Homer J Simpson wrote:
All US kitchen outlets (except in really OLD houses) have 220 volts - it's
required by code. It's easy to add an outlet with the right socket for 220.

Actually it's rated as 240 volts, but is often higher. It's twice the
normal line voltage which while claimed to be 120 volts is usually
127 or so.

It may be a little high for older devices that were designed for 220 volts.
Almost all of them have a switch in the back to adjust for various input
voltages. Anything made in the last 10-15 years, with the exception of
high powered amateur radio amplifers should have no trouble with it.

The U.K. used to be 240 volts, Western Europe used to be 220, now they
(the entire E.U.) are 230 volts. Except for the freqency, U.S. 240
volt power works fine.

So while you bought what you think was a 220 volt unit, it probably was
made for 230 volts. That way it would work in the E.U. and the rest of
the world that used 220 or 240.

Anyone reading this in OZ or S.A.? Do you still use 240 volts?

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 Fax ONLY: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/

Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
The U.K. used to be 240 volts, Western Europe used to be 220, now they
(the entire E.U.) are 230 volts. Except for the freqency, U.S. 240
volt power works fine.

Here in the UK we still are 240V (at least here in the city of Bristol anyway)

A helpful quote from Wikipedia:

"Following voltage harmonisation co-ordinated with CENELEC countries, all electricity
supply within the EU is now nominally 230 V ± 10% (though some countries have
stricter specifications: for example, the UK specifies 230 V +10% ˆ’6%). In practice
this means that countries such as the UK that previously supplied 240 V continue to
do so, and those that previously supplied 220 V continue to do so."

Richard

On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 23:51:33 GMT, Ken Weitzel
wrote:

Hi...

There's a wiring diagram here (down at the bottom of the page - for a
120 volt machine, if it's of any help at all.


http://www.partsguru.com/GaggiaClass...ring%20diagram


Humm, that diagram shows two heating elements, that for 120 volts are
wired in parallel. I bet for 240 volts they wire 'em in series, which
is what the OP is hinting at.

Wow. You guys are AMAZING!

The wiring schematic is of great help. The tech told me he could not
find one and I waited a week while he could not get one sent to him,
and you guys direct me to it within a few hours. Sheesh.

I think the tech wanted to replace ALL wires. He said that the 220
wires are thinner and get warm. He also did not seem to know where
the refurbisher when wrong, so he wanted to replace everything and
wire the way it should be for 110.

What you are saying about the the wiring being "in series" instead of
"in parallel" I think would make a lot of sense to the him. He
initially thought that somewhere "two wires had been reversed" which
lead to a "return of power". I think this meant his testing indicated
that heating elements were not receiving all the power. Which sounds
like what you are saying.

He further said that the refurbisher seems to have just replaced all
the components and then hooked the wiring up as it was, which he said
is wrong and again, seems to be what you are diagnosing here.

Thank you for the insight. I have the machine back now. I am plannning
on returning it to the original seller. I suspect he does not want to
give me my money back. So I guess I should ask him to wire it in
parallel instead of in series and I should be good to go.

Thanks again.


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bigjuggler wrote:
Wow. You guys are AMAZING!

The wiring schematic is of great help. The tech told me he could not
find one and I waited a week while he could not get one sent to him,
and you guys direct me to it within a few hours. Sheesh.

I think the tech wanted to replace ALL wires. He said that the 220
wires are thinner and get warm. He also did not seem to know where
the refurbisher when wrong, so he wanted to replace everything and
wire the way it should be for 110.

What you are saying about the the wiring being "in series" instead of
"in parallel" I think would make a lot of sense to the him. He
initially thought that somewhere "two wires had been reversed" which
lead to a "return of power". I think this meant his testing indicated
that heating elements were not receiving all the power. Which sounds
like what you are saying.

He further said that the refurbisher seems to have just replaced all
the components and then hooked the wiring up as it was, which he said
is wrong and again, seems to be what you are diagnosing here.

Thank you for the insight. I have the machine back now. I am plannning
on returning it to the original seller. I suspect he does not want to
give me my money back. So I guess I should ask him to wire it in
parallel instead of in series and I should be good to go.

Thanks again.

I'll take mine with cream and sugar, please

Take care.

Ken

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote in message
...
Homer J Simpson wrote:
All US kitchen outlets (except in really OLD houses) have 220 volts -
it's
required by code. It's easy to add an outlet with the right socket for
220.

Actually it's rated as 240 volts, but is often higher. It's twice the
normal line voltage which while claimed to be 120 volts is usually
127 or so.

In an apartment it's often 208 volts. Since the device has a thermostat,
it's probably fine on 240 V in any case.

Homer J Simpson wrote:
All US kitchen outlets (except in really OLD houses) have 220 volts - it's
required by code. It's easy to add an outlet with the right socket for 220.

Maybe my brain is low on caffeine, but I'm having trouble processing this.
Tell me where I could find 208, 220, 230, 240 or other similar voltage
in my kitchen, please. My house is ten years old.

--
"...global warming is an apocalyptic faith whose preachers demand sacrifices
of others that they find far too painful for themselves."
-- Andrew Bolt, in Australia's Herald Sun

"clifto" wrote in message
...

Homer J Simpson wrote:
All US kitchen outlets (except in really OLD houses) have 220 volts -
it's
required by code. It's easy to add an outlet with the right socket for
220.

Maybe my brain is low on caffeine, but I'm having trouble processing this.
Tell me where I could find 208, 220, 230, 240 or other similar voltage
in my kitchen, please. My house is ten years old.

IF YOU HAVE THE SKILLS, measure from hot to hot at any kitchen outlet. You
will find a voltage from 208 to 240 volts. Mine is 241 volts.

BTW, all electric ranges also run on 208/240.

clifto wrote:
Homer J Simpson wrote:
All US kitchen outlets (except in really OLD houses) have 220 volts - it's
required by code. It's easy to add an outlet with the right socket for 220.

Maybe my brain is low on caffeine, but I'm having trouble processing this.
Tell me where I could find 208, 220, 230, 240 or other similar voltage
in my kitchen, please. My house is ten years old.

That's a hidden feature of the U.S. electrical system. Almost everywhere,
the distribution transformer puts out 240 volts. The secret is that
it has a center tap (a connection in the middle of the secondary winding)
that is grounded.

So between the wires, it's 240 volts. Between each wire and ground, it's
120 volts. The U.S. standard is to run 240 volts to the main distribution
panel in a building and there have one ground. One is used as a neutral,
and the other as a saftey ground.

Wires run to outlets are usually three wires, a hot wire connected eventualy
to one side of the transformer, a neutral wire, which returns the power
to ground, completing the 120 volt circuit, and a smaller saftey ground wire.

For air conditioners, stoves and dryers, there is usually three wires,
one to each side of the transformer, and a saftey ground. These outlets
are 240 volts.

Often for places where there is a large load expected four wires are run,
One to each side of the transformer, an equal sized neutral and a saftey ground.
When they are connected to a dual outlet, the hot wires are connected to
seperate outlets,they share the neutral and saftey ground. It's not
a problem because the neutral does not carry the full load return,
only the difference.

If you have an outlet for a stove, an air conditioner, or a dual fed outlet,
then it's simple to install a 240 volt outlet for your coffee maker.

The two problems with doing so, is that if the circuit is used for something
else, such as a stove or dryer, you may have problems with making coffee
while drying your clothes or baking. Nothing dangerous, just the circuit
breaker will "pop", turning them off.

The other problem is that since it will now be connected to an counter top
outlet as opposed to a semi permanent connection, you will need a 240 volt
ground fault interupter (GFI) instead of 2 seperate 120 volt ones.

Any large electrical supply store will have all the needed parts, and
any competent electrician will be able to install them.

This of course assumes you have a line like that in your kitchen or can
have one run.


Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 Fax ONLY: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/

On Thu, 01 Mar 2007 16:10:07 -0600, clifto wrote:

Homer J Simpson wrote:
All US kitchen outlets (except in really OLD houses) have 220 volts - it's
required by code. It's easy to add an outlet with the right socket for 220.


First, the only 240 (note: there is *NO* 220 volt service in the USA)
in the kitchen is the electric range. The outlets are all 120 volts
(there is no such thing as 110, 115 or 117 volt service in the USA).


Maybe my brain is low on caffeine, but I'm having trouble processing this.
Tell me where I could find 208, 220, 230, 240 or other similar voltage
in my kitchen, please. My house is ten years old.

The range outlet is it. Period. Any house that the normal outlets are
wired to 240 volts is miswired, and unsafe.

In my case I have a similar situation. My wife got a rice cooker from
overseas that was 220 volts (the standard for that country). I wired a
240 volt outlet to the range (actually mounted on the range, looks
factory...) to run her rice cooker. You need a proper 240 volt outlet,
which will have *both* blades turned 90 degrees. This prevents you
from plugging in any 120 volt applicances into that 240 volt outlet. A
plug/outlet with only one 90 degree rotated pin is a 120 volt model
(20 amps, where the two parallel pin models are 15 amps.)

On Thu, 1 Mar 2007 23:00:04 +0000 (UTC), (Geoffrey
S. Mendelson) wrote:


Wires run to outlets are usually three wires, a hot wire connected eventualy
to one side of the transformer, a neutral wire, which returns the power
to ground, completing the 120 volt circuit, and a smaller saftey ground wire.

The safety ground wire is *required* to be the same gauge as the power
conductors. It is never smaller.

PeterD wrote:
On Thu, 01 Mar 2007 16:10:07 -0600, clifto wrote:

Homer J Simpson wrote:
All US kitchen outlets (except in really OLD houses) have 220 volts - it's
required by code. It's easy to add an outlet with the right socket for 220.

First, the only 240 (note: there is *NO* 220 volt service in the USA)
in the kitchen is the electric range. The outlets are all 120 volts
(there is no such thing as 110, 115 or 117 volt service in the USA).


Maybe my brain is low on caffeine, but I'm having trouble processing this.
Tell me where I could find 208, 220, 230, 240 or other similar voltage
in my kitchen, please. My house is ten years old.

The range outlet is it. Period. Any house that the normal outlets are
wired to 240 volts is miswired, and unsafe.

In my case I have a similar situation. My wife got a rice cooker from
overseas that was 220 volts (the standard for that country). I wired a
240 volt outlet to the range (actually mounted on the range, looks
factory...) to run her rice cooker. You need a proper 240 volt outlet,
which will have *both* blades turned 90 degrees. This prevents you
from plugging in any 120 volt applicances into that 240 volt outlet. A
plug/outlet with only one 90 degree rotated pin is a 120 volt model
(20 amps, where the two parallel pin models are 15 amps.)

Hi...

I'm long long retired, but I suspect that part of the confusion here
might be the use of separated kitchen outlets. I *think* (and stand
ready to be corrected) that they're now code in all or most parts of
Canada.

In case I haven't described clearly enough... a kitchen outlet (where
one might be tempted to plug in a toaster/microwave/kettle etc is run
with 14/3 - the outlet strap is of course broken, and each "half" uses
a separate breaker (but on the same side of the line)

Take care.

Ken

"Ken Weitzel" wrote in message
news:JwKFh.1183230$1T2.653428@pd7urf2no...

I'm long long retired, but I suspect that part of the confusion here might
be the use of separated kitchen outlets. I *think* (and stand
ready to be corrected) that they're now code in all or most parts of
Canada.

In case I haven't described clearly enough... a kitchen outlet (where one
might be tempted to plug in a toaster/microwave/kettle etc is run with
14/3 - the outlet strap is of course broken, and each "half" uses
a separate breaker (but on the same side of the line)

Not just a separate breaker but code requires a separate 'phase' in kitchens
so there is 208 or 240 hot to hot.

clifto wrote:

Homer J Simpson wrote:
All US kitchen outlets (except in really OLD houses) have 220 volts
- it's required by code. It's easy to add an outlet with the right
socket for 220.

Maybe my brain is low on caffeine, but I'm having trouble processing
this. Tell me where I could find 208, 220, 230, 240 or other similar
voltage in my kitchen, please. My house is ten years old.

the stove should be wired for 220VAC and the dryer outlet should
also be 220VAC i.e. if the stove has the bigger than normal plug.
rw

--

Homer J Simpson wrote:
"clifto" wrote...
Homer J Simpson wrote:
All US kitchen outlets (except in really OLD houses) have 220 volts -
it's
required by code. It's easy to add an outlet with the right socket for
220.

Maybe my brain is low on caffeine, but I'm having trouble processing this.
Tell me where I could find 208, 220, 230, 240 or other similar voltage
in my kitchen, please. My house is ten years old.

IF YOU HAVE THE SKILLS,

I'm going to take that as a safety warning.

measure from hot to hot at any kitchen outlet. You
will find a voltage from 208 to 240 volts. Mine is 241 volts.

The voltage between the two hot pins on any given GFI in my kitchen is
0.0 volts. Either hot to either neutral is 122.1 VAC. I don't deal with
GFIs a lot, but I don't remember seeing a way to split the hot on a GFI
and so don't know how there could be 200+ volts between the hot pins.
I do believe that GFIs are required in the kitchen nowadays.

--
"...global warming is an apocalyptic faith whose preachers demand sacrifices
of others that they find far too painful for themselves."
-- Andrew Bolt, in Australia's Herald Sun
Martians drive SUVs! http://oregonmag.com/MarsWarm307.html

PeterD wrote:
On Thu, 01 Mar 2007 16:10:07 -0600, clifto wrote:
Maybe my brain is low on caffeine, but I'm having trouble processing this.
Tell me where I could find 208, 220, 230, 240 or other similar voltage
in my kitchen, please. My house is ten years old.

The range outlet is it. Period. Any house that the normal outlets are
wired to 240 volts is miswired, and unsafe.

That's exactly what I was thinking. We have a gas range and no 240V
range outlet.

--
"...global warming is an apocalyptic faith whose preachers demand sacrifices
of others that they find far too painful for themselves."
-- Andrew Bolt, in Australia's Herald Sun
Martians drive SUVs! http://oregonmag.com/MarsWarm307.html

"clifto" wrote in message
...

The voltage between the two hot pins on any given GFI in my kitchen is
0.0 volts. Either hot to either neutral is 122.1 VAC. I don't deal with
GFIs a lot, but I don't remember seeing a way to split the hot on a GFI
and so don't know how there could be 200+ volts between the hot pins.
I do believe that GFIs are required in the kitchen nowadays.

Did you measure the right (smaller) pins? Try either pin to ground to find
the hot pins.

You should have two GFIs feeding the kitchen. Have they changed the code in
your state?

PeterD wrote:
The safety ground wire is *required* to be the same gauge as the power
conductors. It is never smaller.

NOT EVERYWHERE. Here it is.

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 Fax ONLY: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote in message
...

The safety ground wire is *required* to be the same gauge as the power
conductors. It is never smaller.

NOT EVERYWHERE. Here it is.

In power wiring, ground and neutral can be smaller if the code allows. In
appliances there is no point.

Homer J Simpson wrote:
"clifto" wrote...
The voltage between the two hot pins on any given GFI in my kitchen is
0.0 volts. Either hot to either neutral is 122.1 VAC. I don't deal with
GFIs a lot, but I don't remember seeing a way to split the hot on a GFI
and so don't know how there could be 200+ volts between the hot pins.
I do believe that GFIs are required in the kitchen nowadays.

Did you measure the right (smaller) pins? Try either pin to ground to find
the hot pins.

Yep. Both smaller pins are properly hot on all outlets.

You should have two GFIs feeding the kitchen. Have they changed the code in
your state?

I have three GFIs in the kitchen, two on one wall and one (with a slaved
outlet as well) on the opposite wall. I'm not sure what the code says
regarding GFIs in the kitchen, I got the impression they're required
for all kitchen outlets from a real estate salesperson.

--
Martians drive SUVs! http://oregonmag.com/MarsWarm307.html

On Sat, 03 Mar 2007 02:07:49 -0600, clifto wrote:

Homer J Simpson wrote:
"clifto" wrote...
The voltage between the two hot pins on any given GFI in my kitchen is
0.0 volts. Either hot to either neutral is 122.1 VAC. I don't deal with
GFIs a lot, but I don't remember seeing a way to split the hot on a GFI
and so don't know how there could be 200+ volts between the hot pins.
I do believe that GFIs are required in the kitchen nowadays.

Did you measure the right (smaller) pins? Try either pin to ground to find
the hot pins.

Yep. Both smaller pins are properly hot on all outlets.

You should have two GFIs feeding the kitchen. Have they changed the code in
your state?

I have three GFIs in the kitchen, two on one wall and one (with a slaved
outlet as well) on the opposite wall. I'm not sure what the code says
regarding GFIs in the kitchen, I got the impression they're required
for all kitchen outlets from a real estate salesperson.

GFCIs are required when there is a potential to touch a grounded
object such as a water faucet and anything plugged into the outlet. So
kitchens, bathrooms, utility/laundry rooms, and all outdoors outlets
all must be GFIed.

AFCI breakers (arc fault circuit interrupters) are required in all new
construction for bedrooms in most areas of the US.

PeterD wrote:

GFCIs are required when there is a potential to touch a grounded
object such as a water faucet and anything plugged into the outlet. So
kitchens, bathrooms, utility/laundry rooms, and all outdoors outlets
all must be GFIed.

AFCI breakers (arc fault circuit interrupters) are required in all new
construction for bedrooms in most areas of the US.

I glad you qualified that. Here GFCI's are not required required by law,
but Israel Electric (the local monopoly) will not approve any new work
without one AHEAD of the main breakers. Many new homes have three phase
service, so they have three mains.

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 Fax ONLY: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/

"clifto" wrote in message
...

Yep. Both smaller pins are properly hot on all outlets.

You should have two GFIs feeding the kitchen. Have they changed the code
in
your state?

I have three GFIs in the kitchen, two on one wall and one (with a slaved
outlet as well) on the opposite wall. I'm not sure what the code says
regarding GFIs in the kitchen, I got the impression they're required
for all kitchen outlets from a real estate salesperson.

Well that's a new one on me. Either it isn't wired to code or they now no
longer require a split service to the kitchen. Every kitchen I've ever
checked has 208 or 240 across each outlet.

Homer J Simpson wrote:
"clifto" wrote...
Yep. Both smaller pins are properly hot on all outlets.

You should have two GFIs feeding the kitchen. Have they changed the code
in
your state?

I have three GFIs in the kitchen, two on one wall and one (with a slaved
outlet as well) on the opposite wall. I'm not sure what the code says
regarding GFIs in the kitchen, I got the impression they're required
for all kitchen outlets from a real estate salesperson.

Well that's a new one on me. Either it isn't wired to code or they now no
longer require a split service to the kitchen. Every kitchen I've ever
checked has 208 or 240 across each outlet.

Just so I don't have to rip one out of the wall to check, is it actually
possible to split the outlets on a standard GFI outlet? If so, is it
as easy as breaking off the little "ear" on a standard outlet? Also,
does splitting it leave only one outlet protected?

--
Martians drive SUVs! http://oregonmag.com/MarsWarm307.html

"clifto" wrote in message
...

Just so I don't have to rip one out of the wall to check, is it actually
possible to split the outlets on a standard GFI outlet?

No, not at all. You'd need two of them, one on each 'phase'. You COULD have
two singles in the kitchen, one for each side of the split line.

Sounds like you need to hook it up to the range outlet but that would mean
it would be 'over fused'. Definitely a job for an electrician with local
code knowledge.