mixed with the PVC that make it flexible and may not be oil-resistant. Wash that in a petroleum product and the plasticizers give up the ghost. |
#24
Posted to sci.electronics.components, sci.electronics.design, sci.electronics.repair, alt.engineering.electrical
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Multi-conductor control cable: PVC vs.
Your best and cheapest solution may be to use a VTN-200 heat shrink to
cover your standard PVC sheathed multicore. VTN-200 shrink is chemical and oil resistant and easily available. eg. Ebay # 251726064642 Might be an idea NOT to shrink it as it is more flexible unshrunk. Thats a great idea. Ill check it out. Thanks. |
#25
Posted to sci.electronics.components,sci.electronics.design,sci.electronics.repair
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Multi-conductor control cable: PVC vs.
On Wed, 18 Nov 2015 09:41:54 -0800, DaveC Gave us:
Your best and cheapest solution may be to use a VTN-200 heat shrink to cover your standard PVC sheathed multicore. VTN-200 shrink is chemical and oil resistant and easily available. eg. Ebay # 251726064642 Might be an idea NOT to shrink it as it is more flexible unshrunk. That’s a great idea. I’ll check it out. Thanks. Shrinking the right size choice can be flexible, but also then becomes THICKER, as in a better armor against abrasion. |
#26
Posted to sci.electronics.components,sci.electronics.design,sci.electronics.repair
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Multi-conductor control cable: PVC vs.
On 11/18/2015 12:51 PM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote:
On Wed, 18 Nov 2015 09:41:54 -0800, DaveC Gave us: Your best and cheapest solution may be to use a VTN-200 heat shrink to cover your standard PVC sheathed multicore. VTN-200 shrink is chemical and oil resistant and easily available. eg. Ebay # 251726064642 Might be an idea NOT to shrink it as it is more flexible unshrunk. That’s a great idea. I’ll check it out. Thanks. Shrinking the right size choice can be flexible, but also then becomes THICKER, as in a better armor against abrasion. Good point, choose the diameter carefully depending on whether you intend to shrink it or not. |
#27
Posted to sci.electronics.components,sci.electronics.design,sci.electronics.repair
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Multi-conductor control cable: PVC vs.
On Wed, 18 Nov 2015 13:19:42 -0500, JC Gave
us: On 11/18/2015 12:51 PM, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote: On Wed, 18 Nov 2015 09:41:54 -0800, DaveC Gave us: Your best and cheapest solution may be to use a VTN-200 heat shrink to cover your standard PVC sheathed multicore. VTN-200 shrink is chemical and oil resistant and easily available. eg. Ebay # 251726064642 Might be an idea NOT to shrink it as it is more flexible unshrunk. That’s a great idea. I’ll check it out. Thanks. Shrinking the right size choice can be flexible, but also then becomes THICKER, as in a better armor against abrasion. Good point, choose the diameter carefully depending on whether you intend to shrink it or not. Depending on whether you want the item you are shrinking over to be grasped tightly by the shrink or not. I have shrank tubing over a ferrite rod and noticed that a poor choice results in a bit of magnetostriction. I choose one that fully shrinks but still does not quite 'grasp' the rod. I get multiple benefits. No more magnetostriction and a thicker spacing from the rod to my subsequent winding, resulting in less parasitic capacitance and a better antenna/inductor/transformer, etc. |
#28
Posted to alt.engineering.electrical,sci.electronics.components,sci.electronics.design,sci.electronics.repair
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Multi-conductor control cable: PVC vs.
On Wed, 18 Nov 2015 09:00:48 -0800, DaveC wrote:
By the way, PVC=Vinyl, oil and chemical resistant or otherwise. RL Insulation is rarely PVC-only––that would be plumbing pipe. It’s the plasticizers mixed with the PVC that make it flexible and may not be oil-resistant. Wash that in a petroleum product and the plasticizers give up the ghost. The spec sheet for either Alpha or Lapp products will list the degree of resistance to oil or chemicals. I don't know what you go by, but gasoline and other solvents don't tend to hang around - they may sometimes be intentionally used in cleaning, but only under 'user beware' conditions. Both mfrs sell on-line. Alpha will cut. Mogami has made superior products for a long time before being purchased by OKI. I doubt quality has suffered, but they do not and have never addressed industrial environmental requirements - that's not their market. Get off the pot. RL |
#29
Posted to alt.engineering.electrical,sci.electronics.components,sci.electronics.design,sci.electronics.repair
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Multi-conductor control cable: PVC vs.
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#30
Posted to alt.engineering.electrical, sci.electronics.components, sci.electronics.design, sci.electronics.repair
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Multi-conductor control cable: PVC vs.
Good point... The ends of the shrink shroud will have to be protected to
ensure that the oil does not get inside. Otherwise it will "hang around" doing its worst! Mike. I will put RTV in the end of the shrink and apply heat. Shrink-n-seal. All this will be well inside the multipin connector so will be clamped with strain relief. Thanks. |
#31
Posted to sci.electronics.components,sci.electronics.design,sci.electronics.repair
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Multi-conductor control cable: PVC vs.
On Thu, 19 Nov 2015 08:25:33 -0800, DaveC Gave us:
Good point... The ends of the shrink shroud will have to be protected to ensure that the oil does not get inside. Otherwise it will "hang around" doing its worst! Mike. I will put RTV in the end of the shrink and apply heat. Shrink-n-seal. All this will be well inside the multipin connector so will be clamped with strain relief. Thanks. No. Do not do that. RTV detaches with a sneeze. Use "lined" shrink tubing for the cable end dress.. A shorter piece, and when heated, it exudes a sealant internally. One way to source it is to search for "HV heat shrink". It is usually of the lined variety. |
#32
Posted to sci.electronics.components,sci.electronics.design,sci.electronics.repair
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Multi-conductor control cable: PVC vs.
On Sun, 15 Nov 2015 16:39:21 -0500, rickman Gave us:
On 11/15/2015 2:47 PM, DaveC wrote: silicone Jamie Suppliers of such cables? I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but this is a question that a simple google search should give good results for. Have you tried googling for silicone and the other parameters you require? Jamie is an idiot. Silicone wires are typically for HV. They are also typically of the single variety, as in not a bundle of conductors for use in making a cable. HV ganged together usually exhibits corona issues, and is therefore not often done, so finding single silicone wires might be easy, but fashioning lightweight cables from it is not very feasible. Philbrook is an electrical buffoon. |
#33
Posted to sci.electronics.components,sci.electronics.design,sci.electronics.repair
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Multi-conductor control cable: PVC vs.
On Tue, 17 Nov 2015 20:33:57 -0800, DaveC Gave us:
16-conductor stranded, 24 awg or smaller, color-coded or numbered, single shield (foil or braid), oil-resistant jacket. Please try yourself. I’ve had no luck. I’m not saying one doesn’t exit, but it’s not easy to find. And cut to order (no 100 ft rolls, please–I need only 12 feet). Thanks. Use what you have and place kynar or other heat shrink over it. |
#34
Posted to sci.electronics.components,sci.electronics.design,sci.electronics.repair
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Multi-conductor control cable: PVC vs.
On Thu, 19 Nov 2015 11:46:35 -0500, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
Gave us: On Thu, 19 Nov 2015 08:25:33 -0800, DaveC Gave us: Good point... The ends of the shrink shroud will have to be protected to ensure that the oil does not get inside. Otherwise it will "hang around" doing its worst! Mike. I will put RTV in the end of the shrink and apply heat. Shrink-n-seal. All this will be well inside the multipin connector so will be clamped with strain relief. Thanks. No. Do not do that. RTV detaches with a sneeze. Use "lined" shrink tubing for the cable end dress.. A shorter piece, and when heated, it exudes a sealant internally. One way to source it is to search for "HV heat shrink". It is usually of the lined variety. https://www.google.com/search?q=adhe...utf-8&oe=utf-8 |
#35
Posted to sci.electronics.components, sci.electronics.design, sci.electronics.repair
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Multi-conductor control cable: PVC vs.
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno wrote
Use "lined" shrink tubing for the cable end dress.. OK, thanks. Will do. |
#36
Posted to sci.electronics.components, sci.electronics.design, sci.electronics.repair, alt.engineering.electrical
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Multi-conductor control cable: PVC vs.
FYI, Alpha Cable sampled me the cable in the length I need. Great!
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#37
Posted to sci.electronics.components,sci.electronics.design,sci.electronics.repair
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Multi-conductor control cable: PVC vs.
On Sun, 22 Nov 2015 17:34:05 -0800, DaveC Gave us:
FYI, Alpha Cable sampled me the cable in the length I need. Great! Did they also sample you a couple of 6 inch pieces with adhesive lining? You were gonna seal up the ends, remember? |
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