I recently found a very clean pair of JBL L19
speakers. These speakers look new.

Before buying them, I examined the speaker
surrounds thoroughly. All of them appear to
be in perfect condition.

I took them home and hooked them up.

They sound very good, but I am hearing
a slight rattle coming from one of the woofers.
The rattle is not very loud at all, and in fact
is almost inaudible most of the time. But you
can definitely hear it if you are listening to
certain things like a bass-heavy radio
announcer's voice or a soft piano solo.

The woofers on the JBL L19's have a
bowl-shaped piece of paper glued to the
center of the cone. I have verified that the
glue is solid all the way around; I have even
run a very fine bead of glue left over from a
speaker surround kit all the way around the
bowl, but the rattle persists.

I can make the rattle go away if I gently put
my finger on certain places in the center of
the woofer cone. I can make the rattle worse
if I put my finger on the surround, near the
top of the speaker.

One more thing: I can hear a slight rubbing
noise if I gently push the woofer's cone back
and forth on the top half of the speaker. I do
NOT hear this rubbing noise if I push the cone
anywhere on the bottom half, and I do NOT
hear the rubbing noise if I push both the top
and bottom halves at the same time (in other
words, if I push the cone in a "balanced" way).

I have verified that NOTHING is touching the
back of the speaker; no wires, no insulation
or anything else.

I am suspecting that maybe the spider is
out of round or off-center, or maybe the voice
coil is off-center.

What can I do to further diagnose, and then fix,
this annoying problem?

On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 07:16:19 -0800 (PST), EADGBE
wrote:


I recently found a very clean pair of JBL L19
speakers. These speakers look new.

Before buying them, I examined the speaker
surrounds thoroughly. All of them appear to
be in perfect condition.

I took them home and hooked them up.

They sound very good, but I am hearing
a slight rattle coming from one of the woofers.
The rattle is not very loud at all, and in fact
is almost inaudible most of the time. But you
can definitely hear it if you are listening to
certain things like a bass-heavy radio
announcer's voice or a soft piano solo.

The woofers on the JBL L19's have a
bowl-shaped piece of paper glued to the
center of the cone. I have verified that the
glue is solid all the way around; I have even
run a very fine bead of glue left over from a
speaker surround kit all the way around the
bowl, but the rattle persists.

I can make the rattle go away if I gently put
my finger on certain places in the center of
the woofer cone. I can make the rattle worse
if I put my finger on the surround, near the
top of the speaker.

One more thing: I can hear a slight rubbing
noise if I gently push the woofer's cone back
and forth on the top half of the speaker. I do
NOT hear this rubbing noise if I push the cone
anywhere on the bottom half, and I do NOT
hear the rubbing noise if I push both the top
and bottom halves at the same time (in other
words, if I push the cone in a "balanced" way).

I have verified that NOTHING is touching the
back of the speaker; no wires, no insulation
or anything else.

I am suspecting that maybe the spider is
out of round or off-center, or maybe the voice
coil is off-center.

What can I do to further diagnose, and then fix,
this annoying problem?

When the rubbing is very slight you can usually cure it by unbolting
the speaker, rotating it 180 degrees and bolting it back in.
Everything sags slightly the other way and bits that were touching
stop doing so.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

In article , (Don Pearce) wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 07:16:19 -0800 (PST), EADGBE
wrote:


I recently found a very clean pair of JBL L19
speakers. These speakers look new.

Before buying them, I examined the speaker
surrounds thoroughly. All of them appear to
be in perfect condition.

Eyesight alone is not a judge of condition. If you poke at
them, they should not tear.

I took them home and hooked them up.

They sound very good, but I am hearing
a slight rattle coming from one of the woofers.
The rattle is not very loud at all, and in fact
is almost inaudible most of the time. But you
can definitely hear it if you are listening to
certain things like a bass-heavy radio
announcer's voice or a soft piano solo.

The woofers on the JBL L19's have a
bowl-shaped piece of paper glued to the
center of the cone. I have verified that the
glue is solid all the way around; I have even
run a very fine bead of glue left over from a
speaker surround kit all the way around the
bowl, but the rattle persists.

I can make the rattle go away if I gently put
my finger on certain places in the center of
the woofer cone. I can make the rattle worse
if I put my finger on the surround, near the
top of the speaker.

One more thing: I can hear a slight rubbing
noise if I gently push the woofer's cone back
and forth on the top half of the speaker. I do
NOT hear this rubbing noise if I push the cone
anywhere on the bottom half, and I do NOT
hear the rubbing noise if I push both the top
and bottom halves at the same time (in other
words, if I push the cone in a "balanced" way).

I have verified that NOTHING is touching the
back of the speaker; no wires, no insulation
or anything else.

I am suspecting that maybe the spider is
out of round or off-center, or maybe the voice
coil is off-center.

What can I do to further diagnose, and then fix,
this annoying problem?

When the rubbing is very slight you can usually cure it by unbolting
the speaker, rotating it 180 degrees and bolting it back in.
Everything sags slightly the other way and bits that were touching
stop doing so.

That may work. If the voice coil is good, a suround repair could also center
the driver, but it may be a little more difficult to make it look orginal
when done due to the center piece.

greg

On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 07:16:19 -0800 (PST), EADGBE
wrote:

I am suspecting that maybe the spider is
out of round or off-center, or maybe the voice
coil is off-center.

What can I do to further diagnose, and then fix,
this annoying problem?

One easy thing to try is to mount the speaker the other way up.
Otherwise get it re-coned. This may or may not be cost-effective.

EADGBE wrote:
I recently found a very clean pair of JBL L19
speakers. These speakers look new.

Before buying them, I examined the speaker
surrounds thoroughly. All of them appear to
be in perfect condition.

I took them home and hooked them up.

They sound very good, but I am hearing
a slight rattle coming from one of the woofers.
The rattle is not very loud at all, and in fact
is almost inaudible most of the time. But you
can definitely hear it if you are listening to
certain things like a bass-heavy radio
announcer's voice or a soft piano solo.

The woofers on the JBL L19's have a
bowl-shaped piece of paper glued to the
center of the cone. I have verified that the
glue is solid all the way around; I have even
run a very fine bead of glue left over from a
speaker surround kit all the way around the
bowl, but the rattle persists.

I can make the rattle go away if I gently put
my finger on certain places in the center of
the woofer cone. I can make the rattle worse
if I put my finger on the surround, near the
top of the speaker.

One more thing: I can hear a slight rubbing
noise if I gently push the woofer's cone back
and forth on the top half of the speaker. I do
NOT hear this rubbing noise if I push the cone
anywhere on the bottom half, and I do NOT
hear the rubbing noise if I push both the top
and bottom halves at the same time (in other
words, if I push the cone in a "balanced" way).

I have verified that NOTHING is touching the
back of the speaker; no wires, no insulation
or anything else.

I am suspecting that maybe the spider is
out of round or off-center, or maybe the voice
coil is off-center.

What can I do to further diagnose, and then fix,
this annoying problem?

More than likely, the speaker was overdriven and the voice coil hit the
pole piece and warped the coil. Recone or replacement is the only
solution then.

There is a chance that the spider has come unglued. CHeck under the cone
in the basket area to confirm the spider is firmly connected to the cone
and the speaker basket. I have not seen this in a JBL, but i have seen
it before (not very often though)

Speakers of the 10/15 year old vintage often suffer from dry rot of the
cone surround. Check closely for any MICRO fracture of where the
surround connects to the basket or the cone itself. THis is the first
stage of self destruction.

bob

"EADGBE" wrote in message
...

I recently found a very clean pair of JBL L19
speakers. These speakers look new.

snip


According to my reader, the last time this crossposting clown posted in ukra
was 18/05/07 to ask for free advice with questions about more dodgy old
gear, splashed across a different spread of newsgroups and then failed to
acknowledge the bunch of helpful replies he received....

Hmmm....

On Jan 14, 11:19 am, "Keith G" wrote:

According to my reader, the last time this crossposting clown posted in ukra
was 18/05/07 to ask for free advice with questions about more dodgy old
gear, splashed across a different spread of newsgroups and then failed to
acknowledge the bunch of helpful replies he received....

Hmmm....


Then you don't know how to read your reader, asshole.

If you ACTUALLY did the research you claim to have done, you will
find that I have consistently and publicly thanked the people who
took the time to help me.

....And I will thank YOU to keep your smart-ass comments to yourself
in the future.

This is the last you'll hear from me. If you want to satisfy your
juvenile
urge to flame me some more, go right ahead. I won't take the bait.

Have a nice day.

"EADGBE" wrote in message
...
On Jan 14, 11:19 am, "Keith G" wrote:

According to my reader, the last time this crossposting clown posted in
ukra
was 18/05/07 to ask for free advice with questions about more dodgy old
gear, splashed across a different spread of newsgroups and then failed to
acknowledge the bunch of helpful replies he received....

Hmmm....


Then you don't know how to read your reader, asshole.

If you ACTUALLY did the research you claim to have done, you will
find that I have consistently and publicly thanked the people who
took the time to help me.

...And I will thank YOU to keep your smart-ass comments to yourself
in the future.

This is the last you'll hear from me. If you want to satisfy your
juvenile
urge to flame me some more, go right ahead. I won't take the bait.

Have a nice day.



The words '**** off spammer' spring immediately to mind...

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
The words '**** off spammer' spring immediately to mind...

A strange spammer who isn't trying to sell or promote anything...

--
*If PROGRESS is for advancement, what does that make CONGRESS mean?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"EADGBE" wrote in message
...
On Jan 14, 11:19 am, "Keith G" wrote:

According to my reader, the last time this crossposting clown posted in
ukra
was 18/05/07 to ask for free advice with questions about more dodgy old
gear, splashed across a different spread of newsgroups and then failed
to
acknowledge the bunch of helpful replies he received....

Hmmm....


Then you don't know how to read your reader, asshole.

If you ACTUALLY did the research you claim to have done, you will
find that I have consistently and publicly thanked the people who
took the time to help me.

...And I will thank YOU to keep your smart-ass comments to yourself
in the future.

This is the last you'll hear from me. If you want to satisfy your
juvenile
urge to flame me some more, go right ahead. I won't take the bait.

Have a nice day.



The words '**** off spammer' spring immediately to mind...



Hi Keith - long time no speak. How's it hanging ? Missus OK ? FWIW, this guy
posts often on s.e.r. and I have never known him to be impolite or to fail
to acknowledge any responders to his questions, myself included.

Arfa

EADGBE wrote:
They sound very good, but I am hearing
a slight rattle coming from one of the woofers.
The rattle is not very loud at all, and in fact
is almost inaudible most of the time. But you
can definitely hear it if you are listening to
certain things like a bass-heavy radio
announcer's voice or a soft piano solo.

I had that effect in some Pioneer speakers way back when because the foam
surround was coming loose from the cones. I would have sworn that the
voice coils were warped and touching the magnet cores.

--
If John McCain gets the 2008 Republican Presidential nomination,
my vote for President will be a write-in for Jiang Zemin.

I have had this before. The speaker has to be re-coned, or the surround has
to be changed. There are a fair number of places that specialize in speaker
driver rebuilding. The cone or the spider is off centre.

As the drivers age, they can go off centre. Some people suggest turning them
around in their mounts, but this does not properly fix the problem.

When rebuilding a driver, I would have both re-built at the same time. This
would insure that that they are matched.

The other solution is to call the JBL rep and order a new driver.

The fault you are having is common on many types of speakers. We send out
speakers for rebuilding for our clients.

--

JANA
_____


"EADGBE" wrote in message
...

I recently found a very clean pair of JBL L19
speakers. These speakers look new.

Before buying them, I examined the speaker
surrounds thoroughly. All of them appear to
be in perfect condition.

I took them home and hooked them up.

They sound very good, but I am hearing
a slight rattle coming from one of the woofers.
The rattle is not very loud at all, and in fact
is almost inaudible most of the time. But you
can definitely hear it if you are listening to
certain things like a bass-heavy radio
announcer's voice or a soft piano solo.

The woofers on the JBL L19's have a
bowl-shaped piece of paper glued to the
center of the cone. I have verified that the
glue is solid all the way around; I have even
run a very fine bead of glue left over from a
speaker surround kit all the way around the
bowl, but the rattle persists.

I can make the rattle go away if I gently put
my finger on certain places in the center of
the woofer cone. I can make the rattle worse
if I put my finger on the surround, near the
top of the speaker.

One more thing: I can hear a slight rubbing
noise if I gently push the woofer's cone back
and forth on the top half of the speaker. I do
NOT hear this rubbing noise if I push the cone
anywhere on the bottom half, and I do NOT
hear the rubbing noise if I push both the top
and bottom halves at the same time (in other
words, if I push the cone in a "balanced" way).

I have verified that NOTHING is touching the
back of the speaker; no wires, no insulation
or anything else.

I am suspecting that maybe the spider is
out of round or off-center, or maybe the voice
coil is off-center.

What can I do to further diagnose, and then fix,
this annoying problem?

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"EADGBE" wrote in message
...
On Jan 14, 11:19 am, "Keith G" wrote:

According to my reader, the last time this crossposting clown posted in
ukra
was 18/05/07 to ask for free advice with questions about more dodgy old
gear, splashed across a different spread of newsgroups and then failed
to
acknowledge the bunch of helpful replies he received....

Hmmm....


Then you don't know how to read your reader, asshole.

If you ACTUALLY did the research you claim to have done, you will
find that I have consistently and publicly thanked the people who
took the time to help me.

...And I will thank YOU to keep your smart-ass comments to yourself
in the future.

This is the last you'll hear from me. If you want to satisfy your
juvenile
urge to flame me some more, go right ahead. I won't take the bait.

Have a nice day.



The words '**** off spammer' spring immediately to mind...



Hi Keith - long time no speak. How's it hanging ? Missus OK ? FWIW, this
guy posts often on s.e.r. and I have never known him to be impolite or to
fail to acknowledge any responders to his questions, myself included.


Hi Arfa! All is well here, thanks - hope the same with you! (Dinky little
drive belt continues to work perfectly!)

Anyway, regarding our Guitar String friend (that anyone should be so quick
to support me when U No Hoo is flicking his little calumnies my way!) - as I
said above: On my machine (which is new, so it don't go back all the way to
the Big Bang) I have only one former entry which shows another instance of
him crossposting a request for advice and no sign of a response of any kind
to the 4 replies he received:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/ukra.jpg


I speak as I find...!!

"Keith G" wrote in message
news

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"EADGBE" wrote in message
...
On Jan 14, 11:19 am, "Keith G" wrote:

According to my reader, the last time this crossposting clown posted
in ukra
was 18/05/07 to ask for free advice with questions about more dodgy
old
gear, splashed across a different spread of newsgroups and then failed
to
acknowledge the bunch of helpful replies he received....

Hmmm....


Then you don't know how to read your reader, asshole.

If you ACTUALLY did the research you claim to have done, you will
find that I have consistently and publicly thanked the people who
took the time to help me.

...And I will thank YOU to keep your smart-ass comments to yourself
in the future.

This is the last you'll hear from me. If you want to satisfy your
juvenile
urge to flame me some more, go right ahead. I won't take the bait.

Have a nice day.



The words '**** off spammer' spring immediately to mind...



Hi Keith - long time no speak. How's it hanging ? Missus OK ? FWIW, this
guy posts often on s.e.r. and I have never known him to be impolite or to
fail to acknowledge any responders to his questions, myself included.


Hi Arfa! All is well here, thanks - hope the same with you! (Dinky little
drive belt continues to work perfectly!)

Anyway, regarding our Guitar String friend (that anyone should be so quick
to support me when U No Hoo is flicking his little calumnies my way!) - as
I said above: On my machine (which is new, so it don't go back all the way
to the Big Bang) I have only one former entry which shows another instance
of him crossposting a request for advice and no sign of a response of any
kind to the 4 replies he received:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/ukra.jpg


I speak as I find...!!

Fair enough , Keith. I would have to say that it was possibly an oversight
then, because as I said, I have typically found him to be a responsible
poster, definitely not in the class of 'spammer' or 'troll' ...

Glad you're all well, and the belt is still ok. Fleetie pops in over here
from time to time. I'll have to try to find the (computer) time to pop over
there again soon for a chat with all you guys.

Arfa

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:24:25 +0000, Keith G wrote:


"EADGBE" wrote in message
...
On Jan 14, 11:19 am, "Keith G" wrote:

According to my reader, the last time this crossposting clown posted in
ukra
was 18/05/07 to ask for free advice with questions about more dodgy old
gear, splashed across a different spread of newsgroups and then failed
to
acknowledge the bunch of helpful replies he received....

Hmmm....


Then you don't know how to read your reader, asshole.

If you ACTUALLY did the research you claim to have done, you will
find that I have consistently and publicly thanked the people who
took the time to help me.

...And I will thank YOU to keep your smart-ass comments to yourself
in the future.

This is the last you'll hear from me. If you want to satisfy your
juvenile
urge to flame me some more, go right ahead. I won't take the bait.

Have a nice day.



The words '**** off spammer' spring immediately to mind...

I've known EADGBE to be anything but a spammer.



Who the **** cares - I have clear evidence that he's a twice a year blow-in
wanting free advice and obviously doesn't consider it ill-mannered to smear
it all over several separate newsgroups to get what he wants and without a
word of thanks. Look at the pic:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/ukra.jpg


Work it out for yourself....

Delete 'spammer' and insert 'crossposter' if it makes you feel better -
usenet tosser, either way....


Maybe it's you who should
**** off...



From ukra - the only group I subscribe to? (See also in the pic...)

Stop and have a little think, YTC - you stop crossposting here and I don't
even *see* your silly posts...

(Yes, my replies are also crossposted - how TF do I know where you are
posting from...???)

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:24:25 +0000, Keith G wrote:


"EADGBE" wrote in message
...
On Jan 14, 11:19 am, "Keith G" wrote:

According to my reader, the last time this crossposting clown posted
in
ukra
was 18/05/07 to ask for free advice with questions about more dodgy
old
gear, splashed across a different spread of newsgroups and then failed
to
acknowledge the bunch of helpful replies he received....

Hmmm....


Then you don't know how to read your reader, asshole.

If you ACTUALLY did the research you claim to have done, you will
find that I have consistently and publicly thanked the people who
took the time to help me.

...And I will thank YOU to keep your smart-ass comments to yourself
in the future.

This is the last you'll hear from me. If you want to satisfy your
juvenile
urge to flame me some more, go right ahead. I won't take the bait.

Have a nice day.



The words '**** off spammer' spring immediately to mind...

I've known EADGBE to be anything but a spammer.



Who the **** cares - I have clear evidence that he's a twice a year
blow-in wanting free advice and obviously doesn't consider it ill-mannered
to smear it all over several separate newsgroups to get what he wants and
without a word of thanks. Look at the pic:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/ukra.jpg


Work it out for yourself....

Delete 'spammer' and insert 'crossposter' if it makes you feel better -
usenet tosser, either way....


Maybe it's you who should
**** off...



From ukra - the only group I subscribe to? (See also in the pic...)

Stop and have a little think, YTC - you stop crossposting here and I don't
even *see* your silly posts...

(Yes, my replies are also crossposted - how TF do I know where you are
posting from...???)




Maybe your news server just didn't see his reply or it didn't get
crossposted? I see a few regulars in that reply from s.e.r.. I know that
EADGBE isn't a spammer / Troll as well. If you upset because it is
crossposted, create a filter. Theres no need to get angry about it.


Now to get this back on topic,
Have you tried moving the voice coil in and out by hand to feel if it it is
dragging at all? I'd tend to agree with the others that the cone might be
out of alignment a bit.

Mike

"Michael Kennedy" wrote


Maybe your news server just didn't see his reply or it didn't get
crossposted? I see a few regulars in that reply from s.e.r.. I know that
EADGBE isn't a spammer / Troll as well. If you upset because it is
crossposted, create a filter. Theres no need to get angry about it.


Angry at newsgroup posts? Oh, I don't think so....

Please point to where my original response is incorrect:

"According to my reader, the last time this crossposting clown posted in
ukra
was 18/05/07 to ask for free advice with questions about more dodgy old
gear, splashed across a different spread of newsgroups and then failed to
acknowledge the bunch of helpful replies he received...."

And then consider directing your advice to the root cause - ie, the
crossposter himself who, incidentally, responded to me with this little gem:

"Then you don't know how to read your reader, asshole.

If you ACTUALLY did the research you claim to have done, you will
find that I have consistently and publicly thanked the people who
took the time to help me."

When the clear evidence:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/ukra.jpg


indicates that a) I did do the research, b) your paragon failed to thank
anyone at least on that occasion and c) is, in fact, a crossposting little
gob****e who doesn't brook at dragging half Usenet into sorting out his
problems for free if, when and as he feels like it....

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Michael Kennedy" wrote


Maybe your news server just didn't see his reply or it didn't get
crossposted? I see a few regulars in that reply from s.e.r.. I know that
EADGBE isn't a spammer / Troll as well. If you upset because it is
crossposted, create a filter. Theres no need to get angry about it.


Angry at newsgroup posts? Oh, I don't think so....

Please point to where my original response is incorrect:

"According to my reader, the last time this crossposting clown posted in
ukra
was 18/05/07 to ask for free advice with questions about more dodgy old
gear, splashed across a different spread of newsgroups and then failed to
acknowledge the bunch of helpful replies he received...."

And then consider directing your advice to the root cause - ie, the
crossposter himself who, incidentally, responded to me with this little
gem:

"Then you don't know how to read your reader, asshole.

If you ACTUALLY did the research you claim to have done, you will
find that I have consistently and publicly thanked the people who
took the time to help me."

When the clear evidence:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/ukra.jpg


indicates that a) I did do the research, b) your paragon failed to thank
anyone at least on that occasion and c) is, in fact, a crossposting little
gob****e who doesn't brook at dragging half Usenet into sorting out his
problems for free if, when and as he feels like it....



Hey ! I've never seen you getting this worked up Keefy baby ! Those good 'ol
Aussie boys on ukra been giving you lessons or summat ? d;~}

Arfa

Keith,

It seems to me like you are digging yourself a deeper hole with every reply.

From what I've read in the sci.electronics.repair newsgroup, EADGBE does not
qualify as a spammer and prior to his response to you, thanked contributors
and kept things civil.

The record on this particular news thread speaks for itself.

Bob

"Keith G" wrote in message
...
Angry at newsgroup posts? Oh, I don't think so....

Please point to where my original response is incorrect:

"According to my reader, the last time this crossposting clown posted in
ukra
was 18/05/07 to ask for free advice with questions about more dodgy old
gear, splashed across a different spread of newsgroups and then failed to
acknowledge the bunch of helpful replies he received...."

And then consider directing your advice to the root cause - ie, the
crossposter himself who, incidentally, responded to me with this little
gem:

"Then you don't know how to read your reader, asshole.

If you ACTUALLY did the research you claim to have done, you will
find that I have consistently and publicly thanked the people who
took the time to help me."

When the clear evidence:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/ukra.jpg


indicates that a) I did do the research, b) your paragon failed to thank
anyone at least on that occasion and c) is, in fact, a crossposting little
gob****e who doesn't brook at dragging half Usenet into sorting out his
problems for free if, when and as he feels like it....

In article ,
Bob Shuman wrote:
It seems to me like you are digging yourself a deeper hole with every
reply.

What you have to realise is that Mr G considers uk.rec audio as his own
little fiefdom and beware anyone who doesn't conform to his, err, beliefs.

From what I've read in the sci.electronics.repair newsgroup, EADGBE does
not qualify as a spammer and prior to his response to you, thanked
contributors and kept things civil.

You'll need to explain 'civil' to Keithie baby.

The record on this particular news thread speaks for itself.

--
*(on a baby-size shirt) "Party -- my crib -- two a.m

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Bob Shuman" wrote in message
...
Keith,

It seems to me like you are digging yourself a deeper hole with every
reply.

From what I've read in the sci.electronics.repair newsgroup, EADGBE does
not qualify as a spammer and prior to his response to you, thanked
contributors and kept things civil.

The record on this particular news thread speaks for itself.

Bob

It is true that there are many who have never learnt any basic manners, and
who ask questions on here, and then can either not be bothered to return and
read the sometimes very comprehensive answers, or if they do, semm like they
cannot be bothered to click a few buttons, and type a response or some
thanks. There may very well be valid reasons for this. For instance, when a
question has been cross-posted to multiple groups, some people may not have
the experience to determine where replies have come from, or may reply
direct to the respondent, or just to the group where the reply was posted
from.

There are "serial ignorers" who never seem to reply to anything posted back
to them by way of comments or help, but there are also regular posters, such
as the one who triggered all this, that I have not found to fall into this
category. Interestingly. I used to spend a fair bit of time over on ukra,
lurking, and making the odd contribution, and I hadn't previously seen Keith
'go off on one' like this, unless seriously provoked by some of the 'usual
suspects' over there. Perhaps there's just some little thing about this
which has 'set light' to him, and temporarily suspended the 'good guy'. It
happens to us all sometimes. Heaven knows, I've been dragged into a few
heated exchanges over the years, that on reflection probably started from me
just having a bad day ... !!

Arfa



"Keith G" wrote in message
...
Angry at newsgroup posts? Oh, I don't think so....

Please point to where my original response is incorrect:

"According to my reader, the last time this crossposting clown posted in
ukra
was 18/05/07 to ask for free advice with questions about more dodgy old
gear, splashed across a different spread of newsgroups and then failed to
acknowledge the bunch of helpful replies he received...."

And then consider directing your advice to the root cause - ie, the
crossposter himself who, incidentally, responded to me with this little
gem:

"Then you don't know how to read your reader, asshole.

If you ACTUALLY did the research you claim to have done, you will
find that I have consistently and publicly thanked the people who
took the time to help me."

When the clear evidence:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/ukra.jpg


indicates that a) I did do the research, b) your paragon failed to thank
anyone at least on that occasion and c) is, in fact, a crossposting
little gob****e who doesn't brook at dragging half Usenet into sorting
out his problems for free if, when and as he feels like it....

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

...
What you have to realise is that Mr G considers uk.rec audio as his own
little fiefdom and beware anyone who doesn't conform to his, err, beliefs.

From what I've read in the sci.electronics.repair newsgroup, EADGBE does
not qualify as a spammer and prior to his response to you, thanked
contributors and kept things civil.

You'll need to explain 'civil' to Keithie baby.

The record on this particular news thread speaks for itself.


He is an absolute idiot. Why does everyone else find him so difficult
to plonk?

JS

Arfa Daily wrote:

...
It is true that there are many who have never learnt any basic manners, and
who ask questions on here, and then can either not be bothered to return and
read the sometimes very comprehensive answers, or if they do, semm like they
cannot be bothered to click a few buttons, and type a response or some
thanks. There may very well be valid reasons for this. For instance, when a
question has been cross-posted to multiple groups, some people may not have
the experience to determine where replies have come from, or may reply
direct to the respondent, or just to the group where the reply was posted
from.

There are "serial ignorers" who never seem to reply to anything posted back
to them by way of comments or help, but there are also regular posters, such
as the one who triggered all this, that I have not found to fall into this
category. Interestingly. I used to spend a fair bit of time over on ukra,
lurking, and making the odd contribution, and I hadn't previously seen Keith
'go off on one' like this, unless seriously provoked by some of the 'usual
suspects' over there. Perhaps there's just some little thing about this
which has 'set light' to him, and temporarily suspended the 'good guy'. It
happens to us all sometimes. Heaven knows, I've been dragged into a few
heated exchanges over the years, that on reflection probably started from me
just having a bad day ... !!

Arfa

This is a freakin' newsgroup!

From these types of responses--one full of egotistical idiots!

PLONK! Ya idiot!

JS

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 23:59:17 +0000, Keith G wrote:

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:24:25 +0000, Keith G wrote:


"EADGBE" wrote in message
...
On Jan 14, 11:19 am, "Keith G" wrote:

According to my reader, the last time this crossposting clown posted
in
ukra
was 18/05/07 to ask for free advice with questions about more dodgy
old
gear, splashed across a different spread of newsgroups and then
failed
to
acknowledge the bunch of helpful replies he received....

Hmmm....


Then you don't know how to read your reader, asshole.

If you ACTUALLY did the research you claim to have done, you will
find that I have consistently and publicly thanked the people who
took the time to help me.

...And I will thank YOU to keep your smart-ass comments to yourself
in the future.

This is the last you'll hear from me. If you want to satisfy your
juvenile
urge to flame me some more, go right ahead. I won't take the bait.

Have a nice day.



The words '**** off spammer' spring immediately to mind...

I've known EADGBE to be anything but a spammer.



Who the **** cares

I care.


And who the **** cares whether you care or not.



And you've caused much more noise than EADGBE so kindly **** off.


No, **** - you have. Keep crossposting into ukra to prove me right....



snipped the rest of your bull**** completely unread


Nah, I don't believe you....

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
Arfa Daily wrote:

...
It is true that there are many who have never learnt any basic manners,
and who ask questions on here, and then can either not be bothered to
return and read the sometimes very comprehensive answers, or if they do,
semm like they cannot be bothered to click a few buttons, and type a
response or some thanks. There may very well be valid reasons for this.
For instance, when a question has been cross-posted to multiple groups,
some people may not have the experience to determine where replies have
come from, or may reply direct to the respondent, or just to the group
where the reply was posted from.

There are "serial ignorers" who never seem to reply to anything posted
back to them by way of comments or help, but there are also regular
posters, such as the one who triggered all this, that I have not found to
fall into this category. Interestingly. I used to spend a fair bit of
time over on ukra, lurking, and making the odd contribution, and I hadn't
previously seen Keith 'go off on one' like this, unless seriously
provoked by some of the 'usual suspects' over there. Perhaps there's just
some little thing about this which has 'set light' to him, and
temporarily suspended the 'good guy'. It happens to us all sometimes.
Heaven knows, I've been dragged into a few heated exchanges over the
years, that on reflection probably started from me just having a bad day
... !!

Arfa

This is a freakin' newsgroup!

From these types of responses--one full of egotistical idiots!

PLONK! Ya idiot!

JS

And your point is ... ?

Arfa

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 22:54:44 +0000, Keith G wrote:

Subject: QUESTION: JBL Speaker Rattle
From: "Keith G"
Newsgroups:
rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio ,rec.audio.pro
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 22:54:44 -0000


"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 23:59:17 +0000, Keith G wrote:

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:24:25 +0000, Keith G wrote:


"EADGBE" wrote in message
...
On Jan 14, 11:19 am, "Keith G" wrote:

According to my reader, the last time this crossposting clown
posted
in
ukra
was 18/05/07 to ask for free advice with questions about more dodgy
old
gear, splashed across a different spread of newsgroups and then
failed
to
acknowledge the bunch of helpful replies he received....

Hmmm....


Then you don't know how to read your reader, asshole.

If you ACTUALLY did the research you claim to have done, you will
find that I have consistently and publicly thanked the people who
took the time to help me.

...And I will thank YOU to keep your smart-ass comments to yourself
in the future.

This is the last you'll hear from me. If you want to satisfy your
juvenile
urge to flame me some more, go right ahead. I won't take the bait.

Have a nice day.



The words '**** off spammer' spring immediately to mind...

I've known EADGBE to be anything but a spammer.



Who the **** cares

I care.


And[SLAP]

Keep the thread going you hypocritical ****. You know you want the last
word.

heh



What ails thee, friend...?

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:26:11 +0000, Keith G wrote:

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 22:54:44 +0000, Keith G wrote:

Subject: QUESTION: JBL Speaker Rattle
From: "Keith G"
Newsgroups:
rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio ,rec.audio.pro
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 22:54:44 -0000


"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 23:59:17 +0000, Keith G wrote:

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:24:25 +0000, Keith G wrote:


"EADGBE" wrote in message
...
On Jan 14, 11:19 am, "Keith G" wrote:

According to my reader, the last time this crossposting clown
posted
in
ukra
was 18/05/07 to ask for free advice with questions about more
dodgy
old
gear, splashed across a different spread of newsgroups and then
failed
to
acknowledge the bunch of helpful replies he received....

Hmmm....


Then you don't know how to read your reader, asshole.

If you ACTUALLY did the research you claim to have done, you will
find that I have consistently and publicly thanked the people who
took the time to help me.

...And I will thank YOU to keep your smart-ass comments to
yourself
in the future.

This is the last you'll hear from me. If you want to satisfy your
juvenile
urge to flame me some more, go right ahead. I won't take the
bait.

Have a nice day.



The words '**** off spammer' spring immediately to mind...

I've known EADGBE to be anything but a spammer.



Who the **** cares

I care.


And[SLAP]

Keep the thread going you hypocritical ****. You know you want the last
word.

heh



What[SLAP]


Push the keyboard further back, sunshine - sounds like your tits keep
hitting it....



I was right.



Even a crossposting loser like you has got to be right at least the one
time....

Tell me summat - you're obviously a 'me too' attention-seeker, but what do
you want to be when you grow up?

Just curious like....

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 17:14:13 +0000, Keith G wrote:


"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:26:11 +0000, Keith G wrote:

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 22:54:44 +0000, Keith G wrote:

Subject: QUESTION: JBL Speaker Rattle
From: "Keith G"
Newsgroups:
rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio ,rec.audio.pro
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 22:54:44 -0000


"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 23:59:17 +0000, Keith G wrote:

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:24:25 +0000, Keith G wrote:


"EADGBE" wrote in message
...
On Jan 14, 11:19 am, "Keith G" wrote:

According to my reader, the last time this crossposting clown
posted
in
ukra
was 18/05/07 to ask for free advice with questions about more
dodgy
old
gear, splashed across a different spread of newsgroups and then
failed
to
acknowledge the bunch of helpful replies he received....

Hmmm....


Then you don't know how to read your reader, asshole.

If you ACTUALLY did the research you claim to have done, you
will
find that I have consistently and publicly thanked the people
who
took the time to help me.

...And I will thank YOU to keep your smart-ass comments to
yourself
in the future.

This is the last you'll hear from me. If you want to satisfy
your
juvenile
urge to flame me some more, go right ahead. I won't take the
bait.

Have a nice day.



The words '**** off spammer' spring immediately to mind...

I've known EADGBE to be anything but a spammer.



Who the **** cares

I care.


And[SLAP]

Keep the thread going you hypocritical ****. You know you want the
last
word.

heh



What[SLAP]


Push the keyboard further back, sunshine - sounds like your tits keep
hitting it....



I was right.



Even a crossposting loser like you has got to be right at least the one
time....

Imagine that, whining about cross posting from someone who's been cross
posting the entire thread.


No, Clowny Boy - you're crossposting from 4 newsgroups, I'm simply replying
from ukra....

(Glad the tip about moving the keyboard worked.... :-)

LOL!!

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 11:29:01 +0000, Keith G wrote:


"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 17:14:13 +0000, Keith G wrote:


"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:26:11 +0000, Keith G wrote:

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 22:54:44 +0000, Keith G wrote:

Subject: QUESTION: JBL Speaker Rattle
From: "Keith G"
Newsgroups:
rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio ,rec.audio.pro
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 22:54:44 -0000


"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 23:59:17 +0000, Keith G wrote:

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:24:25 +0000, Keith G wrote:


"EADGBE" wrote in message
...
On Jan 14, 11:19 am, "Keith G" wrote:

According to my reader, the last time this crossposting clown
posted
in
ukra
was 18/05/07 to ask for free advice with questions about more
dodgy
old
gear, splashed across a different spread of newsgroups and
then
failed
to
acknowledge the bunch of helpful replies he received....

Hmmm....


Then you don't know how to read your reader, asshole.

If you ACTUALLY did the research you claim to have done, you
will
find that I have consistently and publicly thanked the people
who
took the time to help me.

...And I will thank YOU to keep your smart-ass comments to
yourself
in the future.

This is the last you'll hear from me. If you want to satisfy
your
juvenile
urge to flame me some more, go right ahead. I won't take the
bait.

Have a nice day.



The words '**** off spammer' spring immediately to mind...

I've known EADGBE to be anything but a spammer.



Who the **** cares

I care.


And[SLAP]

Keep the thread going you hypocritical ****. You know you want the
last
word.

heh



What[SLAP]


Push the keyboard further back, sunshine - sounds like your tits keep
hitting it....



I was right.



Even a crossposting loser like you has got to be right at least the one
time....

Imagine that, whining about cross posting from someone who's been cross
posting the entire thread.


No, Clowny Boy - you're crossposting from 4 newsgroups, I'm simply
replying
from ukra....


Let's see, your reply was cross posted to:

Newsgroups:
rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio ,rec.audio.pro

I would say with out a doubt your reply was cross posted.


Like I say, dummy: I only subscribe to ukra and I'm only replying to your
posts - if you are crossposting, the replies are going to be crossposted
aren't they? I don't even know (or care) what group you are posting from, so
I couldn't strip the crossposting out, even if I CBA to! (Down to you,
really - isn't it?)

Anyway, I'm bored now and I feel sorry for the members of your crossposted
groups, even if you don't - so this is my last word....


rest of the silly **** snipped

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 18:01:24 +0000, Keith G wrote:

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 11:29:01 +0000, Keith G wrote:


"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 17:14:13 +0000, Keith G wrote:


"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:26:11 +0000, Keith G wrote:

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 22:54:44 +0000, Keith G wrote:

Subject: QUESTION: JBL Speaker Rattle
From: "Keith G"
Newsgroups:
rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio ,rec.audio.pro
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 22:54:44 -0000


"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 23:59:17 +0000, Keith G wrote:

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:24:25 +0000, Keith G wrote:


"EADGBE" wrote in message
...
On Jan 14, 11:19 am, "Keith G"
wrote:

According to my reader, the last time this crossposting
clown
posted
in
ukra
was 18/05/07 to ask for free advice with questions about
more
dodgy
old
gear, splashed across a different spread of newsgroups and
then
failed
to
acknowledge the bunch of helpful replies he received....

Hmmm....


Then you don't know how to read your reader, asshole.

If you ACTUALLY did the research you claim to have done, you
will
find that I have consistently and publicly thanked the
people
who
took the time to help me.

...And I will thank YOU to keep your smart-ass comments to
yourself
in the future.

This is the last you'll hear from me. If you want to
satisfy
your
juvenile
urge to flame me some more, go right ahead. I won't take
the
bait.

Have a nice day.



The words '**** off spammer' spring immediately to mind...

I've known EADGBE to be anything but a spammer.



Who the **** cares

I care.


And[SLAP]

Keep the thread going you hypocritical ****. You know you want the
last
word.

heh



What[SLAP]


Push the keyboard further back, sunshine - sounds like your tits keep
hitting it....



I was right.



Even a crossposting loser like you has got to be right at least the
one
time....

Imagine that, whining about cross posting from someone who's been
cross
posting the entire thread.


No, Clowny Boy - you're crossposting from 4 newsgroups, I'm simply
replying
from ukra....


Let's see, your reply was cross posted to:

Newsgroups:
rec.audio.tech,sci.electronics.repair,uk.rec.audio ,rec.audio.pro

I would say with out a doubt your reply was cross posted.


Like I say[SLAP]

**** off you pedantic, cross-posting fool. I have a mind to subscribe
to uk.r.a and further torture your stupid ass there but that would drop me
down to your level. Have fun net-copping uk.r.a and be glad I'll forget
you ever cross-posted in s.e.r.


Aha...

OK, that changes things a tad - no need to subscribe to ukra, ****head; I
know where you live now....

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Bob Shuman wrote:
It seems to me like you are digging yourself a deeper hole with every
reply.

What you have to realise is that Mr G considers uk.rec audio as his own
little fiefdom and beware anyone who doesn't conform to his, err, beliefs.



Well, well, well - no surprise to see you here Plowie....

What they also have to realise is that there's been plenty of times when I
have been virtually the only voice in ukra keeping the flame alive and that
I have unsubscribed twice and had direct 'come back' emails wailing about
how quiet it went each time - and let's show them here how even *you* pinged
me when I absented myself recently (I have crossposted the post here for
reference).

I also wonder if the good folk of s.e.r. (Meat Wanka excepted) know exactly
was a sad little maggot you are in ukra - getting your arse routinely kicked
every time to try it on with your betters? (And I wonder if they also know
that you really consider ukra to be your *own* property....??)

Well, not to worry Plowie - I shall unsubscribe ukra tonight (see my post
there shortly) and may well only subscribe here long enough to give Meat
Wanka a bit of a ride (while I can be arsed)...

(Crossposted to ukra only so the ukranians can see what a creep Plowman is!)



From what I've read in the sci.electronics.repair newsgroup, EADGBE does
not qualify as a spammer and prior to his response to you, thanked
contributors and kept things civil.

You'll need to explain 'civil' to Keithie baby.


I pay back in the same coin I am payed....




The record on this particular news thread speaks for itself.

--
*(on a baby-size shirt) "Party -- my crib -- two a.m

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Keith G wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Bob Shuman wrote:
It seems to me like you are digging yourself a deeper hole with every
reply.

What you have to realise is that Mr G considers uk.rec audio as his
own little fiefdom and beware anyone who doesn't conform to his, err,
beliefs.


Well, well, well - no surprise to see you here Plowie....

What they also have to realise is that there's been plenty of times when
I have been virtually the only voice in ukra keeping the flame alive

you don't know how true that is...

[snip the rest of the dribble]

--
*Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Bob Shuman wrote:
It seems to me like you are digging yourself a deeper hole with every
reply.

What you have to realise is that Mr G considers uk.rec audio as his
own little fiefdom and beware anyone who doesn't conform to his, err,
beliefs.


Well, well, well - no surprise to see you here Plowie....

What they also have to realise is that there's been plenty of times when
I have been virtually the only voice in ukra keeping the flame alive

you don't know how true that is...



Well, it's all yours now - you can line your arse up on Iain's boot as often
as you want free of the fear that I am watching you!! :-)



[snip the rest of the dribble]


Sure, but let's leave the stupid sig in! :-)

(Plowie *hates* that!! :-)


--
*Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Meat Wanka" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 21:39:01 +0000, Keith G wrote:

Well, well, well - no surprise to see you here Plowie....


Creep....



What they also have to realise is that there's been plenty of times when
I
have been virtually the only voice in ukra keeping the flame alive

Flaming? bwaaaaaaaaaaaahahahah.


Oh, that's good. Let me guess - an aeroplane going into a steep dive?



snipped the rest of your moronic dribble completely unread


Liar....

(But the naughty boy did snip Plowie's silly sig - can't have that, I'll put
it back in!)


--
*Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

OK.

I have just dropped in and checked this thread, after
being absent for a few days.

I have done some checking into this "controversy"
(if all of this B.S. could even deserve that title)...

In the case of my question concerning the
Nakamichi TA-4A receiver, I was able to resolve
the issue without having to check the thread again
to see what bits of advice I had received. I never
checked back, so it does logically follow that I
never did respond to the original thread with a
message of gratitude to the people kind enough
to try to help me.

So yeah, Keith G. is technically correct...I didn't
thank anyone in that thread, and I do believe
that I should have done so, even though I didn't
need to try any of the suggestions I received.

I was wrong not to thank those who posted
suggestions...BUT...Keith G. is equally wrong
for slamming my head up against the wall so
furiously for it. It was a simple oversight on my
part, and certainly not deserving of such
self-righteous indignation on his part.

HONESTLY, we all have been guilty
of not expressing gratitude at one time or
another...should we all be forced to have that
held against us for the rest of our lives?

Keith G. was quite diligent in finding a
mistake that I made in the past and then
holding me accountable for it.

Why couldn't he have been equally diligent
in finding my much more recent posts, where
I was quite careful to thank those who had
helped me?

I guess it's more fun for Keith G. to point out
where others go wrong, instead of actually
being constructive and helpful.

And to top it all off, he never even offered any
advice to me in that Nakamichi thread--so why
is he even spending all of his time and energy
caring about whether or not people were
properly thanked in that thread???

Is it really THAT much fun to be so
vindictive? I guess it is for Keith G.

I will end by saying one more thing:

It takes a real adult to admit
when he's wrong.

I have done so in this post.

I will now wait for Keith G. to admit he
was wrong for being so needlessly
vicious.

But I won't hold my breath.

By the way, A BIG THANK YOU (sincerely)
to everyone who has been helping me with
the JBL speaker question. I haven't yet had
the time to try any suggestions, but I have
some free time coming up in the next few
days, and I plan to give some of your
suggestions a go. I'll let you know what
I find.... Cheers!

"EADGBE" wrote in message
...

OK.

I have just dropped in and checked this thread, after
being absent for a few days.

I have done some checking into this "controversy"
(if all of this B.S. could even deserve that title)...

In the case of my question concerning the
Nakamichi TA-4A receiver, I was able to resolve
the issue without having to check the thread again
to see what bits of advice I had received. I never
checked back,


Yep.


so it does logically follow that I
never did respond to the original thread with a
message of gratitude to the people kind enough
to try to help me.


Yep.



So yeah, Keith G. is technically correct...I didn't
thank anyone in that thread, and I do believe
that I should have done so, even though I didn't
need to try any of the suggestions I received.


Yep.

(As in May last year, in ukra...)



I was wrong not to thank those who posted
suggestions...BUT...Keith G. is equally wrong
for slamming my head up against the wall so
furiously for it. It was a simple oversight on my
part, and certainly not deserving of such
self-righteous indignation on his part.


You think so? 100% incidence on my (new) computer here and I don't have the
beginning of this thread, but I believe I pointed out your crossposting and
failure to thank those who replied on this and the only previous post I
could find for you - which was also crossposted....



HONESTLY, we all have been guilty
of not expressing gratitude at one time or
another...


???


should we all be forced to have that
held against us for the rest of our lives?

Keith G. was quite diligent in finding a
mistake that I made in the past and then
holding me accountable for it.


Took 20 seconds - see above, I had only 300 posts to scan and your only
other post in ukra, the only group I subscribed to then was May last year...



Why couldn't he have been equally diligent
in finding my much more recent posts, where
I was quite careful to thank those who had
helped me?


In ukra? There weren't any.


I guess it's more fun for Keith G. to point out
where others go wrong, instead of actually
being constructive and helpful.


Not really and, as I was just about to unsubscribe ukra anyway, I'd have
done better to let it pass. If there had been more posts from you (ie as an
*ukra contributor*) instead of just one more example of what appeared to be
extremely selfish behaviour I wouldn't have replied at all.



And to top it all off, he never even offered any
advice to me in that Nakamichi thread--so why
is he even spending all of his time and energy
caring about whether or not people were
properly thanked in that thread???


I have no idea about your Nak problem and I care (cared) about the lack of
acknowledgement because it came at the end of a long career of assisting no
end of people over the last few years (in ukra) - usually/mostly without
acknowledgement. Came at the wrong time, that's all....



Is it really THAT much fun to be so
vindictive? I guess it is for Keith G.


Doesn't help when your response was as follows:

----------------------------------------------------------------
Then you don't know how to read your reader, asshole.

If you ACTUALLY did the research you claim to have done, you will
find that I have consistently and publicly thanked the people who
took the time to help me.

...And I will thank YOU to keep your smart-ass comments to yourself
in the future.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Does it?



I will end by saying one more thing:

It takes a real adult to admit
when he's wrong.

I have done so in this post.


Almost - you seem more concerned to make the point that *I'm* in the wrong:


I will now wait for Keith G. to admit he
was wrong for being so needlessly
vicious.


Vicious? I don't think so - especially not in the light of your 'asshole'
response....



But I won't hold my breath.


Don't - if I thought I was wrong anywhere in that thread I wouldn't have
posted. Wasn't helped by your pal Meat Wanka swinging in to ukra trying to
act the tough guy, but I'll tell you one thing - at least he tried to back
you up. Not one member of ukra did the same for me - so **** 'em...

(This time I've announced my intention to drop 'audio usenet', I've so far
only had one 'ukranian' saying 'keep in touch with the group', so it looks
like I've overstayed my welcome there - not that there's anything left of it
other than the likes of Plowman...)



By the way, A BIG THANK YOU (sincerely)
to everyone who has been helping me with
the JBL speaker question. I haven't yet had
the time to try any suggestions, but I have
some free time coming up in the next few
days, and I plan to give some of your
suggestions a go. I'll let you know what
I find.... Cheers!


Well, it was a long haul, but it seems it did a bit of good in the end. Next
time you're in the wrong and get a bollocking for it try to act less like a
spoilt kid and pass the word to Meat Wanka to be careful about gobbing off
on someone else's 'home turf' - or someone might follow him home again....

That's it. I'm done with usenet now and will take this opportunity to nip it
off, or it will go on forever....

(Crosspostposting left in for 'closure'....)

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"EADGBE" wrote in message
...

OK.

I have just dropped in and checked this thread, after
being absent for a few days.

I have done some checking into this "controversy"
(if all of this B.S. could even deserve that title)...

In the case of my question concerning the
Nakamichi TA-4A receiver, I was able to resolve
the issue without having to check the thread again
to see what bits of advice I had received. I never
checked back,


Yep.


so it does logically follow that I
never did respond to the original thread with a
message of gratitude to the people kind enough
to try to help me.


Yep.



So yeah, Keith G. is technically correct...I didn't
thank anyone in that thread, and I do believe
that I should have done so, even though I didn't
need to try any of the suggestions I received.


Yep.

(As in May last year, in ukra...)



I was wrong not to thank those who posted
suggestions...BUT...Keith G. is equally wrong
for slamming my head up against the wall so
furiously for it. It was a simple oversight on my
part, and certainly not deserving of such
self-righteous indignation on his part.


You think so? 100% incidence on my (new) computer here and I don't have
the beginning of this thread, but I believe I pointed out your
crossposting and failure to thank those who replied on this and the only
previous post I could find for you - which was also crossposted....



HONESTLY, we all have been guilty
of not expressing gratitude at one time or
another...


???


should we all be forced to have that
held against us for the rest of our lives?

Keith G. was quite diligent in finding a
mistake that I made in the past and then
holding me accountable for it.


Took 20 seconds - see above, I had only 300 posts to scan and your only
other post in ukra, the only group I subscribed to then was May last
year...



Why couldn't he have been equally diligent
in finding my much more recent posts, where
I was quite careful to thank those who had
helped me?


In ukra? There weren't any.


I guess it's more fun for Keith G. to point out
where others go wrong, instead of actually
being constructive and helpful.


Not really and, as I was just about to unsubscribe ukra anyway, I'd have
done better to let it pass. If there had been more posts from you (ie as
an *ukra contributor*) instead of just one more example of what appeared
to be extremely selfish behaviour I wouldn't have replied at all.



And to top it all off, he never even offered any
advice to me in that Nakamichi thread--so why
is he even spending all of his time and energy
caring about whether or not people were
properly thanked in that thread???


I have no idea about your Nak problem and I care (cared) about the lack of
acknowledgement because it came at the end of a long career of assisting
no end of people over the last few years (in ukra) - usually/mostly
without acknowledgement. Came at the wrong time, that's all....



Is it really THAT much fun to be so
vindictive? I guess it is for Keith G.


Doesn't help when your response was as follows:

----------------------------------------------------------------
Then you don't know how to read your reader, asshole.

If you ACTUALLY did the research you claim to have done, you will
find that I have consistently and publicly thanked the people who
took the time to help me.

...And I will thank YOU to keep your smart-ass comments to yourself
in the future.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Does it?



I will end by saying one more thing:

It takes a real adult to admit
when he's wrong.

I have done so in this post.


Almost - you seem more concerned to make the point that *I'm* in the
wrong:


I will now wait for Keith G. to admit he
was wrong for being so needlessly
vicious.


Vicious? I don't think so - especially not in the light of your 'asshole'
response....



But I won't hold my breath.


Don't - if I thought I was wrong anywhere in that thread I wouldn't have
posted. Wasn't helped by your pal Meat Wanka swinging in to ukra trying to
act the tough guy, but I'll tell you one thing - at least he tried to back
you up. Not one member of ukra did the same for me - so **** 'em...

(This time I've announced my intention to drop 'audio usenet', I've so far
only had one 'ukranian' saying 'keep in touch with the group', so it looks
like I've overstayed my welcome there - not that there's anything left of
it other than the likes of Plowman...)



By the way, A BIG THANK YOU (sincerely)
to everyone who has been helping me with
the JBL speaker question. I haven't yet had
the time to try any suggestions, but I have
some free time coming up in the next few
days, and I plan to give some of your
suggestions a go. I'll let you know what
I find.... Cheers!


Well, it was a long haul, but it seems it did a bit of good in the end.
Next time you're in the wrong and get a bollocking for it try to act less
like a spoilt kid and pass the word to Meat Wanka to be careful about
gobbing off on someone else's 'home turf' - or someone might follow him
home again....

That's it. I'm done with usenet now and will take this opportunity to nip
it off, or it will go on forever....

(Crosspostposting left in for 'closure'....)



Aw, c'mon Keef. I'm not a reg'lar over there on UKRA any more, but I did
defend you on here, saying that I had not known you to be quite so 'robust'
in your responses in the past, and it must have been just that he caught you
on a bad day, which it seems was rather the case. It'll be a shame if you
abandon Usenet. I always enjoyed your slightly acidic take on life, and the
pictures of your latest speakers and Chinese amps ... !!

(x - posting left in, in case you don't look back here ... )

Arfa

On Jan 22, 4:39 am, "Keith G" wrote:

You think so? 100% incidence on my (new) computer here and I don't have the
beginning of this thread, but I believe I pointed out your crossposting and
failure to thank those who replied on this and the only previous post I
could find for you - which was also crossposted....

First of all, let me teach you something about crossposting, since it
seems to rub your fanny so raw.

Some people crosspost because they are SPAMMERS. They crosspost
because they are either trying to sell something, or promote some
cause, or gain as wide an audience as possible, with little regard for
the
appropriateness of their message in the newsgroups they populate.

Then there are people like myself, who crosspost to a LIMITED NUMBER
of newsgroups, because their questions or comments might interest
people
in more than one narrowly focused newsgroup. I do not crosspost to ALL
newsgroups -- only to the newsgroups to which my questions might
apply.
For your information, I have never, ever crossposted to more than FOUR
newsgroups at a time.

In all the years I have had internet access, I have received NO
negative
comments about this practice at all -- except from YOU. YOU are the
ONLY ONE who has ever mentioned it at all. If there is strength in
numbers, you DON'T have it on your side.

But I tell you what--I will do you this favor: If you can show me
your
"Internet Police" badge, I will gladly follow whatever rules you wish
to enforce.

Otherwise, any of your objections about my posting practices must be
considered null and void, and you would do very well indeed to stop
laboring under the delusion that you have any right whatsoever to
critique where I (or anyone else) may choose to make any
non-commercial, non-spam post.

Based on your comments about crossposting, which are pretty sweeping,
you seem to think that the second someone posts similar material in
more
than one newsgroup, they are ***AUTOMATICALLY*** guilty of spamming
or similarly disruptive behavior.

What is so ironic is that the self-centered, self-important, anti-
social
behavior you have displayed so blatantly--not just toward me, but to
others
as well, especially these past few days--is far more disruptive and
unwelcome than ANY bit of crossposting.

If you could only see that irony.

Now to your latest comments about me and my behavior:

I believe I pointed out your crossposting and
FAILURE TO THANK THOSE WHO REPLIED ON THIS ....

Boy, you really are quick on the draw, aren't you? When you used the
word
"this" in that statement, you could only be referring to THIS thread--
the JBL
speaker thread. Go back and check--you posted your original negative
comments about me in THIS thread ON THE VERY SAME DAY THAT I
STARTED THIS THREAD. In fact, you posted your "bollocking" JUST OVER
ONE HOUR AFTER I STARTED THIS THREAD.

So, not only am I guilty of thanking people in THIS thread, I am also
guilty
of not thanking them QUICKLY ENOUGH? So in THIS thread, you didn't
even see fit to give me a chance to check back and read the
suggestions that
had come through in those first minutes...after JUST OVER ONE HOUR,
it was too late--I was already guilty of ingratitude. Utterly
amazing.

I hope and pray that you never become a judge or hold any other sort
of
position of authority. Since your condemnation is so absolute, and
since your
decision to levy that condemnation is controlled by such a "hair
trigger" as this,
it is painfully obvious that we would all eventually be doomed to
spend the
rest of eternity in your dungeon.

I believe I pointed out your crossposting and
failure to thank those who replied on this and the only previous post I
could find for you - which was also crossposted....

By your own admission here, you have seen fit to judge me by looking
at
just TWO posts I've made. And as we have determined, one of those
posts
was only just over an hour old at the time you passed judgment.

How many nanoseconds did you search before you drew your very ill-
informed
conclusion about me? Oh, wait--you told me already:

Took 20 seconds - see above, I had only 300 posts to scan and your only
other post in ukra, the only group I subscribed to then was May last year...

Not exactly what I would call a representative slice of my overall
behavior.

Please tell me--How does a TWENTY SECOND search give you the right--
real or imagined--to pass judgment on ANY subject or individual? How
does
a TWENTY SECOND search give you any sufficient amount of TRUTH to
base ANY comment you might make on ANY subject or individual?

But since when does the TRUTH matter to an individual such as
yourself?

Even though what you may think of me matters not one iota, to me or
anyone else, for the sake of TRUTH please allow me to give you a MUCH
more accurate picture of the way I conduct myself whenever I ask for
assistance in these newsgroups.

Since you don't seem to know how to do a decent newsgroup search
about me, I have done my own search, the results of which are shown
below. You must face this fact: If I am to be branded an ungrateful
leech,
I should at least have the privilege of having more than TWENTY
SECONDS'
worth of evidence presented at my trial, don't you think?

NOTE: All posts indicated below (except one) were SINFULLY
crossposted
to four newsgroups (rec.audio.tech, sci.electronics.repair,
uk.rec.audio,
rec.audio.pro)

Here goes....

April 16, 2007 - I started a thread asking for help with a problem I
was
having with my Nakamichi BX-300 cassette deck.
(QUESTION: Weird Behavior - Nakamichi BX-300)
April 17, 18, 21 - I THANKED several people for their responses to
this thread.
==================

June 12, 2007 - I started a thread asking about differences I had
found
in two different Nakamichi BX-300 cassette
decks.
(QUESTION -- For Nakamichi Experts)
June 13, 2007 - I THANKED two people for their responses to this
thread.
==================

Nov. 6, 2007 - I started a thread asking for help with an issue I had
with
an older Technics receiver.
(QUESTION: FM Stereo Sensitivity)
Nov 6 & 7, 2007 - I THANKED several responders for their help and
tips.

(NOTE: This FM Stereo Sensitivity thread was not posted to
uk.rec.audio
but was posted to the other three newsgroups.)
==================

January 6, 2008 - I started a thread asking how to determine the
proper
polarity of the DC voltage input on an
Ariston turntable.
(QUESTION: Ariston Turntable Voltage
Polarity)
January 8, 2008 - I THANKED everyone for their input and assistance.

All four of these threads were found by doing a newsgroup search that
took
all of a MINUTE. I guess one minute is much too long for your short
attention
span? No special equipment or technique was used to get these search
results.

These several examples of my gratitude--which are EASILY found in the
newsgroups if one knows how to do a search, regardless of how new
(or old) one's "new" computer might be--clearly contradict your
original
assertions about me, so my original statement to you still stands:

YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO READ YOUR READER, ASSHOLE.

Probably the most pathetic thing about your entire argument is that
you feel
qualified to comment on my newsgroup behavior while you freely admit
that
you have done practically NOTHING to get a more representative
overview of
my behavior; instead you simply chalk it up to your supposed "new"
computer not search back far enough. If you, your "new" computer, or
your
"new" computer's software can't even do a simple newsgroup search,
then one of you desperately needs a recall.

And lest you forget, one of my examples of gratitude in my search
results
given above is from JANUARY OF THIS YEAR. (The thread about the
Ariston turntable voltage polarity.)

I made it a POINT to post the Ariston turntable question in ukra,
since the Ariston turntable in question was made in Scotland!

How did your "new" computer manage to miss THAT one, my friend?

Once again I say, if TWENTY SECONDS is all it takes for you
to make up your little mind about someone, AND since you really don't
even care to get your facts straight when you DO make up your little
mind
about someone--God help anyone else who is unfortunate enough to
cross paths with you.

I said the following:

Why couldn't he have been equally diligent
in finding my much more recent posts, where
I was quite careful to thank those who had
helped me?

To which you replied:

In ukra? There weren't any.

I think we can now both agree that this is a lie. If you shut your
eyes
to something, that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. My gratitude
is shown repeatedly in ukra, in more than one thread. You simply
didn't
choose to see it (and don't blame it on your "new" computer or its
software, either).

as I was just about to unsubscribe ukra anyway, I'd have
done better to let it pass.

Yes, especially when you consider that when you didn't let it pass,
you instead chose to put forth a STATISTICALLY INCORRECT conclusion,
based on FLAWED reasoning, fueled by a PATHETICALLY INSUFFICIENT
amount of data that was collected, BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION, in
what could only be described as the most cursory of searches.

If there had been more posts from you (ie as an
*ukra contributor*) instead of just one more example of what appeared
to be extremely selfish behaviour I wouldn't have replied at all.

Hmm...Sorry, I don't remember seeing the rule book about who can and
cannot post in ukra. I didn't know that only "contributors" were
allowed to
post. I had no idea that questions weren't permitted. I'm still
waiting to
see that "Internet Police" badge of yours....still waiting......

...I care (cared) about the lack of acknowledgement because it came
at the end of a long career of assisting no end of people over the last
few years (in ukra) - usually/mostly without acknowledgement. Came
at the wrong time, that's all....

Oh, so ukra was your CAREER, was it? Sorry to **** all over your
retirement party with my boorish shenanigans. Geez, can you whine
even louder next time? I help people all the time on the internet,
but
unlike yourself, I have better things to do with my time than to care
whether or not those people "properly" thank me. It's nice when I do
get thanked, but it doesn't rain on my parade if I don't get a "thank
you"
card. That's not why I help people. I help them because I like to
be
nice whenever I can, to whomever deserves it. Next time, help someone
WITHOUT strings attached, and you will have fewer ulcers. The
giving's the thing, maaan......seriously.

Vicious? I don't think so - especially not in the light of your 'asshole'
response....

One thing that is so great about people like you is that you are so
incredibly predictable. You are extremely sensitive about comments
made about you, and at the same time you are oblivious to comments
you make about others. A textbook case of self-centered immaturity.

In the VERY FIRST comment you ever made about me, in the midst of
insinuating I was a freeloader asking for free advice, AND that I was
ungrateful, AND that I only concern myself with "dodgy gear", you call
me
a "crossposting clown" -- how did you think that was going to be
received?

In all forms of social interaction, be it on the internet or face to
face, one
truism remains constant: YOU ONLY GET WHAT YOU GIVE.

If you still haven't realized this at this late stage (and all
indications are
that you haven't), then you need to do some growing up before you
really
are beyond hope.

Don't - if I thought I was wrong anywhere in that thread I wouldn't have
posted. Wasn't helped by your pal Meat Wanka swinging in to ukra trying
to act the tough guy, but I'll tell you one thing - at least he tried to back
you up. Not one member of ukra did the same for me - so **** 'em...

That's your whole problem here in a nutshell. You don't think you're
wrong,
yet you are completely, utterly, spectacularly wrong. On a variety of
levels.
It would be laughable if it weren't so pathetic.

To any reasonable outside observer, I have proven, with concrete
evidence,
that you were wrong to assert that I don't express gratitude, you were
wrong
in the methods you employed to reach that conclusion, and on a purely
social level, you were wrong to treat me and others the way you have.

Why do you think Meat (and others, mind you) tried to help me out
during this little confrontation? I don't know any of these people at
all.

Maybe it's because I don't conduct myself the way that you do. I try
to be
respectful (and grateful) to everyone who treats me the same way, and
I
send a big "**** OFF" to the people who consistently mistreat me.

I'll say it one more time: YOU ONLY GET WHAT YOU GIVE.

You say that "not one member of ukra" did the same for you -- and you
really, serously don't understand why? I think that I am safe in
saying
that before this thread, I have never dealt with you before in my
life. And
looking at the way you have conducted yourself throughout this
thread,
I can safely say that I never want to deal with you again. And it
seems
that I am not alone in that sentiment. You need to take a good, long
look at yourself and the way you interact with others, and maybe,
just
MAYBE, you will understand why I (and others) feel this way.

Well, it was a long haul, but it seems it did a bit of good in the end.

Don't you dare think for one minute that you have taught me anything,
except how inept and tactless you are when it comes to dealing with
people. You have done me (or anyone) else NO good at all.

As I have proven conclusively, I *do* express gratitude when
I receive assistance, and one oversight on my part is *not* the basis
for any assessment to the contrary. I freely admit to being human and
therefore not consistently brilliant and correct 100 percent of the
time...but my percentage is still a great deal higher than yours.

Next time you're in the wrong and get a bollocking for it try to act
less like a spoilt kid and pass the word to Meat Wanka to be careful
about gobbing off on someone else's 'home turf' - or someone might
follow him home again....

Get your head out of the clouds. YOU are the one in the wrong, not
me. I am more than willing to accept a reprimand when I am truly in
the wrong and the evidence shows it. I am far more secure with
myself
than you are in this regard.

Unfortunately for you (and others like you), I will *never* be willing
to
accept any ill-informed attempt to put me down just so you (and
others like you) can feel superior. That's not what a bollocking is
supposed to be. If I haven't taught you this, I hope that someone
does. And I hope it's soon.

As for Meat, I will give him no instructions, least of all from such
pariahs as yourself. Meat is more than capable of taking care of
himself.

That's it. I'm done with usenet now and will take this opportunity to
nip it off, or it will go on forever....

I have a distinct feeling that you are still checking this thread,
even
if you never post here again. This time, it's MY turn to say I'm
done....REALLY done...with this tired topic.

Thanks to everyone (again) who made the HELPFUL responses
I found in this thread.

most snipped

That's it. I'm done with usenet now and will take this opportunity to
nip it off, or it will go on forever....

I have a distinct feeling that you are still checking this thread,
even
if you never post here again. This time, it's MY turn to say I'm
done....REALLY done...with this tired topic.

Thanks to everyone (again) who made the HELPFUL responses
I found in this thread.

As I said near the top when Keith came wading in, I have never known you to
be anything other than a responsible poster. Certainly, you have thanked me
when I've made responses to your questions.

That said, I'm also at a bit of a loss to explain why Keith got so worked up
on this one. I used to spend quite a bit of time on UKRA, and had many
interesting and friendly exchanges with Keith over the years, and indeed,
many other 'regulars' over there. I have seen some pretty fierce flame wars
on that group, which Keith and others have been dragged into, but I can't
remember ever seeing him get quite this vehement in his responses. He is an
experienced computer and Usenet user, so is certainly capable of researching
past postings from anyone. So I'm sure that there must be a reason that he
reacted like this, because based on my past interactions with him, I would
definitely have had him down as one of the 'good guys'.

Still, hopefully it's all resolved now ...

Arfa

"Arfa Daily" wrote
That said, I'm also at a bit of a loss to explain why Keith got so worked up on this one. I used to spend quite a bit of time on
UKRA, and had many interesting and friendly exchanges with Keith over the years, and indeed, many other 'regulars' over there. I
have seen some pretty fierce flame wars on that group, which Keith and others have been dragged into, but I can't remember ever
seeing him get quite this vehement in his responses. He is an experienced computer and Usenet user, so is certainly capable of
researching past postings from anyone. So I'm sure that there must be a reason that he reacted like this, because based on my
past interactions with him, I would definitely have had him down as one of the 'good guys'.

Keith isn't usually this unreasonable and rude. However, ISTR that I've seen
him blow up like this before, though I can't cite specific examples.

It seems clear to me what's happened he Keith was in a bad mood and bored
one day, so saw EADGBE's post and decided to fire a rocket at him for ****s and
giggles, but there was robust criticism of that move from various quarters in
s.e.r. because of the crosspost and the fact that Keith isn't a subscriber to
that group. The magnitude of the criticism was sufficient to re-ignite Keith's
fury to heights anew after he would otherwise have calmed down, and things
escalated with each post, and he found himself in a situation from which
he couldn't (well, wouldn't) back down. This destructive meltdown persisted for
days and days, with everyone who wasn't suffering from the red mist
(i.e. everyone except Keith) criticising Keith and the same getting more and
more incandescent with the passage of time, culminating in meltdown and
flounce - and all experienced net contributors know that flouncers, almost
without exception, soon return.

I found it highly amusing, for all the "wrong" reasons. Keith was bang out of
order on this occasion and refused to admit it.

It was an entertaining show. I've nothing personally against Keith. He's
almost always been ok to me. But the fact remains that he's been very wrong
this time, and he refused to admit it.


Martin
--
M.A.Poyser Tel.: 07967 110890
Manchester, U.K. http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=fleetie