A 200W combo, UK made 2002, with one solder joint to a small on-end
electrolytic failed
so could be just due to vibration/resonance.
But it is on a board with obvious conical solder joints so perhaps the most
likely inherently weak joint to fail first. The larger (heatsinky) joints
are shiny and conical, redone by hand with junk solder maybe, but all the
other small joints look horribly grey. On the other board all conical joints
but all bright silvery colour. What is the consensus of the panel - redo all
the grey joints with Pb-Sn solder and leave the bright ones, or if it aint
broke - don't poke. ?

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

Have you checked for zinc migration?

I have no idea if that is still common, but I have some older 70:s and
80:s stuff where this happens on some connectors and switches that
appears to have been of incompatible material.

On May 10, 7:06 am, "N Cook" wrote:

What is the consensus of the panel - redo all
the grey joints with Pb-Sn solder and leave the bright ones, or if it aint
broke - don't poke. ?

There are some very nice silver-bearing electronics solders out there
that do not fail under stress.

http://www.all-spec.com/1/viewitem/K...nfo/w3path=cat

Comes to mind. It ain't cheap... I have used it with success, with
specific reference to R/C submarines... stressful conditions, high
dampness, vibration, several amps on the connections and considerable
heat.

Failing that, 63/37 tin/lead solder is your best bet, and my tipple of
choice for my normal (vintage radio/audio restoration/repair) uses.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

"N Cook" wrote in message
...
A 200W combo, UK made 2002, with one solder joint to a small on-end
electrolytic failed
so could be just due to vibration/resonance.
But it is on a board with obvious conical solder joints so perhaps the
most
likely inherently weak joint to fail first. The larger (heatsinky) joints
are shiny and conical, redone by hand with junk solder maybe, but all the
other small joints look horribly grey. On the other board all conical
joints
but all bright silvery colour. What is the consensus of the panel - redo
all
the grey joints with Pb-Sn solder and leave the bright ones, or if it aint
broke - don't poke. ?


I really can't make my mind up on this. All the regulars on here know my
views on lead-free solder, and I must admit that I am inclined to go over
lead-free joints that look *particularly* suspicious, with //proper//
solder, but as I've said here before, there are two schools of thought on
this among the metallurgical experts as to whether mixing lead-free and
leaded solder in the same joint, produces one with long-term compositional
stability.

Add to this that now the full legislation for RoHS is in place, as UK
repairers, we are fully obligated, officially under threat of EU law, to
repair equipment originally constructed with lead-free solder, and placed on
the market after July 2006, using *only* lead-free. This means that by
reworking a lead-free joint on such an item with leaded solder, we are
officially inviting the wrath of the solder police, and I guess, prosecution
for what they are now calling an " eco crime ".

I haven't heard of any such prosecutions yet, but in these days that we have
now where people are getting prosecuted and heavily fined for (
accidentally ) putting the wrong type of recycle waste in their household
bins, I'm sure that the day can't be far away when some poor engineer gets
tricked into breaching the legislation, by some over-zealous trading
standards person ...

Arfa

In message , Arfa Daily
writes



Add to this that now the full legislation for RoHS is in place, as UK
repairers, we are fully obligated, officially under threat of EU law, to
repair equipment originally constructed with lead-free solder, and placed on
the market after July 2006, using *only* lead-free.
Are you sure about this? My understanding is that leaded joints can
still be repaired with leaded solder.





Ian.
--

"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message , Arfa Daily
writes



Add to this that now the full legislation for RoHS is in place, as UK
repairers, we are fully obligated, officially under threat of EU law, to
repair equipment originally constructed with lead-free solder, and placed
on
the market after July 2006, using *only* lead-free.
Are you sure about this? My understanding is that leaded joints can still
be repaired with leaded solder.





Ian.
--

Read a bit more carefully - that's " lead-free " ....

Arfa

In message , Arfa Daily
writes

"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message , Arfa Daily
writes



Add to this that now the full legislation for RoHS is in place, as UK
repairers, we are fully obligated, officially under threat of EU law, to
repair equipment originally constructed with lead-free solder, and placed
on
the market after July 2006, using *only* lead-free.
Are you sure about this? My understanding is that leaded joints can still
be repaired with leaded solder.





Ian.
--

Read a bit more carefully - that's " lead-free " ....

Arfa


Oops! I misread that. Sorrrrry.
Ian.
--

"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message , Arfa Daily
writes

"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message , Arfa Daily
writes



Add to this that now the full legislation for RoHS is in place, as UK
repairers, we are fully obligated, officially under threat of EU law, to
repair equipment originally constructed with lead-free solder, and
placed
on
the market after July 2006, using *only* lead-free.
Are you sure about this? My understanding is that leaded joints can
still
be repaired with leaded solder.





Ian.
--

Read a bit more carefully - that's " lead-free " ....

Arfa


Oops! I misread that. Sorrrrry.
Ian.
--

No probs, Ian. You are right, of course. For those not familiar, the
situation is that any equipment 'placed on the market' before July 2006,
irrespective of what technology has been used to manufacture it, may be
repaired by any technology that you see fit - ie by using leaded or unleaded
solder. However, common wisdom is that if it was manufactured in lead-free,
then it should be repaired in lead-free, likewise for leaded manufacture,
used leaded solder. However, it is getting impossible to buy new components
now that are not lead-free, which //may// mean that their legs have been
dipped in a lead-free solder ...

Some manufacturers, notably Sony, have insisted for several years now, that
all of their official service centres use only lead-free to repair *all* of
their products, irrespective of original manufacture technology. The service
bulletin that was sent out by them regarding this, actually caused
considerable misunderstanding in the UK repair industry, with regard to what
was the correct legal situation. I am of the opinion that you should
probably not mix solder types if at all possible in a joint but, like most
reading this I suspect, I just can't help myself when I come across a bad
joint in a place that I know is not going to be reliable if reworked in
lead-free.

Equipment placed on the market after July 2006, must have been manufactured
in lead-free, and the directive says that we must not compromise this, so
must use lead-free solder and RoHS compliant components to effect any
repairs. The exception to this, is where an equipment has been granted an
exemption from the directive. Such equipment includes avionics and medical
and some military equipment. This will have continued to be manufactured in
leaded solder, and marketed quite legally. Repair of such items can - and in
my opinion *should* - be effected using leaded solder.

Arfa

Arfa Daily wrote in message
...

"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message , Arfa Daily
writes

"Ian Jackson" wrote in
message
...
In message , Arfa Daily
writes



Add to this that now the full legislation for RoHS is in place, as UK
repairers, we are fully obligated, officially under threat of EU law,
to
repair equipment originally constructed with lead-free solder, and
placed
on
the market after July 2006, using *only* lead-free.
Are you sure about this? My understanding is that leaded joints can
still
be repaired with leaded solder.





Ian.
--

Read a bit more carefully - that's " lead-free " ....

Arfa


Oops! I misread that. Sorrrrry.
Ian.
--

No probs, Ian. You are right, of course. For those not familiar, the
situation is that any equipment 'placed on the market' before July 2006,
irrespective of what technology has been used to manufacture it, may be
repaired by any technology that you see fit - ie by using leaded or
unleaded
solder. However, common wisdom is that if it was manufactured in
lead-free,
then it should be repaired in lead-free, likewise for leaded manufacture,
used leaded solder. However, it is getting impossible to buy new
components
now that are not lead-free, which file://may// mean that their legs have
been
dipped in a lead-free solder ...

Some manufacturers, notably Sony, have insisted for several years now,
that
all of their official service centres use only lead-free to repair *all*
of
their products, irrespective of original manufacture technology. The
service
bulletin that was sent out by them regarding this, actually caused
considerable misunderstanding in the UK repair industry, with regard to
what
was the correct legal situation. I am of the opinion that you should
probably not mix solder types if at all possible in a joint but, like most
reading this I suspect, I just can't help myself when I come across a bad
joint in a place that I know is not going to be reliable if reworked in
lead-free.

Equipment placed on the market after July 2006, must have been
manufactured
in lead-free, and the directive says that we must not compromise this, so
must use lead-free solder and RoHS compliant components to effect any
repairs. The exception to this, is where an equipment has been granted an
exemption from the directive. Such equipment includes avionics and medical
and some military equipment. This will have continued to be manufactured
in
leaded solder, and marketed quite legally. Repair of such items can - and
in
my opinion *should* - be effected using leaded solder.

Arfa



If the manufacturing date is not on the back of a bit of kit needing repair,
then presumably its a matter of saying you cannot repair anything made in or
after 2006 , then asking the owner when he thinks it was made, and then
making the appropriate comment.

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

"N Cook" wrote in message
...
Arfa Daily wrote in message
...

"Ian Jackson" wrote in
message
...
In message , Arfa Daily
writes

"Ian Jackson" wrote in
message
...
In message , Arfa Daily
writes



Add to this that now the full legislation for RoHS is in place, as UK
repairers, we are fully obligated, officially under threat of EU law,
to
repair equipment originally constructed with lead-free solder, and
placed
on
the market after July 2006, using *only* lead-free.
Are you sure about this? My understanding is that leaded joints can
still
be repaired with leaded solder.





Ian.
--

Read a bit more carefully - that's " lead-free " ....

Arfa


Oops! I misread that. Sorrrrry.
Ian.
--

No probs, Ian. You are right, of course. For those not familiar, the
situation is that any equipment 'placed on the market' before July 2006,
irrespective of what technology has been used to manufacture it, may be
repaired by any technology that you see fit - ie by using leaded or
unleaded
solder. However, common wisdom is that if it was manufactured in
lead-free,
then it should be repaired in lead-free, likewise for leaded manufacture,
used leaded solder. However, it is getting impossible to buy new
components
now that are not lead-free, which file://may// mean that their legs
have
been
dipped in a lead-free solder ...

Some manufacturers, notably Sony, have insisted for several years now,
that
all of their official service centres use only lead-free to repair *all*
of
their products, irrespective of original manufacture technology. The
service
bulletin that was sent out by them regarding this, actually caused
considerable misunderstanding in the UK repair industry, with regard to
what
was the correct legal situation. I am of the opinion that you should
probably not mix solder types if at all possible in a joint but, like
most
reading this I suspect, I just can't help myself when I come across a bad
joint in a place that I know is not going to be reliable if reworked in
lead-free.

Equipment placed on the market after July 2006, must have been
manufactured
in lead-free, and the directive says that we must not compromise this, so
must use lead-free solder and RoHS compliant components to effect any
repairs. The exception to this, is where an equipment has been granted an
exemption from the directive. Such equipment includes avionics and
medical
and some military equipment. This will have continued to be manufactured
in
leaded solder, and marketed quite legally. Repair of such items can - and
in
my opinion *should* - be effected using leaded solder.

Arfa



If the manufacturing date is not on the back of a bit of kit needing
repair,
then presumably its a matter of saying you cannot repair anything made in
or
after 2006 , then asking the owner when he thinks it was made, and then
making the appropriate comment.


As you say, this is one of the difficulties, and where a typical piece of
euro-mumbo-jumbo, however well intentioned, comes unstuck for lack of being
properly thought through in terms of the poor sods who have to be
responsible for its implementation at the sharp end. In years gone by, date
of manufacture was commonly stamped inside the cabinet, or on the chassis.
Now we're going to have to rely on our abilities to read component date
codes, or plastics moulding date clocks in the back covers.

I have, however, started to see the legend "PBF" or "PbF" appearing on
PCBs. Whilst I accept that this doesn't necessarily mean a build date ( or
marketing date ) of post July 2006, it does at least confirm what we might
already suspect just by looking at the dubious grey joints on the board, and
in theory, if only for the reason that no-one is really sure of the
long-term effects of mixing solder types, it would indicate that we should
be using lead-free to repair it.

At the end of the day, all of this is just another way to make our lives
unnecessarily complicated for no well-defined reason. For many years, my
wife owned a childrens' day nursery. It got buried in more and more and more
layers of rules and regulations until the whole day was spent in writing
reports, and trying to avoid breaching any childcare guidelines, or worse,
actual legislation, much of which was at best unnecessary and obstructive,
and at worst, total euro-nonsense. Eventually, like many independents, she
gave it up, and sold it to one of the big chains, who now dominate the
childcare business, and are the only ones who can afford to employ the legal
people to make sure that they are complying. I can see us independent repair
agents being driven out of our businesses over the next few years for the
same reasons ...

Arfa

N Cook wrote:

A 200W combo, UK made 2002, with one solder joint to a small on-end
electrolytic failed
so could be just due to vibration/resonance.
But it is on a board with obvious conical solder joints so perhaps the most
likely inherently weak joint to fail first. The larger (heatsinky) joints
are shiny and conical, redone by hand with junk solder maybe, but all the
other small joints look horribly grey. On the other board all conical joints
but all bright silvery colour. What is the consensus of the panel - redo all
the grey joints with Pb-Sn solder and leave the bright ones, or if it aint
broke - don't poke. ?

Lead-free solder joints do look grey. And they have poorer resistance to
vibration induced failure AIUI.

If you use Sn-Pb solder to repair a board with PB-free you're *breaking the law*
and Mr Lead Free Man may come along and fine you £5000 !

Graham

Thomas Tornblom wrote:

Have you checked for zinc migration?

Zinc ?

Graham

Ian Jackson wrote:

Arfa Daily writes

Add to this that now the full legislation for RoHS is in place, as UK
repairers, we are fully obligated, officially under threat of EU law, to
repair equipment originally constructed with lead-free solder, and placed on
the market after July 2006, using *only* lead-free.

Are you sure about this? My understanding is that leaded joints can
still be repaired with leaded solder.

Correct. He said 'lead-free'.

Graham

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


N Cook wrote:

A 200W combo, UK made 2002, with one solder joint to a small on-end
electrolytic failed
so could be just due to vibration/resonance.
But it is on a board with obvious conical solder joints so perhaps the
most
likely inherently weak joint to fail first. The larger (heatsinky) joints
are shiny and conical, redone by hand with junk solder maybe, but all the
other small joints look horribly grey. On the other board all conical
joints
but all bright silvery colour. What is the consensus of the panel - redo
all
the grey joints with Pb-Sn solder and leave the bright ones, or if it
aint
broke - don't poke. ?

Lead-free solder joints do look grey. And they have poorer resistance to
vibration induced failure AIUI.

If you use Sn-Pb solder to repair a board with PB-free you're *breaking
the law*
and Mr Lead Free Man may come along and fine you £5000 !

Graham


Hi Graham. Agreed on the vibration thing. As far as the 'breaking the law
bit goes, only if the equipment was " placed on the market " post July 2006.
Equipment prior to that date *can* be repaired totally legally using any
type of solder and components you like, *even* if it was originally
constructed using lead-free and RoHS compliant components ... RoHS
compliance, and maintenance of that compliance, is not required or
enforcable on pre-July 2006 equipment.

Arfa

Eeyore writes:

Thomas Tornblom wrote:

Have you checked for zinc migration?

Zinc ?

Yes.

Some connectors and switches have been made using material (brass?) in
which zinc may migrate from the pin into the solder joint, and form a
ring of isolating zinc oxide. Using a magnifying glass one can see a
thin grayish ring on the otherwise perfect solder joint.

My old Apple Macintosh plus had this problem in the deflection circuit
where it would lose vertical deflection.

Resoldering the joint gave it a few more years before it happened
again.

I also had a preamp with switches that suffered from this problem.


Graham


Thomas

On May 10, 7:06 am, "N Cook" wrote:
A 200W combo, UK made 2002, with one solder joint to a small on-end
electrolytic failed
so could be just due to vibration/resonance.
But it is on a board with obvious conical solder joints so perhaps the most
likely inherently weak joint to fail first. The larger (heatsinky) joints
are shiny and conical, redone by hand with junk solder maybe, but all the
other small joints look horribly grey. On the other board all conical joints
but all bright silvery colour. What is the consensus of the panel - redo all
the grey joints with Pb-Sn solder and leave the bright ones, or if it aint
broke - don't poke. ?

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list onhttp://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

Is this a leadfree product??? leadfree does not always look shiny and
good. older formulations are not as good as todays.
Hand soldering leadfree is an art form. Untrained workers that used
lead products does not mean they know what they are doing. Must be
retrained. I have been in manufacturing for 25 years and with
leadfree its a bitch.

The pillocks that came up with this law obviously know nothing about
electronics. I call on all servicemen everywhere to defy this stupid
legislation as it is unworkable. Stock up with with as much leaded
solder as you can and USE it! Screw the rules, I say.

"bick" wrote in message
oups.com...
On May 10, 7:06 am, "N Cook" wrote:
A 200W combo, UK made 2002, with one solder joint to a small on-end
electrolytic failed
so could be just due to vibration/resonance.
But it is on a board with obvious conical solder joints so perhaps
the most
likely inherently weak joint to fail first. The larger (heatsinky)
joints
are shiny and conical, redone by hand with junk solder maybe, but
all the
other small joints look horribly grey. On the other board all
conical joints
but all bright silvery colour. What is the consensus of the panel -
redo all
the grey joints with Pb-Sn solder and leave the bright ones, or if
it aint
broke - don't poke. ?

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list
onhttp://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

Is this a leadfree product??? leadfree does not always look shiny
and
good. older formulations are not as good as todays.
Hand soldering leadfree is an art form. Untrained workers that used
lead products does not mean they know what they are doing. Must be
retrained. I have been in manufacturing for 25 years and with
leadfree its a bitch.

"Roy the Rebel" wrote in message
...
The pillocks that came up with this law obviously know nothing about
electronics. I call on all servicemen everywhere to defy this stupid
legislation as it is unworkable. Stock up with with as much leaded solder
as you can and USE it! Screw the rules, I say.


Pillocks indeed. It is an ill-thought-through piece of legislation intended
to protect the environment from a threat which many of us believe did not
exist from lead in its solder form, in the first place. It is a typical bit
of euro-nonsense, but unfortunately, this "save the planet" hysteria, whilst
being laudable in principle, and absolutely fine if applied with common
sense, has now taken on almost the mantle of a religion, with green as its
god, and anyone who goes against it is branded as a worthless heretic.

There are now euro-zealots in just about every local council, who pursue
people through the courts for incorrect recycling or 'fly-tipping' for
putting their garbage bins out on the footpath a day early, or placing stuff
beside a locked bin at their local recycling centre and any number of other
ridiculous things that I read about in the papers just about every day. It
even now has its own name - "eco crime", and the perpetrators are "eco
criminals".

So, whilst I agree with you 100%, I'm not sure that I want to become the
first person to be pursued, persecuted, and ultimately treated to a £5000
fine, possible prison, and a criminal record, for using the 'wrong type' of
solder. Like it or not, I guess that we've got to just follow the rules,
until someone a lot more powerful than us, manages to prove that the whole
thing is a pile of gonads. Otherwise, one of us is going to finish up like
that poor greengrocer guy that stood up for his right to sell loose bananas
to little old ladies, in pounds and ounces, and finished up pursued,
villified, prosecuted and imprisoned, until the poor sod had a heart attack
and died. Just this week, his stand has proved that it can be worth it, as
the euro-crap which was going to force this ban on us totally from 2010, has
now been dropped. But I for one, don't want to test the dubious strength of
my heart, from the stress that would inevitably result from taking on these
people, do you ?

Arfa

Fortunately we now have the power of the internet. Pester the MPs with
emails. Pester the "Greens" pester anyone you can think of. Email the
newspapers. Tell everyone that this bloody madness has got to stop. I
WILL NOT USE LEAD FREE SOLDER. This is not a "green" issue, its an
electronics reliability issue. All the extra new equipment being
produced to replace the failed stuff because of crap joints, not to
mention houses burning down is NOT the way forward. Its time we put
these legislative bird brains in their place. The revolution starts
now!

"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...

"Roy the Rebel" wrote in message
...
The pillocks that came up with this law obviously know nothing
about electronics. I call on all servicemen everywhere to defy this
stupid legislation as it is unworkable. Stock up with with as much
leaded solder as you can and USE it! Screw the rules, I say.


Pillocks indeed. It is an ill-thought-through piece of legislation
intended to protect the environment from a threat which many of us
believe did not exist from lead in its solder form, in the first
place. It is a typical bit of euro-nonsense, but unfortunately, this
"save the planet" hysteria, whilst being laudable in principle, and
absolutely fine if applied with common sense, has now taken on
almost the mantle of a religion, with green as its god, and anyone
who goes against it is branded as a worthless heretic.

There are now euro-zealots in just about every local council, who
pursue people through the courts for incorrect recycling or
'fly-tipping' for putting their garbage bins out on the footpath a
day early, or placing stuff beside a locked bin at their local
recycling centre and any number of other ridiculous things that I
read about in the papers just about every day. It even now has its
own name - "eco crime", and the perpetrators are "eco criminals".

So, whilst I agree with you 100%, I'm not sure that I want to become
the first person to be pursued, persecuted, and ultimately treated
to a £5000 fine, possible prison, and a criminal record, for using
the 'wrong type' of solder. Like it or not, I guess that we've got
to just follow the rules, until someone a lot more powerful than us,
manages to prove that the whole thing is a pile of gonads.
Otherwise, one of us is going to finish up like that poor
greengrocer guy that stood up for his right to sell loose bananas to
little old ladies, in pounds and ounces, and finished up pursued,
villified, prosecuted and imprisoned, until the poor sod had a heart
attack and died. Just this week, his stand has proved that it can be
worth it, as the euro-crap which was going to force this ban on us
totally from 2010, has now been dropped. But I for one, don't want
to test the dubious strength of my heart, from the stress that would
inevitably result from taking on these people, do you ?

Arfa

In message , Arfa Daily
writes

"Roy the Rebel" wrote in message
...
The pillocks that came up with this law obviously know nothing about
electronics. I call on all servicemen everywhere to defy this stupid
legislation as it is unworkable. Stock up with with as much leaded solder
as you can and USE it! Screw the rules, I say.




Bits snipped

Like it or not, I guess that we've got to just follow the rules,
until someone a lot more powerful than us, manages to prove that the whole
thing is a pile of gonads. Otherwise, one of us is going to finish up like
that poor greengrocer guy that stood up for his right to sell loose bananas
to little old ladies, in pounds and ounces, and finished up pursued,
villified, prosecuted and imprisoned, until the poor sod had a heart attack
and died. Just this week, his stand has proved that it can be worth it, as
the euro-crap which was going to force this ban on us totally from 2010, has
now been dropped. But I for one, don't want to test the dubious strength of
my heart, from the stress that would inevitably result from taking on these
people, do you ?

It appears that the reason for relenting was because they realised that
this could affect trade with the USA who, of course, still use the
imperial system (even if the do get some of the measurements wrong), and
wouldn't accept things labelled only in metric. It's a long time since
we had something to thank the Americans for.
Ian.
--

"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
news
In message , Arfa Daily
writes

"Roy the Rebel" wrote in message
...
The pillocks that came up with this law obviously know nothing about
electronics. I call on all servicemen everywhere to defy this stupid
legislation as it is unworkable. Stock up with with as much leaded
solder
as you can and USE it! Screw the rules, I say.




Bits snipped

Like it or not, I guess that we've got to just follow the rules,
until someone a lot more powerful than us, manages to prove that the whole
thing is a pile of gonads. Otherwise, one of us is going to finish up like
that poor greengrocer guy that stood up for his right to sell loose
bananas
to little old ladies, in pounds and ounces, and finished up pursued,
villified, prosecuted and imprisoned, until the poor sod had a heart
attack
and died. Just this week, his stand has proved that it can be worth it, as
the euro-crap which was going to force this ban on us totally from 2010,
has
now been dropped. But I for one, don't want to test the dubious strength
of
my heart, from the stress that would inevitably result from taking on
these
people, do you ?

It appears that the reason for relenting was because they realised that
this could affect trade with the USA who, of course, still use the
imperial system (even if the do get some of the measurements wrong), and
wouldn't accept things labelled only in metric. It's a long time since we
had something to thank the Americans for.
Ian.
--

Yes, that's what I read too. Still, I'm glad that it's also being hailed as
a success for common sense, and that the greengrocer's stand against the
bureaucrats who started it, is being directly cited as one of the reasons
for it being dropped, even if it's not strictly true ...

Arfa

Arfa Daily wrote:

"Roy the Rebel" wrote

The pillocks that came up with this law obviously know nothing about
electronics. I call on all servicemen everywhere to defy this stupid
legislation as it is unworkable. Stock up with with as much leaded solder
as you can and USE it! Screw the rules, I say.

Pillocks indeed. It is an ill-thought-through piece of legislation intended
to protect the environment from a threat which many of us believe did not
exist from lead in its solder form, in the first place. It is a typical bit
of euro-nonsense, but unfortunately, this "save the planet" hysteria, whilst
being laudable in principle, and absolutely fine if applied with common
sense, has now taken on almost the mantle of a religion, with green as its
god, and anyone who goes against it is branded as a worthless heretic.

Spot on. And the unthinking clueless rabble who support it only care about
simplistic ideas like "lead is bad" despite its very valuable uses in many
areas.

Even worse is that their nonsense has now actually become counter-productive.
Lead-free soldering will result in shorter product lifetimes which will result
in *more waste* !!!

Graham

Eeyore wrote:

Spot on. And the unthinking clueless rabble who support it only care about
simplistic ideas like "lead is bad" despite its very valuable uses in many
areas.


Lead makes might fine bullets for the day that its time to replace a
defective government.

Does anyone else see the irony in this? Their stupid directives are
making more lead available to make the very ammunition that may be used
to remove them from office, so the can be replaced by anyone with a
brain.




--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


Arfa Daily wrote:

"Roy the Rebel" wrote

The pillocks that came up with this law obviously know nothing about
electronics. I call on all servicemen everywhere to defy this stupid
legislation as it is unworkable. Stock up with with as much leaded
solder
as you can and USE it! Screw the rules, I say.

Pillocks indeed. It is an ill-thought-through piece of legislation
intended
to protect the environment from a threat which many of us believe did not
exist from lead in its solder form, in the first place. It is a typical
bit
of euro-nonsense, but unfortunately, this "save the planet" hysteria,
whilst
being laudable in principle, and absolutely fine if applied with common
sense, has now taken on almost the mantle of a religion, with green as
its
god, and anyone who goes against it is branded as a worthless heretic.

Spot on. And the unthinking clueless rabble who support it only care about
simplistic ideas like "lead is bad" despite its very valuable uses in many
areas.

Even worse is that their nonsense has now actually become
counter-productive.
Lead-free soldering will result in shorter product lifetimes which will
result
in *more waste* !!!

Graham


I'm waiting for the day when they catch on to lead flashing on roofs. It's
the perfect product for the job, and never needs replacing in the lifetime
of the building. But wait ! Isn't that acid rain washing down over it year
in year out? Must be causing huge quantities of that naughty lead stuff to
be getting into our kids' brains and making the teachers look stupid. Better
replace it with a lead-free product that costs four times as much, and leaks
after 3 years ! Better yet, the new replacement product self degrades in
just 10 years under the influence of the sun's UV !!

Excellent ! Draft the new Euro-reg right now, and work out some penalties
for using the old stuff. Create a new department with an army of enforcement
agents, and give them each a 4x4 so that they can get to the building sites
without a problem ...

Seriously though, it's really beginning to feel like it's going that way. or
is it just me ??

Arfa

On May 16, 11:41 am, Eeyore
wrote:
Arfa Daily wrote:
"Roy the Rebel" wrote

The pillocks that came up with this law obviously know nothing about
electronics. I call on all servicemen everywhere to defy this stupid
legislation as it is unworkable. Stock up with with as much leaded solder
as you can and USE it! Screw the rules, I say.

Pillocks indeed. It is an ill-thought-through piece of legislation intended
to protect the environment from a threat which many of us believe did not
exist from lead in its solder form, in the first place. It is a typical bit
of euro-nonsense, but unfortunately, this "save the planet" hysteria, whilst
being laudable in principle, and absolutely fine if applied with common
sense, has now taken on almost the mantle of a religion, with green as its
god, and anyone who goes against it is branded as a worthless heretic.

Spot on. And the unthinking clueless rabble who support it only care about
simplistic ideas like "lead is bad" despite its very valuable uses in many
areas.

Even worse is that their nonsense has now actually become counter-productive.
Lead-free soldering will result in shorter product lifetimes which will result
in *more waste* !!!

Graham

Oh, I dunno.... I have some 95/5 tin/silver solder situations that
have lasted 20+ years of exterior conditions. In point of fact, I
chose that mix for just that reason. I also use the same mix for
critical solders where it is a double-major PITA to get to them in
case of future failure.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

wrote in message
ups.com...
On May 16, 11:41 am, Eeyore
wrote:
Arfa Daily wrote:
"Roy the Rebel" wrote

The pillocks that came up with this law obviously know nothing about
electronics. I call on all servicemen everywhere to defy this stupid
legislation as it is unworkable. Stock up with with as much leaded
solder
as you can and USE it! Screw the rules, I say.

Pillocks indeed. It is an ill-thought-through piece of legislation
intended
to protect the environment from a threat which many of us believe did
not
exist from lead in its solder form, in the first place. It is a typical
bit
of euro-nonsense, but unfortunately, this "save the planet" hysteria,
whilst
being laudable in principle, and absolutely fine if applied with common
sense, has now taken on almost the mantle of a religion, with green as
its
god, and anyone who goes against it is branded as a worthless heretic.

Spot on. And the unthinking clueless rabble who support it only care
about
simplistic ideas like "lead is bad" despite its very valuable uses in
many
areas.

Even worse is that their nonsense has now actually become
counter-productive.
Lead-free soldering will result in shorter product lifetimes which will
result
in *more waste* !!!

Graham

Oh, I dunno.... I have some 95/5 tin/silver solder situations that
have lasted 20+ years of exterior conditions. In point of fact, I
chose that mix for just that reason. I also use the same mix for
critical solders where it is a double-major PITA to get to them in
case of future failure.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA


I bet that needs a hot iron ! d;~}

Arfa

On May 17, 4:28 am, "Arfa Daily" wrote:
wrote in message

ups.com...





On May 16, 11:41 am, Eeyore
wrote:
Arfa Daily wrote:
"Roy the Rebel" wrote

The pillocks that came up with this law obviously know nothing about
electronics. I call on all servicemen everywhere to defy this stupid
legislation as it is unworkable. Stock up with with as much leaded
solder
as you can and USE it! Screw the rules, I say.

Pillocks indeed. It is an ill-thought-through piece of legislation
intended
to protect the environment from a threat which many of us believe did
not
exist from lead in its solder form, in the first place. It is a typical
bit
of euro-nonsense, but unfortunately, this "save the planet" hysteria,
whilst
being laudable in principle, and absolutely fine if applied with common
sense, has now taken on almost the mantle of a religion, with green as
its
god, and anyone who goes against it is branded as a worthless heretic.

Spot on. And the unthinking clueless rabble who support it only care
about
simplistic ideas like "lead is bad" despite its very valuable uses in
many
areas.

Even worse is that their nonsense has now actually become
counter-productive.
Lead-free soldering will result in shorter product lifetimes which will
result
in *more waste* !!!

Graham

Oh, I dunno.... I have some 95/5 tin/silver solder situations that
have lasted 20+ years of exterior conditions. In point of fact, I
chose that mix for just that reason. I also use the same mix for
critical solders where it is a double-major PITA to get to them in
case of future failure.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

I bet that needs a hot iron ! d;~}

Arfa- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No more so than regular 63/37, as it happens. Rosin core as well and
rated for electronics. I use a fairly fine solder, and work on the
theory that a short amount of hot iron is better for the components at
hand than a longer amount of (slightly) lower heat. NOT CHEAP! But in
the natural order of things, cheaper than a call-back.

wrote in message
oups.com...
On May 17, 4:28 am, "Arfa Daily" wrote:
wrote in message

ups.com...





On May 16, 11:41 am, Eeyore
wrote:
Arfa Daily wrote:
"Roy the Rebel" wrote

The pillocks that came up with this law obviously know nothing
about
electronics. I call on all servicemen everywhere to defy this
stupid
legislation as it is unworkable. Stock up with with as much leaded
solder
as you can and USE it! Screw the rules, I say.

Pillocks indeed. It is an ill-thought-through piece of legislation
intended
to protect the environment from a threat which many of us believe
did
not
exist from lead in its solder form, in the first place. It is a
typical
bit
of euro-nonsense, but unfortunately, this "save the planet"
hysteria,
whilst
being laudable in principle, and absolutely fine if applied with
common
sense, has now taken on almost the mantle of a religion, with green
as
its
god, and anyone who goes against it is branded as a worthless
heretic.

Spot on. And the unthinking clueless rabble who support it only care
about
simplistic ideas like "lead is bad" despite its very valuable uses in
many
areas.

Even worse is that their nonsense has now actually become
counter-productive.
Lead-free soldering will result in shorter product lifetimes which
will
result
in *more waste* !!!

Graham

Oh, I dunno.... I have some 95/5 tin/silver solder situations that
have lasted 20+ years of exterior conditions. In point of fact, I
chose that mix for just that reason. I also use the same mix for
critical solders where it is a double-major PITA to get to them in
case of future failure.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

I bet that needs a hot iron ! d;~}

Arfa- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No more so than regular 63/37, as it happens. Rosin core as well and
rated for electronics. I use a fairly fine solder, and work on the
theory that a short amount of hot iron is better for the components at
hand than a longer amount of (slightly) lower heat. NOT CHEAP! But in
the natural order of things, cheaper than a call-back.


Interesting. I'll take a further look into it.

Arfa

" wrote in news:1179416815.521292.162120
@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com:

No more so than regular 63/37, as it happens. Rosin core as well and
rated for electronics. I use a fairly fine solder, and work on the
theory that a short amount of hot iron is better for the components at
hand than a longer amount of (slightly) lower heat. NOT CHEAP! But in
the natural order of things, cheaper than a call-back.



http://www.asset-
intertech.com/pressroom/whitePapers/Lead_free_whitepaper.pdf

Melting Point.
40/60. 230°C.
50/50. 214°C.
60/40. 190°C.
63/37. 183°C.
95/5. 224°C



--
bz 73 de N5BZ k

please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an
infinite set.

remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap

On May 17, 3:43 pm, bz wrote:
" wrote in news:1179416815.521292.162120
@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com:

No more so than regular 63/37, as it happens. Rosin core as well and
rated for electronics. I use a fairly fine solder, and work on the
theory that a short amount of hot iron is better for the components at
hand than a longer amount of (slightly) lower heat. NOT CHEAP! But in
the natural order of things, cheaper than a call-back.

http://www.asset-
intertech.com/pressroom/whitePapers/Lead_free_whitepaper.pdf

Melting Point.
40/60. 230°C.
50/50. 214°C.
60/40. 190°C.
63/37. 183°C.
95/5. 224°C

--
bz 73 de N5BZ k

please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an
infinite set.

remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap

You are correct, my 95/5 has been discontinued, the 'new' replacement
is:

http://www.hmcelectronics.com/cgi-bi...uct/4800-0104/

with a melting point of ~217C.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

Arfa Daily wrote:


"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


Arfa Daily wrote:

"Roy the Rebel" wrote

The pillocks that came up with this law obviously know nothing about
electronics. I call on all servicemen everywhere to defy this stupid
legislation as it is unworkable. Stock up with with as much leaded
solder
as you can and USE it! Screw the rules, I say.

Pillocks indeed. It is an ill-thought-through piece of legislation
intended
to protect the environment from a threat which many of us believe did
not exist from lead in its solder form, in the first place. It is a
typical bit
of euro-nonsense, but unfortunately, this "save the planet" hysteria,
whilst
being laudable in principle, and absolutely fine if applied with common
sense, has now taken on almost the mantle of a religion, with green as
its
god, and anyone who goes against it is branded as a worthless heretic.

Spot on. And the unthinking clueless rabble who support it only care
about simplistic ideas like "lead is bad" despite its very valuable uses
in many areas.

Even worse is that their nonsense has now actually become
counter-productive.
Lead-free soldering will result in shorter product lifetimes which will
result
in *more waste* !!!

Graham


I'm waiting for the day when they catch on to lead flashing on roofs. It's
the perfect product for the job, and never needs replacing in the lifetime
of the building. But wait ! Isn't that acid rain washing down over it year
in year out? Must be causing huge quantities of that naughty lead stuff to
be getting into our kids' brains and making the teachers look stupid.
Better replace it with a lead-free product that costs four times as much,
and leaks after 3 years ! Better yet, the new replacement product self
degrades in just 10 years under the influence of the sun's UV !!

Excellent ! Draft the new Euro-reg right now, and work out some penalties
for using the old stuff. Create a new department with an army of
enforcement agents, and give them each a 4x4 so that they can get to the
building sites without a problem ...

Seriously though, it's really beginning to feel like it's going that way.
or is it just me ??

Arfa

No way, ordinary consumers would understand and object to banning of lead
flashing, whereas complaining about solder seems a bit too geeky and so
won't make the news. The only time I ever saw anything about RoHS in the
ordinary news was when some church-organ-maker was complaining because the
traditional material for his lead organ pipes would be banned unless he
replaced the electric blower with some kind of manual pump, to make it
non-electric. Of course that got an exception, something like because it
was a fixed installation in the building. I wonder if you nail down your
TV to the floor.....

Seriously though, aluminium flashing (not alloy but very PURE aluminium)
will last quite a long time in the rain (according to my grandfather who
would probably have known, because he did build rooves over a period of
well over half a century. He was also a big fan of lead paint and hated
the new stuff because it wouldn't last hardly any time, probably not even
50 years...)

Chris

wrote:

On May 17, 3:43 pm, bz wrote:

" wrote in news:1179416815.521292.162120
:


No more so than regular 63/37, as it happens. Rosin core as well and
rated for electronics. I use a fairly fine solder, and work on the
theory that a short amount of hot iron is better for the components at
hand than a longer amount of (slightly) lower heat. NOT CHEAP! But in
the natural order of things, cheaper than a call-back.

http://www.asset-
intertech.com/pressroom/whitePapers/Lead_free_whitepaper.pdf

Melting Point.
40/60. 230°C.
50/50. 214°C.
60/40. 190°C.
63/37. 183°C.
95/5. 224°C

--
bz 73 de N5BZ k

please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an
infinite set.

remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap


You are correct, my 95/5 has been discontinued, the 'new' replacement
is:

http://www.hmcelectronics.com/cgi-bi...uct/4800-0104/

with a melting point of ~217C.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

I use some that is 95/5 TIN/COPPER. it works ok.
I just don't like the finish.


--
"I'm never wrong, once i thought i was, but was mistaken"
Real Programmers Do things like this.
http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5

Jamie t wrote in
:

wrote:

On May 17, 3:43 pm, bz wrote:

....
You are correct, my 95/5 has been discontinued, the 'new' replacement
is:

http://www.hmcelectronics.com/cgi-bi...uct/4800-0104/

with a melting point of ~217C.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

I use some that is 95/5 TIN/COPPER. it works ok.
I just don't like the finish.

Not surprising as 95/5 tin/copper is NOT a eutectic mixture.

You do NOT want to use non eutectic mixtures as they pass through a
plastic stage when cooling('cold solder joints' if disturbed during
plastic state) and their melting point is higher than the eutectic.


Tin-Copper eutectic (Sn99.3/Cu0.7) 227 c
Tin-Silver eutectic (Sn96.5/Ag3.5) 221 c
CASTIN® eutectic (Sn96.2/Ag2.5/Cu0.8/Sb0.5) 216 c
http://www.smtinfo.net/Db/_Solder%20Alloy.html

CASTIN looks like a good bet.


--
bz 73 de N5BZ k

please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an
infinite set.

remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap

No way, ordinary consumers would understand and object to banning of lead
flashing, whereas complaining about solder seems a bit too geeky and so
won't make the news. The only time I ever saw anything about RoHS in the
ordinary news was when some church-organ-maker was complaining because the
traditional material for his lead organ pipes would be banned unless he
replaced the electric blower with some kind of manual pump, to make it
non-electric. Of course that got an exception, something like because it
was a fixed installation in the building. I wonder if you nail down your
TV to the floor.....

Seriously though, aluminium flashing (not alloy but very PURE aluminium)
will last quite a long time in the rain (according to my grandfather who
would probably have known, because he did build rooves over a period of
well over half a century. He was also a big fan of lead paint and hated
the new stuff because it wouldn't last hardly any time, probably not even
50 years...)

Chris





Wiltshire | Archive | 2006 | March | 23
EU directive prompts fears for cathedral's organ

From the Salisbury Journal, first published Thursday 23rd Mar 2006.

MUSIC-LOVERS are keeping their fingers crossed that Salisbury Cathedral's
historic Father Willis organ will be renovated before the latest EU
directive comes into force a ruling that could silence the grand pipe organs
found in cathedrals, churches and concert halls across the UK.

Salisbury's magnificent organ, built in 1877, is currently out of service,
as its console is undergoing repair and restoration in Durham, along with
the equally famous organ from the Royal Festival Hall in London.

The new directive from the European Commission aims to reduce the amount of
lead used in electrical items and comes into force on July 1.

This week, Tim Hone, director of liturgy and music at Salisbury cathedral,
said that, providing the organ's repair and updating was completed before
that date, it would not contravene the directive.

He told the Journal: "We are anticipating its return around Easter, which
will give us plenty of time. But if anything delays the work, we could run
into problems."

He said the directive sought to minimise the amount of hazardous waste that
finds its way into landfill. Lead is one such hazard and the new regulations
permit electrical equipment to have a maximum of 0.1 per cent of their
weight as lead.

Organ pipes, which are made from tin and lead to give them their distinct
sound, can have a lead content of 50 per cent.

Mr Hone said that, although organ pipes were mainly mechanical devices, they
relied on electrical motors to power blowers, which move air through them
and that brought the organ into the definition of an electrical product.

But organ experts are baffled as to why the directive should apply to
organs, because, when organs are rebuilt, the lead is not thrown away but is
reused in new or different pipes.

The directive has worried the Institute of British Organ Building because it
could see the end of the 1,000-year-old craft of organ-building in Britain.
The institute said: "There is a very black cloud on the horizon".

Tony Baldry, Tory MP for Banbury, is urging the government to intervene to
save the organ. The department of trade and industry has warned that Britain
must comply with the directive, although exemptions could be granted by the
EU.

Mr Hone said that, unless an exemption were made or the directive redrafted,
Salisbury will face the problem again the next time the organ pipes need
cleaning and restoration.

from
http://archive.salisburyjournal.co.u...23/266296.html

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

"N Cook" wrote in message
...

No way, ordinary consumers would understand and object to banning of lead
flashing, whereas complaining about solder seems a bit too geeky and so
won't make the news. The only time I ever saw anything about RoHS in the
ordinary news was when some church-organ-maker was complaining because
the
traditional material for his lead organ pipes would be banned unless he
replaced the electric blower with some kind of manual pump, to make it
non-electric. Of course that got an exception, something like because it
was a fixed installation in the building. I wonder if you nail down your
TV to the floor.....

Seriously though, aluminium flashing (not alloy but very PURE aluminium)
will last quite a long time in the rain (according to my grandfather who
would probably have known, because he did build rooves over a period of
well over half a century. He was also a big fan of lead paint and hated
the new stuff because it wouldn't last hardly any time, probably not even
50 years...)

Chris





Wiltshire | Archive | 2006 | March | 23
EU directive prompts fears for cathedral's organ

From the Salisbury Journal, first published Thursday 23rd Mar 2006.

MUSIC-LOVERS are keeping their fingers crossed that Salisbury Cathedral's
historic Father Willis organ will be renovated before the latest EU
directive comes into force a ruling that could silence the grand pipe
organs
found in cathedrals, churches and concert halls across the UK.

Salisbury's magnificent organ, built in 1877, is currently out of service,
as its console is undergoing repair and restoration in Durham, along with
the equally famous organ from the Royal Festival Hall in London.

The new directive from the European Commission aims to reduce the amount
of
lead used in electrical items and comes into force on July 1.

This week, Tim Hone, director of liturgy and music at Salisbury cathedral,
said that, providing the organ's repair and updating was completed before
that date, it would not contravene the directive.

He told the Journal: "We are anticipating its return around Easter, which
will give us plenty of time. But if anything delays the work, we could run
into problems."

He said the directive sought to minimise the amount of hazardous waste
that
finds its way into landfill. Lead is one such hazard and the new
regulations
permit electrical equipment to have a maximum of 0.1 per cent of their
weight as lead.

Organ pipes, which are made from tin and lead to give them their distinct
sound, can have a lead content of 50 per cent.

Mr Hone said that, although organ pipes were mainly mechanical devices,
they
relied on electrical motors to power blowers, which move air through them
and that brought the organ into the definition of an electrical product.

But organ experts are baffled as to why the directive should apply to
organs, because, when organs are rebuilt, the lead is not thrown away but
is
reused in new or different pipes.

The directive has worried the Institute of British Organ Building because
it
could see the end of the 1,000-year-old craft of organ-building in
Britain.
The institute said: "There is a very black cloud on the horizon".

Tony Baldry, Tory MP for Banbury, is urging the government to intervene to
save the organ. The department of trade and industry has warned that
Britain
must comply with the directive, although exemptions could be granted by
the
EU.

Mr Hone said that, unless an exemption were made or the directive
redrafted,
Salisbury will face the problem again the next time the organ pipes need
cleaning and restoration.

from
http://archive.salisburyjournal.co.u...23/266296.html


I saw a similar thing up here, but I think in the end, it turned out to be
hysterical nonsense, and that the organ builders had basically done what the
people who made this crap legislation in the first place had done - which is
to not to do their homework right in the first place. I seem to remember
reading subsequently that it was not the pipework that was going to be
affected, but the control electronics. I'm no expert in pipe organ
restoration, but I understand that when they are rebuilt and brought up to
date, various control electronics are added now, and that it was going to be
this that would be affected. One such organ builder complained that it was
going to put his current restoration project back six months, because that
was how long it was going to take his electronics supplier, to tool up for
the legislation.

Arfa

Arfa Daily wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


Arfa Daily wrote:

"Roy the Rebel" wrote

The pillocks that came up with this law obviously know nothing about
electronics. I call on all servicemen everywhere to defy this stupid
legislation as it is unworkable. Stock up with with as much leaded
solder
as you can and USE it! Screw the rules, I say.

Pillocks indeed. It is an ill-thought-through piece of legislation
intended
to protect the environment from a threat which many of us believe did not
exist from lead in its solder form, in the first place. It is a typical
bit
of euro-nonsense, but unfortunately, this "save the planet" hysteria,
whilst
being laudable in principle, and absolutely fine if applied with common
sense, has now taken on almost the mantle of a religion, with green as
its
god, and anyone who goes against it is branded as a worthless heretic.

Spot on. And the unthinking clueless rabble who support it only care about
simplistic ideas like "lead is bad" despite its very valuable uses in many
areas.

Even worse is that their nonsense has now actually become
counter-productive.
Lead-free soldering will result in shorter product lifetimes which will
result
in *more waste* !!!

Graham


I'm waiting for the day when they catch on to lead flashing on roofs. It's
the perfect product for the job, and never needs replacing in the lifetime
of the building. But wait ! Isn't that acid rain washing down over it year
in year out? Must be causing huge quantities of that naughty lead stuff to
be getting into our kids' brains and making the teachers look stupid. Better
replace it with a lead-free product that costs four times as much, and leaks
after 3 years ! Better yet, the new replacement product self degrades in
just 10 years under the influence of the sun's UV !!

Excellent ! Draft the new Euro-reg right now, and work out some penalties
for using the old stuff. Create a new department with an army of enforcement
agents, and give them each a 4x4 so that they can get to the building sites
without a problem ...

Seriously though, it's really beginning to feel like it's going that way. or
is it just me ??

Arfa


How about this one:
http://ellsworthmaine.com/site/index...46&Ite mid=31

Not lead, but mercury in compact flourescent bulbs, and what happens
when you have imbecile who gets the government involved.

Jerry

"Jerry Peters" wrote in message
...
Arfa Daily wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


Arfa Daily wrote:

"Roy the Rebel" wrote

The pillocks that came up with this law obviously know nothing about
electronics. I call on all servicemen everywhere to defy this stupid
legislation as it is unworkable. Stock up with with as much leaded
solder
as you can and USE it! Screw the rules, I say.

Pillocks indeed. It is an ill-thought-through piece of legislation
intended
to protect the environment from a threat which many of us believe did
not
exist from lead in its solder form, in the first place. It is a typical
bit
of euro-nonsense, but unfortunately, this "save the planet" hysteria,
whilst
being laudable in principle, and absolutely fine if applied with common
sense, has now taken on almost the mantle of a religion, with green as
its
god, and anyone who goes against it is branded as a worthless heretic.

Spot on. And the unthinking clueless rabble who support it only care
about
simplistic ideas like "lead is bad" despite its very valuable uses in
many
areas.

Even worse is that their nonsense has now actually become
counter-productive.
Lead-free soldering will result in shorter product lifetimes which will
result
in *more waste* !!!

Graham


I'm waiting for the day when they catch on to lead flashing on roofs.
It's
the perfect product for the job, and never needs replacing in the
lifetime
of the building. But wait ! Isn't that acid rain washing down over it
year
in year out? Must be causing huge quantities of that naughty lead stuff
to
be getting into our kids' brains and making the teachers look stupid.
Better
replace it with a lead-free product that costs four times as much, and
leaks
after 3 years ! Better yet, the new replacement product self degrades in
just 10 years under the influence of the sun's UV !!

Excellent ! Draft the new Euro-reg right now, and work out some penalties
for using the old stuff. Create a new department with an army of
enforcement
agents, and give them each a 4x4 so that they can get to the building
sites
without a problem ...

Seriously though, it's really beginning to feel like it's going that way.
or
is it just me ??

Arfa


How about this one:
http://ellsworthmaine.com/site/index...46&Ite mid=31

Not lead, but mercury in compact flourescent bulbs, and what happens
when you have imbecile who gets the government involved.

Jerry

Oh boy - don't start me on that one. The Euro-****s are already on this.
They are now trying to totally ban the sale of all incandescent light bulbs
in Europe, by 2010 I think it is. It has been advocated by that Merkel woman
from Germany, I believe, and of course, Blair has signed up to it without
question. All in the name of the great god "Green" again.

In theory, CFLs already contain more mercury than can be legally disposed of
at a council tip. My local tip ( Borough Council Recycling Centre - Ha ! )
has facilities for taking ordinary fluorescent tubes off you, but no
specific facilities for CFLs. Winter in our latitudes are cold and dark -
just ideal for CFLs - NOT!! When I turn a light on, irrespective of what the
air temperature is, I want LIGHT. I do not want to have to wait 3 minutes
whilst the bloody thing warms up and goes through a range of colours from
cat urine yellow to Venus on a summer's night white ...

As far as the 'lack of efficiency' thing goes, there is a groundswell of
alternate opinion on this, in that the 'wasted' energy is released as heat,
which actually serves to offset the heating requirements of the house, given
that most dwellings these days are well insulated to *prevent* the loss of
heat to the outside. So for every 50 watts of lost efficiency from a 60 watt
light bulb, that's basically 50 watts of house heating not required. If this
additional input is lost, then it will have to be put back in from the
outside.

Then there's the fact that CFLs contain a switching inverter circuit,
containing a number of components that all have to be manufactured, then
shipped, then assembled onto a pcb that has to be made and shipped. Then all
of that has to be integrated into a package design that is much more complex
to manufacture, and containing many more component parts than a conventional
light bulb. Remember that all of those parts have to be made and shipped as
well. Now add in a smattering of dangerous chemicals, including mercury and
the tri-phosphor compounds employed to turn the UV into visible light, and
what do you finish up with ? A potentially dangerous household item ( see
Jerry's article link ) that weighs twice as much as a conventional bulb - so
needs a higher energy budget for shipping - that's actually not terribly
good at doing what's needed of it, which is supplying light of a good visual
quality, in the quantities needed, exactly //when// and //where// it's
needed ...

Just as an additional aside, these things can also be sources of huge
quantities of RF noise spanning great swathes of RF spectrum over
significant physical distances, when they get old, or when the caps in the
inverter start going bad.

See - I told you that you shouldn't get me started on this one ... !! d:~}

Arfa

Arfa Daily wrote:

Oh boy - don't start me on that one. The Euro-****s are already on this.
They are now trying to totally ban the sale of all incandescent light bulbs
in Europe, by 2010 I think it is.

Since when ?

It's the Australians doing that AIUI, not the EU.

In any case both GE and Philips reckon they'll have halogen lamps operating at similar
efficiencies to CFLs by around that time, so any ban on *incandescents* would be pure
madness.

A tax related to (in)efficiency might make some sense.

Graham

In message , Eeyore
writes


Arfa Daily wrote:

Oh boy - don't start me on that one. The Euro-****s are already on this.
They are now trying to totally ban the sale of all incandescent light bulbs
in Europe, by 2010 I think it is.

Since when ?

It's the Australians doing that AIUI, not the EU.

In any case both GE and Philips reckon they'll have halogen lamps
operating at similar
efficiencies to CFLs by around that time, so any ban on *incandescents*
would be pure
madness.

A tax related to (in)efficiency might make some sense.

Graham


If we end up with a ban on incandescent lamps and fluorescent lamps,
we'll have to go back to burning whale oil.
Ian.
--

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


Arfa Daily wrote:

Oh boy - don't start me on that one. The Euro-****s are already on this.
They are now trying to totally ban the sale of all incandescent light
bulbs
in Europe, by 2010 I think it is.

Since when ?

It's the Australians doing that AIUI, not the EU.

In any case both GE and Philips reckon they'll have halogen lamps
operating at similar
efficiencies to CFLs by around that time, so any ban on *incandescents*
would be pure
madness.

A tax related to (in)efficiency might make some sense.

Graham


Look again Graham. The EU - specifically Merkel - have signed up to the same
thing as Aus is already doing ... There was a big article in the M.o.S. I
think it was about 6 weeks ago. Look at

http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/...page_id=181 1

Arfa