Yesterday I went to the tool store for a replacement battery pack for my
KC14C Black & Decker cordless drill, as the previously repaired shorted
cells had burned out the charger - for which I'd since found a replacement
transformer, I also asked for a price on this item, and the batter had since
started self discharging.

The battery was over £46 & the charger over £18 the £46 is about what I
originally bought the drill for (special offer) and at the cut price DIY
store I could buy 3 cordless hammer drills for the combined price!

A quick rummage in the junk box turned up an Electrolux battery pack with 12
cells (I assume its for a cordless vacuum cleaner) The cells were slightly
longer than the ones in the B&D pack, but that turned out not to be a
problem since the impressively sized battery pack is half full of plastic
spacer - once this was taken out and thrown away the bigger cells fit just
fine, the battery inside the connector stem took a little more effort, it
has a plastic cap inside that centres the cell with moulded plastic webbing
to take up the slack of the shorter cell, it was easy to break most of this
away with pointed pliers and mill out the rest with a rotary drill bit in
the modelling/PCB drill.

Interestingly, a while back I found a 12V version of the drill put out by
the bins - which I obviously grabbed in case any spares were good for mine,
it turned out that all 10 cells were S/C and as usual this had burned out
the transformer. The cells were easy to "unstick" with a 12V SLA and I put
it on charge with a replacement transformer (Hayes modem transformer), it
has since worked fine with no evidence of undue self discharge.

Obviously B&D supply crap batteries with their tools, and I noticed that
when I phoned B&D to ask about spares their recorded message announced
"De-Walt and Black & Decker tools" so you won't get any better there either!
Indeed I've seen one or two threads on this group by people having trouble
with De-Walt batteries as well!

So there you go Black & Decker - if you weren't such greedy *******s you
would have made some money out of me, but instead you tried to rip me off -
so I fixed it myself, improved your crap product and told everyone what a
load of crap your product is!

The folks in R.C.M. would appreciate this.
JR

ian field wrote:

Yesterday I went to the tool store for a replacement battery pack for my
KC14C Black & Decker cordless drill, as the previously repaired shorted
cells had burned out the charger - for which I'd since found a replacement
transformer, I also asked for a price on this item, and the batter had since
started self discharging.

The battery was over £46 & the charger over £18 the £46 is about what I
originally bought the drill for (special offer) and at the cut price DIY
store I could buy 3 cordless hammer drills for the combined price!

A quick rummage in the junk box turned up an Electrolux battery pack with 12
cells (I assume its for a cordless vacuum cleaner) The cells were slightly
longer than the ones in the B&D pack, but that turned out not to be a
problem since the impressively sized battery pack is half full of plastic
spacer - once this was taken out and thrown away the bigger cells fit just
fine, the battery inside the connector stem took a little more effort, it
has a plastic cap inside that centres the cell with moulded plastic webbing
to take up the slack of the shorter cell, it was easy to break most of this
away with pointed pliers and mill out the rest with a rotary drill bit in
the modelling/PCB drill.

Interestingly, a while back I found a 12V version of the drill put out by
the bins - which I obviously grabbed in case any spares were good for mine,
it turned out that all 10 cells were S/C and as usual this had burned out
the transformer. The cells were easy to "unstick" with a 12V SLA and I put
it on charge with a replacement transformer (Hayes modem transformer), it
has since worked fine with no evidence of undue self discharge.

Obviously B&D supply crap batteries with their tools, and I noticed that
when I phoned B&D to ask about spares their recorded message announced
"De-Walt and Black & Decker tools" so you won't get any better there either!
Indeed I've seen one or two threads on this group by people having trouble
with De-Walt batteries as well!

So there you go Black & Decker - if you weren't such greedy *******s you
would have made some money out of me, but instead you tried to rip me off -
so I fixed it myself, improved your crap product and told everyone what a
load of crap your product is!




--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth

So there you go Black & Decker - if you weren't such greedy *******s
you would have made some money out of me, but instead you tried to rip
me off - so I fixed it myself, improved your crap product and told
everyone what a load of crap your product is!




yeah! The rat *******s!

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

"ian field" wrote in message
...

Obviously B&D supply crap batteries with their tools, and I noticed that
when I phoned B&D to ask about spares their recorded message announced
"De-Walt and Black & Decker tools" so you won't get any better there
either!

Soon to be taken over by Lucas?

Hi!

Yesterday I went to the tool store for a replacement battery pack
for my KC14C Black & Decker cordless drill, as the previously
repaired shorted cells had burned out the charger

I could tell you about a lightly used Dustbuster that spent most of its life
on the charger. This in turn caused the batteries to burn up after a
relatively short service lifetime--maybe only two years, if that many.

I found out that--just as you say--the replacement parts are astronomically
priced whether purchased from B&D or elsewhere. I didn't have any sub-C
cells in the junkbox, and bigger ones didn't seem to work as a replacement.
They wouldn't fit.

So there you go Black & Decker - if you weren't such greedy *******s
you would have made some money out of me, but instead you tried to
rip me off - so I fixed it myself

It's not only that--it's also rather unkind to the environment to toss an
otherwise working piece of equipment and buy a new one only to have the same
thing happen. But I guess they don't really care and have slim profit
margins on each tool, so they don't really care.

I ended up saving the interesting parts from the unit, and tossing the rest.

William

The same company owns Black & Decker and DeWalt, but it doesn't
mean the product lines are identical. I use my DeWalt 18 v.
driver and trimsaw regularly, and the original battery packs
are still at about 95% capacity after six years.

I use them until they are discharged, and then I recharge them.

Maybe you are less careful with your battery packs, and
that's why you have problems.

ian field wrote:

Obviously B&D supply crap batteries with their tools, and I noticed that
when I phoned B&D to ask about spares their recorded message announced
"De-Walt and Black & Decker tools" so you won't get any better there either!
Indeed I've seen one or two threads on this group by people having trouble
with De-Walt batteries as well!

So there you go Black & Decker - if you weren't such greedy *******s you
would have made some money out of me, but instead you tried to rip me off -
so I fixed it myself, improved your crap product and told everyone what a
load of crap your product is!

ian field wrote:

Obviously B&D supply crap batteries with their tools, and I noticed that
when I phoned B&D to ask about spares their recorded message announced
"De-Walt and Black & Decker tools" so you won't get any better there either!
Indeed I've seen one or two threads on this group by people having trouble
with De-Walt batteries as well!

So there you go Black & Decker - if you weren't such greedy *******s you
would have made some money out of me, but instead you tried to rip me off -
so I fixed it myself, improved your crap product and told everyone what a
load of crap your product is!

Mike Berger wrote:

The same company owns Black & Decker and DeWalt, but it doesn't
mean the product lines are identical. I use my DeWalt 18 v.
driver and trimsaw regularly, and the original battery packs
are still at about 95% capacity after six years.

I use them until they are discharged, and then I recharge them.

Maybe you are less careful with your battery packs, and
that's why you have problems.

I've got a 12V Dewalt drill that I've had for a long time - probably
7-8 years or more. I too am careful with the packs and they have
held up well until recently. Within the last year one pack has
developed fairly serious lack of capacity, and the other is beginning
to show the signs. This is to be expected at this age...

My beef with them is that new packs list at $79.99 (Canada) while
a new 12v drill which comes with two packs is $159.99. This means
that Dewalt/B&D consider the drill disposable, encouraging people
to toss them in the landfull rather than replace the batteries. I'm sure
I will be able to rebuild the packs for less than 1/2 that, but it leaves
a bad taste...

Dave

--
Dunfield Development Services http://www.dunfield.com
Low cost software development tools for embedded systems
Software/firmware development services Fax:613-256-5821

"JR North" wrote in message
.. .
The folks in R.C.M. would appreciate this.

Who?

JR

ian field wrote:

Yesterday I went to the tool store for a replacement battery pack for my
KC14C Black & Decker cordless drill, as the previously repaired shorted
cells had burned out the charger - for which I'd since found a
replacement transformer, I also asked for a price on this item, and the
batter had since started self discharging.

The battery was over £46 & the charger over £18 the £46 is about what I
originally bought the drill for (special offer) and at the cut price DIY
store I could buy 3 cordless hammer drills for the combined price!

A quick rummage in the junk box turned up an Electrolux battery pack with
12 cells (I assume its for a cordless vacuum cleaner) The cells were
slightly longer than the ones in the B&D pack, but that turned out not to
be a problem since the impressively sized battery pack is half full of
plastic spacer - once this was taken out and thrown away the bigger cells
fit just fine, the battery inside the connector stem took a little more
effort, it has a plastic cap inside that centres the cell with moulded
plastic webbing to take up the slack of the shorter cell, it was easy to
break most of this away with pointed pliers and mill out the rest with a
rotary drill bit in the modelling/PCB drill.

Interestingly, a while back I found a 12V version of the drill put out by
the bins - which I obviously grabbed in case any spares were good for
mine, it turned out that all 10 cells were S/C and as usual this had
burned out the transformer. The cells were easy to "unstick" with a 12V
SLA and I put it on charge with a replacement transformer (Hayes modem
transformer), it has since worked fine with no evidence of undue self
discharge.

Obviously B&D supply crap batteries with their tools, and I noticed that
when I phoned B&D to ask about spares their recorded message announced
"De-Walt and Black & Decker tools" so you won't get any better there
either! Indeed I've seen one or two threads on this group by people
having trouble with De-Walt batteries as well!

So there you go Black & Decker - if you weren't such greedy *******s you
would have made some money out of me, but instead you tried to rip me
off - so I fixed it myself, improved your crap product and told everyone
what a load of crap your product is!


--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth

"Mike Berger" wrote in message
...
The same company owns Black & Decker and DeWalt, but it doesn't
mean the product lines are identical. I use my DeWalt 18 v.
driver and trimsaw regularly, and the original battery packs
are still at about 95% capacity after six years.

I use them until they are discharged, and then I recharge them.

Maybe you are less careful with your battery packs, and
that's why you have problems.

If the equipment is properly designed, it is only necessary to completely
run the batteries down to refresh them a few times a year.

Running the battery down *every* time under load leads to cells being
reverse charged and results in irrecoverable S/C cells!

ian field wrote:

"JR North" wrote in message
.. .
The folks in R.C.M. would appreciate this.

Who?


news:rec.crafts.metalworking


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

ian field wrote:

"Mike Berger" wrote in message
...
The same company owns Black & Decker and DeWalt, but it doesn't
mean the product lines are identical. I use my DeWalt 18 v.
driver and trimsaw regularly, and the original battery packs
are still at about 95% capacity after six years.

I use them until they are discharged, and then I recharge them.

Maybe you are less careful with your battery packs, and
that's why you have problems.

If the equipment is properly designed, it is only necessary to completely
run the batteries down to refresh them a few times a year.

Running the battery down *every* time under load leads to cells being
reverse charged and results in irrecoverable S/C cells!


Your concept of "Running them down" goes too far. You switch battery
packs as soon as it loses torque, and get it into the charger. DON'T
overcharge, and always rotate all the batteries for even usage.


Show me ANY tool maker that sells the batteries for much less than
that ratio. You can always buy a $20 chinese drill with an $8 battery
pack and throw away several drills a year when something breaks off
inside. Those $8 packs are made with low capacity Ni-Cads, as well.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...
ian field wrote:

"Mike Berger" wrote in message
...
The same company owns Black & Decker and DeWalt, but it doesn't
mean the product lines are identical. I use my DeWalt 18 v.
driver and trimsaw regularly, and the original battery packs
are still at about 95% capacity after six years.

I use them until they are discharged, and then I recharge them.

Maybe you are less careful with your battery packs, and
that's why you have problems.

If the equipment is properly designed, it is only necessary to completely
run the batteries down to refresh them a few times a year.

Running the battery down *every* time under load leads to cells being
reverse charged and results in irrecoverable S/C cells!


Your concept of "Running them down" goes too far. You switch battery
packs as soon as it loses torque, and get it into the charger. DON'T
overcharge, and always rotate all the batteries for even usage.


Show me ANY tool maker that sells the batteries for much less than
that ratio. You can always buy a $20 chinese drill with an $8 battery
pack and throw away several drills a year when something breaks off
inside. Those $8 packs are made with low capacity Ni-Cads, as well.

I have a couple of cheap £20 drills at different locations, apart from
slightly disappointing torque they seem every bit as robust as the B&D
drills. The first one I bought, at the time a spare battery pack was about
£5, the second one a spare battery was included in the carry case for the
whole price of £20.

Even when the B&D drill was new the £20 drill would always have enough
charge to use while the B&D was recharging having self discharged over only
a few weeks since last used!

Baron Von Nobcheese wrote:

I have a couple of cheap £20 drills at different locations, apart from
slightly disappointing torque they seem every bit as robust as the B&D
drills. The first one I bought, at the time a spare battery pack was about
£5, the second one a spare battery was included in the carry case for the
whole price of £20.

Even when the B&D drill was new the £20 drill would always have enough
charge to use while the B&D was recharging having self discharged over only
a few weeks since last used!


Good for you. but the cheap drills are almost useless to me. All
they are used for is scrapping obsolete PCs. For anything else I get out
a corded drill, or use my floor model drill press.

BTW, if you guys think cordless tools are overpriced, the first one I
saw was in the mid '60s and a new color TV cost less than the drill, and
you could have bought a used service truck for less than a new battery.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

William R. Walsh wrote:

Hi!


Yesterday I went to the tool store for a replacement battery pack
for my KC14C Black & Decker cordless drill, as the previously
repaired shorted cells had burned out the charger


I could tell you about a lightly used Dustbuster that spent most of its life
on the charger. This in turn caused the batteries to burn up after a
relatively short service lifetime--maybe only two years, if that many.

I found out that--just as you say--the replacement parts are astronomically
priced whether purchased from B&D or elsewhere. I didn't have any sub-C
cells in the junkbox, and bigger ones didn't seem to work as a replacement.
They wouldn't fit.


So there you go Black & Decker - if you weren't such greedy *******s
you would have made some money out of me, but instead you tried to
rip me off - so I fixed it myself


It's not only that--it's also rather unkind to the environment to toss an
otherwise working piece of equipment and buy a new one only to have the same
thing happen. But I guess they don't really care and have slim profit
margins on each tool, so they don't really care.

I ended up saving the interesting parts from the unit, and tossing the rest.

William


I buy cheap no name brands like (All trade) cordless drills, they come
with 2 Batteries, charger, case, drills and unit for $19.95 at our local
club.
And when the bat's fail, I save the motor,gear head and chuck to use
to make servo things like Ham radio tuning antenna's for the vehicals.


--
"I'm never wrong, once i thought i was, but was mistaken"
Real Programmers Do things like this.
http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5

So there you go Black & Decker - if you weren't such greedy *******s you
would have made some money out of me, but instead you tried to rip me
off - so I fixed it myself, improved your crap product and told everyone
what a load of crap your product is!


B&D has been Chinese crap for years now, I quit buying their stuff a long
time ago.

"James Sweet" ) writes:
So there you go Black & Decker - if you weren't such greedy *******s you
would have made some money out of me, but instead you tried to rip me
off - so I fixed it myself, improved your crap product and told everyone
what a load of crap your product is!


B&D has been Chinese crap for years now, I quit buying their stuff a long
time ago.


But who needs to buy their stuff?

My corded Black & Decker drill, variable speed but not reversible, was
bought in December of 1975, for something like $30 (I can't remember the
exact cost). The only thing I've had to do with it was replace the brushes
in the early nineties. I've not needed to buy a drill since.

The B&D drill press adaptor I bought a few years later, that still works
fine.

The B&D sabre saw I bought around 1977 still works fine.

I did buy another B&D drill, a similar model a couple of years ago
for $3.00 at a garage sale. The price was just too good, and you
never know when you might need a spare.

Michael

James Sweet wrote:

So there you go Black & Decker - if you weren't such greedy *******s you
would have made some money out of me, but instead you tried to rip me
off - so I fixed it myself, improved your crap product and told everyone
what a load of crap your product is!



B&D has been Chinese crap for years now, I quit buying their stuff a long
time ago.


Which is why I buy the no-name brands for dirt cheap and pay a lot less

I do have a recently purchased B&D cordless drill that employs a 12
volt bat with extra bat and charger + carry case only because it was at
my local club for cheap!. other than that! if I want cheap throw away
crap i'd rather pay 19 bucks for a complete set up than pay 30+ bucks
for a simply setup from B&D. since they are all made in the same place,
I can't justify paying B&D that big mark up for the same crap that's
made in the same place.

To many use to be American brands trying to push crap from china with
their name on it. A lot of people don't read close enough in the label.
Some may say, "Oh, but it's made to B&D specifications" is is wrong
basically, what they do is have a chinese maker present them an example
designed and tested by chinese engineers and B&D saids "Great" we don't
even have to pay for an engineering team any more.

Oh well. I hope with the recent down fall of the stock market over
there, people like B&D felt it.



--
"I'm never wrong, once i thought i was, but was mistaken"
Real Programmers Do things like this.
http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5

lots deleted

Many moons ago, one of my first cordless drills began to die slowly
as its battery fled. In place of buying a new battery, I opted to
shelve the unit and use a dewalt.

Much later, the old unit came off the shelf, and after some
inspection of the battery procured from a garage sale for 50 cents,
I ended up using some gel cells from a TV camera power pack. Some
power electronics inside the now empty battery, and I had me one
cheap power pack. The gel belt weighs in at 15 Pounds, provides 4 to
6 hours of juice. Battery death is about 1 in the past 10 years.
Replace cost was $20 per module. Unit carries 15 modules in all,
all supplying 12 Volts.

Sometimes you gotta fix what they will not.

"Jamie" t wrote in message
news
James Sweet wrote:

So there you go Black & Decker - if you weren't such greedy *******s you
would have made some money out of me, but instead you tried to rip me
off - so I fixed it myself, improved your crap product and told everyone
what a load of crap your product is!



B&D has been Chinese crap for years now, I quit buying their stuff a long
time ago.
Which is why I buy the no-name brands for dirt cheap and pay a lot less

I do have a recently purchased B&D cordless drill that employs a 12 volt
bat with extra bat and charger + carry case only because it was at my
local club for cheap!. other than that! if I want cheap throw away
crap i'd rather pay 19 bucks for a complete set up than pay 30+ bucks
for a simply setup from B&D. since they are all made in the same place, I
can't justify paying B&D that big mark up for the same crap that's
made in the same place.

To many use to be American brands trying to push crap from china with
their name on it. A lot of people don't read close enough in the label.
Some may say, "Oh, but it's made to B&D specifications" is is wrong
basically, what they do is have a chinese maker present them an example
designed and tested by chinese engineers and B&D saids "Great" we don't
even have to pay for an engineering team any more.

Oh well. I hope with the recent down fall of the stock market over
there, people like B&D felt it.

As far as I can tell, the cheap £19.95 drills with spare batteries I bought
were made in Germany, the Chinese made B&D drills are marginally better for
the short time the batteries last.

On 1 Jun, 15:49,

My beef with them is that new packs list at $79.99 (Canada) while
a new 12v drill which comes with two packs is $159.99. This means
that Dewalt/B&D consider the drill disposable, encouraging people
to toss them in the landfull rather than replace the batteries. I'm sure
I will be able to rebuild the packs for less than 1/2 that, but it leaves
a bad taste...

Dave

why do people expect low volume goods to sell at the same prices pro
rate as mass market goods? No use blaming B&D for the realities of
business.


NT

On 31 May, 19:33, "ian field" wrote:
Yesterday I went to the tool store for a replacement battery pack for my
KC14C Black & Decker cordless drill, as the previously repaired shorted
cells had burned out the charger - for which I'd since found a replacement
transformer, I also asked for a price on this item, and the batter had since
started self discharging.

The battery was over £46 & the charger over £18 the £46 is about what I
originally bought the drill for (special offer) and at the cut price DIY
store I could buy 3 cordless hammer drills for the combined price!

A quick rummage in the junk box turned up an Electrolux battery pack with 12
cells (I assume its for a cordless vacuum cleaner) The cells were slightly
longer than the ones in the B&D pack, but that turned out not to be a
problem since the impressively sized battery pack is half full of plastic
spacer - once this was taken out and thrown away the bigger cells fit just
fine, the battery inside the connector stem took a little more effort, it
has a plastic cap inside that centres the cell with moulded plastic webbing
to take up the slack of the shorter cell, it was easy to break most of this
away with pointed pliers and mill out the rest with a rotary drill bit in
the modelling/PCB drill.

Interestingly, a while back I found a 12V version of the drill put out by
the bins - which I obviously grabbed in case any spares were good for mine,
it turned out that all 10 cells were S/C and as usual this had burned out
the transformer. The cells were easy to "unstick" with a 12V SLA and I put
it on charge with a replacement transformer (Hayes modem transformer), it
has since worked fine with no evidence of undue self discharge.

Obviously B&D supply crap batteries with their tools, and I noticed that
when I phoned B&D to ask about spares their recorded message announced
"De-Walt and Black & Decker tools" so you won't get any better there either!
Indeed I've seen one or two threads on this group by people having trouble
with De-Walt batteries as well!

So there you go Black & Decker - if you weren't such greedy *******s you
would have made some money out of me, but instead you tried to rip me off -
so I fixed it myself, improved your crap product and told everyone what a
load of crap your product is!

I have designed for black and decker and they screw the last penny out
of suppliers so no wonder the batteries were cheap rubbish.

My beef with them is that new packs list at $79.99 (Canada) while
a new 12v drill which comes with two packs is $159.99. This means
that Dewalt/B&D consider the drill disposable, encouraging people
to toss them in the landfull rather than replace the batteries. I'm sure
I will be able to rebuild the packs for less than 1/2 that, but it leaves
a bad taste...

why do people expect low volume goods to sell at the same prices pro
rate as mass market goods? No use blaming B&D for the realities of
business.

Any why would these be low-volume items? (because the drill is
disposable due to the fact that it gets replaced for free at the same
cost of two replacement batteries). This drill has lots of life left in it,
and could easily go through several sets of batteries (in other words,
battery sales should be at least a significant portion of drill sales,
and might be an even higher total volume - with the added bonus
that fewer drills might be tossed in the landfill every year).

Nobody is suggesting that replacement packs should be the same
price as the two that are included in the drill package - but the same
price for two batteries as two batteries + drill + charger + carry case?

--
Dunfield Development Services http://www.dunfield.com
Low cost software development tools for embedded systems
Software/firmware development services Fax:613-256-5821

Dave Dunfield wrote:
My beef with them is that new packs list at $79.99 (Canada) while
a new 12v drill which comes with two packs is $159.99. This means
that Dewalt/B&D consider the drill disposable, encouraging people
to toss them in the landfull rather than replace the batteries. I'm sure
I will be able to rebuild the packs for less than 1/2 that, but it leaves
a bad taste...

why do people expect low volume goods to sell at the same prices pro
rate as mass market goods? No use blaming B&D for the realities of
business.

Any why would these be low-volume items? (because the drill is
disposable due to the fact that it gets replaced for free at the same
cost of two replacement batteries). This drill has lots of life left in it,
and could easily go through several sets of batteries (in other words,
battery sales should be at least a significant portion of drill sales,
and might be an even higher total volume - with the added bonus
that fewer drills might be tossed in the landfill every year).

Nobody is suggesting that replacement packs should be the same
price as the two that are included in the drill package - but the same
price for two batteries as two batteries + drill + charger + carry case?

Exactly...and I really can't understand the economics of it. If most
people toss the drill and buy a new one (due to the high cost of
replacement packs); how is it more profitable for the supplier? The
only reason I can think, is that the batteries are second-sourced and
not really produced by the manufacturer of the drill itself.
Consequently, they have a much higher cost to the OEM drill maker, who
is in the business of selling *drills*, not batteries.

There must be some sort of agreement in place with the battery pack
producer to not sell the specific packs to end consumers at a reasonable
cost.

jak