We received a notice from the power company that they intend to replace our two electric meters with the new wireless units. These meters emit short bursts of RF multiple times a day at a fairly substantial RF level. These transmissions are received by a "collector" which is apparently mounted on a utility pole on the street. This data is sent to a receiver and computer in a power company truck as it drives by and returned to their office where it's downloaded and bills are generated. Great for the power company but not for the meter readers. There are people all over the country up in arms over these things. Some have blocked installations and have been arrested for it.

While it's true that many of them are non technical people who just need something to jump up and down about my grand children sleep in the room adjacent to the meters and I think that I understand a little bit more about this, and it concerns me.

I asked the power company to provide me with more information and initially I was stonewalled until I contacted my state representative who then contacted them for me. Now they're kissing my ass with information but still telling me this is going to happen at some near point in the future.

Has anyone else had to deal with this and can you comment on my safety concerns? If it's true that there is no recourse to them making this modification, to increase the distance squared I've considered moving the meters to a utility pole which is on my property about 75 feet from the house. this would probably have to be at my expense I suspect.

The following is some information about these meters. Some of it I had requested and some extra which they threw in. I know that it's a lot to look at but if you can I'd really appreciate if you guys could please have a look at it and tell me what you think. I'm really concerned about this. Thanks very much. Lenny

Q. I understand these units operate in RF - Radio Frequency. Are they emitting short or
long range signals?
A: The signal from the meter is transmitted in the range 902-928 MHz (mega-hertz). The
reading capability is dependent on a number of variables and cannot be accurately assessed
without site specific information, but typically the signal may be received by the meter reading
equipment within 1/4 mile or so.
2)
Q: Regarding the signal, is it a "Bubble-Up" unit where it is transmitting all the time or is it
a "Wake-Up" unit where it transmits when it receives a signal?
A: The meter transmits reading data every 30 seconds in a brief milliseconds burst. The
manufacturer designed it that way to accommodate any reading schedule required by the
utility. The meter is a one-way communication device. The meter would not know when the
reading device was going to be in close proximity to the meter, therefore it needs to transmit
frequently so that it may be read whenever the reading device is nearby.
3)
Q: What frequency and wattage of transmit power is the unit operating at and at what
antennae gain?
Ex. Unit transmits at 900MHz with 1 watt of transmit power with antennae gain of 0.
A: The signal from the meter is transmitted in the range 902-928 mhz (mega-hertz) The
maximum power output for the endpoint devices is less than half a watt, while the maximum
power output of the collection device is less than 1 watt. In comparison, the average light bulb is
60 watts.
Frequency = 909 to 922 MHz
Transmit Power = 147 mW (21.67dBm)
Antenna Gain = 0 dB.
4)
Q: What's the antennae gain at peak power and what wattage is the peak power?
Ex. Antennae gain of 4.0 dBi for peak level power of 2.5 watts.
A: The maximum power output for the endpoint devices is less than half a watt, while the
maximum power output of the collection device is less than 1 watt. In comparison, the average
light bulb is 60 watts.
Frequency = 908 to 923.8 MHz
Transmit Power = 250 mW (24dBm)
Antenna Gain = 2.2 dB
5)
Q: How many times in total - both average and maximum - is the unit scheduled to transmit during a 24-hr time frame?
A: The meter transmits reading data every 30 seconds in a brief milliseconds burst - about 53 milliseconds referred to as the "duty cycle". The total RF transmission time in a 24 hour period is between 1.5 - 2.5 minutes depending on the type of meter and therefore data being transmitted. Signal levels are 1/10th of the "Maximum Permissible Exposure Levels" as defined by the FCC--lower than many everyday appliances and electronic devices around your home, and are only transmitted briefly and periodically rather than constantly.
What's the "first hop" technology being used to send?
Ex. Mobile Radio Frequencies? Mesh Radio Frequencies? Fixed Radio?
A: This is not AMI, this is AMR. There isn't any 'first hop', the data is transmitted to a computer in a vehicle driving nearby and then the computer is returned to the utility at the end of the day and directly connected to the utility internal network and the meter readings are uploaded to utility internal systems.
6)
Q: Is this unit considered to be a "Licensed" or "Unlicensed" transmitter by the FCC?
A: The meters operate in the unlicensed 902-928 MHz frequency range and the devices are regulated by the FCC. Itron's products are stringently evaluated for RF safety and meet all Federal Communication Commission (FCC), Industry Canada (IC), and Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers (IEEE) standards. FCC OET Bulletin 65 supplement C Edition 01-01 (known as OET-65C) provides further guidance on determining compliance for portable and mobile devices.
7)
Q: Because each unit needs power to run itself, what is the unit's power consumption rate per month?
Ex. 2 kW hours? 1kW hours?
Also, what would be the additional monthly cost of the power the unit needs to function (based on the # of kW hours it needs to function) as I know you guys just had a rate hike?
· A: The power to the meter components is supplied on the line side of the meter. Therefore there is no cost difference associated with the running of the AMR meter to your previous meter. We are enhancing our technology to serve you better. Installing AMR meters allows us to continue to provide safe, timely, accurate meter reading but at a lower cost. Controlling costs is an important factor in determining Eversource rates.
8)
Q: Does the unit have a battery? What is the battery's life (in years)?
A: Yes there is a battery in the unit. The battery's life is the same as the life of the meter which is 20 to 25 years..
For more information pertaining to the AMR C1SR Meter please visit the ITRON website:
https://itron.com/na/resourcesAndSup...nter-FAQs.aspx
https://itron.com/na/resourcesAndSup...esource-Center.

wrote:



Has anyone else had to deal with this and can you comment on my safety
concerns? If it's true that there is no recourse to them making this
modification, to increase the distance squared I've considered moving the
meters to a utility pole which is on my property about 75 feet from the
house. this would probably have to be at my expense I suspect.

Do you have a cell phone? It emits enough power to be received 20 miles
away, and transmits bursts 20+ times a second when you are talking.

The electronic meters send messages to a concentrator that is no more than
about 2 blocks away, every few minutes. Generally, the concentrators send
the data to a central site directly, through a second antenna on it.

There are 50 KW radio stations in almost every town, and TV stations (now
all in the UHF band) running 100KW - 500KW output. It seems ridiculous to
complain about these meters, when people are using cell phones, bluetooth,
and all manner of other devices that radiate far more energy.

Jon

On 08/07/2015 01:22, wrote:
We received a notice from the power company that they intend to
replace our two electric meters with the new wireless units. These
meters emit short bursts of RF multiple times a day at a fairly
substantial RF level. These transmissions are received by a
"collector" which is apparently mounted on a utility pole on the
street. This data is sent to a receiver and computer in a power
company truck as it drives by and returned to their office where it's
downloaded and bills are generated. Great for the power company but
not for the meter readers. There are people all over the country up
in arms over these things. Some have blocked installations and have
been arrested for it.

While it's true that many of them are non technical people who just
need something to jump up and down about my grand children sleep in
the room adjacent to the meters and I think that I understand a
little bit more about this, and it concerns me.

You could get a roll of aluminium foil and wallpaper the wall between
the meters and the bedroom.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urglg3WimHA

Depending on how careful you are with the joins you could achieve a very
low field strength. This is probably counterproductive as it may
attenuate cellphone signals and thereby cause the cellphones that the
children are using to ramp up the transmitters to maximum power right on
their heads.

On Wed, 08 Jul 2015 10:56:58 +1000, Chris Jones
wrote:

You could get a roll of aluminium foil and wallpaper the wall between
the meters and the bedroom.

There's a good chance that you may already have the foil in place.
Some construction uses foil backed fiberglass insulation. In the
roof, there's foil backed foam board and glass wool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urglg3WimHA

Depending on how careful you are with the joins you could achieve a very
low field strength. This is probably counterproductive as it may
attenuate cellphone signals and thereby cause the cellphones that the
children are using to ramp up the transmitters to maximum power right on
their heads.

Nope, that doesn't work. Aluminum foil reflects RF and sends it in
some other direction. Put foil in the walls and you could just as
easily increase the RF field strength as decrease it. For example,
the corners of a room make a nice 90 degree corner reflector antenna.

Instead what you need is an RF absorber, not a reflector. Carbon foam
is good. A wet towel will also work. Anything that absorbs RF.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

wrote in message
...

We received a notice from the power company that they intend to replace our
two electric meters with the new wireless units. These meters emit short
bursts of RF multiple times a day at a fairly substantial RF level. These
transmissions are received by a "collector" which is apparently mounted on a
utility pole on the street. This data is sent to a receiver and computer in
a power company truck as it drives by and returned to their office where
it's downloaded and bills are generated. Great for the power company but not
for the meter readers. There are people all over the country up in arms over
these things. Some have blocked installations and have been arrested for it.

While it's true that many of them are non technical people who just need
something to jump up and down about my grand children sleep in the room
adjacent to the meters and I think that I understand a little bit more about
this, and it concerns me.

I asked the power company to provide me with more information and initially
I was stonewalled until I contacted my state representative who then
contacted them for me. Now they're kissing my ass with information but still
telling me this is going to happen at some near point in the future.

Has anyone else had to deal with this and can you comment on my safety
concerns? If it's true that there is no recourse to them making this
modification, to increase the distance squared I've considered moving the
meters to a utility pole which is on my property about 75 feet from the
house. this would probably have to be at my expense I suspect.

The following is some information about these meters. Some of it I had
requested and some extra which they threw in. I know that it's a lot to look
at but if you can I'd really appreciate if you guys could please have a look
at it and tell me what you think. I'm really concerned about this. Thanks
very much. Lenny

Q. I understand these units operate in RF - Radio Frequency. Are they
emitting short or
long range signals?
A: The signal from the meter is transmitted in the range 902-928 MHz
(mega-hertz). The
reading capability is dependent on a number of variables and cannot be
accurately assessed
without site specific information, but typically the signal may be received
by the meter reading
equipment within 1/4 mile or so.
2)
Q: Regarding the signal, is it a "Bubble-Up" unit where it is transmitting
all the time or is it
a "Wake-Up" unit where it transmits when it receives a signal?
A: The meter transmits reading data every 30 seconds in a brief milliseconds
burst. The
manufacturer designed it that way to accommodate any reading schedule
required by the
utility. The meter is a one-way communication device. The meter would not
know when the
reading device was going to be in close proximity to the meter, therefore it
needs to transmit
frequently so that it may be read whenever the reading device is nearby.
3)
Q: What frequency and wattage of transmit power is the unit operating at and
at what
antennae gain?
Ex. Unit transmits at 900MHz with 1 watt of transmit power with antennae
gain of 0.
A: The signal from the meter is transmitted in the range 902-928 mhz
(mega-hertz) The
maximum power output for the endpoint devices is less than half a watt,
while the maximum
power output of the collection device is less than 1 watt. In comparison,
the average light bulb is
60 watts.
Frequency = 909 to 922 MHz
Transmit Power = 147 mW (21.67dBm)
Antenna Gain = 0 dB.
4)
Q: What's the antennae gain at peak power and what wattage is the peak
power?
Ex. Antennae gain of 4.0 dBi for peak level power of 2.5 watts.
A: The maximum power output for the endpoint devices is less than half a
watt, while the
maximum power output of the collection device is less than 1 watt. In
comparison, the average
light bulb is 60 watts.
Frequency = 908 to 923.8 MHz
Transmit Power = 250 mW (24dBm)
Antenna Gain = 2.2 dB
5)
Q: How many times in total - both average and maximum - is the unit
scheduled to transmit during a 24-hr time frame?
A: The meter transmits reading data every 30 seconds in a brief milliseconds
burst - about 53 milliseconds referred to as the "duty cycle". The total RF
transmission time in a 24 hour period is between 1.5 - 2.5 minutes depending
on the type of meter and therefore data being transmitted. Signal levels are
1/10th of the "Maximum Permissible Exposure Levels" as defined by the
FCC--lower than many everyday appliances and electronic devices around your
home, and are only transmitted briefly and periodically rather than
constantly.
What's the "first hop" technology being used to send?
Ex. Mobile Radio Frequencies? Mesh Radio Frequencies? Fixed Radio?
A: This is not AMI, this is AMR. There isn't any 'first hop', the data is
transmitted to a computer in a vehicle driving nearby and then the computer
is returned to the utility at the end of the day and directly connected to
the utility internal network and the meter readings are uploaded to utility
internal systems.
6)
Q: Is this unit considered to be a "Licensed" or "Unlicensed" transmitter by
the FCC?
A: The meters operate in the unlicensed 902-928 MHz frequency range and the
devices are regulated by the FCC. Itron's products are stringently evaluated
for RF safety and meet all Federal Communication Commission (FCC), Industry
Canada (IC), and Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers (IEEE)
standards. FCC OET Bulletin 65 supplement C Edition 01-01 (known as OET-65C)
provides further guidance on determining compliance for portable and mobile
devices.
7)
Q: Because each unit needs power to run itself, what is the unit's power
consumption rate per month?
Ex. 2 kW hours? 1kW hours?
Also, what would be the additional monthly cost of the power the unit needs
to function (based on the # of kW hours it needs to function) as I know you
guys just had a rate hike?
· A: The power to the meter components is supplied on the line side of the
meter. Therefore there is no cost difference associated with the running of
the AMR meter to your previous meter. We are enhancing our technology to
serve you better. Installing AMR meters allows us to continue to provide
safe, timely, accurate meter reading but at a lower cost. Controlling costs
is an important factor in determining Eversource rates.
8)
Q: Does the unit have a battery? What is the battery's life (in years)?
A: Yes there is a battery in the unit. The battery's life is the same as the
life of the meter which is 20 to 25 years..
For more information pertaining to the AMR C1SR Meter please visit the ITRON
website:
https://itron.com/na/resourcesAndSup...nter-FAQs.aspx
https://itron.com/na/resourcesAndSup...esource-Center.



Going wireless is easy; just open up the meter and cut all the wires out of
it. Job Does...... But it won't work anymore and but it is wireless. ;-))

Shaun

On Tuesday, July 7, 2015 at 11:23:01 AM UTC-4, wrote:
We received a notice from the power company that they intend to replace our two electric meters with the new wireless units. These meters emit short bursts of RF multiple times a day at a fairly substantial RF level. These transmissions are received by a "collector" which is apparently mounted on a utility pole on the street. This data is sent to a receiver and computer in a power company truck as it drives by and returned to their office where it's downloaded and bills are generated. Great for the power company but not for the meter readers. There are people all over the country up in arms over these things. Some have blocked installations and have been arrested for it.

While it's true that many of them are non technical people who just need something to jump up and down about my grand children sleep in the room adjacent to the meters and I think that I understand a little bit more about this, and it concerns me.

I asked the power company to provide me with more information and initially I was stonewalled until I contacted my state representative who then contacted them for me. Now they're kissing my ass with information but still telling me this is going to happen at some near point in the future.

Has anyone else had to deal with this and can you comment on my safety concerns? If it's true that there is no recourse to them making this modification, to increase the distance squared I've considered moving the meters to a utility pole which is on my property about 75 feet from the house. this would probably have to be at my expense I suspect.

The following is some information about these meters. Some of it I had requested and some extra which they threw in. I know that it's a lot to look at but if you can I'd really appreciate if you guys could please have a look at it and tell me what you think. I'm really concerned about this. Thanks very much. Lenny

Q. I understand these units operate in RF - Radio Frequency. Are they emitting short or
long range signals?
A: The signal from the meter is transmitted in the range 902-928 MHz (mega-hertz). The
reading capability is dependent on a number of variables and cannot be accurately assessed
without site specific information, but typically the signal may be received by the meter reading
equipment within 1/4 mile or so.
2)
Q: Regarding the signal, is it a "Bubble-Up" unit where it is transmitting all the time or is it
a "Wake-Up" unit where it transmits when it receives a signal?
A: The meter transmits reading data every 30 seconds in a brief milliseconds burst. The
manufacturer designed it that way to accommodate any reading schedule required by the
utility. The meter is a one-way communication device. The meter would not know when the
reading device was going to be in close proximity to the meter, therefore it needs to transmit
frequently so that it may be read whenever the reading device is nearby.
3)
Q: What frequency and wattage of transmit power is the unit operating at and at what
antennae gain?
Ex. Unit transmits at 900MHz with 1 watt of transmit power with antennae gain of 0.
A: The signal from the meter is transmitted in the range 902-928 mhz (mega-hertz) The
maximum power output for the endpoint devices is less than half a watt, while the maximum
power output of the collection device is less than 1 watt. In comparison, the average light bulb is
60 watts.
Frequency = 909 to 922 MHz
Transmit Power = 147 mW (21.67dBm)
Antenna Gain = 0 dB.
4)
Q: What's the antennae gain at peak power and what wattage is the peak power?
Ex. Antennae gain of 4.0 dBi for peak level power of 2.5 watts.
A: The maximum power output for the endpoint devices is less than half a watt, while the
maximum power output of the collection device is less than 1 watt. In comparison, the average
light bulb is 60 watts.
Frequency = 908 to 923.8 MHz
Transmit Power = 250 mW (24dBm)
Antenna Gain = 2.2 dB
5)
Q: How many times in total - both average and maximum - is the unit scheduled to transmit during a 24-hr time frame?
A: The meter transmits reading data every 30 seconds in a brief milliseconds burst - about 53 milliseconds referred to as the "duty cycle". The total RF transmission time in a 24 hour period is between 1.5 - 2.5 minutes depending on the type of meter and therefore data being transmitted. Signal levels are 1/10th of the "Maximum Permissible Exposure Levels" as defined by the FCC--lower than many everyday appliances and electronic devices around your home, and are only transmitted briefly and periodically rather than constantly.
What's the "first hop" technology being used to send?
Ex. Mobile Radio Frequencies? Mesh Radio Frequencies? Fixed Radio?
A: This is not AMI, this is AMR. There isn't any 'first hop', the data is transmitted to a computer in a vehicle driving nearby and then the computer is returned to the utility at the end of the day and directly connected to the utility internal network and the meter readings are uploaded to utility internal systems.
6)
Q: Is this unit considered to be a "Licensed" or "Unlicensed" transmitter by the FCC?
A: The meters operate in the unlicensed 902-928 MHz frequency range and the devices are regulated by the FCC. Itron's products are stringently evaluated for RF safety and meet all Federal Communication Commission (FCC), Industry Canada (IC), and Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers (IEEE) standards. FCC OET Bulletin 65 supplement C Edition 01-01 (known as OET-65C) provides further guidance on determining compliance for portable and mobile devices.
7)
Q: Because each unit needs power to run itself, what is the unit's power consumption rate per month?
Ex. 2 kW hours? 1kW hours?
Also, what would be the additional monthly cost of the power the unit needs to function (based on the # of kW hours it needs to function) as I know you guys just had a rate hike?
· A: The power to the meter components is supplied on the line side of the meter. Therefore there is no cost difference associated with the running of the AMR meter to your previous meter. We are enhancing our technology to serve you better. Installing AMR meters allows us to continue to provide safe, timely, accurate meter reading but at a lower cost. Controlling costs is an important factor in determining Eversource rates.
8)
Q: Does the unit have a battery? What is the battery's life (in years)?
A: Yes there is a battery in the unit. The battery's life is the same as the life of the meter which is 20 to 25 years..
For more information pertaining to the AMR C1SR Meter please visit the ITRON website:
https://itron.com/na/resourcesAndSup...nter-FAQs.aspx
https://itron.com/na/resourcesAndSup...esource-Center.

To answer your question Jon, yes I do use a cell phone, but rarely, my grandchildren are too young to have phones and no you won't find a bluetooth sticking out of my ear. It's also a matter of choice. I choose to use my cell phone and I've chosen not to use wireless or a bluetooth. What the power company is doing is taking away my choice and that's just wrong.

Here in New Hampshire we have a motto. If you Google our license plates you'll see it. It reads: "Live free or die". That means something to all of us. I don't mean to get into a political debate here but really when you boil it all down regardless of power level, in a free country what right do these people have to irradiate me against my will? Lenny

On 7/7/2015 10:22 AM, wrote:

Put this in context.
Driving your car is the most dangerous thing you do.
Forget about this.
Mikek

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com

wrote:


To answer your question Jon, yes I do use a cell phone, but rarely, my
grandchildren are too young to have phones and no you won't find a
bluetooth sticking out of my ear. It's also a matter of choice. I choose
to use my cell phone and I've chosen not to use wireless or a bluetooth.
What the power company is doing is taking away my choice and that's just
wrong.

I use a cell phone as little as possible. Not sure there really is any risk
to it, but I just don't know. The damn things barely work, anyway, the
sound quality is awful and the mike and speaker are so close together you
can either hear, or be heard, but not both at once.

But, compared to a cell phone, or the now-ubiquitous cell towers, and other
transmitters all over, the electric meters are REALLY a minimal
contribution.
Here in New Hampshire we have a motto. If you Google our license plates
you'll see it. It reads: "Live free or die". That means something to all
of us. I don't mean to get into a political debate here but really when
you boil it all down regardless of power level, in a free country what
right do these people have to irradiate me against my will? Lenny

Well, if you feel strongly enough about it, the only option is have the
electrc service taken out!

I think you are going WAY overboard with this "irradiate me" statement.
These meters are such a small source of RF, and quite intermittent too.
Do you have the right to shut off all cell towers when you happen to be near
them? How about broadcast radio and TV? How about various radars operating
all over? You may not be aware of how MUCH electromagnetic radiation there
is going on from all these sources, but there really is a lot.

Oh, you know those things near the doors of most retail shops that have
something to do with deterring ahoplifting? Are you aware these are also
radio transmitters that interrogate anti-theft devices in many of the
products you buy at the local store? Do the stores even bother to tell
anybody what those devices are? You bet they don't tell you!

What I'm trying to point out here is that these meters that you are so
concerned about are tiny, compared to the huge "irradiation" you are
recieving all day, from a bunch of other sources that you may be totally
unaware of.

Jon

Jon Elson: And wait till wireless electric transmission
becomes reality. Then what will people do??

On Tue, 7 Jul 2015 08:22:55 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

We received a notice from the power company that they intend to replace
our two electric meters with the new wireless units. These meters emit
short bursts of RF multiple times a day at a fairly substantial RF level.
(...)

It is very easy to prove that something is unsafe. All you need is
one "victim" and an attorney. Once established, there will soon be an
infinite supply of victims, all with their palms raised, demanding
their fair share of the proceeds.

It is impossible to prove that something is safe, because there will
always be contrived circumstances where it can be made to be unsafe.
For example, water is unsafe because at some levels of consumption,
you become water intoxicated or will drown. Perfectly safe devices
can also be made unsafe by doing something stupid with them, such as
ingesting the article.

For RF exposure, the problem is compounded by the wide variety of
symptoms allegedly caused by RF exposure ranging from constipation to
cancer. Google for "electro sensitive". RF is mostly a problem
because we can't see or smell it thus making exposure seem all the
more insidious.

For smart meters (and wi-fi), the magic buzzword is "electro smog".
Lots of alarmist studies and reports available such as:
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/34509513/ns/health-cancer/t/electrosmog-harming-our-health/
I'm only familiar with the cancer research, about which I wrote this
rant and an associated informal talk:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/Cellular%20and%20cancer.pdf
A bit more up to date graph:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/brain-CNS-cancer.jpg
Details (later) if you want them.

I could probably answer your RF related questions, but so can your
local electric utility. Many have web pages on the topic of smart
meters. A few have real people you can call or write to get
information. Try those first, as it would take many pages of writing
for me to produce a personalized answer. If you don't get results,
bug me (later) and I'll try to fill in the gaps. For northern
California:
http://www.pge.com/en/myhome/customerservice/smartmeter/index.page
http://www.pge.com/en/safety/systemworks/rf/faq/index.page


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

In California, the Public Utilities Commission has established rules for
those wishing to opt out of "Smart Meters" and stay with analog meters.
A one time $75 charge and then $10/month for 3 years. After
that there's no extra charge. (The $75 +$10/month covers both the
wireless electric and natural gas meters - you don't pay $150 + 20/mo
if you have both.) The charge is meant to cover the added cost of
someone coming to your residence every other month to read the meters.



On 7/7/2015 8:22 AM, wrote:
We received a notice from the power company that they intend to replace our two electric meters with the new wireless units. These meters emit short bursts of RF multiple times a day at a fairly substantial RF level. These transmissions are received by a "collector" which is apparently mounted on a utility pole on the street. This data is sent to a receiver and computer in a power company truck as it drives by and returned to their office where it's downloaded and bills are generated. Great for the power company but not for the meter readers. There are people all over the country up in arms over these things. Some have blocked installations and have been arrested for it.

While it's true that many of them are non technical people who just need something to jump up and down about my grand children sleep in the room adjacent to the meters and I think that I understand a little bit more about this, and it concerns me.

I asked the power company to provide me with more information and initially I was stonewalled until I contacted my state representative who then contacted them for me. Now they're kissing my ass with information but still telling me this is going to happen at some near point in the future.

Has anyone else had to deal with this and can you comment on my safety concerns? If it's true that there is no recourse to them making this modification, to increase the distance squared I've considered moving the meters to a utility pole which is on my property about 75 feet from the house. this would probably have to be at my expense I suspect.

The following is some information about these meters. Some of it I had requested and some extra which they threw in. I know that it's a lot to look at but if you can I'd really appreciate if you guys could please have a look at it and tell me what you think. I'm really concerned about this. Thanks very much. Lenny

Q. I understand these units operate in RF - Radio Frequency. Are they emitting short or
long range signals?
A: The signal from the meter is transmitted in the range 902-928 MHz (mega-hertz). The
reading capability is dependent on a number of variables and cannot be accurately assessed
without site specific information, but typically the signal may be received by the meter reading
equipment within 1/4 mile or so.
2)
Q: Regarding the signal, is it a "Bubble-Up" unit where it is transmitting all the time or is it
a "Wake-Up" unit where it transmits when it receives a signal?
A: The meter transmits reading data every 30 seconds in a brief milliseconds burst. The
manufacturer designed it that way to accommodate any reading schedule required by the
utility. The meter is a one-way communication device. The meter would not know when the
reading device was going to be in close proximity to the meter, therefore it needs to transmit
frequently so that it may be read whenever the reading device is nearby.
3)
Q: What frequency and wattage of transmit power is the unit operating at and at what
antennae gain?
Ex. Unit transmits at 900MHz with 1 watt of transmit power with antennae gain of 0.
A: The signal from the meter is transmitted in the range 902-928 mhz (mega-hertz) The
maximum power output for the endpoint devices is less than half a watt, while the maximum
power output of the collection device is less than 1 watt. In comparison, the average light bulb is
60 watts.
Frequency = 909 to 922 MHz
Transmit Power = 147 mW (21.67dBm)
Antenna Gain = 0 dB.
4)
Q: What's the antennae gain at peak power and what wattage is the peak power?
Ex. Antennae gain of 4.0 dBi for peak level power of 2.5 watts.
A: The maximum power output for the endpoint devices is less than half a watt, while the
maximum power output of the collection device is less than 1 watt. In comparison, the average
light bulb is 60 watts.
Frequency = 908 to 923.8 MHz
Transmit Power = 250 mW (24dBm)
Antenna Gain = 2.2 dB
5)
Q: How many times in total - both average and maximum - is the unit scheduled to transmit during a 24-hr time frame?
A: The meter transmits reading data every 30 seconds in a brief milliseconds burst - about 53 milliseconds referred to as the "duty cycle". The total RF transmission time in a 24 hour period is between 1.5 - 2.5 minutes depending on the type of meter and therefore data being transmitted. Signal levels are 1/10th of the "Maximum Permissible Exposure Levels" as defined by the FCC--lower than many everyday appliances and electronic devices around your home, and are only transmitted briefly and periodically rather than constantly.
What's the "first hop" technology being used to send?
Ex. Mobile Radio Frequencies? Mesh Radio Frequencies? Fixed Radio?
A: This is not AMI, this is AMR. There isn't any 'first hop', the data is transmitted to a computer in a vehicle driving nearby and then the computer is returned to the utility at the end of the day and directly connected to the utility internal network and the meter readings are uploaded to utility internal systems.
6)
Q: Is this unit considered to be a "Licensed" or "Unlicensed" transmitter by the FCC?
A: The meters operate in the unlicensed 902-928 MHz frequency range and the devices are regulated by the FCC. Itron's products are stringently evaluated for RF safety and meet all Federal Communication Commission (FCC), Industry Canada (IC), and Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers (IEEE) standards. FCC OET Bulletin 65 supplement C Edition 01-01 (known as OET-65C) provides further guidance on determining compliance for portable and mobile devices.
7)
Q: Because each unit needs power to run itself, what is the unit's power consumption rate per month?
Ex. 2 kW hours? 1kW hours?
Also, what would be the additional monthly cost of the power the unit needs to function (based on the # of kW hours it needs to function) as I know you guys just had a rate hike?
· A: The power to the meter components is supplied on the line side of the meter. Therefore there is no cost difference associated with the running of the AMR meter to your previous meter. We are enhancing our technology to serve you better. Installing AMR meters allows us to continue to provide safe, timely, accurate meter reading but at a lower cost. Controlling costs is an important factor in determining Eversource rates.
8)
Q: Does the unit have a battery? What is the battery's life (in years)?
A: Yes there is a battery in the unit. The battery's life is the same as the life of the meter which is 20 to 25 years..
For more information pertaining to the AMR C1SR Meter please visit the ITRON website:
https://itron.com/na/resourcesAndSup...nter-FAQs.aspx
https://itron.com/na/resourcesAndSup...esource-Center.

On 7/9/2015 9:11 AM, Bennett wrote:
In California, the Public Utilities Commission has established rules for
those wishing to opt out of "Smart Meters" and stay with analog meters.
A one time $75 charge and then $10/month for 3 years. After
that there's no extra charge. (The $75 +$10/month covers both the
wireless electric and natural gas meters - you don't pay $150 + 20/mo
if you have both.) The charge is meant to cover the added cost of
someone coming to your residence every other month to read the meters.


Sounds rather expensive given that my neighbor's wireless meter
is about 10 feet further from the bedroom than mine...and the
other neighbor's wireless meter is about 60 feet closer to my
bedroom than mine...and I spend most of my time three feet
from a wireless router.

When people start bitching about the dangers of electric power lines,
I like to ask them if they spend a third of their life under
an electric blanket.
That shuts most of them up really quickly.

On Thu, 9 Jul 2015 05:05:32 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
Jon Elson: And wait till wireless electric transmission
becomes reality. Then what will people do??

Wouldn't it be GREAT if Tesla had been born one century later?

Jonesy

Electric meters are likely a Zigbee (peer to peer) network and eventually communicate via a cell phone data stream. The meters are TWO-WAY. The power company can disconnect power remotely.

Water meters have batteries. Supposedly they are "truck" activated and only talk back when prompted. Yes, they have a battery.

The gas meters, I don;t know, but they may operate the same way as the water meters. They contain batteries.

Battery life is estimated to be about 7 to 10 years as I understand it.

On Thu, 9 Jul 2015 15:51:49 -0700 (PDT), "Ron D."
wrote:

Electric meters are likely a Zigbee (peer to peer) network and eventually communicate via a cell phone data stream. The meters are TWO-WAY. The power company can disconnect power remotely.

Water meters have batteries. Supposedly they are "truck" activated and only talk back when prompted. Yes, they have a battery.

The gas meters, I don;t know, but they may operate the same way as the water meters. They contain batteries.

Battery life is estimated to be about 7 to 10 years as I understand it.
I have a radio connected electric meter here in WA state and power
cannot be disconnected except by someone doing something at the meter
itself. I know this because I needed power disconnected to do some
work where the lines from the meter base enter the shop. PSE sent out
someone to disconnect the power and then re-connect it the next day
after I had done the work. No charge for the service. I suppose it is
possible that they have upgraded the meter without me knowing but as I
recall when they switched me from the old way of using meter readers
to the new fangled radio reporting they had to shut off the power.
They sent us a letter informing us of the time window when we would be
losing power for a short time period. This has not happened again.
Eric

On Thu, 9 Jul 2015 15:51:49 -0700 (PDT), "Ron D."
wrote:

Electric meters are likely a Zigbee (peer to peer) network and eventually
communicate via a cell phone data stream.

Not quite. The power meters typically use 900 MHz spread spectrum to
communicated with each other using a store and forward mesh network
system. Eventually, the meter reading is delivered through a series
of hops by other meters to an access point radio that is connected to
the internet. From there, the data goes to the utility company
computah or service company.

Some smart meters have a built in Zigbee radio, designed to
communicate with subscriber owned energy monitors. However, there are
few approved devices and the local utility (PG&E) doesn't seem
interested in expanding the selection:
http://www.pge.com/en/myhome/saveenergymoney/rebates/han/validateddevice/index.page
http://www.aztechmeter.com
I'm underwhelmed.

The meters are TWO-WAY.

Correct. Note that they are also simplex radios, that can either
transmit or receive, but not at the same time.

The power company can disconnect power remotely.

Most can do this. Allegedly, it's to deal with turning the power
on/off when a customer relocates. It saves a truck roll for connects
and disconnects. There are numerous anecdotes of people having their
power disconnected for non-payment, but the few where details were
supplied, were by a truck roll to recover the meter, not by a remote
disconnect. However, this may change in the future.

Water meters have batteries. Supposedly they are "truck" activated
and only talk back when prompted. Yes, they have a battery.

Both the power and gas meters have batteries. 10 years is the nominal
expected life from lithium-thionyl chloride (LTC) batteries. However,
these batteries are non-rechargeable and will need to be replaced
eventually. Fortunately, newer batteries are rechargeable and can
allegedly last 20 years.
http://www.tadiranbat.com/index.php/tli-series-rechargeable
http://www.tadiranbatteries.de/pdf/applications/battery-concepts-for-smart-utility-meters.pdf
I don't know they plan to handle the battery replacement or recharge
problem.

The gas meters, I don;t know, but they may operate the same way as
the water meters. They contain batteries.

Yep and also not rechargeable. Locally, the gas meters run in the
commercial UHF frequency range (450-470 MHz) and do NOT use spread
spectrum. I know the frequencies, but I'm not talking.

Battery life is estimated to be about 7 to 10 years as I understand it.

The battery life depends on how close to the internet connected radio
the smart meter is located. If it's quite close, it will be doing the
store and forward repeater dance for a large number of other smart
meters located further away. That will burn more power running the
transmitter, and produce a shorter battery life. Smart meters that
are further away, and don't do much store and forward repeating, will
last much longer.

More details:
http://www.pge.com/en/safety/systemworks/rf/faq/index.page
http://www.pge.com/en/safety/systemworks/rf/facts/index.page
http://www.pge.com/en/safety/systemworks/rf/ccst/index.page
http://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/shared/edusafety/systemworks/rfsafety/rf_summary_discussion_rat2.pdf
http://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/shared/edusafety/systemworks/rfsafety/amr_rf_analysis_report_2005.pdf
http://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/shared/edusafety/systemworks/rfsafety/rf_fields_supplemental_report_2008.pdf
etc...


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

response to Jeff Re Electric meters are likely a Zigbee (peer to peer) network and eventually
communicate via a cell phone data stream.

Quote=Jeff

Not quite. The power meters typically use 900 MHz spread spectrum to
communicated with each other using a store and forward mesh network
system. Eventually, the meter reading is delivered through a series
of hops by other meters to an access point radio that is connected to
the internet. From there, the data goes to the utility company
computah or service company.

Some smart meters have a built in Zigbee radio, designed to
communicate with subscriber owned energy monitors. However, there are
few approved devices and the local utility (PG&E) doesn't seem
interested in expanding the selection:
http://www.pge.com/en/myhome/saveenergymoney/rebates/han/validateddevice/index.page
http://www.aztechmeter.com
I'm underwhelmed.

End Quote

==

http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1276705

I believe in our area the systems that reduced demand by allowing the utility to shut off the AC and/or electric hot water have been upgraded/converted to the same electric meter two-way system. We also have the ability to track demand, but I've not signed up.

Previously those demand based systems were radio based.

On Fri, 10 Jul 2015 10:26:34 -0700 (PDT), "Ron D."
wrote:

http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1276705
I believe in our area the systems that reduced demand by allowing the utility
to shut off the AC and/or electric hot water have been upgraded/converted
to the same electric meter two-way system.

Yep. That's another use for the zigbee radio in the smartmeter.
I'm not sure how the local utility (PG&E) does load shedding or
"demand response".
http://www.pge.com/en/mybusiness/save/energymanagement/index.page
For example, for air conditioning, they off these:
http://www.pge.com/en/myhome/saveenergymoney/plans/smartac/doihavesmartac/index.page
but I don't have a clue how they communicate.

Previously those demand based systems were radio based.

We also have the ability to
track demand, but I've not signed up.

I signed up. The web pile produces a tolerable graph of charges and
usage over time. What irritates me is that every time I impliment
some manner of energy savings, the savings are offset by a
corresponding increase in rates. Here's a spreadsheet I threw
together of my monthly costs and usage from 6/2008 to 8/2014:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/PGE-daily-2012-06-22.jpg
Note the decreasing trend line in usage, and the almost flat trendline
in the cost graph. I dropped my usage by 25%, but the charges remaind
the same. Grrrr...




--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Lenny, I gotta admit that I am not quite with you on this. Just working on TVs we get bombarded. Take the aux input to an audio amp and touch your finger on it, you hear hum. So there's no current in it, and actually with RF there could be, but all the radio staitons with 50,000 watts, TV transmaitters up in the megawatts and all linds of other ****, we are so bambarded it is ridiculous.

I do respect your choice to endeavor to limit further exposure though. And perhaps it is time for the proverbial tinfoil hat. Not for you, but for the meter. BLocking the RF should force their hand somehow, and really there is no telling what their reaction will be. Concievably, in a place with a reall asshole government you might be charged with theft of service, which is a felony in most places these days.

I object to these meters on different grounds. First of all there is no accountability. they put in "smart reaad" water meters around here recently. I have heard horror stories about these from people in Canada already. The go hayware. The water company here is already notorious for overcharging, and the water bill is married to the house here. If the bill isn't paid, even if it is in error and they bil you $100,000 for three months of water for a house with two people living in it and no leaks, you gotta pay it. And it is insidious because a title search might not show a water bill because they don't bother to file a ien. bottom line, unitl the bill is paid, there will NEVER be water in that house again, ever. It has caused alot of **** around here.

But at least in the old days you could read your own meter. Our electric meters are still the old type. I can SEE when something is pullling power. With the old water meter I could see if there was a leak. If you suspect a leak you could just make it a point not to use any water for a time and see if the meter moves. I don't like not having that, and there is no accountability.

And let me tell you, on the political fora they make a big thing about vote fraud. The liberals seem to ant you to be able to vote without ID or anything, just walk in there I gues, as many times as you feel like, and the republicans claim there is so much vote fraud that they lose elections. **** it all because voters do not mean a ****ing thing because there is no paper trail. A few years ago anonymous claimed to have intercepted the data stream from the voting machines and indeed there was an irregular delay in that stream. So I don't care and I won't even bothr to vote because the people who wrote that software and/or can manipulate it have more to do with the outcome of an election than voters.

So now, we have an invisible system of keeping track of how n=much utilities you use. This gives an opportunity for theft. Did anyne notice what the banks did in 2008 ? That money went somewhere. Everybodt lost, except some gained. Oh yes, and then financial experts tell me it ain't so, so what that means is the money that is gone WAS NEVER THERE. If the banks will oie, and that is what it is, you think the electric company won't ? How about the phone company ? What are 900 lines ? They had sex lines forever, but you had to use a credit card. The 900 lines are so that anyone can make those calls from yuor phone and stick you with the bill. This happened to me, but my Father figured a way out of it. Told then the person who made those calls was under 18. Old and treacherous won over young and spunky.

But you cannot do that with utilities.

Next, they wwant you to autopay them from your bank account. Now you don't even see the bill. So if they bill you fifty grand in "error" they get to use that money for free all the time it takes you to sue them to get it back.. Plus if your bank account goes negative, they are not going to pay the overdraft charges.

We are back to the banks. I have seen people pay $500 for a $5 overdraft. Why the **** did the bank simply decline the payout ? Simple, because they make more money that way. This is how business is done these days. ANd now you HAVE to stay straight wiht the banks because so many companies will only pay by direct deposit. Or they will give you a prepaid debit card that is costs five or ten bucks in fees every time you use it. who gets that money ?

So, why all the push on to ake cash and checks out of the picture ? CONTROL.. They don't ant you to be able to buy a bag of weed. Shut down these damn garage sales where people pay no taxes. There are countries now that have almost eliminated cash. I wonder, do they have garage sales when they accumulate a bunch of stuff or is there simply no alternative to throwing it away ?

I am not saying it is a conspiracy but they do all seem to think alike and act accordingly, and in concert for their own profit. Not a conspiracy, buit one hell of a cooperation.

For electricity, bring me batteries every month. For water, bring the truck and fill my tank every once in a whole, same with gas. In fact that is how it was with coal furnaces, and to this day oil furnaces.

Anyway, now we go to the dark side. **** legal anymore because the laws are made by our enemies. Now that this is established we can move in to effective solutions. I know a racist ex-cop. Well maybe not all that racist, but he definitely did not like rap. He would take a stun gun to the radio antenna of the cars belonging to "cooties" as he called them. Yeah, that radio that went "BOOM mufuka BOOM mufuka BOOM mufuka" don't do that no mo. 9that guy killed more people than he can count)

A normal stun gun will penetrate most insulation.

I warn you now, you can probably get away with this once or twice, but after they replace the meter a few times they will investiigate and there will be evidence and you might be arrested. If you got a good lawyer you ight set a precedent. You destroyed someone else's property but they put in on your property without your permission, at least your EXPLICIT permission, which is a legal standard for many other things. It depends on where you are. I think in certain states like Arizona you would do well. And "Live free or die" is only a motto. Pannsylvania's state motto is "Virtue, libert and independence" but it was there that Dr Rodriguez was shot down in court summarily when he tried to get a variance on a state law prohibiting him from discussing the effects of fracking chemicals on his patients kidneys. He is a nephrlogist and has patients with kidney failure directly caused by exposure to fracking chemicals.

This i s our governemnt and it is like that at the federal level as well. Ever hear of the "Monsanto protection act" ? this is one of the richest families who woned alot of slaves back before the civil war. You think subsequent generations have been rehabilitated ? And this while they are trying to get the stars and bars banned. They cannot ban it, but they sure as hell can not use it. Just like pot. It will be legal but since you'll have to take a drug test to get a job flipping burgers, nobodyy will smoke it because they won't be able to afford it.

I am describing how corporate is taking over this country, and has been doing so for a long time. Seriously, I do not agree with your grounds for abjecting to these meters, but I do agree with the objection onb my own grounds which I hope are pretty clear now.

And sorry for the typos. My eyesight is that bad. It is getting almost impossible to work.

Allodoxaphobia wrote:

On Thu, 9 Jul 2015 05:05:32 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
Jon Elson: And wait till wireless electric transmission
becomes reality. Then what will people do??

Wouldn't it be GREAT if Tesla had been born one century later?


Bull****. The power losses involved make it a fool's dream.

Jon Elson wrote:

wrote:

To answer your question Jon, yes I do use a cell phone, but rarely, my
grandchildren are too young to have phones and no you won't find a
bluetooth sticking out of my ear. It's also a matter of choice. I choose
to use my cell phone and I've chosen not to use wireless or a bluetooth.
What the power company is doing is taking away my choice and that's just
wrong.

I use a cell phone as little as possible. Not sure there really is any risk
to it, but I just don't know. The damn things barely work, anyway, the
sound quality is awful and the mike and speaker are so close together you
can either hear, or be heard, but not both at once.

But, compared to a cell phone, or the now-ubiquitous cell towers, and other
transmitters all over, the electric meters are REALLY a minimal
contribution.
Here in New Hampshire we have a motto. If you Google our license plates
you'll see it. It reads: "Live free or die". That means something to all
of us. I don't mean to get into a political debate here but really when
you boil it all down regardless of power level, in a free country what
right do these people have to irradiate me against my will? Lenny

Well, if you feel strongly enough about it, the only option is have the
electrc service taken out!

I think you are going WAY overboard with this "irradiate me" statement.
These meters are such a small source of RF, and quite intermittent too.
Do you have the right to shut off all cell towers when you happen to be near
them? How about broadcast radio and TV? How about various radars operating
all over? You may not be aware of how MUCH electromagnetic radiation there
is going on from all these sources, but there really is a lot.

Oh, you know those things near the doors of most retail shops that have
something to do with deterring ahoplifting? Are you aware these are also
radio transmitters that interrogate anti-theft devices in many of the
products you buy at the local store? Do the stores even bother to tell
anybody what those devices are? You bet they don't tell you!

What I'm trying to point out here is that these meters that you are so
concerned about are tiny, compared to the huge "irradiation" you are
recieving all day, from a bunch of other sources that you may be totally
unaware of.


The sun showers the earth with a wide spectrum of RF.

On Wed, 22 Jul 2015, Michael A. Terrell wrote:


Allodoxaphobia wrote:

On Thu, 9 Jul 2015 05:05:32 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
Jon Elson: And wait till wireless electric transmission
becomes reality. Then what will people do??

Wouldn't it be GREAT if Tesla had been born one century later?


Bull****. The power losses involved make it a fool's dream.

I thought that was the part that he didn't reveal, the secret that he
took to the grave (or perhaps was "suppressed by the authorities or
companies") which made the whole system actually work.

Michael

Actually it is as impractical, exactly as the conspiracy thorists state.

You got a generator, OK anyone gets the machine they canatap the power.

OK, the generator gets the power froom the universe somehow, some **** like that.

OK, who maintains the generator ? Someone has to be paid. Whom ? If I use 100 times the electricity someone else does, is it fair that I pay the same total amount ?

Even if a way was found to get around the losses and everything else, and even somehow meter it (which would be impossible to enforce) what of the environment ? You think the plants are going to grow just fine with all that power going through them all the time ?

The bigger issue is the invasivness of the minute by minute monitoring the
meters provide. Turns out it's a great way to be Big Brother.

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

"Ron D." writes:

Electric meters are likely a Zigbee (peer to peer) network and eventually communicate via a cell phone data stream. The meters are TWO-WAY. The power company can disconnect power remotely.

Water meters have batteries. Supposedly they are "truck" activated and only talk back when prompted. Yes, they have a battery.

The gas meters, I don;t know, but they may operate the same way as the water meters. They contain batteries.

The big stupidity in PGE-land is while the line-powered KWH
meters do peer-to-peer to the node with cell backhaul; the gas
meters, on battery power, must talk straight to a node...needing
far more power.
--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433