Fascism at its finest...

http://michellemalkin.com/2009/09/02...t-left-behind/

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/10582301/President-Obama

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

Is Obama "The Manchurian Candidate", trained and planted by Osama?

snip
| James E.Thompson, P.E.
snip
Is Obama "The Manchurian Candidate", trained and planted by Osama?

Hey Jim, where are you getting these great tag lines from?

The one thing that I haven't seen from the conservative ranks is blaming
Obama for the Swine Flu... as a means of scaring folks into accepting his
universal health care. What the heck, Bush got blamed for everything
including a complicity in 9/11. What the heck do I know though, I'm just an
(R&D) lab rat.
Oppie

Jim Thompson wrote:
Fascism at its finest...

Repeat After Me: There Are No Death Panels in Socialized Heathcare...

http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/291725.php

==quote==
In a letter to The Daily Telegraph, a group of experts who care for the
terminally ill claim that some patients are being wrongly judged as close to
death.
Under NHS guidance introduced across England to help doctors and medical
staff deal with dying patients, they can then have fluid and drugs withdrawn
and many are put on continuous sedation until they pass away.

But this approach can also mask the signs that their condition is improving,
the experts warn.

As a result the scheme is causing a "national crisis" in patient care, the
letter states. It has been signed palliative care experts including
Professor Peter Millard, Emeritus Professor of Geriatrics, University of
London, Dr Peter Hargreaves, a consultant in Palliative Medicine at St
Luke's cancer centre in Guildford, and four others.

"Forecasting death is an inexact science," they say. Patients are being
diagnosed as being close to death "without regard to the fact that the
diagnosis could be wrong.

"As a result a national wave of discontent is building up, as family and
friends witness the denial of fluids and food to patients."

The warning comes just a week after a report by the Patients Association
estimated that up to one million patients had received poor or cruel care on
the NHS.
==quote==

A few years ago Florida had a case of "denial of fluids and food" to a
patient who was not even near death. I still think you, Jim, were on the
wrong side of that one.


--

Reply in group, but if emailing add one more
zero, and remove the last word.

On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 01:47:29 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote:


Jim Thompson wrote:
Fascism at its finest...

Repeat After Me: There Are No Death Panels in Socialized Heathcare...

http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/291725.php

==quote==
In a letter to The Daily Telegraph, a group of experts who care for the
terminally ill claim that some patients are being wrongly judged as close to
death.
Under NHS guidance introduced across England to help doctors and medical
staff deal with dying patients, they can then have fluid and drugs withdrawn
and many are put on continuous sedation until they pass away.

But this approach can also mask the signs that their condition is improving,
the experts warn.

As a result the scheme is causing a "national crisis" in patient care, the
letter states. It has been signed palliative care experts including
Professor Peter Millard, Emeritus Professor of Geriatrics, University of
London, Dr Peter Hargreaves, a consultant in Palliative Medicine at St
Luke's cancer centre in Guildford, and four others.

"Forecasting death is an inexact science," they say. Patients are being
diagnosed as being close to death "without regard to the fact that the
diagnosis could be wrong.

"As a result a national wave of discontent is building up, as family and
friends witness the denial of fluids and food to patients."

The warning comes just a week after a report by the Patients Association
estimated that up to one million patients had received poor or cruel care on
the NHS.
==quote==

A few years ago Florida had a case of "denial of fluids and food" to a
patient who was not even near death. I still think you, Jim, were on the
wrong side of that one.

That was the comatose woman whose husband wanted to pull the plug? Not
the government, right? The husband had a medical power of attorney,
right? Not the government, right?

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Jim Thompson wrote:
Fascism at its finest...

http://michellemalkin.com/2009/09/02...t-left-behind/

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/10582301/President-Obama

The usual right wing lies and bull****.

flipper wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 01:47:29 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote:


Jim Thompson wrote:
Fascism at its finest...

Repeat After Me: There Are No Death Panels in Socialized Heathcare...

http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/291725.php

==quote==
In a letter to The Daily Telegraph, a group of experts who care for
the terminally ill claim that some patients are being wrongly judged
as close to death.
Under NHS guidance introduced across England to help doctors and
medical staff deal with dying patients, they can then have fluid and
drugs withdrawn and many are put on continuous sedation until they
pass away.

But this approach can also mask the signs that their condition is
improving, the experts warn.

As a result the scheme is causing a "national crisis" in patient
care, the letter states. It has been signed palliative care experts
including Professor Peter Millard, Emeritus Professor of Geriatrics,
University of London, Dr Peter Hargreaves, a consultant in
Palliative Medicine at St Luke's cancer centre in Guildford, and
four others.

"Forecasting death is an inexact science," they say. Patients are
being diagnosed as being close to death "without regard to the fact
that the diagnosis could be wrong.

"As a result a national wave of discontent is building up, as family
and friends witness the denial of fluids and food to patients."

The warning comes just a week after a report by the Patients
Association estimated that up to one million patients had received
poor or cruel care on the NHS.
==quote==

A few years ago Florida had a case of "denial of fluids and food" to
a patient who was not even near death. I still think you, Jim, were
on the wrong side of that one.

While the courts ended up playing referee on which private citizen
would prevail at least that case was a dispute between family members
on what to do

...Until the righties insisted the government take over that decision.
lol

Tom Del Rosso wrote:
Jim Thompson wrote:
Fascism at its finest...

Repeat After Me: There Are No Death Panels in Socialized Heathcare...

http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/291725.php

==quote==
In a letter to The Daily Telegraph, a group of experts who care for
the terminally ill claim that some patients are being wrongly judged
as close to death.
Under NHS guidance introduced across England to help doctors and
medical staff deal with dying patients, they can then have fluid and
drugs withdrawn and many are put on continuous sedation until they
pass away.

"Doctors and medical staff...can."

So, where are the governmental death panels?



But this approach can also mask the signs that their condition is
improving, the experts warn.

As a result the scheme is causing a "national crisis" in patient
care, the letter states. It has been signed palliative care experts
including Professor Peter Millard, Emeritus Professor of Geriatrics,
University of London, Dr Peter Hargreaves, a consultant in Palliative
Medicine at St Luke's cancer centre in Guildford, and four others.

"Forecasting death is an inexact science," they say. Patients are
being diagnosed as being close to death "without regard to the fact
that the diagnosis could be wrong.

"As a result a national wave of discontent is building up, as family
and friends witness the denial of fluids and food to patients."

The warning comes just a week after a report by the Patients
Association estimated that up to one million patients had received
poor or cruel care on the NHS.

We certainly know the same and worse is true of the US health care system.
45 million are uninsured, for starts.

Does anybody find the binary electronic schematic attached to this thread?

Take your goddamned "one step to the right of Attila the Hun" to the
appropriate newsgroup, please.

Jim








"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
Fascism at its finest...

http://michellemalkin.com/2009/09/02...t-left-behind/

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/10582301/President-Obama

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

Is Obama "The Manchurian Candidate", trained and planted by Osama?

Ouroboros Rex wrote:
flipper wrote:

While the courts ended up playing referee on which private citizen
would prevail at least that case was a dispute between family
members on what to do

...Until the righties insisted the government take over that
decision. lol

Moron, the courts are part of the government too. The family brought it to
court, so they put it in the government's hands.

All the "righties" did was allow (not require - allow) a second judge to
review the decision of the first judge. And don't tell me there were other
judicial rulings because all the rulings in between were based on the
assumption that the main decision of the first judge, that the patient would
want to die, was correct.


--

Reply in group, but if emailing add one more
zero, and remove the last word.

Jim Thompson wrote:

That was the comatose woman whose husband wanted to pull the plug? Not
the government, right? The husband had a medical power of attorney,
right? Not the government, right?

Right, but there was no plug - they were feeding her orally. You're right
that it's apples and oranges though, so I shouldn't even bring it up.


--

Reply in group, but if emailing add one more
zero, and remove the last word.

Tom Del Rosso wrote:
Ouroboros Rex wrote:
flipper wrote:

While the courts ended up playing referee on which private citizen
would prevail at least that case was a dispute between family
members on what to do

...Until the righties insisted the government take over that
decision. lol

Moron, the courts are part of the government too. The family brought
it to court, so they put it in the government's hands.

All the "righties" did was allow (not require - allow) a second judge
to review the decision of the first judge. And don't tell me there
were other judicial rulings because all the rulings in between were
based on the assumption that the main decision of the first judge,
that the patient would want to die, was correct.

You must think we are really stupid.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/18/na...iavo.html?_r=1

"MIAMI, Friday, March 18 - Despite last-ditch efforts by Republicans in
Washington and Tallahassee, Congress and the Florida Legislature failed to
pass measures Thursday to halt the removal of a feeding tube from Terri
Schiavo, a critically brain-damaged woman, on Friday.
And in a final effort to save Ms. Schiavo's live, leaders in the House of
Representatives said Friday morning that the Government Reform Committee
would issue supoenas they hope will stop removal of the tube, scheduled for
1 p.m. Friday, The Associated Press reported. "We will issue a subpoena
which will require hospice administrators and attending physicians to
preserve nutrition and hydration for Terri Schiavo to allow Congress to
fully understand the procedures and practices that are currently keeping her
alive," said a statement issued at 1 a.m. by the House speaker, J. Dennis
Hastert; the majority leader, Tom DeLay of Texas; and the chairman of the
Government Reform Committee, Thomas M. Davis III of Virginia. "The subpoena
will be joined by a Senate investigation as well," the statement said."

flipper wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 10:06:39 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

Tom Del Rosso wrote:
Jim Thompson wrote:
Fascism at its finest...

Repeat After Me: There Are No Death Panels in Socialized
Heathcare...

http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/291725.php

==quote==
In a letter to The Daily Telegraph, a group of experts who care for
the terminally ill claim that some patients are being wrongly judged
as close to death.
Under NHS guidance introduced across England to help doctors and
medical staff deal with dying patients, they can then have fluid and
drugs withdrawn and many are put on continuous sedation until they
pass away.

"Doctors and medical staff...can."

So, where are the governmental death panels?

The NHS.

Made-up crap.




But this approach can also mask the signs that their condition is
improving, the experts warn.

As a result the scheme is causing a "national crisis" in patient
care, the letter states. It has been signed palliative care experts
including Professor Peter Millard, Emeritus Professor of Geriatrics,
University of London, Dr Peter Hargreaves, a consultant in
Palliative Medicine at St Luke's cancer centre in Guildford, and
four others.

"Forecasting death is an inexact science," they say. Patients are
being diagnosed as being close to death "without regard to the fact
that the diagnosis could be wrong.

"As a result a national wave of discontent is building up, as family
and friends witness the denial of fluids and food to patients."

The warning comes just a week after a report by the Patients
Association estimated that up to one million patients had received
poor or cruel care on the NHS.

We certainly know the same and worse is true of the US health care
system. 45 million are uninsured, for starts.


A falsehood, for starters, as hospitals are required to provide
services regardless of ability to pay.

That's not insurance. 45 million uninsured, when you get something let me
know.

Ouroboros Rex wrote:

"Doctors and medical staff...can."

So, where are the governmental death panels?

Obviously, they are in nations with national health care, since we don't
have that kind of denial of treatment for anyone here.


We certainly know the same and worse is true of the US health care

BS. Nobody here has food or medicine denied like that.


system. 45 million are uninsured, for starts.

I'm one of them, and nobody you vote for is going to make my medical
decisions.


--

Reply in group, but if emailing add one more
zero, and remove the last word.

Ouroboros Rex wrote:

You must think we are really stupid.

Not "we".

All the Florida legislature did was give congress time to do what I said
they did. They allowed another judge to review the decision before letting
her die. After that the Florida legislature had no effect.


--

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zero, and remove the last word.

Tom Del Rosso wrote:
Ouroboros Rex wrote:

"Doctors and medical staff...can."

So, where are the governmental death panels?

Obviously, they are in nations with national health care, since we
don't have that kind of denial of treatment for anyone here.

Yeah, we do. Doctors can have fluid and drugs withdrawn, and often do.



We certainly know the same and worse is true of the US health care

BS. Nobody here has food or medicine denied like that.

Yeah, they do. Doctors can have fluid and drugs withdrawn, and often do.



system. 45 million are uninsured, for starts.

I'm one of them, and nobody you vote for is going to make my medical
decisions.

Nobody I vote for is trying. That's the republicans' hobby.

http://texasrighttolife.com/lifeIssu...anasia_faq.php

Tom Del Rosso wrote:
Ouroboros Rex wrote:

You must think we are really stupid.

Not "we".

All the Florida legislature did was give congress time to do what I
said they did. They allowed another judge to review the decision
before letting her die. After that the Florida legislature had no
effect.

I didn't say "the florida legislature", I said "the righties."

"We will issue a subpoena
which will require hospice administrators and attending physicians to
preserve nutrition and hydration for Terri Schiavo .."

"Not require" my ass.

The righties tried to put the decision right smack dab in the government's
hands. Righties in governemt then attempted to make that decision and make
it stick. You can make up all sorts of winderful arguments that they
didn't, but they did. In fact, many of the same righties want to have such
decisions taken from you permanently.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governm...i_Schiavo_case

Ouroboros Rex wrote:
Tom Del Rosso wrote:
system. 45 million are uninsured, for starts.

I'm one of them, and nobody you vote for is going to make my medical
decisions.

Nobody I vote for is trying. That's the republicans' hobby.

http://texasrighttolife.com/lifeIssu...anasia_faq.php

That is not a takover of medical care.

The idea that government can pay for medical care without controlling it is
absurd on its face. If they did that there would be enormous fraud.

But to understand that you need common sense to go with those web links.


--

Reply in group, but if emailing add one more
zero, and remove the last word.

On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 18:28:56 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote:


Ouroboros Rex wrote:
Tom Del Rosso wrote:
system. 45 million are uninsured, for starts.

I'm one of them, and nobody you vote for is going to make my medical
decisions.

Nobody I vote for is trying. That's the republicans' hobby.

http://texasrighttolife.com/lifeIssu...anasia_faq.php

That is not a takover of medical care.

The idea that government can pay for medical care without controlling it is
absurd on its face. If they did that there would be enormous fraud.

But to understand that you need common sense to go with those web links.

"Ouroboros" should change his first name to "Outrageous". He's more
ignorant than any other leftist I've ever encountered. Probably a
graduate of Berkeley ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

"Minimum wage" is why all our manufacturing is in Mexico and China

Jim Thompson wrote:

"Ouroboros" should change his first name to "Outrageous". He's more
ignorant than any other leftist I've ever encountered. Probably a
graduate of Berkeley ;-)

I've met MUCH more ignorant leftists in New York, but he has no sense.

And no maturity ( incessant LOLs).


"Minimum wage" is why all our manufacturing is in Mexico and China

According to Milton Friedman we pay 10% of GDP for compliance with
regulations*. For industries like manufacturing it must be greater than
average.

(* Plus 40% in taxes, hence 50% capitalism and 50% socialism, and that's
before all this.)

But beyond minimum wage there are union demands. At GM the guys who drive
the cars from the factory to the parking lot made 110k.


--

Reply in group, but if emailing add one more
zero, and remove the last word.

On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 19:08:14 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote:


Jim Thompson wrote:

"Ouroboros" should change his first name to "Outrageous". He's more
ignorant than any other leftist I've ever encountered. Probably a
graduate of Berkeley ;-)

I've met MUCH more ignorant leftists in New York, but he has no sense.

And no maturity ( incessant LOLs).


"Minimum wage" is why all our manufacturing is in Mexico and China

According to Milton Friedman we pay 10% of GDP for compliance with
regulations*. For industries like manufacturing it must be greater than
average.

(* Plus 40% in taxes, hence 50% capitalism and 50% socialism, and that's
before all this.)

But beyond minimum wage there are union demands. At GM the guys who drive
the cars from the factory to the parking lot made 110k.

For jollies, price out what garbage truck drivers get in SF.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 10:06:39 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

Tom Del Rosso wrote:
Jim Thompson wrote:
Fascism at its finest...

Repeat After Me: There Are No Death Panels in Socialized Heathcare...

http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/291725.php

==quote==
In a letter to The Daily Telegraph, a group of experts who care for
the terminally ill claim that some patients are being wrongly judged
as close to death.
Under NHS guidance introduced across England to help doctors and
medical staff deal with dying patients, they can then have fluid and
drugs withdrawn and many are put on continuous sedation until they
pass away.

"Doctors and medical staff...can."

So, where are the governmental death panels?



But this approach can also mask the signs that their condition is
improving, the experts warn.

As a result the scheme is causing a "national crisis" in patient
care, the letter states. It has been signed palliative care experts
including Professor Peter Millard, Emeritus Professor of Geriatrics,
University of London, Dr Peter Hargreaves, a consultant in Palliative
Medicine at St Luke's cancer centre in Guildford, and four others.

"Forecasting death is an inexact science," they say. Patients are
being diagnosed as being close to death "without regard to the fact
that the diagnosis could be wrong.

"As a result a national wave of discontent is building up, as family
and friends witness the denial of fluids and food to patients."

The warning comes just a week after a report by the Patients
Association estimated that up to one million patients had received
poor or cruel care on the NHS.

We certainly know the same and worse is true of the US health care system.
45 million are uninsured, for starts.


45 million are also without employment.

We do not need our president manipulating the current health care
system, much less force feeding a "new plan" which he and his little
industry back scratcher buddies claim is viable, but that will clearly
cost us far too much just in implementation alone.

In other words, you're an idiot if you think our chief should be
worrying about that or any other stupid, high cost "plans".

He has to be the most retarded president we have ever had, despite his
glorious educational background claims.

Even those are questionable if his actions indicate that all he did at
Harvard was attend.

On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 08:28:47 -0700, "RST Engineering - JIm"
wrote:

Does anybody find the binary electronic schematic attached to this thread?

Take your goddamned "one step to the right of Attila the Hun" to the
appropriate newsgroup, please.

Jim




Did Obama's total retardation rub off on you too, you dumb ****? You
do not know how to filter a thread so it doesn't show up?

You top-posting ****tard. After all this time in Usenet, you should
know how to NOT read any posts or threads that you are not interested in.

Ten years of blatant top posting retardation though, and I can see how
a dip**** that blatantly disregards requests by others that he COMPLY
with the posting conventions of the group... and you claim to be so
Usenet smart!... could totally **** it all up. Ding!

Well, smart ass... LEARN how to filter. **** and moaning, particularly
top posted versions rarely garner feelings toward you or your request,
that are of the nature you seek.

You are way better keeping it to yourself, and posting your
contribution whenever you finally do.

Yes, Jim is an idiot for his political posts. He sees his country being
chewed at, and he wants to chew back. He is a chewbackka.

I guess that makes you the little dog that nips at his ankles.

So until you learn some goddamned protocol, you have no authority here,
not that you ever did have any, you top posting retard.

On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 19:08:14 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote:

At GM the guys who drive
the cars from the factory to the parking lot made 110k.

No, they do not.

flipper wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 10:03:56 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 01:47:29 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote:


Jim Thompson wrote:
Fascism at its finest...

Repeat After Me: There Are No Death Panels in Socialized
Heathcare...

http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/291725.php

==quote==
In a letter to The Daily Telegraph, a group of experts who care for
the terminally ill claim that some patients are being wrongly
judged as close to death.
Under NHS guidance introduced across England to help doctors and
medical staff deal with dying patients, they can then have fluid
and drugs withdrawn and many are put on continuous sedation until
they pass away.

But this approach can also mask the signs that their condition is
improving, the experts warn.

As a result the scheme is causing a "national crisis" in patient
care, the letter states. It has been signed palliative care experts
including Professor Peter Millard, Emeritus Professor of
Geriatrics, University of London, Dr Peter Hargreaves, a
consultant in Palliative Medicine at St Luke's cancer centre in
Guildford, and four others.

"Forecasting death is an inexact science," they say. Patients are
being diagnosed as being close to death "without regard to the fact
that the diagnosis could be wrong.

"As a result a national wave of discontent is building up, as
family and friends witness the denial of fluids and food to
patients."

The warning comes just a week after a report by the Patients
Association estimated that up to one million patients had received
poor or cruel care on the NHS.
==quote==

A few years ago Florida had a case of "denial of fluids and food"
to a patient who was not even near death. I still think you, Jim,
were on the wrong side of that one.

While the courts ended up playing referee on which private citizen
would prevail at least that case was a dispute between family
members on what to do

...Until the righties insisted the government take over that
decision. lol


In the first place, 'the government', in the form of the courts, was
already involved but, more to the point, 'righties', as you call them,
think the Congress has no business in the matter then, or now, whether
Republican, Democrat, or the current loony tunes.

Righties insisted Congress take up the issue. Fact.

flipper wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 14:13:33 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 10:06:39 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

Tom Del Rosso wrote:
Jim Thompson wrote:
Fascism at its finest...

Repeat After Me: There Are No Death Panels in Socialized
Heathcare...

http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/291725.php

==quote==
In a letter to The Daily Telegraph, a group of experts who care
for the terminally ill claim that some patients are being wrongly
judged as close to death.
Under NHS guidance introduced across England to help doctors and
medical staff deal with dying patients, they can then have fluid
and drugs withdrawn and many are put on continuous sedation until
they pass away.

"Doctors and medical staff...can."

So, where are the governmental death panels?

The NHS.

Made-up crap.

There the ones who decide what does, or does not, get provided.

Funny, the article says otherwise. lol


But this approach can also mask the signs that their condition is
improving, the experts warn.

As a result the scheme is causing a "national crisis" in patient
care, the letter states. It has been signed palliative care
experts including Professor Peter Millard, Emeritus Professor of
Geriatrics, University of London, Dr Peter Hargreaves, a
consultant in Palliative Medicine at St Luke's cancer centre in
Guildford, and four others.

"Forecasting death is an inexact science," they say. Patients are
being diagnosed as being close to death "without regard to the
fact that the diagnosis could be wrong.

"As a result a national wave of discontent is building up, as
family and friends witness the denial of fluids and food to
patients."

The warning comes just a week after a report by the Patients
Association estimated that up to one million patients had received
poor or cruel care on the NHS.

We certainly know the same and worse is true of the US health care
system. 45 million are uninsured, for starts.


A falsehood, for starters, as hospitals are required to provide
services regardless of ability to pay.

That's not insurance. 45 million uninsured, when you get something
let me know.

Insurance is not healthcare and the topic was "poor or cruel care on
the NHS," not 'insurance'.


No, redefining sad sack, I made a comment about the US health system and
you took that up.

We certainly know the same and worse is true of the US health care
system. 45 million are uninsured, for starts.


A falsehood, for starters, as hospitals are required to provide
services regardless of ability to pay.


In fact, where George Bush had a chance to make law, they can shut your
ass right off while your relatives watch in horror.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0322-03.htm

"As Wasserman Schultz said on the House floor, the Texas law lays out
procedures for physicians to follow when they think a patient's condition is
hopeless, even if family members disagree. Doctors can make a case to their
hospital's ethics committee. If the ethics committee agrees, life support
can be removed. "

Rightie hero George W. Bush, death panels, 2005. Who'da thunk. =)

Tom Del Rosso wrote:
Ouroboros Rex wrote:
Tom Del Rosso wrote:
system. 45 million are uninsured, for starts.

I'm one of them, and nobody you vote for is going to make my medical
decisions.

Nobody I vote for is trying. That's the republicans' hobby.

http://texasrighttolife.com/lifeIssu...anasia_faq.php

That is not a takover of medical care.

Neither is the House bill.


The idea that government can pay for medical care without controlling
it is absurd on its face. If they did that there would be enormous
fraud.

But you just told us that no one I vote for is going to make your medical
decisions. Are you somehow special, and if you are, what makes you think
you have a salient point?

Tom Del Rosso wrote:
Jim Thompson wrote:

"Ouroboros" should change his first name to "Outrageous". He's more
ignorant than any other leftist I've ever encountered. Probably a
graduate of Berkeley ;-)

I've met MUCH more ignorant leftists in New York, but he has no sense.

And no maturity ( incessant LOLs).


"Minimum wage" is why all our manufacturing is in Mexico and China

According to Milton Friedman we pay 10% of GDP for compliance with
regulations*. For industries like manufacturing it must be greater
than average.

(* Plus 40% in taxes, hence 50% capitalism and 50% socialism, and
that's before all this.)

Sorry, that's not socialism.

UltimatePatriot wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 10:06:39 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

Tom Del Rosso wrote:
Jim Thompson wrote:
Fascism at its finest...

Repeat After Me: There Are No Death Panels in Socialized
Heathcare...

http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/291725.php

==quote==
In a letter to The Daily Telegraph, a group of experts who care for
the terminally ill claim that some patients are being wrongly judged
as close to death.
Under NHS guidance introduced across England to help doctors and
medical staff deal with dying patients, they can then have fluid and
drugs withdrawn and many are put on continuous sedation until they
pass away.

"Doctors and medical staff...can."

So, where are the governmental death panels?



But this approach can also mask the signs that their condition is
improving, the experts warn.

As a result the scheme is causing a "national crisis" in patient
care, the letter states. It has been signed palliative care experts
including Professor Peter Millard, Emeritus Professor of Geriatrics,
University of London, Dr Peter Hargreaves, a consultant in
Palliative Medicine at St Luke's cancer centre in Guildford, and
four others.

"Forecasting death is an inexact science," they say. Patients are
being diagnosed as being close to death "without regard to the fact
that the diagnosis could be wrong.

"As a result a national wave of discontent is building up, as family
and friends witness the denial of fluids and food to patients."

The warning comes just a week after a report by the Patients
Association estimated that up to one million patients had received
poor or cruel care on the NHS.

We certainly know the same and worse is true of the US health care
system. 45 million are uninsured, for starts.


45 million are also without employment.

We do not need our president manipulating the current health care
system,

Name me a president who has not done so.

flipper wrote:
On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 09:07:13 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 10:03:56 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 01:47:29 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote:


Jim Thompson wrote:
Fascism at its finest...

Repeat After Me: There Are No Death Panels in Socialized
Heathcare...

http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/291725.php

==quote==
In a letter to The Daily Telegraph, a group of experts who care
for the terminally ill claim that some patients are being wrongly
judged as close to death.
Under NHS guidance introduced across England to help doctors and
medical staff deal with dying patients, they can then have fluid
and drugs withdrawn and many are put on continuous sedation until
they pass away.

But this approach can also mask the signs that their condition is
improving, the experts warn.

As a result the scheme is causing a "national crisis" in patient
care, the letter states. It has been signed palliative care
experts including Professor Peter Millard, Emeritus Professor of
Geriatrics, University of London, Dr Peter Hargreaves, a
consultant in Palliative Medicine at St Luke's cancer centre in
Guildford, and four others.

"Forecasting death is an inexact science," they say. Patients are
being diagnosed as being close to death "without regard to the
fact that the diagnosis could be wrong.

"As a result a national wave of discontent is building up, as
family and friends witness the denial of fluids and food to
patients."

The warning comes just a week after a report by the Patients
Association estimated that up to one million patients had
received poor or cruel care on the NHS.
==quote==

A few years ago Florida had a case of "denial of fluids and food"
to a patient who was not even near death. I still think you,
Jim, were on the wrong side of that one.

While the courts ended up playing referee on which private citizen
would prevail at least that case was a dispute between family
members on what to do

...Until the righties insisted the government take over that
decision. lol


In the first place, 'the government', in the form of the courts, was
already involved but, more to the point, 'righties', as you call
them, think the Congress has no business in the matter then, or
now, whether Republican, Democrat, or the current loony tunes.

Righties insisted Congress take up the issue.


Obama is going to put you in his 'fishy' list if you don't stop
calling him a 'rightie'.

"Fishy list", lol

cuckoo cuckoo cuckoo

Obama agrees with me.



Fact.

You wouldn't recognize a 'fact' if it hit you in the face.

Another pathetic lie.


What they wanted was for the case to be heard in a higher court and
the 'subpoena was to keep her alive till it could because dead people
don't have standing.

Tell Pat Mahoney.

Rev. Pat Mahoney was formerly with the anti-abortion group Operation Rescue
and is now executive director of the Christian Defense Coalition, "an
informal but growing network of conservative, religious and disability
organizations who, with the click of a computer mouse, are enlisting
hundreds of thousands of people in Bob and Mary Schindler's fight to keep
their daughter Terri Schiavo alive."

"The first goal of the campaign, Mahoney said, is to save Terri Schiavo's
life. But he and others also hope to roll back the laws and ethical and
medical guidelines that have evolved since 1990, when the U.S. Supreme Court
recognized artificial sustenance and hydration as medical treatment." Knight
Ridder, March 14, 2005.


Tell John Sternberger.

John Stemberger, president of the Orlando, FL,-based Florida Family Policy
Council, says that "Food and water is not medical treatment. It's ordinary
care, ... Our primary interest is what the law should be, not what the law
is, and this will be one of our top priorities: to create new public
policy." Bradenton Herald, March 14, 2005


"You wouldn't recognize a fact if it hit you in the face", right? =)

flipper wrote:
On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 09:13:43 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 14:13:33 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 10:06:39 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

Tom Del Rosso wrote:
Jim Thompson wrote:
Fascism at its finest...

Repeat After Me: There Are No Death Panels in Socialized
Heathcare...

http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/291725.php

==quote==
In a letter to The Daily Telegraph, a group of experts who care
for the terminally ill claim that some patients are being
wrongly judged as close to death.
Under NHS guidance introduced across England to help doctors and
medical staff deal with dying patients, they can then have fluid
and drugs withdrawn and many are put on continuous sedation
until they pass away.

"Doctors and medical staff...can."

So, where are the governmental death panels?

The NHS.

Made-up crap.

There the ones who decide what does, or does not, get provided.

Funny, the article says otherwise. lol

No it doesn't

A pathetic lie.


and even if it did 'the article' doesn't write law in
England.

HAW HAW HAW HAW You're an idiot.




But this approach can also mask the signs that their condition
is improving, the experts warn.

As a result the scheme is causing a "national crisis" in patient
care, the letter states. It has been signed palliative care
experts including Professor Peter Millard, Emeritus Professor of
Geriatrics, University of London, Dr Peter Hargreaves, a
consultant in Palliative Medicine at St Luke's cancer centre in
Guildford, and four others.

"Forecasting death is an inexact science," they say. Patients
are being diagnosed as being close to death "without regard to
the fact that the diagnosis could be wrong.

"As a result a national wave of discontent is building up, as
family and friends witness the denial of fluids and food to
patients."

The warning comes just a week after a report by the Patients
Association estimated that up to one million patients had
received poor or cruel care on the NHS.

We certainly know the same and worse is true of the US health
care system. 45 million are uninsured, for starts.


A falsehood, for starters, as hospitals are required to provide
services regardless of ability to pay.

That's not insurance. 45 million uninsured, when you get
something let me know.

Insurance is not healthcare and the topic was "poor or cruel care on
the NHS," not 'insurance'.


No, redefining sad sack, I made a comment about the US health
system and you took that up.

I don't give a flying fig what you 'call it' the article and topic was
about "poor or cruel care" and insurance is not "healthcare."

Then don't respond when I talk about insurance, redefining sad sack.




We certainly know the same and worse is true of the US health
care system. 45 million are uninsured, for starts.


A falsehood, for starters, as hospitals are required to provide
services regardless of ability to pay.


In fact, where George Bush had a chance to make law, they can shut
your ass right off while your relatives watch in horror.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0322-03.htm

"As Wasserman Schultz said on the House floor, the Texas law lays out
procedures for physicians to follow when they think a patient's
condition is hopeless, even if family members disagree. Doctors can
make a case to their hospital's ethics committee. If the ethics
committee agrees, life support can be removed. "

Rightie hero George W. Bush, death panels, 2005. Who'da thunk. =)


In the first place we aren't talking about Texas law,

We are now. Try to keep up.

The article specified that doctors made the decisions in Britain, you
began lying about it outright.

Now it turns out the doctors make the decisions in Texas, suddenly you
want to shut up.

You are a puling intellectual coward.

flipper wrote:
On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 14:50:16 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 09:07:13 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 10:03:56 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 01:47:29 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote:


Jim Thompson wrote:
Fascism at its finest...

Repeat After Me: There Are No Death Panels in Socialized
Heathcare...

http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/291725.php

==quote==
In a letter to The Daily Telegraph, a group of experts who care
for the terminally ill claim that some patients are being
wrongly judged as close to death.
Under NHS guidance introduced across England to help doctors
and medical staff deal with dying patients, they can then have
fluid and drugs withdrawn and many are put on continuous
sedation until they pass away.

But this approach can also mask the signs that their condition
is improving, the experts warn.

As a result the scheme is causing a "national crisis" in
patient care, the letter states. It has been signed palliative
care experts including Professor Peter Millard, Emeritus
Professor of Geriatrics, University of London, Dr Peter
Hargreaves, a consultant in Palliative Medicine at St Luke's
cancer centre in Guildford, and four others.

"Forecasting death is an inexact science," they say. Patients
are being diagnosed as being close to death "without regard to
the fact that the diagnosis could be wrong.

"As a result a national wave of discontent is building up, as
family and friends witness the denial of fluids and food to
patients."

The warning comes just a week after a report by the Patients
Association estimated that up to one million patients had
received poor or cruel care on the NHS.
==quote==

A few years ago Florida had a case of "denial of fluids and
food" to a patient who was not even near death. I still think
you, Jim, were on the wrong side of that one.

While the courts ended up playing referee on which private
citizen would prevail at least that case was a dispute between
family members on what to do

...Until the righties insisted the government take over that
decision. lol


In the first place, 'the government', in the form of the courts,
was already involved but, more to the point, 'righties', as you
call them, think the Congress has no business in the matter then,
or now, whether Republican, Democrat, or the current loony tunes.

Righties insisted Congress take up the issue.


Obama is going to put you in his 'fishy' list if you don't stop
calling him a 'rightie'.

"Fishy list", lol

cuckoo cuckoo cuckoo

Obama agrees with me.

In which fantasy land do you live where Obama is a 'rightie'?

Fact.

You wouldn't recognize a 'fact' if it hit you in the face.

Another pathetic lie.

Hell, you don't even recognize your own words, much less have any
concept of opinion and fact.


What they wanted was for the case to be heard in a higher court and
the 'subpoena was to keep her alive till it could because dead
people don't have standing.

Tell Pat Mahoney.

Rev. Pat Mahoney was formerly with the anti-abortion group Operation
Rescue and is now executive director of the Christian Defense
Coalition, "an informal but growing network of conservative,
religious and disability organizations who, with the click of a
computer mouse, are enlisting hundreds of thousands of people in Bob
and Mary Schindler's fight to keep their daughter Terri Schiavo
alive."

"The first goal of the campaign, Mahoney said, is to save Terri
Schiavo's life. But he and others also hope to roll back the laws
and ethical and medical guidelines that have evolved since 1990,
when the U.S. Supreme Court recognized artificial sustenance and
hydration as medical treatment." Knight Ridder, March 14, 2005.


Tell John Sternberger.

John Stemberger, president of the Orlando, FL,-based Florida Family
Policy Council, says that "Food and water is not medical treatment.
It's ordinary care, ... Our primary interest is what the law should
be, not what the law is, and this will be one of our top priorities:
to create new public policy." Bradenton Herald, March 14, 2005


"You wouldn't recognize a fact if it hit you in the face", right?
=)

In what fantasy world do you live where Mahoney and Stemberger serve
in Congress?

Serve in Congress? Not to my knowledge. What are you whining about about
now, redefining sad sack?

flipper wrote:
On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 16:21:57 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 09:13:43 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 14:13:33 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 10:06:39 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

Tom Del Rosso wrote:
Jim Thompson wrote:
Fascism at its finest...

Repeat After Me: There Are No Death Panels in Socialized
Heathcare...

http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/291725.php

==quote==
In a letter to The Daily Telegraph, a group of experts who
care for the terminally ill claim that some patients are being
wrongly judged as close to death.
Under NHS guidance introduced across England to help doctors
and medical staff deal with dying patients, they can then
have fluid and drugs withdrawn and many are put on continuous
sedation until they pass away.

"Doctors and medical staff...can."

So, where are the governmental death panels?

The NHS.

Made-up crap.

There the ones who decide what does, or does not, get provided.

Funny, the article says otherwise. lol

No it doesn't

A pathetic lie.


and even if it did 'the article' doesn't write law in
England.

HAW HAW HAW HAW You're an idiot.

Being called an idiot by an idiot is no insult.

And 'the article' still doesn't write law in England.

Perhaps the dumbest retort you've come up with yet. lol



But this approach can also mask the signs that their condition
is improving, the experts warn.

As a result the scheme is causing a "national crisis" in
patient care, the letter states. It has been signed
palliative care experts including Professor Peter Millard,
Emeritus Professor of Geriatrics, University of London, Dr
Peter Hargreaves, a consultant in Palliative Medicine at St
Luke's cancer centre in Guildford, and four others.

"Forecasting death is an inexact science," they say. Patients
are being diagnosed as being close to death "without regard to
the fact that the diagnosis could be wrong.

"As a result a national wave of discontent is building up, as
family and friends witness the denial of fluids and food to
patients."

The warning comes just a week after a report by the Patients
Association estimated that up to one million patients had
received poor or cruel care on the NHS.

We certainly know the same and worse is true of the US health
care system. 45 million are uninsured, for starts.


A falsehood, for starters, as hospitals are required to provide
services regardless of ability to pay.

That's not insurance. 45 million uninsured, when you get
something let me know.

Insurance is not healthcare and the topic was "poor or cruel care
on the NHS," not 'insurance'.


No, redefining sad sack, I made a comment about the US health
system and you took that up.

I don't give a flying fig what you 'call it' the article and topic
was about "poor or cruel care" and insurance is not "healthcare."

Then don't respond when I talk about insurance, redefining sad sack.

I'll respond any way I please and it pleases me to be on topic.

That you're too brain dead to tell the difference between 'care' and
'insurance' is your problem, not mine.

More pathetic redefinition crap. lol





We certainly know the same and worse is true of the US health
care system. 45 million are uninsured, for starts.


A falsehood, for starters, as hospitals are required to provide
services regardless of ability to pay.


In fact, where George Bush had a chance to make law, they can shut
your ass right off while your relatives watch in horror.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0322-03.htm

"As Wasserman Schultz said on the House floor, the Texas law lays
out procedures for physicians to follow when they think a patient's
condition is hopeless, even if family members disagree. Doctors can
make a case to their hospital's ethics committee. If the ethics
committee agrees, life support can be removed. "

Rightie hero George W. Bush, death panels, 2005. Who'da thunk.
=)


In the first place we aren't talking about Texas law,

We are now. Try to keep up.

No, "we" are not.


The article specified that doctors made the decisions in Britain,
you began lying about it outright.

Under direction of the NHS.

Nope. Nonbinding guidance. Which makes you a liar. lol

flipper wrote:
On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 09:17:54 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

UltimatePatriot wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 10:06:39 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

Tom Del Rosso wrote:
Jim Thompson wrote:
Fascism at its finest...

Repeat After Me: There Are No Death Panels in Socialized
Heathcare...

http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/291725.php

==quote==
In a letter to The Daily Telegraph, a group of experts who care
for the terminally ill claim that some patients are being wrongly
judged as close to death.
Under NHS guidance introduced across England to help doctors and
medical staff deal with dying patients, they can then have fluid
and drugs withdrawn and many are put on continuous sedation until
they pass away.

"Doctors and medical staff...can."

So, where are the governmental death panels?



But this approach can also mask the signs that their condition is
improving, the experts warn.

As a result the scheme is causing a "national crisis" in patient
care, the letter states. It has been signed palliative care
experts including Professor Peter Millard, Emeritus Professor of
Geriatrics, University of London, Dr Peter Hargreaves, a
consultant in Palliative Medicine at St Luke's cancer centre in
Guildford, and four others.

"Forecasting death is an inexact science," they say. Patients are
being diagnosed as being close to death "without regard to the
fact that the diagnosis could be wrong.

"As a result a national wave of discontent is building up, as
family and friends witness the denial of fluids and food to
patients."

The warning comes just a week after a report by the Patients
Association estimated that up to one million patients had received
poor or cruel care on the NHS.

We certainly know the same and worse is true of the US health care
system. 45 million are uninsured, for starts.


45 million are also without employment.

We do not need our president manipulating the current health care
system,

Name me a president who has not done so.


Irrelevant because past sins, whether real or perceived, are not an
excuse to commit more and even greater sins.

I wasn't talking to you, redefining sad sack.

flipper wrote:
On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 11:51:04 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 14:50:16 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 09:07:13 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 10:03:56 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 01:47:29 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote:


Jim Thompson wrote:
Fascism at its finest...

Repeat After Me: There Are No Death Panels in Socialized
Heathcare...

http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/291725.php

==quote==
In a letter to The Daily Telegraph, a group of experts who
care for the terminally ill claim that some patients are
being wrongly judged as close to death.
Under NHS guidance introduced across England to help doctors
and medical staff deal with dying patients, they can then
have fluid and drugs withdrawn and many are put on continuous
sedation until they pass away.

But this approach can also mask the signs that their
condition is improving, the experts warn.

As a result the scheme is causing a "national crisis" in
patient care, the letter states. It has been signed
palliative care experts including Professor Peter Millard,
Emeritus Professor of Geriatrics, University of London, Dr
Peter Hargreaves, a consultant in Palliative Medicine at St
Luke's cancer centre in Guildford, and four others.

"Forecasting death is an inexact science," they say. Patients
are being diagnosed as being close to death "without regard
to the fact that the diagnosis could be wrong.

"As a result a national wave of discontent is building up, as
family and friends witness the denial of fluids and food to
patients."

The warning comes just a week after a report by the Patients
Association estimated that up to one million patients had
received poor or cruel care on the NHS.
==quote==

A few years ago Florida had a case of "denial of fluids and
food" to a patient who was not even near death. I still
think you, Jim, were on the wrong side of that one.

While the courts ended up playing referee on which private
citizen would prevail at least that case was a dispute between
family members on what to do

...Until the righties insisted the government take over that
decision. lol


In the first place, 'the government', in the form of the courts,
was already involved but, more to the point, 'righties', as you
call them, think the Congress has no business in the matter
then, or now, whether Republican, Democrat, or the current
loony tunes.

Righties insisted Congress take up the issue.


Obama is going to put you in his 'fishy' list if you don't stop
calling him a 'rightie'.

"Fishy list", lol

cuckoo cuckoo cuckoo

Obama agrees with me.

In which fantasy land do you live where Obama is a 'rightie'?

Fact.

You wouldn't recognize a 'fact' if it hit you in the face.

Another pathetic lie.

Hell, you don't even recognize your own words, much less have any
concept of opinion and fact.


What they wanted was for the case to be heard in a higher court
and the 'subpoena was to keep her alive till it could because dead
people don't have standing.

Tell Pat Mahoney.

Rev. Pat Mahoney was formerly with the anti-abortion group
Operation Rescue and is now executive director of the Christian
Defense Coalition, "an informal but growing network of
conservative, religious and disability organizations who, with the
click of a computer mouse, are enlisting hundreds of thousands of
people in Bob and Mary Schindler's fight to keep their daughter
Terri Schiavo alive."

"The first goal of the campaign, Mahoney said, is to save Terri
Schiavo's life. But he and others also hope to roll back the laws
and ethical and medical guidelines that have evolved since 1990,
when the U.S. Supreme Court recognized artificial sustenance and
hydration as medical treatment." Knight Ridder, March 14, 2005.


Tell John Sternberger.

John Stemberger, president of the Orlando, FL,-based Florida Family
Policy Council, says that "Food and water is not medical treatment.
It's ordinary care, ... Our primary interest is what the law should
be, not what the law is, and this will be one of our top
priorities: to create new public policy." Bradenton Herald, March
14, 2005


"You wouldn't recognize a fact if it hit you in the face", right?
=)

In what fantasy world do you live where Mahoney and Stemberger serve
in Congress?

Serve in Congress? Not to my knowledge. What are you whining
about about now, redefining sad sack?

The topic was what "the government" did, stupid.


More pathetic redefinition, to cover your lie.


flipper wrote:
On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 09:07:13 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

flipper wrote:

In the first place, 'the government', in the form of the courts, was
already involved but, more to the point, 'righties', as you call
them, think the Congress has no business in the matter then, or
now, whether Republican, Democrat, or the current loony tunes.

Righties insisted Congress take up the issue.


Obama is going to put you in his 'fishy' list if you don't stop
calling him a 'rightie'.

Fact.

You wouldn't recognize a 'fact' if it hit you in the face.

What they wanted was for the case to be heard in a higher court and
the 'subpoena was to keep her alive till it could because dead people
don't have standing.


Pretending you have to be in Congress to be known as a "rightie" is your
dumbest redefinition yet.

You ar a puerile intellectaul coward.

flipper wrote:
On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 11:53:10 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 16:21:57 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 09:13:43 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 14:13:33 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 10:06:39 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

Tom Del Rosso wrote:
Jim Thompson wrote:
Fascism at its finest...

Repeat After Me: There Are No Death Panels in Socialized
Heathcare...

http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/291725.php

==quote==
In a letter to The Daily Telegraph, a group of experts who
care for the terminally ill claim that some patients are
being wrongly judged as close to death.
Under NHS guidance introduced across England to help doctors
and medical staff deal with dying patients, they can then
have fluid and drugs withdrawn and many are put on
continuous sedation until they pass away.

"Doctors and medical staff...can."

So, where are the governmental death panels?

The NHS.

Made-up crap.

There the ones who decide what does, or does not, get provided.

Funny, the article says otherwise. lol

No it doesn't

A pathetic lie.


and even if it did 'the article' doesn't write law in
England.

HAW HAW HAW HAW You're an idiot.

Being called an idiot by an idiot is no insult.

And 'the article' still doesn't write law in England.

Perhaps the dumbest retort you've come up with yet. lol

That you don't grasp the concept that articles don't write law is your
problem.

But this approach can also mask the signs that their
condition is improving, the experts warn.

As a result the scheme is causing a "national crisis" in
patient care, the letter states. It has been signed
palliative care experts including Professor Peter Millard,
Emeritus Professor of Geriatrics, University of London, Dr
Peter Hargreaves, a consultant in Palliative Medicine at St
Luke's cancer centre in Guildford, and four others.

"Forecasting death is an inexact science," they say.
Patients are being diagnosed as being close to death
"without regard to the fact that the diagnosis could be
wrong.

"As a result a national wave of discontent is building up,
as family and friends witness the denial of fluids and food
to patients."

The warning comes just a week after a report by the Patients
Association estimated that up to one million patients had
received poor or cruel care on the NHS.

We certainly know the same and worse is true of the US
health care system. 45 million are uninsured, for starts.


A falsehood, for starters, as hospitals are required to
provide services regardless of ability to pay.

That's not insurance. 45 million uninsured, when you get
something let me know.

Insurance is not healthcare and the topic was "poor or cruel
care on the NHS," not 'insurance'.


No, redefining sad sack, I made a comment about the US health
system and you took that up.

I don't give a flying fig what you 'call it' the article and topic
was about "poor or cruel care" and insurance is not "healthcare."

Then don't respond when I talk about insurance, redefining sad
sack.

I'll respond any way I please and it pleases me to be on topic.

That you're too brain dead to tell the difference between 'care' and
'insurance' is your problem, not mine.

More pathetic redefinition crap. lol

Try a dictionary. You'll find that "care" and "insurance" are
different things.

We certainly know the same and worse is true of the US
health care system. 45 million are uninsured, for starts.


A falsehood, for starters, as hospitals are required to
provide services regardless of ability to pay.


In fact, where George Bush had a chance to make law, they can
shut your ass right off while your relatives watch in horror.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0322-03.htm

"As Wasserman Schultz said on the House floor, the Texas law lays
out procedures for physicians to follow when they think a
patient's condition is hopeless, even if family members
disagree. Doctors can make a case to their hospital's ethics
committee. If the ethics committee agrees, life support can be
removed. "

Rightie hero George W. Bush, death panels, 2005. Who'da thunk.
=)


In the first place we aren't talking about Texas law,

We are now. Try to keep up.

No, "we" are not.


The article specified that doctors made the decisions in Britain,
you began lying about it outright.

Under direction of the NHS.

Nope. Nonbinding guidance.

False.

Prove it.

flipper wrote:
On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 11:54:13 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 09:17:54 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

UltimatePatriot wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 10:06:39 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

Tom Del Rosso wrote:
Jim Thompson wrote:
Fascism at its finest...

Repeat After Me: There Are No Death Panels in Socialized
Heathcare...

http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/291725.php

==quote==
In a letter to The Daily Telegraph, a group of experts who care
for the terminally ill claim that some patients are being
wrongly judged as close to death.
Under NHS guidance introduced across England to help doctors and
medical staff deal with dying patients, they can then have fluid
and drugs withdrawn and many are put on continuous sedation
until they pass away.

"Doctors and medical staff...can."

So, where are the governmental death panels?



But this approach can also mask the signs that their condition
is improving, the experts warn.

As a result the scheme is causing a "national crisis" in patient
care, the letter states. It has been signed palliative care
experts including Professor Peter Millard, Emeritus Professor of
Geriatrics, University of London, Dr Peter Hargreaves, a
consultant in Palliative Medicine at St Luke's cancer centre in
Guildford, and four others.

"Forecasting death is an inexact science," they say. Patients
are being diagnosed as being close to death "without regard to
the fact that the diagnosis could be wrong.

"As a result a national wave of discontent is building up, as
family and friends witness the denial of fluids and food to
patients."

The warning comes just a week after a report by the Patients
Association estimated that up to one million patients had
received poor or cruel care on the NHS.

We certainly know the same and worse is true of the US health
care system. 45 million are uninsured, for starts.


45 million are also without employment.

We do not need our president manipulating the current health care
system,

Name me a president who has not done so.


Irrelevant because past sins, whether real or perceived, are not an
excuse to commit more and even greater sins.

I wasn't talking to you, redefining sad sack.

It's irrelevant who you were 'talking to'. Past sins, whether real or
perceived, are still not an excuse to commit more and even greater
sins.

"Sins", lol Better go find another strawman, puerile intellectual
coward.

flipper wrote:
On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 14:14:31 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 11:51:04 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 14:50:16 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 09:07:13 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 10:03:56 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 01:47:29 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote:


Jim Thompson wrote:
Fascism at its finest...

Repeat After Me: There Are No Death Panels in Socialized
Heathcare...

http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/291725.php

==quote==
In a letter to The Daily Telegraph, a group of experts who
care for the terminally ill claim that some patients are
being wrongly judged as close to death.
Under NHS guidance introduced across England to help
doctors and medical staff deal with dying patients, they
can then have fluid and drugs withdrawn and many are put
on continuous sedation until they pass away.

But this approach can also mask the signs that their
condition is improving, the experts warn.

As a result the scheme is causing a "national crisis" in
patient care, the letter states. It has been signed
palliative care experts including Professor Peter Millard,
Emeritus Professor of Geriatrics, University of London, Dr
Peter Hargreaves, a consultant in Palliative Medicine at St
Luke's cancer centre in Guildford, and four others.

"Forecasting death is an inexact science," they say.
Patients are being diagnosed as being close to death
"without regard to the fact that the diagnosis could be
wrong.

"As a result a national wave of discontent is building up,
as family and friends witness the denial of fluids and
food to patients."

The warning comes just a week after a report by the
Patients Association estimated that up to one million
patients had received poor or cruel care on the NHS.
==quote==

A few years ago Florida had a case of "denial of fluids and
food" to a patient who was not even near death. I still
think you, Jim, were on the wrong side of that one.

While the courts ended up playing referee on which private
citizen would prevail at least that case was a dispute
between family members on what to do

...Until the righties insisted the government take over that
decision. lol


In the first place, 'the government', in the form of the
courts, was already involved but, more to the point,
'righties', as you call them, think the Congress has no
business in the matter then, or now, whether Republican,
Democrat, or the current loony tunes.

Righties insisted Congress take up the issue.


Obama is going to put you in his 'fishy' list if you don't stop
calling him a 'rightie'.

"Fishy list", lol

cuckoo cuckoo cuckoo

Obama agrees with me.

In which fantasy land do you live where Obama is a 'rightie'?

Fact.

You wouldn't recognize a 'fact' if it hit you in the face.

Another pathetic lie.

Hell, you don't even recognize your own words, much less have any
concept of opinion and fact.


What they wanted was for the case to be heard in a higher court
and the 'subpoena was to keep her alive till it could because
dead people don't have standing.

Tell Pat Mahoney.

Rev. Pat Mahoney was formerly with the anti-abortion group
Operation Rescue and is now executive director of the Christian
Defense Coalition, "an informal but growing network of
conservative, religious and disability organizations who, with
the click of a computer mouse, are enlisting hundreds of
thousands of people in Bob and Mary Schindler's fight to keep
their daughter Terri Schiavo alive."

"The first goal of the campaign, Mahoney said, is to save Terri
Schiavo's life. But he and others also hope to roll back the laws
and ethical and medical guidelines that have evolved since 1990,
when the U.S. Supreme Court recognized artificial sustenance and
hydration as medical treatment." Knight Ridder, March 14, 2005.


Tell John Sternberger.

John Stemberger, president of the Orlando, FL,-based Florida
Family Policy Council, says that "Food and water is not medical
treatment. It's ordinary care, ... Our primary interest is what
the law should be, not what the law is, and this will be one of
our top priorities: to create new public policy." Bradenton
Herald, March 14, 2005


"You wouldn't recognize a fact if it hit you in the face",
right? =)

In what fantasy world do you live where Mahoney and Stemberger
serve in Congress?

Serve in Congress? Not to my knowledge. What are you whining
about about now, redefining sad sack?

The topic was what "the government" did, stupid.


More pathetic redefinition, to cover your lie.

So now you don't know what 'the government' is.


flipper wrote:
On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 09:07:13 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

flipper wrote:

In the first place, 'the government', in the form of the courts,
was already involved but, more to the point, 'righties', as you
call them, think the Congress has no business in the matter then,
or now, whether Republican, Democrat, or the current loony tunes.

Righties insisted Congress take up the issue.


Obama is going to put you in his 'fishy' list if you don't stop
calling him a 'rightie'.

Fact.

You wouldn't recognize a 'fact' if it hit you in the face.

What they wanted was for the case to be heard in a higher court and
the 'subpoena was to keep her alive till it could because dead
people don't have standing.


Pretending you have to be in Congress to be known as a "rightie" is
your dumbest redefinition yet.

Your strawman is, indeed, the dumbest redefinition yet.

People are free to espouse any view they want but that isn't the
government and as for your pathetic attempts to 'define' so called
'righties', Obama voted to keep her alive.


You ar a puerile intellectaul coward.


Your safe from a forced lobotomy because there's nothing to remove.

So, your failure to refute my statements is unbroken. Have a nice life!

flipper wrote:
On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 14:15:01 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 11:53:10 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 16:21:57 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 09:13:43 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 14:13:33 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 10:06:39 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

Tom Del Rosso wrote:
Jim Thompson wrote:
Fascism at its finest...

Repeat After Me: There Are No Death Panels in Socialized
Heathcare...

http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/291725.php

==quote==
In a letter to The Daily Telegraph, a group of experts who
care for the terminally ill claim that some patients are
being wrongly judged as close to death.
Under NHS guidance introduced across England to help
doctors and medical staff deal with dying patients, they
can then have fluid and drugs withdrawn and many are put
on continuous sedation until they pass away.

"Doctors and medical staff...can."

So, where are the governmental death panels?

The NHS.

Made-up crap.

There the ones who decide what does, or does not, get
provided.

Funny, the article says otherwise. lol

No it doesn't

A pathetic lie.


and even if it did 'the article' doesn't write law in
England.

HAW HAW HAW HAW You're an idiot.

Being called an idiot by an idiot is no insult.

And 'the article' still doesn't write law in England.

Perhaps the dumbest retort you've come up with yet. lol

That you don't grasp the concept that articles don't write law is
your problem.

But this approach can also mask the signs that their
condition is improving, the experts warn.

As a result the scheme is causing a "national crisis" in
patient care, the letter states. It has been signed
palliative care experts including Professor Peter Millard,
Emeritus Professor of Geriatrics, University of London, Dr
Peter Hargreaves, a consultant in Palliative Medicine at
St Luke's cancer centre in Guildford, and four others.

"Forecasting death is an inexact science," they say.
Patients are being diagnosed as being close to death
"without regard to the fact that the diagnosis could be
wrong.

"As a result a national wave of discontent is building up,
as family and friends witness the denial of fluids and
food to patients."

The warning comes just a week after a report by the
Patients Association estimated that up to one million
patients had received poor or cruel care on the NHS.

We certainly know the same and worse is true of the US
health care system. 45 million are uninsured, for starts.


A falsehood, for starters, as hospitals are required to
provide services regardless of ability to pay.

That's not insurance. 45 million uninsured, when you get
something let me know.

Insurance is not healthcare and the topic was "poor or cruel
care on the NHS," not 'insurance'.


No, redefining sad sack, I made a comment about the US health
system and you took that up.

I don't give a flying fig what you 'call it' the article and
topic was about "poor or cruel care" and insurance is not
"healthcare."

Then don't respond when I talk about insurance, redefining sad
sack.

I'll respond any way I please and it pleases me to be on topic.

That you're too brain dead to tell the difference between 'care'
and 'insurance' is your problem, not mine.

More pathetic redefinition crap. lol

Try a dictionary. You'll find that "care" and "insurance" are
different things.

We certainly know the same and worse is true of the US
health care system. 45 million are uninsured, for starts.


A falsehood, for starters, as hospitals are required to
provide services regardless of ability to pay.


In fact, where George Bush had a chance to make law, they can
shut your ass right off while your relatives watch in horror.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0322-03.htm

"As Wasserman Schultz said on the House floor, the Texas law
lays out procedures for physicians to follow when they think a
patient's condition is hopeless, even if family members
disagree. Doctors can make a case to their hospital's ethics
committee. If the ethics committee agrees, life support can be
removed. "

Rightie hero George W. Bush, death panels, 2005. Who'da
thunk. =)


In the first place we aren't talking about Texas law,

We are now. Try to keep up.

No, "we" are not.


The article specified that doctors made the decisions in
Britain, you began lying about it outright.

Under direction of the NHS.

Nope. Nonbinding guidance.

False.

Prove it.


Again the liar snips out what he claims to ask for but that was
already provided.

Never happened. So, your failure to refute my statements remains
unbroken. Have a nice life!

flipper wrote:
On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 14:16:12 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 11:54:13 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

flipper wrote:
On Fri, 4 Sep 2009 09:17:54 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

UltimatePatriot wrote:
On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 10:06:39 -0500, "Ouroboros Rex"
wrote:

Tom Del Rosso wrote:
Jim Thompson wrote:
Fascism at its finest...

Repeat After Me: There Are No Death Panels in Socialized
Heathcare...

http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/291725.php

==quote==
In a letter to The Daily Telegraph, a group of experts who
care for the terminally ill claim that some patients are being
wrongly judged as close to death.
Under NHS guidance introduced across England to help doctors
and medical staff deal with dying patients, they can then
have fluid and drugs withdrawn and many are put on continuous
sedation until they pass away.

"Doctors and medical staff...can."

So, where are the governmental death panels?



But this approach can also mask the signs that their condition
is improving, the experts warn.

As a result the scheme is causing a "national crisis" in
patient care, the letter states. It has been signed
palliative care experts including Professor Peter Millard,
Emeritus Professor of Geriatrics, University of London, Dr
Peter Hargreaves, a consultant in Palliative Medicine at St
Luke's cancer centre in Guildford, and four others.

"Forecasting death is an inexact science," they say. Patients
are being diagnosed as being close to death "without regard to
the fact that the diagnosis could be wrong.

"As a result a national wave of discontent is building up, as
family and friends witness the denial of fluids and food to
patients."

The warning comes just a week after a report by the Patients
Association estimated that up to one million patients had
received poor or cruel care on the NHS.

We certainly know the same and worse is true of the US health
care system. 45 million are uninsured, for starts.


45 million are also without employment.

We do not need our president manipulating the current health
care system,

Name me a president who has not done so.


Irrelevant because past sins, whether real or perceived, are not
an excuse to commit more and even greater sins.

I wasn't talking to you, redefining sad sack.

It's irrelevant who you were 'talking to'. Past sins, whether real
or perceived, are still not an excuse to commit more and even
greater sins.

"Sins", lol Better go find another strawman, puerile intellectual
coward.


Try a dictionary sometime.

Merriam Webster

"b : an action that is or is felt to be highly reprehensible it's a
sin to waste food c : an often serious shortcoming : fault"

Never happened. So, your failure to refute my statements remains
unbroken. Have a nice life!