Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
Reply |
|
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#41
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Solar Powered Garage Door Opener.
On 2017-03-20, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message ... [ ... ] Better to go to memory-mapped devices for I/O if you can. The 8080 and all its decendants have a separate I/O address space for the physical hardware registers, which QBasic can directly read and write. http://stanislavs.org/helppc/bios_data_area.html I think that I was talking about the TMS-9900 you mentioned. It had really weird I/O by default. If you needed faster I/O, such as for an 8" floppy drive, memory-mapped was far better, ignoring the built-in I/O instructions. For the Altair 8K BASIC for the 680b, there were poke and peek instructions to access raw memory. (Of course, there was no OS under the BASIC. :-) For instance address 40:08 normally holds a pointer to 03F8, the LPT1 port data bit register. The next addresses are the control bit outputs and the status bit inputs. The 8080 family at least had 8-bit wide I/O instructions. The TMS-9900, while you could ask for input or output (from a special address bus) of up to 16 bits wide, it required a separate memory cycle for each bit. That's how the parallel port can drive custom external hardware, but it works well without OS interference only in DOS. Still, an LCD screen and keyboard, a GHz CPU and files on a hard drive is waaay beyond an Arduino. Of course. COM1 and COM2 are similarly accessible at bit-banging level. Plug in a serial-interfaced DVM and your program can measure voltage. 40:17 and 40:18 show the current up or pressed state of the non-printing control keys. I checked them when my programs asked the user to "press any key" and flashed the screen alarmingly when some joker pressed Shift. What about if the joker decided to spell out "any". :-) The Mac was difficult because plug-ins are supposed to have a driver in ROM at the top of the slot's address block, written by an Apple Certified Programmer. When I gave him the simple register model for my 16 bit A/D converter he quoted 3 months to write it. Instead I left the card invisible and generated four lines of 68000 machine language in LabVIEW to select a MUX channel and read the data when ready. Labview was long after the 8080 machines. :-) Was this after the time the Mac moved to full 32-bit code? I seem to remember stories of programmers (against the rules) using the upper 8 bits of addresses as data/flag storage, which caused serious problems when the full 32-bit addressing was enabled. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NuBus "In order to select the proper device driver, NuBus included an ID scheme that allowed the cards to identify themselves to the host computer during startup." "On the downside, while this flexibility made NuBus much simpler for the user and device driver authors, it made things more difficult for the designers of the cards themselves." I think that NuBus was after the move from MC68000 to MC68020, which allowed full 32-bit addressing. Unless we dodged the rules, of course. That may have been why they couldn't just buy a NuBus A/D converter card from National Instruments. I wasn't otherwise involved in the project, a 6-port microwave network analyzer. O.K. National Instruments is about as close-mouthed about some things as Apple was about some things in the Mac -- before OS-X. The 16 bit A/D worked surprisingly well inside the noisy Mac II chassis. The least significant bit bounced a little, that's all. I ran the bus power through high quality Analog Devices DC-DC converters to quiet it. I tried testing its dynamic response as an audio spectrum analyzer but only found that the Mac sucks eggs as a real-time data acquisition system. I had much better luck later generating accurate timing on a PC running DOS. :-) Which OS for the Macs? Their fully proprietary one, or OS-X, which is at least unix-based. Not that I would expect either to be particularly good at real-time I/O. :-) But in the days before that, at the Army R&D lab where I worked, you could not purchase anything called a "computer" for use in the lab. (The exception was the one IBM 370.) So, to get a computer, you had to call it something like "an instrument controller". :-) Add LabVIEW and a GPIB card and that's exactly what it is. Bub -- before those were available, it was easier to get an HP desktop machine and call it an instrument controller. And it would have built in the HPIB (before the name got changed to GPIB or IEEE-488. :-) For that matter -- I have a couple of examples of Tektronix 6130 systems with built-in GPIB, and as an OS a Tek modified version of BSD 4.2. My task at Unitrode was to turn any customer's lab computer into an "instrument controller" to run application boards for new ICs without modifying it. We did it with an I2C bus adapter that plugged into the printer port and a floppy or flash drive that boots DOS. I bought Visual Basic and then discovered it won't talk to the I/O address space. Hmm flash drives came around a bit later, too. Enjoy, DoN. -- Remove oil spill source from e-mail Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#42
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Solar Powered Garage Door Opener.
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
... On 2017-03-20, Jim Wilkins wrote: "DoN. Nichols" wrote in message ... [ ... ] 40:17 and 40:18 show the current up or pressed state of the non-printing control keys. I checked them when my programs asked the user to "press any key" and flashed the screen alarmingly when some joker pressed Shift. What about if the joker decided to spell out "any". :-) Another tech checked my programs for user friendliness and pointed out the possible misinterpretations I was too familiar with the program to notice. If the engineer pushed the keyboard back on the crowded lab bench to make room to write notes they might only be able to reach the bottom rows, so I made Ctrl, Alt and Shift useable as Any Key to step through the program. The arrow keys navigated through the display of binary registers and Space toggled the highlighted bit. They still had to reach Enter to load the registers into the target device. Since they didn't make measurements while changing the program setup they could pull the keyboard forward and use all the keys, for instance to save the current settings in a *.ini file. ................ Which OS for the Macs? Their fully proprietary one, or OS-X, which is at least unix-based. Not that I would expect either to be particularly good at real-time I/O. :-) That was the early 90's so AFAIK the "Classic" Mac OS. All that mattered to me was that the engineer was satisfied with my efforts to design and build what they couldn't buy. There were many opportunities in the broad gap between Ph.Ds and lab techs if I could demonstrate that I could handle them. DOS was fine in real time before SpeedStep, as long as I could accomplish everything after a clock tick and then wait for the next one. The gap is about 55 mS, the interrupt service 20 uS. After fussing with my 900 KHz homebrew it was amazing to watch a FOR loop execute at 2 nS per pass. But in the days before that, at the Army R&D lab where I worked, you could not purchase anything called a "computer" for use in the lab. (The exception was the one IBM 370.) So, to get a computer, you had to call it something like "an instrument controller". :-) Add LabVIEW and a GPIB card and that's exactly what it is. Bub -- before those were available, it was easier to get an HP desktop machine and call it an instrument controller. And it would have built in the HPIB (before the name got changed to GPIB or IEEE-488. :-) For that matter -- I have a couple of examples of Tektronix 6130 systems with built-in GPIB, and as an OS a Tek modified version of BSD 4.2. My experience with the 8080 was enough to quickly solve problems by programming the PC-AT and an HP 1000 in Assembly. When I came up with an out-of-the-box way to solve a sticky problem I only got to implement the simple ones, otherwise an engineer would do it and take credit. What counted was that they included me in the next new product team and gave me some design work. -jsw |
#43
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Solar Powered Garage Door Opener.
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
... On 2017-03-20, Jim Wilkins wrote: 40:17 and 40:18 show the current up or pressed state of the non-printing control keys. I checked them when my programs asked the user to "press any key" and flashed the screen alarmingly when some joker pressed Shift. What about if the joker decided to spell out "any". :-) Each key press would be parsed immediately as a command or operand. I wrote a replacement key input function that didn't wait for Enter. It returned one 1-or-2-byte character from the keyboard buffer or 0 if it was empty and let the main program loop continue, thus it could detect Escape or any other key including F1-12, and the program could also check other inputs and read in commands stored in a macro file and still exit if the user hit ESC. It worked pretty well for a hardware control progam with few real-time commands where the keyboard wasn't in a good typing position. -jsw. |
#44
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Really no longer ( Solar Powered Garage Door Opener.)
On 2017-03-21, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message ... On 2017-03-20, Jim Wilkins wrote: "DoN. Nichols" wrote in message ... [ ... ] 40:17 and 40:18 show the current up or pressed state of the non-printing control keys. I checked them when my programs asked the user to "press any key" and flashed the screen alarmingly when some joker pressed Shift. What about if the joker decided to spell out "any". :-) Another tech checked my programs for user friendliness and pointed out the possible misinterpretations I was too familiar with the program to notice. O.K. That is alwasy a potential problem. If the engineer pushed the keyboard back on the crowded lab bench to make room to write notes they might only be able to reach the bottom rows, so I made Ctrl, Alt and Shift useable as Any Key to step through the program. The arrow keys navigated through the display of binary registers and Space toggled the highlighted bit. They still had to reach Enter to load the registers into the target device. Good enough. Since they didn't make measurements while changing the program setup they could pull the keyboard forward and use all the keys, for instance to save the current settings in a *.ini file. O.K. An under-workbench-top pull-out keyboard shelf could help, too. ................ Which OS for the Macs? Their fully proprietary one, or OS-X, which is at least unix-based. Not that I would expect either to be particularly good at real-time I/O. :-) That was the early 90's so AFAIK the "Classic" Mac OS. All that mattered to me was that the engineer was satisfied with my efforts to design and build what they couldn't buy. There were many opportunities in the broad gap between Ph.Ds and lab techs if I could demonstrate that I could handle them. Yep. I've never used the "Classic" Mac OS, but pretty much any unix (unless it has a real-time package under it) is not good for high rep-rate interrput service. (For CNC controllers, one option with a unix-alike is a linux with a special real-time modification. DOS was fine in real time before SpeedStep, as long as I could accomplish everything after a clock tick and then wait for the next one. The gap is about 55 mS, the interrupt service 20 uS. After fussing with my 900 KHz homebrew it was amazing to watch a FOR loop execute at 2 nS per pass. I've never encounterd SpeedStep. Which DOS did it first appear in? [ ... ] call it something like "an instrument controller". :-) Add LabVIEW and a GPIB card and that's exactly what it is. Bub -- before those were available, it was easier to get an HP Sorry -- that should have been "But" not "Bub". Spelling checker considered it valid, so it did not call my attention to it. Not a word I normally use. desktop machine and call it an instrument controller. And it would have built in the HPIB (before the name got changed to GPIB or IEEE-488. :-) For that matter -- I have a couple of examples of Tektronix 6130 systems with built-in GPIB, and as an OS a Tek modified version of BSD 4.2. My experience with the 8080 was enough to quickly solve problems by programming the PC-AT and an HP 1000 in Assembly. When I came up with an out-of-the-box way to solve a sticky problem I only got to implement the simple ones, otherwise an engineer would do it and take credit. What counted was that they included me in the next new product team and gave me some design work. That works. Enjoy, DoN. -- Remove oil spill source from e-mail Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#45
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Also no lonber ( Solar Powered Garage Door Opener.)
On 2017-03-21, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message ... On 2017-03-20, Jim Wilkins wrote: 40:17 and 40:18 show the current up or pressed state of the non-printing control keys. I checked them when my programs asked the user to "press any key" and flashed the screen alarmingly when some joker pressed Shift. What about if the joker decided to spell out "any". :-) Each key press would be parsed immediately as a command or operand. O.K. No option for that, then. I wrote a replacement key input function that didn't wait for Enter. It returned one 1-or-2-byte character from the keyboard buffer or 0 if it was empty and let the main program loop continue, thus it could detect Escape or any other key including F1-12, and the program could also check other inputs and read in commands stored in a macro file and still exit if the user hit ESC. It worked pretty well for a hardware control progam with few real-time commands where the keyboard wasn't in a good typing position. -jsw. And on a lab bench, that is a common situation. Enjoy, DoN. -- Remove oil spill source from e-mail Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#46
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Really no longer ( Solar Powered Garage Door Opener.)
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
... On 2017-03-21, Jim Wilkins wrote: "DoN. Nichols" wrote in message ... On 2017-03-20, Jim Wilkins wrote: "DoN. Nichols" wrote in message ... [ ... ] O.K. An under-workbench-top pull-out keyboard shelf could help, too. That's what I have here, with a coffeeproof "medical" keyboard the same width as a laptop's to leave room for the mouse pad, and a small light under the desk to illuminate it without needing much room light, as the keyboard's backlight is ineffective. I normally have two laptops on the static mat and the speakers, 19" and 22" monitors that extend the laptop screens on the shelf above. The woofer is on a shelf underneath. The remote temperature displays for my woodstove and the food cooking on it are above the monitors. I get a lot of use from this small space. I modified a reclining office chair by replacing the arms with angle plates that raise the back to be a headrest and let it roll out of the way under the keyboard. ................ DOS was fine in real time before SpeedStep, ... I've never encounterd SpeedStep. Which DOS did it first appear in? http://www.overclock.net/t/376099/sp...n-i-told-it-to [ ... ] Add LabVIEW and a GPIB card and that's exactly what it is. Bub -- before those were available, it was easier to get an HP Sorry -- that should have been "But" not "Bub". Spelling checker considered it valid, so it did not call my attention to it. Not a word I normally use. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bubbala -jsw |
#47
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Really no longer ( Solar Powered Garage Door Opener.)
On 2017-03-22, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message ... On 2017-03-21, Jim Wilkins wrote: "DoN. Nichols" wrote in message ... On 2017-03-20, Jim Wilkins wrote: "DoN. Nichols" wrote in message ... [ ... ] O.K. An under-workbench-top pull-out keyboard shelf could help, too. That's what I have here, with a coffeeproof "medical" keyboard the same width as a laptop's to leave room for the mouse pad, and a small light under the desk to illuminate it without needing much room light, as the keyboard's backlight is ineffective. O.K. I have one of those keyboards from a hamfest, after seeing them in the emergency room, but at least the one which I have appears to require varying (sometimes excessive) pressures for different keys. (Also, I really like Sun keyboards, which offer extra keys which the OS (Solaris 10) uses well. For Linux and most other OSes, the extra keys are pretty much useless. :-) No need for coffeeprofing -- but at one period, Coca-Cola-proofing would have been a help. :-) (At least that washes out fairly well, and draining the keyboard afterwards and letting it dry for a couple of days. The old TI Silent-700 keyboard actually survived a dose of squirrel urine with a similar washing and drying. :-) I normally have two laptops on the static mat and the speakers, 19" and 22" monitors that extend the laptop screens on the shelf above. The woofer is on a shelf underneath. The remote temperature displays for my woodstove and the food cooking on it are above the monitors. I get a lot of use from this small space. O.K. I don't normally use speakers on the computers -- good quality headphones when I care about the sound -- and not interfere with what my wife is listening to. I modified a reclining office chair by replacing the arms with angle plates that raise the back to be a headrest and let it roll out of the way under the keyboard. Sounds like an interesting modification. DOS was fine in real time before SpeedStep, ... I've never encountered SpeedStep. Which DOS did it first appear in? http://www.overclock.net/t/376099/sp...n-i-told-it-to Interesting. At least that suggests that it can be disabled. Since I doubt that it would recognize something not written or blessed by Microsoft to tune the CPU speed. :-) [ ... ] Add LabVIEW and a GPIB card and that's exactly what it is. Bub -- before those were available, it was easier to get an HP Sorry -- that should have been "But" not "Bub". Spelling checker considered it valid, so it did not call my attention to it. Not a word I normally use. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bubbala I'm familiar with it in various flavors -- I just normally don't *use* it, and certainly would not have typed it there intentionally. I wonder how many cycles of exchanges are left before my system starts objecting to the length of the "References: " header, and I have to manually trim it? :-) Enjoy, DoN. -- Remove oil spill source from e-mail Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#48
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Really no longer ( Solar Powered Garage Door Opener.)
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
... On 2017-03-22, Jim Wilkins wrote: "DoN. Nichols" wrote in message ... On 2017-03-21, Jim Wilkins wrote: "DoN. Nichols" wrote in message ... On 2017-03-20, Jim Wilkins wrote: "DoN. Nichols" wrote in message ... [ ... ] That's what I have here, with a coffeeproof "medical" keyboard ... O.K. I have one of those keyboards from a hamfest, after seeing them in the emergency room, but at least the one which I have appears to require varying (sometimes excessive) pressures for different keys. I didn't recommend this overpriced, unimpressive one. The cheap flexible ones I tried soon failed. O.K. I don't normally use speakers on the computers -- good quality headphones when I care about the sound -- and not interfere with what my wife is listening to. The speakers are for musical TV programs, mostly on PBS though music is sneaking into other shows, most recently The Flash. I knew Melissa Benoist (Supergirl) could sing but not Victor Garber or John Barrowman. I use old laptops running Win 7 Media Center as battery-powered portable TVs that can record. http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_dualhd.html https://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.p...e_WinTV-dualHD Lack of hardware drivers is what has kept me from *nix. I boot a Debian CD for rwx access to hidden Dell partitions. I wonder how many cycles of exchanges are left before my system starts objecting to the length of the "References: " header, and I have to manually trim it? :-) That problem hits mine too. When I was on a Mac at Mitre I could edit the headers, a useful skill in the combative arguments in rec.arts.sf.tv. I quit when the shows' writers complained that posting a plot idea prevented them from using it. -jsw |
#49
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Really no longer ( Solar Powered Garage Door Opener.)
On 2017-03-23, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message ... On 2017-03-22, Jim Wilkins wrote: [ ... ] That's what I have here, with a coffeeproof "medical" keyboard ... O.K. I have one of those keyboards from a hamfest, after seeing them in the emergency room, but at least the one which I have appears to require varying (sometimes excessive) pressures for different keys. I didn't recommend this overpriced, unimpressive one. The cheap flexible ones I tried soon failed. This one is labeled on the back "Really Cool Keyboard" and "MMI". I let it sit for a couple of years, and just re-tried it. The keys which require excessive pressure are "ert" and "asdf" -- a fairly small zone, and I think that something had applied too much pressure to it in storage or something of the sort.j While there is a flexible membrane all around it, the base is rather rigid, so I don't know whether it is what you were talking about. It is sufficient to serve in my machine shop, to talk to the CNC controller at need, and resist splashes of coolant and oil, but not for general purpose typing. And for general purpose use, it does not have the extra keys that the Sun keyboards have, and the Sun OS works better with. O.K. I don't normally use speakers on the computers -- good quality headphones when I care about the sound -- and not interfere with what my wife is listening to. The speakers are for musical TV programs, mostly on PBS though music is sneaking into other shows, most recently The Flash. I knew Melissa Benoist (Supergirl) could sing but not Victor Garber or John Barrowman. I use old laptops running Win 7 Media Center as battery-powered portable TVs that can record. http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_dualhd.html https://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.p...e_WinTV-dualHD Lack of hardware drivers is what has kept me from *nix. I boot a Debian CD for rwx access to hidden Dell partitions. O.K. I don't get TV through the computers, and don't spend much time looking at it anyway. :-) I wonder how many cycles of exchanges are left before my system starts objecting to the length of the "References: " header, and I have to manually trim it? :-) That problem hits mine too. When I was on a Mac at Mitre I could edit the headers, a useful skill in the combative arguments in rec.arts.sf.tv. I quit when the shows' writers complained that posting a plot idea prevented them from using it. It was up to 924 characters for a single line, so I just truncated it preemptively. I use slrn for my newsreader (on Sun's Solaris) so it offers a bit more flexibility than most newsreaders on Windows systems. Enjoy, DoN. -- Remove oil spill source from e-mail Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#50
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Solar Powered Garage Door Opener.
On Sunday, March 19, 2017 at 8:46:39 PM UTC-7, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message ... On 2017-03-19, Jim Wilkins wrote: The Mac was difficult because plug-ins are supposed to have a driver in ROM at the top of the slot's address block, written by an Apple Certified Programmer. When I gave him the simple register model for my 16 bit A/D converter he quoted 3 months to write it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NuBus "In order to select the proper device driver, NuBus included an ID scheme that allowed the cards to identify themselves to the host computer during startup." "On the downside, while this flexibility made NuBus much simpler for the user and device driver authors, it made things more difficult for the designers of the cards themselves." The benefit, was that you could put as many video cards or whatnot as you wanted, in any slot, without worrying about allocation of the interrupts or addresses, and they could work at boot without any driver install. Every bus slot had unique addresses for that ROM, there were never collisions. There was lots of cheating, though: when OS 7.5 was licensed across non-Apple computers, the licensees used to have problems: the boot ROMs they were authorized to copy, were only tested on the Apple product, and didn't fully support machines with more bus slots (since Apple made a 3-slot machine, some cards were only recognized in the first three slots of a 6-slot clone). |
#51
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Solar Powered Garage Door Opener.
"whit3rd" wrote in message
... On Sunday, March 19, 2017 at 8:46:39 PM UTC-7, Jim Wilkins wrote: "DoN. Nichols" wrote in message ... On 2017-03-19, Jim Wilkins wrote: The Mac was difficult because plug-ins are supposed to have a driver in ROM at the top of the slot's address block, written by an Apple Certified Programmer. When I gave him the simple register model for my 16 bit A/D converter he quoted 3 months to write it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NuBus "In order to select the proper device driver, NuBus included an ID scheme that allowed the cards to identify themselves to the host computer during startup." "On the downside, while this flexibility made NuBus much simpler for the user and device driver authors, it made things more difficult for the designers of the cards themselves." The benefit, was that you could put as many video cards or whatnot as you wanted, in any slot, without worrying about allocation of the interrupts or addresses, and they could work at boot without any driver install. Every bus slot had unique addresses for that ROM, there were never collisions. There was lots of cheating, though: when OS 7.5 was licensed across non-Apple computers, the licensees used to have problems: the boot ROMs they were authorized to copy, were only tested on the Apple product, and didn't fully support machines with more bus slots (since Apple made a 3-slot machine, some cards were only recognized in the first three slots of a 6-slot clone). The high order address of the slot I used was hard-wired to hex C. IIRC the ID and driver was stored backwards in ROM so that it always began at CFFF... and could be any length. The engineers must have known about the Apple Certified Programmer requirement before they dumped the project on me, a newly hired and unproven lab tech. The next big project they gave me couldn't be done "right" within the specs and constraints. I solved it the Earl Muntz way, which no respectable engineer would admit to but a lab tech could get away with by hand-selecting parts on each board. -jsw |
#52
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Solar Powered Garage Door Opener.
On 14 Mar 2017 04:03:19 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote: On 2017-03-13, Larry Jaques wrote: On Sun, 12 Mar 2017 10:30:01 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" wrote: "Steve W." wrote in message news David R. Birch wrote: [ ... ] Has anyone here done this or have more info? Since solar runs 12-48vdc battery systems and garage openers run at 120vac, it would have to be run on an inverter. I've never seen a dedicated system for a garage door. With a bit of re-design, it could be run with a 12V or 24V DC motor, and a regulator to provide the desired voltage for the electronics. Major redesign, different motor, etc., but doable with patience and deeper pockets, I guess. [ ... ] Solar panel voltage and load current are useful to check during setup but I don't think they are worth the cost of dedicated meters unless you have problems or keep tinkering with it. An ammeter in the load cable will affect the low voltage cutoff. By what, 0.3v (a diode drop), Jim? Will a shunted ammeter also cause troubles like this? What's your depth of discharge, anyway? Sounds too deep. Most older shunted ammeters have a 50 mV movement and a shunt to assure that at the maximum current, the output is 50 mV -- a lot less than a diode drop. My system uses non-gendered Anderson Powerpoles to connect the components and a meter like this can be temporarily inserted to measure voltage and current. Wish I had the good luck you guys seem to with those, but the lone pair I've used has been trouble 2 out of 3 times I've used it. If you have the right crimper for the wire you are using (and there are various sized pins to match, all of which fit the same blocks), they can be very good. The one trouble which I was fighting in the power input to a 2-meter transceiver was eventually traced to an intermittent fuse in an inline holder just upstream of the PowerPole connector. Soldering the pins is bad news, however. It makes them rotate at strange angles in the block and makes for intermittent connections. I'll remove mine from the shell and see if I can get them to stay in place better. But the thief who stole my BOB also took my remote for the winch, which was in the ashtray. Gotta call HFT for one soon. [ ... ] The Amp-Hours total is useful on solar systems. It will preserve the reading if you add a 9V battery to keep it powered through the JST connector (from an RC hobby store.) Watt-Hours is less useful because the battery discharges at a lower voltage than it charges. Huh? 'Taint a 9v connector. There is a tiny 3-pin connector lurking beside the input power cable. (This on my "Turnigy" brand metering module) which says that it accepts between 4.8 V and 60 V And it is rated to measure current up to 130 A. It constantly displays instantaneous current and voltage, and a smaller part of the display cycles through a number of readings, including A-H, peak amps, and several others. The label on mine says "peacefair" and it has no such terminal, nor do the blue metal jobs. [ ... ] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge If you are accustomed to 120V wiring the relatively higher resistance loss at 12V is surprising. 25' of 14 AWG wire pair drops 1.25V at 10A. In other words you may want the battery very close to the AC inverter. Yeah, 6' or less, please. Unless you have serious wire available. How much 4-0 wire would it take to produce the same drop? :-) The inverters all say to use heavy wire and limit to 10' or less, even with 4/0ga. Specs are shown at 3', 6', and 10' on my 2kw HF inverter. The 120V wiring to the motor in the center of the ceiling could be longer and the wiring to the solar panel controller long enough to put it within reach on the wall. An external port like a weatherproof trailer connector would let you charge a dead battery to open the door. I'll be running 4ga for the 900W heater element @ 35'. Better -- but if you really want to minimize drop go for 4-0 wire. :-) The 4ga was $86 and the 4/0 was $355, thanks. -- The more you know, the less you need. -- Aboriginal Saying |
#53
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Solar Powered Garage Door Opener.
On Sat, 11 Mar 2017 23:30:46 -0500, "Steve W."
wrote: David R. Birch wrote: I've been think about installing this in my garage which has no electricity running to it. I've googled "Solar Powered Garage Door Opener" and only found general talk, no one who's actually done it and no company that makes one. Has anyone here done this or have more info? David Shouldn't be that hard. Solar panels to battery bank. Inverter off battery bank. Just make sure the inverter can handle the load. That's a jerry-rig solution that would require the solar panels to supply enough power to run the inverter and its losses as well as the garage door opener's receiver losses 24 hours a day. The constant cycling of the batteries (whether the door is used or not) will quickly wear out the batteries and the system will fail totally after a few cloudy days. Since I'm an engineer, I'd do an engineered solution. I'd start out with the motor. The 60hz motor is jettisoned and a brushless DC motor is substituted. A suitable motor would be a large Radio Controlled model truck or car motor. An RC controller would also be a good choice to drive the motor. The RC controller requires an AC signal input whose duty cycle is varied to vary the speed. That signal is easily generated by {single board computer (SBC) of your choice}. Most folks will reflexively spurt "Arduino". I very much dislike the board because of the software development environment. I'd use a TI RocketBoard. Cheaper, much more capable and the development environment is very nice. Also connected to the SBC is a 433 MHz remote control receiver that listens for the output of a matching key fob. And of course the various safeties. Operation would be as follows. In the idle state the motor controller is powered down via a relay. The SBC is in "doze" mode where it sleeps most of the time but wakes up to check the remote control receiver a few times a second. When it receives a signal, the board wakes up, closes the relay to power the motor controller and accelerates the door at a rate calculated to put low strain on the door while achieving maximum speed. This is in sharp contrast to a standard opener which snaps the motor on which accelerates up to full speed practically instantly and literally yanks the door open. The gearing has to be low enough that the door isn't damaged by the yank. The result is very slow opening. This system would accelerate the door to a predetermined point where it would decelerate the door to a stop. Opening and closing could be done in a few seconds. And if a safety is tripped, the controller can stop the motor literally within a revolution or two. High stress on the door but better than having the 60 Hz motor coast down. The receiver draws a few microamps at (usually) 5 volts. The SBC draws similarly low power in doze mode. Thus the system could survive very long periods of no sunlight. Lead-acid batteries would work just fine, though I might visit the salvage yard and get some lithium ion batteries out of a wrecked electric car or Prius just to be high tech. Given that this is a mechanical group, the electronics and programming may be a bit much. What I suggest is going to sci.electronics.design and pitching this project as a nice open source senior EE project. It would make a great senior project (probably done for free) that some student would jump on. And as an open source project, others could easily duplicate it since all the hard work has been done. I did a somewhat similar project about 40 years ago. Then I used a 90 VDC servo motor and a designed-from-scratch analog computer for motion control. No need for solar power nor economizing on power usage. I just wanted to do a motion control project and the garage door seemed like a likely candidate. Worked great and startled the neighbors, both desired goals :-) John John DeArmond http://www.neon-john.com http://www.tnduction.com Tellico Plains, Occupied TN See website for email address |
#54
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Solar Powered Garage Door Opener.
On 3/11/2017 1:44 PM, David R. Birch wrote:
I've been think about installing this in my garage which has no electricity running to it. I've googled "Solar Powered Garage Door Opener" and only found general talk, no one who's actually done it and no company that makes one. Has anyone here done this or have more info? David Amazing # of answers that don't address my question. From what I can find, many garage door openers use 12v or 24v motors with a step down transformer. Bypassing that transformer seems the way to go. Much talk about how to construct a system that I've seen elsewhere, nothing from any who have actually done it. I don't see any reason why the concept is flawed, so why isn't there a complete system on the market already? Maybe this is my road to vast wealth? OTOH, considering what I've paid for these gems of wisdom, what did I expect? :^) David --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com |
#55
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Solar Powered Garage Door Opener.
"David R. Birch" wrote in message
news On 3/11/2017 1:44 PM, David R. Birch wrote: I've been think about installing this in my garage which has no electricity running to it. I've googled "Solar Powered Garage Door Opener" and only found general talk, no one who's actually done it and no company that makes one. Has anyone here done this or have more info? David Amazing # of answers that don't address my question. From what I can find, many garage door openers use 12v or 24v motors with a step down transformer. Bypassing that transformer seems the way to go. Much talk about how to construct a system that I've seen elsewhere, nothing from any who have actually done it. I don't see any reason why the concept is flawed, so why isn't there a complete system on the market already? Maybe this is my road to vast wealth? OTOH, considering what I've paid for these gems of wisdom, what did I expect? :^) David Try searching for backup batteries for commercial 12V door openers, you'll see who makes suitable candidates. -jsw |
#56
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Solar Powered Garage Door Opener.
On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 10:39:22 -0500, "David R. Birch"
wrote: On 3/11/2017 1:44 PM, David R. Birch wrote: I've been think about installing this in my garage which has no electricity running to it. I've googled "Solar Powered Garage Door Opener" and only found general talk, no one who's actually done it and no company that makes one. Has anyone here done this or have more info? David Amazing # of answers that don't address my question. And yet, nobody offered a way to convert a solar gate opener, or suggested you change your door to suit one of those. Not enough retired guys looking to share their thoughts I guess. From what I can find, many garage door openers use 12v or 24v motors with a step down transformer. Bypassing that transformer seems the way to go. A small inverter can do the job, which is easier than reinventing the wheel. You'll need a PV module, charge controller and battery either way. Those things will be cheaper to buy separately than built into a niche product. Much talk about how to construct a system that I've seen elsewhere, nothing from any who have actually done it. I described my own backup system, which is something I've done and which works. It is charged with grid power. Substitute solar, bypass the parasite safety circuit energy waste and Bob's your Uncle. I don't see any reason why the concept is flawed, so why isn't there a complete system on the market already? Most people who need a solar powered garage door opener need other things powered by solar as well. So they build a system that powers everything, and there is tons of that stuff on the mass market. People who need a garage door opener *only* usually find that running a wire from the house is cheaper and better, and saves them needing to bypass the safety circuit or making the solar system larger. http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/...ers-are-always Maybe this is my road to vast wealth? Safety circuit is mandatory for code, mortgage, and insurance. A DC opener with or without an approved lower current safety circuit is a niche among niches. |
#57
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Solar Powered Garage Door Opener.
Good old Harbor Freight has a panel and sells the electronics to make
?12V? - have to check the site. Might have a 120v a.c. driven from a battery and an inverter. Likely need a charger from the panel. Martin On 3/27/2017 10:39 AM, David R. Birch wrote: On 3/11/2017 1:44 PM, David R. Birch wrote: I've been think about installing this in my garage which has no electricity running to it. I've googled "Solar Powered Garage Door Opener" and only found general talk, no one who's actually done it and no company that makes one. Has anyone here done this or have more info? David Amazing # of answers that don't address my question. From what I can find, many garage door openers use 12v or 24v motors with a step down transformer. Bypassing that transformer seems the way to go. Much talk about how to construct a system that I've seen elsewhere, nothing from any who have actually done it. I don't see any reason why the concept is flawed, so why isn't there a complete system on the market already? Maybe this is my road to vast wealth? OTOH, considering what I've paid for these gems of wisdom, what did I expect? :^) David --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com |
#58
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Solar Powered Garage Door Opener.
"Martin Eastburn" wrote in message
... Good old Harbor Freight has a panel and sells the electronics to make ?12V? - have to check the site. Might have a 120v a.c. driven from a battery and an inverter. Likely need a charger from the panel. Martin The HF kit is a good start with everything you need except extension wire but don't count on 45 Watts from it with the included PWM controller. System losses and the mismatch between the 17V maximum power point of the panels and the 12V of the battery reduced the net power from mine to about 30W initially in 2011 and barely 20W now, 1.5A at 14V. It puts closer to 2A into a partly discharged battery. The short circuit current nearly pegged the 3A meter I tested and aimed it with. Part of the wattage loss is the inescapable difference between a battery's 14V charging and 12.6V discharge voltage. If aimed due South it produces close to full power for about 4 hours, in my case intermittently limited by tree shadows so I can't predict the amp-hours someone else with a better site might get. -jsw |
#59
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Solar Powered Garage Door Opener.
On 2017-03-24, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"whit3rd" wrote in message ... On Sunday, March 19, 2017 at 8:46:39 PM UTC-7, Jim Wilkins wrote: "DoN. Nichols" wrote in message ... [ ... ] The benefit, was that you could put as many video cards or whatnot as you wanted, in any slot, without worrying about allocation of the interrupts or addresses, and they could work at boot without any driver install. Every bus slot had unique addresses for that ROM, there were never collisions. There was lots of cheating, though: when OS 7.5 was licensed across non-Apple computers, the licensees used to have problems: the boot ROMs they were authorized to copy, were only tested on the Apple product, and didn't fully support machines with more bus slots (since Apple made a 3-slot machine, some cards were only recognized in the first three slots of a 6-slot clone). The high order address of the slot I used was hard-wired to hex C. IIRC the ID and driver was stored backwards in ROM so that it always began at CFFF... and could be any length. The engineers must have known about the Apple Certified Programmer requirement before they dumped the project on me, a newly hired and unproven lab tech. Giving you a chance to prove your ability. :-) The next big project they gave me couldn't be done "right" within the specs and constraints. I solved it the Earl Muntz way, which no respectable engineer would admit to but a lab tech could get away with by hand-selecting parts on each board. -jsw I thought that the Earl Muntz way was to keep snipping out components from a working TV design until it stopped working and then put that last component back. :-) BTW -- Sorry about the delay. My firewall system died and it took me a few days to re-learn enough about the program to configure a new one in new hardware to get on the air again. Now -- the easy way would have been to go on eBay and purchace a replacement power supply for that system (not a common one, and not room to kluge something else into a 1U high system), but without a working firewall, eBay was out of reach. (Besides, it might have taken longer to find a replacement anyway. :-) Enjoy, DoN. -- Remove oil spill source from e-mail Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#60
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Solar Powered Garage Door Opener.
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
... On 2017-03-24, Jim Wilkins wrote: "whit3rd" wrote in message .... The engineers must have known about the Apple Certified Programmer requirement before they dumped the project on me, a newly hired and unproven lab tech. Giving you a chance to prove your ability. :-) The next big project they gave me couldn't be done "right" within the specs and constraints. I solved it the Earl Muntz way, which no respectable engineer would admit to but a lab tech could get away with by hand-selecting parts on each board. -jsw I thought that the Earl Muntz way was to keep snipping out components from a working TV design until it stopped working and then put that last component back. :-) I snipped the feature-creep from the specs as far as the engineers would allow. The original was overdesigned and the contractor was behind schedule, so this was a quickie stand-in. I called it the world's biggest, fastest wris****ch. BTW -- Sorry about the delay. My firewall system died and it took me a few days to re-learn enough about the program to configure a new one in new hardware to get on the air again. Now -- the easy way would have been to go on eBay and purchace a replacement power supply for that system (not a common one, and not room to kluge something else into a 1U high system), but without a working firewall, eBay was out of reach. (Besides, it might have taken longer to find a replacement anyway. :-) Enjoy, DoN. VME bus? -jsw |
#61
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Solar Powered Garage Door Opener.
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
... On 2017-03-24, Jim Wilkins wrote: "whit3rd" wrote in message BTW -- Sorry about the delay. My firewall system died and it took me a few days to re-learn enough about the program to configure a new one in new hardware to get on the air again. Now -- the easy way would have been to go on eBay and purchace a replacement power supply for that system (not a common one, and not room to kluge something else into a 1U high system), but without a working firewall, eBay was out of reach. (Besides, it might have taken longer to find a replacement anyway. :-) Enjoy, DoN. If you need cheap backup Internet access, XP still works with IE8, and better with Firefox. This laptop is only a 1.6 GHz single-core on dialup. Malware hasn't been a problem but if you worry about it you can backup or clone the hard drive with free software, then wipe and restore an infected (or user-damaged) drive. I do have a newer, faster Win7 system nearly ready to replace it. That "broken" laptop cost me $1 at a flea market, plus $40 for an SSD. -jsw |
#62
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Solar Powered Garage Door Opener.
On Wed, 29 Mar 2017 08:12:45 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote: "DoN. Nichols" wrote in message ... On 2017-03-24, Jim Wilkins wrote: "whit3rd" wrote in message BTW -- Sorry about the delay. My firewall system died and it took me a few days to re-learn enough about the program to configure a new one in new hardware to get on the air again. Now -- the easy way would have been to go on eBay and purchace a replacement power supply for that system (not a common one, and not room to kluge something else into a 1U high system), but without a working firewall, eBay was out of reach. (Besides, it might have taken longer to find a replacement anyway. :-) Enjoy, DoN. If you need cheap backup Internet access, XP still works with IE8, and better with Firefox. This laptop is only a 1.6 GHz single-core on dialup. Malware hasn't been a problem but if you worry about it you can backup or clone the hard drive with free software, then wipe and restore an infected (or user-damaged) drive. I do have a newer, faster Win7 system nearly ready to replace it. That "broken" laptop cost me $1 at a flea market, plus $40 for an SSD. You're lucky that Usenet is text-only with a dialup system. What else do you access with it? I remember my dialup years with horror and pain, all the way back to watching individual characters show up on my screen @ 1200baud. (I avoided 300baud by starting late.) I limp along in the high-speed world at a mere 5Mbps DSL link. For almost 5 years, CenturyLink has bombarded me monthly with ads saying "Only $20/mo for up to 30Mbps speeds" yet until last year, with my 37th complaint, that they bumped me to 5 from 3Mbps. Watching Netflix was a pain. Every time it had to rebuffer 60 seconds of data, I'd sit and wait with a frozen screen. That got old in a hurry. -- The more you know, the less you need. -- Aboriginal Saying |
#63
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Solar Powered Garage Door Opener.
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
... On Wed, 29 Mar 2017 08:12:45 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" wrote: "DoN. Nichols" wrote in message ... If you need cheap backup Internet access, XP still works with IE8, and better with Firefox. This laptop is only a 1.6 GHz single-core on dialup.......... You're lucky that Usenet is text-only with a dialup system. What else do you access with it? All the links I post between 6AM and ~9AM and usually after 6PM came from dialup. Wiki and Amazon occasionally require Firefox and my cellular modem but it has a 1.5 GB/mo data allotment that's easy to use up. I ran up 3 days worth yesterday. I don't do things I can't make work well, and there's usually at least one backup. -jsw |
#64
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Solar Powered Garage Door Opener.
On 2017-03-29, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message ... [ ... ] The next big project they gave me couldn't be done "right" within the specs and constraints. I solved it the Earl Muntz way, which no respectable engineer would admit to but a lab tech could get away with by hand-selecting parts on each board. -jsw I thought that the Earl Muntz way was to keep snipping out components from a working TV design until it stopped working and then put that last component back. :-) I snipped the feature-creep from the specs as far as the engineers would allow. The original was overdesigned and the contractor was behind schedule, so this was a quickie stand-in. I called it the world's biggest, fastest wris****ch. O.K. :-) BTW -- Sorry about the delay. My firewall system died and it took me a few days to re-learn enough about the program to configure a new one in new hardware to get on the air again. Now -- the easy way would have been to go on eBay and purchase a replacement power supply for that system (not a common one, and not room to kluge something else into a 1U high system), but without a working firewall, eBay was out of reach. (Besides, it might have taken longer to find a replacement anyway. :-) Enjoy, DoN. VME bus? Nope! The failed machine was a Sun V120 (1U high chassis, rack mount). Not room for most common power supplies, and an extra connector beyond those which are found on more recent ones. The extra connector goes to the serial management hardware, which allows you to reboot, shut down and power up from a distance. Not new enough to offer an ethernet port with ssh logins to do lots of remote maintenance. All my VME Suns are retired by now. They were Sun3 and early SPARC systems, not the current UltraSPARC ones. The power supply is likely victim to failing electrolytics, but it seems to have been made for high vibration environments, and the components are all buried in a glob of translucent RTV. A real pain to cut it out without damaging chokes and the like. Enjoy, DoN. -- Remove oil spill source from e-mail Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#65
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Solar Powered Garage Door Opener.
On 2017-03-29, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message ... On 2017-03-24, Jim Wilkins wrote: "whit3rd" wrote in message BTW -- Sorry about the delay. My firewall system died and it took me a few days to re-learn enough about the program to configure a new one in new hardware to get on the air again. Now -- the easy way would have been to go on eBay and purchase a replacement power supply for that system (not a common one, and not room to kluge something else into a 1U high system), but without a working firewall, eBay was out of reach. (Besides, it might have taken longer to find a replacement anyway. :-) Enjoy, DoN. If you need cheap backup Internet access, XP still works with IE8, and better with Firefox. This laptop is only a 1.6 GHz single-core on dialup. I make it a practice to not allow Windows of any flavor to access the net from my interface. Mostly because I don't know enough about the internals of Windows to turn off everything that I would not consider safe. Various unix flavors, including Mac's OS-X, I have a better feel for. And I've got a T1 feed, with a few systems visible from the outside (web servers and mail servers) and everything else lurking behind the firewall on a different IP group. I guess that I could have connected the laptop with Ubuntu on it, and easily enough changed its IP to work, but ... :-) Malware hasn't been a problem but if you worry about it you can backup or clone the hard drive with free software, then wipe and restore an infected (or user-damaged) drive. I do have a newer, faster Win7 system nearly ready to replace it. That "broken" laptop cost me $1 at a flea market, plus $40 for an SSD. Spare computers are nice to have. Enjoy, DoN. -- Remove oil spill source from e-mail Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#66
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Solar Powered Garage Door Opener.
On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 10:23:44 -0700, Sister Ray wrote:
On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 10:39:22 -0500, "David R. Birch" wrote: And yet, nobody offered a way to convert a solar gate opener, or suggested you change your door to suit one of those. Not enough retired guys looking to share their thoughts I guess. Or more likely semi-retired guys like me who have had or do own solar gate openers and choose not to recommend such wimpy little devices for the application. Mine isn't strong enough to break one new shoot of kudzu that grew around the gate while it was open for a day. From what I can find, many garage door openers use 12v or 24v motors with a step down transformer. Bypassing that transformer seems the way to go. That certainly sounds like an uneconomical way to go unless they use speed/acceleration control on the motor. I'll be paying attention the next time I visit a big box store. A small inverter can do the job, which is easier than reinventing the wheel. You'll need a PV module, charge controller and battery either way. Those things will be cheaper to buy separately than built into a niche product. Then you're right back to the constant standby losses of the idling inverter running 24/7. One could, of course, do the switching at the inverter but that would mean opening up the inverter and doing something "electronic" which apparently this guy doesn't want to do. Much talk about how to construct a system that I've seen elsewhere, nothing from any who have actually done it. You call it a garage door opener. I call it, for example, a horizontal sheet mover in a cardboard box builder. Motion control is motion control. I've designed dozens. I described an optimized system that would open the door as fast as possible consistent with not overstressing the door. If he wants a low performance system built from off-the-shelf parts then he should have asked for that. I don't see any reason why the concept is flawed, so why isn't there a complete system on the market already? Practically no market for a stand-alone solar door opener. Most people want other things like oh, let's say lights to also operate in the garage. If on-grid, the cheapest solution is simply to bury some NM cable from the house to the garage. Off-grid, either tap off the existing solar/hydro system if it has the excess capacity with a stock opener or do a custom one if the capacity is lacking. The OP got a variety of answers to a very generalized question. If he wanted a particular type of solution, he should have said so. John John DeArmond http://www.neon-john.com http://www.tnduction.com Tellico Plains, Occupied TN See website for email address |
#67
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Solar Powered Garage Door Opener.
On Sat, 01 Apr 2017 16:29:51 -0400, Neon John wrote:
On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 10:23:44 -0700, Sister Ray wrote: On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 10:39:22 -0500, "David R. Birch" wrote: And yet, nobody offered a way to convert a solar gate opener, or suggested you change your door to suit one of those. Not enough retired guys looking to share their thoughts I guess. Or more likely semi-retired guys like me who have had or do own solar gate openers and choose not to recommend such wimpy little devices for the application. Gate openers come in many flavors. I've worked on some that were far more substantial than the usual residential garage door openers. Slab mounted, gear motor plus chain reduction, output shaft to chain or arm actuator. They do come as solar packages, but that sure would be the hard to get around buying components. The OP got a variety of answers to a very generalized question. If he wanted a particular type of solution, he should have said so. Looks like the easiest solution for him is a residential opener with battery backup. Perhaps like this one http://tinyurl.com/loqudja. But I think he wants everything in one box, as opposed to buying a battery, panel and charge controller separately. You might package it up for him and make a few bucks. But once he sees the price, he'll probably realize that opening that door the old fashioned way isn't such a bad thing. |
#68
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Solar Powered Garage Door Opener.
On 4/1/2017 3:29 PM, Neon John wrote:
On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 10:23:44 -0700, Sister Ray wrote: On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 10:39:22 -0500, "David R. Birch" wrote: And yet, nobody offered a way to convert a solar gate opener, or suggested you change your door to suit one of those. Not enough retired guys looking to share their thoughts I guess. Or more likely semi-retired guys like me who have had or do own solar gate openers and choose not to recommend such wimpy little devices for the application. Mine isn't strong enough to break one new shoot of kudzu that grew around the gate while it was open for a day. From what I can find, many garage door openers use 12v or 24v motors with a step down transformer. Bypassing that transformer seems the way to go. That certainly sounds like an uneconomical way to go unless they use speed/acceleration control on the motor. I'll be paying attention the next time I visit a big box store. A small inverter can do the job, which is easier than reinventing the wheel. You'll need a PV module, charge controller and battery either way. Those things will be cheaper to buy separately than built into a niche product. Then you're right back to the constant standby losses of the idling inverter running 24/7. One could, of course, do the switching at the inverter but that would mean opening up the inverter and doing something "electronic" which apparently this guy doesn't want to do. Much talk about how to construct a system that I've seen elsewhere, nothing from any who have actually done it. You call it a garage door opener. I call it, for example, a horizontal sheet mover in a cardboard box builder. Motion control is motion control. I've designed dozens. I described an optimized system that would open the door as fast as possible consistent with not overstressing the door. If he wants a low performance system built from off-the-shelf parts then he should have asked for that. I don't see any reason why the concept is flawed, so why isn't there a complete system on the market already? Practically no market for a stand-alone solar door opener. Most people want other things like oh, let's say lights to also operate in the garage. If on-grid, the cheapest solution is simply to bury some NM cable from the house to the garage. Off-grid, either tap off the existing solar/hydro system if it has the excess capacity with a stock opener or do a custom one if the capacity is lacking. The OP got a variety of answers to a very generalized question. If he wanted a particular type of solution, he should have said so. Thanks for the input. I thought my original post indicated that I was looking for an existing design, not something I had to develop. "I've been think about installing this in my garage which has no electricity running to it. I've googled "Solar Powered Garage Door Opener" and only found general talk, no one who's actually done it and no company that makes one. Has anyone here done this or have more info?" David --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com |
#69
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Solar Powered Garage Door Opener.
"David R. Birch" wrote in message
... On 4/1/2017 3:29 PM, Neon John wrote: On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 10:23:44 -0700, Sister Ray wrote: ...... The OP got a variety of answers to a very generalized question. If he wanted a particular type of solution, he should have said so. Thanks for the input. I thought my original post indicated that I was looking for an existing design, not something I had to develop. "I've been think about installing this in my garage which has no electricity running to it. I've googled "Solar Powered Garage Door Opener" and only found general talk, no one who's actually done it and no company that makes one. Has anyone here done this or have more info?" David No, I haven't done it, and wouldn't attempt to design a solar battery system that needed high long term reliability without periodic attention. Is there a separate entry for when the battery fails? You (= healthy male) can disconnect and open the door manually if it's properly balanced, but only from inside. I already told you how to find a 12V opener with a backup battery that you could charge with the HF 45 Watt kit. If that's too much to "develop" you have to ask yourself if you can install and maintain the system yourself without local expertise. The pros won't touch DIY installations. -jsw |
#70
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Solar Powered Garage Door Opener.
On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 18:31:17 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote: "David R. Birch" wrote in message ... On 4/1/2017 3:29 PM, Neon John wrote: On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 10:23:44 -0700, Sister Ray wrote: ...... The OP got a variety of answers to a very generalized question. If he wanted a particular type of solution, he should have said so. Thanks for the input. I thought my original post indicated that I was looking for an existing design, not something I had to develop. "I've been think about installing this in my garage which has no electricity running to it. I've googled "Solar Powered Garage Door Opener" and only found general talk, no one who's actually done it and no company that makes one. Has anyone here done this or have more info?" David No, I haven't done it, and wouldn't attempt to design a solar battery system that needed high long term reliability without periodic attention. Is there a separate entry for when the battery fails? You (= healthy male) can disconnect and open the door manually if it's properly balanced, but only from inside. A well-balanced 16' wide garage door can be opened by teen girls, moms, and grannies, Jim, not just healthy males. I've balanced many a door with new springs, and rebalanced a dozen which were sagging. Done right, they're neutral, so a 15lb pull will overcome the inertia and open it right up. -- That's the thing about needs. Sometimes, when you get them met, you don't need them anymore. -- Michael Patrick King |
#71
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Solar Powered Garage Door Opener.
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
... On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 18:31:17 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" wrote: "David R. Birch" wrote in message ... On 4/1/2017 3:29 PM, Neon John wrote: On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 10:23:44 -0700, Sister Ray wrote: ...... The OP got a variety of answers to a very generalized question. If he wanted a particular type of solution, he should have said so. Thanks for the input. I thought my original post indicated that I was looking for an existing design, not something I had to develop. "I've been think about installing this in my garage which has no electricity running to it. I've googled "Solar Powered Garage Door Opener" and only found general talk, no one who's actually done it and no company that makes one. Has anyone here done this or have more info?" David No, I haven't done it, and wouldn't attempt to design a solar battery system that needed high long term reliability without periodic attention. Is there a separate entry for when the battery fails? You (= healthy male) can disconnect and open the door manually if it's properly balanced, but only from inside. A well-balanced 16' wide garage door can be opened by teen girls, moms, and grannies, Jim, not just healthy males. I've balanced many a door with new springs, and rebalanced a dozen which were sagging. Done right, they're neutral, so a 15lb pull will overcome the inertia and open it right up. So you know how poorly they can be installed. |
#72
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
Solar Powered Garage Door Opener.
On Wed, 5 Apr 2017 14:41:01 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote: "Larry Jaques" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 18:31:17 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" wrote: "David R. Birch" wrote in message ... On 4/1/2017 3:29 PM, Neon John wrote: On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 10:23:44 -0700, Sister Ray wrote: ...... The OP got a variety of answers to a very generalized question. If he wanted a particular type of solution, he should have said so. Thanks for the input. I thought my original post indicated that I was looking for an existing design, not something I had to develop. "I've been think about installing this in my garage which has no electricity running to it. I've googled "Solar Powered Garage Door Opener" and only found general talk, no one who's actually done it and no company that makes one. Has anyone here done this or have more info?" David No, I haven't done it, and wouldn't attempt to design a solar battery system that needed high long term reliability without periodic attention. Is there a separate entry for when the battery fails? You (= healthy male) can disconnect and open the door manually if it's properly balanced, but only from inside. A well-balanced 16' wide garage door can be opened by teen girls, moms, and grannies, Jim, not just healthy males. I've balanced many a door with new springs, and rebalanced a dozen which were sagging. Done right, they're neutral, so a 15lb pull will overcome the inertia and open it right up. So you know how poorly they can be installed. Well, either that or they slipped after vibrating loose...which would be a poor install, so yeah. :-/ After doing one side of my neighbor's 16' (they didn't want to spend the money for the extra spring and half an hour's labor), their single door spring broke within 2 weeks. Amazing! They were about 12 years old. The single used the opposite spring as the one I replaced on the dual. Most owners won't go for both springs, and I've never had to go back and replace the other side yet. When I first started doing these, the GD mfgrs wanted $25-30 for winding rods. I swung by the hardware store and spent $3.49 for a 3' length of 1/2" zinc coated steel rod an cut it in half, and I still have them. -- That's the thing about needs. Sometimes, when you get them met, you don't need them anymore. -- Michael Patrick King |
Reply |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
overhead door brand 556 garage door opener,1/2 amp board | Home Repair | |||
Garage Door Opener | Home Repair | |||
Garage Door Opener Won't Lower Door | Home Repair | |||
Ceiling in garage too low for installling garage door opener | Home Ownership | |||
overhead door garage door opener | Home Ownership |