Just went through a tight electricity supply-demand squeeze again. This
graph looks like it was a real close call.

Doing our part on conservation here, 91F in the lab, soldering away,
occasionally wiping the sweat off before it drips onto the boards.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:47:21 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

Just went through a tight electricity supply-demand squeeze again. This
graph looks like it was a real close call.

Doing our part on conservation here, 91F in the lab, soldering away,
occasionally wiping the sweat off before it drips onto the boards.

How come California has such issues? Did you let the leftist weenies
ruin your state ?:-)

Arizona doesn't have water shortages or power problems... why does CA?

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:47:21 -0700, Joerg
wrote:


Just went through a tight electricity supply-demand squeeze again. This
graph looks like it was a real close call.

Doing our part on conservation here, 91F in the lab, soldering away,
occasionally wiping the sweat off before it drips onto the boards.


How come California has such issues? Did you let the leftist weenies
ruin your state ?:-)


Maybe. Power plants are supposedly evil, so practically none are built.
Nuclear is even more evil in the eyes of enviro-freaks. No wait, that's
nucular, ain't it ...?

But of course they all want their fresh cooled fromage, chilled Zin and
all that stuff.


Arizona doesn't have water shortages or power problems... why does CA?


L.A. slurps it all up.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:47:19 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:47:21 -0700, Joerg
wrote:


Just went through a tight electricity supply-demand squeeze again. This
graph looks like it was a real close call.

Doing our part on conservation here, 91F in the lab, soldering away,
occasionally wiping the sweat off before it drips onto the boards.


How come California has such issues? Did you let the leftist weenies
ruin your state ?:-)


Maybe. Power plants are supposedly evil, so practically none are built.
Nuclear is even more evil in the eyes of enviro-freaks. No wait, that's
nucular, ain't it ...?

But of course they all want their fresh cooled fromage, chilled Zin and
all that stuff.


Arizona doesn't have water shortages or power problems... why does CA?


L.A. slurps it all up.

Yes, that's true. L.A. gets its top-off from our APS Nuclear facility
in Wintersburg, Arizona.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave

"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...

snip
Yes, that's true. L.A. gets its top-off from our APS Nuclear facility
in Wintersburg, Arizona.



Is it a top-off or an unrequested fission surplus? ;-)

On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 01:08:59 -0500, "Lord Garth"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...

snip
Yes, that's true. L.A. gets its top-off from our APS Nuclear facility
in Wintersburg, Arizona.



Is it a top-off or an unrequested fission surplus? ;-)



Actually, more output from that facility goes to California than to
Arizona right now.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 18:31:06 -0700, "Herbert John \"Jackie\" Gleason"
wrote:

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:50:06 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:


Yes, that's true. L.A. gets its top-off from our APS Nuclear facility
in Wintersburg, Arizona.

...Jim Thompson


Bull****. LA gets it from the BPS DC Intertie.

Your **** is trivial dribs and drabs by comparison.

Your ignorance is surpassed only by the size of the Al-Gore-dick in
your mouth.

Who=the-**** do you think feeds the intertie?

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave

Herbert John "Jackie" Gleason wrote:
On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 21:14:13 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 18:31:06 -0700, "Herbert John \"Jackie\" Gleason"
wrote:

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:50:06 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

Yes, that's true. L.A. gets its top-off from our APS Nuclear facility
in Wintersburg, Arizona.

...Jim Thompson

Bull****. LA gets it from the BPS DC Intertie.

Your **** is trivial dribs and drabs by comparison.
Your ignorance is surpassed only by the size of the Al-Gore-dick in
your mouth.

Who=the-**** do you think feeds the intertie?

...Jim Thompson


NOT Arizona, you retarded ****.

Do you even know what the BPA is?

The damn dam,man!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonnevi...Administration

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_DC_Intertie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Path_66
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Path_15

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylmar%...%2C_California

Etc,etc,yadda,yadda....

On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 20:10:08 -0700, "Herbert John \"Jackie\" Gleason"
wrote:

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 21:14:13 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 18:31:06 -0700, "Herbert John \"Jackie\" Gleason"
wrote:

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:50:06 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:


Yes, that's true. L.A. gets its top-off from our APS Nuclear facility
in Wintersburg, Arizona.

...Jim Thompson


Bull****. LA gets it from the BPS DC Intertie.

Your **** is trivial dribs and drabs by comparison.

Your ignorance is surpassed only by the size of the Al-Gore-dick in
your mouth.

Who=the-**** do you think feeds the intertie?

...Jim Thompson


NOT Arizona, you retarded ****.

Do you even know what the BPA is?

"Herbert", YOU are the definition of a ****-tard...

http://explorer.altopix.com/map/vsv2...ower_Plant.htm

I know your mind is a bit slow, so read out loud ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave

Herbert John \Jackoff wrote:


Nothing, as usual.

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:47:19 -0700, Joerg wrote:

Maybe. Power plants are supposedly evil, so practically none are built.
Nuclear is even more evil in the eyes of enviro-freaks. No wait, that's
nucular, ain't it ...?

But of course they all want their fresh cooled fromage, chilled Zin and
all that stuff.

The late John W. Campbell maintained that some of the greenies are so
ignorant of physics that they literally don't see the relation between
that ugly power plant down the road and the magic that allows them to get
ice in August and keep meat for more than a few hours without worrying
that it might become unsafe to eat. Oh, they dimly remember what they
heard in elementary-school science classes, but it just doesn't register
emotionally, any more than the mid-nineteenth-century hunters could
believe that they would ever run out of buffalo. Rudyard Kipling saw it
coming more than a century ago; look up "The Sons of Martha" at
gutenberg.org.

Stephen J. Rush wrote:

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:47:19 -0700, Joerg wrote:


Maybe. Power plants are supposedly evil, so practically none are built.
Nuclear is even more evil in the eyes of enviro-freaks. No wait, that's
nucular, ain't it ...?

But of course they all want their fresh cooled fromage, chilled Zin and
all that stuff.


The late John W. Campbell maintained that some of the greenies are so
ignorant of physics that they literally don't see the relation between
that ugly power plant down the road and the magic that allows them to get
ice in August and keep meat for more than a few hours without worrying
that it might become unsafe to eat. Oh, they dimly remember what they
heard in elementary-school science classes, but it just doesn't register
emotionally, any more than the mid-nineteenth-century hunters could
believe that they would ever run out of buffalo. Rudyard Kipling saw it
coming more than a century ago; look up "The Sons of Martha" at
gutenberg.org.


And then some of them tout electric cars. It's pathetic, many of them
don't have a clue.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

"Stephen J. Rush" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:47:19 -0700, Joerg wrote:

Maybe. Power plants are supposedly evil, so practically none are built.
Nuclear is even more evil in the eyes of enviro-freaks. No wait, that's
nucular, ain't it ...?

But of course they all want their fresh cooled fromage, chilled Zin and
all that stuff.

The late John W. Campbell maintained that some of the greenies are so
ignorant of physics that they literally don't see the relation between
that ugly power plant down the road and the magic that allows them to get
ice in August and keep meat for more than a few hours without worrying
that it might become unsafe to eat. Oh, they dimly remember what they
heard in elementary-school science classes, but it just doesn't register
emotionally, any more than the mid-nineteenth-century hunters could
believe that they would ever run out of buffalo. Rudyard Kipling saw it
coming more than a century ago; look up "The Sons of Martha" at
gutenberg.org.

I'm a lurker to this group.
For the conspiracy people, the five messages before this one
(that I can see headers for) are "no longer available on this server"

On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 22:27:37 GMT, "regn.pickford"
wrote:


"Stephen J. Rush" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:47:19 -0700, Joerg wrote:

Maybe. Power plants are supposedly evil, so practically none are built.
Nuclear is even more evil in the eyes of enviro-freaks. No wait, that's
nucular, ain't it ...?

But of course they all want their fresh cooled fromage, chilled Zin and
all that stuff.

The late John W. Campbell maintained that some of the greenies are so
ignorant of physics that they literally don't see the relation between
that ugly power plant down the road and the magic that allows them to get
ice in August and keep meat for more than a few hours without worrying
that it might become unsafe to eat. Oh, they dimly remember what they
heard in elementary-school science classes, but it just doesn't register
emotionally, any more than the mid-nineteenth-century hunters could
believe that they would ever run out of buffalo. Rudyard Kipling saw it
coming more than a century ago; look up "The Sons of Martha" at
gutenberg.org.

I'm a lurker to this group.
For the conspiracy people, the five messages before this one
(that I can see headers for) are "no longer available on this server"



Do you live in California? The Terminator will be paying a visit ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave

regn.pickford wrote:

"Stephen J. Rush" wrote in message
. ..

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:47:19 -0700, Joerg wrote:


Maybe. Power plants are supposedly evil, so practically none are built.
Nuclear is even more evil in the eyes of enviro-freaks. No wait, that's
nucular, ain't it ...?

But of course they all want their fresh cooled fromage, chilled Zin and
all that stuff.

The late John W. Campbell maintained that some of the greenies are so
ignorant of physics that they literally don't see the relation between
that ugly power plant down the road and the magic that allows them to get
ice in August and keep meat for more than a few hours without worrying
that it might become unsafe to eat. Oh, they dimly remember what they
heard in elementary-school science classes, but it just doesn't register
emotionally, any more than the mid-nineteenth-century hunters could
believe that they would ever run out of buffalo. Rudyard Kipling saw it
coming more than a century ago; look up "The Sons of Martha" at
gutenberg.org.


I'm a lurker to this group.
For the conspiracy people, the five messages before this one
(that I can see headers for) are "no longer available on this server"


That begs the question: Who controlleth thy server? But seriously,
binaries groups aren't kept that long. Mine (SBC Global) still has all
messages.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 22:36:32 -0500, Stephen J. Rush wrote:

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:47:19 -0700, Joerg wrote:

Maybe. Power plants are supposedly evil, so practically none are built.
Nuclear is even more evil in the eyes of enviro-freaks. No wait, that's
nucular, ain't it ...?

But of course they all want their fresh cooled fromage, chilled Zin and
all that stuff.

The late John W. Campbell maintained that some of the greenies are so
ignorant of physics that they literally don't see the relation between
that ugly power plant down the road and the magic that allows them to get
ice in August and keep meat for more than a few hours without worrying
that it might become unsafe to eat. Oh, they dimly remember what they
heard in elementary-school science classes, but it just doesn't register
emotionally, any more than the mid-nineteenth-century hunters could
believe that they would ever run out of buffalo. Rudyard Kipling saw it
coming more than a century ago; look up "The Sons of Martha" at
gutenberg.org.

What galls me is the way they pulled off the ozone hoax. OOh! This gas
that's 4 times as heavy as air magically levitates (conveniently skipping
over the smog ozone in the cities), migrates to the South Pole, and
destroys ozone.

What an incredible load of crap!

And the whole "science community" seems to have swallowed it hook, line,
and sinker!

Where do those idiots think the original ozone comes from? What replaces
what gets broken down? Do they know that ozone decomposes spontaneously?

The ozone isn't what "protects" us from UV. It's the oxygen. The oxygen
stops a UV photon, which dissociates the O2 into 2 O, which atoms then
eagerly oxidize the nearest oxygen molecule into ozone.

In Other Words, ozone is the _result_ of UV being absorbed by plain
ol' ordinary O2, molecular oxygen.

There's no ozone over antarctita because there's so little incident
sunlight, and ozone breaks down spontaneously anyway.

When they discovered this "hole" the only reason it could be so astounding
is that nobody's ever looked before.

And don'f forget the Auroras (streams of charged particles from the Solar
Wind), which have to be hell on ozone stability.

But I guess they've thrown real science down the dumper long ago. Sigh.

Thanks,
Rich

Stephen J. Rush wrote:

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:47:19 -0700, Joerg wrote:

Maybe. Power plants are supposedly evil, so practically none are built.
Nuclear is even more evil in the eyes of enviro-freaks. No wait, that's
nucular, ain't it ...?

But of course they all want their fresh cooled fromage, chilled Zin and
all that stuff.

The late John W. Campbell maintained that some of the greenies are so
ignorant of physics that they literally don't see the relation between
that ugly power plant down the road and the magic that allows them to get
ice in August and keep meat for more than a few hours without worrying
that it might become unsafe to eat. Oh, they dimly remember what they
heard in elementary-school science classes, but it just doesn't register
emotionally, any more than the mid-nineteenth-century hunters could
believe that they would ever run out of buffalo. Rudyard Kipling saw it
coming more than a century ago; look up "The Sons of Martha" at
gutenberg.org.

There are some technically literate greenies. This online book thing is
interesting:

http://www.withouthotair.com/

Chris

On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:08:13 -0500, flipper wrote:

[snip]

Rather, I think it's more that 'greenies' (and to some degree
'liberals' in general) have an almost Cinderella like, bippity boppity
boo, 'faith' that 'perfect solutions' (not my job to know how) exist
and the only real reason they aren't in place already is due to some
'conspiracy' (and the 'ignorance' of the 'duped' who don't share the
same fairy tale).

[snip]

The proper term is "Pollyanna"....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollyanna

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave

On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:45:01 -0500, flipper wrote:

[snip]

Besides, I really really wanted to use bippity boppity boo and I could
just see fairy godmother turning pumpkins into 'green' power plants


Sno-o-o-o-ort ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave

"flipper" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:08:47 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:08:13 -0500, flipper wrote:

[snip]

Rather, I think it's more that 'greenies' (and to some degree
'liberals' in general) have an almost Cinderella like, bippity boppity
boo, 'faith' that 'perfect solutions' (not my job to know how) exist
and the only real reason they aren't in place already is due to some
'conspiracy' (and the 'ignorance' of the 'duped' who don't share the
same fairy tale).

[snip]

The proper term is "Pollyanna"....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollyanna

...Jim Thompson

I thought about using that but the basic 'happy', 'friendly',
Pollyannaish character that sees good in just about everything,
including people, didn't seem to comport with the 'vast conspiracy'
outlook of most greenies/liberals and, not the only but, some of the
'un friendliest' things I've run across are greenies/liberals who
think you're not.

With Cinderella I was thinking of the Disney version with "some day
your Prince will come" (he does) as "some day your perfect solution
will come" (it will) and 'good things' appearing by 'magic' despite
the 'conspiracy' of evil step sisters.

Even so it's still infinitely more 'positive' than your, well, I'll
say 'hardcore', greenie/liberal because Cinderella doesn't have to
'fight' and 'crush' the 'vast array of evil forces permeating all
aspects of society'. Instead, 'good things' just 'naturally' happen to
'happy', friendly', people, or they transform others by simply being
happy, friendly, people, and, in that respect, both are the antithesis
of (hardcore) greenie/liberals who behave as if any diversity of
opinion is proof of 'evil' and an 'enemy' to be despised, ridiculed,
run out of town on a rail and/or 'eliminated' by whatever means.

Besides, I really really wanted to use bippity boppity boo and I could
just see fairy godmother turning pumpkins into 'green' power plants

Its the Dr Zeuss generation!

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:47:19 -0700, Joerg wrote:
Jim Thompson wrote:

How come California has such issues? Did you let the leftist weenies
ruin your state ?:-)

Yes, Jim. Everything that's not in line with the neocon dogma is the fault
of the "leftist weenies".

Careful, Jim! Better check under the bed tonight for Leftist Weenies! ;-)

Maybe. Power plants are supposedly evil, so practically none are built.
Nuclear is even more evil in the eyes of enviro-freaks. No wait, that's
nucular, ain't it ...?

http://mysite.verizon.net/richgrise/.../23ramirez.jpg

Cheers!
Rich

Jim Thompson wrote
in :

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:47:21 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

Just went through a tight electricity supply-demand squeeze again.
This graph looks like it was a real close call.

Doing our part on conservation here, 91F in the lab, soldering
away, occasionally wiping the sweat off before it drips onto the
boards.

How come California has such issues? Did you let the leftist
weenies ruin your state ?:-)

California has a whole lot more people than Arizona. (6x) for a 10%
greater area

And the grid in California was f#%ked by the right-wing capitalists
like Ken Lay when they forced deregulation on hte unsuspecting
weenies (to use your term)..

Arizona doesn't have water shortages or power problems... why does
CA?

California has a whole lot more people than Arizona.

...Jim Thompson



--
Bob Quintal

PA is y I've altered my email address.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

flipper wrote in
:

On 30 Aug 2007 00:45:12 GMT, Bob Quintal
wrote:
And the grid in California was f#%ked by the right-wing
capitalists like Ken Lay when they forced deregulation on hte
unsuspecting weenies (to use your term)..

No, the problem is the CA legislature 'called' the 'restructuring'
deregulation but didn't deregulate. Instead, they layered on a new
set of truly bizarre regulations.

That's your opinion. And it's a misinformed one.

--
Bob Quintal

PA is y I've altered my email address.




--
Bob Quintal

PA is y I've altered my email address.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Bob Quintal wrote:

flipper wrote in
:


On 30 Aug 2007 00:45:12 GMT, Bob Quintal
wrote:

And the grid in California was f#%ked by the right-wing
capitalists like Ken Lay when they forced deregulation on hte
unsuspecting weenies (to use your term)..

No, the problem is the CA legislature 'called' the 'restructuring'
deregulation but didn't deregulate. Instead, they layered on a new
set of truly bizarre regulations.


That's your opinion. And it's a misinformed one.


And, if I may ask, how do you know that?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

flipper wrote in
:

On 30 Aug 2007 23:44:17 GMT, Bob Quintal
wrote:

flipper wrote in
m:

On 30 Aug 2007 00:45:12 GMT, Bob Quintal
wrote:
And the grid in California was f#%ked by the right-wing
capitalists like Ken Lay when they forced deregulation on hte
unsuspecting weenies (to use your term)..

No, the problem is the CA legislature 'called' the
'restructuring' deregulation but didn't deregulate. Instead,
they layered on a new set of truly bizarre regulations.

That's your opinion.

Of course.

And it's a misinformed one.

On the contrary, I looked at the 'restructuring' before forming
any opinion, as opposed to you just assuming, without the
slightest shred of evidence to support the notion,. that anyone
who has a different opinion 'must' be 'misinformed'.

California's problem was exacerbated by power grid gaming but the
FERC report pointed out that the ensuing market manipulation was
only possible because of the bizarre regulatory system the
legislature created.

Whose lobbyists created that bizarre regulatory system? It was
lobbyists from the power brokers, that's who.
Why? so that they could use the loopholes they put into the
legislation in order to manipulate the market.


Just as one example, California regulations artificially capped
the price for in state production while out of state production
was not, thereby creating a forced "two prices for the exact same
product." Guess what that leads to.

It leads to utility companies making a mint by buying cheap and
selling high.




--
Bob Quintal

PA is y I've altered my email address.




--
Bob Quintal

PA is y I've altered my email address.




--
Bob Quintal

PA is y I've altered my email address.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"Bob Quintal" wrote in message


Whose lobbyists created that bizarre regulatory system? It was
lobbyists from the power brokers, that's who.
Why? so that they could use the loopholes they put into the
legislation in order to manipulate the market.

All I ever heard from the left in those days was that it was the fault of
"deregulation". It's about time everyone realizes it was a "regulatory
system", and not a free market, that was responsible. At least a majority
of Californians knew enough to get rid of Davis.


--

Reply in group, but if emailing add another
zero, and remove the last word.

flipper posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic:

On 31 Aug 2007 21:38:51 GMT, Bob Quintal
wrote:

flipper wrote in
m:

On 30 Aug 2007 23:44:17 GMT, Bob Quintal
wrote:

flipper wrote in
m:

On 30 Aug 2007 00:45:12 GMT, Bob Quintal
wrote:
And the grid in California was f#%ked by the right-wing
capitalists like Ken Lay when they forced deregulation on hte
unsuspecting weenies (to use your term)..

No, the problem is the CA legislature 'called' the
'restructuring' deregulation but didn't deregulate. Instead,
they layered on a new set of truly bizarre regulations.

That's your opinion.

Of course.

And it's a misinformed one.

On the contrary, I looked at the 'restructuring' before forming
any opinion, as opposed to you just assuming, without the
slightest shred of evidence to support the notion,. that anyone
who has a different opinion 'must' be 'misinformed'.

California's problem was exacerbated by power grid gaming but the
FERC report pointed out that the ensuing market manipulation was
only possible because of the bizarre regulatory system the
legislature created.

Whose lobbyists created that bizarre regulatory system?

No one's. Lobbyists 'lobbied' and it was your legislature that
decided whether to listen or not and which, if any,
'recommendations' to accept or reject.

It was
lobbyists from the power brokers, that's who.
Why? so that they could use the loopholes they put into the
legislation in order to manipulate the market.

That's certainly one of the standard Chatty Cathy pull string doll
prerecorded 'conspiracy' messages and a canned bugaboo sure solves
the problem of having to think about it... but solves nothing else.

Btw, those 'nasty and evil' industry experts warned California from
day 1 that the legislation was a recipe for power outages and price
gouging, but no one listened.


Just as one example, California regulations artificially capped
the price for in state production while out of state production
was not, thereby creating a forced "two prices for the exact same
product." Guess what that leads to.

It leads to utility companies making a mint by buying cheap and
selling high.

One could almost write a book about just that one sentence.

For one, 'buy low and sell high' is the natural order of things and
who would bother expending their time and energy to start a company,
run a company, or work for a company if there were no profit in it?
Don't you expect to be paid for your work?

Are you using 'utilities' as some general term for 'power industry',
or what? Because one of the problems was the regulations requiring
"utilities" to purchase on the high price spot market, prohibiting
them from lower cost long term contracts, and then requiring them to
'sell low' at regulated rates. Exactly the opposite of your "buying
cheap and selling high." And, as I alluded to in the above "natural
order of things," that resulted in them going bankrupt.

But that was only one of the problems and not related to the one I
brought up. No, when your force, by regulation, a lower in state
price than the open market you de-incentivize the construction of in
state power generation because who in their right mind is going to
build new power plants where they lose money instead of where they
can make a profit?

It also creates an artificial environment that not only enables but
begs abuse that wouldn't be possible without it.

--
Bob Quintal

PA is y I've altered my email address.




--
Bob Quintal

PA is y I've altered my email address.




--
Bob Quintal

PA is y I've altered my email address.

Study your history a bit more carefully, The legislation was written
essentially as PG&E an SC&E recommend. Guess who they were behodin'
to.

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:47:21 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

Just went through a tight electricity supply-demand squeeze again. This
graph looks like it was a real close call.

Doing our part on conservation here, 91F in the lab, soldering away,
occasionally wiping the sweat off before it drips onto the boards.

How close does the "Available Resources Forecast" come to real resources?

--

Boris Mohar



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 21:17:04 -0400, Boris Mohar
wrote:

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:47:21 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

Just went through a tight electricity supply-demand squeeze again. This
graph looks like it was a real close call.

Doing our part on conservation here, 91F in the lab, soldering away,
occasionally wiping the sweat off before it drips onto the boards.

How close does the "Available Resources Forecast" come to real resources?

--

Boris Mohar

Enough that they will start rolling blackouts. It happened a few years
ago. Areas would get a loss of power for about 1 hour. At any given
time, close to a quarter to a half of California's generation capacity
is off-line for maintenance and other reasons. Plus, bad policies in
Sacramento and stupid voters (deregulation) haven't helped.

Shock of all shocks, we got rain, thunder and lightning in So. Cal
last night. That's extremely rare!

---
Mark

On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:31:48 GMT, qrk wrote:

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 21:17:04 -0400, Boris Mohar
wrote:

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:47:21 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

Just went through a tight electricity supply-demand squeeze again. This
graph looks like it was a real close call.

Doing our part on conservation here, 91F in the lab, soldering away,
occasionally wiping the sweat off before it drips onto the boards.

How close does the "Available Resources Forecast" come to real resources?

--

Boris Mohar

Enough that they will start rolling blackouts. It happened a few years
ago. Areas would get a loss of power for about 1 hour. At any given
time, close to a quarter to a half of California's generation capacity
is off-line for maintenance and other reasons.

Looks like Joerg's graph shows just that. Note the "step-down" from
52,000 to 45,000 at the beginning of the graph.

Plus, bad policies in
Sacramento and stupid voters (deregulation) haven't helped.

And greenies against everything... no fossil fuel powered stations...
and nuclear is BAD... just cause ;-)


Shock of all shocks, we got rain, thunder and lightning in So. Cal
last night. That's extremely rare!

---
Mark

Last night WAS strange... we had lots of lightning and thunder here,
but NO rain.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:31:48 GMT, qrk wrote:


On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 21:17:04 -0400, Boris Mohar
wrote:


On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:47:21 -0700, Joerg
wrote:


Just went through a tight electricity supply-demand squeeze again. This
graph looks like it was a real close call.

Doing our part on conservation here, 91F in the lab, soldering away,
occasionally wiping the sweat off before it drips onto the boards.

How close does the "Available Resources Forecast" come to real resources?

--

Boris Mohar


Enough that they will start rolling blackouts. It happened a few years
ago. Areas would get a loss of power for about 1 hour. At any given
time, close to a quarter to a half of California's generation capacity
is off-line for maintenance and other reasons.


Looks like Joerg's graph shows just that. Note the "step-down" from
52,000 to 45,000 at the beginning of the graph.


Then there is the effect of "Oh, it's hot here in the other state as
well so we'll need this chunk of power ourselves now".

Yesterday it looked like we really came close. Less than 200MW reserves
and that is razor thin when you look at the total. Part of Modesto had a
blackout for other reasons. I guess without that we would have seen the
lights go out in other places.


Plus, bad policies in
Sacramento and stupid voters (deregulation) haven't helped.


One problem in the beginning of this "energy market scheme" was the reg
not to be able to enter into long term hedge contracts.


And greenies against everything... no fossil fuel powered stations...
and nuclear is BAD... just cause ;-)


But they want electric cars. Ha! That would be utter disaster for CA
right now.

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

"Joerg" wrote in message
t...
Just went through a tight electricity supply-demand squeeze again. This
graph looks like it was a real close call.

Doing our part on conservation here, 91F in the lab, soldering away,
occasionally wiping the sweat off before it drips onto the boards.


wow thats over 3.21 gigawatts

Colin =^.^=