Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems.

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Default Is this an ink flow sensor? (Ink Jet printer)

I'm trying to troubleshoot an error with an HP ink jet printer (Photosmart
3210) that says "Ink System Failure". All other components seem functional.

In the printer there is a small PCB with a few soldered components that
appear to sense ink flow or pressure. It is in series with the pump output.

http://i48.tinypic.com/o8xz84.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/r76kib.jpg

How does this work? Are these 6 LEDs and photodiodes? Just detecting the
presence of ink doesn't seem likely. Wouldn't movement or pressure be what is
detected?

What does this PCB do and how does it do it?

Thanks.

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Default Is this an ink flow sensor? (Ink Jet printer)

Upon closer examination:

http://i50.tinypic.com/2vdoa4m.jpg

it looks like the printer controller is testing for continuity of the ink.
Could this be a simple presence / absence of ink in these tubes? I suspect
that some ink residue has built up on some of these tiny probes which may be
indicating no ink and generating this error.

Ideas?

Thanks.

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Default Is this an ink flow sensor? (Ink Jet printer)

DaveC wrote:
I'm trying to troubleshoot an error with an HP ink jet printer
(Photosmart 3210) that says "Ink System Failure". All other
components seem functional.

In the printer there is a small PCB with a few soldered
components
that appear to sense ink flow or pressure. It is in series with
the
pump output.

http://i48.tinypic.com/o8xz84.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/r76kib.jpg

How does this work? Are these 6 LEDs and photodiodes? Just
detecting
the presence of ink doesn't seem likely. Wouldn't movement or
pressure be what is detected?

What does this PCB do and how does it do it?

Thanks.


If you're talking about the tiny black rectangular parts numbered
R1-R6, they are resistors.


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Default Is this an ink flow sensor? (Ink Jet printer)

"pimpom" wrote in message ...
DaveC wrote:
I'm trying to troubleshoot an error with an HP ink jet printer
(Photosmart 3210) that says "Ink System Failure". All other
components seem functional.

In the printer there is a small PCB with a few soldered components
that appear to sense ink flow or pressure. It is in series with the
pump output.

http://i48.tinypic.com/o8xz84.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/r76kib.jpg

How does this work? Are these 6 LEDs and photodiodes? Just detecting
the presence of ink doesn't seem likely. Wouldn't movement or
pressure be what is detected?

What does this PCB do and how does it do it?

Thanks.


If you're talking about the tiny black rectangular parts numbered R1-R6, they are resistors.


I had a HP inkjet fax with several hundred MB of driver bloatware.
It refused to print B/W fax and complained colour cartridge was empty.
It has a separate B/W cartridge that was full. Sounds like their firmware
and software was written by sales people.

M


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Default Is this an ink flow sensor? (Ink Jet printer)

On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 20:56:53 -0800, DaveC wrote:

I'm trying to troubleshoot an error with an HP ink jet printer (Photosmart
3210) that says "Ink System Failure". All other components seem functional.

In the printer there is a small PCB with a few soldered components that
appear to sense ink flow or pressure. It is in series with the pump output.

http://i48.tinypic.com/o8xz84.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/r76kib.jpg

How does this work? Are these 6 LEDs and photodiodes? Just detecting the
presence of ink doesn't seem likely. Wouldn't movement or pressure be what is
detected?

What does this PCB do and how does it do it?


I read somewhere that inkjet printers have a storage compartment for
excess ink lost during printing and head cleaning and if that becomes
full then the printer won't function. Never tore one apart to see if
this was true.


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Default Is this an ink flow sensor? (Ink Jet printer)



I had a HP inkjet fax with several hundred MB of driver bloatware.
It refused to print B/W fax and complained colour cartridge was empty.
It has a separate B/W cartridge that was full. Sounds like their firmware
and software was written by sales people.


I have a Kodak printer in which the "print head" is a separate assemply from
the ink carts.

I note that there is a "chip" in each cartridge that, I ASSume, has a serial
number.

I just printed out a test page in which the cartriges 20 digit serial number
is printed.

The software also knows have many cartiidges of each type it has used and
the number of drops of ink (of each color) for this set of ink cartridges
AND for the print heads.

Part of that "bloatware" seems to be to get you to spring for a new
cartridge when the software "decides" it should be low on ink rather than
waiting for the user to decide. That seems to be a wave of the future.
(Lexmart cartridges for newer printers also seem to be "smart."

Re-cyclers can re-fill the cartridges since you are unlikely to get your
old cartridge back.

But if you just put more ink into your own cartridge, the software (which
tracks serial numbers) will still refuse to use it.

Were I not so lazy I would run experiments in which I would, for example,
switch "id chips" between a black cartridge and a color cartridge. Or
re-install the driver software to see whether the memory of the old
cartridges has been extinguished.





M




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Default Is this an ink flow sensor? (Ink Jet printer)

On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 09:15:27 -0500, "John Gilmer"
wrote:



Were I not so lazy I would run experiments in which I would, for example,
switch "id chips" between a black cartridge and a color cartridge. Or
re-install the driver software to see whether the memory of the old
cartridges has been extinguished.





M



You can reset the memory on some cartridges.

http://www.misterinkjet.com/hpreset.htm

You tube video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVR2dHebmTI

Google reset memory for your model and you can probably find specific
instructions.
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Default Is this an ink flow sensor? (Ink Jet printer)

I note that HP drivers here switch to "color" very often when printing
B&W documents, I manually check before each print run now. PITA.
I did have some HP carts reloaded for my mom's home printer-copier,
which she uses to keep her medical bills straight (at age 82, she's
not into the net)
It runs, but shows the ink as low constantly. Popping open one cart
revealed that its definition of low is NOT my definition of low.

Sounds like we need a "truth in printing" rule from the CPSC, instead
of them going after things like fireworks and lawnmowers.

Steve
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Default Is this an ink flow sensor? (Ink Jet printer)

I read somewhere that inkjet printers have a storage compartment for
excess ink lost during printing and head cleaning and if that becomes
full then the printer won't function. Never tore one apart to see if
this was true.


I can see this reservoir. It has one side covered by a translucent plastic
film. It's nearly empty.

And the "full" indication is calculated from the number of cycles it goes
through, not a sensor (there's no sensor on the reservoir). This is one of
the counters you can see in the service menu of the firmware (as well as
total pages printed).

Can anyone help me identify the part in the photographs and their function?

Thanks,

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Default Is this an ink flow sensor? (Ink Jet printer)

The pics don't show what's mounted to the side of the PCB that the hose
fittings are on. I realize that the separate parts weren't meant to be
separated.

Can you see a component on the end of the board, at the opposite end from
the wiring connector?

It looks as though there are components mounted on that side, marked as
positions 1 thru 6.

If those 6 pairs of solder pads are connected to 6 devices/components inside
the hose connectors, I wouldn't even have a WAG what they might be.

It looks a lot like MNOS more needlessly overcomplicated *crap* designed
into almost everything being made nowadays.

--
Cheers,
WB
..............


"DaveC" wrote in message
...
I'm trying to troubleshoot an error with an HP ink jet printer (Photosmart
3210) that says "Ink System Failure". All other components seem
functional.

In the printer there is a small PCB with a few soldered components that
appear to sense ink flow or pressure. It is in series with the pump
output.

http://i48.tinypic.com/o8xz84.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/r76kib.jpg

How does this work? Are these 6 LEDs and photodiodes? Just detecting the
presence of ink doesn't seem likely. Wouldn't movement or pressure be what
is
detected?

What does this PCB do and how does it do it?

Thanks.




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Default Is this an ink flow sensor? (Ink Jet printer)

If those 6 pairs of solder pads are connected to 6 devices/components inside
the hose connectors, I wouldn't even have a WAG what they might be.


Those 6 pairs of solder pads connect to the 6 pairs of heavy wires (I think
they're probes, not simple conductors) that terminate inside the plastic ink
manifold:

http://i50.tinypic.com/2vdoa4m.jpg

If there were indeed components inside the manifold (LEDs, photodiodes, etc.)
they would be much finer wires rather than these large conductors.

I suspect these are probes that detect the impedance of the ink when it is
present in each of the manifold's ducts. My guess is that it's a go/no-go
indicator of whether the pump has failed or an ink supply is empty (although
I think there are other sensors to detect this in the cartridge) or a hose is
plugged up.

It looks a lot like MNOS more needlessly overcomplicated *crap* designed
into almost everything being made nowadays.

[WB]

Indeed, any technology in the hardware to boost HP's (and other
manufacturer's as well) bottom line from maximum ink sales.

Thanks for your reply.

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Default Is this an ink flow sensor? (Ink Jet printer)

On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 09:15:27 -0500, John Gilmer wrote:

trimmed:

I just printed out a test page in which the cartriges 20 digit serial
number is printed.

The software also knows have many cartiidges of each type it has used
and the number of drops of ink (of each color) for this set of ink
cartridges AND for the print heads.

Part of that "bloatware" seems to be to get you to spring for a new
cartridge when the software "decides" it should be low on ink rather
than waiting for the user to decide. That seems to be a wave of the
future. (Lexmart cartridges for newer printers also seem to be "smart."


Trimmed:

Were I not so lazy I would run experiments in which I would, for
example, switch "id chips" between a black cartridge and a color
cartridge. Or re-install the driver software to see whether the memory
of the old cartridges has been extinguished.



This is from the wonderful world of Epson it is so well known that you can
buy cartridge reset devices to reset the counter chips imbedded in their
cartidges. It looks like the new generation of these chips are using
serial numbers to keep you from being able to reset the chip.

An even dirtier anti consumer activity by Epson than they have done
prevously.

It sounds like the "Kodak" printer is actually an Epson in disguise since
thier sales are going away because of this.

It's a good reason to always aviod anything from Epson and spread the word
about them to kill all of their business as they deserve for this very
dirty anti consumer trick.

Forcing the throw away of up to half full cartridges is a real crime
aganst the customer!

Gnack
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Default Is this an ink flow sensor? (Ink Jet printer)

On a sunny day (Thu, 28 Jan 2010 13:26:53 -0600) it happened Gnack Nol
wrote in
:

On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 09:15:27 -0500, John Gilmer wrote:

trimmed:

I just printed out a test page in which the cartriges 20 digit serial
number is printed.

The software also knows have many cartiidges of each type it has used
and the number of drops of ink (of each color) for this set of ink
cartridges AND for the print heads.

Part of that "bloatware" seems to be to get you to spring for a new
cartridge when the software "decides" it should be low on ink rather
than waiting for the user to decide. That seems to be a wave of the
future. (Lexmart cartridges for newer printers also seem to be "smart."


Trimmed:

Were I not so lazy I would run experiments in which I would, for
example, switch "id chips" between a black cartridge and a color
cartridge. Or re-install the driver software to see whether the memory
of the old cartridges has been extinguished.



This is from the wonderful world of Epson it is so well known that you can
buy cartridge reset devices to reset the counter chips imbedded in their
cartidges. It looks like the new generation of these chips are using
serial numbers to keep you from being able to reset the chip.

An even dirtier anti consumer activity by Epson than they have done
prevously.

It sounds like the "Kodak" printer is actually an Epson in disguise since
thier sales are going away because of this.

It's a good reason to always aviod anything from Epson and spread the word
about them to kill all of their business as they deserve for this very
dirty anti consumer trick.

Forcing the throw away of up to half full cartridges is a real crime
aganst the customer!

Gnack


Bull, my Epson works great with
https://www.continuousink.com/home.html
the cartridges that come with it always report full :-)



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Default Is this an ink flow sensor? (Ink Jet printer)

On a sunny day (Thu, 28 Jan 2010 11:08:14 -0800) it happened DaveC
wrote in
:

If those 6 pairs of solder pads are connected to 6 devices/components inside
the hose connectors, I wouldn't even have a WAG what they might be.


Those 6 pairs of solder pads connect to the 6 pairs of heavy wires (I think
they're probes, not simple conductors) that terminate inside the plastic ink
manifold:

http://i50.tinypic.com/2vdoa4m.jpg

If there were indeed components inside the manifold (LEDs, photodiodes, etc.)
they would be much finer wires rather than these large conductors.

I suspect these are probes that detect the impedance of the ink when it is
present in each of the manifold's ducts. My guess is that it's a go/no-go
indicator of whether the pump has failed or an ink supply is empty (although
I think there are other sensors to detect this in the cartridge) or a hose is
plugged up.

It looks a lot like MNOS more needlessly overcomplicated *crap* designed
into almost everything being made nowadays.

[WB]

Indeed, any technology in the hardware to boost HP's (and other
manufacturer's as well) bottom line from maximum ink sales.

Thanks for your reply.


Have you actually looked for the repair manual for that printer online?
I found the one for my Epson R200 without much problems.
All parts are listed...

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Default Is this an ink flow sensor? (Ink Jet printer)

On 1/27/2010 10:56 PM, DaveC wrote:
I'm trying to troubleshoot an error with an HP ink jet printer (Photosmart
3210) that says "Ink System Failure". All other components seem functional.

In the printer there is a small PCB with a few soldered components that
appear to sense ink flow or pressure. It is in series with the pump output.

http://i48.tinypic.com/o8xz84.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/r76kib.jpg

How does this work? Are these 6 LEDs and photodiodes? Just detecting the
presence of ink doesn't seem likely. Wouldn't movement or pressure be what is
detected?

What does this PCB do and how does it do it?

Thanks.


Two things: Each is its own separate process.

1) Reset the system by holding down the OK, Cancel, Black, and Color
buttons down at the same time and turn the 3310 off. Keep holding
the buttons down until the printer shuts off and the turn it back
on. You will have to turn the printer off twice and then it will
recalibrate. Make sure you have new cartridge in the printer so that
it can reset.

2) There is a patch available for your printer that might fix the
the problem. The link below is to HP's site.

http://tinyurl.com/7jqdc3




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Default Is this an ink flow sensor? (Ink Jet printer)

On 1/27/2010 10:56 PM, DaveC wrote:
I'm trying to troubleshoot an error with an HP ink jet printer (Photosmart
3210) that says "Ink System Failure". All other components seem functional.

In the printer there is a small PCB with a few soldered components that
appear to sense ink flow or pressure. It is in series with the pump output.

http://i48.tinypic.com/o8xz84.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/r76kib.jpg

How does this work? Are these 6 LEDs and photodiodes? Just detecting the
presence of ink doesn't seem likely. Wouldn't movement or pressure be what is
detected?

What does this PCB do and how does it do it?


Oh, and I believe that is the heater circuit for the jets.
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Default Is this an ink flow sensor? (Ink Jet printer)

Have you actually looked for the repair manual for that printer online?
I found the one for my Epson R200 without much problems.
All parts are listed...


Yes. Nothing turned up.

If someone knows where to find the manual for HP Photosmart 3110/3210/3310
all-in-one printers (not the LaserJet 3210 -- why a company would duplicate
model numbers...?) please let me know.

Thanks for your reply.

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Default Is this an ink flow sensor? (Ink Jet printer)

Oh, and I believe that is the heater circuit for the jets.

There is 18 inches (45 cm) between this pcb and the print head. Hmm...

Thanks for your reply.

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Default Is this an ink flow sensor? (Ink Jet printer)

1) Reset the system by holding down the OK, Cancel, Black, and Color
buttons down at the same time and turn the 3310 off. Keep holding
the buttons down until the printer shuts off and the turn it back
on. You will have to turn the printer off twice and then it will
recalibrate. Make sure you have new cartridge in the printer so that
it can reset.


I saw this item on a printer repair forum last week. Tried this 8 or 10
times. No help.

2) There is a patch available for your printer that might fix the
the problem. The link below is to HP's site.

http://tinyurl.com/7jqdc3


This is for another model printer. While similar, there is no such patch for
the 3110/3210/3310 printers. I'm not encouraged...

Thanks for your reply.

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Default Is this an ink flow sensor? (Ink Jet printer)


"DaveC" wrote in message
...
Oh, and I believe that is the heater circuit for the jets.


There is 18 inches (45 cm) between this pcb and the print head. Hmm...

Thanks for your reply.


I had a wild guess along the same lines (not saying SMF was guessing - just
me). Maybe a heater element inside the black cylinders causes air expansion,
pushing air down the tubes as a purge function?????????




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Default Is this an ink flow sensor? (Ink Jet printer)

No diode effect measured. Resistance between each of the 6 pairs of "probes"
is 100K ohms. This, of course, is the measurement of the parallel SMD
resistor.


A correction: R1, R5, R6 measure 100K; R2, R3, R4 measure 200K. This is true
of 2 different PCBs (the "subject" printer and a used spare), both from
printers with the same error code.

Maybe a manufacturing error (ie, these were supposed to all be the same
value)?

Ideas?

Thanks.

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Default Is this an ink flow sensor? (Ink Jet printer)

On Jan 28, 2:01*am, "TheM" wrote:

I had a HP inkjet fax with several hundred MB of driver bloatware.
It refused to print B/W fax and complained colour cartridge was empty.
It has a separate B/W cartridge that was full. Sounds like their firmware
and software was written by sales people.


True enough. If the printer gets set in 'photography' mode, the black
hues
get printed with an excess of color ink, sometimes. I had a LONG
session
getting a printer reset after that happened, the menu selections were
demonically incomprehensible. And, of course, it used three
expensive
color inks instead of the cheap black ink, until the problem was
fixed.
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Default Is this an ink flow sensor? (Ink Jet printer)

DaveC ha scritto:
No diode effect measured. Resistance between each of the 6 pairs of "probes"
is 100K ohms. This, of course, is the measurement of the parallel SMD
resistor.


A correction: R1, R5, R6 measure 100K; R2, R3, R4 measure 200K. This is true
of 2 different PCBs (the "subject" printer and a used spare), both from
printers with the same error code.

Maybe a manufacturing error (ie, these were supposed to all be the same
value)?

Ideas?

Thanks.


Hi.
In that printer there is a sensor that can verify the presence or air
bubbles in the ink circuit.
I don't know if your piece is that sensor, but there is.
I am trying to fix a C6180 with the wll known ink system failure
problem: i can't find the service manual but i think i can have a
failure of the pump motor or of the circuit that control this motor.
The pump is located (in my case) in the left side of the printer (facing
the control panel) and (my thought) there is no sign of life of the
related motor even if i switch off and on the printer.
I am not sure about that: maybe this pump works only when a new set of
cartridge is installed in the printer (initialization) but, in my case
(following the instructions found on the net), i was not able to force a
cycle to eliminate trapped air.
If you have any solution, please, msg to me.
Thx
Slang

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Default Is this an ink flow sensor? (Ink Jet printer)

If you have any solution, please, msg to me.

Check your mail.

Dace

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