Hi D, hope you are having a nice day

On 18-Aug-03 At About 21:05:11, D O G wrote to All
Subject: Replacing furnace blower motor

DOG From: "D O G"

DOG "HeatMan" wrote in message
DOG ...
Get a *competent*, licensed, professionally trained, HVAC technician
to
DOG get
the problem diagnosed and corrected properly. It will save you money
in the long run.

I had a customer that wanted to do it himself. He burned his brand
new motor and still had to pay me to come out and install a new motor


DOG but replacing a motor does
DOG seem quite doable to me. I already took it out, all I have to do is
DOG buy a new one and put it back in.

DOG So, if anybody has answers to my original questions, I'd appreciate
DOG it very much.

The questions you are asking are very basic and that is why we are trying to
get you to understand that it isn't quite as easy as you are thinking it is.
it is very easy to burn a relay or even easier to burn up that circuit board
that most of the new ones have nowadays. all it takes is one wire in the
wrong place and you have a nicely toasted mess.


-= HvacTech2 =-


... "After they make styrofoam, what do they ship it in?" - s.w.

___ TagDude 0.92á+[DM]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++
spam protection measure, Please remove the 33 to send e-mail

Hi D, hope you are having a nice day

On 18-Aug-03 At About 21:05:11, D O G wrote to All
Subject: Replacing furnace blower motor

DOG From: "D O G"

DOG "HeatMan" wrote in message
DOG ...
Get a *competent*, licensed, professionally trained, HVAC technician
to
DOG get
the problem diagnosed and corrected properly. It will save you money
in the long run.

I had a customer that wanted to do it himself. He burned his brand
new motor and still had to pay me to come out and install a new motor


DOG but replacing a motor does
DOG seem quite doable to me. I already took it out, all I have to do is
DOG buy a new one and put it back in.

DOG So, if anybody has answers to my original questions, I'd appreciate
DOG it very much.

The questions you are asking are very basic and that is why we are trying to
get you to understand that it isn't quite as easy as you are thinking it is.
it is very easy to burn a relay or even easier to burn up that circuit board
that most of the new ones have nowadays. all it takes is one wire in the
wrong place and you have a nicely toasted mess.


-= HvacTech2 =-


... "After they make styrofoam, what do they ship it in?" - s.w.

___ TagDude 0.92á+[DM]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++
spam protection measure, Please remove the 33 to send e-mail

I am fairly clueless about it, please forgive me if my questions are
completely stupid.

-The current motor is 1075 rpm 4spd (direct drive), do I need to go with a
4spd motor replacement or a motor with smaller # of speeds will do. I cannot
set the speed with the thermostat, so I presume thermostat sets the speed
internally, based on its own built-in rules. I am guessing then that less
then 4 speed motor will not work or will not be as efficient.
-The motor is 1/3 HP, does it make any sense to go with a slightly more
powerful motor, i.e. 1/2 HP? Any advantages/disadvantages?
-The motor has an external capacitor 5/370. Can I get a replacement motor
with different capacitor's parameters, assuming all the rest of the motor's
parameters and dimensions are the same. Will it work or the motor must have
exactly the same capacitors.
-What's a good and inexpensive place to buy the motor on the internet? What
should I expect to pay for it: 115V, 1/3HP, 60HZ, 5.8 AMPS, 1075RMP 4SPD

Thanks a lot for your help

Get a *competent*, licensed, professionally trained, HVAC technician to get
the problem diagnosed and corrected properly. It will save you money in
the long run.

I had a customer that wanted to do it himself. He burned his brand new
motor and still had to pay me to come out and install a new motor

"D O G" wrote in message
.net...
I am fairly clueless about it, please forgive me if my questions are
completely stupid.

-The current motor is 1075 rpm 4spd (direct drive), do I need to go with a
4spd motor replacement or a motor with smaller # of speeds will do. I
cannot
set the speed with the thermostat, so I presume thermostat sets the speed
internally, based on its own built-in rules. I am guessing then that less
then 4 speed motor will not work or will not be as efficient.
-The motor is 1/3 HP, does it make any sense to go with a slightly more
powerful motor, i.e. 1/2 HP? Any advantages/disadvantages?
-The motor has an external capacitor 5/370. Can I get a replacement motor
with different capacitor's parameters, assuming all the rest of the
motor's
parameters and dimensions are the same. Will it work or the motor must
have
exactly the same capacitors.
-What's a good and inexpensive place to buy the motor on the internet?
What
should I expect to pay for it: 115V, 1/3HP, 60HZ, 5.8 AMPS, 1075RMP 4SPD

Thanks a lot for your help

Get a *competent*, licensed, professionally trained, HVAC technician to get
the problem diagnosed and corrected properly. It will save you money in
the long run.

I had a customer that wanted to do it himself. He burned his brand new
motor and still had to pay me to come out and install a new motor

"D O G" wrote in message
.net...
I am fairly clueless about it, please forgive me if my questions are
completely stupid.

-The current motor is 1075 rpm 4spd (direct drive), do I need to go with a
4spd motor replacement or a motor with smaller # of speeds will do. I
cannot
set the speed with the thermostat, so I presume thermostat sets the speed
internally, based on its own built-in rules. I am guessing then that less
then 4 speed motor will not work or will not be as efficient.
-The motor is 1/3 HP, does it make any sense to go with a slightly more
powerful motor, i.e. 1/2 HP? Any advantages/disadvantages?
-The motor has an external capacitor 5/370. Can I get a replacement motor
with different capacitor's parameters, assuming all the rest of the
motor's
parameters and dimensions are the same. Will it work or the motor must
have
exactly the same capacitors.
-What's a good and inexpensive place to buy the motor on the internet?
What
should I expect to pay for it: 115V, 1/3HP, 60HZ, 5.8 AMPS, 1075RMP 4SPD

Thanks a lot for your help

Dont mess with it .. Im a homeowner, and smart enough to know I
wouldnt mess with my 4 speed and possibly bad circutry, Or blow it
all up and loose any warranty and circut board at my cost , Plus
What caused the problem?

Dont mess with it .. Im a homeowner, and smart enough to know I
wouldnt mess with my 4 speed and possibly bad circutry, Or blow it
all up and loose any warranty and circut board at my cost , Plus
What caused the problem?

"HeatMan" wrote in message
...
Get a *competent*, licensed, professionally trained, HVAC technician to
get
the problem diagnosed and corrected properly. It will save you money in
the long run.

I had a customer that wanted to do it himself. He burned his brand new
motor and still had to pay me to come out and install a new motor

There may have been 20 people on that day who wanted to do it themselves.
One failed, and became your customer. The other 19 succeeded, but you'll
never know about their success cause they had no reason to call you for
help. What I am trying to say is that being an HVAC pro, you only deal with
those who failed, you have no idea how many do get the job done successfully
:-)

And indeed, people fix their houses, roofs, floors, cars, appliances,
electronics etc, why not HVAC. Some of the jobs I would not risk and would
indeed leave to professionals, but replacing a motor does seem quite doable
to me. I already took it out, all I have to do is buy a new one and put it
back in.

So, if anybody has answers to my original questions, I'd appreciate it very
much.

"HeatMan" wrote in message
...
Get a *competent*, licensed, professionally trained, HVAC technician to
get
the problem diagnosed and corrected properly. It will save you money in
the long run.

I had a customer that wanted to do it himself. He burned his brand new
motor and still had to pay me to come out and install a new motor

There may have been 20 people on that day who wanted to do it themselves.
One failed, and became your customer. The other 19 succeeded, but you'll
never know about their success cause they had no reason to call you for
help. What I am trying to say is that being an HVAC pro, you only deal with
those who failed, you have no idea how many do get the job done successfully
:-)

And indeed, people fix their houses, roofs, floors, cars, appliances,
electronics etc, why not HVAC. Some of the jobs I would not risk and would
indeed leave to professionals, but replacing a motor does seem quite doable
to me. I already took it out, all I have to do is buy a new one and put it
back in.

So, if anybody has answers to my original questions, I'd appreciate it very
much.

CBHvac, your computer clock is ahead by 3 hours. That's ok if you prefer it that
way but it makes the message continuity very strange when sorted by time.
Need any help adjusting that? )

CBHvac wrote:

"D O G" wrote in message
.net...
"HeatMan" wrote in message
...
Get a *competent*, licensed, professionally trained, HVAC technician to
get
the problem diagnosed and corrected properly. It will save you money
in
the long run.

I had a customer that wanted to do it himself. He burned his brand new
motor and still had to pay me to come out and install a new motor

There may have been 20 people on that day who wanted to do it themselves.
One failed, and became your customer. The other 19 succeeded, but you'll
never know about their success cause they had no reason to call you for
help. What I am trying to say is that being an HVAC pro, you only deal
with
those who failed, you have no idea how many do get the job done
successfully
:-)


We read about a few that die by electrocution as well doing this stuff..

And indeed, people fix their houses, roofs, floors, cars, appliances,
electronics etc, why not HVAC.

HVAC is the only trade that is regulated at the local, State and Federal
level. Granted, you are replacing a motor.....but, replacement with a larger
HP, or the wrong speed, and you have issues you didnt have before.
Then, where are you at?

Some of the jobs I would not risk and would
indeed leave to professionals, but replacing a motor does seem quite
doable
to me. I already took it out, all I have to do is buy a new one and put it
back in.

No...its not that simple...what speed was the old motor set at? For cool?
For heat? Low, Med Low, MedHigh, or high?

Did it have 6 or 7 wires off it? What if the new one has one more, or one
less? You know, some do NOT come with wiring directions. Shaft size? Shaft
length?


So, if anybody has answers to my original questions, I'd appreciate it
very
much.

Well...you can try your local HVAC supply center, but, most legitimate ones
do not sell to a homeowner, and will charge you prob more for the motor than
your tech will.
A tech, again, can tell you if it was indeed the motor, a relay, a cap, a
fan control center or temp overload that failed and repair as needed...and
can do it normally in less time than you have spent thus far, trying to save
$40.

CBHvac, your computer clock is ahead by 3 hours. That's ok if you prefer it that
way but it makes the message continuity very strange when sorted by time.
Need any help adjusting that? )

CBHvac wrote:

"D O G" wrote in message
.net...
"HeatMan" wrote in message
...
Get a *competent*, licensed, professionally trained, HVAC technician to
get
the problem diagnosed and corrected properly. It will save you money
in
the long run.

I had a customer that wanted to do it himself. He burned his brand new
motor and still had to pay me to come out and install a new motor

There may have been 20 people on that day who wanted to do it themselves.
One failed, and became your customer. The other 19 succeeded, but you'll
never know about their success cause they had no reason to call you for
help. What I am trying to say is that being an HVAC pro, you only deal
with
those who failed, you have no idea how many do get the job done
successfully
:-)


We read about a few that die by electrocution as well doing this stuff..

And indeed, people fix their houses, roofs, floors, cars, appliances,
electronics etc, why not HVAC.

HVAC is the only trade that is regulated at the local, State and Federal
level. Granted, you are replacing a motor.....but, replacement with a larger
HP, or the wrong speed, and you have issues you didnt have before.
Then, where are you at?

Some of the jobs I would not risk and would
indeed leave to professionals, but replacing a motor does seem quite
doable
to me. I already took it out, all I have to do is buy a new one and put it
back in.

No...its not that simple...what speed was the old motor set at? For cool?
For heat? Low, Med Low, MedHigh, or high?

Did it have 6 or 7 wires off it? What if the new one has one more, or one
less? You know, some do NOT come with wiring directions. Shaft size? Shaft
length?


So, if anybody has answers to my original questions, I'd appreciate it
very
much.

Well...you can try your local HVAC supply center, but, most legitimate ones
do not sell to a homeowner, and will charge you prob more for the motor than
your tech will.
A tech, again, can tell you if it was indeed the motor, a relay, a cap, a
fan control center or temp overload that failed and repair as needed...and
can do it normally in less time than you have spent thus far, trying to save
$40.

We read about a few that die by electrocution as well doing this stuff..
That could happen while changing a bulb.

HVAC is the only trade that is regulated at the local, State and Federal
level. Granted, you are replacing a motor.....but, replacement with a
larger
HP, or the wrong speed, and you have issues you didnt have before.
Then, where are you at?
I am clueless as I said before, but I am not stupid. If I am not sure I do
not do it. I am researching, reading, asking questions, learning etc. That's
why I asked the question to this newsgroup and now thanks to you btw :-) I
know that I should get same HP, RPM, Speeds etc as the original.

No...its not that simple...what speed was the old motor set at? For cool?
For heat? Low, Med Low, MedHigh, or high?
Did it have 6 or 7 wires off it? What if the new one has one more, or one
less? You know, some do NOT come with wiring directions. Shaft size? Shaft
length?
It has 6 wires, 2 for the capacitor and the rest for four different speeds.
When I disconnected the motor I made sure to write down which wire
represented what speed and where on the board it was connected. When I am
getting a new motor, I'll make sure that the number of wires are the same
and that it comes with instructions. I'll certainly make sure the shaft
dimensions are the same as well.

Well...you can try your local HVAC supply center, but, most legitimate
ones
do not sell to a homeowner, and will charge you prob more for the motor
than
your tech will.
A tech, again, can tell you if it was indeed the motor, a relay, a cap, a
fan control center or temp overload that failed and repair as needed...and
can do it normally in less time than you have spent thus far, trying to
save
$40.
We both know it is not $40 not even close, especially here in NJ. But it's
more than just money of course, I truly enjoy doing things on my own, it's
hard the first time around, but the more you do the easier it becomes (and
the more you save).

I do appreciate your responses and information you provided. I do intend to
follow your advice, I will probably go with a local electrical supply store
like Grainger mentioned in another response and make sure they
cross-reference my motor. Then I will run it by a local HVAC professional to
double check that I am getting the right unit. Then I will try to install it
on my own and if after all the preparation and research I get electricuted,
I guess I do not deserve a better lot :-)

Thanks a lot for your help.

We read about a few that die by electrocution as well doing this stuff..
That could happen while changing a bulb.

HVAC is the only trade that is regulated at the local, State and Federal
level. Granted, you are replacing a motor.....but, replacement with a
larger
HP, or the wrong speed, and you have issues you didnt have before.
Then, where are you at?
I am clueless as I said before, but I am not stupid. If I am not sure I do
not do it. I am researching, reading, asking questions, learning etc. That's
why I asked the question to this newsgroup and now thanks to you btw :-) I
know that I should get same HP, RPM, Speeds etc as the original.

No...its not that simple...what speed was the old motor set at? For cool?
For heat? Low, Med Low, MedHigh, or high?
Did it have 6 or 7 wires off it? What if the new one has one more, or one
less? You know, some do NOT come with wiring directions. Shaft size? Shaft
length?
It has 6 wires, 2 for the capacitor and the rest for four different speeds.
When I disconnected the motor I made sure to write down which wire
represented what speed and where on the board it was connected. When I am
getting a new motor, I'll make sure that the number of wires are the same
and that it comes with instructions. I'll certainly make sure the shaft
dimensions are the same as well.

Well...you can try your local HVAC supply center, but, most legitimate
ones
do not sell to a homeowner, and will charge you prob more for the motor
than
your tech will.
A tech, again, can tell you if it was indeed the motor, a relay, a cap, a
fan control center or temp overload that failed and repair as needed...and
can do it normally in less time than you have spent thus far, trying to
save
$40.
We both know it is not $40 not even close, especially here in NJ. But it's
more than just money of course, I truly enjoy doing things on my own, it's
hard the first time around, but the more you do the easier it becomes (and
the more you save).

I do appreciate your responses and information you provided. I do intend to
follow your advice, I will probably go with a local electrical supply store
like Grainger mentioned in another response and make sure they
cross-reference my motor. Then I will run it by a local HVAC professional to
double check that I am getting the right unit. Then I will try to install it
on my own and if after all the preparation and research I get electricuted,
I guess I do not deserve a better lot :-)

Thanks a lot for your help.

On 18 Aug 2003, D O G wrote:

...
I do appreciate your responses and information you provided. I do
intend to follow your advice, I will probably go with a local
electrical supply store like Grainger mentioned in another response
and make sure they cross-reference my motor. Then I will run it by a
local HVAC professional to double check that I am getting the right
unit.

See, that's where your story gets blown out of the water. Not only
are you going to suck up the free advice given (willingly) here,
but you plan to somehow get a free opinion from your "local HVAC
professional" for some more n/c guidance? What do you plan on
doing, having him order you one, bring it into your home so you
can get a look at it, and then cancelling the job on some bull****
reason?

Then I will try to install it on my own and if after all the
preparation and research I get electricuted, I guess I do not deserve
a better lot :-)

As much as it pains me to agree with CBHvac (trust me, we have
some "history") I do 100% in this situation. You're a cheapskate,
period. You deserve everything bad that could possibly happen to
you in this situation. Break a leg.

--
TP

On 18 Aug 2003, D O G wrote:

...
I do appreciate your responses and information you provided. I do
intend to follow your advice, I will probably go with a local
electrical supply store like Grainger mentioned in another response
and make sure they cross-reference my motor. Then I will run it by a
local HVAC professional to double check that I am getting the right
unit.

See, that's where your story gets blown out of the water. Not only
are you going to suck up the free advice given (willingly) here,
but you plan to somehow get a free opinion from your "local HVAC
professional" for some more n/c guidance? What do you plan on
doing, having him order you one, bring it into your home so you
can get a look at it, and then cancelling the job on some bull****
reason?

Then I will try to install it on my own and if after all the
preparation and research I get electricuted, I guess I do not deserve
a better lot :-)

As much as it pains me to agree with CBHvac (trust me, we have
some "history") I do 100% in this situation. You're a cheapskate,
period. You deserve everything bad that could possibly happen to
you in this situation. Break a leg.

--
TP

6 wires? 4 speeds....hummmm.....can be done...but what you just described,
is a 3 speed motor....

One wire for common, 3 for speeds, and 2 for the cap....
if you had ONE for the cap, with the cap being fed off a hot....I can see
it...
You are right, there is a 7th wire for common, I just did not count it. Then
2 wires for the cap and 4 wires for speed.

One word of warning....if you DO use Grainger...(shudder) do NOT get a
Dayton motor....AOSmith or GE. Grainger is not the cheapest place to get
one, and the Grainger here will NOT sell to a homeowner. Just be prepared.
The original was a GE motor, so I'll try to stick with GE if possible

Thanks a lot .

6 wires? 4 speeds....hummmm.....can be done...but what you just described,
is a 3 speed motor....

One wire for common, 3 for speeds, and 2 for the cap....
if you had ONE for the cap, with the cap being fed off a hot....I can see
it...
You are right, there is a 7th wire for common, I just did not count it. Then
2 wires for the cap and 4 wires for speed.

One word of warning....if you DO use Grainger...(shudder) do NOT get a
Dayton motor....AOSmith or GE. Grainger is not the cheapest place to get
one, and the Grainger here will NOT sell to a homeowner. Just be prepared.
The original was a GE motor, so I'll try to stick with GE if possible

Thanks a lot .

"D O G" wrote in message
.net...
I am fairly clueless about it, please forgive me if my questions are
completely stupid.


You asked questions...no question is stupid if you do not know the answer,
however, you may not like the answer you get.
Please keep that in mind.


-The current motor is 1075 rpm 4spd (direct drive), do I need to go with a
4spd motor replacement or a motor with smaller # of speeds will do.

If you have a 4 speed unit, you need 4 speeds. IF you have a dual speed,
normally, you need 4 speeds.
WHY?
The speeds are there for a reason. Its a little thing called static
pressure, and the motors have more than one speed for a reason.
Even a heat pump, that the motor runs at the same speed regardless of heat
or cool mode, will have at least 3 options.


I cannot
set the speed with the thermostat, so I presume thermostat sets the speed
internally, based on its own built-in rules.

Nope.
Its all in the wiring, and how the unit you have, that no one on the net can
see, and the duct design that you have, calls for.


I am guessing then that less
then 4 speed motor will not work or will not be as efficient.

It may not work right, thats correct.


-The motor is 1/3 HP, does it make any sense to go with a slightly more
powerful motor, i.e. 1/2 HP? Any advantages/disadvantages?

Just explosion of the cage...the unit is rated for a particular load, at a
particular RPM, using a particular HP...go higher, and the cage COULD spin
faster than designed, and it COULD come apart...real fun at over 1000 RPM...

-The motor has an external capacitor 5/370. Can I get a replacement motor
with different capacitor's parameters, assuming all the rest of the
motor's
parameters and dimensions are the same. Will it work or the motor must
have
exactly the same capacitors.

You can get anything you want, but, if you have to ask that, its time to
stop...


-What's a good and inexpensive place to buy the motor on the internet?
What
should I expect to pay for it: 115V, 1/3HP, 60HZ, 5.8 AMPS, 1075RMP 4SPD

There isnt a place on the net, in all honesty, that is a good place to buy a
motor, unless you are a certified tech. Everyone else wants too much for
crap motors.
Your best bet, to insure a safe, and complete repair, while its not rocket
science, IS to call a local competent, and licenced tech out to make sure
that it is actually the motor you need...and insure that if it is, you do
not end up like the guy over in Greensboro that was a crispy critter for
trying to replace his motor.
No..its not all doom and gloom...but, better safe than sorry, and in all
honesty, from your questions, you could get hurt, particularly since the
replacement motor MAY NOT be wired the same way.

I have a varity of motors, that fit that bill. They range in price from
about $30 each to over $150. It depends on the application, design of the
unit, and other factors that we simply can not see over the net.

Call a tech...really.


Thanks a lot for your help

"D O G" wrote in message
.net...
I am fairly clueless about it, please forgive me if my questions are
completely stupid.


You asked questions...no question is stupid if you do not know the answer,
however, you may not like the answer you get.
Please keep that in mind.


-The current motor is 1075 rpm 4spd (direct drive), do I need to go with a
4spd motor replacement or a motor with smaller # of speeds will do.

If you have a 4 speed unit, you need 4 speeds. IF you have a dual speed,
normally, you need 4 speeds.
WHY?
The speeds are there for a reason. Its a little thing called static
pressure, and the motors have more than one speed for a reason.
Even a heat pump, that the motor runs at the same speed regardless of heat
or cool mode, will have at least 3 options.


I cannot
set the speed with the thermostat, so I presume thermostat sets the speed
internally, based on its own built-in rules.

Nope.
Its all in the wiring, and how the unit you have, that no one on the net can
see, and the duct design that you have, calls for.


I am guessing then that less
then 4 speed motor will not work or will not be as efficient.

It may not work right, thats correct.


-The motor is 1/3 HP, does it make any sense to go with a slightly more
powerful motor, i.e. 1/2 HP? Any advantages/disadvantages?

Just explosion of the cage...the unit is rated for a particular load, at a
particular RPM, using a particular HP...go higher, and the cage COULD spin
faster than designed, and it COULD come apart...real fun at over 1000 RPM...

-The motor has an external capacitor 5/370. Can I get a replacement motor
with different capacitor's parameters, assuming all the rest of the
motor's
parameters and dimensions are the same. Will it work or the motor must
have
exactly the same capacitors.

You can get anything you want, but, if you have to ask that, its time to
stop...


-What's a good and inexpensive place to buy the motor on the internet?
What
should I expect to pay for it: 115V, 1/3HP, 60HZ, 5.8 AMPS, 1075RMP 4SPD

There isnt a place on the net, in all honesty, that is a good place to buy a
motor, unless you are a certified tech. Everyone else wants too much for
crap motors.
Your best bet, to insure a safe, and complete repair, while its not rocket
science, IS to call a local competent, and licenced tech out to make sure
that it is actually the motor you need...and insure that if it is, you do
not end up like the guy over in Greensboro that was a crispy critter for
trying to replace his motor.
No..its not all doom and gloom...but, better safe than sorry, and in all
honesty, from your questions, you could get hurt, particularly since the
replacement motor MAY NOT be wired the same way.

I have a varity of motors, that fit that bill. They range in price from
about $30 each to over $150. It depends on the application, design of the
unit, and other factors that we simply can not see over the net.

Call a tech...really.


Thanks a lot for your help

"D O G" wrote in message
.net...
"HeatMan" wrote in message
...
Get a *competent*, licensed, professionally trained, HVAC technician to
get
the problem diagnosed and corrected properly. It will save you money
in
the long run.

I had a customer that wanted to do it himself. He burned his brand new
motor and still had to pay me to come out and install a new motor

There may have been 20 people on that day who wanted to do it themselves.
One failed, and became your customer. The other 19 succeeded, but you'll
never know about their success cause they had no reason to call you for
help. What I am trying to say is that being an HVAC pro, you only deal
with
those who failed, you have no idea how many do get the job done
successfully
:-)


We read about a few that die by electrocution as well doing this stuff..


And indeed, people fix their houses, roofs, floors, cars, appliances,
electronics etc, why not HVAC.

HVAC is the only trade that is regulated at the local, State and Federal
level. Granted, you are replacing a motor.....but, replacement with a larger
HP, or the wrong speed, and you have issues you didnt have before.
Then, where are you at?

Some of the jobs I would not risk and would
indeed leave to professionals, but replacing a motor does seem quite
doable
to me. I already took it out, all I have to do is buy a new one and put it
back in.

No...its not that simple...what speed was the old motor set at? For cool?
For heat? Low, Med Low, MedHigh, or high?

Did it have 6 or 7 wires off it? What if the new one has one more, or one
less? You know, some do NOT come with wiring directions. Shaft size? Shaft
length?


So, if anybody has answers to my original questions, I'd appreciate it
very
much.

Well...you can try your local HVAC supply center, but, most legitimate ones
do not sell to a homeowner, and will charge you prob more for the motor than
your tech will.
A tech, again, can tell you if it was indeed the motor, a relay, a cap, a
fan control center or temp overload that failed and repair as needed...and
can do it normally in less time than you have spent thus far, trying to save
$40.

"D O G" wrote in message
.net...
"HeatMan" wrote in message
...
Get a *competent*, licensed, professionally trained, HVAC technician to
get
the problem diagnosed and corrected properly. It will save you money
in
the long run.

I had a customer that wanted to do it himself. He burned his brand new
motor and still had to pay me to come out and install a new motor

There may have been 20 people on that day who wanted to do it themselves.
One failed, and became your customer. The other 19 succeeded, but you'll
never know about their success cause they had no reason to call you for
help. What I am trying to say is that being an HVAC pro, you only deal
with
those who failed, you have no idea how many do get the job done
successfully
:-)


We read about a few that die by electrocution as well doing this stuff..


And indeed, people fix their houses, roofs, floors, cars, appliances,
electronics etc, why not HVAC.

HVAC is the only trade that is regulated at the local, State and Federal
level. Granted, you are replacing a motor.....but, replacement with a larger
HP, or the wrong speed, and you have issues you didnt have before.
Then, where are you at?

Some of the jobs I would not risk and would
indeed leave to professionals, but replacing a motor does seem quite
doable
to me. I already took it out, all I have to do is buy a new one and put it
back in.

No...its not that simple...what speed was the old motor set at? For cool?
For heat? Low, Med Low, MedHigh, or high?

Did it have 6 or 7 wires off it? What if the new one has one more, or one
less? You know, some do NOT come with wiring directions. Shaft size? Shaft
length?


So, if anybody has answers to my original questions, I'd appreciate it
very
much.

Well...you can try your local HVAC supply center, but, most legitimate ones
do not sell to a homeowner, and will charge you prob more for the motor than
your tech will.
A tech, again, can tell you if it was indeed the motor, a relay, a cap, a
fan control center or temp overload that failed and repair as needed...and
can do it normally in less time than you have spent thus far, trying to save
$40.

"Stoney" wrote in message
...
CBHvac, your computer clock is ahead by 3 hours. That's ok if you prefer
it that
way but it makes the message continuity very strange when sorted by time.
Need any help adjusting that? )

I keep getting told that....and man..I have checked my end...its GOT to be
my server...my clock is showing the current time, in every setting.


CBHvac wrote:

"D O G" wrote in message
.net...
"HeatMan" wrote in message
...
Get a *competent*, licensed, professionally trained, HVAC technician
to
get
the problem diagnosed and corrected properly. It will save you
money
in
the long run.

I had a customer that wanted to do it himself. He burned his brand
new
motor and still had to pay me to come out and install a new motor

There may have been 20 people on that day who wanted to do it
themselves.
One failed, and became your customer. The other 19 succeeded, but
you'll
never know about their success cause they had no reason to call you
for
help. What I am trying to say is that being an HVAC pro, you only deal
with
those who failed, you have no idea how many do get the job done
successfully
:-)


We read about a few that die by electrocution as well doing this stuff..

And indeed, people fix their houses, roofs, floors, cars, appliances,
electronics etc, why not HVAC.

HVAC is the only trade that is regulated at the local, State and Federal
level. Granted, you are replacing a motor.....but, replacement with a
larger
HP, or the wrong speed, and you have issues you didnt have before.
Then, where are you at?

Some of the jobs I would not risk and would
indeed leave to professionals, but replacing a motor does seem quite
doable
to me. I already took it out, all I have to do is buy a new one and
put it
back in.

No...its not that simple...what speed was the old motor set at? For
cool?
For heat? Low, Med Low, MedHigh, or high?

Did it have 6 or 7 wires off it? What if the new one has one more, or
one
less? You know, some do NOT come with wiring directions. Shaft size?
Shaft
length?


So, if anybody has answers to my original questions, I'd appreciate it
very
much.

Well...you can try your local HVAC supply center, but, most legitimate
ones
do not sell to a homeowner, and will charge you prob more for the motor
than
your tech will.
A tech, again, can tell you if it was indeed the motor, a relay, a cap,
a
fan control center or temp overload that failed and repair as
needed...and
can do it normally in less time than you have spent thus far, trying to
save
$40.

"Stoney" wrote in message
...
CBHvac, your computer clock is ahead by 3 hours. That's ok if you prefer
it that
way but it makes the message continuity very strange when sorted by time.
Need any help adjusting that? )

I keep getting told that....and man..I have checked my end...its GOT to be
my server...my clock is showing the current time, in every setting.


CBHvac wrote:

"D O G" wrote in message
.net...
"HeatMan" wrote in message
...
Get a *competent*, licensed, professionally trained, HVAC technician
to
get
the problem diagnosed and corrected properly. It will save you
money
in
the long run.

I had a customer that wanted to do it himself. He burned his brand
new
motor and still had to pay me to come out and install a new motor

There may have been 20 people on that day who wanted to do it
themselves.
One failed, and became your customer. The other 19 succeeded, but
you'll
never know about their success cause they had no reason to call you
for
help. What I am trying to say is that being an HVAC pro, you only deal
with
those who failed, you have no idea how many do get the job done
successfully
:-)


We read about a few that die by electrocution as well doing this stuff..

And indeed, people fix their houses, roofs, floors, cars, appliances,
electronics etc, why not HVAC.

HVAC is the only trade that is regulated at the local, State and Federal
level. Granted, you are replacing a motor.....but, replacement with a
larger
HP, or the wrong speed, and you have issues you didnt have before.
Then, where are you at?

Some of the jobs I would not risk and would
indeed leave to professionals, but replacing a motor does seem quite
doable
to me. I already took it out, all I have to do is buy a new one and
put it
back in.

No...its not that simple...what speed was the old motor set at? For
cool?
For heat? Low, Med Low, MedHigh, or high?

Did it have 6 or 7 wires off it? What if the new one has one more, or
one
less? You know, some do NOT come with wiring directions. Shaft size?
Shaft
length?


So, if anybody has answers to my original questions, I'd appreciate it
very
much.

Well...you can try your local HVAC supply center, but, most legitimate
ones
do not sell to a homeowner, and will charge you prob more for the motor
than
your tech will.
A tech, again, can tell you if it was indeed the motor, a relay, a cap,
a
fan control center or temp overload that failed and repair as
needed...and
can do it normally in less time than you have spent thus far, trying to
save
$40.

"D O G" wrote in message
.net...
We read about a few that die by electrocution as well doing this stuff..
That could happen while changing a bulb.

It COULD, but you and I both know, most people have changed a light bulb
more than once...not so with a blower motor.



HVAC is the only trade that is regulated at the local, State and Federal
level. Granted, you are replacing a motor.....but, replacement with a
larger
HP, or the wrong speed, and you have issues you didnt have before.
Then, where are you at?
I am clueless as I said before, but I am not stupid. If I am not sure I do
not do it. I am researching, reading, asking questions, learning etc.
That's
why I asked the question to this newsgroup and now thanks to you btw :-) I
know that I should get same HP, RPM, Speeds etc as the original.

NP...if you are going to do it, simply be careful, dont make stupid
mistakes...

No...its not that simple...what speed was the old motor set at? For
cool?
For heat? Low, Med Low, MedHigh, or high?
Did it have 6 or 7 wires off it? What if the new one has one more, or
one
less? You know, some do NOT come with wiring directions. Shaft size?
Shaft
length?
It has 6 wires, 2 for the capacitor and the rest for four different
speeds.
When I disconnected the motor I made sure to write down which wire
represented what speed and where on the board it was connected. When I am
getting a new motor, I'll make sure that the number of wires are the same
and that it comes with instructions. I'll certainly make sure the shaft
dimensions are the same as well.

6 wires? 4 speeds....hummmm.....can be done...but what you just described,
is a 3 speed motor....

One wire for common, 3 for speeds, and 2 for the cap....
if you had ONE for the cap, with the cap being fed off a hot....I can see
it...


Well...you can try your local HVAC supply center, but, most legitimate
ones
do not sell to a homeowner, and will charge you prob more for the motor
than
your tech will.
A tech, again, can tell you if it was indeed the motor, a relay, a cap,
a
fan control center or temp overload that failed and repair as
needed...and
can do it normally in less time than you have spent thus far, trying to
save
$40.
We both know it is not $40 not even close, especially here in NJ. But it's
more than just money of course, I truly enjoy doing things on my own, it's
hard the first time around, but the more you do the easier it becomes (and
the more you save).

Umm....lets see...$40 labor on an easy to get at motor? Yea..I can see it,
and thats why I said it. However, in NJ, no....LOL..I cant.



I do appreciate your responses and information you provided. I do intend
to
follow your advice, I will probably go with a local electrical supply
store
like Grainger mentioned in another response and make sure they
cross-reference my motor. Then I will run it by a local HVAC professional
to
double check that I am getting the right unit. Then I will try to install
it
on my own and if after all the preparation and research I get
electricuted,
I guess I do not deserve a better lot :-)

One word of warning....if you DO use Grainger...(shudder) do NOT get a
Dayton motor....AOSmith or GE. Grainger is not the cheapest place to get
one, and the Grainger here will NOT sell to a homeowner. Just be prepared.


Thanks a lot for your help.

"D O G" wrote in message
.net...
We read about a few that die by electrocution as well doing this stuff..
That could happen while changing a bulb.

It COULD, but you and I both know, most people have changed a light bulb
more than once...not so with a blower motor.



HVAC is the only trade that is regulated at the local, State and Federal
level. Granted, you are replacing a motor.....but, replacement with a
larger
HP, or the wrong speed, and you have issues you didnt have before.
Then, where are you at?
I am clueless as I said before, but I am not stupid. If I am not sure I do
not do it. I am researching, reading, asking questions, learning etc.
That's
why I asked the question to this newsgroup and now thanks to you btw :-) I
know that I should get same HP, RPM, Speeds etc as the original.

NP...if you are going to do it, simply be careful, dont make stupid
mistakes...

No...its not that simple...what speed was the old motor set at? For
cool?
For heat? Low, Med Low, MedHigh, or high?
Did it have 6 or 7 wires off it? What if the new one has one more, or
one
less? You know, some do NOT come with wiring directions. Shaft size?
Shaft
length?
It has 6 wires, 2 for the capacitor and the rest for four different
speeds.
When I disconnected the motor I made sure to write down which wire
represented what speed and where on the board it was connected. When I am
getting a new motor, I'll make sure that the number of wires are the same
and that it comes with instructions. I'll certainly make sure the shaft
dimensions are the same as well.

6 wires? 4 speeds....hummmm.....can be done...but what you just described,
is a 3 speed motor....

One wire for common, 3 for speeds, and 2 for the cap....
if you had ONE for the cap, with the cap being fed off a hot....I can see
it...


Well...you can try your local HVAC supply center, but, most legitimate
ones
do not sell to a homeowner, and will charge you prob more for the motor
than
your tech will.
A tech, again, can tell you if it was indeed the motor, a relay, a cap,
a
fan control center or temp overload that failed and repair as
needed...and
can do it normally in less time than you have spent thus far, trying to
save
$40.
We both know it is not $40 not even close, especially here in NJ. But it's
more than just money of course, I truly enjoy doing things on my own, it's
hard the first time around, but the more you do the easier it becomes (and
the more you save).

Umm....lets see...$40 labor on an easy to get at motor? Yea..I can see it,
and thats why I said it. However, in NJ, no....LOL..I cant.



I do appreciate your responses and information you provided. I do intend
to
follow your advice, I will probably go with a local electrical supply
store
like Grainger mentioned in another response and make sure they
cross-reference my motor. Then I will run it by a local HVAC professional
to
double check that I am getting the right unit. Then I will try to install
it
on my own and if after all the preparation and research I get
electricuted,
I guess I do not deserve a better lot :-)

One word of warning....if you DO use Grainger...(shudder) do NOT get a
Dayton motor....AOSmith or GE. Grainger is not the cheapest place to get
one, and the Grainger here will NOT sell to a homeowner. Just be prepared.


Thanks a lot for your help.

"D O G" wrote in message
.net...
6 wires? 4 speeds....hummmm.....can be done...but what you just
described,
is a 3 speed motor....

One wire for common, 3 for speeds, and 2 for the cap....
if you had ONE for the cap, with the cap being fed off a hot....I can
see
it...
You are right, there is a 7th wire for common, I just did not count it.
Then
2 wires for the cap and 4 wires for speed.

One word of warning....if you DO use Grainger...(shudder) do NOT get a
Dayton motor....AOSmith or GE. Grainger is not the cheapest place to get
one, and the Grainger here will NOT sell to a homeowner. Just be
prepared.
The original was a GE motor, so I'll try to stick with GE if possible

Better have a large balance in your checkbook if you're going to get a GE
motor. The people that will sell to HO's charge a lot more for GE's IF you
can find them.

"D O G" wrote in message
.net...
6 wires? 4 speeds....hummmm.....can be done...but what you just
described,
is a 3 speed motor....

One wire for common, 3 for speeds, and 2 for the cap....
if you had ONE for the cap, with the cap being fed off a hot....I can
see
it...
You are right, there is a 7th wire for common, I just did not count it.
Then
2 wires for the cap and 4 wires for speed.

One word of warning....if you DO use Grainger...(shudder) do NOT get a
Dayton motor....AOSmith or GE. Grainger is not the cheapest place to get
one, and the Grainger here will NOT sell to a homeowner. Just be
prepared.
The original was a GE motor, so I'll try to stick with GE if possible

Better have a large balance in your checkbook if you're going to get a GE
motor. The people that will sell to HO's charge a lot more for GE's IF you
can find them.

"D O G" wrote in message
.net...
"HeatMan" wrote in message
...
Get a *competent*, licensed, professionally trained, HVAC technician to
get
the problem diagnosed and corrected properly. It will save you money
in
the long run.

I had a customer that wanted to do it himself. He burned his brand new
motor and still had to pay me to come out and install a new motor

There may have been 20 people on that day who wanted to do it themselves.
One failed, and became your customer. The other 19 succeeded, but you'll
never know about their success cause they had no reason to call you for
help. What I am trying to say is that being an HVAC pro, you only deal
with
those who failed, you have no idea how many do get the job done
successfully
:-)


Not many try it themselves. The ones that do and suceed I have to
congratulate. A tech can waltz in, pull the blower, remove the motor, clean
the cage, reinstall a new, properly sized motor and cap, re-install the
blower, and write the bill up in less than an hour in 90% of the cases.

You, on the other hand may waste a day or more finding the motor, going back
and getting the capicator, figureing out how to remove the blower, knocking
off a wheel weight off the wheel, re-install the possibly incorrect motor,
re-install the blower, pull the motor to figure out where the cap goes,
re-re-install the blower, wonder why the $%^%$ the thing vibrates, remeber
about the wheel weight, spend another day plus trying to replace the weight
at the correct place, finally giving up and looking for a new wheel,
etc.etc. What's your time worth?

And indeed, people fix their houses, roofs, floors, cars, appliances,
electronics etc, why not HVAC.

And many people mess things up, too. I charge more to fix something the HO
tried first. Why? I have to figure out what the origonal problem was
first.

Some of the jobs I would not risk and would
indeed leave to professionals, but replacing a motor does seem quite
doable
to me. I already took it out, all I have to do is buy a new one and put it
back in.

Good Luck.

"D O G" wrote in message
.net...
"HeatMan" wrote in message
...
Get a *competent*, licensed, professionally trained, HVAC technician to
get
the problem diagnosed and corrected properly. It will save you money
in
the long run.

I had a customer that wanted to do it himself. He burned his brand new
motor and still had to pay me to come out and install a new motor

There may have been 20 people on that day who wanted to do it themselves.
One failed, and became your customer. The other 19 succeeded, but you'll
never know about their success cause they had no reason to call you for
help. What I am trying to say is that being an HVAC pro, you only deal
with
those who failed, you have no idea how many do get the job done
successfully
:-)


Not many try it themselves. The ones that do and suceed I have to
congratulate. A tech can waltz in, pull the blower, remove the motor, clean
the cage, reinstall a new, properly sized motor and cap, re-install the
blower, and write the bill up in less than an hour in 90% of the cases.

You, on the other hand may waste a day or more finding the motor, going back
and getting the capicator, figureing out how to remove the blower, knocking
off a wheel weight off the wheel, re-install the possibly incorrect motor,
re-install the blower, pull the motor to figure out where the cap goes,
re-re-install the blower, wonder why the $%^%$ the thing vibrates, remeber
about the wheel weight, spend another day plus trying to replace the weight
at the correct place, finally giving up and looking for a new wheel,
etc.etc. What's your time worth?

And indeed, people fix their houses, roofs, floors, cars, appliances,
electronics etc, why not HVAC.

And many people mess things up, too. I charge more to fix something the HO
tried first. Why? I have to figure out what the origonal problem was
first.

Some of the jobs I would not risk and would
indeed leave to professionals, but replacing a motor does seem quite
doable
to me. I already took it out, all I have to do is buy a new one and put it
back in.

Good Luck.

Better have a large balance in your checkbook if you're going to get a GE
motor. The people that will sell to HO's charge a lot more for GE's IF
you
can find them.

What I find quite interesting is that you and quite a few other people
alluded to the fact that I would get a better deal on the motor then if I
buy it myselft. Do not get me wrong, it may well be but it goes totally
contrary to my experience with contractors/repairs in any other area.

I have no doubts, that the contractor himself, buying wholesale will get a
better deal on the motor (or anything else for that matter) then I ever
could, but I do not have any reason to believe that he will pass the savings
on to me. Just like everyone else he is in business to make a profit, he
knows wholesale prices, he knows retail prices, he knows that HO in most
cases have no idea about prices, but that he (HO), his wife, kids and dog
are awfully hot without A/C. If this is not a perfect chance to overcharge,
I do not know what is.

I just took my car to a dealer, was quoted list price for parts and 8 hours
of labor. Went to an independent mechanic and got list prices for parts and
5 hours of labors. Bought absolutely the same parts (OEM, new) on the
internet and paid about 40% of the list price.

And generally speaking you guys draw a very rosy picture of working with
pros. They show up on time, fix it, charge for 1 hour of labor and below
retail price for parts, do a perfect job and send you a christmas card.

How about an unfortunately more typical schenario - they schedule an
appointment any time during the day and you have to be home all day to wait
for them. They do not show up. When they eventually do show up a few days
later having you wasted one more day, you are totally at their mercy. You
already owe them money cause they charge $75 just to show up. They take 2
hours to diagnoze, then they claim that 5 parts need to be replaced. They
also claim that the parts are very hard to get to, so the labor cost will be
high. They also quote you the price of parts twice as high as what it should
be. On top of it they say that they do not have the parts in stock and they
would have to come back some other day.

You of course have no way of knowing whether they are being honest. What you
do know is that if you do not accept their terms, they will charge you for 2
hours of labor and leave you with a mess. You would have to start all over
with another contractor and chances are quite good that other contractor
will not be any better then the first one.

When it is finally done, they leave you with a $600 bill, the motor is noisy
and vibrating and they would not come out and fix it unless you pay for the
labor again.

Obviously this is not personal and has nothing to do with HVAC people per
se, the whole scenario is unfortunately way too common in any field - be it
car repair, construction, remodelling or anything else. Even doctors and
lawyers do it all the time to their customers. And the advice of getting
good references/word of mouth etc is as old as it's often useless.

Better have a large balance in your checkbook if you're going to get a GE
motor. The people that will sell to HO's charge a lot more for GE's IF
you
can find them.

What I find quite interesting is that you and quite a few other people
alluded to the fact that I would get a better deal on the motor then if I
buy it myselft. Do not get me wrong, it may well be but it goes totally
contrary to my experience with contractors/repairs in any other area.

I have no doubts, that the contractor himself, buying wholesale will get a
better deal on the motor (or anything else for that matter) then I ever
could, but I do not have any reason to believe that he will pass the savings
on to me. Just like everyone else he is in business to make a profit, he
knows wholesale prices, he knows retail prices, he knows that HO in most
cases have no idea about prices, but that he (HO), his wife, kids and dog
are awfully hot without A/C. If this is not a perfect chance to overcharge,
I do not know what is.

I just took my car to a dealer, was quoted list price for parts and 8 hours
of labor. Went to an independent mechanic and got list prices for parts and
5 hours of labors. Bought absolutely the same parts (OEM, new) on the
internet and paid about 40% of the list price.

And generally speaking you guys draw a very rosy picture of working with
pros. They show up on time, fix it, charge for 1 hour of labor and below
retail price for parts, do a perfect job and send you a christmas card.

How about an unfortunately more typical schenario - they schedule an
appointment any time during the day and you have to be home all day to wait
for them. They do not show up. When they eventually do show up a few days
later having you wasted one more day, you are totally at their mercy. You
already owe them money cause they charge $75 just to show up. They take 2
hours to diagnoze, then they claim that 5 parts need to be replaced. They
also claim that the parts are very hard to get to, so the labor cost will be
high. They also quote you the price of parts twice as high as what it should
be. On top of it they say that they do not have the parts in stock and they
would have to come back some other day.

You of course have no way of knowing whether they are being honest. What you
do know is that if you do not accept their terms, they will charge you for 2
hours of labor and leave you with a mess. You would have to start all over
with another contractor and chances are quite good that other contractor
will not be any better then the first one.

When it is finally done, they leave you with a $600 bill, the motor is noisy
and vibrating and they would not come out and fix it unless you pay for the
labor again.

Obviously this is not personal and has nothing to do with HVAC people per
se, the whole scenario is unfortunately way too common in any field - be it
car repair, construction, remodelling or anything else. Even doctors and
lawyers do it all the time to their customers. And the advice of getting
good references/word of mouth etc is as old as it's often useless.

"D O G" wrote in message:
I am fairly clueless about it, please forgive me if my questions are
completely stupid.

rest snipped


I replaced the blower motor on my unit last week. A few tips:
#1 - Have a service tech come out and trouble-shoot the unit. It was well
worth the $65 for him to do so.

I have been in the mechanical contracting business (plbg & hvac) for over 30
years. All the systems I've installed were new commercial units. I was
never in the hvac service business. The tech's info was invaluable (as it
could have been a relay, capacitor, etc.)

I killed the power to the unit, checked for assurance with a volt meter, and
removed the entire squirrel cage assembly. I removed the motor, and
replaced it with a Baldor motor. I completely cleaned the cage and assembly
and allowed it to dry while I went back into the attic, cleaned both my
drains, coil, and compartment area. I reassembled everything, connected the
wiring as to the diagram furnished with the motor regarding RPM, etc. The
unit tested out just fine and is operating normally. I also installed a new
programmable thermostat.

The advice you were given was good advice, DOG. I'm not saying (as is
anyone else) that you *can't* do it, but some background experience is a
dangerous thing. A *lot* of experience is even better. If you proceed,
then by all means recruit the help of a professional.

Best of luck to you can be careful.

Jim

"D O G" wrote in message:
I am fairly clueless about it, please forgive me if my questions are
completely stupid.

rest snipped


I replaced the blower motor on my unit last week. A few tips:
#1 - Have a service tech come out and trouble-shoot the unit. It was well
worth the $65 for him to do so.

I have been in the mechanical contracting business (plbg & hvac) for over 30
years. All the systems I've installed were new commercial units. I was
never in the hvac service business. The tech's info was invaluable (as it
could have been a relay, capacitor, etc.)

I killed the power to the unit, checked for assurance with a volt meter, and
removed the entire squirrel cage assembly. I removed the motor, and
replaced it with a Baldor motor. I completely cleaned the cage and assembly
and allowed it to dry while I went back into the attic, cleaned both my
drains, coil, and compartment area. I reassembled everything, connected the
wiring as to the diagram furnished with the motor regarding RPM, etc. The
unit tested out just fine and is operating normally. I also installed a new
programmable thermostat.

The advice you were given was good advice, DOG. I'm not saying (as is
anyone else) that you *can't* do it, but some background experience is a
dangerous thing. A *lot* of experience is even better. If you proceed,
then by all means recruit the help of a professional.

Best of luck to you can be careful.

Jim

"D O G" wrote in message
.net...
Better have a large balance in your checkbook if you're going to get a
GE
motor. The people that will sell to HO's charge a lot more for GE's IF
you
can find them.

What I find quite interesting is that you and quite a few other people
alluded to the fact that I would get a better deal on the motor then if I
buy it myselft. Do not get me wrong, it may well be but it goes totally
contrary to my experience with contractors/repairs in any other area.

Thats New Jorsey fer yaz.....LOL



I have no doubts, that the contractor himself, buying wholesale will get a
better deal on the motor (or anything else for that matter) then I ever
could, but I do not have any reason to believe that he will pass the
savings
on to me.

Happens all the time.
Unless of course, you use Chris up in NY...now..hes illegal, so he has to
sell you the motor for what he paid for it, or he becomes a contractor..and
can get busted.


Just like everyone else he is in business to make a profit, he
knows wholesale prices, he knows retail prices, he knows that HO in most
cases have no idea about prices, but that he (HO), his wife, kids and dog
are awfully hot without A/C. If this is not a perfect chance to
overcharge,
I do not know what is.

Ah...but most of my customers DO have an idea about what parts
cost....retail. When they get a quote and the entire quote is under what
they expected to pay...then something amazing happens.....they suddenly
realize how bad the trade was getting.
My electrician called the other day...needed a pool pump motor. He could not
find one for under $200 for the particular model he had.
2 phone calls, and I had one for $90. His customer was getting prices of
over $225 for the motor, and when Ray installed the motor for $160, everyone
was happy..


I just took my car to a dealer, was quoted list price for parts and 8
hours
of labor. Went to an independent mechanic and got list prices for parts
and
5 hours of labors. Bought absolutely the same parts (OEM, new) on the
internet and paid about 40% of the list price.

Well...this is a no brainer...really.
Your independent guy MIGHT be as good (assuming your dealer is up to date
and really cares..I know...rare) as the dealer.
The dealerships make most of their profit in the parts and service
department...(percentage wise) and the idea is that you have a factory
trained tech that knows your car better than the guy down the street. Thats
the logic in the higher prices.....per hour anyway.
Truth is simple....your local independent surely has less overhead, and does
not need to charge as much per hour to remain open and in biz. Having been
in the automotive industry (even today in a small way) all my life, thats
the cold hard facts there. Most independents I know are pretty good. There
are good and bad in all trades...every one...its what you feel comfortable
with.


And generally speaking you guys draw a very rosy picture of working with
pros. They show up on time, fix it, charge for 1 hour of labor and below
retail price for parts, do a perfect job and send you a christmas card.

Some do...we do....the one hour labor thing...depends.
Keep in mind...if that was a VS motor, it would be an EASY $500 to replace,
and the markup would be about the same at THAT price if it was $200 for a
standard replacement. Some are very expensive.


How about an unfortunately more typical schenario - they schedule an
appointment any time during the day and you have to be home all day to
wait
for them. They do not show up. When they eventually do show up a few days
later having you wasted one more day, you are totally at their mercy. You
already owe them money cause they charge $75 just to show up. They take 2
hours to diagnoze, then they claim that 5 parts need to be replaced. They
also claim that the parts are very hard to get to, so the labor cost will
be
high. They also quote you the price of parts twice as high as what it
should
be. On top of it they say that they do not have the parts in stock and
they
would have to come back some other day.

No call? No work. Period. If a service comapany is not there, there are
others you can call.
Some do not charge service or truck fees....sometimes it takes 2 ormore
hours to locate the problem correctly. There are times, when there is a
problem that you MUST be 100% sure that all the bases are covered, or else
you will be back again in short order. Sometimes, 5 parts DO need to be
replaced...that Variable speed motor I was talking about.....motor goes, you
might need a controller too....and thats not cheap either...its not always
the tech trying to make a buck...its the way things are done...in the unit,
that require such a pain in the ass troubleshooting techneque and parts.


You of course have no way of knowing whether they are being honest. What
you
do know is that if you do not accept their terms, they will charge you for
2
hours of labor and leave you with a mess.

3 words..

State Licence Board.


You would have to start all over
with another contractor and chances are quite good that other contractor
will not be any better then the first one.

True, and this is why you are starting to see a huge swing of self policing
in the trades.


When it is finally done, they leave you with a $600 bill, the motor is
noisy
and vibrating and they would not come out and fix it unless you pay for
the
labor again.


Umm...3 words...

State Licencing Board.


Obviously this is not personal and has nothing to do with HVAC people per
se, the whole scenario is unfortunately way too common in any field - be
it
car repair, construction, remodelling or anything else. Even doctors and
lawyers do it all the time to their customers. And the advice of getting
good references/word of mouth etc is as old as it's often useless.


Of course not...and you know..there are times when as a contractor, you
wonder why you cant prescreen customers from time to time too...

"D O G" wrote in message
.net...
Better have a large balance in your checkbook if you're going to get a
GE
motor. The people that will sell to HO's charge a lot more for GE's IF
you
can find them.

What I find quite interesting is that you and quite a few other people
alluded to the fact that I would get a better deal on the motor then if I
buy it myselft. Do not get me wrong, it may well be but it goes totally
contrary to my experience with contractors/repairs in any other area.

Thats New Jorsey fer yaz.....LOL



I have no doubts, that the contractor himself, buying wholesale will get a
better deal on the motor (or anything else for that matter) then I ever
could, but I do not have any reason to believe that he will pass the
savings
on to me.

Happens all the time.
Unless of course, you use Chris up in NY...now..hes illegal, so he has to
sell you the motor for what he paid for it, or he becomes a contractor..and
can get busted.


Just like everyone else he is in business to make a profit, he
knows wholesale prices, he knows retail prices, he knows that HO in most
cases have no idea about prices, but that he (HO), his wife, kids and dog
are awfully hot without A/C. If this is not a perfect chance to
overcharge,
I do not know what is.

Ah...but most of my customers DO have an idea about what parts
cost....retail. When they get a quote and the entire quote is under what
they expected to pay...then something amazing happens.....they suddenly
realize how bad the trade was getting.
My electrician called the other day...needed a pool pump motor. He could not
find one for under $200 for the particular model he had.
2 phone calls, and I had one for $90. His customer was getting prices of
over $225 for the motor, and when Ray installed the motor for $160, everyone
was happy..


I just took my car to a dealer, was quoted list price for parts and 8
hours
of labor. Went to an independent mechanic and got list prices for parts
and
5 hours of labors. Bought absolutely the same parts (OEM, new) on the
internet and paid about 40% of the list price.

Well...this is a no brainer...really.
Your independent guy MIGHT be as good (assuming your dealer is up to date
and really cares..I know...rare) as the dealer.
The dealerships make most of their profit in the parts and service
department...(percentage wise) and the idea is that you have a factory
trained tech that knows your car better than the guy down the street. Thats
the logic in the higher prices.....per hour anyway.
Truth is simple....your local independent surely has less overhead, and does
not need to charge as much per hour to remain open and in biz. Having been
in the automotive industry (even today in a small way) all my life, thats
the cold hard facts there. Most independents I know are pretty good. There
are good and bad in all trades...every one...its what you feel comfortable
with.


And generally speaking you guys draw a very rosy picture of working with
pros. They show up on time, fix it, charge for 1 hour of labor and below
retail price for parts, do a perfect job and send you a christmas card.

Some do...we do....the one hour labor thing...depends.
Keep in mind...if that was a VS motor, it would be an EASY $500 to replace,
and the markup would be about the same at THAT price if it was $200 for a
standard replacement. Some are very expensive.


How about an unfortunately more typical schenario - they schedule an
appointment any time during the day and you have to be home all day to
wait
for them. They do not show up. When they eventually do show up a few days
later having you wasted one more day, you are totally at their mercy. You
already owe them money cause they charge $75 just to show up. They take 2
hours to diagnoze, then they claim that 5 parts need to be replaced. They
also claim that the parts are very hard to get to, so the labor cost will
be
high. They also quote you the price of parts twice as high as what it
should
be. On top of it they say that they do not have the parts in stock and
they
would have to come back some other day.

No call? No work. Period. If a service comapany is not there, there are
others you can call.
Some do not charge service or truck fees....sometimes it takes 2 ormore
hours to locate the problem correctly. There are times, when there is a
problem that you MUST be 100% sure that all the bases are covered, or else
you will be back again in short order. Sometimes, 5 parts DO need to be
replaced...that Variable speed motor I was talking about.....motor goes, you
might need a controller too....and thats not cheap either...its not always
the tech trying to make a buck...its the way things are done...in the unit,
that require such a pain in the ass troubleshooting techneque and parts.


You of course have no way of knowing whether they are being honest. What
you
do know is that if you do not accept their terms, they will charge you for
2
hours of labor and leave you with a mess.

3 words..

State Licence Board.


You would have to start all over
with another contractor and chances are quite good that other contractor
will not be any better then the first one.

True, and this is why you are starting to see a huge swing of self policing
in the trades.


When it is finally done, they leave you with a $600 bill, the motor is
noisy
and vibrating and they would not come out and fix it unless you pay for
the
labor again.


Umm...3 words...

State Licencing Board.


Obviously this is not personal and has nothing to do with HVAC people per
se, the whole scenario is unfortunately way too common in any field - be
it
car repair, construction, remodelling or anything else. Even doctors and
lawyers do it all the time to their customers. And the advice of getting
good references/word of mouth etc is as old as it's often useless.


Of course not...and you know..there are times when as a contractor, you
wonder why you cant prescreen customers from time to time too...

"I-zheet M'drurz" wrote in message
...
On 18 Aug 2003, D O G wrote:

As much as it pains me to agree with CBHvac (trust me, we have
some "history") I do 100% in this situation.

--
TP

Tommy, would you please give CBHvac a nice hug and kiss?

You two look cute together...

"I-zheet M'drurz" wrote in message
...
On 18 Aug 2003, D O G wrote:

As much as it pains me to agree with CBHvac (trust me, we have
some "history") I do 100% in this situation.

--
TP

Tommy, would you please give CBHvac a nice hug and kiss?

You two look cute together...

CBHvac Spilled my beer when they jumped on the table and proclaimed
in :


"Oscar_lives" wrote in message
news:rAy0b.201306$o%2.92925@sccrnsc02...
Tommy, would you please give CBHvac a nice hug and kiss?

You two look cute together...


I think you havea different version of cute...
you know whats gonna happen if he hugs me, and God help if his lips
pucker up..

Oh no.

NOI

---
"Stand far back, and get the plastic sheeting out! Gonna be messy!
G"

CBHvac Spilled my beer when they jumped on the table and proclaimed
in :


"Oscar_lives" wrote in message
news:rAy0b.201306$o%2.92925@sccrnsc02...
Tommy, would you please give CBHvac a nice hug and kiss?

You two look cute together...


I think you havea different version of cute...
you know whats gonna happen if he hugs me, and God help if his lips
pucker up..

Oh no.

NOI

---
"Stand far back, and get the plastic sheeting out! Gonna be messy!
G"

"Oscar_lives" wrote in message
news:rAy0b.201306$o%2.92925@sccrnsc02...

"I-zheet M'drurz" wrote in message
...
On 18 Aug 2003, D O G wrote:

As much as it pains me to agree with CBHvac (trust me, we have
some "history") I do 100% in this situation.

--
TP

Tommy, would you please give CBHvac a nice hug and kiss?

You two look cute together...


I think you havea different version of cute...
you know whats gonna happen if he hugs me, and God help if his lips pucker
up..