flipper wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
Bungalow Bill wrote:

The goddamned war didn't do anything but make the asswupes that commit
terror acts wake the **** up to the fact that we ain't gonna take it.

It seems to have provoked them further actually.

So did fighting Hitler and Tojo.

WW2 had nothing in common with the totally illegal war on Iraq.

Graham

"Joerg" wrote in message
t...
Just went through a tight electricity supply-demand squeeze again. This
graph looks like it was a real close call.

Doing our part on conservation here, 91F in the lab, soldering away,
occasionally wiping the sweat off before it drips onto the boards.


wow thats over 3.21 gigawatts

Colin =^.^=

On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 20:10:08 -0700, "Herbert John \"Jackie\" Gleason"
wrote:

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 21:14:13 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 18:31:06 -0700, "Herbert John \"Jackie\" Gleason"
wrote:

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:50:06 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:


Yes, that's true. L.A. gets its top-off from our APS Nuclear facility
in Wintersburg, Arizona.

...Jim Thompson


Bull****. LA gets it from the BPS DC Intertie.

Your **** is trivial dribs and drabs by comparison.

Your ignorance is surpassed only by the size of the Al-Gore-dick in
your mouth.

Who=the-**** do you think feeds the intertie?

...Jim Thompson


NOT Arizona, you retarded ****.

Do you even know what the BPA is?

"Herbert", YOU are the definition of a ****-tard...

http://explorer.altopix.com/map/vsv2...ower_Plant.htm

I know your mind is a bit slow, so read out loud ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave

Stephen J. Rush wrote:

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:47:19 -0700, Joerg wrote:

Maybe. Power plants are supposedly evil, so practically none are built.
Nuclear is even more evil in the eyes of enviro-freaks. No wait, that's
nucular, ain't it ...?

But of course they all want their fresh cooled fromage, chilled Zin and
all that stuff.

The late John W. Campbell maintained that some of the greenies are so
ignorant of physics that they literally don't see the relation between
that ugly power plant down the road and the magic that allows them to get
ice in August and keep meat for more than a few hours without worrying
that it might become unsafe to eat. Oh, they dimly remember what they
heard in elementary-school science classes, but it just doesn't register
emotionally, any more than the mid-nineteenth-century hunters could
believe that they would ever run out of buffalo. Rudyard Kipling saw it
coming more than a century ago; look up "The Sons of Martha" at
gutenberg.org.

There are some technically literate greenies. This online book thing is
interesting:

http://www.withouthotair.com/

Chris

flipper posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic:

On 31 Aug 2007 21:38:51 GMT, Bob Quintal
wrote:

flipper wrote in
m:

On 30 Aug 2007 23:44:17 GMT, Bob Quintal
wrote:

flipper wrote in
m:

On 30 Aug 2007 00:45:12 GMT, Bob Quintal
wrote:
And the grid in California was f#%ked by the right-wing
capitalists like Ken Lay when they forced deregulation on hte
unsuspecting weenies (to use your term)..

No, the problem is the CA legislature 'called' the
'restructuring' deregulation but didn't deregulate. Instead,
they layered on a new set of truly bizarre regulations.

That's your opinion.

Of course.

And it's a misinformed one.

On the contrary, I looked at the 'restructuring' before forming
any opinion, as opposed to you just assuming, without the
slightest shred of evidence to support the notion,. that anyone
who has a different opinion 'must' be 'misinformed'.

California's problem was exacerbated by power grid gaming but the
FERC report pointed out that the ensuing market manipulation was
only possible because of the bizarre regulatory system the
legislature created.

Whose lobbyists created that bizarre regulatory system?

No one's. Lobbyists 'lobbied' and it was your legislature that
decided whether to listen or not and which, if any,
'recommendations' to accept or reject.

It was
lobbyists from the power brokers, that's who.
Why? so that they could use the loopholes they put into the
legislation in order to manipulate the market.

That's certainly one of the standard Chatty Cathy pull string doll
prerecorded 'conspiracy' messages and a canned bugaboo sure solves
the problem of having to think about it... but solves nothing else.

Btw, those 'nasty and evil' industry experts warned California from
day 1 that the legislation was a recipe for power outages and price
gouging, but no one listened.


Just as one example, California regulations artificially capped
the price for in state production while out of state production
was not, thereby creating a forced "two prices for the exact same
product." Guess what that leads to.

It leads to utility companies making a mint by buying cheap and
selling high.

One could almost write a book about just that one sentence.

For one, 'buy low and sell high' is the natural order of things and
who would bother expending their time and energy to start a company,
run a company, or work for a company if there were no profit in it?
Don't you expect to be paid for your work?

Are you using 'utilities' as some general term for 'power industry',
or what? Because one of the problems was the regulations requiring
"utilities" to purchase on the high price spot market, prohibiting
them from lower cost long term contracts, and then requiring them to
'sell low' at regulated rates. Exactly the opposite of your "buying
cheap and selling high." And, as I alluded to in the above "natural
order of things," that resulted in them going bankrupt.

But that was only one of the problems and not related to the one I
brought up. No, when your force, by regulation, a lower in state
price than the open market you de-incentivize the construction of in
state power generation because who in their right mind is going to
build new power plants where they lose money instead of where they
can make a profit?

It also creates an artificial environment that not only enables but
begs abuse that wouldn't be possible without it.

--
Bob Quintal

PA is y I've altered my email address.




--
Bob Quintal

PA is y I've altered my email address.




--
Bob Quintal

PA is y I've altered my email address.

Study your history a bit more carefully, The legislation was written
essentially as PG&E an SC&E recommend. Guess who they were behodin'
to.

JosephKK wrote in
et:

flipper posted to
alt.binaries.schematics.electronic:

On 31 Aug 2007 21:38:51 GMT, Bob Quintal
wrote:
That's your opinion.

Of course.

And it's a misinformed one.

On the contrary, I looked at the 'restructuring' before forming
any opinion, as opposed to you just assuming, without the
slightest shred of evidence to support the notion,. that anyone
who has a different opinion 'must' be 'misinformed'.

California's problem was exacerbated by power grid gaming but
the FERC report pointed out that the ensuing market
manipulation was only possible because of the bizarre
regulatory system the legislature created.

Whose lobbyists created that bizarre regulatory system?

No one's. Lobbyists 'lobbied' and it was your legislature that
decided whether to listen or not and which, if any,
'recommendations' to accept or reject.

It was
lobbyists from the power brokers, that's who.
Why? so that they could use the loopholes they put into the
legislation in order to manipulate the market.

That's certainly one of the standard Chatty Cathy pull string
doll prerecorded 'conspiracy' messages and a canned bugaboo sure
solves the problem of having to think about it... but solves
nothing else.


Study your history a bit more carefully, The legislation was
written essentially as PG&E an SC&E recommend. Guess who they
were behodin' to.



As Lily Tomlin often remarked on Laugh-In
"And dat's the trruuuthhh, pfpfpfpfpfpfpfpfpfppp!!!!"

--
Bob Quintal

PA is y I've altered my email address.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"Bob Quintal" wrote in message


Whose lobbyists created that bizarre regulatory system? It was
lobbyists from the power brokers, that's who.
Why? so that they could use the loopholes they put into the
legislation in order to manipulate the market.

All I ever heard from the left in those days was that it was the fault of
"deregulation". It's about time everyone realizes it was a "regulatory
system", and not a free market, that was responsible. At least a majority
of Californians knew enough to get rid of Davis.


--

Reply in group, but if emailing add another
zero, and remove the last word.

"Tom Del Rosso" wrote in
:

"Bob Quintal" wrote in message


Whose lobbyists created that bizarre regulatory system? It was
lobbyists from the power brokers, that's who.
Why? so that they could use the loopholes they put into the
legislation in order to manipulate the market.

All I ever heard from the left in those days was that it was the
fault of "deregulation". It's about time everyone realizes it was
a "regulatory system", and not a free market, that was
responsible. At least a majority of Californians knew enough to
get rid of Davis.

There is no such thing as deregulation. If you remove all the
regulation by government, the companies set up their own regulations
that serve to benefit themselves, inhibit new entries from competing
against the established ones, and generally shaft the consumer.



--
Bob Quintal

PA is y I've altered my email address.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

flipper wrote in
:

On 04 Sep 2007 23:26:09 GMT, Bob Quintal
wrote:

"Tom Del Rosso" wrote in
:

"Bob Quintal" wrote in message


Whose lobbyists created that bizarre regulatory system? It was
lobbyists from the power brokers, that's who.
Why? so that they could use the loopholes they put into the
legislation in order to manipulate the market.

All I ever heard from the left in those days was that it was the
fault of "deregulation". It's about time everyone realizes it
was
a "regulatory system", and not a free market, that was
responsible. At least a majority of Californians knew enough to
get rid of Davis.

There is no such thing as deregulation. If you remove all the
regulation by government, the companies set up their own
regulations
that serve to benefit themselves, inhibit new entries from
competing
against the established ones, and generally shaft the consumer.

Nice job at the 'warped word' game but companies have no means to
enforce 'regulation' on each other. What you describe, if it
existed,
would be 'collusion', or a 'cartel', or some other 'cooperative
agreement', but not 'regulation'.

If you really believe that companies do not collude in fixing the
game, you are a Polyanna. Just Google up the phrase "Trade
Associations", and read how they keep their members in line with the
policise they set.

Btw, 'organized theft' is unethical whether it's perpetrated by
'business' or the 'public'.

Companies don't give a rat's ass about ethics.


--
Bob Quintal

PA is y I've altered my email address.




--
Bob Quintal

PA is y I've altered my email address.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

flipper wrote in
:

On 07 Sep 2007 09:16:34 GMT, Bob Quintal
wrote:
Companies don't give a rat's ass about ethics.

"Companies" are legal entities, not 'beings', and, as such, don't
"give a rat's ass" about anything. The people who make up a company,
however, do.

companies, even though they are not physical people, take on a
corporate mentality, often based on the attitudes of the directors and
managers, and behaviour at a corporate level that reflects those
mentalities.

BTW I have been involved in trade associations, as well as professional
associations, and do not attempt to tell me that they do not do
whatever it takes to protect their turf from interlopers.

--
Bob Quintal

PA is y I've altered my email address.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

flipper wrote in
:

In fact, everyone, meaning people, has 'interests' and tend to
'protect' those interests but if by "whatever it takes" you mean
rape pillage, burn, murder, commit any immorality and break any
law then you're making an irrational hate accusation.

you are a pistachio.
[Plonk]

--
Bob Quintal

PA is y I've altered my email address.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com